The TMNT Tournament Fighters (SNES) Thread: TF Revelations

Zee Tee BeeZee Tee Bee Br0k3яZ RevancheJoined: Posts: 1,008
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What is “TF”?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tournament_Fighters

TMNT:TF or simply “TF” is more commonly used within the fighting game community to refer to the Super Nintendo (SNES) version, which is considered to be the “superior” of the three (NES/GENESIS). As specified in the thread title, the SNES version is generally the main focus here, although brief mention of the NES and Genesis/MegaDrive versions does pop up occasionally.

People play this competitively?!

Indeed! Fighting game enthusiasts tend to give pretty much any game a chance and are willing to invest time into the games they enjoy, breaking apart the intricacies of the engine and game mechanics as well as developing on the evolution of character matchups.

The areas where competitive play seems most consistent are within Venezuela and parts of New York City. Both scenes have relatively smalls groups but also have strong, hardcore players who have established a vast understanding of the gameplay and character match ups.

Although rare, TF does manage to get some competitive play (usually as a side event) at the larger major tournaments. Players can sometimes be seen mashing away on SNES “dog bones” (whenever available) or more commonly, settling for emulated play wherein players attach their own preferred peripherals for optimal performance (Yes, it’s that serious). For the most part, it’s usually for the nostalgic value.

Where can I view high-level gameplay?

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2F5BBFFE1D620C49&feature=plpp
(Playlist compiled by ThatSoleGuy)

Is it a hard game to get into?

Definitely not. Being a product of the “SF clone wars” of the 90’s TF, like many other fighting games around that time, plays very similar to Street Fighter II in many respects. Much of the game play focuses heavily on elementary spacing and footsies. Because roughly 7/10ths of the cast possesses a projectile in some form, more often than not players will battle to gain momentum and positional advantage by means of fireball wars. The characters with “weaker” projectiles tend to have to rely on good reads, closing distance and holding position with stronger normals/pokes. In matches where fireballs aren’t as relevant, the footsie game becomes more pronounced.

Combos in TF are far from demanding with bread & butter combos averaging 3-5 hits. Far less time will be needed to actually practice combos/B&B’s and more focus being placed on learning character match ups, counter situations, advantageous situations, and building up reaction speed.

The button layout for TF is also very convenient as there are only two punches and two kicks to worry about (that’s two less than SF!). “Sure-kill Techniques” or Special Moves are none out of the ordinary and assuming you’ve played at least one (traditional) fighting game at least semi-seriously, commands like QCF/236, DP/623 or charge b, f, should be very familiar. “Ultimate Arts” or Super Moves require even less effort as you just simply input Heavy Punch+Heavy Kick with full meter.

I’m kind of ass at “old school” fighters. Any tutorial or combo videos to point me in the right direction?

http://www.twitch.tv/dirtyberet/b/322046170 [Basic Game Engine & Mechanics Overview @ ~9minutes]

http://www.twitch.tv/dirtyberet/b/322047908 [Character Breakdowns & Basic Strategies @ ~6minutes]



















This game is too poverty to have tiers, right? …Right?

Tiers are what you make of them (I guess *shrug*). The majority of the community, however, seems to agree on the “strongest” characters being Armaggon and Raph while the “weakest” is without a doubt War. People have also argued that C.Shredder, Wingnut, and Mike are also potentially “very strong” characters. Very little data has been comprised to support these arguments though (I.e. no demonstrative play and/or speculation from “inactive players”)

There’s no one I can play locally. Is there netplay available?
Hell yeah!

Setting up Hamachi in conjunction with ZSNES built-in netplay

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-tmnt-tournament-fighters-snes-thread-tf-revelations.16846/page-18#post-7234535
(by Veserius)

(MORE INFO)

Ok, I just found out that this game is as broken as an antique doll in the hands of a toddler. How do I deal with all the “cheap stuff”?

Simple answer: Deal with it.

Less douchebaggy answer: Browse through the thread and see what info you can find on matchups and countering seemingly-impossible-to-deal-with situations. Players from all over have compiled data of all kinds and reported their findings to the community. There’s a good chance you’ll find an answer to what you’re looking for. More importantly: KEEP PLAYING AND TRYING NEW/DUMB THINGS. You may see the phrase thrown around a lot on this thread (usually by myself): “TF IS ALWAYS EVOLVING”. This is because it’s 100% true. While TF is old, it doesn’t have a huge following and new info and discoveries don’t pop up often as a result. As people tend to play more and against a variety of players, ideologies of matchups and optimal play will shift and take on new forms before becoming something more concrete. Play and explore, nothing is truly “dumb” until proven otherwise a thousand times over (IMO).


“Regional differences”? Which is considered to be the better of the two?

USA, USA, USA!

But seriously though. Again, the game is not supported on a large enough scale to come to a conclusion on the matter. The community consensus though is the US title. The JP release has a few cosmetic changes as well as character tweaks that may or may not influence how the character is used.

Versions that exist are USA, Euro, German, and Australian versions which seem to be 100% exactly the same (don’t quote me though!) and the Japanese version (titled Mutant Warriors) which has changes that more or less apparent than the other international releases. While beta versions of TF exist, it’s not recommended for competitive play for obvious reasons.
"Regardless of what they knew and could do, the 360 d-pad undid them." - Book of Rioting Soul
**Team Grain of Salt** 7/11
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Comments

  • SabinSabin Arcana 2 on PS2 SUX Joined: Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Saiydddddddddddddddd

    Viva la TF revolution!!!!!!!

    yo...where the fuck is Kaneda at....lol, hell be angered when he sees this shit hahahahahahahahah
    SRK should stand for Stupid Retarded Kids.
    Originally Posted by Alidfe
    Arturo Sanchez won't be the best Dhalsim until he moves to Kyoto and changes his name to Kazuhiko Nitsuma.
  • archetypearchetype Cofey was here Joined: Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    thx good shit!!
    THE FIRM will fuck all you bitch ass marks, punk ass busters, and fake ass tricks up. WE DON'T FUCKING PLAY FOR FUN, WE PLAY FOR BLOOD.

    I am THE FIRM aka MONGO SLADE aka arch aka Jake Rockwell
  • JeRonJeRon The Dictatorship Joined: Posts: 968
    The revolution will never die! TF is the movement!
    I will win with skill! Quote dedicated to ChunLi Zhang, Strongest woman in the world!
  • Axel KellyAxel Kelly Joined: Posts: 1,477
    TF for EVO! :clap: Those videos are most excellent. :tup:
    I am going to dig this game out of my closet right now for some classic enjoyment :lovin:
    largemann.com
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I've been waiting for these TMNT match vids for...2-3 years now, and it was worth the wait. :tup:

    The last 15 seconds of the "Zar (AR) vs Sabin (RA)" match was crazy. Fear 1 pixel Raph, lol.

    I remember some other TMNT threads that came and gone that wasn't in the original link, guess they died off during the crash. Anyways, good shit.
  • felinekifelineki Joined: Posts: 981
    Dang, Raph's super does a buttload of chip damage.

    I had this game for my SNES, and I alwyays thought it was a pretty good fighter. Nice to see it's still getting some play. The videos were great!

    I had forgotten how different the turtles' voices are in the Japanese version.

    Oh, and Aska has a thong in the Japanese version, too. But she looks great either way. :P
    "The Hammer Bros. Suit was more broken than O. Sagat, AHVB, and CotA Magneto put together." -specs

    "I always thought that O. Sagat, AHVB, and CotA Magneto were just aspects of the Hammer Bros. Suit, broken down in several pieces in order to keep the universe from breaking." -Wellman
  • Sp00kySp00ky Joined: Posts: 1,061
    Now if we can get these jackasses all together in one place then i will encode some more tmnt vids and maybe some breakers revenge.
  • Clear SkyClear Sky Wolf Shirt Joined: Posts: 3,301
    Haha that's dope man. I remember reading Sabin's TF thread and I was wondering when the videos were going to come.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFQA-KTzaPA
    Jazzy NYC '99!
    Team Wack
    Avatar: thezombiehunters.com
  • Oni_RyuOni_Ryu Don't call it a come back Joined: Posts: 129
    Strange coincidence, I just recently dusted off my copy after 5-10 years.

    Odd thing though, the character voices seem to be different from mine. Any explanation for that?
    "The more you sweat, the less you bleed" -- SAL Boxing
  • Sp00kySp00ky Joined: Posts: 1,061
    They played on the jap version.
    Also note the background with the cheerleaders has an entire section thats not in the us one iirc.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Last I remember, Zsnes had online play...
  • SabinSabin Arcana 2 on PS2 SUX Joined: Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Jap/US versions have some slight gameplay differences BTW in addition to minor graphical changes/tweaks. I'll post up the list of some of the stuff that we found tomorrow.

    Glad to see everyone is enjoying our first batch though :D
    SRK should stand for Stupid Retarded Kids.
    Originally Posted by Alidfe
    Arturo Sanchez won't be the best Dhalsim until he moves to Kyoto and changes his name to Kazuhiko Nitsuma.
  • RidianFableRidianFable Meh Joined: Posts: 2,628
    Boooo! Wingnut is too cheesy lol.
    Hirayama. I'm a ronin.

    707-Mashf3st
    559-RidianFable
  • Master_ChibiMaster_Chibi .: Dynamites! :. Joined: Posts: 15,021 mod
    SAIYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYD

    Man, you going to make me get into this game too?

    Damn yo.

    :D
    ~*Hai! Back to Japan!
  • EverdredEverdred seriously casual Joined: Posts: 1,715 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    teach me how to play mike zar!
    IG kleofus_hagel
    Psn kleofus_hagel
  • JeRonJeRon The Dictatorship Joined: Posts: 968
    Sp00ky wrote:
    Now if we can get these jackasses all together in one place then i will encode some more tmnt vids and maybe some breakers revenge.


    Just let me know when! I dont mind putting in a day of TF for old times sake!
    THE MOVEMENT!!! :)

    I think we had weeklies at one point...pretty serious RR TF Tournament. One I remember was when Sanford won with Don and in that tournament fools were blindpicking all day rofl. Yes some matchups are pretty bad.
    btw Saiyd Chrome Dome was in the og cartoon series (season 5 episode 22) Planet of The Turteloids part 2. Yes I have every single episode lol.
    ChromeDome was built by Shredder and he is NOT the size he is in the game. Chrome Dome is over 20 feet tall and carries a gun.
    Get me on that game again my Mikes gonna hit that redizzy and thats game! ^.^
    TF Gogogogo
    I will win with skill! Quote dedicated to ChunLi Zhang, Strongest woman in the world!
  • SabinSabin Arcana 2 on PS2 SUX Joined: Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Well anyways heere are the differences that me and Sayid found from playing TF last weekend when we recorded the vids.

    Up until recently, we strayed away from playing the Japanese version because we did not like the voices and aestethic changes. But it turns out that the japanese version has minor tweaks, some which make the gameplay better, or not.

    I should also note, that with these videos, they were taken with the timer at 99 sec, and highspeed 1...highspeed 2 is too fast, normal is too slow. actually we should try and play on default timer (60 sec) sometimes and see ho wthat affects the matches.

    anyway, here are some of the changes i've noticed -

    - 2p color can be selected by pressing start. in the usa version, you could only select 2p color if 1p put cursor over the same character that you wanted to pick.

    - You can make the point totals after every match calculate quickly if you just mash buttons. in the usa version, you had no control over it.

    - obviously the voices are different (turtles have different voices..) i have no idea why, USA version is better imo in terms of voice acting. sounds a bit darker.

    - aska has a different winpose in the jap version where she spins and her does a chest bounce with her tits and shows some clevage. lol. its obvious why that was taken out in the usa version, but all of a sudden she has tits? lol she looks flatchested as fuck.

    - studio 6 has a whole other part of the stage that is NOT in USA version!! in the raph vs armagon match you can see the 2nd part of the stage that is not in the usa version. both sides have breakable walls, so the stage is 3x the size of the usa version...lol. i have no idea why that was taken out of the usa version. seems stupid lol.

    regarding gameplay differences, (theres probably more but we havent discovered them yet...)

    - aska in jap version has a 2 hit dp. it also has slightly faster recovery than the USA version so you can spam it more. however, the fact that it hits twice doesnt add any more stun to the move. and it fucks her over in a lot of scenarios. if you try to dp a poke from far away, like leo's standing fierce for example, you wont get knockdown because the 2nd hit has to connect. also it takes away her main bread and butter combo when they are WIDE open...which is close rh into dp. this is bad because that means you can only do jump fierce into dp when you get them stunned instead of the other combo.

    at first we thought it was better because of the recovery but i think its worse than us version. 1 hit knockdown is too much. she still has the highest priority uppercut in both versions though.

    - armagon flash kick also has a similar property. in jap version, a lot of times it doesnt knockdown unless it hits twice, at point blank range. in the raph vs armagon match you can see him do his flash kick move at point blank range and it doesnt knock me down. the move got toned down slightly because of that. which is good, cause that move is kinda bullshit anyway, almost to the point where its spammable lol. im glad that move got toned down. on the usa version, under that same circumstance, i woulda been knocked down by the dp and it woulda done like 30% and dizzied me sometimes. lol

    there is a glitch in this game where you can do chain combos, kinda like the cps1 glitch in the og sf2 games that allows you to link short -> fierce -> into whatever. it doesnt work with all characters though (for combos.) its very character dependent. for example chrome dome can do short x3 into low roundhouse doing this glitch. this alone moved him higher in the tier list.

    glitch is done in a combo for example, by pressing short , then short+fierce or roundhouse at the same time. kinda easy to do.

    but in the jap version, even with the glitch, c. domes combo i just listed doesnt work. i dont knwo about any others, sayid has to get back to me on which ones dont work

    -
    SRK should stand for Stupid Retarded Kids.
    Originally Posted by Alidfe
    Arturo Sanchez won't be the best Dhalsim until he moves to Kyoto and changes his name to Kazuhiko Nitsuma.
  • Master_ChibiMaster_Chibi .: Dynamites! :. Joined: Posts: 15,021 mod
    I wanna be in the club.

    :(
    ~*Hai! Back to Japan!
  • HuStLeMaN17HuStLeMaN17 #2O gArY pAyToN... tHa-GlOvE Joined: Posts: 1,300
    Thanks for the Vids!
    Love, Marvel vs Capcom 2 - Hate, Ultimate Tatsunoko vs Capcom 3

    UMVC3/TVC FOREVER AND ALWAYS TRASH TIER!!!!
  • SabinSabin Arcana 2 on PS2 SUX Joined: Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Chibi, I'm sure you can be down, it's not like we're going to shun anyone from playing this game lol.

    Jeron, you still have that roundrobin tape right? even tho the level of play is lower since its old, we should find a way to encode it. shit was mad serious lol. i hope you still have the matchup chart -_-
    SRK should stand for Stupid Retarded Kids.
    Originally Posted by Alidfe
    Arturo Sanchez won't be the best Dhalsim until he moves to Kyoto and changes his name to Kazuhiko Nitsuma.
  • Master_ChibiMaster_Chibi .: Dynamites! :. Joined: Posts: 15,021 mod
    So I take it I have to look around for the rom and just start practicing then?

    :O
    ~*Hai! Back to Japan!
  • EverdredEverdred seriously casual Joined: Posts: 1,715 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    So I take it I have to look around for the rom and just start practicing then?

    :O

    you also gotta bribe zar to come over to practice with free meal plan food.

    jeron that re dizzy with mike is so satisfying... makes me wanna quit 3s...heh j/k
    IG kleofus_hagel
    Psn kleofus_hagel
  • Master_ChibiMaster_Chibi .: Dynamites! :. Joined: Posts: 15,021 mod
    Saiyyyyyyyyyyyd~

    I HAVE P-E-N-N-I-E-E-E-E-E-S!

    :D!
    ~*Hai! Back to Japan!
  • The SwitcherThe Switcher FIGHT THA POWAH! Joined: Posts: 530
    Oh my god, this thread is my own personal Jeebus!

    "LIGHTNING CRUSHER!"

    "ENDLESS SCREW!"

    "DRAGON BREATH!"

    "POWER DRILL!!!!"

    Edit: Okay, I watched the matches. What are they being played on, a PAL version of the game or something? A rom? My SNES version has completely different voice samples for the turtles. Their a lot deeper, clearer, and has a different, more fierce-sounding tone altogether. The stuff in the matches was way more high-pitched. It was very jarring to me.
    A MONTAGE OF THE STUPIDEST MOMENTS FROM THE STREET FIGHTER USA CARTOON!!

  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    lol Art, remember my rushdown 5 minute Shredder? haha
  • CoosCoosCoosCoos Yep. Joined: Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I am so going to start playing this on zbattle again. Thanks for the heads up on this Zar.
    AE: Fei

    Marvel: Mag/Doom/Dante

    UNIEL: Waldstein
  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 640
    Oh my god, this thread is my own personal Jeebus!
    Edit: Okay, I watched the matches. What are they being played on, a PAL version of the game or something? A rom? My SNES version has completely different voice samples for the turtles. Their a lot deeper, clearer, and has a different, more fierce-sounding tone altogether. The stuff in the matches was way more high-pitched. It was very jarring to me.
    - obviously the voices are different (turtles have different voices..) i have no idea why, USA version is better imo in terms of voice acting. sounds a bit darker.

    There's your answer
  • Zee Tee BeeZee Tee Bee Br0k3яZ Revanche Joined: Posts: 1,008
    JeRon wrote:
    btw Saiyd Chrome Dome was in the og cartoon series (season 5 episode 22) Planet of The Turteloids part 2. Yes I have every single episode lol.
    ChromeDome was built by Shredder and he is NOT the size he is in the game. Chrome Dome is over 20 feet tall and carries a gun.

    Damn, guy :sweat: . your a turtles fiend (this guys loves crang!)

    so chrome is concidered to be a villian. 20ft and packing heat. :rofl:

    this one french site said w.nut is a hero/goodguy. said something about him teaming up w/ the tmnt to fight against shredder and attain a power crystal to get back to his home planet/demension.

    i'll research more on that later.

    anyway, thank for that info. any new interesting, misc. character bios u get, post up.

    JERONNNNNN.


    glad to see u guys are enjoying the vids. we're just getting started! we need jeron to complete the divine trinity.


    btw
    ppl please stop asking about the funny voices. we were playing JAP VERSION of tf.

    oh, and expect to see a tf wiki in the future with indepth strats, secrets, combos, etc. All the good stuff.

    ~get hyped!
    "Regardless of what they knew and could do, the 360 d-pad undid them." - Book of Rioting Soul
    **Team Grain of Salt** 7/11
  • The SwitcherThe Switcher FIGHT THA POWAH! Joined: Posts: 530
    Okay sorry, I didn't see the other person who mentioned it.

    Actually, the Aska/Raph vid had normal voice samples.
    A MONTAGE OF THE STUPIDEST MOMENTS FROM THE STREET FIGHTER USA CARTOON!!

  • elvis_a_presleyelvis_a_presley Losing since '91 Joined: Posts: 357
    Great game. I put some serious hours into this title and loved it.

    Shredder had fantastic rushdown. Wignut was definitely cheesy, but could be beaten easily if you got the timing tight. And nobody could beat my Mikey. He was an ANIMAL. Almost no wait time after his standard moves and an ultra-cheeese blanka roll. Not to mention his spaz-out super.

    "ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!"

    Damn I want to play this again. I wonder if I can get it added to the next OzHadou Nationals? :rofl:
  • SabinSabin Arcana 2 on PS2 SUX Joined: Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Great game. I put some serious hours into this title and loved it.
    Shredder had fantastic rushdown.

    Shredder is pretty good but he has counter matches against a lot of the cast.
    Wignut was definitely cheesy, but could be beaten easily if you got the timing tight.

    Care to explain why in detail? I'd love to have a high level discussion with someone else.
    And nobody could beat my Mikey. He was an ANIMAL. Almost no wait time after his standard moves and an ultra-cheeese blanka roll. Not to mention his spaz-out super.

    "ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!"

    Damn I want to play this again. I wonder if I can get it added to the next OzHadou Nationals? :rofl:

    haha no way, you can jump out of mikey's super cause it has startup. the ball is cheap though if you catch certain chars with it, cuz it redizzies lol.

    I'm too tired now, but we need to get some tier lists up for this game
    SRK should stand for Stupid Retarded Kids.
    Originally Posted by Alidfe
    Arturo Sanchez won't be the best Dhalsim until he moves to Kyoto and changes his name to Kazuhiko Nitsuma.
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    Ha ha pretty entertaining vids. Some comments about Raph:

    Abuse the torpedo more. Your opponent couldn't do anything about it at all. It builds a lot of meter as well. You can basically play Raph like a ghetto CE bison, do the torpedo then when you land either throw or do some low shorts into another torpedo. Good block damage, build your super meter.

    The chestbuster is pretty good at mid-range. I think there is a range where it is safe if blocked. It tends to hit people a lot at the leave the ground.

    Raph's projectiles have almost zero recovery, they can be abused a lot. In the corner just keep doing slow ones over and over again, along with some throws, low shorts, etc. You did some of that but you can do more.

    As far as tiers go...Aska is at the bottom, I know that much. "TABLE SALT! TABLE SALT!" Her uppercut is probably the best one in the game buy beyond that she's pretty awful.

    Raph, Shark-dude and Chrome-Dome are pretty high, Aska and War pretty low. (Althoug War isn't as bad as some people think, he's just kind of limited)

    Shredder is REALLY good if you don't know how to fight him, then he becomes just ok. Most people have a move that stop his rush cold, you just have to figure out what it is.

    The biggest problem with Turtles is that the controls are really sensitive as far as overlapping moves go, like if you hold back with Raph and want to do a fireball it can be really difficult to not get the torpedo instead.
  • BurningfistBurningfist The New Challenger Joined: Posts: 252 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    ....*tears of joy* I'll DEF have this game at my tournament, and I'll be planning a serious tournament for it next month if not sooner.
  • The SwitcherThe Switcher FIGHT THA POWAH! Joined: Posts: 530
    I'll throw in my thoughts.

    When the game originally came out, I actually took out WordPerfect on my old comp, and did a detailed faq/move list with strategies.

    For no reason!

    I didn't have the internet obviously, and none of my friends were into the game as much as I was.

    I always gravitated towards Mike and Raph as the stongest characters. I always liked Raph's UAM less then the others, I thought it always came off as super telegraphed. Mike had the best uppercut in the game to me, screw Aska. RISING THUNDER!

    Actually, I always thought Armaggon sucked. Mostly because I was so used to the AI's patterns with him, and they were pretty damn stupid. Jump Jump Jump Jump....GLIDE!!! Jump jump jump jump, GLIDE!!!

    Shredder always had a good game, but what really brought him down for me was his UAM. It was limited, and since Shredder worked really well long-distance, having a super where you must be close or mid-range kinda changed his game up. And since your opponent always KNEW when you had your own super, it was usually easily avoided. Plus Shredder's sweep was just vicious.

    I never got into Wingnut, but I remember the day I found out myself that his UAM was a 100% when placed directly overhead an opponent. I thought I had found a glitch at the time. I was so proud. lol

    While I think I played Don the least of the turtles, I always thought he was near the top due to his fierce punch, I remember beating the game by abusing that and his sweep. All his moves seemed to have slow start up, especially his UAM, but damn, it was cool-looking.

    I was always kinda jelous of the Genesis version, because it simply had Casey Jones, I dunno how he didn't make it into any version. And....oh yeah, Slash SO should have been a secret character.
    A MONTAGE OF THE STUPIDEST MOMENTS FROM THE STREET FIGHTER USA CARTOON!!

  • SabinSabin Arcana 2 on PS2 SUX Joined: Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    margalis wrote:
    Ha ha pretty entertaining vids. Some comments about Raph:

    Abuse the torpedo more. Your opponent couldn't do anything about it at all. It builds a lot of meter as well. You can basically play Raph like a ghetto CE bison, do the torpedo then when you land either throw or do some low shorts into another torpedo. Good block damage, build your super meter.

    You can't just abuse the torpedo randomly, there are like 19389089903839 ways to punish it. If the character has a DP, or a flashkick, they can punish it on Reaction. If they have a backdash (which is basically like, almost half the cast cause all turtles have it,) they can backdash out of the torpedo completely without taking any chip and punish me.

    Backdashes can be done on wakeup are are invincible to all attacks for the duration of the move (except throws.) Why do you think I was abusing it so much with raph?

    low shorts into torpedo is not genuine blockstun, there is a couple of frames where u can reversal, or u can mash on short with certain characters to get out of it (best way for w.nut to stop the blockstun.) it's good when they know its not coming tho but FAR from guaranteed. You talk as if on recovery I can just do it over and over, the move is broken but doesnt work that way.
    The chestbuster is pretty good at mid-range. I think there is a range where it is safe if blocked. It tends to hit people a lot at the leave the ground.

    No, you can punish it at any range. If they dont punish it's acuse they were not expecting at. At the very least, you get a guaranteed throw every time - its not safe to throw out at any range, but has high pirority.
    Raph's projectiles have almost zero recovery, they can be abused a lot. In the corner just keep doing slow ones over and over again, along with some throws, low shorts, etc. You did some of that but you can do more.

    3 of the 4 characters i played against have something to get out of that fireball trap.

    Leo is a turtle, so he can backdash. which screws up the trap's timing. if you try to throw after he has several points to DP. nothing is guaranteed. which is why I didn't go for it everytime.

    Vs Aska, I have a risk of getting DP's by her cause she has the highest priority DP in the game by far. Turtles > Aska though, and I can counter that just by staying at the max range of her slide so if i throw a fb, she has no choice but to take the chip/jump at up and get antiaired, or try to DP out, and get fierced in the face, which resets the trap since I can't immediately FB again.

    Armagon has his flashkick uppercut looking move which has invincibility as you can clearly when I get him in the corner and try to spam a fireball and get punished for it.

    W. Nut is the character that is the weakest against it due to no DP or reversal. But even he has something you can do if you fb spam at close range - all characters can press a button to trade with Raph to get out of the FB trap. If you walk back a bit to try to stop them from trading, then they can move out of the trap.

    I'm not saying you can't spam these moves, but there are some limitations to it and stuff that gets otu of the trap, I can't just spam those moves without thinking.
    As far as tiers go...Aska is at the bottom, I know that much. "TABLE SALT! TABLE SALT!" Her uppercut is probably the best one in the game buy beyond that she's pretty awful.
    Raph, Shark-dude and Chrome-Dome are pretty high, Aska and War pretty low. (Althoug War isn't as bad as some people think, he's just kind of limited)

    Agreed for the most part, but Aska and War are far from worthless, that's why I love this game, even low tiers have a chance. Aska sucks against anyone with a fireball, esp turtles, but if they dont have a fb the match becomes far more winnable. jump short is one of the buffest moves in the game, crosses up, instant overhead, (if they try to hit you when youre coming down, dp them in the face), if you attack on the way down, it's pretty much. Her buttsplash is good for rushdown and you can do it meaty for combos. Her slides are mad good and you can differentiate between the short slide and the rh slide for throw mixups/dp if you try to flinch. They have similar animations so its hard to tell.

    hell, her slide can even cross up a GROUNDED character that is knockded down in the corner. i forget the conditions for it thuogh, youll have to wait for Saiyd to post. It's similar to like certain 3s scenarios where y knock someone down and when they techroll you run through their body.

    her super is one of the best supers in the game and while she does it her sprite doest exist, you cant hit her. if she does it meaty in the corner she gets a guaranteed throw afterwards. shes not as bad as you think.

    War is bottom but he has a lot of things going for him, he has the highest stunning ability in the game, and very high poke priority so he always has a chance to turn around the match. he has the best throw game in TF too esepcially when knocked down - he gets a lot of free throws that other characters dont (and I'm actively tryign to mash on short to reverse it too.) We're still trying to figure out how the throw system works, might have to break it down frame by frame, beacuse a lot of times, i get thrown on knockdown and if I don't dp I get throws for free.

    I'd rather not talk theory fighter and instead just show you guys more vids, honestly.
    Shredder is REALLY good if you don't know how to fight him, then he becomes just ok. Most people have a move that stop his rush cold, you just have to figure out what it is.

    The biggest problem with Turtles is that the controls are really sensitive as far as overlapping moves go, like if you hold back with Raph and want to do a fireball it can be really difficult to not get the torpedo instead.


    agreed on all points, especially the Turtles one. That's why when I played this game, it was on a MAS stick! This is the first time I competively played the game on something other than a SNES pad. It was so much easier to not overlap moves. Saiyd used a saitek gamepad to play though.
    SRK should stand for Stupid Retarded Kids.
    Originally Posted by Alidfe
    Arturo Sanchez won't be the best Dhalsim until he moves to Kyoto and changes his name to Kazuhiko Nitsuma.
  • SabinSabin Arcana 2 on PS2 SUX Joined: Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    BTW Jae, I remember your 5 minute shredder, :lol: You were owning foos cause we didn't know the properties of his tigerknee lol
    SRK should stand for Stupid Retarded Kids.
    Originally Posted by Alidfe
    Arturo Sanchez won't be the best Dhalsim until he moves to Kyoto and changes his name to Kazuhiko Nitsuma.
  • CoosCoosCoosCoos Yep. Joined: Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Well, I've started playing Chrome Dome as of late. I know a lot of stuff, but here's some more that I'd like to know about:

    What are his best and worst matchups? What are some good ways to set up the unblockable midscreen? How much range does his EPD(electric pile driver) have, and what are some things that his grab can beat out? Is his super useful at all?

    Any answers to these will help a lot.
    AE: Fei

    Marvel: Mag/Doom/Dante

    UNIEL: Waldstein
  • Sp00kySp00ky Joined: Posts: 1,061
    Saitek aka spay-wok (or spay-wack since i love to give Saiyd shit about using it).
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    Sabin wrote:
    You can't just abuse the torpedo randomly, there are like 19389089903839 ways to punish it. If the character has a DP, or a flashkick, they can punish it on Reaction. If they have a backdash (which is basically like, almost half the cast cause all turtles have it,) they can backdash out of the torpedo completely without taking any chip and punish me.

    I'm just saying in your vids it was punished ONCE the entire time, and that was whne you landed and went for some move afterwards which was stuffed. Unless you want to count against Wingnut where he hit it from above a bunch of times.

    My point is not that it is a great move. (Although it is pretty good) My point is just if your opponent doesn't know how to deal with it you can abuse it and that looked to be true in this case.

    It's like Sirlin said in one of his random articles, you don't have to fight for real if you have some stupid ghetto tactic that your opponent doesn't know how to deal with.

    [clip chesbuster stuff]
    3 of the 4 characters i played against have something to get out of that fireball trap.

    Yeah, Wingnut is the only one you fought that you can really abuse it with. I imagine it works well on Chrome Dome and War as well.

    her super is one of the best supers in the game and while she does it her sprite doest exist, you cant hit her. if she does it meaty in the corner she gets a guaranteed throw afterwards. shes not as bad as you think.

    Somebody has to be at the bottom. War and Aska look like the bottom 2 to me. But yeah the balance overall is pretty good. War's fierce (or low fierce, I forget) is like the CVS2 Sagat low fierce of the game, just a big wall of meaty hitting.

    The only match I've found to be really frustrating is Chrome Dome vs. Mikey. Mikey's fireball comes out high enough that it can be really hard for Chrome Dome to clear it. If you can corner him and keep fireballing it gets REALLY difficult to get out of because the fireballs will tag you as you leave the ground.

    Now it may be that Chrome Dome can jump and do an immediate attack to lift his legs up a bit, I haven't tried enough to know.

    Yeah, post some more vids. This game is really good. It's basically HF with turtles and robots.
  • JeRonJeRon The Dictatorship Joined: Posts: 968
    Updated Tier List? I made one in the other TF thread a while back and it was somewhat updated but anyway it goes something like this

    Leonardo: Mid Tier
    Good Matchups (favorable) None
    Bad Matchups- Wignut

    Donatello: Upper Mid Tier
    Good Matchups- Armagon
    Bad Matchups- Wignut/ C. Shredder

    Raphael: Top Tier
    Good Matchups- All
    Bad Matchups- None

    Michaelangelo: Upper Mid Tier
    Good Matchups- Arma/ Crome Dome
    Bad Matchups- None

    Shredder: Mid Tier
    Good Matchups: Don/ Wignut/ War
    Bad Matchups- Aska/ C. Dome

    Crome Dome: Mid Tier
    Good Matchups: Shredhead
    Bad Matchups: Don/ Raph/ Mike

    Aska: Low Tier
    Good Matchups- Shredhead
    Bad Matchups- Raph/ Mike

    Wignut: Upper Mid
    Good Matchups- Aska/ Don/ Leo
    Bad Matchups- Shredder

    War: Low Tier
    Good Matchups- None
    Bad Matchups- Don/ Leo/ Raph/ Shredder

    Armageddon: Top Tier
    Good Matchups- All except Don
    Bad Matchups- Don

    Like Arturo mentioned earlier everyone can win in this game the low tiers arent bad like in most fighters. This is more or less 90% accurate... (I'll leave the remaning 10% between Art and Saiyd for debate hahaha) but this is off of the American version, from what Im hearing in differences in the Japanese version there are definete tier differentidies I guess once thats been fully tested the tier chart for that will be up.
    I will win with skill! Quote dedicated to ChunLi Zhang, Strongest woman in the world!
  • JeRonJeRon The Dictatorship Joined: Posts: 968
    Genesis Version TMNT TF Tiers! hahaahaha! The game was really bad and sadly me and Sanford played it hardcore for a time! :lol:


    April O'neil- GOD TIER- I have never seen a character like this in ANY fighting game, and I've pretty much played them all. She's speaks brokeness of all levels far beyond that of any normal playable charcter or boss combined.
    Elbow Attack has one frame and is incredibly fast you cannot block on reaction at all, its actually less than 1 frame. So basically she can spam all day because theres 0 recovery and theres nothing you can do about it. Why.. because it chipps when you block, there are no reversals or counters in the game to get you outta block stun and if you try to take the hit you get knocked down then she can grab you on wake up, grab (slam), grab, repeat until you die. She has other moves but you dont need them at all. There is literally NOTHING any character in that game can do to her and she is unarguradbly the most "broken" fighting game character in history.


    Everyone else (Turtles/ Sissiphus/Ray Fillet/ Casey Jones) They serve no purpose in the World of April!
    I will win with skill! Quote dedicated to ChunLi Zhang, Strongest woman in the world!
  • RushedDownRushedDown back in the usa Joined: Posts: 2,046
    u guys should have a zbattle tourney for this
    Home Depot Vagina TM
    Xanoz says the cure for the common Emil is Semi-Tight White Pie
    RIP Harold John Grinnell 8/29/53 - 8/29/09 you will be missed dad

    RushedSRK on psn and live
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    JeRon wrote:
    Updated Tier List? I made one in the other TF thread a while back and it was somewhat updated but anyway it goes something like this

    Looks like we agree for the most part. (Although you left Sharky off your list)

    Can you explain the following matchups a bit more. You don't have to go wild but a couple of sentences:


    Don vs. Shredder - is this really bad for Don? Seems like his standing fierce and head spin can stop Shredder rushes pretty well. What is Shredder's dominant plan here?

    Don vs. Armagon - How is this a good match for Don?
  • Zee Tee BeeZee Tee Bee Br0k3яZ Revanche Joined: Posts: 1,008
    margalis wrote:
    My point is not that it is a great move. (Although it is pretty good) My point is just if your opponent doesn't know how to deal with it you can abuse it and that looked to be true in this case.

    lol 'looked' is the keyword in this sentence. very few things get the privilage to be abused in this game. sabin knew what he was doing. its better he play it safe and use it sparingly rather than taking damage for trying to be cute.

    i guarantee after playing us for 5mins u'd have a different opinion about what you consisder to be 'abuseable'.

    TF continues to evolve! :looney:


    CoosCoos wrote:
    What are his best and worst matchups? What are some good ways to set up the unblockable midscreen? How much range does his EPD(electric pile driver) have, and what are some things that his grab can beat out? Is his super useful at all?

    W.Nut is by far his worst matchup. once wnut is out (full screen) he stays out. Chromes floaty jump wont allow him to outmaneuver wnut air fb, and doing dive kicks (jump straight up, dwn+hk) will get u nowhere. This match is all about walking forward and blocking...alot. look for any openings or attack patters (esp. jump patters) and punish w/ an early jp (angled) hk. try to keep him grounded whenever the opportunity comes along.

    the match tends to shift when u get him in the corner. keep him guessing between walk up EPD or jump away early hk. most wnut players would probably take the hk forcing u to work to get back in. and jumping foward w/ early hk will get u hurt or worse--he puts you in the corner :bluu:

    best match

    id have to agree w/ jeron: shredder (aka shredhead =/ )
    random aura crushes get punished on reaction w/ cr lk x3, cr hk (cps1 chain). oh look, a knockdown, yay. missed arua knees get punished by EPD. and lastly, jumpins get beat by early bk+hp or the ever-so-lasy lp crome spark (aka 'roll cancel').

    other good/ok matches would be asuka and don

    asuka: her slides get owned by EPD . do d,ub+lp+lk when u guess its coming, this way if u guess wrong you at a safe distance.

    don: this is an ok match. it tends to turn into a poke fest. chome easily gets around fbs w/ fullscreen jp hk or dive kicks to mess w/ his spacing (it all about the spacing, right sabin?). dons missed hp can be punish by cr hk/hp (practice this plz).
    it probably more of an even match.

    EPD

    has vaccum just outside of his st lp (why didnt you test this yourself ?:arazz:). sucks in just about every ground-based normal.


    unblockable

    is bullshit. its garanteed vs all turtles. just lp throw, jump forward hp, cr lp x4, cr hp (chain). it dizzies, rinse, repeat. its totally safe vs mike/raph cus it nulls inputs. that means no fear of chestbuster/rise thunder. and last time i checked, i dont think it can be backdashed from. two chars in the cast can jump out of it but i forgot who (been too long)


    his super is trash. i have one setup w/ it that can only be used once in a lifetime:
    vs cornerd opponent, lp throw, divekick, land and immediately active.
    what happens is you cross to the opposite side and the super vaccums them in dealing ALOT of damage (50?).
    after u use this setup: die, reincarnate, repeat. seriously, its that bad.


    jeron: leo is Low-tier, man. friggin inconsistent dp.
    his one good match is vs aska. the bitch cant jump in...ever! has to rely on random dps.
    "Regardless of what they knew and could do, the 360 d-pad undid them." - Book of Rioting Soul
    **Team Grain of Salt** 7/11
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,173 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    JeRon wrote:
    Genesis Version TMNT TF Tiers! hahaahaha! The game was really bad and sadly me and Sanford played it hardcore for a time! :lol:


    April O'neil- GOD TIER- I have never seen a character like this in ANY fighting game, and I've pretty much played them all. She's speaks brokeness of all levels far beyond that of any normal playable charcter or boss combined.
    Elbow Attack has one frame and is incredibly fast you cannot block on reaction at all, its actually less than 1 frame. So basically she can spam all day because theres 0 recovery and theres nothing you can do about it. Why.. because it chipps when you block, there are no reversals or counters in the game to get you outta block stun and if you try to take the hit you get knocked down then she can grab you on wake up, grab (slam), grab, repeat until you die. She has other moves but you dont need them at all. There is literally NOTHING any character in that game can do to her and she is unarguradbly the most "broken" fighting game character in history.


    Everyone else (Turtles/ Sissiphus/Ray Fillet/ Casey Jones) They serve no purpose in the World of April!


    Sometimes i think it's weird how vastly different genesis and SNES ports are. For example I don't know if any of you guys ever played the Justice League fighting game on genesis, but it was broken as fuck with superman and despero probably being the most broken characters ever made. Superman with easy dizzy combos/two stupid infs. and despero with his unblockable. The SNES version is very very very different. It looks 10x better but one could argue that it isn't as "deep" as the genesis version. It more or less has a bare bones fighting system, you can't even buffer off of normals IIRC. I just find it funny how ports of the same game differ so much and sometimes not for the better. But i would vote superman and despero the most broken fighting game characters in history
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • JeRonJeRon The Dictatorship Joined: Posts: 968
    margalis wrote:
    Looks like we agree for the most part. (Although you left Sharky off your list)

    Can you explain the following matchups a bit more. You don't have to go wild but a couple of sentences:


    Don vs. Shredder - is this really bad for Don? Seems like his standing fierce and head spin can stop Shredder rushes pretty well. What is Shredder's dominant plan here?

    Don vs. Armagon - How is this a good match for Don?


    Don vs Shredder- Standing RH trades with Don's S. Fr in his favor if not beats it on some instances. Shredder can jump in on Don for free. Cross him up all day gain meter for Super. Projectiles are not a prodominant strategy at all since Shredhead can reflect or Aura Crusher right through it (Rollcancel hahaah)
    Shredder's jump is real low and really fast so Don can try and keep him out with S. Fr but it will only be a matter of time before he gets in with ease then Don has no reversal to help him unless your gonna do wakeup headspin kick which can get baited.

    Don vs Armageddon: Absolutely free of charage. Arma has no answer to S. Frc. Arma's fireball trades with Dons fierce in Don's favor so that eliminates that option. It stops Armas jump in and his Shark dive (trade not in his favor) Basically if Arma blocks all day Don gets free meteer for Super where he can chipp. If Arma starts spamming Uppercut Don can S. Fierce before he lands (alot of characters have alot of trouble stoping whored uppercuts by arama but Don has the easiest time with it)

    Sayyd: Leo's actually not low. We can go more in depth and debate on this. Although Leo has the inconsistent DP handicap his fb's are amongst the best in the game. Relying on DP's for every situation isnt good anyway. Endless screw is good. When you take that away Leo has all the tools needed to win. If you still wanna debate it however my Leo's gotten alot better we can have a good session with him vs all the characters to test thouroughly, he fars off well!
    I will win with skill! Quote dedicated to ChunLi Zhang, Strongest woman in the world!
  • Zee Tee BeeZee Tee Bee Br0k3яZ Revanche Joined: Posts: 1,008
    JeRon wrote:
    If you still wanna debate it however my Leo's gotten alot better we can have a good session with him vs all the characters to test thouroughly, he fars off well!

    AWWWW Shiii... less do dis, kiddo!

    yeah arm v don is sooo bad. what is arm supposed to do?
    btw his name is armaGON. damn, jeron.

    uuhh, ive decided that i'll be posting all TF related info on spookys stie being that it will pose as the primary TF capital/source.

    http://teamspooky.com/index.html (your source for poor fighters :rofl: )
    "Regardless of what they knew and could do, the 360 d-pad undid them." - Book of Rioting Soul
    **Team Grain of Salt** 7/11
  • Sp00kySp00ky Joined: Posts: 1,061
    No ones going to come to my shitty site just to look for TF strats :P might as well keep it going.
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    OK that sounds about right, I figured the Shredder plan was jump-ins as Don's staff comes out a bit slow and at weird angle. (Far in front of him) The Don vs. Armadon (Armagon?) also makes sense. It seems like most Don matches come down to whether the opponent has an answer for standing fierce.
  • BOSS MONKEYBOSS MONKEY (shrug) Joined: Posts: 71
    I totally have this game for the Genesis. Is it just as good as the SNES version if I use a 6-button controller?
    "Win like a man. Lose like a man."
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