Blocking xups everytime ?

WolmarWolmar Joined: Posts: 184
I saw 0men telling a tip he got to block cross ups no matter what, in the ggpo chat. I still don't ge exactly HOW it is supposed to be performed. I copy that, any idea is welcome.

<afro legends> you blocked my crossups last night pretty well
<afro legends> whats the secret
<afro legends> i cant even block it lol
<0men> lol
<0men> i was tellin damdai about it
<0men> but he wasnt payin attention
<0men> mystrey fighter told me
<0men> its standing neutral stick
<0men> it auto corrects the way
<afro legends> lol
<afro legends> if you stand, your not blocking though
<0men> Mysterious Fighter told me that
<afro legends> doesnt make sense
<0men> it tried practice mode it works from all dirrections
<afro legends> lol
<0men> only on knockdown get ups
<0men> japs know this shit
<afro legends> so when i jump over, you just let go of the stick?
<TheMakron> can you elaborate
<0men> u press up then let go
<0men> and it block it
<wolmar> wtf
<0men> it
<afro legends> lol no way
<TheMakron> when do you do it, during the getup animation?
<wolmar> you press up when u are crossed up ?
<0men> yea its a glitch that what he was sayin
<afro legends> mysterious fighter?
<0men> they know about that man
<0men> yea ask him
<afro legends> i never heard about this
<wolmar> works with every character ?
<0men> i guess
<wolmar> crazy shit
<0men> i dunno about every char
<TheMakron> how's the timing, forgiving or no
<0men> maybe gotta do it even faster with bigger hit boxes
<0men> this old ass game has still alot more glitches
<afro legends> how come no one has ever heard about this
<afro legends> and the game is 18 years old lol
<0men> jumping up then timing the round house hits djs cr roundhouse
<TheMakron> omen, what character were you implementing this strategy with
<0men> ryu
<afro legends> when did you talk to MF
<afro legends> i havent seen him on in months
<0men> play late night man
<0men> like 4 5 am sometimes
<afro legends> he was on recently?
<0men> lil more then a week ago
<afro legends> nice
<0men> hes like daigo
<0men> maybe better
<0men> ask him for serious games
<afro legends> damn i wanna play him
<wolmar> 0men sorry man, i wanna know the exact thing to do about auto correct block on crossups
<wolmar> when your char gets up you press up then release ? or hold up to begin a jump
<0men> wolmar when djs about to do the cross up u make your char be stand neutral fast
<0men> so then the game auto correct for your char
<0men> its the way japs block djs cross ups
<0men> 10
<Kyouya> only against dj?
<0men> prob with different timing
<Kyouya> havent you trid against ken?
<0men> with cross ups in general
<Kyouya> i see
Against Balrog, it determine the direction Shoryu fist input is difficult. Has been condemned to the left orinput, so right. I try to issue a reversal is born so firmly command you miss wandering.
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Comments

  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Crazy. I'm going to try this when I get home.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • SteveTrenSteveTren RYU Ph.D Joined: Posts: 999
    If it works vs Claws wall dive with Ryu, well holy shit.
    Someone please examine this more closely.
    GGPO: stevetren
  • KyouyaKyouya SSF2T Joined: Posts: 173
    lol wolmar, i also saved that chat log (and cleaned it), pretty interesting if you ask me.
    Strike First, Strike Hard, Show No Mercy.
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    lol when you say 0men I was like, that guy doesn't know ST! He can play it quite well but this isn't his main game. (sup 0men!)

    Mysterious Fighter man...

    He's like the japanese equivalent of retired OG mike watson/John Choi.

    The shoto MF combo, I still haven't seen any top ryu players kurahashi / shooting D / sasori do it.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
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    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
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  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    New tech? Looking forward to getting this figured out, and adding a section for "reversal blocking" in the Wiki =p
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    SF2T is not SOCD safe. Holding both directions at the same time will give 'block both ways'.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    SF2T is not SOCD safe. Holding both directions at the same time will give 'block both ways'.

    That's old news, and SOCDs are considered cheating. This is something different... If i'm reading this correctly, you basically have to throw your stick in the up direction on wakeup if they're doing a meaty crossup? seems risky to perform... since you'll be jumping if you mess up or neutral and not blocking... but it'll be damn useful.... better start practicing =)

    This seems too good to be true though... gotta test test TEST
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • FuddFudd High Level Parking Joined: Posts: 1,215
    Really interesting subject and conversation to bring to light. Looks like another episode of Super Unsolved Mysteries II Turbo. I'm open-minded, but also skeptical at the same time. I don't doubt that the Japanese know this game really well, yet yuuvega kills anybody and everybody with bullshit crossups. If the truth of this technique does hold water, I get the feeling a character's jump startup speed will have a say in it.

    afro, next time you play yuuvega you should ask him about this.
    "See, Super Turbo is a real man's game... But Street Fighter 4's like Chuck-E-Cheese, baby. Y'know what I'm saying? Where a kid can be a kid. I'm a grown-ass man, so clearly I'm not old enough to go in the ball pit." -Steve Harrison (Translation: dat Fo' make you soft)
    Super Turbo Revival
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  • WolmarWolmar Joined: Posts: 184
    What is unclear to me is, WHAT is supposed to be done execution wise, exactly ? Pressing up ? When ? Stopping when ? blocking right after you're standing ?
    As of now, what I understood is : press up from the moment you're on the ground, to the moment you're getting up, then briefly release the stick until you're standing completely and block in the opposite direction your char is now standing up. Yeah that doesn't make a lot of sense haha. 0men if you there, please elaborate ! Or someone else, be precise like I just tried to be please.
    Against Balrog, it determine the direction Shoryu fist input is difficult. Has been condemned to the left orinput, so right. I try to issue a reversal is born so firmly command you miss wandering.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    Interesting tech. Assuming it isn't all bullshit, I'd be surprised to know that there's still undiscovered glitches in an almost 20-year-old game. Amazing.

    I always thought you blocked front and then cross-up on wake-up depending on the timing used for the cross-up attack. It still doesn't make sense how pressing up on wake-up will somehow block.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    my theory is, again if it isn't bullshit, probably has something to do with state changes and the prejump state... probably some overlap or strange order in the code that makes the character block rather than jump on wakeup, if timed properly.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • afro legendsafro legends Pugilist Specialist Joined: Posts: 256
    Honestly, I believe there is some truth to this because I watched Futachan and Seki play a marathon set and Futachan blocked everyone of Seki's crossups.

    Edit: Actually, scratch that. I rewatched and Futachan got nailed by a few. My bad.
  • otakugamer223otakugamer223 GGPO scrub Joined: Posts: 286
    That explanation is really ambiguous, first he says press up then let go, then he says press the opposite direction... wtf? However I still don't discredit this, because I've watched a lot of fei matches and his ambiguous crossup is blocked quite often in Mikado/GameSpot Versus matches... If this is true, then however you do this technique, it is probably something timing-intensive, ie. putting the stick on neutral (I assume) on the last frame, which would explain how it wouldn't work all the time. Also, DJ or whoever can probably alter the timing of the crossup by a few frames to counter the tactic... just a theory.

    I'm also interested, if this is true, how claw's 50/50s are still practical. It really depends on how this glitch works, perhaps special moves don't fill the criteria, ie. claw walldive, air tatsu etc. similar to exception of why supers can't be RC'd in CVS2.
    fighting games are fun
  • Professor JonesProfessor Jones Joined: Posts: 213
    That sounds interesting but we all saw the best japanese players get hit by crossups (and it's an important strategy in ST since the damage potential of crossups is huge) so I'm very skeptical, unless it's an unrevealed secret (which is unlikely but not impossible).
  • SotoSoto The un-safe jump master. ~FrankieSnow~ Joined: Posts: 244
    Pretty much agree with professor jones but no harm in test this, right
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,131
    Maybe could be true if this is a just frame thing (making it far harder than a normal reversal since you wouldn't be able to piano it) or something. I don't see how the Japanese would get hit by crossups at all otherwise.
  • KyouyaKyouya SSF2T Joined: Posts: 173
    However I still don't discredit this, because I've watched a lot of fei matches and his ambiguous crossup is blocked quite often in Mikado/GameSpot Versus matches...
    Thats because Fei cross up is the easiest to block, especially for some characters.

    Also im with Professor Jones, this is interesting but im skeptical too, like he said a lot of the best japanese players got hit by cross ups pretty often.
    Strike First, Strike Hard, Show No Mercy.
  • WolmarWolmar Joined: Posts: 184
    New shit coming from the ggpo room. Omen (here under alias daigo) doesn't seem to joke... We gotta test that, or maybe that guy is just a sick liar I dunno :

    <orf> daig0 was it you who was saying about blocking xups using some new trick?
    <DAlG0> orf its not new its in every street fighter game
    <DAlG0> auto correct block
    <orf> can you explain to me if you aren't trolling? :)
    <DAlG0> orf on wake up only if u know your opponent is gonna go for ambigues cross up u just hold up then neutral fast your char will block any cross up
    <DAlG0> if timed right
    <DAlG0> time it to how they jump
    <DAlG0> thats how i block afros crossups
    <orf> so you hold up as you are getting up
    <DAlG0> if i know there coming
    <orf> then neutral when you stand
    <orf> sounds insane
    <DAlG0> its ez once u practice it
    <orf> how come you need to hold up?
    <DAlG0> i do it so i get the timing
    <DAlG0> its timing neutral really
    <DAlG0> the game autp blocks
    <orf> i see, so like anything into neutral would work
    <DAlG0> yea
    <orf> does it have to be on the exact frame?
    <DAlG0> u gotta know its coming though
    <DAlG0> then see it and u do it fast
    <DAlG0> i use that trick in cvs2
    <orf> how accurate does it have to be?
    <DAlG0> it also works on there and pretty much every street fighter game maybe even vampire savior too
    <DAlG0> think inputting it in that 1 frame u have
    <DAlG0> it has to be in at that time
    <orf> wow thats hard
    <DAlG0> yea thats why u kinda gotta know there gonna do that
    <DAlG0> no1 plays a2 anymore =(
    <orf> thanks!
    <orf> ill try it out
    <DAlG0> if u get the timing good then it works everytime
    <DAlG0> then dj cant even cross u up
    Against Balrog, it determine the direction Shoryu fist input is difficult. Has been condemned to the left orinput, so right. I try to issue a reversal is born so firmly command you miss wandering.
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    This needs to get tested.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    Snip
    So... basically u miss that 1 frame window, u welcome a big ass combo the oponent is trying to do after the cross up?
    this is a very high risk, very low reward technique...

    honestly, I would use it only vs Vega's walldives.
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    We should probably practice it before we dismiss how effective it may or may not be. If it's legit, it might be possible to incorporate as part of an option select as well.

    It's new tech to most of us, which is amazing considering how old and thoroughly played this game is.
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    I'm especially interested in the fact that it may work on other games as well
  • Turn A TurnTurn A Turn Joined: Posts: 26
    So you have a 1 frame window to return the joystick to neutral? Sounds hard as hell.
  • Zero1_Zero1_ Combo fraud Joined: Posts: 642
    I can't see the logic in how this is supposed to work. Up is not a blocking direction, so why would pressing up at a certain time initiate a block that will block crossups from any side?

    At best the only thing I can think of it using it as an escape for badly timed crossup combos, meaning you get hit by the crossup and instead of sitting there blocking the right or wrong way, you initiate a jump command and since you get knocked out of it between the crossup hitting and the second hit of the combo, you do the fall away animation which makes the combo whiff. I do this occasionally but it's not good against someone with good crossup timing.

    It should be easy to test, just set an emulator running, get claw to walldive, frame step through and input an up direction on different frames and see if it ever works.

    If the guy was saying it works offline, then that's something, but online I dunno. It could be the emulator getting confused or predicting wrongly for all we know
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    I can't see the logic in how this is supposed to work. Up is not a blocking direction, so why would pressing up at a certain time initiate a block that will block crossups from any side?

    At best the only thing I can think of it using it as an escape for badly timed crossup combos, meaning you get hit by the crossup and instead of sitting there blocking the right or wrong way, you initiate a jump command and since you get knocked out of it between the crossup hitting and the second hit of the combo, you do the fall away animation which makes the combo whiff. I do this occasionally but it's not good against someone with good crossup timing.

    It should be easy to test, just set an emulator running, get claw to walldive, frame step through and input an up direction on different frames and see if it ever works.

    If the guy was saying it works offline, then that's something, but online I dunno. It could be the emulator getting confused or predicting wrongly for all we know

    <orf> i see, so like anything into neutral would work
    <DAlG0> yea

    ... and if it's 1 frame timing, it makes sense that japs would get hit by crossups... i mean, pobody's nerfect.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • WolmarWolmar Joined: Posts: 184
    We tested it with Orf last night. I once blocked from holding down during wake up, and releasing to neutral on standing, and my character did block. I'm 100% sure of my execution. The main, huge problem being, I managed to do that once in a 5 mn non-stop attempt, so whether it's actual or not, it's incredibly risky and hard.
    Orf did it also, even if he said he was unsure about pressing maybe unwillingly the counter direction. If not, he did it 4/5 times during the same amount of testing time.
    Against Balrog, it determine the direction Shoryu fist input is difficult. Has been condemned to the left orinput, so right. I try to issue a reversal is born so firmly command you miss wandering.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    So basically the risk-to-reward ratio is REALLY bad for this technique?
  • Zero1_Zero1_ Combo fraud Joined: Posts: 642
    I still cant understand how this would work. Can someone set up an autoit script to automate the crossup/wakeup situation and run it with a lua script showing the hitboxes and stuff?
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I still cant understand how this would work. Can someone set up an autoit script to automate the crossup/wakeup situation and run it with a lua script showing the hitboxes and stuff?
    I'm skeptical, but there's also that charge technique that allows you to eat a meaty (aerial only?) attack while holding down, but with the standing hitstun animation, which recovers much faster. You would do it by moving the stick to ↓ or ↘ - I don't know - and it also does not make sense at all. But it works. Go figure...
    So basically the risk-to-reward ratio is REALLY bad for this technique?
    If it works, than it depends on the ability to hit ↑ with a 1-frame precision. Which, in turn, would depend on the player's timing, more than anything. But we should recall Unessential's statement: pobody is perfect! :rolleyes:
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    It's not up direction you need to do in that 1 frame, what you need to do is stand up. I'm guessing during the stand up animation, for 1 frame, your character will block from every direction.
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    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    If it works, than it depends on the ability to hit ↑ with a 1-frame precision. Which, in turn, would depend on the player's timing, more than anything. But we should recall Unessential's statement: pobody is perfect! :rolleyes:

    In theory, with perfect execution, it's viable. But what I'm saying is that is it worth eating a damaging combo or ToD combo in a tournament match, in the off chance that it might work? I don't think so, unless we find some way to make it consistently work without perfect 1-frame timing. It seems more prudent to simply choose a direction to block. It doesn't even seem like the very best players in Japan are doing this.

    It'd be great if we could a way to test this using scripts, in a controlled setting, to at least verify it works 100% of the time if done properly.
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    It's not up direction you need to do in that 1 frame, what you need to do is stand up. I'm guessing during the stand up animation, for 1 frame, your character will block from every direction.
    This is an interesting theory. I'm excited to see what we are able to figure out about this. If it turns out to be a matter of 1 frame execution instead of it being a property of standing up, this would change a lot.

    Would frame skip make it so this isn't 100%?
  • Zero1_Zero1_ Combo fraud Joined: Posts: 642
    I wonder if this does work, that there is some connection between this frame that you auto block on, and the frame where you can wakeup throw when getting up from a knock down. I wonder if there is some weird propery about the first frame when you stand up.
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    I wonder if this does work, that there is some connection between this frame that you auto block on, and the frame where you can wakeup throw when getting up from a knock down. I wonder if there is some weird propery about the first frame when you stand up.
    Nice speculation! Makes sense
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    Why is this still even being discussed? Set it up in TRUST and try to make it happen once on video. Turn on input display and advance frame-by-frame. Stop the bending of spoons already. I found out recently that some ridiculously high %age of people actually believe 911 was some kind of inside job.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Why is this still even being discussed? Set it up in TRUST and try to make it happen once on video. Turn on input display and advance frame-by-frame. Stop the bending of spoons already. I found out recently that some ridiculously high %age of people actually believe 911 was some kind of inside job.
    You won't believe the amount of idiots who think Apolo 11 was an American fraud.
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    You won't believe the amount of idiots who think Apolo 11 was an American fraud.

    I found out about that a long time ago actually, and was shocked to read that 6% to 20% of the population even in the US thought the moon landing was staged. That's one thing, but I think the number is actually somehow higher for 9/11. When I run into these people I want to quote Alex P. Keaton's dialogue from an episode of Family Ties where he and a work colleague were in a cramped hotel in Chicago on a business trip, forced to share the same room, and he finished it by saying something like "and this, this is really just my basement, Chicago doesn't even exist!" but I haven't found it online like on youtube or the script from that episode. Obviously because it is a government conspiracy cover-up.
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    You won't believe the amount of idiots who think Apolo 11 was an American fraud.

    I found out about that a long time ago actually, and was shocked to read that 6% to 20% of the population even in the US thought the moon landing was staged. That's one thing, but I think the number is actually somehow higher for 9/11. When I run into these people I want to quote Alex P. Keaton's dialogue from an episode of Family Ties where he and a work colleague were in a cramped hotel in Chicago on a business trip, forced to share the same room, and he finished it by saying something like "and this, this is really just my basement, Chicago doesn't even exist!" but I haven't found it online like on youtube or the script from that episode. Obviously because it is a government conspiracy cover-up.
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    I found out about that a long time ago actually, and was shocked to read that 6% to 20% of the population even in the US thought the moon landing was staged. That's one thing, but I think the number is actually somehow higher for 9/11. When I run into these people I want to quote Alex P. Keaton's dialogue from an episode of Family Ties where he and a work colleague were in a cramped hotel in Chicago on a business trip, forced to share the same room, and he finished it by saying something like "and this, this is really just my basement, Chicago doesn't even exist!" but I haven't found it online like on youtube or the script from that episode. Obviously because it is a government conspiracy cover-up.
    Never underestimate the ignorance of the general populace of the United States. Here is a video of some guy trying to get Buzz Aldrin to swear on the bible he went to the moon.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    That was so well-deserved!
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