Re-evaluting what you're doing

Roy0Roy0 Team NAHJoined: Posts: 543
Hey everyone. I feel I'm approaching that stage where I can consider myself a mid-level player, but there have been moments where I've taken a few steps back and still make silly mistakes I feel I've drilled into my head to not do. This had been a bit frustrating at times, and more so now, I'm seeing the same general flaws I had to fight with in other games seep into some of the newer games I want to learn. It's actually only now that I want to sit down and think about what I'm actually doing wrong when it comes to improving or learning a game in general. So far, it seems like I take online / casual sessions too seriously, I don't utilize training mode as much as I should, and I don't analyse match videos thoroughly enough. However, I haven't figured out a game plan to work on these areas.

Has anyone here hit that roadblock in terms of learning games / improving your play, and what have you done to either go around it?
Member Of Rutgers' Underground Gaming Society: Knight Slash 4! Spring 2012
http://www.youtube.com/user/JustBlockStupid

Comments

  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭✭
    So far, it seems like I take online / casual sessions too seriously, I don't utilize training mode as much as I should, and I don't analyse match videos thoroughly enough. However, I haven't figured out a game plan to work on these areas.

    Has anyone here hit that roadblock in terms of learning games / improving your play, and what have you done to either go around it?

    You seem like you've nailed 3 of your primary problems down. Good, now we just need to come up with a way to curb them.
    • You take sessions too seriously? That's rarely ever a problem. If anything, it's pretty good that you take every loss personally. But you should consider what kind of an effect that has on your mind. Do you stress out whenever you're losing or about to lose? Do you feel the momentum shift, and your opponent is starting to mount a comeback, and you panic? Do you get too excited whenever you're winning, to the point that you start to make dumb risks? It's fine to take games seriously. But if you're at the point where you take it SO serious that you're going through a constant wave of emotions everytime you play, that's something you'll have to learn to control.
    • Use training mode more. It's going to take some self-discipline to actually get yourself in there and practice. It helps to come up with a basic regime, so that you don't end up getting bored, or you're not seeing the results that you're aiming for. You can keep it simple, like warming up before you play online or in casual sessions. Practice your basic combos, setups, special moves, etc etc. Things that you will be using throughout the match, and things that you'll want to be consistent at, should be focused on first. For example, that fancy advanced combos that utilizes multiple 1-frame links take a backseat to hit confirm combos, your variable anti-air options, and ground game work.
    • Be sure to spend time watching replays of your matches. If you don't have that option, feel free to record yourself with a phone or camcorder. This is critical in order for you to figure out where your strengths and weaknesses are. If you don't know what you're good at and what you're weak at, how could you hope to improve?
    Ideally, you would do your sessions in 3 stages. First, start off in training mode and practice your core skills. Second, start playing online or offline matches, and do your best to remain calm, but keep your head in the game, and try to obtain a good win:loss ratio. Third, when you're getting tired and want to wind down, watch replays of your matches. Keep either a mental or a physical check list, and write down what you're good at, what you're weak at, and reasons why you won or lost your matches. Usually it's not a single mistake or opportunity that landed you the win, it's a series of micro-battles and exchanges that you either won or lost.
  • Roy0Roy0 Team NAH Joined: Posts: 543
    ah awesome. Thanks for the tips. I also forgot to mention that I have asked other players in my area about what I need to do to get better, and they've noticed that my general playstyle is very passive and i tend to be a bit more defensive and respectful than necessary. I have been trying to adjust to a more active and offensive play style, but at times i feel super braindead and uncomfortable. But I guess it's because I'm not used to playing in that type of way.
    Member Of Rutgers' Underground Gaming Society: Knight Slash 4! Spring 2012
    http://www.youtube.com/user/JustBlockStupid
  • huckles98huckles98 Joined: Posts: 668
    ah awesome. Thanks for the tips. I also forgot to mention that I have asked other players in my area about what I need to do to get better, and they've noticed that my general playstyle is very passive and i tend to be a bit more defensive and respectful than necessary. I have been trying to adjust to a more active and offensive play style, but at times i feel super braindead and uncomfortable. But I guess it's because I'm not used to playing in that type of way.

    Try jogging yourself by completely switching up your style for a few matches. If you play so defensively you tend to slowly get worked down then try to approach your next few matches aggressively. Make it fun for yourself, don't worry about the outcome at that point. See what works and what doesn't, get more comfortable at switching gears. Ultimately you will find tactics and set ups to add to your established game plan, and you will grow as a player. Then when you are comfortable mixing the styles properly you can try switching modes mid fight, or set, when your opponent thinks he has you dialed in. If done properly you start to appear more unpredictable and random. Then its up to him to adapt his game plan to yours or face the loss.
  • keo-baskeo-bas Joined: Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭
    ah awesome. Thanks for the tips. I also forgot to mention that I have asked other players in my area about what I need to do to get better, and they've noticed that my general playstyle is very passive and i tend to be a bit more defensive and respectful than necessary. I have been trying to adjust to a more active and offensive play style, but at times i feel super braindead and uncomfortable. But I guess it's because I'm not used to playing in that type of way.
    Their is reason for this feeling. When you play out of your comfort zone, your bound to feel out of place. While it is consider ideal for one to work on their weak area. I don't think this is necessary, if your grown accustom to something then I think its better to stick to your guns and developed further from their. But I wouldn't disregard the other spectrum either. Try to learned how the other style work, but dont actually adopt them (if not comfortable with it). Active style generally aim's to overwhelmed its opponents while Passive style generally aims to outwit its opponent.

    With that said its their some tactic that are believe to solidify defensive play
    Hit and run
    Pokes
    Set ups
    zoning

    These tactic allow one to apply some form of offense with minimal risk and can be apply at any pace.

    As passive and defensive player myself I think it goes with out saying that we've have harder time learning and developing due to that majority of informational resources on FG advocates a bipolar style (Not to mention these generation of games rewards the active more than passive).
    youtube channel keobas

    http://www.youtube.com/user/keobas
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭✭
    ah awesome. Thanks for the tips. I also forgot to mention that I have asked other players in my area about what I need to do to get better, and they've noticed that my general playstyle is very passive and i tend to be a bit more defensive and respectful than necessary. I have been trying to adjust to a more active and offensive play style, but at times i feel super braindead and uncomfortable. But I guess it's because I'm not used to playing in that type of way.

    I mean it really depends on the character you play and the matchup that you're facing. Sometimes, it's the best strategy to play defensive and passive. Other times, you really need to up the pace of the match, and play aggressive. Certain matchups require that you do both. There's nothing with wrong with having a passive and defensive playstyle. Plenty of people utilize it to the highest-levels and do quite well (Dieminion, F.Champ, Chris G) all know how to do this very well.

    Certain characters always produce better results with passive play. In SF4, Dhalsim and Guile are extremely good at doing this. Dhalsim is typically a very defensive, reactionary character, who uses his strong anti-airs and ability to control pace, to win his matches. Guile is the same way. His fast-recovering sonic booms and good normal anti-airs makes him extremely good at setting the pace of the match. Throw a fireball, keep yourself at good ranges, and react to what your opponent does.

    Of course, the best thing to do is learn to be able to play both aggressively and passively, and knowing WHEN to do either of these things. Aggression can be used to overwhelm your opponent, make them panic, and make them eat damage. It's incredibly difficult to do this unless you know the options that your opponent has against aggressive play (i.e. mashed uppercuts), or how easily your opponent will panic under pressure (they'll just block your shit and back off).

    A good training tool for you, would be to dedicate an entire week's worth of training or so, to playing aggressive. Ignore your win/loss ratio. Just have ONE goal, and one goal only, and that is to be more aggressive. Try to keep yourself up close to the enemy when you're at an advantage. Don't jump at him recklessly or anything like that, but once you're in a good position (like when you knock your opponent down), go for ambiguos cross-ups, hit confirm combos, frame traps, tick throws, all that shit. Overwhelm them with a solid aggressive play. If it's not working, back off for a bit, and wait for another opportunity to start up your offense. The best aggressive players all have one thing in common: they know when to press and when to back off.
  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭
    Has anyone here hit that roadblock in terms of learning games / improving your play, and what have you done to either go around it?
    Play someone who will kill you for it 10 out of 10 times. When you play a Ryu player for the first time as Bison and he OS's all of your reversals, you're gonna get hit. But if the same thing keeps killing you, hopefully you have enough self-control to stop doing wakeups.

    Also always work on specific things to incorporate into your game. The more specific, the better.

    Casuals are the way to see what's good and what's not, and to practice your skills. Taking every match seriously is good. Playing every match to win at any cost is not. Play to learn, but also practice playing to win.

    You say you don't have a game plan to get better at training mode? That's really simple... just start using training mode. Now. Instead of playing online (or at least out of that time frame).
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - The original blueprint for competitive fighting game thought.

    Maj's Footsies Handbook - It's like the Bible, but for Street Fighter.
  • EvansgambitEvansgambit Atomic Zangi Joined: Posts: 378
    Hey everyone. I feel I'm approaching that stage where I can consider myself a mid-level player, but there have been moments where I've taken a few steps back and still make silly mistakes I feel I've drilled into my head to not do. This had been a bit frustrating at times, and more so now, I'm seeing the same general flaws I had to fight with in other games seep into some of the newer games I want to learn. It's actually only now that I want to sit down and think about what I'm actually doing wrong when it comes to improving or learning a game in general. So far, it seems like I take online / casual sessions too seriously, I don't utilize training mode as much as I should, and I don't analyse match videos thoroughly enough. However, I haven't figured out a game plan to work on these areas.

    Has anyone here hit that roadblock in terms of learning games / improving your play, and what have you done to either go around it?

    You need to record your game, and get it analyzed by an independent source. Often in the heat of the moment, we are preoccupied with our biases and our judgment is cloudy. Get a fellow knowledgeable player to review your performance, so you see things from another perspective.

    No. The main roadblock is time. I still have 34 characters to analyze completely. And if I don't have all the knowledge, then as a player, I haven't done everything I can to better myself. So to get better, you have to put in the time, and the practice, and the study. If you play with better competition, you get better. If you play with weaker competition, you get worst. Keep that in mind. I think ultimately, it gets to a point where its no longer fun, but its more like work. Like a world class professional poker player.
    ATOMIC ZANGI: Nuclear & Radioactive
  • Kuma OniKuma Oni Scrubby Adrian Joined: Posts: 1,558
    All good advice here. To be devil's advocate though... it's important to keep your head in the game, important to learn from your mistakes. It's also very important to not over think things. You will make mistakes. Everyone does. I know I do constantly but I make a mental note when I do. If you over think your games, you're going to do things like: second guess yourself when someone jumps in, hesitate during a mix up or completely blow the execution on a combo.

    Practice, practice, practice is key. Training room is going to really help. If you find you bomb out in a certain situation, set the dummy up to do that move/combo and counter or defend what they're doing over and over. If you mess up a certain combo, practice it over and over. For example, I'm just starting to learn 3S now. I played SF4 a couple years and I feel it made me get soft and I didn't really grind execution in an unforgiving environment. I'm finding the timing and combos hard to do consistantly in 3S. My remedy, I jump in training mode about an hour a day. If I go in there and do the combo I've been having problems with 3-5 times right away without errors, I try it on the other side and call it a day for that combo. If you can go in to a game and pull off a combo, counter or block something when you're "cold" then you're golden. You will think less and less about what you have to do in a situation and just do it.

    Don't get me wrong, don't go all dummy mode and stop thinking... just don't over do it, bro. Practice. Analyze. Feel.
    MvC3! Because SF4 wasn't quite easy enough for you...
  • GordonsBeardGordonsBeard QCF+P Bad Stoned Joined: Posts: 379
    Go for shit that "shouldn't work".

    There was a story about how Japenese players in the arcades seem to play "recklessly", or they go for the huge plays every time when they know it's not safe. If you aren't playing for keeps or pride or anything important than don't feel bad in just "pushing buttons" that may or may not work out for you in the end. It's better to learn that this crazy FADC combo only works against one guy in the corner, than it would be to take the 'safe bet' and just eat the loss for that round because you weren't gusty.

    Use your sessions to play loose and hard, but learn from what you're doing. Then when it's time for a real match you reveal you've been wearing some super saiyan weighted belts and you go back to playing for real - safe plays, careful thinking, always looking for that one place you can unleash some new secret technology you figured out while fooling around earlier.
  • Terry BogardeTerry Bogarde Joined: Posts: 259
    Go for shit that "shouldn't work".

    There was a story about how Japenese players in the arcades seem to play "recklessly", or they go for the huge plays every time when they know it's not safe. If you aren't playing for keeps or pride or anything important than don't feel bad in just "pushing buttons" that may or may not work out for you in the end. It's better to learn that this crazy FADC combo only works against one guy in the corner, than it would be to take the 'safe bet' and just eat the loss for that round because you weren't gusty.

    Use your sessions to play loose and hard, but learn from what you're doing. Then when it's time for a real match you reveal you've been wearing some super saiyan weighted belts and you go back to playing for real - safe plays, careful thinking, always looking for that one place you can unleash some new secret technology you figured out while fooling around earlier.

    aslong as all that reckless play doesnt became a habit or part of his general play that he cant get rid of it.. especially as he is only a mid level player still learning the game. Hail marys might not help him become a better player.

    The Japanese players that play like that are not the better players, as Diemininion said they are the ones who are used to that 1 loss and off format, so they play that way because it's all or nothing. If you have a home console, there's no reason to play that way. I totally agree with you about being bold enough to always try out new technology though
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