Charge characters VS. Quarter Circle characters

DopeSauce

I was just wondering if charge characters are more defensive by design? Or it might just be the way I play them cause I am always charging for a move and I feel like they just can't be played offensively as effectively as quarter circles, or am I just playing them wrong? For example when I play with honda balrog or guile I feel like I am just holding down back waiting for them to come to me cause I feel like I should always have a charge.

huckles98

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ugo_2u

DopeSauce, post: 7531947, member: 40504 wrote:

I was just wondering if charge characters are more defensive by design? Or it might just be the way I play them cause I am always charging for a move and I feel like they just can't be played offensively as effectively as quarter circles, or am I just playing them wrong? For example when I play with honda balrog or guile I feel like I am just holding down back waiting for them to come to me cause I feel like I should always have a charge.

not really, a charge charge character doesnt need to be played defensively. it depends on the player. for example, balrog can play footsie with you all night and still win by playing aggresively, guile can do that too and also honda. the key to either defesive or offensive play is in the buffering of the charge move.
there are many opportunities to charge your move without holding down back

a charge can be "hidden" during these scenarios

1. block strings
2. jumps
3. throws / throw tech
4. during air to air reset attacks
5. during combo
6. while blocking
7. focus attack after the dash cancel

now all these above doesn't need you to be crouching for you to charging, example: balrog dashes in, then goes with three crouch jabs, now assuming you hold down/back as soon as you dash in then the jabs (three or four) you already have a charge ready to let rip. honda during an ochio throw, hundred hand slap can charge a headbutt, guile can be charging back and hop at you (back+light kick) so you can play offensively with a charge character. especially bison

Shadow

DopeSauce, post: 7531947, member: 40504 wrote:

I feel like they just can't be played offensively as effectively as quarter circles.

Go watch some matches of a good Urien player and you will change your mind.

Bakuhakubasugasu

Don't see holding back for a charge move as being a defensive thing. See charging motions just as motions used to do moves. Just because you hit back or hold back for a command doesn't necessarily mean you can't continue to apply pressure.

eltrouble

DopeSauce, post: 7531947, member: 40504 wrote:

I was just wondering if charge characters are more defensive by design? Or it might just be the way I play them cause I am always charging for a move and I feel like they just can't be played offensively as effectively as quarter circles, or am I just playing them wrong? For example when I play with honda balrog or guile I feel like I am just holding down back waiting for them to come to me cause I feel like I should always have a charge.

Playing a charge character isn't about holding down-back the entire time. It's knowing when to charge, and when to not charge for positional advantage. As generic advice, it's good to always be charging down-back, since you have access to all of your specials. However, smart opponents will notice this, and probably not place themselves in a position where you can free damage. So at some point, it's probably a good idea to let go of charge and move towards your opponent to threaten with strong normals.

Pretty much every charge character is given good normals to compensate for their inability to do special moves whenever they feel like it. Honda, Balrog, Guile, Bison, they all have very good normal moves to poke with.

And of course, there are things like charging while jumping, poking with ground normals while holding back in order to still have a back charge, etc. Smart players usually alternate between having charge, quickly moving around, and charging again, to get the most advantage out of their moveset.

SUPARNOVAX

DopeSauce, post: 7531947, member: 40504 wrote:

I was just wondering if charge characters are more defensive by design? Or it might just be the way I play them cause I am always charging for a move and I feel like they just can't be played offensively as effectively as quarter circles, or am I just playing them wrong? For example when I play with honda balrog or guile I feel like I am just holding down back waiting for them to come to me cause I feel like I should always have a charge.

Defensive by design? Possibly. Although if there was a reality where charge characters in the Street Fighter series had motion commands instead while retaining the same properties that game would be broken as hell.

*Drooling at M.Bison with command motions and same move properties*

TheBigDaddyC-Master

Well the better moves was given to compensate for the charging. They could nerf the moves and make them motion characters, it is probably better as is though.

dhoushi

Depends more on the character than the style of the super moves. E Honda generally can be considered a defensive character, while Vega would be offensive. QCF characters are generally better at zoning, and charge characters are generally better at pokes. But the tempo of the characters is vastly different from one character to the next.

YorKeY

usually charge characters have bad ass safe normals to compensate for not being able to fireball or dragon punch at a moments notice if they had to. The reason their normals are sick as well is cause they usually have really good useful angles for every situation. i can only imagine how beast guile would be if he dident have to charge both his special moves, damn. Now when i really think about the angles of cammys normals and the fact that she DOES NOT have to charge....... well......... Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Lol

eltrouble

YorKeY, post: 7534920, member: 63761 wrote:

i can only imagine how beast guile would be if he dident have to charge both his special moves

Play Guile in SF4 on the Nintendo 3DS in Lite Mode. That's pretty much it. Broken ass shit.

Kikuichimonji

You've never seen someone walk forwards with Chun Li in ST have you?

Like others have said, charge characters get unfair normals to compensate for their special move restrictions.

Stop focusing on specials so much, focus more on normals.

Francys Pai

SUPARNOVAX, post: 7534255, member: 2393 wrote:

Defensive by design? Possibly. Although if there was a reality where charge characters in the Street Fighter series had motion commands instead while retaining the same properties that game would be broken as hell.

*Drooling at M.Bison with command motions and same move properties*

This and Vega with Roll as QCF? Or even flip kick? Oh it would make my so flashy it hurts combos less time-consuming to learn and the crossup EX FBA (Scarlet Terror setup) an absolute breeze.

eltrouble

Kikuichimonji, post: 7537958, member: 11194 wrote:

You've never seen someone walk forwards with Chun Li in ST have you?

It's pretty damn scary to watch a Chun in ST walk towards you with the super bar flashing. At that point, you either pray that you're playing a shitty Chun Li that will hit K at the sign of a random twitch, or you start playing the "will she throw or super game?"

Honda also had the same glitch, but it's not nearly as powerful in a majority of his matches.

Tebbo

urien is from 3S.
charging is entirely different in 3S.

terrible example to give someone playing sf4.

eltrouble

Tebbo, post: 7542107, member: 9985 wrote:

urien is from 3S.
charging is entirely different in 3S.

terrible example to give someone playing sf4.

Pretty accurate statement. Charge partitioning (which only exists in 3s afaik), makes the art of maintaining and utilizing charge a bit more difficult, but in exchange, you're able to pretty much spam charge moves like regular specials. This is largely what makes Urien such a beast.

In the case of Remy, if he were put in SF4 and given charge partitioning, he would be broken as shit. However since 3s has parrying, this has really limited how powerful the fireball game is, and so he isn't highly regarded as a useable character.

Tebbo

something like urien TTH doesn't really use partitioning. and partitioning isn't about rapid fire anything except lov machinegun since you start stacking charges and your charge timing and button pressing completely desyncs after about 2 lovs.

parry isn't what hurts remy.

OP: charging is just a different method. that's all. don't limit yourself. it's a style of input, not a style of play though it does depend on the game.

irl II Wilson

I find it harder to anti air when I use charge.
Also I feel better having a dp to fadc rather thn a flash kick.
Just my input.

Also the best balrog players don't sit down back they mix it up

ugo_2u

AA with charge characters is their godlike normals, guile crHP, honda njHP, bison njHP, gen crane crHK. its not an issue

TurboNewbie

I think that players who use the "hidden" charge times and connections to make a charge character offensive are advanced players.

Maybe newbies hold :db:all the time waiting on the defense game but it doesn't necessarily means that they cannot apply pressure on your face :)
[SIZE=27px] [/SIZE]

eltrouble

TurboNewbie, post: 7686526, member: 80268 wrote:

I think that players who use the "hidden" charge times and connections to make a charge character offensive are advanced players.

Maybe newbies hold :db:all the time waiting on the defense game but it doesn't necessarily means that they cannot apply pressure on your face :)

The issue is that if you're hold all the time, you're just standing still. This makes it easier to predict what you're going to do, as well as makes you a standing target for pokes. Once you understand the basics of how to retain, use, hide, and release charge, it's important to learn to keep yourself mobile and active in the game to keep your opponent off guard.

bkfst_sausage

eltrouble, post: 7686899, member: 50728 wrote:

The issue is that if you're hold all the time, you're just standing still. This makes it easier to predict what you're going to do, as well as makes you a standing target for pokes. Once you understand the basics of how to retain, use, hide, and release charge, it's important to learn to keep yourself mobile and active in the game to keep your opponent off guard.

This is especially true in a game like 3S with partitioning. Shit is so scary when Remy just dashes his ass up to you like 3 times and does a flash kick in your face.

eltrouble

bkfst_sausage, post: 7687002, member: 55137 wrote:

This is especially true in a game like 3S with partitioning. Shit is so scary when Remy just dashes his ass up to you like 3 times and does a flash kick in your face.

It's far scarier with Urien, since it greatly expands his combo options, unblockable setups, and okizeme.

Subjective

bkfst_sausage, post: 7687002, member: 55137 wrote:

This is especially true in a game like 3S with partitioning. Shit is so scary when Remy just dashes his ass up to you like 3 times and does a flash kick in your face.

Here's an example of charge partitioning for everyone who wants to learn. All of this thread was really helpful!

bkfst_sausage

Subjective, post: 7745236, member: 75269 wrote:

*Old ass video*
All of this was really helpful!

ok?