Major differences between Arcade ST and HDR ST(Classic Mode)

afro legendsafro legends Pugilist SpecialistJoined: Posts: 256
Can someone list the major differences here between the 2 versions besides the obvious:

-PS3 version has built in input lag....like 3 or 4 frames more than arcade version.
Xbox version has 1 frame input lag

-Speed is slower


.

Comments

  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    The speed is different as they the changed how turbo worked on it. Instead of skipping frames they made it play more frames in the same amount in time.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    The speed is different as they the changed how turbo worked on it. Instead of skipping frames they made it play more frames in the same amount in time.
    This' real??? It could actually be awesome: perfectly timed reversals would work 100%, which is fair, IMHO.
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    T. Hawk shit is a lot easier to do in classic for some reason.
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    Frame Skip comparison of the DreamCast and HDR. I haven't done frame skip testing on the arcade version.
        Turbo Game Frames Shown Frames Speed
     
    DC  0    32          32          1.00
     
        1    32          26          1.23
        2    32          25          1.28
        3    32          24          1.33
        4    32          23          1.39
        5    32          20          1.60
        6    32          16          2.00
     
    HDR 0    32          32          1.00
        1    38          32          1.19
        2    39          32          1.22
        3    40          32          1.25
        4    41          32          1.28
     
    ARC (Based on Dammit's data)
        0    ?          ?          ~1.27
        1    ?          ?          ~1.32
        2    ?          ?          ~1.37
        2    ?          ?          ~1.45
    
    Dreamcast tested using a Toodles CD
    http://dammit.typepad.com/blog/2010/05/turbo-speed-frameskip-continued.html

    Input lag:
    Arcade 2.5 frames average (all speeds)
    Dreacast 3.5-4.5 frames average (higher turbo=lower lag)
    Xbox 360 4.5-4.8 frames average (higher turbo=lower lag)
    PS3 5.3-5.7 frames average (higher turbo=lower lag)

    N.B.: There cut-off for perceivable delay is apparently just about about 6 frames. PS3 HDR is the only one of the games that is ever slower than that, which may explain why it feels so different.

    Where it's practical, I'd suggest playing versions other than PS3 HDR.
    Edit:
    Displays with more than 1 frame lag are to be avoided for all of the console versions for similar reasons.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,165
    Hah, some time ago I played PS3 HDR in an HDTV and I felt it really laggy. Looks like I wasn't crazy like the people around me suggested.

    How does emulated ST compare to PCB ST, input lag wise?
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    Depends on the setup of your computer which emulator you're using, what monitor, what os, are you using a converter to use your old ps2 controller, and is your usb slot good?

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,165
    Then, what would be the best setup for emulated ST, and how much more lag would you have with that ideal setup compared to the original thing?

    Currently I'm on 7, USB 2.0, 360 SFIV TE Stick, LG LCD monitor with VGA plug (dunno if that makes a difference compared to DVI output) with 4ms of delay. I play with GGPO/Supercade FBA and Shmupmame 2.0. I have a Samsung CRT I used before the LCD; would using a switch (so I don't have to plug and unplug every time I want to play something on MAME / FBA) add any additional display delay? Do VGA to DVI adapters add delay, too?
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    I thought Windows7 in Aero mode drastically improves the emulated ST situation?

    MAME is the future.
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,199
    Is this lag also on the HD mode? That'd suck. I kinda like the rebalance too.
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    Is this lag also on the HD mode? That'd suck. I kinda like the rebalance too.

    I assume you mean remixed mode, and I'm pretty sure the lag is the same.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,199
    I assume you mean remixed mode, and I'm pretty sure the lag is the same.

    Yeah Remix mode. I think it's funny the community stopped playing the latest revision after ST, HDR is a solid game too.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    HDR is a solid game too.

    Many members would disagree with this statement. Ultimately, politics killed HDR long before it came out.
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,199
    Many members would disagree with this statement. Ultimately, politics killed HDR long before it came out.

    I'd love to read what's wrong with it. I'm no ST pro.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    I'd love to read what's wrong with it. I'm no ST pro.

    Asides from politics I don't really feel like getting into right now, HDR basically took a game that everybody loved and made some changes to it that basically made certain matchups completely different. As with anything, some of the changers were good, some were bad, and nearly all of them were questioned and heavily scrutinized. It was popular for awhile until SF4 came along and pretty much removed a vast majority of the HDR playerbase, while the core members of the community stuck with ST. Eventually, low turnout and lack of organization and support for HDR lead to its current demise in the competitive scene, at least until someone bothers to step up and hold HDR tourneys if there's any interest. Currently there's been a lot of support for the ST community, so that's where the focus is now.
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,199
    Asides from politics I don't really feel like getting into right now, HDR basically took a game that everybody loved and made some changes to it that basically made certain matchups completely different. As with anything, some of the changers were good, some were bad, and nearly all of them were questioned and heavily scrutinized. It was popular for awhile until SF4 came along and pretty much removed a vast majority of the HDR playerbase, while the core members of the community stuck with ST. Eventually, low turnout and lack of organization and support for HDR lead to its current demise in the competitive scene, at least until someone bothers to step up and hold HDR tourneys if there's any interest. Currently there's been a lot of support for the ST community, so that's where the focus is now.

    Bah, I thought it was super cool.
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    I'd love to read what's wrong with it. I'm no ST pro.
    Most of the reasons aren't that great, like complaining about an easier motion or something.

    EDIT: I mean, it isn't perfect (Things like balrog not being nerfed enough, and HDR Bison Devil's Reverse, while leaving his power level mostly the same but giving him a small escape, actually makes bison feel a bit too slippery when he shouldn't be), but rejecting an improvement because it isn't perfect is...something, I suppose
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Most of the reasons aren't that great, like complaining about an easier motion or something.

    EDIT: I mean, it isn't perfect (Things like balrog not being nerfed enough, and HDR Bison Devil's Reverse, while leaving his power level mostly the same but giving him a small escape, actually makes bison feel a bit too slippery when he shouldn't be), but rejecting an improvement because it isn't perfect is...something, I suppose


    I like that term, SLIPPERY. I shall use this term from now on. I was watching Ms Kate Upton do her cat daddy dance on youtube last night, it wasn't long before things got "SLIPPERY".

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802
    Making it possible for a Gief to walk up 720 like it's nothing, giving Gat a juggle on his knee, and Ryu getting a super fast fake fireball...
    Are things that made me stop giving a fuck about HDR.
    PSN: M1X4H < click it!
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    Bah, I thought it was super cool.

    In any case, what's important now is continuing to support the competitive scene, regardless of whether it's HDR or ST (or preferably) both. I would love if everyone could attend the Capcom 25th Anniversary tournaments whenever they can, in order to show love and support. Plus it's basically a free tournament.
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