The Sonic the hedgehog thread V.7 2017 its been generations since the last good sonic game

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  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 19,099
    DF Sonic Forces comparison
    High Enough

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  • DrellyFishDrellyFish Joined: Posts: 4,544
    So I got Forces and I can give you guys some quick impressions.

    Pros: Good music, fun to play, good to see the cast back and etc, Infinte def harkens back to those edgy Sonic days LOL, fun presentation.

    Cons: Classic definitely feels shoehorned in, even the reason why he's in from a story perspective is >_>. Modern and Avatar do feel weird to control, im not sure how to explain but Modern feels heavy on the ground? and Avatar is kinda slippery, it hasn't been affecting my experience personally but yeah idk how to put my finger on it. Stages are definitely short. Most run from 2-3 minutes, and its weird because, i was playing Generatinos the week before this and some stages for modern are about 3 min if you beat them fast, but they still felt longer. Like in this one, the stages end at what feels like should be halfway or 3/4 point. There's one level in particular that is so short its like wtf, but it IS an early stage so idk, still kinda unexcusable.

    I'd also say another flaw is 3d stages having 2d sections, its not as abundant as it was in Colors, but i'd take longer full 3d levels over short hybrid ones. The game is also short, I'm about halfway through it, i'd say its about as long as Generations? The length can be extended if you wanna do all red rings, and do the little objectives to unlock Gear but overall not a long game, im about halfway done.

    I think stage design could be better too. Its very weird because if this game had Generations quality stage design i think the game would be great, but right now its just good/decent to me. Then again i heard SEGA got new blood to handle stage design in this one and im not sure why. So far as a 3d boost game i'd put it maybe in 2nd place? below Generations but above Colors. I can't really include unleashed in the mix because im literally split on that game, but if i were to judge Unleashed strictly off its day stages, i'd put that 2nd and this 3rd.

    So yeah, so far the game is cool, but i think the reason why some people who even like the game are being a bit more harsh is because they definitely know SEGA could've did better since in regards to modern gameplay they hit the bullseyes with Unleashed day stages and Gens modern stages so they set their own standard, and just barely missed it with this one. I'm gonna finish the game today and see if my overall opinon changes, but so far i like the game
  • truendymiontruendymion Beer Me! Joined: Posts: 2,254
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  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,900
    DrellyFish wrote: »
    There some levels that shine imo, stages 24 and 26 are fun to me.

    if I had to get through 25 levels just to start having fun

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  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,582
    @DrellyFish
    Did you play the Episode Shadow content?
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,004 mod
    edited November 8
    Pretty sure a good number of the negative reviews are because of Denuvo.

    EDIT: And the crashing. Apparently, it's a big enough issue that Sega's already got a patch out.
    http://www.siliconera.com/2017/11/07/pc-version-sonic-forces-gets-crash-fixing-patch/
  • DrellyFishDrellyFish Joined: Posts: 4,544
    Darksakul wrote: »
    DrellyFish wrote: »
    There some levels that shine imo, stages 24 and 26 are fun to me.

    if I had to get through 25 levels just to start having fun

    DKUR9Tk.png

    lmfao i dont mean that's when the fun starts, i just mean 24 in particular had hype to it, due to the music, and events of the levels. 26 had more interactivity due to lots of enemies. Tbh i wonder if these levels were placed out of order....there's not sense of progression in them kinda. Like you know a 1st level is easy, then middle is normal, end game is hard, it doesn't have that stuff. its just all over the place. But yeah like i said i can't recommend this game beyond only if you wanna see for yourself. I wonder what was SEGA thinking, idk if it was higher ups at SEGA or Iizuka, because more memorable fun stages, would've easily helped this game a lot. In fact people who are nitpicking are able to do so because the stages aren't engaging enough for you to overlook whats jank in the game.
    @DrellyFish
    Did you play the Episode Shadow content?

    Yeah I did. 3 short levels, i will say shadow controls the best in the game...idk if its because you know how he skates instead of runs or what. im gonna play more as him to see what it is. His DLC does also explain who Infinite is and why he's back, and the backstory is garbage. I know for a fact there's another backstory like this in like anime or somewhere but i can't think of a character. But the game would've been better off picking a fan theory.

    Sigh man though this game. I feel almost betrayed. And its weird because i can't even say SEGA sucks now or etc, because Sonic is the ONLY IP that they do goofy shit with, when they have TWO formulas that work in 3d, the Adventure 1/06 format and boost, and both of this can be done together. But it's like they play dumb. And i do blame some of this on the hostile fanbase, but also SEGA should know better. All they had to do was atleast make the stages Gens quality and that's it man. Fuck

  • Shadow AceShadow Ace The Royal Knight of the Turbulent Winds Joined: Posts: 5,173
    edited November 9
    where do I begin, im not one for long paragraphs
    I give the game a 5 out of 10, the controls are either really bad or extra sensitive because ive died on just trying to clear a jump to a platform. I like the avatar creator, lots of variety, why wasn't there a chaos boss fight? the music is really bad; only about three songs sound good and unfortunately they are the ones with singing. story plot holes; what the hell is infinite? I know eggman "created" him but what animal is he suppose to be, a skunk? I do like the post game content all of missions but it gets tiresome since this game only has 6 unique stages (nearly all the "stages" end in under 3 minutes. Episode Shadow was ok for what it was; it did its job. I advise if anyone is playing for the first time to play that then the main game since its a prequel) it could have been better, much better

    also ran into an interesting glitch, I boosted off the stage by accident during a turn just before a in-stage cutscene and apparently the model for sonic is pre-loaded once it starts since I could see me fly off the screen from the camera and then the pre-loaded sonic began to run lol. It happened in that sky sanctuary looking stage
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  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 19,099
    Yeah I was planning on at least just cancelling the Switch version and just picking up the PS4 version but the impressions from you guys and in combination from a good friend of mine who described his time with it has me deciding that I shouldn't be giving Sega money for this game even at $40. I'm sure a used copy will find it's way in a store and I'll try it then. SMH.
    High Enough

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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,051
    Sonic Team had a solid formula and engine with Generations, yet they still decided to Sega it up and break what didn't need fixing.

    At least the menus and UI look good...
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  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,900
    Nintendoes what Segadon't
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  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter The Deadliest SOB In Space Joined: Posts: 3,247
    I couldn't stop my brother from buying the game, so I got to play it on his dime.

    The game has pretty much every weakness that I thought it was going to have based on pre-release stuff, especially with the level design. They're incredibly on-rails and auto-pilot most of the time; too much of an emphasis is put on spectacle over actual gameplay, often with actual cutscenes during the level. Modern Sonic is missing quite a few moves from Generations and overall feels less fun to handle. The Avatar feels like a jankier version of Modern Sonic with even more autopilot level design. Classic Sonic feels alright, but he doesn't really need to be here. There's also a bit of minutia that bugs me here or there that I may go into later.

    From the very beginning, the story lacks any sort of emotional weight. An event that should be a major catastrophe is immediately resolved by the second level without much fanfare. Most of the supporting cast is present, but so far they haven't done much other than be talking heads in mission control. Overall, the presentation of the game does a really poor job at selling me on the fact that this is a world at war, no matter how much they try to get Colonel Mustang to tell me otherwise.

    The music is pretty neat, in a sort of cheesy Sonic Adventure kind of way.

    If you can mooch off of a friend or relative, I'd play it that way. Otherwise, just buy Super Cloudbuilt instead. Actually, just buy Super Cloudbuilt regardless.
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  • Yuri_AcTNYuri_AcTN All the best things are collectives. Joined: Posts: 1,174
    Guess I'll pass on getting Sonic Forces as well. Sheesh...
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  • DrellyFishDrellyFish Joined: Posts: 4,544
    Wanted to drop in with some updated opinions, and for anyone curious about what animal Infinite is, he's a jackal.

    But yeah, i still have my issues with the game, and after spending more time with it, i still have my gripes. The only things I think that can be fixed via patch is controls and physics. I know the 2d platforming for Avatar is whew....there's an easy platforming section in Guardian Rock(Green Hill) that i was dying on because his jumping is so stiff.

    But yeah I will say ONE thing I do like in regards to the stage length, and design is that it does make it more easier and fun to replay levels for red rings and etc, atleast imo. I know in Colors i just couldn't bother, and didnt bother in Generations either, although this could change for Generations since i've playing it again on PC.

    Still confused at what happened at SEGA, because in my head im thinking they can do better next time, but it feels weird to say that because when they've already proved with 3 games that they can pull off this modern boost sonic. and the statement "they can do better next time" is something you say when a game brings in a new concept or something, nothing here is new besides Avatar and gameplay wise he's not new, in the sense that we've had other non-Sonic playable that were a bit different.

    I just wonder how did the game regress in such a way. This isn't a case where like for the Rush games, I love Rush and dont think Rush Adventure is as good as Rush, but nor do I feel it was a step back. Its about the same, just Rush has some stuff that hits me harder. I dont feel this way about about Gens and Forces where in this there is a noticeable backwards step and a half.

    I'm still having fun replaying stages for rings for as long as that'll last me, and i've seen others say that its about the most fun thing about the game, so i guess it has that going for it. I just really wish i knew what happened at SEGA and Sonic Team. I've heard some stuff that apparently SEGA Europe and SEGA USA were against the Avatar, and that the initial game was gonna be a big focus on Avatar+Sonic which makes sense since as I said Classic is there for no reason, and shit even the fuckin Fist Bump lyrics are about Avatar and Sonic working together. But yeah i heard some business related meddlings happened. Idk if that's true or just people spreading rumors, because people say this stuff anytime a game has a misstep.

    But for you guys on the fence, I can only recommend if you are THAT curious to see how good or bad it is to you. I've actually been down about this man. Just reflecting on mainline modern 3d Sonic, none of them are "bad" they just have some type of anchor on them that stops them from being what they should be. 06 not having QA done, Unleashed having werehog and medal collecting, Colors having TOO much 2D sections to where it was intrusive, Lost World being an experiment, and I guess Generations is the outlier here, and then you have Forces which suffers from just feeling like Sega didn't care to put that full effort in. I think they figured the game would sell off the bases that structurally its Generations with create a character, not to mention the story hyping and showing off old feelings, i think they had so much faith in that stuff to sell alone that they decided to half ass it.

    Again Sonic Team isn't a trash company, they just been bonked on the head since 06 and seem to still be in a state of confusion, and these games are feeling too much like "will the fanbase like this?" instead of them just trying to make an overall good fuckin game without worrying so much about angering that vocal minority that's gonna keep on hating regardless
  • Shadow AceShadow Ace The Royal Knight of the Turbulent Winds Joined: Posts: 5,173
    the 1.01 version leads me to believe more updates and patches are planned in the future, maybe an Episode Silver or Knuckles; if sega can clean up the controls and fix bugs (mainly the homing attack and jump bugs) then the game can earn a solid 7
    I checked the current patch notes, there is support for super sonic so maybe after I compete the side missions an extra final mission will pop up
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  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Unpopular opinion to be sure, but I'm really enjoying Sonic Forces. With all the negativity surrounding it, I feared I wouldn't like the game, but to my surprise, I'm digging it.

    One of the things people get upset over was that stages appeared liner. I've spotted multiple paths as Modern Sonic, Classic Sonic as well as the Avatar. If you want those red medals, you're gonna have to explore the stages. I'm having a lot of fun replaying stages. Escaping the Death Egg as Modern Sonic in particular was a lot of fun. Despite Classic Sonic's somewhat stiff controls, he's fun, too.

    I know the custom character has gotten a tone of hate thanks to Deviant Art, but I'm having a lot of fun unlocking stuff to outfit mine with. I went with a rabbit. I know a rabbit with a bow tie was one of the rejected ideas when they were coming up with Sonic way back when. I think i might be able to recreate him. Just have to find more custom items.

    I kinda feel like I'm supposed to hate this game or think it's awful but I don't regret my purchase or time spent with it. Guess I'm one of those weirdos.
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,582
    It seems that only the Switch version of the game has a black friday deal. I wanted the PS4 version for $25.
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  • DrellyFishDrellyFish Joined: Posts: 4,544
    Unpopular opinion to be sure, but I'm really enjoying Sonic Forces. With all the negativity surrounding it, I feared I wouldn't like the game, but to my surprise, I'm digging it.

    One of the things people get upset over was that stages appeared liner. I've spotted multiple paths as Modern Sonic, Classic Sonic as well as the Avatar. If you want those red medals, you're gonna have to explore the stages. I'm having a lot of fun replaying stages. Escaping the Death Egg as Modern Sonic in particular was a lot of fun. Despite Classic Sonic's somewhat stiff controls, he's fun, too.

    I know the custom character has gotten a tone of hate thanks to Deviant Art, but I'm having a lot of fun unlocking stuff to outfit mine with. I went with a rabbit. I know a rabbit with a bow tie was one of the rejected ideas when they were coming up with Sonic way back when. I think i might be able to recreate him. Just have to find more custom items.

    I kinda feel like I'm supposed to hate this game or think it's awful but I don't regret my purchase or time spent with it. Guess I'm one of those weirdos.

    Nah despite it's issues im having fun with it too, its just underwhelming in terms of what i was expecting. Even on other forums and etc, people are calming down. They dont think the game is amazing, but they do agree its a weird and confusing backwards step. Its really not a bad game just ok. I still replay levels looking for red rings and etc. If the automation was tuned down and etc i think people would be less harsh. Also thing being the big game after 4 years since Lost World, everyone had big expecations, and I'm not saying people should lower their standards, but i understand why some people are underwhelmed.

    I still think its something hard for me recommend since idk how lenient people are with their games, but all the youtubers and etc acting like the game is just absolute dog shit are def feeding into that negativity pool on purpose. I still think at the very worse the game is "ok", "alright". But I still think its very fun for some reason. I'm even seeing people who dont like the game that much still go for 100% because despite their issues they find it fun. I think after a bit of time has passed that the fanbase atleast will have a better consensus opinion.
  • Darklightjg1Darklightjg1 Dr. SuessLight Joined: Posts: 3,805
    edited November 10
    I'll wait it out to get Forces. I'm in no rush to play it if it's just "ok" and sounds like a regression in the formula. The OC thing is still very off-putting to me and I wish it wasn't there (tbh I would've went with a Sonic clone too like Dunkey did). I'm a big fan of the series, but for once I would like Sonic Team themselves to develop a modern Sonic game that cuts out the fluff and gimmicks to give me the gameplay I enjoy the most. Generations and day-time Unleashed was the closest to this, but I want it to be completely new zones and not the revisiting of old zones again.

    ...I do not like wisps in gameplay.
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  • Shadow AceShadow Ace The Royal Knight of the Turbulent Winds Joined: Posts: 5,173
    edited November 10
    according to the sonic forces comic, infinite is suppose to be a jackal and was apart of some operation to raid eggman's base but got captured; so eggman didn't create infinite but I didnt read it any further from that. Also super sonic will apparently be patched in since his files are in the game but the model is not; so we know that some DLC is coming to the game through data mining including a rumored versus mode

    im getting S ranks for free, the struggle was real in sonic adventure 2 for A's
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,051
    Sonic Twitter still the best thing about modern Sonic.
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  • CHIEfyCHIEfy Joined: Posts: 1,162
    Sonic Team needs a completely new staff.

    It doesn't make ANY sense why we are still getting mediocre 3D Sonic games to this day.
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  • Galactica727Galactica727 Joined: Posts: 76
    Avatar is not necessary. Why put a character in there that no one cares about. It reminds me of the werehog character from sonic unleashed. No one asked for it... We just need sonic, that's it. I don't like the pacing, and I feel that the levels are too short. Sonic Team needs to retire this series now. Sega in general has been a disappointment for a while. Their big franchises are either falling apart like sonic or non-existent (VF).
    I feel very disappointed playing this game. It doesn't give me that "feel good" feeling I had from previous games, especially sonic generations, which did the 3d sonic the best IMO. The only good thing about this game is the low price, but I guess you get what you paid for.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,004 mod
    Avatar is not necessary.

    Try telling that to DeviantArt.
  • CHIEfyCHIEfy Joined: Posts: 1,162
    If this game is even moderately successful, it'll be thanks to DeviantArt.

    I am not kidding.
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  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,582
    CHIEfy wrote: »
    Sonic Team needs a completely new staff.

    It doesn't make ANY sense why we are still getting mediocre 3D Sonic games to this day.

    I think Sonic Team needs some fresh talent in their team. It feel like they are creatively bankrupt at this point and they are going through the motions with Forces. They need a break from making Sonic games.
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  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter The Deadliest SOB In Space Joined: Posts: 3,247
    CHIEfy wrote: »
    Sonic Team needs a completely new staff.

    It doesn't make ANY sense why we are still getting mediocre 3D Sonic games to this day.
    It's possible that the reason the level design is so lackluster in Forces is because the designers are new.
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  • DrellyFishDrellyFish Joined: Posts: 4,544
    CHIEfy wrote: »
    Sonic Team needs a completely new staff.

    It doesn't make ANY sense why we are still getting mediocre 3D Sonic games to this day.

    I think Sonic Team needs some fresh talent in their team. It feel like they are creatively bankrupt at this point and they are going through the motions with Forces. They need a break from making Sonic games.

    I think with Forces they either hit a wall, or it is due to them putting new dudes on the game which I dont get....the game is still fun. But something about it isn't hitting, and I think it really might just be the levels. I still can remember some stuff from Colors, and etc. But even though I'm playing Forces daily so far to do some post game, i'm still not really remembering levels if that makes sense.

    So yeah I think they hit a wall or just figured the game the game will do good off the basis of Classic is back, OC, and return of villains, because the game kinda feels like they did JUST enough to where its not bad but not great either on purpose. And some of the story events also make it seem like they were hoping marketing would carry the game.

    I still personally want them to go back to SA1/06 structure. It sucks that 06 turned out how it did, because all SEGA needed to do was delay the game so the devs can finish doing their fuckin QA. I just don't get how corporate heads can sit and actually give an order to release a game regardless of its polished or not. I wonder if SEGA is scared to go back to that structure due to 06.

    I love this franchise, but I'm not sure whats going on with Sonic Team. Idk if its just Iizuka himself, the whole team, or what. The solution i see a lot of people saying are to get rid of boost, saying its hard to make good levels based around boost mechanic
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter The Deadliest SOB In Space Joined: Posts: 3,247
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  • JoshkazJoshkaz Princess Luna is my Waifu Joined: Posts: 15,340
    ST needs to just let Sonic rest for like 5 years.

    Sega been going ham in other series lately. They don't need to pump out a new sonic every other year to make ends meet.
    "You embarrass me," said Shadow, smiling. Then Shadow took his penis out and picked Cream up. "Let me charge up for a super ejaculation!" Shadow laid Cream down on the ground and then took his penis with him, which was already huge and shaking with sex energy, and found Cream's Piggy Bank, which was full of coins and dollars and things to save up for money, so she could buy what she wanted when she had enough inside it. Shadow took it and using his muscular penis, smashed a hole right through the piggy bank so now it was sitting on top of his penis like a hat. Shadow's penis looked like it belonged in a fashion show.
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,582
    Joshkaz wrote: »
    ST needs to just let Sonic rest for like 5 years.

    Sega been going ham in other series lately. They don't need to pump out a new sonic every other year to make ends meet.

    ST already let Sonic rest at least on their end. Forces comes four years after Lost World.
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  • dialupsuckydialupsucky FINAL SHOWDOWN Joined: Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I havnt played it, so take this with a grain of salt, but watching someone else play through the game, personally I kinda just felt like you know what. The game is for kids. What are you gonna do? Its not a game aimed at adults. Its a game for little kids, people are dressing up their characters as little furries. Most adults probably dont give a fuck about that stuff. So its hard for me to even be to harsh on it because its so blatantly obvious that again the same thing I kept repeating to myself while watching someone do a play through of this game. Its not meant for me for young daddy mode dudes like me. Which is kinda sad but meh~ thats life I guess

    Maybe one day theyll make a sonic adventure 3 or something. I still think those first 2 games all though kinda weird and wonky in their own way. Were still fun and I dont regret playing them.
  • DrellyFishDrellyFish Joined: Posts: 4,544
    I havnt played it, so take this with a grain of salt, but watching someone else play through the game, personally I kinda just felt like you know what. The game is for kids. What are you gonna do? Its not a game aimed at adults. Its a game for little kids, people are dressing up their characters as little furries. Most adults probably dont give a fuck about that stuff. So its hard for me to even be to harsh on it because its so blatantly obvious that again the same thing I kept repeating to myself while watching someone do a play through of this game. Its not meant for me for young daddy mode dudes like me. Which is kinda sad but meh~ thats life I guess

    Maybe one day theyll make a sonic adventure 3 or something. I still think those first 2 games all though kinda weird and wonky in their own way. Were still fun and I dont regret playing them.

    This is actually a fair way to put it actually. I could see kids having loads of fun with this, because as someone who is older and views games a little more critically we'd find more faults in it. It's also just weird since a lot of the marketing revolved around Sonic's friends being back as well as Chaos, and I dont think kids know Silver, the Chaotix, and Chaos. But yeah this is a fair way to put it tbh.

    Just wonder how the game will sell. Idk if theres been tv ads or etc for it
  • dialupsuckydialupsucky FINAL SHOWDOWN Joined: Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    wasnt saying it to imply it doesnt have to be "good" it was to imply it being nonsensical, stupid, and weird if you will. It doesnt have to be 'deep' or complicated mechanic wise either. Like say the examples of this game of bad guys dont even attack you half the time. Well the game is for kids there. Is that pretty stupid.. ya it is.. but you know what. A kid probably just wants to go fast, play as his little furry dude and feel like he is one of sonics friends. So what are you gonna do. Maybe logically we think a bad guy should attack us, but for this game, maybe just certain bad guys are "obstacles" for you to run fast through I dunno. Again watching the game I was just like you know what this game isnt meant for me. It clearly had a different audience in mind, ya I know there are some wonky physics and other things. And im not saying they arent bad. But in general that was my vibe i had for the game.

  • DrellyFishDrellyFish Joined: Posts: 4,544
    The "it's for kids, it doesn't have to be good" argument is one of my most hated talking points for media, because it implies that kids aren't worthy of quality products.

    Its not saying that, just some of the design choices make the game very easy to the point where it seems its geared more towards younger audience. Think of how when you were a kid, there may have been some games that were legit shitty that you enjoyed, because you were looking for nothing more than to be entertained, as opposed to now you look at controls, story, and etc. I think he's just saying that kids would receive this better than we would, and i think that can be said for other games too.

    But Sonic has always been geared at kids so....and there's people who liked Adventure games or etc as kids, but would probably think they are shitty now if they played them because they will see whatever noticeable flaws are there