SFxT General Discussion #3 - Still Alive

FlyingVe · February 18

Your combo sucks... Just sayin. She does more than that off cMK.

Bryan's alpha is pretty slow. It probably belongs in with the worst. The fact that it wall bounces means absolutely nothing.

Ryu's is good, but not one if the best. It just doesn't work as reliably as you'd want it too. It's pretty much your average AC... Which is pretty darned good.

zUkUu · February 18

FrostyAU said:

FlyingVe said:

Actually, lets talk alpha counters a bit:

Best:
Alisa
Chun
Dudley

Worst:
Marduk
Nina
Xiaoyu
Raven

I'm sure I'm fioferting some. But the best are both fast and set up the characters to enforce their game plans.

The bad ones don't even work.

Bryan's Alpha counter wall bounces lol, or at least it did pre - 2013. You definitely shouldn't forget that one.

Ryu's Alpha is awesome as well, it gives him a full screen to work with, decent damage and invulnerability.

zUkUu said:
Nina's c.mk has more reach than Guile's Knuckle Punch. It's ridiculous. I swear, she can outreach Dhalsim lol. 100 bucks that she has the longest (cancelable) c.mk of the cast.
Her low forward is pretty godlike, and I proved earlier up the page, you can get 391 damage off her low forward without burning a bar.

Not sure about longest cancelable, it's definitely not the longest, Guile's reaches further, but it's definitely Ryu level for a cancellable low forward.

I think Guile's c.mk is vastly overrated. I main him and run often in situations where I find myself outreached by a good amount of other normals, including hers.

FrostyAU · February 18

FlyingVe said:

FrostyAU wrote: »

FlyingVe said: 
Nina is always almost top tier... But not quite. 

 
 

 
Too man characters can give her trouble, and her defense is among the worst in the game. 
 
 
Her defense isn't that bad... 
She has strong footsie tools which is half the battle, her wakeup isn't phenomenal but she has a really solid CADC backdash, a strong anti - air and can command dash in through fireball pressure. 
I'd hardly say her defense is some of the worst in the game.

She can command dash through full screen fireballs or bad fireballs. It'll get her hit for any character with a good one.

Her backdash is stuff is good, but not amazing, and unlike other characters it puts her out if position.

Her AA is very good, but nowhere near as infallible as law or kens.

Her wake up is embarrassing. Only strong than the likes of vega, and her AC is one of the worst in the game.

Her footsie tools are very strong, better than most of the cast, but can't quite hold up to some of the real monsters with her sMK nerf. What sets her apart is her damage.

Also, Kaz has the best cMK for my money.

You're picking hairs with a lot of this, her footsie tools are enough that her defense is far from the worst, same with her anti - air options. I still fail to see how she has some of the worst defense in the game just because her alpha is bad.

Kaz might have a good low - forward, but Nina's has a shit ton of range and converts into A LOT of damage (391 with my best combo), and that's without burning a bar.

The st. MK nerf is hardly a killer with everything else she has going for her in the footsie department.

I play a relatively safe, defensive Nina as I'm not a rushdown player and I get by fine just based on her normals and massive punishes and when I choose to apply pressure she has some of the best.

FrostyAU · February 18

I think Guile's c.mk is vastly overrated. I main him and run often in situations where I find myself outreached by a good amount of other normals, including hers.

I main Guile and I think the range on his low forward, with the cancel into overhead and the boost into st. roundhouse / launch is one of the best things about him.

It's so easy to poke someone with it and launch into your partner for big damage, it's just a really outstanding poke.

I find Guile's normals give him a pretty easy time in the footsie department as he has something for everything, RSK, cl fierce xx boom is a solid block string that punishes attempts to go low or throw him, you can also launch off it. You have his godlike st. fierce which anti - airs so well and is just great for punishes and launches. Massive range on his low forward and st. roundhouse and a fast, mashable short with good range.

FrostyAU · February 18

FlyingVe said:

Your combo sucks... Just sayin. She does more than that off cMK.

Write out a metreless, solo combo that does more off a low forward than 391, not st. strong links first, I'm talking low forward as the hit confirm.

Links · February 18

FrostyAU wrote: »
I play a relatively safe, defensive Nina as I'm not a rushdown player and I get by fine just based on her normals and massive punishes and when I choose to apply pressure she has some of the best.

Well, "bad" as referring to her defense is a relative descriptor. Her defense is certainly not the worst ever. She has a reversal (which requires meter) and great footsie tools, and a good anti-air. It's just, when you get a hit on her, you can keep up the momentum pretty easily compared to some other characters, IMO.

zUkUu · February 18

FrostyAU said:

I think Guile's c.mk is vastly overrated. I main him and run often in situations where I find myself outreached by a good amount of other normals, including hers.

I main Guile and I think the range on his low forward, with the cancel into overhead and the boost into st. roundhouse / launch is one of the best things about him.

It's so easy to poke someone with it and launch into your partner for big damage, it's just a really outstanding poke.

I find Guile's normals give him a pretty easy time in the footsie department as he has something for everything, RSK, cl fierce xx boom is a solid block string that punishes attempts to go low or throw him, you can also launch off it. You have his godlike st. fierce which anti - airs so well and is just great for punishes and launches. Massive range on his low forward and st. roundhouse and a fast, mashable short with good range.

I don't say it's bad, I say it's not the best. It's actually punishable on block by a few characters, even from a distance.

Sadly, c.hp is rather bad in this incarnation, in particular if you compare it to 90% of the cast's anti air abilities.

FrostyAU · February 18

zUkUu said:

FrostyAU said:

I think Guile's c.mk is vastly overrated. I main him and run often in situations where I find myself outreached by a good amount of other normals, including hers.

I main Guile and I think the range on his low forward, with the cancel into overhead and the boost into st. roundhouse / launch is one of the best things about him.

It's so easy to poke someone with it and launch into your partner for big damage, it's just a really outstanding poke.

I find Guile's normals give him a pretty easy time in the footsie department as he has something for everything, RSK, cl fierce xx boom is a solid block string that punishes attempts to go low or throw him, you can also launch off it. You have his godlike st. fierce which anti - airs so well and is just great for punishes and launches. Massive range on his low forward and st. roundhouse and a fast, mashable short with good range.

I don't say it's bad, I say it's not the best. It's actually punishable on block by a few characters, even from a distance.

Sadly, c.hp is rather bad in this incarnation, in particular if you compare it to 90% of the cast's anti air abilities.

cr. HP could be better, st. HP is a very effective anti - air, especially against the Tekken guys, it catches most of their attempts to jump over boom pretty easily. It's great at keeping out characters like Law and Lars.

cr. HP still has it's uses in certain match ups, it's better for anti - airing shotos when you don't have down charge for lk. flash.

Mostly I use air - throw for anti - air since the patch, it has become by go to option as it's so good now, I don't do it on reaction so much as get reads on when they're going to jump and go for it and I've had a lot of success with it so far.

FrostyAU · February 18

Links said:

FrostyAU wrote: »
I play a relatively safe, defensive Nina as I'm not a rushdown player and I get by fine just based on her normals and massive punishes and when I choose to apply pressure she has some of the best.

Well, "bad" as referring to her defense is a relative descriptor. Her defense is certainly not the worst ever. She has a reversal (which requires meter) and great footsie tools, and a good anti-air. It's just, when you get a hit on her, you can keep up the momentum pretty easily compared to some other characters, IMO.

That I can buy, claims of her having some of the worst defense in the game I can't.

The Big Boss · February 18

FlyingVe said:

Your combo sucks... Just sayin. She does more than that off cMK.

Bryan's alpha is pretty slow. It probably belongs in with the worst. The fact that it wall bounces means absolutely nothing.

Ryu's is good, but not one if the best. It just doesn't work as reliably as you'd want it too. It's pretty much your average AC... Which is pretty darned good.

Are you kidding me? The fact that it wall bounces makes it great.

echelonNYK · February 18

Is it just me or is the matchup between Jack-X and Cammy clearly in Jack's favor. I thought a character like Cammy would destroy the big guy, but he has the ability to shut her down :)

FullMetalRoss · February 18

Her AC misses everything all the time.

ACs that are good (ones that work against jumpins)

ACs that are bad (ones that don't work against jumpins)

Acs that are hella bad (ones that don't work against jumpins and are to slow to work against grounded moves too) - Ninas is like right on the edge of this, hella normals just make this not work.

FlyingVe · February 18

Nina:

cMK>HK geyser> SS > cHP > HK geyser> ivory cutter.

Also gives you the ivory cutter KD, which is way better than arm break kd. I would only use arm snaps for triggering gems.

FlyingVe · February 18

The Big Boss wrote: »

FlyingVe said: 
Your combo sucks... Just sayin. She does more than that off cMK. 

 
 

 
Bryan's alpha is pretty slow. It probably belongs in with the worst. The fact that it wall bounces means absolutely nothing. 

 
 

 
Ryu's is good, but not one if the best. It just doesn't work as reliably as you'd want it too. It's pretty much your average AC... Which is pretty darned good. 
 
 
Are you kidding me? The fact that it wall bounces makes it great.

Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't see how that gains Bryan anything. In 2012 it was GDLK because it gave you easy combos. I guess it leaves them next tou you for wake up games, but that would be more meaningful with a character that had better oki. With Bryan I would much rather be midrange.

guy986 · February 18

Rufus alpha counter is pretty bad. It has 2 hits, 30/60. But the first hit has shitty range most of the time you only get one hit 60.

On top of that its awful against multihitting moves. It'll literally trade with chun's lightning kick half the time. It loses to multihit move with invulnerability like Akuma and Ken's SRK every time.

DarthPariah · February 18

FlyingVe said:

Nina:

cMK>HK geyser> SS > cHP > HK geyser> ivory cutter.

Also gives you the ivory cutter KD, which is way better than arm break kd. I would only use arm snaps for triggering gems.

or resets

FullMetalRoss · February 18

Don't you get a free Hard tag off Bryan's AC though, that is nice. Also doe sit retain armor I forget? IT does work as an AC against stuff that hits from further away than other stuff does so thats nice. Id say its in the middle category of bad.

Also the Highest Damage Nina Combo I have is (I forget I think it does 414 off cr.mk?)

Cr.mk xx hk geyser, Skull cutter +hp, cr.hp xx skull Cutter +hp, Cr.hp xx blond Bomb... Can cancel the cr.hp into charge, thought Im not sure then if it does more or less than Flying Ve

Saitsu · February 18

FullMetalRoss said:

Don't you get a free Hard tag off Bryan's AC though, that is nice. Also doe sit retain armor I forget? IT does work as an AC against stuff that hits from further away than other stuff does so thats nice. Id say its in the middle category of bad.

Also the Highest Damage Nina Combo I have is (I forget I think it does 414 off cr.mk?)

Cr.mk xx hk geyser, Skull cutter +hp, cr.hp xx skull Cutter +hp, Cr.hp xx blond Bomb... Can cancel the cr.hp into charge, thought Im not sure then if it does more or less than Flying Ve

First thing, almost every AC in the game grants a free hard tag due to the Hard KD they provide. That's why Bryan's wall bounce doesn't amount to much.

And that does do more damage, if only slightly. The good thing about Nina is she can make very subtle changes to her combos for a lot of varied results at the end, whether for damage, tag cancels, hard tags, resets, and even Super/Cross Arts and Pandora. And they'll all hit really hard.

FrostyAU · February 18

On the better Alpha Counters, Abel definitely has one of them. High damage, massive knockback, works on jump ins, comes out quick...

Can't really fault it.

FlyingVe · February 18

FullMetalRoss wrote: »

Don't you get a free Hard tag off Bryan's AC though, that is nice. Also doe sit retain armor I forget? IT does work as an AC against stuff that hits from further away than other stuff does so thats nice. Id say its in the middle category of bad. 
 
Also the Highest Damage Nina Combo I have is (I forget I think it does 414 off cr.mk?) 
 
Cr.mk xx hk geyser, Skull cutter +hp, cr.hp xx skull Cutter +hp, Cr.hp xx blond Bomb... Can cancel the cr.hp into charge, thought Im not sure then if it does more or less than Flying Ve

You get a free hard tag off most ACs... Except Marduk. Good point about the range though. Unfortunately, it's slow speed gets the better of it at range. It's not an awful AC, just a below average one.

You BnB does a bit more damage, but you lose the ivory cutter KD. And you want that ivory cutter KD.

FlyingVe · February 18

DarthPariah wrote: »

FlyingVe said: 
Nina:cMK>HK geyser> SS > cHP > HK geyser> ivory cutter.Also gives you the ivory cutter KD, which is way better than arm break kd. I would only use arm snaps for triggering gems.or resets

Arm break restand is weaker than the ivory cutter KD. So I'd only use it to screw with people (don't undervalue screwing with people though).

FrostyAU · February 18

FullMetalRoss said:

Don't you get a free Hard tag off Bryan's AC though, that is nice. Also doe sit retain armor I forget? IT does work as an AC against stuff that hits from further away than other stuff does so thats nice. Id say its in the middle category of bad.

Also the Highest Damage Nina Combo I have is (I forget I think it does 414 off cr.mk?)

Cr.mk xx hk geyser, Skull cutter +hp, cr.hp xx skull Cutter +hp, Cr.hp xx blond Bomb... Can cancel the cr.hp into charge, thought Im not sure then if it does more or less than Flying Ve

It does 408 damage, I just tested it, the knockdown situation isn't as good though.

The combo Ve linked was doing 390. One less damage than the one I made with a pretty good knockdown situation.

Links · February 18

Why have I not been playing Ken? He seems godlike, even in 2012. And while we're talking about ACs, Ken's is legit. Works well against jump-ins and everything else. Also, he just works well with pretty much everyone. Ken x Ogre (Maximilian's old team, incidentally) is hella fun. Can't wait to try 2013 Ken.

FrostyAU · February 18

So, I'd rather do my combo than Ve's "optimal," one given it's less buttons, 1 more damage and gives you a kd set up unlike the bombshell ending.

FlyingVe · February 18

FrostyAU wrote: »

On the better Alpha Counters, Abel definitely has one of them. High damage, massive knockback, works on jump ins, comes out quick... 
Can't really fault it.

It does blow them too far away to really go after them. But yeah, it's pretty good. A big upgrade from his old, worst AC ever.

FlyingVe · February 18

FrostyAU wrote: »

FullMetalRoss said: 
Don't you get a free Hard tag off Bryan's AC though, that is nice. Also doe sit retain armor I forget? IT does work as an AC against stuff that hits from further away than other stuff does so thats nice. Id say its in the middle category of bad. 
 
Also the Highest Damage Nina Combo I have is (I forget I think it does 414 off cr.mk?) 
 
Cr.mk xx hk geyser, Skull cutter +hp, cr.hp xx skull Cutter +hp, Cr.hp xx blond Bomb... Can cancel the cr.hp into charge, thought Im not sure then if it does more or less than Flying Ve 

 

 

 
It does 408 damage, I just tested it, the knockdown situation isn't as good though. 
The combo Ve linked was doing 390. One less damage than the one I made with a pretty good knockdown situation.

My combo has greater corner carry and ends with an ivory cutter KD and has tag options.

That's 50 times better than 20 damage.

Saitsu · February 18

Are we really arguing about Nina combos when she's built so that a player can use any variation they so desire? Unless you're really lazy the combos will only be at most 20 points off of each other. Use what you want.

FrostyAU · February 18

FlyingVe said:

FrostyAU wrote: »

FullMetalRoss said: 
Don't you get a free Hard tag off Bryan's AC though, that is nice. Also doe sit retain armor I forget? IT does work as an AC against stuff that hits from further away than other stuff does so thats nice. Id say its in the middle category of bad. 
 
Also the Highest Damage Nina Combo I have is (I forget I think it does 414 off cr.mk?) 
 
Cr.mk xx hk geyser, Skull cutter +hp, cr.hp xx skull Cutter +hp, Cr.hp xx blond Bomb... Can cancel the cr.hp into charge, thought Im not sure then if it does more or less than Flying Ve 

 

 

 
It does 408 damage, I just tested it, the knockdown situation isn't as good though. 
The combo Ve linked was doing 390. One less damage than the one I made with a pretty good knockdown situation.

My combo has greater corner carry and ends with an ivory cutter KD and has tag options.

That's 50 times better than 20 damage.

The combo you were doing with the ivory cutter ending was better than the blonde bombshell one which does a little more damage, the one I was doing with the chain grab after the ivory cutter does 1 more damage, gives less carry (barely due to the roundhouse dash) but has a very good hard HD set up afterwards. It also does 454 off a jump in, so it works well off scaling.

The longer combo is better for resetting the juggle counter with a switch cancel and comboing off the ivory cutter ground bounce, but that's spending metre, you can do lots of crazy set ups with Nina and tag cancel due to all of the ideal juggle states she puts them in.

FlyingVe · February 18

Saitsu wrote: »

Are we really arguing about Nina combos when she's built so that a player can use any variation they so desire? Unless you're really lazy the combos will only be at most 20 points off of each other. Use what you want.

We're arguing that someone thinks 20 damage is worth forgoing the ivory cutter KD.

Which is dumb... Nina should always end her combos with cutter unless that 20 damage will kill.

FrostyAU · February 18

FlyingVe said:

Saitsu wrote: »

Are we really arguing about Nina combos when she's built so that a player can use any variation they so desire? Unless you're really lazy the combos will only be at most 20 points off of each other. Use what you want.

We're arguing that someone thinks 20 damage is worth forgoing the ivory cutter KD.

Which is dumb... Nina should always end her combos with cutter unless that 20 damage will kill.

I'd rather end on the cutter than the blonde bomb for the difference of 18 damage, I wouldn't rather end on the cutter than the arm - break hard KD when it scales better and is easy as shit to do leading to less execution errors in match situations.

FullMetalRoss · February 18

What are the best setups after Ivory Cutter except for Charge? Also can you not quick tech ivory cutter? Also The blond bomb ending always pushes them near the corner which is pretty awesome, and its not like you don't get different mixups after its ending.

I think its useful to end Nina combos in a bunch of different ways, just due to the kind of setups you can get. For instance Ending combos early into a Ivory cutter, Dashing grab 1-hit Ender can lead to some interesting reset situations as well even though you lose out on 50 damage.

The one combo I don't know about is the geyser, cr.hp xx skull cutter, Cr.hp xx skull cutter, ivory cutter, what are the damage numbers on that, Its a pretty finnicky combo but I figure damage should be right in line with eveyrthing else and sets up the Ivory cutter knockdown.

Also I wasn't arguing anything. I was just talking about damage.

Saitsu · February 18

You can't quick tech IC OR BB, but the IC has the added ground bounce for extra untech time.

As for the one you stated, it's her most optimal IC combo...but you add a grand total of 12 damage to your combo (give or take depending on your starter). Considering how much of a pain it is to land, it isn't worth it anymore. It was worth it more prepatch due to the bigger discrepancy in damage.

FlyingVe · February 18

You can also raw tag after cutter, and can set up any mixup you want.

Arm break KD just gives you a simple KD. Not bad, but not great.

It's the same reason Hwo ends with HH and Lili with sunflower. Slightly less damage, much better KD.

FrostyAU · February 18

FullMetalRoss said:

What are the best setups after Ivory Cutter except for Charge? Also can you not quick tech ivory cutter? Also The blond bomb ending always pushes them near the corner which is pretty awesome, and its not like you don't get different mixups after its ending.

I think its useful to end Nina combos in a bunch of different ways, just due to the kind of setups you can get. For instance Ending combos early into a Ivory cutter, Dashing grab 1-hit Ender can lead to some interesting reset situations as well even though you lose out on 50 damage.

The one combo I don't know about is the geyser, cr.hp xx skull cutter, Cr.hp xx skull cutter, ivory cutter, what are the damage numbers on that, Its a pretty finnicky combo but I figure damage should be right in line with eveyrthing else and sets up the Ivory cutter knockdown.

Also I wasn't arguing anything. I was just talking about damage.

The combo I usually use is low forward xx roundhouse geyser, ivory cutter, roundhouse command dash into 3 hit chain grab. It does 391 damage on it's own. After it I usually charged because it leaves the back - dash and throw option open if they roll, as well as the other CADC options. If I'm fairly certain they wont roll, as it's a hard KD and they can't tech it I have a funky fake cross up where I safejump over them using j. fierce and punish a whiffed DP or go low and attempt to restart the combo.

Links · February 18

Um, don't want to be that guy, but this is GENERAL discussion. Although I don't mind the Nina stuff, it's interesting and all.

I'm thinking I'll order my new fight stick today. Getting a Qanba most likely, but I'm having this dilemma about whether it would be worth it to buy a dual-modded stick like that, or to just buy a cheaper one and mod it myself later.

FullMetalRoss · February 18

Yeah Nina lots of options! I didn't realize you had enough time to raw tag and setup a mixup off cutter thats pretty cool. I'll have to remember that.

So since we are still talking about Nina, how good are you guys at hit checking cr.mk it looks as if you could almost do it at least int mk geyser but I don't know maybe its just my imagination. It reminds me sort of, of hit checking necro st.strong into super but maybe a tighter cancel window? I feel like there are plenty of normals in this game where the cancel window is actually late enough you can hit check the cancel

Also we should talk about Ogre cause he is cool but not many people play him. Uryo has an interesting ogre but doesn't do anything too cool aside from a new combo.

Links · February 18

FullMetalRoss said:
Also we should talk about Ogre cause he is cool but not many people play him. Uryo has an interesting ogre but doesn't do anything too cool aside from a new combo.

Ogre is a rushdown character who has a surprisingly good neutral game. I enjoy playing him a lot. He's solid, but he deals good damage, has high-lows, and can easily score hard knockdowns for pressure. His only problem is that he's free to grabs on wakeup and is easy to safe-jump. Easily A tier in 2013 IMO. I play Poison X Ogre and Ken X Ogre currently and have been playing the Poison team since May-ish. I used to run Ogre on point sometimes as well.

Links said:
I'm thinking I'll order my new fight stick today. Getting a Qanba most likely, but I'm having this dilemma about whether it would be worth it to buy a dual-modded stick like that, or to just buy a cheaper one and mod it myself later.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? (Just in case it got missed due to my ninja-ing FullMetalRoss.) :D

DarthPariah · February 18

somewhere a character discussion thread is weeping.

:((

FullMetalRoss · February 18

I like the qanba or the eightarc. Plus dualmodding yourself isn't hard but you probably wont like your first results as much as just buying one. But if you want to learn to do your own thing learning is never bad!

I think the thing that is interesting bout Ogre is that really his overhead isn't that good.. also his combos take lots of execution for only a bit of damage.... but his normals are crazy and all have really good uses. Plus the changes to his dash make cadc setups pretty crazy. I think he makes decent combo filler as a last character and his end combos are pretty great. I wish his wakeup game was a little less crappy, but then maybe it would be too good?

One thing I found is that cr.lk can link to st.mp from even max range and that links to cr.mk, into Owl hunt for really good damage. and the pressure you get from Cr.lk, st.mp is a bit better than the cr.lk,cr.mk chain imo.

Saitsu · February 18

DarthPariah said:

somewhere a character discussion thread is weeping.
:((

Why? Nina combos have already been discussed to death in her forums.

DarthPariah · February 18

and here we are discussing them here.

FullMetalRoss · February 18

Too hard to find character discussion forums. Plus like 10 people post in here. Plus Plus its better to get knowledgeable people all talking in 1 thread then talking in like 15 for a game that only has 25 players total. heh.

Infil · February 18

Abel's new AC is better than his old one?

I thought the old one allowed him to do full punishes on certain laggy moves for 1 bar (instead of 2) and that it was almost too good?

FrostyAU · February 18

I'm no expert on Ogre.

I can tell you a fair bit about a lot of characters though, I main Guile / Kuma but play Nina, Zangief, Abel and can use others.

nappydude · February 18

lol yea they have.....

Yes u can hard tag after the IC, probably cant set up anything but def safe hard tag.....

In footsies HK geyser in punishable even the lk geyser is, also lp SS after a spaced cr.mk can get reversal

Guile Flash Kick hits all of them spaced or not tho, when u play someone who knows her u will spot do those stuff in the future.... Wat i usually do now is punish with cr.lk xx hk geyser, and i started using cr.mk xx lp BB, lol its not punishable and the block stun is very long... U get a spaced cross up and all of ur normals can reach, but its not +3 so you can get reversal if u try to poke afterwards.

CrimsonChild · February 18

I don't get why you would raw tag after ivory cutter when you could just replace the ivory cutter with a launcher and get a free mixup with your incoming character.

Saitsu · February 18

DarthPariah said:

and here we are discussing them here.

Because most people in this thread don't go to her character forums. I'm guessing you want people to read over there rather than discuss them at length here.

FlyingVe · February 18

Infil wrote: »

Abel's new AC is better than his old one? 
 
I thought the old one allowed him to do full punishes on certain laggy moves for 1 bar (instead of 2) and that it was almost too good?

It could punish certain laggy moves, but would get him punished in all other situations. Meaning his alpha was useless most times.

DarthPariah · February 18

i dont care where they are discussed. i was just making a comment.

LordWilliam1234 · February 18

Played some SF4 with a friend a little while ago...I still like SF4, but after playing it more I can still say with confidence that I like SF X TK more. I just feel that you can actually deal with and punish "randomness" more in this game. Random DP? Baiting and punishing that will only net you 200~ damage barring ultra combos (which you only get like once a round). In this game you can get 400~ damage on average for punishing that. Random tatsus? I suppose there's ultra but on average you won't be getting much of a punish. In this game you can usually get a full punish combo depending on the character. Jab jab cross-up, rinse repeat? I don't see you being able to really punish that. In this game you can generally insert a reversal due to the lack of guardstun on jumping attacks, and of course we have raw launcher. And we also have alpha counters, which while we can't combo off of them anymore, they're still good. And of course, we have anti-airs. I don't think you can get proper punishes with anti-airs in SF4 with the exception of a few characters, and even then you usually need Ultra to get any significant damage. In this game, you have your characters that have anti-airs that they can combo off of, and of course there's the universal counter-hit knockdown that you can get a full combo.

Ultimately I just feel that the SF X TK engine allows you to deal with stuff much better than in SF4. It's more about actually fighting rather than a bunch of guessing games. I have a bit of a biased opinion, since SF X TK is currently my favorite fighting game, but this is pretty much how I feel. I still like SF4 overall though.

SFxT General Discussion #3 - Still Alive

Comments