The SF2 Hyper Fighting Thread

CrayfishCrayfish Oro of the FGCJoined: Posts: 807
Street Fighter 2 Hyper Masters Tournament no.1 :china:
*Western Atlantic Bracket (USA, Canada, South Americas, West Indies etc..)
16 man Double Elimination Tournament.
*East Atlantic Bracket (Europe, Africa etc)
8 man Double Elimination Tournament.

BRACKETS Basic Seeding with Area Grouping + Random Draw
The champion of each will play for overall 'Western Hemisphere Online Champion':

*CLICK HERE TO SEE BRACKETS*

MATCH VIDEOS:
US Bracket - last 4 - True Old School vs Decoy:


Games will be best of 5.
Matches can be played using:
Supercade
GGPO
nFBA (Scroll down this first post for info on how to play using nFBA)
XBox360 SF2HF
2DFighter.com
You can also play your matches using HSF2 with HF characters only, Speed 1. This will enable bug free play on GGPO.
NO AUTO-FIRE
The Beginners guide to: 2DF | GGPO | Kaillera | MAME | ZSNES | Port Forwarding
Where possible it would be nice to play the matches on Supercade / 2DFighter.com since GGPO SF2HF is very 'buggy' and 'desyncy', and whatismore with 2DF the replays are saved so ill capture and put the best ones up on youtube!
* Supercade stores your replays in your 'My documents' folder. Send them to me!!


ENTRANTS (click on the name of you competitor for his profile page):
SRK name (click for User Profile) - Location- 2DF / GGPO handle

WEST ATLANTIC (USA, Canada, South Americas, West Indies etc):

Battosai (USA -San Jose CA)
biscuitchef (USA - ???) biscuitchef
Decoy (USA -New Jersey) Real Decoy
FiForce (USA -NY) FiForce
JED07 (USA - Brantford ON) JED07
mr.hadoken (USA Detroit) The Punisher - 2DF / mrhadoken01
Old Mastah (USA - ??) Old Mastah
Poda (USA - ??) Poda
Pup (USA -Texas) Pup
Silks (USA - ??) Silks
TarkanX (USA - Minnesota) TarkanX
True_Old_School (USA - L.A) True_Old_School
ultracombo (USA - Oakland ) ultracombo
vegetabroly (USA -Texas) Vegeta
Wolf_1 (USA - South Cali) FrankDuxDimMak



EAST ATLANTIC (Europe, North Africa, Near East etc):

Adoket (Finland) Paskis
asociale (ITA) asociale
Crayfish (UK) Crayfish
fiol (ITA) fiol
Serpico (UK) Serpico
scoryu (Turkey) scoryu
The Dude (Germany) The Dude
Wolmar (FR) Wolmar



If you have IRC, here is a great place to meet for matches: [URL="irc://irc.quakenet.org/ggpo"]irc://irc.quakenet.org/ggpo[/URL]



Here we've trying to consolidate every resource available for those who want to learn and promote Hyper Fighting.


HF HITBOX DISPLAY HACK:
SRK member felineki has reated a hack for SF2Tj that allows you to view the hitboxes. This is a very handy tool that was previously only possible via dipswitch config. Download here:
http://felineki.fileave.com/st2j_hitbox.zip


MASTER CHENG'S HITBOX PICTURES:
Hosting courtesy of NZism/Alphaism, thanks to fluxcore for saving.

Chun Li
Guile
Ken
Ryu
Zangief


ONLINE PLAY.
Come play SF2 HF online with us.
simply visit: Supercade
and follow the instructions. This is nFBA netplay but with an automated frontend, game lobby-chat room, region display, friends lists, replay archives and much more besides. Get over there right away!!


or there is still the older method:
download the 'nFBA' netplay emulator here:
kaillera real estate apartment for at movsq.net
While your there, also download the Okai recorder (this allows you to record matches).
*To use the Oaki recorder you also need to have the Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable Package instaled:
Download details: Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable Package (x86)
When you connect to an online game check the 'record matches' box:
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/2429/oakicheckboxsz7.jpg
before U check the 'ready' box. When U finish the set, the tiny compressed '.krec' replay files appear in the 'records' folder.
-
Then connect to the '#srkkaillera' channel on mIRC to meet and arange matches:
SRK Kaillera channel (for P2P primarily): #srkkaillera @ EFnet
Im on there along with other HF players like 'LeRaldo'. Leave a message with your online handles in the thread & send me the .krec replay files from your best matches. I'll post them on the Hyper Fighting youtube channel:
YouTube - Crayfis's Channel

#srkkaillera SF2 HF PLAYER HANDLES *(...) denotes SRK handle 'if different':
Brian Feldstein
complexz
Crayfish
dogbery
domino
GODtier (Oski H)
Kenz (TheRealO.GKen)
LeRaldo
madpossum (mad possum)
metro (metrock1)
MGear ( _snake_)
MOJOjojo / SuperGODtier (Decoy)
neR (CaliAgent)

LEARNING RESOURCES.
'Hyper Fighting Dizzy System, Charr guides & strategies'
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
Goldmine of SF2-HF expert info, strategies, tactics, combos selected from news groups and forums. Download this before you do anything else...

'Street Fighter 2 Hyper Fighting - Instructional' Youtube playlist:
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
Contains many video's like Decoy's fantastic, Hyper Fighting Blanka tutorial &
StuBor9s' incredibleZangief combo vids.

R | C - Mastercheng's fantastic hitbox project:
http://www.mastercheng.com/games/sf2t/index.html

MATCHVIDS.
'Street Fighter 2 Hyper Fighting - Great Matches'
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
Too much great stuff to mention. Continualy updated.

HISTORICAL & OTHER RESOURCES.
NKI's SF2 resources translated from the T.Akiba supersite:
http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html

The Sunnyvale Golfland article
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/328/hfguidebookp158golflandbn5.jpg
& the Tomo Ohira interview
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1613/hfguidebookp159tomosmlqy5.jpg
both from the GamePro HF Guidebook

The Tomo Ohira thread:
No vids of US SF's 'Golden Era' & best_ever player!?

THE EMULATION SPEED ISSUE.
There has been alot of debate about the running speed of HF under emulation. For those who don't know, HF runs faster than the origonal arcade board under emulation (within Mame & Winkawaks) this is because the speed of the game in HF was linked to the CPU speed of the board (or something like that). I have repeatedly timed the full round 'time out' matches of the tourney vids I'm posting, and the correct emulation using the fantastic old Callus Emulator. I've concluded that a round (going by when the clock starts & finishes) is around:
57 SECONDS
In both Mame and WinKawaks under normal settings a round will last approx
46.5 SECONDS
clearly a significant speed inrease, and 'very' noticable when played side by side. Thankfully there is an emulator (besides the fantastic but defunct 'Callus') that runs the game at the correct speed, 'nFBA'. For more info see ONLINE PLAY section at the top of the page for more info:

OTHER ONLINE PLAY:
XBOX 360 LIVE RESOURCES
Street Fighter II - Hyper Fighting Edition XBox 360 SRK Player Roster:
Street Fighter II - Hyper Fighting Edition XBox 360 SRK Player Roster
SFII Turbo: HF - Good Times Thread:
SFII Turbo: HF - Good Times Thread
Xbox SF2 HF forums:
Xbox.com | P-S (Xbox LIVE Arcade) - Street Fighter® II? Hyper Fighting


Crayfish.
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Comments

  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,688
    HF is awesome. Too bad I have nothing good to contribute.

    On a useless note, I heard that there is a version of HF that the Konami code works on. Is this true? For those that don't know, you can enter the code in the arcade versions of WW and CE in attract mode while two CPU opponents are fighting each other. It gives you statistics about how many credits were put in the machine and how many times each character was selected.
  • Obot64.comObot64.com MichiganGamers.net Joined: Posts: 859
    Bravo for this thread.
    You never know how far youve traveled until you see somebody where you started off.

    The best advice comes from you.

    When I say Im trying to be the best, that doesnt mean Im trying to match my actions to anybodys ideas of what it takes to be the best.

    www.Obot64.com my site. I own it.
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    1. This thread is top-tier
    2. I have very little to contribute.
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • Saotome KanedaSaotome Kaneda Watch your back Joined: Posts: 5,332 mod
    This is gonna be a lot more difficult to contribute to than the ST thread since no one in Okinawa HAS HF, and even less still play SF2 in general.
    Original Team Sp00ky Member - Only the finest of Poverty™ Gaming Hipster™
    Comic-Z vs Super Metroid Watch if you want to lose your mind
  • CrayfishCrayfish Oro of the FGC Joined: Posts: 807
    To JinraiPVC, Obot64.com, Bill Wood & Callmeanewb, thanks alot guys, fantastic stuff. Really looking forward to the future of the thread after such a posotive start. CANT WAIT to see Tomo tape especialy :bgrin:

    THE EMULATION SPEED ISSUE.
    Soz, this is something important I had prepared to include in the origonal post. The has been alot of debate about the running speed of HF under emulation. For those who don't know, HF runs faster than the origonal arcade board under emulation, this is because the speed of the game in HF was linked to the CPU speed of the board (or something like that).
    I have repeatedly timed the full round 'time out' matches of the tourney vids I'm posting, and the correct emulation using the fantastic old Callus Emulator.
    I've concluded that a round (going by when the clock starts & finishes) is around:

    57 SECONDS

    In both Mame and WinKawaks under normal settings a round will last approx

    46.5 SECONDS

    clearly a significant speed inrease, and 'very' noticable when played side by side.

    The Solution:
    1.) I've only tested these three (Callus, Mame & WinKawaks) emulators, of which only Callus emulates the speed correctly. There may be other Emulators that also work (would appreciate some 'verified' input on this) so you could use one of them to play the game.
    2.) Winkawaks (and maybe other Emus ??) allows you to configure the CPU frequency manualy
    (Menu> Misc> Configure 68000 frequency)
    so you can adjust this setting so the game runs at the correct speed (you can use the arrow keys for fine tuning). Setting the frequency to '7mhz' (which is a nice round number to remember) yeilded fairly accurate results, tho a more accurate setting may be in the late 6 range (6.75 or so). When I tested this setting in Killera Netplay, it seemed to use the adjusted CPU frequency if both of you had the same setting, tho I can't be sure because of the added time of 'Lag Pauses' (more testing needed).

    *I would vey much appreciate some more 'varified' input and secondary testing on these results and other possible solutions for accurate online play. Its very important to the future of the game, that these issues are cleared up as early as possible.
    Thnx..

    Crayfish.
  • CrayfishCrayfish Oro of the FGC Joined: Posts: 807
    Ok, here is part 2 (of 7) of the
    'GANGZHOU 2003 HYPER FIGHTING TOURNAMENT':
    GuangZhou HF3 Pg1Grp D & E

    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CKQKIL71




    Have reposted hre Apoc's breakdown of Rog vs Sim in HF (frm the Tomo thread):

    I'll do my best off the top. It's been over a decade, lol. Really quick, me and Schaefer played 5 times in tourney and I lost 'em all. However, Sagat doesn't beat Rog. It's a great match. In fact, my first tourney facing Watson I used Rog vs. Watts Ryu AND Sagat and single handedly eliminated him in winners' and losers' bracket. I lost one game of 7 then. Fine, they didn't have Rog experience but I didn't have "top player" experience as I didn't play with those guys and had my local 'cades so, that just proves who brought serious Rog to the scene, lol.

    K, Rog and Sim is in total favor of Sim if only because Sim can get away with a mistake or two but Rog can't. Otherwise, it's a great match. Part of Rog's main strat is to not get knocked down or to get hit with a drill(Blocked or not) that also allows Sim to land. This means that you need disgression when attacking and appropriate range(Sounds like ol skool, huh? heheh).

    When attacking, you want to make sure that Sim can't move much. Meaning, don't st. fierce if he can move. You can eat a low move and get tossed around. Either attack after he's afraid to flinch or after he's whiffed. That way you hit the start up of Sim's moves or follow them in for free. I particular counter any whiffed legs over my head. This allows me more freedom to jump from farther when Sim realizes the risk in throwing out random standing kicks. Much like A3, Rog's dash will go through the kicks at the right range and nail him for free(I took this part of Rog vs. Sim straight from HF). A good Sim will be VERY careful about throwing out st.kicks.

    Staying just outside max slide range is perfect for TAPS through Sim's punches while also being able to react instantly to any whiffed slides.

    A smart Sim will only throw fireballs at a range where Rog can't tap safely. It's important to know this range and either jump over fireballs early or simply block while working toward better positioning. At this range the only thing to watch for is the jab fireball. An early jump will land on it so just block or jump straight up but only while Sim is in recoil.

    Drills MUST be taken care of. If Sim gets to the air at the right range without you nailing him you must walk into it and either take the hit or block close enough to counter before he lands. If you block or get hit by it at this range, it's over. Tossed to death. However, less than perfect drills are Rog's best friend here. Instead of taking the hit high and throwing, Rog should take the hit high(blocked or not) and combo to dizzy and then the round is over with Rog winning. Still, once Rog is down, there's no risk for Sim and, again, it's over. As with many characters, st. jab counters clean from the proper range and st. strong is great too. Utilize all of your AA's against Sim ON THE WAY UP. Dash is good to take a high hit to combo too.

    When knocking down sim, Rog should get free damage. Deep TAP to jab dash and keep your range.

    Rog's big advantage is his ability to dizzy so fast. Sim is a big character and therefore takes some huge Rog combos like the one I listed in my last post. That combo is the ender because Sim has to guess to avoid further damage. After the 2nd dash upper, Rog can walk up and overhead with jumping fierce, throw or trip. The throw sets up more damage or even a glitch juggle(like that Japanese vid), usually in the corner(heheh Sim can do it to Rog too).
    Apoc
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Thanks for the great info Crayfish, this is the exact kinda stuff I was looking for in my Dhalsim thread that is dying on the vine in the Strat section. :) I've just now started up with Sim after playing this game for over a decade, and I think I'll be sticking with him for awhile.

    I'm not sure what else I can contribute here, but I still have the old SF2T guides with tier/match listings and such. If anyone is interested in those, I can put 'em up when I get home tonight.
  • CrayfishCrayfish Oro of the FGC Joined: Posts: 807
    Keep an eye on the Gang Zhou tourney m8, there are quite a few Dhalsim players on there, and I'm hoping (O Sim master) Shirts might pass through at some point. Sure people would love to see the old guide's, for nostalga as much as anything. That reminds me:

    The Sunnyvale Golfland article
    http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/5429/hfguidebookp158golfland7hn.jpg
    & the Tomo Ohira interview
    http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4025/hfguidebookp159tomo8de.jpg
    both from the GamePro HF Guidebook *Reposted from the 'Tomo' thread.


    If any collectors are on here, check this out:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Street-Fighter-II-2-Turbo-Video-Capcom-Pony-Canyon-Jp_W0QQitemZ3194104097QQcategoryZ1345QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
    Its a different instructional video to the Gamest one I've already posted up. I'd love to see it. If anyone gets/has this, let us know, there have been several kind offers already to rip/ host anything like this for the thread.

    Crayfish.
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,190 ✭✭
    Bill Wood wrote:
    BTW, I've sent my old Capcom SF2 VHS tape to another board member here for encoding (as I don't have the resources to transfer it), so be on the lookout for that sometime in the future. It's a great old-school tape, and features none other than Tomo Ohira (not in actual competition, just giving tips and stuff). Hopefully you guys will get a kick out of watching it.

    That is some sweet stuff Wood, I want to see this too, so hopefully that member encodes it soon and post it on here for all of us to download, watch and learn, HF was imo the #1 best SF game, I loved it. Plus it would be nice to see some tips from Tomo, since he was the beast of his time...*sigh*, what I would give to see the man come back and beast in oldschool again.

    Btw, Crayfish, great shit I tell you, I'm just sorry that I can't contribute but I fully support this idea though.
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    As promised, here are the character rankings from the SF2 Turbo Strategy Guide, which are supposedly meant to reflect success in expert-level player vs. player competition (at the time of the guide's writing anyway):

    1: Guile
    2: (tie) Ryu, Sagat
    4: (tie) Zangief, Ken, Chun Li
    7: E.Honda
    8: Blanka
    9: Vega
    10: Balrog
    11: Dhalsim
    12: M.Bison

    Guile: Key advantages vs. Zangief, Ken and Chun Li.
    Ryu: Key advantages vs. Sagat, Ken and Chun Li.
    Sagat: Key advantages vs. Zangief, Ken and Chun Li. Only disadvantage vs. Ryu.
    Zangief: Key disadvantages vs. Guile and Sagat.


    How do you think this list has changed in the dozen+ years after the game's release? Who is the most misrepresented character on the list? And who is exactly where they should be?
  • DecoyDecoy You better block. Joined: Posts: 497
    Bill Wood wrote:
    As promised, here are the character rankings from the SF2 Turbo Strategy Guide, which are supposedly meant to reflect success in expert-level player vs. player competition (at the time of the guide's writing anyway):

    1: Guile
    2: (tie) Ryu, Sagat
    4: (tie) Zangief, Ken, Chun Li
    7: E.Honda
    8: Blanka
    9: Vega
    10: Balrog
    11: Dhalsim
    12: M.Bison

    Guile: Key advantages vs. Zangief, Ken and Chun Li.
    Ryu: Key advantages vs. Sagat, Ken and Chun Li.
    Sagat: Key advantages vs. Zangief, Ken and Chun Li. Only disadvantage vs. Ryu.
    Zangief: Key disadvantages vs. Guile and Sagat.


    How do you think this list has changed in the dozen+ years after the game's release? Who is the most misrepresented character on the list? And who is exactly where they should be?

    Wow, that list definately is a bit wierd. I mean. IMO, I think Blanka is easily top 5 or even top 3. When you have a ball attack that hits on the way up or down, that leads to some messed up situations for most characters. I think Ryu would be number 1 on that list. Hurricane kick that knocks down and goes over Guile's Sonic Booms gives him a distinct advantage.

    ~Decoy
    XBL Tag: Real Decoy
  • SNkNuTSNkNuT Joined: Posts: 427
    yeah. i definitely owned some peeps with blanka in this game. he should be in top 5.
    Currently Playing:
    KOF XI, NGBC, WHP, MotW, SSC, LB 2, MSA, KOF 98 UM
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    That list is off and also, IMHO tiers were fairly balanced in HF compared to games of today
  • dogberrydogberry l33t OG Sagat tactics Joined: Posts: 358
    Some weird things about the list.

    Guile does not have an advantage against Chun. It's actually the other way around. I don't think Ryu has an advantage against Sagat either. I think it's the other way around as well.

    IMO Ryu was no.1 in Hyper simply because he had fewer bad matches than Guile. Ryu had some problems with Sagat(?), Zangief and Vega. Guile had problems with Ryu, Blanka, Chun, Dhalsim and Vega.
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    Blanka high tier for once? WTF I know I beast with him round here, but that's cause most of the players are just OG, haven't touched it in years and don't play on a regular basis.

    I miss his x-up j. short that he has in later games though.
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • psychochronicpsychochronic 5 fingers in a fist Joined: Posts: 1,854
    Crayfish wrote:
    here I have edited out and paragraphed the
    'Hyper Fighting Dizzy System, Charr guides & strategies'
    section from Dogberry's fantastic 'ST-HF strategies' text guide comp. *2 sources:
    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7VHDM0LV
    http://rapidshare.de/files/20593475/2._HF_Dizzy_System__Charr_guides___strategies.txt.html

    Go Kevin go. :tup:
    FGC Google Map: https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z7moF_GAiTa4.kxWOHrLkpOgM
    Photobucket: http://www.tinyurl.com/p9eu67p
    Youtube: psychochronic, psychorarity
  • CrayfishCrayfish Oro of the FGC Joined: Posts: 807
    *EDITED TO INCLUDE T.AKIBA RANKINGS

    Ok here is part 3(of 7) of the
    'GANGZHOU 2003 HYPER FIGHTING TOURNAMENT':
    GuangZhou HF3 Pg1Grp F,G & H
    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y6SUVHS5


    Thanks alot Bill, I hadn't noticed just how odd these findings were until you posted them up again. This is an excellent starting point to get the discussion going. To see exactly how they broke the matches down, I've scaned the page in here:
    http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/4975/hfguidebookp118rankchart5il.jpg
    *can anyone explain to me how to have a thumbnail of the image that links to Imageshack, soz I'm stupid. Also like to know how to create a 'link' out of a 'word' instead of having to print the entire URL. Thnx.

    Now we already have Tomo's own ranking from the same publication:
    http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4025/hfguidebookp159tomo8de.jpg
    And thnx to Middlekick for translation we also have the latest T.Akiba rankings:

    HYPER FIGHTING RANKINGS 94 - PRESENT:
    GamePro HF Guide:...................Tomo Ohira:.................T.Akiba

    1: Guile ....................................1. Guile ......................1. E.Honda
    2: (tie) Ryu, Sagat ....................2. Ryu ........................2. Boxer
    4: (tie) Zangief, Ken, Chun Li .....3. Sagat .....................3. Ryu/Ken
    7: E.Honda ...............................4. Blanka ....................5. Blanka
    8: Blanka ..................................5. Ken .......................6. Guile
    9: Vega ....................................6.Dhalsim ...................7. Sagat
    10: Balrog ................................7. Chun Li ...................8. Zangief
    11: Dhalsim ..............................8. Zangief ...................9. Claw
    12: M.Bison ...............................9. Balrog ...................10. Chun Li
    ................................................10. E.Honda ................11. Dhalsim
    ................................................11. Vega ...................12. M.Bison
    ................................................12. M.Bison

    *T.Akiba is THE Japanese SF2 Supersite, and afaik, in Japan is the most highly regarded source of information on the game. We can regard this as the the most upto date concensus on rankings in Japan. http://games.t-akiba.net/sf2/diagrama.html
    E.Honda is no.1?!?!? Amazing Eh?, I've heard alot abt HF Honda, I know he has is the anystrength knockdown kicks & porkchop, but even so!! Also Boxer waay up there, amazing, proves Apoc right if its accurate. I think SRK member Dasrik is the man for HF Honda here on SRK, would be interested in what he has to say.

    *It would be fantastic if someone could translate the 10point ranking chart so we can see how these matchups breakdown

    Jeff Schaefer must have had another different ranking as well, as he's quoted as saying he has Blanka in the top 3 on the Tomo thread. And told his story of beating the Wolf Brothers 32-0 with Blanka against all comers:
    http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2760083#post2760083
    I guess Jeff would have top 3:
    1. Sagat
    2. Guile
    3. Blanka
    with Ryu being pushed out, as those are his winning characters.
    How do you guys have it?

    Crayfish.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    I can't help but keep thinking that those rankings by Tomo and GamePro are very old and yes while they do have actual experience backing those rankings, they don't account for the discoveries in these last 10+ years.

    Anyways, you can stick the t-akiba page into Google translator and it becomes pretty clear what the breakdowns are.

    In order from up to down (and left to right):
    Ryu
    Ken
    E.Honda
    Chun Li
    Blanka
    Zangief
    Guile
    Dhalsim
    Boxer
    Claw
    Sagat
    Dic

    Quick Excel job:
    http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/5992/turborank8ue.jpg

    Looking at the breakdown for Honda shows he has a couple of lopsided matchups (9-1 vs Dhalsim, wtf?!) Pretty much the site says his only bad matchups are again Ryu/Ken (but not to Guile?)

    Great old-school threads (this and the ST one by NKI.)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Crayfish wrote:
    *It would be fantastic if someone could translate the 10point ranking chart so we can see how these matchups breakdown

    If you're referring to the chart on the page that says "Hyper", I may be able to do that. I can read most hiragana/katakana and a tiny bit of kanji, enough to get me through that chart anyway. I'll see if I can recreate that chart as an English language .jpg or something.

    EDIT: Here you go, I think I got everything right:

    http://home.comcast.net/~billwood661/t-akiba_sf2_rankings.jpg
  • fluxcorefluxcore Fighting Kiwi Joined: Posts: 291
    Crayfish wrote:
    THE EMULATION SPEED ISSUE.
    The Solution:
    1.) I've only tested these three (Callus, Mame & WinKawaks) emulators, of which only Callus emulates the speed correctly. There may be other Emulators that also work (would appreciate some 'verified' input on this) so you could use one of them to play the game.
    *I would vey much appreciate some more 'varified' input and secondary testing on these results and other possible solutions for accurate online play. Its very important to the future of the game, that these issues are cleared up as early as possible.
    Thnx..

    Crayfish.

    I don't know exactly what the speed should be (there has been a reasonable amount of discussion on the MAME bugs pages about the issue, which amounts to "I think the devs haven't implemented the wait states correctly"), it certainly is remarkable that such an esteemed arcade game still hasn't been emulated correctly. I padhacked some XBOX pads to USB for my computer, but neither Callus nor Kawaks recognises the dpad directions, so MAME is my only option.

    However, it is possible to throttle the speed of the game when using MAME. Some places say you need cheats enabled to do this, but I'm not sure that's still necessary.

    In MAME, with game loaded:
    Press the '~' button (under ESC)
    Scroll through the list using the up and down buttons (this navigation system is not obvious)
    Find "CPU0"
    Left and right to adjust speed, I believe around 70-75% is close to accurate.

    I haven't tried this on SF2T recently, only SSF2X, in which CPU0 is cpu speed and CPU1 is audio cpu speed, so don't muck with CPU1 or else the sounds go mad.
    Additionally, I've had some problems with SSF2X crashing mame after a few rounds using this method, which isn't expected. YMMV.

    Edit: Just tried it with SF2T and it worked a charm. I'm still not sure which speed percentage is closer to accurate, as I don't have a cab handy (although I'm working on it... :D)

    --flux
    There is no knowledge that is not power
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Sorry for late reply Crayfish, in middle of exams, but as promised, here are alot of great threads i've managed to dig up from the agsf2 newsgroup. Not all these threads are going be useful and the tactics and strategies are by no means perfect. People have to remember these threads are 14 years old, but if anything offer good insight into the history of the game and the Sf2 online community.

    First i better start with Falcon Feather's guides for CE, his guides seem to cover the fundamentals for each character, although the information is quite dated now, people looking to get into sf2 will find them very helpful.

    Also here is the Sf2CE strategy bible also a good resource, with tips on matchups

    HF FAQ

    Heres a great HF matchup Ryu vs Blanka and Ryu vs Guile Thread. Warning, this is a very long read.

    MMSF HF Blanka guide

    HF Gief Guide

    HF Balrog (boxer) guide

    Discussion about Guile's inescapable pattern against Chun

    MMSF Guile guide

    Vega vs Blanka Thread

    Another Vega vs Blanka Thread

    Zangief vs Ryu/Blanka/Honda small thread

    Guile trapping patterns guide

    MMSF Sagat guide

    MMSF Vega(claw) Guide

    Honda Ultimate Tick by S.Kill

    Discussion about HF Vega

    MMSF Bison guide

    Interesting discussion about Throws

    Standard Combos thread

    Countering Honda's HHS

    S.Kill talks about how Ryu is superior to Ken in HF

    Vega (when no claw) vs Shotos

    A Guide on Learning to play sf2

    Discussion about following up booms on blanka and shotos

    Balrog vs Shotos

    Balrog vs Zangief

    Zangief vs Dhalsim

    Big discussion about being cheap

    Chun li discussion

    Guile's knee thrust tick

    Blanka vs Balrog

    Guile vs Sagat's low tigers

    Comparing Bison in CE and HF

    Discussion about the cheapness Bison was in CE

    Guile vs Gief

    Combo inconsistencies

    Guile can't tick aswell in HF

    Another discussion about Vega

    Stylish combos

    Zangief combos

    More Guile vs Ryu

    Ryu Tips

    Rogs 50% punch

    Throw ranges

    Sagat Thread

    Chun li tips

    Sac Throwing

    Vega countering HKs

    Dhalsim Thread

    Discussion about Guiles Best combos

    Honda Thread

    Balrog vs Sagat and Bison vs Guile

    More Combos

    Ryu Thread

    Character Ranking

    Shotos vs Balrog

    Thats about all i can muster right now, more to come though. Enjoy
  • CrayfishCrayfish Oro of the FGC Joined: Posts: 807
    Bill Wood & RobsMac fascinating findings guys, thanks for getting those out so quickly. Intruiged by the results. It shows just how much the game must have evolved since its peak in the west, and is testimony to its depth. Its almost like the game has been copletely tipped upsidedown, far from seeming worn out, seems like were only just scratching the surface of HF. I really looking forward to the future.
    Fluxcore, thanks for those findings, am very glad there is a solution with Mame as along with Winkawaks its pretty much the online standard. Pls keep us posted on anything else U find.
    Wow r3ko, thought you'd dig some great stuff upbut didn't expect that. Great work, where to start!

    The future is looking really bright. Thanks again.
    Crayfish.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Well, thank you for posting links to those cn1 tourney footage. Kind of funny hearing Canto during the gameplay, kinda reminds me of being in the arcades back in the day.

    And I swear that I heard the word 'wut' (ticking) a few times during those matches. Good to know this term has survived all these years, lol.
  • polaritypolarity I'M BACK BITCHES Joined: Posts: 1,841
    Noob question:

    What's the deal with all these people in the AGSF2 threads talking about counterthrow like it's the only way out of ticks? Did reversal DP not work in HF, or did they just not know about it then?

    edit: Oh, it seems like some people did know about it. Still not a particularly popular strategy though?
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    I imagine reversal throw is way safer.

    reversal dragon punch

    -> connect = knockdown and mediocre damage
    -> block = you're fucked
    -> missed = you're thrown

    reversal throw

    -> connect = throw
    -> opp outside throw range but you inside opp's throw range = you thrown
    -> opp blocks outside of throw range = blocked normal = safe
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • polaritypolarity I'M BACK BITCHES Joined: Posts: 1,841
    I imagine reversal throw is way safer.

    reversal dragon punch

    -> connect = knockdown and mediocre damage
    -> block = you're fucked
    -> missed = you're thrown

    reversal throw

    -> connect = throw
    -> opp outside throw range but you inside opp's throw range = you thrown
    -> opp blocks outside of throw range = blocked normal = safe

    Yeah, but DP can counter tick throw attempts as well as short, short, c.RH or similar, whereas counter-throw will only counter the throw attempt, won't it?

    Just remembered that you can reversal throw people out of a hit in ST at least, so perhaps I'm wrong actually. I guess in that case reversal DP would only be useful if your opponent has a longer throw range than you, and does something like Short x 3 to tick

    edit: To contradict myself again, now that I think about it, wouldn't a perfectly-timed reversal throw always be guaranteed against something like c.Short, c.Short, c.RH, even if you couldn't reversal throw vs. a hit (presuming you're in throw range)? If the c.RH hits you while still in blockstun you block it anyway, otherwise they have to leave a gap which you can then use to throw. I guess if they time the c.RH so it hits on the first frame you're out of blockstun, then it wouldn't work...but all this is a moot point if you can reversal throw people out of a hit anyway. God fucking dammit, just ignore me, I'm so confused :lol:
  • Obot64.comObot64.com MichiganGamers.net Joined: Posts: 859
    If anyone thinks that Hyperfighting deservers more than a thread (like a whole site dedicated to it) let me know. I have some extra webspace i would be willing to donate to such a project.

    Edit: Hyper Fighting Tournament 4-15-2006 Footage on www.michigangamers.net

    We have another turny coming up at the end of this month. ;p
    You never know how far youve traveled until you see somebody where you started off.

    The best advice comes from you.

    When I say Im trying to be the best, that doesnt mean Im trying to match my actions to anybodys ideas of what it takes to be the best.

    www.Obot64.com my site. I own it.
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    you can reversal c.short c.short c.roundhouse given you have throw range.
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    Hi.

    I don't know much about HF, but I wanted to make two notes of caution:

    While T.Akiba's site is the best site in the world for technical info (frame data, breakdown of game system, etc), you shouldn't take his HF rankings as the word of God. I dunno if that page is simply how he feels the rankings go, or if the page is just outdated or what, but his ST rankings are not accurate, so it would not surprise me if the HF rankings are inaccurate as well.

    Also, alt.games.sf2 contained a lot of good info, but it also contained a lot of bad info, so don't believe everything you read there.
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    polarity wrote:
    Yeah, but DP can counter tick throw attempts as well as short, short, c.RH or similar, whereas counter-throw will only counter the throw attempt, won't it?

    Just remembered that you can reversal throw people out of a hit in ST at least, so perhaps I'm wrong actually. I guess in that case reversal DP would only be useful if your opponent has a longer throw range than you, and does something like Short x 3 to tick

    edit: To contradict myself again, now that I think about it, wouldn't a perfectly-timed reversal throw always be guaranteed against something like c.Short, c.Short, c.RH, even if you couldn't reversal throw vs. a hit (presuming you're in throw range)? If the c.RH hits you while still in blockstun you block it anyway, otherwise they have to leave a gap which you can then use to throw. I guess if they time the c.RH so it hits on the first frame you're out of blockstun, then it wouldn't work...but all this is a moot point if you can reversal throw people out of a hit anyway. God fucking dammit, just ignore me, I'm so confused :lol:

    You can throw people out of a LOT of shit in HF, eating a hit to get a throw is often a good choice.

    The throw is fairly safe compared to a DP which does less damage, and leaves you completely fucked should you hit air.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
  • CrayfishCrayfish Oro of the FGC Joined: Posts: 807
    Obot64.com wrote:
    If anyone thinks that Hyperfighting deservers more than a thread (like a whole site dedicated to it) let me know. I have some extra webspace i would be willing to donate to such a project.

    Edit: Hyper Fighting Tournament 4-15-2006 Footage on www.michigangamers.net

    We have another turny coming up at the end of this month. ;p

    Those vids were great Obot, I am really surprised. Getting compeition going in the west and getting vids of it up was the next big step as far as I saw it, your already way ahead of us, great work :tup:
    You even have one of those origonal HF cabinets I'd seen on the net with the character art around the screen. Fantastic to see HF Chun and Rog doing thier thing, and Ken with Tripples, man thats what HF is all about :china:

    Im deffo up for cotributing some stuff toward a site after seeig that stuff. Am busy for next week or so, but after that.... Can't wait to see the next torney. Pls keep us posted.

    Thnks NKI sorting the good stuf out will be one of the main undertakings for us deffo.

    More Guang Zhou soon. *returns to Obot vids...
    Crayfish.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Crayfish, or NKI. Maybe you guys can answer this. I have SF2 HF for Jamma. Cmutt and I were playing last week and we both agreed that this game is alot slower than ST on US Speed 3.

    How fast is this game supposed to be? I always hear people talk about how fast SF2 HF is and I just don't see it.

    Is there a dipswitch setting I am missing or something?
  • polaritypolarity I'M BACK BITCHES Joined: Posts: 1,841
    Crayfish, or NKI. Maybe you guys can answer this. I have SF2 HF for Jamma. Cmutt and I were playing last week and we both agreed that this game is alot slower than ST on US Speed 3.

    How fast is this game supposed to be? I always hear people talk about how fast SF2 HF is and I just don't see it.

    Is there a dipswitch setting I am missing or something?

    I saw a post on AGSF2 saying that different HF cabs run at noticeably different speeds.
  • Obot64.comObot64.com MichiganGamers.net Joined: Posts: 859
    polarity wrote:
    I saw a post on AGSF2 saying that different HF cabs run at noticeably different speeds.

    I wonder why that is?

    edit~
    Crayfish:
    Be sure to check out the 15 match gauntlet where I go up against Hollow (who has been playing HF since it came out) in a new school vs old school battle).
    You never know how far youve traveled until you see somebody where you started off.

    The best advice comes from you.

    When I say Im trying to be the best, that doesnt mean Im trying to match my actions to anybodys ideas of what it takes to be the best.

    www.Obot64.com my site. I own it.
  • polaritypolarity I'M BACK BITCHES Joined: Posts: 1,841
    Obot64.com wrote:
    I wonder why that is?

    I know it's the same for CvS2 too (even at the same speed setting). Different production runs of the boards or something, perhaps?
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    I think I have a HF board at home (not sure), but if I do, I'll pop it in to test.

    All I remember is when I first played arcade HF (which was after I started playing ST), I just could not believe how fast the game was.
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    i occasionally play crayfish on kaillera and i gotta say the speed is mental fast on that. As Crayfish said it runs too fast, and we were testing out to see if its possible to play at the correct speed online by altering the cpu speed from 12 to 7.5. Crayfish thinks its works but i remain skeptical ( I think lag threw the timing off). Wondering if anyone else has tried to getting HF working at the correct speed online?
  • Obot64.comObot64.com MichiganGamers.net Joined: Posts: 859
    r3ko: HF on mame runs differently than HF on callus I tested that the other day...but I thought it was because of the different programming of each emu... perhaps I have different romsets too.....
    You never know how far youve traveled until you see somebody where you started off.

    The best advice comes from you.

    When I say Im trying to be the best, that doesnt mean Im trying to match my actions to anybodys ideas of what it takes to be the best.

    www.Obot64.com my site. I own it.
  • CrayfishCrayfish Oro of the FGC Joined: Posts: 807
    Concerning the speed issue see my 2nd post in the thread here:
    http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3131907#post3131907
    From timing full rounds in the GaungZhou matchvids and the correct Callus emulation, I found a round should last around 57 seconds (I dont know how this wil rlate to CPS2 as the counter may run at a diffeent rate..).
    I'll check through Obots vids to find a full round time up (if there is one), to time that too. Its certainly slower than ST speed 3. Im sure the different settings in ST are susposed to represent the different versions. If you go into CPS2 system configuration you have 4 speed settings (rather than 3 if you set it to free select). They are labeled differently in the World and JApanese versions, either 0 to 3 or 1 to 4. The first speed is WW the second is CE, the third HF and the fourth is the new ST speed.

    I pretty sure the perception of HFs speed is down to:
    The memory of the game being hugely faster than previous CE and WW versions when it first arrived.
    The fact that HF 'plays' fast. Increased speed, high damage, easy exetuion.
    Also people primarily playing the emulated versions and the oonsole versions (using the default 3 stars setting) that all run too fast, ater the game dissapeared in most arcades.
    Plus the subliminal effect of the game being called 'Turbo' :P

    The same thing had happened to me, I'd been playing the console then incorrectly emulated versions (mame kawaks) for a long time so when I got those GangZhou vids in 2003 I couldn't understand why thier arcade version was running so slow. Then I heard about the CPU emulation issue... and have now returned to playing the Callus version of Kawaks set to 7mhz.

    Crayfish.
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    Wow, I just tested out my HF board, and it was way, way, way slower than I remember. Looking back on it now, I think when I played HF, I played it on nothing but emus and Capcom Generations 5, which is why I remember HF being this speed:
    http://nki.combovideos.com/GuileHF.mpeg

    (That vid was done with Capcom Generations 5, by the way.)

    But now that I've played the arcade version, ST is definitely faster.
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Man, but I remember HF being faster. Alot faster. I have played on arcades where I was like "Damn, this is faster than the arcade version I have at home"

    It felt close to ST speed 3 speeds(USA). It seriously fucks with my timing because I play both ST and HF now.

    Oh NKI, can you PM me and tell me how to contribute to the ST WIKI?

    I have some stuff done, but alot more to go.:wgrin:
  • dbycrashdbycrash i'm here to rule pants. Joined: Posts: 254
    i played this game a ton back in the day, and still do from time to time. one of my favorite aspects about this incarnation of SF2 is that the jump-in became a more viable option due to the speed of the game. turtling became less of a dominant strategy than in previous versions for a number of reasons.

    ... on a more personal note; i remember seeing this game for the first time at disney world in orlando, FL. being 13 at the time and already a diehard street fighter fan, seeing this game was more amazing than the rollercoasters and fireworks combined that day. instead of meeting all the disney characters and running around the park, i spent close to 10 hours playing anyone who would come up to the machine and offer a challenge(sparing 2 hours for space mountain and the haunted mansion). probably the most shocking aspects of this game were the first time i witnessed chun throw a fireball; immediatly i thought to myself: "that has to be the ugliest fireball i have ever seen"... then came the biggest shock in the form of the dhalsim teleport; shocking enough that it prompted me to pick sim for the first time in over a year atleast. after a good hour of mastering this new technique my conclusion was "the punch/kick, f,hcf/b,hcb combinations are too laborious to master.. sim sucks anyway"(if i only knew then what i know now).

    HF is nostalgia at it's best. i still consider this to be the most refined version of street fighter ever created. there are obvious tiers and bad matchups, but every character has solid strategies that, if executed properly, gives him/her a chance against most, if not all, of the cast. imho, capcom's strategy to not nerf any character, but instead make the weaker ones stronger was the catalyst which made this game so great. i remember people arguing that dictator lost his edge and claw became a beast; but that was then.. now an experienced player can exploit dictator almost as well as in CE and any character with a decent anti-air can keep claw at bay. HF will always be one of my fav. games of all time.
    random since 91'
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Obot64.com wrote:
    If anyone thinks that Hyperfighting deservers more than a thread (like a whole site dedicated to it) let me know. I have some extra webspace i would be willing to donate to such a project.

    Edit: Hyper Fighting Tournament 4-15-2006 Footage on www.michigangamers.net

    We have another turny coming up at the end of this month. ;p

    The gief player on those vids missed SO many SPD's it's not even funny
  • SNkNuTSNkNuT Joined: Posts: 427
    NKI wrote:
    Wow, I just tested out my HF board, and it was way, way, way slower than I remember. Looking back on it now, I think when I played HF, I played it on nothing but emus and Capcom Generations 5, which is why I remember HF being this speed:
    http://nki.combovideos.com/GuileHF.mpeg

    (That vid was done with Capcom Generations 5, by the way.)

    But now that I've played the arcade version, ST is definitely faster.



    i don't know but HF seems a bit faster when i tested it on the ultracade.
    Currently Playing:
    KOF XI, NGBC, WHP, MotW, SSC, LB 2, MSA, KOF 98 UM
  • laughlaugh eTokki.com Master Joined: Posts: 1,929
    Ultracade won't be a good standard to compare stuff to.

    Arcade HF is definitely slower than US ST Turbo 3. It even says so in the ST operator's guide booklet. It said something about how Turbo 2 is close to the speed of HF and that Turbo 3 is faster than HF. Mame devs are (supposedly) working on making the HF speed match that of the arcade, and it's a pretty well known issue that they're always bugged about from people.

    Also, I agree that there are about 2-3 different revisions of arcade cvs2 with speed differences, but I highly doubt the different revisions of HF have speed differences.
    Rolento in SSF4!

    eTokki.com - for the best arcade parts, converters, joysticks and more!
  • CrayfishCrayfish Oro of the FGC Joined: Posts: 807
    I've just tested all three revs US, World and Japan (all are numbered 921209) in Winkawaks with the CPU frequency set to 7mhz. They all run the same speed.

    Crayfish.
  • polaritypolarity I'M BACK BITCHES Joined: Posts: 1,841
    Crayfish wrote:
    I've just tested all three revs US, World and Japan (all are numbered 921209) in Winkawaks with the CPU frequency set to 7mhz. They all run the same speed.

    Crayfish.

    I don't think this really confirms anything, as you're not running the games on the original hardware. It seems possible to me that perhaps different board revisions had very slight hardware differences (i.e. the clock speed of the processor being set slightly differently), which could account for speed differences on different cabs. Just a theory, though.
  • CrayfishCrayfish Oro of the FGC Joined: Posts: 807
    polarity wrote:
    I don't think this really confirms anything, as you're not running the games on the original hardware. It seems possible to me that perhaps different board revisions had very slight hardware differences (i.e. the clock speed of the processor being set slightly differently), which could account for speed differences on different cabs. Just a theory, though.

    I think it confirms that any susposed difference in speed isn't down to the different software revisions.

    Crayfish.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Hey guys, that video I sent to Preppy is up in his "zachd/mvc2 videos" thread, I hope you all enjoy it. Big thanks to him for taking the time to encode it!

    Here's the direct link:

    http://zachd.com/mvc2/#sf2
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