Street Fighter X Tekken Match Critique Thread

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  • Vulcan HadesVulcan Hades Flea Stance Tea-bagging Joined: Posts: 1,842
    btw sorry I haven't watched the other vids yet but I definitely plan to.
    Thancruz wrote:
    It's still hard to believe that these 2 players who in AE come up with these marvelous set ups,combos,etc. With their respective characters are just fishing for back and forth boosting when both of their "best" characters have more than enough damage output and better set ups that is far beyond llllllllmhh. Not to take away that they have reactions,footsies,spacing etc., just seems so disappointing.
    I don't know what set you saw but I never saw more than one light in their boost combos. :p llllllmhh happens when Rufus is trying to hit confirm (lol) but not when they're buffering at mid-range. And they were only fishing for ABC when their footsie based character was out (Cody/Julia) but otherwise Tokido was doing a lot of interesting and nasty setups with Sim and Gamerbee was doing some good zoning with Jack so it wasn't just lmhh all the time.

    Like it or not, ABC is the main way to play footsies in this game if you have no meter or want to preserve your meter for something else. So they were actually playing smart footsie wise, just not optimizing their combos. Just because chains are stupid and were designed to help casual players doesn't mean using ABC in footsies is stupid. It's a simple and effective tech that many here on SRK and even a lot of A rank players online have not assimilated/incorporated yet into their gameplay.

    But yeah, Gamerbee could learn a thing or two from watching Ryan play her. He definitely needs to optimize those combos and manage his meter more carefully. But he's getting there I think. Also Tokido's oki setups were far more effective than what Gamerbee was doing after his knockdowns.
    SFxT - Juri, Yoshimitsu, Christie, Asuka, Marduk, Blanka, Bison, Kuma...
    TTT2 - Yoshimitsu, Christie
  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭


    I'd like to note how apeshit I went on the double mashing, for some reason I couldn't get anything to work against him without having to at least double input it. Save for the combos, even then I doubled the special attacks.
    No link is being shown, mate.
    http://zeroisbetterthanwesker.blogspot.co.uk/


    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • EmpryreanEmpryrean ╯°□°)╯︵ (波動拳) Joined: Posts: 443
    No link is being shown, mate.
    ouch, I'll edit that when the upload is done being weird.
    PSN:Empryrean
    XBL:Empyraeon
    RIP Psn :(
  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ouch, I'll edit that when the upload is done being weird.
    No worries, I look forward to seeing you play. :P
    http://zeroisbetterthanwesker.blogspot.co.uk/


    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • EmpryreanEmpryrean ╯°□°)╯︵ (波動拳) Joined: Posts: 443
    No worries, I look forward to seeing you play. :P
    It's up!
    PSN:Empryrean
    XBL:Empyraeon
    RIP Psn :(
  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's up!
    We can see how crazy he was going with mashing, in that regard, I think you need to implement frame traps more into your game. Your use of launcher was precise. :) You didn't seem to want to block cross ups, I don't know whether that was down to your stick (pad) or connection. Don't forget, your characters are strong in the footsies department, especially against Shotos, :)
    Your Julia mix up game after her dash was nice, just be aware that her overhead punch isn't safe on block.

    Just in case you didn't know, here's a link to the frame data.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0ApPlWhz-bEuHdDM2blEydzhDY1BJOC1Qdm9mZ09yRlE&f=true&noheader=true&gid=64
    http://zeroisbetterthanwesker.blogspot.co.uk/


    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • EmpryreanEmpryrean ╯°□°)╯︵ (波動拳) Joined: Posts: 443
    helpful stuff
    I may need a quick up-to-speed on frame data. Thank you for the critique!
    PSN:Empryrean
    XBL:Empyraeon
    RIP Psn :(
  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I may need a quick up-to-speed on frame data. Thank you for the critique!
    You mean, you don't understand how it works? You're welcome. :)
    http://zeroisbetterthanwesker.blogspot.co.uk/


    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • BadIntentBadIntent Joined: Posts: 176
    How are you going to reach me with your tiny limbs if I'm whiffing from out of range in the first place? Your scenario assumes that you are in range to whiff punish me but in practice you wouldn't be able to reach 90% of the time unless your poke interrupts mine as a counter hit, which isn't the same as whiff punishing.

    In the recent set between Tokido and Gamerbee, when Cody was out vs Julia they were both doing nothing else than fishing for cross-rush and occasional jump in to catch the opponent off guard. Yet, neither Tokido or Gamerbee were able to whiff punish their opponent on reaction. In fact, the only whiff punish I saw in the whole set was Gamerbee using Julia's Super to whiff punish a whiffed c.lk or s.mk from Cody. The rest was mainly counter hits which isn't done on reaction but more on anticipation. They wait a bit and throw a delayed poke to counter poke. But again that's nearly impossible to do on reaction you do it as a guess. I'm not saying whiff punishing is impossible, but it certainly is a lot harder/riskier than AE, especially if the opponent is able to space their pokes just right and throw them at unexpected times. Even good players have trouble reacting to a 15-20 frames overhead and trouble reacting to CADC so how the hell are they going to react to a s.lk/c.mk and whiff punish even though they can't even geometrically reach in time?

    Gamerbee isn't the best Julia player and Tokido isn't the best Cody. But these guys have a solid grasp of footsies/spacing in almost any game they play. So if they could react and whiff punish I'm sure we would've seen it more but it just didn't happen that often.

    And in the thousands of games I've played online and offline I've yet to fight another player that could consistently whiff punish my buffered pokes on reaction. That's only going to happen if I'm being predictable with my pokes or spacing them real bad.

    I'm going to come at this from the same logic that you're using. The reason you say to whiff normals in the first place is because the opponent might walk into them or press a button into them getting your buffer to come out. So if you're doing that your opponent has to be close enough to walk into them in the first place. If they're close enough to walk into it, they're geometrically close enough to hit your normal in its recovery. I guess if you're whiffing completely outside the range of all of your opponent's pokes then there's no risk, but there's also no potential for reward since they wouldn't be close enough to walk into the button or stick a normal into yours, getting counter poked. The only thing that can possibly come from this is potentally getting preemptively jumped on.

    So, assuming you're whiffing normals that are actually in the range where they can do any good, then yes against any player who has practiced whiff punishing that is a huge risk. Cody's light kick is honestly a big exception because it comes out so fast and recovers so quickly. Also in that set in particular, Julia doesn't have anything to poke back at that's that fast and far to catch Cody's standing forward right outside of max distance, and Julia's crouching light kick is similar to Cody's in that it comes out faster and is out for much less time than Ryu's low forward. To put it in perspective, Ryu's low forward has a total of 26 active frames (5/5/16), so the full animation is longer than the startup of say, Xiaoyu's Cyanide which can be blocked every time unless you're pressing buttons. Julia's low short on the other hand has, only 19 active frames (5/4/10). Similar to Chun Li's light Hazanshu in AE which should be blocked almost every time, but it's a lot easier to slip up on that if you're not looking for that animation.

    Also about the CADCs, depends on who you play. If you've seen Ricky Ortiz play PR Balrog, he punishes CADCs consistently from PR Rog's Ryu. Perhaps he might be mashing low short, but he's not getting counter hit by the frame traps, and it's a 2 frame punish for sweep and much larger for low forward so it's perfectly doable. And I'm sure everyone's seen Daigo and XSK Samurai consistently whiff punish low forwards from other Ryu's in AE well over 3/4 of the time. You can tell it's on reaction, because their character will literally stand still right outside of the low forward to make sure their hurt box is thinner than when crouching and then sweep. Since we're using Tokido as an example, he actually does that exact same thing against opposing Ryu's with his Akuma's sweep, though I will say he does fish for that much more than he legitimately whiff punishes. Everyone can't do it on reaction though, and that's my point. If you watch that SCR set from 2010 I think with Daigo vs Valle you can clearly see that Valle's sweeps were random and Daigo's were on reaction. If you want to whiff your normals, and play the 'fishing' style of poking then by all means do it. But make sure it's against a player (or character since I guess I should have said that before) that cannot consistently punish your whiffed buttons.
  • Vulcan HadesVulcan Hades Flea Stance Tea-bagging Joined: Posts: 1,842
    BadIntent wrote:
    I guess if you're whiffing completely outside the range of all of your opponent's pokes then there's no risk, but there's also no potential for reward since they wouldn't be close enough to walk into the button or stick a normal into yours, getting counter poked. The only thing that can possibly come from this is potentally getting preemptively jumped on.
    I completely disagree. :) Jumping is only one mid-range option and it's the most unsafe one. You're basically saying that the only or most probable thing that can happen to me at that specific range is me getting randomly jumped on while I throw a huge random poke with massive recovery. Which sounds a little silly to me. Jumping is often a player's last resort at getting in dat sweet pressure range. But smarter players will use a variety of advancing manoeuvers to try and close the distance. This can be a dash/wavedash, a slide type move, a lunge punch, tackle or overhead. Or something like Gief's Green Hand or Rog's Dash Punch. These are all mid-range options used to close distance that get effectively blown up by a buffered standing/crouching short. And if they do jump on me, I still recover fast enough to cross-cancel or at least block in time. So I don't really see the risk there. I'm not throwing a standing roundhouse I'm throwing a standing short.

    imo it depends a lot more on the character you're fighting against than the player. The spacing and pokes you use to buffer will differ depending on the character's... "attack vectors" (omg James Chen jargon :D).

    Maybe I'm just thinking a bit differently though because I don't really play Ryu lol. I play Yoshi, a character who doesn't have the best pokes in the world so I'm not looking to play the up close footsie war against someone like Julia. Or rather, I have to play footsies differently at a different range using different tactics. But it's the same universal concept and it's just as effective and has the advantage of being a much safer way of fishing.

    I will agree that not everyone is able to whiff punish on reaction though. And that fishing/buffering is a risky tactic if you're going to use it up close at a range where you can get whiff punished or get your poke blocked. I can agree with that. But the way you phrased it:
    BadIntent wrote:
    Make sure if you gonna just whiff normals and buffer them into fireball, launch, whatever that you're playing someone that can't see that.
    To me sounded like you were saying it's a tech that only works against bad/uneducated players because any good player will always whiff punish you. Which is far from being true. And like you said yourself a considerable portion of the cast would not even have the normals required to reach that far in time.
    SFxT - Juri, Yoshimitsu, Christie, Asuka, Marduk, Blanka, Bison, Kuma...
    TTT2 - Yoshimitsu, Christie
  • BunnycapBunnycap Team NAH is killing good fighting games. Joined: Posts: 817
    I may need a quick up-to-speed on frame data. Thank you for the critique!
    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/basic-frame-data-guide-for-newbies.106615/

    As for your game play.
    -Learn your frame traps
    -Learn how to bait reversals from said frame traps
    -learn how to hit confirm off your frame traps(Once you get a feel for your character more you might start to develop autopilot habits and will continue the pressure without confirming the hit you just got. That is unsafe and lazy)
    - Learn how to punish rolls
    -Basic high damage(50-60%) punish combo for when they do do something stupid.
    -Keep playing and having fun, the most important one imo.
    PSN:Bunnycap
    "I'm far too old for the rest of SRK, but I'm not old enough for GD. Every time I go in there, I end up feeling like I need an adult."
  • VegamanVegaman Soak in your own blood! Joined: Posts: 3,570 ✭✭
    I'm going to come at this from the same logic that you're using. The reason you say to whiff normals in the first place is because the opponent might walk into them or press a button into them getting your buffer to come out. So if you're doing that your opponent has to be close enough to walk into them in the first place. If they're close enough to walk into it, they're geometrically close enough to hit your normal in its recovery. I guess if you're whiffing completely outside the range of all of your opponent's pokes then there's no risk, but there's also no potential for reward since they wouldn't be close enough to walk into the button or stick a normal into yours, getting counter poked. The only thing that can possibly come from this is potentally getting preemptively jumped on.

    So, assuming you're whiffing normals that are actually in the range where they can do any good, then yes against any player who has practiced whiff punishing that is a huge risk. Cody's light kick is honestly a big exception because it comes out so fast and recovers so quickly. Also in that set in particular, Julia doesn't have anything to poke back at that's that fast and far to catch Cody's standing forward right outside of max distance, and Julia's crouching light kick is similar to Cody's in that it comes out faster and is out for much less time than Ryu's low forward. To put it in perspective, Ryu's low forward has a total of 26 active frames (5/5/16), so the full animation is longer than the startup of say, Xiaoyu's Cyanide which can be blocked every time unless you're pressing buttons. Julia's low short on the other hand has, only 19 active frames (5/4/10). Similar to Chun Li's light Hazanshu in AE which should be blocked almost every time, but it's a lot easier to slip up on that if you're not looking for that animation.

    Also about the CADCs, depends on who you play. If you've seen Ricky Ortiz play PR Balrog, he punishes CADCs consistently from PR Rog's Ryu. Perhaps he might be mashing low short, but he's not getting counter hit by the frame traps, and it's a 2 frame punish for sweep and much larger for low forward so it's perfectly doable. And I'm sure everyone's seen Daigo and XSK Samurai consistently whiff punish low forwards from other Ryu's in AE well over 3/4 of the time. You can tell it's on reaction, because their character will literally stand still right outside of the low forward to make sure their hurt box is thinner than when crouching and then sweep. Since we're using Tokido as an example, he actually does that exact same thing against opposing Ryu's with his Akuma's sweep, though I will say he does fish for that much more than he legitimately whiff punishes. Everyone can't do it on reaction though, and that's my point. If you watch that SCR set from 2010 I think with Daigo vs Valle you can clearly see that Valle's sweeps were random and Daigo's were on reaction. If you want to whiff your normals, and play the 'fishing' style of poking then by all means do it. But make sure it's against a player (or character since I guess I should have said that before) that cannot consistently punish your whiffed buttons.

    tldr but did read the first couple sentences.....

    whiffing normals is meant as a means to control space. You're telling the opponent (hey, this area is my area..... get inside this area you you're gonna eat a combo). This makes it easier to force the opponent into the corner. Mixing up normals you whiff with also serves a dual purpose. It makes the opponent hesitant to try to whiff punish your poke, and it makes it easier to condition and bait the opponent into attempting to punish a normal they themselves miss punishing leaving them wide open. This includes baiting jumps because for some stupid reason 95% of online players wanna try to jump over pokes instead of playing footsies. If you use a fast poke you can recover in time to anti air them. Of if you have a weak opponent cornered but is all antsy and ready to react fast you can whiff a cLK or cLP to bait out that reversal so they have to either use meter to bring in the partner or take the damage.
    I'd like to note how apeshit I went on the double mashing, for some reason I couldn't get anything to work against him without having to at least double input it. Save for the combos, even then I doubled the special attacks.

    all of your problems can be summed up in the advice that is always applicable

    -Block more
    -Think more


    Look at how much damage you took from not blocking.... or more specifically, pressing buttons. Now imagine how well you'd do with all that extra health. Also.... you still have autopilot on. Turn that shit off and start thinkin about what your opponent is doing, and is trying to do. Pay attention to what he likes to do in certain situations.

    Press buttons only when you need to press buttons. Every button press is a risk. Yeah there's always the risk of getting thrown, but throws do less damage than combos. Play smart and take the safer route until you learn how and when to take risks.

    This is where playing to learn will get you further in the end than always playing to win. If you focus on winning then you're missing a lot of the important things that you need to develop and practice. Every movement, every button press, every selection of moves in a combo should have a specific reason for doing it. dont get caught up in the trap of "trying to make it work." It's one thing to go and test a theory to see how the opponent responds (like the whiffing normal example above to see if the opponent is antsy) but it's another if it's out of desperation.

    Here's an example: Why did you launcher at 19 sec? Did you guess that he was going to use a low move or was it a read where you knew he was probably going to go low? If it was a read, what did he do that told you doing a raw launcher was a good idea?

    Or at 50 sec why are you running away from the opponent when he has the life lead? You're giving up a ton of space for no work at all putting yourself almost into the corner.

    Stuff like that is what you need to be working on first. Most every other problem will resolve itself once you start blocking more and thinking more.


    Just as a side note.... Don't misunderstand me thinking that I'm saying something to the effect that you are incapable of thinking or that you're stupid. That's not what I'm saying at all. It's not meant as an insult..... it's meant as good advice that will make you play at a level where you should be playing at instead of the level you're playing at now.

    and holy shit at my wall o text
    "Nothing cheaper than something free."
    "You must wait at least 28623 seconds before performing this action."
    Jun 16, 2011 -- 12:28PM, DarthEnderX wrote:
    Makoto is about to have the best day ever.
  • silphsilph Joined: Posts: 267
    This thread is a great idea because one of the things my game is lacking is damage optimization. This was my most recent one. Thanks in advance.




    NOTES:
    My buttons are crapping out (notably my forward) so I had to triple tap a few things. On round 2, finger slipped to roundhouse resulting in an ex pinwheel. Meant to do low forward into hk pinwheel cancel to Bison and end the match. So that was an accident from multi-tapping.

    I dropped a few combos, that was my fault.
    I need to break the habit of doing crouch mk instead of stand fp into pinwheel on juri's jump cancel. That's my fault.
    0:23
    Combo used:
    Bison (hit confirm): cr. LK, cr. LK xx st. HK xx Launcher -
    Juri (juggle): cr. HP [whiff]
    Had Juri's juggle been completed the combo would have yielded -
    315 DMG

    Optimal:
    Bison (hit confirm): cr. LK, (link) cr. MK xx st. HK xx Launcher -
    Juri (juggle): cr. HP, jf. HP (land/pause) st. HP xx LK Pinwheel
    345 DMG

    0:40
    Combo used:
    Juri (hit confirm): HK Shikusen (land) [whiff]
    (Assuming c. MK xx LK Pinwheel) Had the combo been completed it would have yielded -
    180 DMG

    This is a common drop among developing Juri players. 180 is indeed the most meterless damage to be gained from this situation, but here is some advice to make sure you don't drop this combo again:

    If Shikusen strikes your opponent in the chest or above, c. MK xx Pinwheel will work just fine. However, the lower the hit connects the more awkward it becomes. In some situations Juri can walk forward slightly and connect the c. MK. In others, it is either impossible or prohibitively difficult to connect it at all. To remedy this, use st. MP xx Pinwheel instead. Note that using st. MP, you will need to charge the Pinwheel for a brief moment to allow both hits to connect. It is not necessary to walk forward using this method in any situation and works reliably no matter how high or low Shikusen connects.

    That said, in this situation I feel the best decision would have been to use this opportunity to bring in Bison. Here is the optimal way to do so:

    Juri (hit confirm): HK Shikusen (land) st. MP xx MK Pinwheel (slight delay before release) xx Tag
    Bison (juggle): j. HP (land) st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher
    390 DMG
    1M

    Bison actually has fancier combo options than this but they are too height and distance dependant to be reliable.

    1:07
    Combo used:
    Juri (hit confirm): CH j. MK (land) c. MK xx Super
    398 DMG
    2M

    This was a horrible decision. Juri was nearly dead. Your goal at that point in the match should have been to get her out and this was your opportunity. You also wasted alot of meter in the process.

    Optimal combo:
    Juri (hit confirm): CH j. MK (land) st. MP xx MK Pinwheel (slight delay before release) xx Tag
    Bison (juggle): j. HP (land) st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher
    498 DMG
    1M

    1:35
    Combo used:
    Bison (PUNISH): st. LK xx st. HK xx Launcher
    Juri (juggle): cr. HP, j. HP (land) cr. MK xx LK Pinwheel
    326 DMG

    This was a golden opportunity for wicked meter efficient damage. Both your characters were at full health and you had just baited a DP with a meter stocked. When possible, always start a punish with a raw launcher.

    Optimal combo:
    Bison (PUNISH): Launcher
    Juri (juggle): cr. HP, j. HP (land) st. HP xx MK Pinwheel xx Tag
    Bison (juggle): j. HP (land) st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher
    533 DMG
    1M

    That's over fifty percent for 1 bar. You get my point.

    There is much more to be said about the second round, but I am very tired and this post is getting long. If you have any questions feel free to ask. Overall my primary criticism is regarding your decision making in general. Be sure whatever you do, you keep an eye on how much health your point character has and base your combo choices on that and your current stock of meter.
  • VegamanVegaman Soak in your own blood! Joined: Posts: 3,570 ✭✭
    0:23
    Combo used:
    Bison (hit confirm): cr. LK, cr. LK xx st. HK xx Launcher -
    Juri (juggle): cr. HP [whiff]
    Had Juri's juggle been completed the combo would have yielded -
    315 DMG

    Optimal:
    Bison (hit confirm): cr. LK, (link) cr. MK xx st. HK xx Launcher -
    Juri (juggle): cr. HP, jf. HP (land/pause) st. HP xx LK Pinwheel
    345 DMG

    0:40
    Combo used:
    Juri (hit confirm): HK Shikusen (land) [whiff]
    (Assuming c. MK xx LK Pinwheel) Had the combo been completed it would have yielded -
    180 DMG

    This is a common drop among developing Juri players. 180 is indeed the most meterless damage to be gained from this situation, but here is some advice to make sure you don't drop this combo again:

    If Shikusen strikes your opponent in the chest or above, c. MK xx Pinwheel will work just fine. However, the lower the hit connects the more awkward it becomes. In some situations Juri can walk forward slightly and connect the c. MK. In others, it is either impossible or prohibitively difficult to connect it at all. To remedy this, use st. MP xx Pinwheel instead. Note that using st. MP, you will need to charge the Pinwheel for a brief moment to allow both hits to connect. It is not necessary to walk forward using this method in any situation and works reliably no matter how high or low Shikusen connects.

    That said, in this situation I feel the best decision would have been to use this opportunity to bring in Bison. Here is the optimal way to do so:

    Juri (hit confirm): HK Shikusen (land) st. MP xx MK Pinwheel (slight delay before release) xx Tag
    Bison (juggle): j. HP (land) st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher
    390 DMG
    1M

    Bison actually has fancier combo options than this but they are too height and distance dependant to be reliable.

    1:07
    Combo used:
    Juri (hit confirm): CH j. MK (land) c. MK xx Super
    398 DMG
    2M

    This was a horrible decision. Juri was nearly dead. Your goal at that point in the match should have been to get her out and this was your opportunity. You also wasted alot of meter in the process.

    Optimal combo:
    Juri (hit confirm): CH j. MK (land) st. MP xx MK Pinwheel (slight delay before release) xx Tag
    Bison (juggle): j. HP (land) st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher
    498 DMG
    1M

    1:35
    Combo used:
    Bison (PUNISH): st. LK xx st. HK xx Launcher
    Juri (juggle): cr. HP, j. HP (land) cr. MK xx LK Pinwheel
    326 DMG

    This was a golden opportunity for wicked meter efficient damage. Both your characters were at full health and you had just baited a DP with a meter stocked. When possible, always start a punish with a raw launcher.

    Optimal combo:
    Bison (PUNISH): Launcher
    Juri (juggle): cr. HP, j. HP (land) st. HP xx MK Pinwheel xx Tag
    Bison (juggle): j. HP (land) st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher
    533 DMG
    1M

    That's over fifty percent for 1 bar. You get my point.

    There is much more to be said about the second round, but I am very tired and this post is getting long. If you have any questions feel free to ask. Overall my primary criticism is regarding your decision making in general. Be sure whatever you do, you keep an eye on how much health your point character has and base your combo choices on that and your current stock of meter.

    This is good stuff.....

    A tip about combos tho Emp, it's good to have an easier, less damaging combo (bnb) ready just in case you run into execution problems for any random reason. General rule of thumb, if you drop a combo twice in a match, stop trying to land that combo for the rest of the match. If you drop it at all more than 3 matches in a row... stop using it till you get it down again in training mode. Always take the guaranteed damage. If your execution is top notch, then go for the most damaging regardless of difficulty. I cannot do Vega's most damaging combo consistently because of it's difficulty. Until i get that combo down i wont try it in a match. Now i have Vega's 2nd most damaging combo down expertly. It's also pretty difficult. But I dont drop it often. If i do drop it twice in a match tho i go to Vega's 3rd most damaging combo, which is really easy to do. I do this because guaranteed damage is better than half combo damage or even worse.... getting reversaled and comboed yourself. Now if the game is on the line and you dont have enough time for 2 combos and it's borderline that the most damaging combo will kill..... you don't have a choice. You have to go for it. But if the game isnt on the line... it's better not to take unnecessary risks
    "Nothing cheaper than something free."
    "You must wait at least 28623 seconds before performing this action."
    Jun 16, 2011 -- 12:28PM, DarthEnderX wrote:
    Makoto is about to have the best day ever.
  • ShadolooDollShadolooDoll Joined: Posts: 2,919 ✭✭
    Optimal combo:
    Juri (hit confirm): CH j. MK (land) st. MP xx MK Pinwheel (slight delay before release) xx Tag
    Bison (juggle): j. HP (land) st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher
    498 DMG


    Optimal combo:
    Bison (PUNISH): Launcher
    Juri (juggle): cr. HP, j. HP (land) st. HP xx MK Pinwheel xx Tag
    Bison (juggle): j. HP (land) st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher
    533 DMG
    1M

    what? so are you saying I jump and hit with hp, then stand hp to psycho crusher? unless I'm mistaken, that's not possible with the nature of Bisons jump. In fact I just tried it in training unless I'm not understanding you.Even further, I have NEVER seen a Bison let alone a high level one do that. Does that combo work or are you doing theory? I could just not be understanding what you are telling me though.

    And as for the mk switch pinwheel combos, i need to figure out the timing because as of now its not reliable for me. Many times when I tag Bison in through her pinwheel, it doesn't work right and it either whiffs or he is unable to connect all of the normals to finish the combo.

    I'll give the stand mp thing a try, thanks!
    R.I.P. sksksksksk222

  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    what? so are you saying I jump and hit with hp, then stand hp to psycho crusher? unless I'm mistaken, that's not possible with the nature of Bisons jump. In fact I just tried it in training unless I'm not understanding you.Even further, I have NEVER seen a Bison let alone a high level one do that. Does that combo work or are you doing theory? I could just not be understanding what you are telling me though.

    And as for the mk switch pinwheel combos, i need to figure out the timing because as of now its not reliable for me. Many times when I tag Bison in through her pinwheel, it doesn't work right and it either whiffs or he is unable to connect all of the normals to finish the combo.

    I'll give the stand mp thing a try, thanks!


    Enjoy! You should try to link into Cr.Mk with both of your characters. :)
    http://zeroisbetterthanwesker.blogspot.co.uk/


    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • ShadolooDollShadolooDoll Joined: Posts: 2,919 ✭✭


    Enjoy! You should try to link into Cr.Mk with both of your characters. :)

    I appreciate that, very nice of you to make a video, but what he is telling me to do is after a pinwheel cancel from juri to jump at my opponent while he/she is in the float state, hit with heavy punch, land, then do close hp into psycho crusher



    he told me to do this

    Optimal combo:
    Bison (PUNISH): Launcher
    Juri (juggle): cr. HP, j. HP (land) st. HP xx MK Pinwheel xx Tag
    Bison (juggle): j. HP (land) st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher
    533 DMG
    1M


    im saying that I think that's not possible to my current knowledge, hence why Bison uses hell attack instead, unless Im really doing something wrong. I could show you a video of me not being able to do it if needed in training mode.
    R.I.P. sksksksksk222

  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I appreciate that, very nice of you to make a video, but what he is telling me to do is after a pinwheel cancel from juri to jump at my opponent while he/she is in the float state, hit with heavy punch, land, then do close hp into psycho crusher



    he told me to do this

    Optimal combo:
    Bison (PUNISH): Launcher
    Juri (juggle): cr. HP, j. HP (land) st. HP xx MK Pinwheel xx Tag
    Bison (juggle): j. HP (land) st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher
    533 DMG
    1M


    im saying that I think that's not possible to my current knowledge, hence why Bison uses hell attack instead, unless Im really doing something wrong. I could show you a video of me not being able to do it if needed in training mode.
    I feel slightly retarded. :P
    http://zeroisbetterthanwesker.blogspot.co.uk/


    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • Fergus2k8Fergus2k8 Let's Rock! Joined: Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭


    A set I had with Robofobe, any critiques would be nice.

    Besides DP AAing and my horrific execution with Julia and Asuka's upkicks instead of oni after j.hk > st.hk >_>, if I do hcb and end in f, I get upkicks which is pretty annoying.
    SFIV - Rose/Sakura | SFxT - Sakura/Asuka | TTT2 - Asuka/Miharu
    Injustice - Harley Quinn | UMVC3 - Chris/Hsien/Sentinel
    KoF XIII - Athena/Kula/Yuri
  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭


    A set I had with Robofobe, any critiques would be nice.

    Besides DP AAing and my horrific execution with Julia and Asuka's upkicks instead of oni after j.hk > st.hk >_>, if I do hcb and end in f, I get upkicks which is pretty annoying.
    Appreciate the video, Fergus. But could you give us a maximum of 1-3 matches that you'd like to be critiqued, please. As some of us such as Silph and Vulcan will critique your whole match, but it would be quite time consuming. :P

    obviously, if somebody decides to watch it all, then happy days.

    I mean, time stamp the video's you want us to watch. :P
    http://zeroisbetterthanwesker.blogspot.co.uk/


    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • Fergus2k8Fergus2k8 Let's Rock! Joined: Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭
    Hmmm I'll do that next time :D
    SFIV - Rose/Sakura | SFxT - Sakura/Asuka | TTT2 - Asuka/Miharu
    Injustice - Harley Quinn | UMVC3 - Chris/Hsien/Sentinel
    KoF XIII - Athena/Kula/Yuri
  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hmmm I'll do that next time :D
    Stop being a silly, yes, I called you A SILLY. :D
    Well loo, if you can wait, I'll watch the whole set, later. And then I'll respond to it.
    http://zeroisbetterthanwesker.blogspot.co.uk/


    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • Fergus2k8Fergus2k8 Let's Rock! Joined: Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭
    Ah yeah I don't mind, can do a small bit of it if you want, don't have to watch whole thing really :P.
    SFIV - Rose/Sakura | SFxT - Sakura/Asuka | TTT2 - Asuka/Miharu
    Injustice - Harley Quinn | UMVC3 - Chris/Hsien/Sentinel
    KoF XIII - Athena/Kula/Yuri
  • VegamanVegaman Soak in your own blood! Joined: Posts: 3,570 ✭✭

    Enjoy! You should try to link into Cr.Mk with both of your characters. :)
    damn you beat me to it
    "Nothing cheaper than something free."
    "You must wait at least 28623 seconds before performing this action."
    Jun 16, 2011 -- 12:28PM, DarthEnderX wrote:
    Makoto is about to have the best day ever.
  • DocDignityDocDignity Joined: Posts: 380
    btw sorry I haven't watched the other vids yet but I definitely plan to.

    Can't wait to get torn to pieces by you :D

    What a great threat. Love it.
    Also what Silph posted is really good stuff. Acually I just like him, because he's the only decent Dudley I regularly watch :)
  • Vulcan HadesVulcan Hades Flea Stance Tea-bagging Joined: Posts: 1,842
    lol but seriously don't expect much advice from me regarding Gief. I have never played a grappler in my life so it wouldn't feel right to give advice on how to play a character I know very little about. All I can do is give general advice and point out weaknesses or bad management decisions etc.

    Obviously if it's a character I play (Yoshi, Juri, Christie) then I'll be able to say a lot more things.

    Good stuff Silph. :)
    SFxT - Juri, Yoshimitsu, Christie, Asuka, Marduk, Blanka, Bison, Kuma...
    TTT2 - Yoshimitsu, Christie
  • DocDignityDocDignity Joined: Posts: 380
    lol but seriously don't expect much advice from me regarding Gief. I have never played a grappler in my life so it wouldn't feel right to give advice on how to play a character I know very little about. All I can do is give general advice and point out weaknesses or bad management decisions etc.

    No worries. At my level even general advice is helpful :)
  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No worries. At my level even general advice is helpful :)
    It's just a theory right now. I play Gief sometimes, I like the character A LOT. Now, I like to think of this moment as an EWGF. I call it that because you only have one frame to react to it (well, at least in my mind). It's the moment where you walk into LP SPD range, they turtle for that one frame and you SPD. Have you ever tried to adopt such a mentality where you'd SPD on reaction to certain things?
    http://zeroisbetterthanwesker.blogspot.co.uk/


    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • VegamanVegaman Soak in your own blood! Joined: Posts: 3,570 ✭✭
    No worries. At my level even general advice is helpful :)
    I sudo main gief so i'll give it a shot in a few. Although if you're more advanced than me in footsies and fundamentals along with just being a better gief over all...... ignore my advice.
    "Nothing cheaper than something free."
    "You must wait at least 28623 seconds before performing this action."
    Jun 16, 2011 -- 12:28PM, DarthEnderX wrote:
    Makoto is about to have the best day ever.
  • Vulcan HadesVulcan Hades Flea Stance Tea-bagging Joined: Posts: 1,842
    btw this thread idea is awesome. But it would be like a million times better in video/stream format.

    Would be awesome if Jibbo, Ryan and Tatsu could get together like maybe once a week or once every 2 weeks. Pick one of the matches being posted here or whatever, and break it down in detail on stream. Sometimes it could be a low/mid level match, other times it could be a high level match just like Ryan did with his set vs Jibbo. Except they would talk about it instead of putting youtube annotations every 10 seconds.

    I dunno, just throwing ideas out there. That kind of stuff is what we need I think. But of course, it all depends if Jibbo and the others have time for this.
    SFxT - Juri, Yoshimitsu, Christie, Asuka, Marduk, Blanka, Bison, Kuma...
    TTT2 - Yoshimitsu, Christie
  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    btw this thread idea is awesome. But it would be like a million times better in video/stream format.

    Would be awesome if Jibbo, Ryan and Tatsu could get together like maybe once a week or once every 2 weeks. Pick one of the matches being posted here or whatever, and break it down in detail on stream. Sometimes it could be a low/mid level match, other times it could be a high level match just like Ryan did with his set vs Jibbo. Except they would talk about it instead of putting youtube annotations every 10 seconds.

    I dunno, just throwing ideas out there. That kind of stuff is what we need I think. But of course, it all depends if Jibbo and the others have time for this.
    I'll try to PM JiBbo and Tatsu in that regard. Ryan has already said he will contribute, he just needs to find the time to. You know Vulcan, if you yourself are a high level player and you record on YouTube, perhaps you could start a trend? :P
    http://zeroisbetterthanwesker.blogspot.co.uk/


    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • VegamanVegaman Soak in your own blood! Joined: Posts: 3,570 ✭✭
    I'll try to PM JiBbo and Tatsu in that regard. Ryan has already said he will contribute, he just needs to find the time to. You know Vulcan, if you yourself are a high level player and you record on YouTube, perhaps you could start a trend? :P
    There's only one issue with this.....

    When i was playing AE regularly I did the same thing in the Vega forums with fellow Vega players. I did pretty detailed writeups. But 1 of 2 things happen:
    1. The majority of low to mid level players routinely make the same fundamental mistakes. Typically, it involved not blocking enough/correctly, not actively thinking during the match riding autopilot, lack of matchup knowledge, or giving away/not taking free damage... or any combination of the above.
    2. The high level players didnt have a need for it simply because they already knew how to identify their own mistakes (and typically already do DURING the actual match), and already know how to correct the mistake.

    So in the end, I really ended up just saying the same thing over and over.... ironically the exact same thing that HAV said to me over and over when I was a low level scrub trying to up my game.

    Block more
    Think more


    Not saying that doing something like this is a bad idea...... but if you're still making fundamental mistakes then it's counterproductive to work on advanced strategies and tactics. And by the time you have strong fundamentals you'll really have no need for others to critique you because you'll already be self sufficient.
    "Nothing cheaper than something free."
    "You must wait at least 28623 seconds before performing this action."
    Jun 16, 2011 -- 12:28PM, DarthEnderX wrote:
    Makoto is about to have the best day ever.
  • Vulcan HadesVulcan Hades Flea Stance Tea-bagging Joined: Posts: 1,842
    I'll try to PM JiBbo and Tatsu in that regard. Ryan has already said he will contribute, he just needs to find the time to. You know Vulcan, if you yourself are a high level player and you record on YouTube, perhaps you could start a trend? :P
    I'm a fraud. :rolleyes:

    But seriously, I can't do anything at all right now because my computer doesn't work. I can't edit videos, I can't get on skype, I can't watch streams, I can't even read the chat on Jibbo's stream (which is why you don't see me there anymore lol)..

    All I can do for now is write on the forums.
    SFxT - Juri, Yoshimitsu, Christie, Asuka, Marduk, Blanka, Bison, Kuma...
    TTT2 - Yoshimitsu, Christie
  • DocDignityDocDignity Joined: Posts: 380
    It's just a theory right now. I play Gief sometimes, I like the character A LOT. Now, I like to think of this moment as an EWGF. I call it that because you only have one frame to react to it (well, at least in my mind). It's the moment where you walk into LP SPD range, they turtle for that one frame and you SPD. Have you ever tried to adopt such a mentality where you'd SPD on reaction to certain things?
    Yeah, it's interesting. In SSF4 I used SPD so much more.

    Thing is, his footsies are amazing here (they were good in SF4 too) and a punish for a whiffed normal, even a hitconfirm from crLP nets me so much more damage than a SPD.

    Of course I still use it, your opponent always has to be scared of it. But in the magic range you were talking about it's best to usually use sLK imo.
    I tend to use it quite a bit on wakeup, roll or not doesn't make a difference:
    - raw SPD / walk back (roll) SPD
    - walk back - HK (whiff) - SPD
    - crossup/straight jump/back jump (roll) splash or knees - SPD
    - jumps as above - sLK - SPD
    - my favourite: crossup - stMP - stMP - SPD (the stMP links into itself (3x) and works as a frametrap. So if they push buttons, they usually get hit by 2-3 MP which gives you the damage of a SPD :) Oh, and you could go into stHK-Launch. If they block 2 stMP you are still in SPD range
    - ....and many more :D

    @Vegaman: I'm pretty sure your Gief is in a different league.

    @Vulcan: amazing idea!
  • Vulcan HadesVulcan Hades Flea Stance Tea-bagging Joined: Posts: 1,842
    There's only one issue with this.....

    When i was playing AE regularly I did the same thing in the Vega forums with fellow Vega players. I did pretty detailed writeups. But 1 of 2 things happen:

    1. The majority of low to mid level players routinely make the same fundamental mistakes. Typically, it involved not blocking enough/correctly, not actively thinking during the match riding autopilot, lack of matchup knowledge, or giving away/not taking free damage... or any combination of the above.
    2. The high level players didnt have a need for it simply because they already knew how to identify their own mistakes (and typically already do DURING the actual match), and already know how to correct the mistake.

    So in the end, I really ended up just saying the same thing over and over.... ironically the exact same thing that HAV said to me over and over when I was a low level scrub trying to up my game.

    Block more
    Think more

    Not saying that doing something like this is a bad idea...... but if you're still making fundamental mistakes then it's counterproductive to work on advanced strategies and tactics. And by the time you have strong fundamentals you'll really have no need for others to critique you because you'll already be self sufficient.
    Yeah, you're making some good points. It's true that there's bound to be repetition in such an exercise. A lot of people posting matches here will no doubt have similar issues (not optimizing combos, making bad decisions, poorly managing health/meter/time etc).

    So it could be pointless to always breakdown matches every week and repeat the exact same thing to every player. It would be a lot more productive and less time consuming to just make some kind of tutorial videos/podcasts that talks about those bad decisions a lot of players keep making. Giving tips and explaining various concepts to everyone at the same time instead of just focusing on 1 player match at a time.

    In other words, do what UltraChen is doing for AE/Marvel and what Aris is doing for Tekken but for SFxT instead.
    SFxT - Juri, Yoshimitsu, Christie, Asuka, Marduk, Blanka, Bison, Kuma...
    TTT2 - Yoshimitsu, Christie
  • silphsilph Joined: Posts: 267
    I appreciate that, very nice of you to make a video, but what he is telling me to do is after a pinwheel cancel from juri to jump at my opponent while he/she is in the float state, hit with heavy punch, land, then do close hp into psycho crusher



    he told me to do this

    Optimal combo:
    Bison (PUNISH): Launcher
    Juri (juggle): cr. HP, j. HP (land) st. HP xx MK Pinwheel xx Tag
    Bison (juggle): j. HP (land) st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher
    533 DMG
    1M


    im saying that I think that's not possible to my current knowledge, hence why Bison uses hell attack instead, unless Im really doing something wrong. I could show you a video of me not being able to do it if needed in training mode.
    Uploading a video of it right now.
  • VegamanVegaman Soak in your own blood! Joined: Posts: 3,570 ✭✭
    OK, here we go:


    Why not start with a shitty match :) Was quite a while ago, but I guess it does make sense to show a crap match rather than punishing scrubs.
    Before you tell me: I know that Duds punish in the corner should be different, but if the match is laggy (which it was) then I sometimes just use crMP-crMp-crMP...
    Usually I use HK-HK-LK SSB-MP Jet or HK-HK-crMP-MP Jet. Dud is fucked by lag :(

    First time i've seen the vid so i'm commenting as i see it.


    @4 sec why did you GH? Huge risk. The only 2 things Gief should use to get in is walk forward and dash forward. Trash compactor!

    @4 sec why you jump? Huge risk again.

    @8 sec another GH. I really really disagree with using GH like you do. But maybe you have a valid reason for it i'm unaware of.

    @9 why you poking with standing RH?.... and Why you poking at near full screen?

    @15 another risky jump.

    @17 another GH.... explain those plz.

    @22 you didnt respect the roll... ALWAYS respect the roll when you have the opponent cornered.... otherwise they get outta the corner and all the sudden you're in the corner.

    @31 another risky jump but this time it hurt

    @35 shoulda SPD... although in this situation EX SPD would have been the best option IMO since you had the meter. Looks like you missed it and got standing fierce tho.

    @38 I hope you keep this in mind for the future blockstrings he uses and be aware he may like to cancel into running grab (i havnt seend the whole vid at this point so dunno if you did or not)

    @45 why you respecing Hugo's space. Walk forward. Trash compactor that ass!

    @47 why did you risk eating a backbreaker by jumping?

    @49..... yeah.... that

    @51 yay you remembered! good shit

    @55 bad move to tag gief back in IMO. shoulda let him recover grey life first.

    @1:00 again you let him outta the corner. respect that roll.

    @1:24 why you not walking forward? remember the trash compactor! What was the purpose of walking back? You're giving up pressure and space.

    @1:28 another jump.....

    @ 1:30..... yeah.... another one. now look at all that space you just lost.

    @1:34 another poke with standing RH. Why? Also if you notice right after RH she's buffering cMK. This would be a great time to bait it out and go for raw launcher.

    @1:36 ...... another one of those too. Maybe you'll stop doing those now.

    @1:38 there was your shot at launcher..... Shoulda been looking for it.

    @1:41 with gief hanging in the air once again...... why?

    @1:42.... see this is why not! lol

    @1:47 smart roll.

    @1:49 wtf? Trash compactor! dont respect lariat at 3/4 screen!

    @1:50 ok this is becoming habitual now...... is there a specific reason for the walk back 2 steps into jump forward fierce at 3/4 screen risking getting backbreakered?

    @1:51 should have took 1 more step in as soon as you saw it was a neutral jump to potentially be able to lariat his splash.

    @1:52............

    @1:58 you do realize that if he'd had ex backbreakered your jump in wouldnt have connected right? Big big risk man......

    @2:01 noooooooooooooooooooooo you let him loose again....... now you gotta start all over.... actually unpaused onlt to pause in the same sec.... why you jump back?

    @2:03 still respecting that lariat.... why? iono. Should be walking forward.

    @2:04.... huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge risk!

    @2:05..... another huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge risk. That was borderline random.

    @2:11 another risky jump

    @2:14 there ya go..... pressure him. you have better normals.

    @2:15 noooooooooooooo stop giving away free space. make his ass work for it. stand your ground!

    @2:16.............

    @2:17 giving up more space

    @2:24 here we go again. GH Risky but hopefully by now you should be noticing the habitual addicted cMK he keeps using

    @2:25.........

    rest of match... same shit. There's absolutely no reason this match should have been this close. You should have completely decimated this guy.

    anyway hope this helps. ask any q's if you have them and answer any questions above if you want a response
    "Nothing cheaper than something free."
    "You must wait at least 28623 seconds before performing this action."
    Jun 16, 2011 -- 12:28PM, DarthEnderX wrote:
    Makoto is about to have the best day ever.
  • DocDignityDocDignity Joined: Posts: 380
    A lot of helpful stuff

    Great stuff, that helps a lot.

    The problem is I like to use GH to approach too much, he didn't punish it. He seemed not to AA, that's why there were so many jumps. But I think I jump general too much. I think that could improve my game quite a bit, just by stopping those unnecessary jumps.
    The stHK? Ehm, dunno :) Did I think about Hk (whiff) SPD? Strange.

    The GH-Super setup? No good?
  • EmpryreanEmpryrean ╯°□°)╯︵ (波動拳) Joined: Posts: 443
    Spoiler:

    and holy shit at my wall o text
    I put it in a spoiler to save room.
    PSN:Empryrean
    XBL:Empyraeon
    RIP Psn :(
  • VegamanVegaman Soak in your own blood! Joined: Posts: 3,570 ✭✭
    I put it in a spoiler to save room.

    it's not a pattern if it's the 2nd time he did it. And there's no way you reacted to that..... It was a guess. You got lucky it hit. wait until you see something 3-4 times before giving an answer to something that isnt on reaction. If you can react to it then by all means go for it. Personally I think you should not use raw launchers at all until you develop better footsies. It's a tool....but you're kinda trying to use it in place of footsies... which isnt good.

    also you generally do not want to give up space for free. If the opponent takes it fine. The other thing is that even at full screen it's dangerous to raw tag against most of the cast. Stay your ground, play solid and convert a poke into abc launcher if needed to get the tag in. That will prevent you from eating unnecessary damage
    "Nothing cheaper than something free."
    "You must wait at least 28623 seconds before performing this action."
    Jun 16, 2011 -- 12:28PM, DarthEnderX wrote:
    Makoto is about to have the best day ever.
  • VegamanVegaman Soak in your own blood! Joined: Posts: 3,570 ✭✭
    Great stuff, that helps a lot.

    The problem is I like to use GH to approach too much, he didn't punish it. He seemed not to AA, that's why there were so many jumps. But I think I jump general too much. I think that could improve my game quite a bit, just by stopping those unnecessary jumps.
    The stHK? Ehm, dunno :) Did I think about Hk (whiff) SPD? Strange.

    The GH-Super setup? No good?
    The best thing you can do with gief is hold that forward button down. It's slow.... but the slowness has its advantages. It makes it really hard for the opponent to cross you up from walking too far forward letting them out of the corner. If gives you time to watch the opponent. If GH was on reaction to a poke.... cool got it. Makes sense. If EX GH was on reaction to a fireball... not a problem. perfectly legit. But using it to cover space is bad for 3 reasons. It's unsafe on block unless done as a meaty. It's unsafe on hit unless done as a meaty.... and it cannot go through pokes. So by using GH to cover space you are removing your ability to react to the opponent and in turn also giving your opponent the option to react to (i think it's like 15 frames or more) startup OR the option to just block it and punish. Even if it hits chances are you're going to be punished..... so it's not a viable way to cover ground.

    As for jumping, Gief owns the ground inside SPD range. It's his. Gief also owns jump ins. When jumping you are giving up control of your character to be able to react to things and also giving that control to the opponent. Now if the opponent is throwing a high recovery fireball or sweep. Jumping in is fine if you make the correct read because it leads to solid damage. But if that isnt the case, the jumping in is a huge risk. Particularly jumping in, within the range that the opponent can AA in. Regardless of whether or not the opponent actually decides to AA. Jumping in should be a reaction to something. Not just something you do. So how do you get in? You walk. Gief is the slowest fireball in the game. I will block a good 10-15 fireballs in a row before I even consider jumping over them (unless i know i can land the jump in). Hell you dont even have to throw out pokes half the time. The threat of SPD will open up opportunities for you.

    As for sHK, I'm aware of the sHK whiff into SPD... but that's a gimmick. It's something that can be done after you condition the opponent by antiairing their jump attempts (trying to get away from SPD) with sHK enough times. That can cause the opponent to hesitate for a split sec long enough to land SPD. Unfortunately in this game SPD has a shit ton of startup. So that SF4 gimmick doesnt work as well. If you wanna land SPD grab those limbs. Which while we're talking about that... is the prime opportunity to land Super. Same time you'd land any other SPD.

    Remember that just because the opponent lets you get away with stuff doesnt mean you should keep doing it. That's how people get blown up on end of match comebacks
    "Nothing cheaper than something free."
    "You must wait at least 28623 seconds before performing this action."
    Jun 16, 2011 -- 12:28PM, DarthEnderX wrote:
    Makoto is about to have the best day ever.
  • DocDignityDocDignity Joined: Posts: 380
    Honestly, what you are saying makes so much sense.
    My post of the day! :)
    Thanks for the advice, that actually totally changed how I look at the way I play.
  • DocDignityDocDignity Joined: Posts: 380
    Doublepost. I'll have a nervous breakdown. This phone.... Aaaaarhg. Sorry.
  • VegamanVegaman Soak in your own blood! Joined: Posts: 3,570 ✭✭
    Honestly, what you are saying makes so much sense.
    My post of the day! :)
    Thanks for the advice, that actually totally changed how I look at the way I play.
    no prob. I learned what i could from Vangief and translated it over to this game.

    also... just FYI but Hugo can backbreaker any jump on the screen except the absolute max full screen jump
    "Nothing cheaper than something free."
    "You must wait at least 28623 seconds before performing this action."
    Jun 16, 2011 -- 12:28PM, DarthEnderX wrote:
    Makoto is about to have the best day ever.
  • EmpryreanEmpryrean ╯°□°)╯︵ (波動拳) Joined: Posts: 443
    stuff
    He was actually doing that for the past 2 games, I'm sorry I didn't mention that before `-`
    PSN:Empryrean
    XBL:Empyraeon
    RIP Psn :(
  • VegamanVegaman Soak in your own blood! Joined: Posts: 3,570 ✭✭
    He was actually doing that for the past 2 games, I'm sorry I didn't mention that before `-`
    ahh so there was a reason. As long as there was a reason.
    "Nothing cheaper than something free."
    "You must wait at least 28623 seconds before performing this action."
    Jun 16, 2011 -- 12:28PM, DarthEnderX wrote:
    Makoto is about to have the best day ever.
  • ShadolooDollShadolooDoll Joined: Posts: 2,919 ✭✭

    OH okay, thank you so much! Yeah i need to practice getting the pinwheel switch timing down. Can you please give me some tips? And it has to be hk pinwheel?
    R.I.P. sksksksksk222

  • silphsilph Joined: Posts: 267
    OH okay, thank you so much! Yeah i need to practice getting the pinwheel switch timing down. Can you please give me some tips? And it has to be hk pinwheel?
    You're welcome! :D
    Following Juri's j. HP, you need to pause for a split second before executing st. HP xx MK Pinwheel. If you notice, immediately after executing the pinwheel I tap MP + MK three times. There is no precise timing needed here. Mash it if you have to.

    You need to jump forward with Bison the second he comes in and immediately following that immediately begin charging your Psycho Crusher. Try to hit your opponent with j. HP as late as possible to give you more float height to work with. That air time is plenty to execute st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher as you land. You have a bit of leeway to walk backwards a split second before hitting HP as well if you are more comfortable that way.
  • ShadolooDollShadolooDoll Joined: Posts: 2,919 ✭✭
    You're welcome! :D
    Following Juri's j. HP, you need to pause for a split second before executing st. HP xx MK Pinwheel. If you notice, immediately after executing the pinwheel I tap MP + MK three times. There is no precise timing needed here. Mash it if you have to.

    You need to jump forward with Bison the second he comes in and immediately following that immediately begin charging your Psycho Crusher. Try to hit your opponent with j. HP as late as possible to give you more float height to work with. That air time is plenty to execute st. HP xx HP Psycho Crusher as you land. You have a bit of leeway to walk backwards a split second before hitting HP as well if you are more comfortable that way.

    just tried it. It works. Thank you so much, this is going to really come in handy! I guess switching from crouch hp and not low forward is easier. Because im not screwing it up.
    R.I.P. sksksksksk222

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