A Master Class In Juri Han: Matchups, Fuzzy, Unblockables, Safe Jumps (In Progress)

genkibot · October 2012

*Please be aware that this is currently unfinished. I'm running out of patience in regards to storing all my findings on separate notepads and word documents so I've decided to create the thread and add information progressively. Once I'm done (hopefully) we can have this stickied and everyone will have one organised resource in regards to everything Ms.Han.*

So... Basically, due to the facts that a) Juri's vast changes for AE v.2012 make a lot of the current match-up information out of date and b) People needed to search multiple threads, sticky or otherwise, for information that could be vital or at least of some use for specific matches. I decided to create a new one with an eye on being easier to read, less wall-of-text and more short and sweet in style, yet more informative with a legend containing what is basically a quick FAQ in regards to character specifics with Juri's matches, a small encylopedia with the majority of available 'fuzzy guard' setups against all characters vulnerable to them, a list of safe jump setups, unblockables, fake crossups etc. I'm hoping to add max damage punishes (0 and 2 bars only) for typically used moves by each character in the matchup section too.

If I've made any mistakes with listing anything, you feel there's more to add, or you stumble across new information, feel free to tell me about it and I will update ASAP.

5f+ Reversals:

Anywhere -

Back Throw: Walk (either way) a little, Jump in w/ Roundhouse(HK).

Sweep: Walk (either way) a little, Jump in w/ Roundhouse(HK).

Mid Stage Only -

Forward Throw: Wait until opponent hits the ground - Forward Dash x2, Jump in w/

Roundhouse(HK).

Corner Only -

Forward Throw: Back Dash, C.Strong(MP)/FS.Strong(MP) whiff, Jump in w/ Roundhouse(HK).

Forward Throw: Forward Dash, Fuhajin store whiff, Neutral jump w/ Roundhouse(HK).

Spoiler:

Match-Up/Character Specifics Legend:

1. Does S.Jab(LP) work on this character when crouching?

2. Does Juri's B'n'B work on this character mid screen? *

3. Do Juri's instant overheads (fuzzy guard) work on this character? **

4. Can Juri dash under this character's fireballs?

5. Are there Unblockables and/or Fake Crossups on this character? ***

* CS.Strong(MP)/C.Forward(MK), Low Release, C.Forward(MK), Roundhouse(HK) Senpusha.

** Refer to the Fuzzy Guard Encyclopedia for specifics.

*** Refer to the Unblockables/Fake Crossups list for specifics.

Spoiler:

genkibot · October 2012

Reserved.

genkibot · October 2012

Reserved.

genkibot · October 2012

Reserved.

genkibot · October 2012

Reserved.

genkibot · October 2012

Reserved.

genkibot · October 2012

Reserved.

genkibot · October 2012

Reserved.

iamPowPow · October 2012

Yay, was waiting for this for a while. gogo genkibot <3

venfayth · October 2012

Forward Throw -> Forward Dash x4 Cr.MP is meaty on the cast

genkibot · October 2012

dash x4, c.strong is meaty but doesn't hit on the last active frame ala. the other setups which give much better frame advantage (+7/8). it allows 2x c.strong or c.strong, c.forward and even c.strong, c.fierce on the bigger characters. i believe you can get 2x c.strong from the dash x4 setup if you cancel every dash perfectly, leaving it at most probably +6. that's why i chose not to add it, though if you think it's vital i will put it :)

venfayth · October 2012

Ahh I see. The only other thing I'd say then is that there isn't really another forward throw > meaty normal setup, so it still could be useful to know. Then again, dashing up after throwing them full screen is probably one of the first things people try when they want to stay aggressive. Up to you~

genkibot · October 2012

you make a fair point, added and with credit :P

iamPowPow · October 2012

Is it worth mentioning unblockables etc are corner specific or not? (Or are they all corner-only by definition)

genkibot · October 2012

always corner only. sorry i didn't mention that haha

venfayth · October 2012

unless you're cammy ._.

Rec_rm · October 2012

This thread is not only fantastic, but if it is completed I'm totally putting the shortcut to this page on the first page of my phone. That said, I do have one small recommendation for the format.

I really like the idea of the 'matchup at a glance' box. However, the max punish section takes up more then half of the box and is not really that easy to read for someone looking for a down and dirty overview, and especially for someone who is already very familiar with Juri combos. As well I'm already seeing a ton of repeated combos even just in the rufus section. Guerenteed this will only increase as more characters get filled out. Repeat combos equals unnecessary clutter, and frankly more work.

In particular I'm thinking of the c.hp punisher, and the bnb fuj combo.

I think it would cut the typing required for this project in half if combos were moved to their own space like the fuzzies. Then simply referred to the combos based on their first hit. In almost all cases the combo is completely determined by the first hit and resources available. ofc in situations where the combo is character specific (such as weird hitboxes) then the full combo needs to be written out.

ex)

Ultra 1 (Block) -

No meter + Fuhajin: Walk forward, S.Strong(MP)
ELSE: C.Fierce(HP)

then the full combos would be listed in the combo section along with damage/stun etc.

Once again, love the thread, and would love to see this completed. I'm fairly mediocre at this game, but I am more then willing to help out in any way I can.

genkibot · October 2012

this is something I've been thinking about already and I agree with you, although at the same time they can repeat a lot, they can also get quite specific. In terms of matchup information I already had previously; I actually deleted it in minds of starting again with further knowledge and other changes etc so it will still take a while. I have been quite busy over the last 3/4 days so haven't had the chance to work on anything, but as I get going again and doing more matches I'll be able to come to a better conclusion. Thanks for the compliments and suggestions though, I appreciate both a lot :)

genkibot · October 2012

updated with Cammy and Chun Li match ups and Ideal Punishes section to remove clutter.

venfayth · October 2012

Pretty sure Cl.MK is a great meaty move against rose, it covers every option:

Backdash: Second hit will knock rose out of the air.
Focus backdash: First hit is absorbed, second hit will knock rose out of the air. (Note: If they dash too slowly, the invincibility will cover the second hit. If they do it fast enough, the invincibility ends before the second hit becomes active)
EX Soul Throw: Although Juri is airborne, this move will whiff and go straight over her, or get hit by the second hit.
EX Soul Spiral: If properly timed, the second hit will knock Rose out of it. If you do CL.MK too early, the second hit will fire during Soul Spirals invincibility
Ultra 2: Meaty moves beat U2.
Throw: You're airborne!

Super and Ultra 1 both beat it, but that should be pretty obvious.

Only thing to note is that if she crouch blocks, the second hit will whiff, leaving you vulnerable for a moment. Thankfully, this is the only scenario you need to react to, so you can cancel it into fuhajin store.

iamPowPow · November 2012

Yo genki, don't bail on this. Get to work! :D

Lion_Jak · November 2012

I think he gave us enough information to work on a bunch of things, gather matchup info etc.. I dont have work today so I'm gonna just gather a bunch of information from past threads, tier list thread and stuff and make a big post. Brb.. Genki might just be busy with life.

genkibot · December 2012

what he said. i've got a lot of shit going on atm that's a lot more important than fighting games. being pressured into spoon feeding people isn't exactly the best way to convince me to make time to work on it either. be patient please.

as LJ said there's tonnes there that i would think only a small amount of you have implemented into your game. work with what's there and your juri will improve anyways.

Runefyst · December 2012

ZOMG, this thread is fantastic. I've finally started taking the time to properly improve my Juri, and updated info like this is a great help. I want to bring a stronger Juri presence to my local scene. Thanks genki!! Looking forward to more. ^_^

Shiroyasha · December 2012

I would really appreciate the oni and akuma matchup details.

Diaphone · January 3

Thanks alot genkibot, this is really useful stuff. Anyways, I've been compiling this stuff for my notes, and I couldn't get a few of the character specific setups (Fuzzy guard j.mp from blocked jumpin) to connect. The characters with one * by them (for example adon or guy). Does anyone know how to get this to work, or does it just not work?

kdashrlz · January 4

There´s a Fuzzy guard in Balrog too:

cr HK, LK Senpusha(whiff), j MP

Diaphone · January 5

^Yeah I saw that in one of the JP videos recently posted. I've been testing it out, it works on rufus and juri and a few other characters as well. But you have to sweep them from pretty close distance for it to work, so it's not really useful off a raw sweep.

ChibixD · January 20

I'm having problems doing the fthrow dash st LK whiff senpusha into jump forward, they walk under me almost every time, should I do my aerial earlier in the jump? Or am I messing up the timint on the (dash st LK whiff senpusha into jump forward)?

iamPowPow · January 21

There´s a Fuzzy guard in Balrog too:

cr HK, LK Senpusha(whiff), j MP

That's not how fuzzy guard works. I think you mean instant overhead?

Diaphone · January 21

ChibixD, post: 7917969, member: 62385 wrote:

I'm having problems doing the fthrow dash st LK whiff senpusha into jump forward, they walk under me almost every time, should I do my aerial earlier in the jump? Or am I messing up the timint on the (dash st LK whiff senpusha into jump forward)?

Haha, it took me awhile to get what you were talking about. The notation says to do a lk pinwheel, not whiff a st.lk. The setup is forward dash, LK pinwheel, then jump forward.

Diaphone · January 21

iamPowPow, post: 7922053, member: 55810 wrote:

That's not how fuzzy guard works. I think you mean instant overhead?

It's fuzzy guard because it hits them as if they were standing, because when characters wake up in SF4 the first frame when they wake up is standing. Instant overhead works when the opponent is crouching (like Cammy's nj.lk), and isn't dependent on the opponent being in a standing state.

iamPowPow · January 21

For the dash pinwheel, you need to input the pinwheel during the last part of your dash, you essentially cancel the last 2 frames of your dash with pinwheel. This is essential for timing.

Lion_Jak · January 30

Trying to gather a list of unblockables/fake cross ups that work on juri. To help Juri players know setups and work against them. Will edit occasionally as I find things.

Cody:

C.Viper:
Reverse-blockable (fake cross up):Forward throw (corner) > LK burn kick (regular, grounded version) > j.HK (only HK tested)

Fei Long:
UNBLOCKABLES

VS. Juri & Ibuki
Backthrow walkback slightly, whiff st lp, jump foward mk.

Gen

1. Hard gekiro, wiff light gekiro, medium gekiro
2. Forward Throw, wiff crane sweep, medium Oga
3. Forward throw, dash and walk 2 frames, wiff sMP jump Mk

Lion_Jak · January 31

Man.. Was goin through the adon forum... Saw someone who stole my avatar... I'm not mad tho...

/just a lil

The-Olympian · January 31

Cammy back throw juri to the corner. Whiff far hp, then jump lk. Try to get out.

Lion_Jak · January 31

The-Olympian, post: 7957735, member: 13694 wrote:

Cammy back throw juri to the corner. Whiff far hp, then jump lk. Try to get out.

Ex kasatushi?

The-Olympian · January 31

Lion_Jak, post: 7957876, member: 44249 wrote:

Ex kasatushi?

Lol what is this? Ex counter?

It auto corrects to the wrong direction (back into the corner). Jlk is unblockable.

Ex pw gets stuffed. Didn't try to focus dash forward.

Lion_Jak · January 31

The-Olympian, post: 7957931, member: 13694 wrote:

Lol what is this? Ex counter?

It auto corrects to the wrong direction (back into the corner). Jlk is unblockable.

Ex pw gets stuffed. Didn't try to focus dash forward.

Yea ex counter sorry. But even if we now know about it Juri can't press the other direction and escape it? Or would it always go the wrong direction?

The-Olympian · January 31

Yes. Hold the corner direction to get out (it will auto correct). But... Then it becomes a mix up cause I can strike from the same setup (safe strike) , if u hold back, u corner ur self.

Anyway this setup is very situational as u must backthrow juri INTO the corner. Again jlk is unblockable.

By the way Sakura corner setups post ex tatsu.. Will cause ex counter to behave in a similar manner (if u hold away from the corner it will wrongly auto correct to the corner).

Boita-carton · January 31

This is what I have

gen:

Spoiler:

hk gekiro?, 1 step forward?, whiff crane hp, j.hk

akuma corner:

Spoiler:

Throw - dash x 2 -

Early j.MK = Fake cross up
Late j.MK = True Cross up

Spoiler:

DF throw, dash, ex DF divekick (1f block forward)

cody:

Spoiler:

Timing: after a fwd grab, walk forward and jump just before Cody's leg meets the other. j.mk

hakan:

Spoiler:

oil dive which one?, dash, backdash, j.hk

cammy:

Spoiler:

backthrow, walk 1 step, whiff c.lp, peak of jump divekick

sakura:
off otoshi x 2 in corner : backjump, dash, j. hp (fake crossup) / j.mk (a little delayed if necessary)

venfayth · February 6

Can you armor cancel ex parry into regular parry?

T00LMAN TAYL0R · February 13

The-Olympian wrote: »

Yes. Hold the corner direction to get out (it will auto correct). But... Then it becomes a mix up cause I can strike from the same setup (safe strike) , if u hold back, u corner ur self.

Anyway this setup is very situational as u must backthrow juri INTO the corner. Again jlk is unblockable.

By the way Sakura corner setups post ex tatsu.. Will cause ex counter to behave in a similar manner (if u hold away from the corner it will wrongly auto correct to the corner).

This is when it is helpful to know how to Armor Cancel into FSE since then it should work as a punish or at least make juri able to block Cammys attacks after landing. The problem is, is there any one of us Juri users out there who can Armor Cancel FSE regularly?

Lion_Jak · February 13

It would be much harder to armor cancel into FSE when dealing with unblockables where your inputs could easily be mixed up. I do armor cancel into ex pinwheel and FSE often. Ex pinwheel being for facing jump ins and FSE for dealing with wake up fireball chip.

T00LMAN TAYL0R · February 13

I swear I think that's one thing I can't quite master for her yet. For some reason, it only came out during vortex crossups on my wakeup. I mean, I cant fully grasp the armor cancel aspect yet.

genkibot · February 26

Diaphone said:

Thanks alot genkibot, this is really useful stuff. Anyways, I've been compiling this stuff for my notes, and I couldn't get a few of the character specific setups (Fuzzy guard j.mp from blocked jumpin) to connect. The characters with one * by them (for example adon or guy). Does anyone know how to get this to work, or does it just not work?

At the top of the fuzzy list, there's a description of what each star means. This one tells you what's different about the setup. I don't post things that don't work, so if it doesn't work for you, you're doing something wrong.

kdashrlz said:

There´s a Fuzzy guard in Balrog too:

cr HK, LK Senpusha(whiff), j MP

I can't remember if I posted why, but yes, I know these setups and am going to put them in the character specifics for those particular matchups as there's no point having a whole section on the list that's dedicated to 3 characters.

Edit** Tried to start fixing the thread because the new site ruined it, character limit won't let me so now it's even worse off. gg srk.

Shiroyasha · February 27

double post ._.

Shiroyasha · February 27

genkibot said:

Diaphone said:

Thanks alot genkibot, this is really useful stuff. Anyways, I've been compiling this stuff for my notes, and I couldn't get a few of the character specific setups (Fuzzy guard j.mp from blocked jumpin) to connect. The characters with one * by them (for example adon or guy). Does anyone know how to get this to work, or does it just not work?

At the top of the fuzzy list, there's a description of what each star means. This one tells you what's different about the setup. I don't post things that don't work, so if it doesn't work for you, you're doing something wrong.

kdashrlz said:

There´s a Fuzzy guard in Balrog too:

cr HK, LK Senpusha(whiff), j MP

I can't remember if I posted why, but yes, I know these setups and am going to put them in the character specifics for those particular matchups as there's no point having a whole section on the list that's dedicated to 3 characters.

Edit** Tried to start fixing the thread because the new site ruined it, character limit won't let me so now it's even worse off. gg srk.

you're finally back! all hail to the bot

Diaphone · February 27

genkibot wrote: »

Diaphone said: 
Thanks alot genkibot, this is really useful stuff. Anyways, I've been compiling this stuff for my notes, and I couldn't get a few of the character specific setups (Fuzzy guard j.mp from blocked jumpin) to connect. The characters with one * by them (for example adon or guy). Does anyone know how to get this to work, or does it just not work? 
At the top of the fuzzy list, there's a description of what each star means. This one tells you what's different about the setup. I don't post things that don't work, so if it doesn't work for you, you're doing something wrong. 
 

 
kdashrlz said: 
There´s a Fuzzy guard in Balrog too: 

 
 

 
cr HK, LK Senpusha(whiff), j MP 
 
 
I can't remember if I posted why, but yes, I know these setups and am going to put them in the character specifics for those particular matchups as there's no point having a whole section on the list that's dedicated to 3 characters. 
 
 
 
Edit** Tried to start fixing the thread because the new site ruined it, character limit won't let me so now it's even worse off. gg srk.

Ahh perhaps I didnt make myself clear enough. I meant i couldn't get the setups to work on the characters with the*, taking into account that the nj.hp doesnt work
Is there some type of trick to landing this? I was doing the j.mp after a blocked fj.rh

genkibot · February 28

the jump in is earlier than it would be against other characters, it's a very specific area that you have to hit to make it work.

GooseMoose · March 20

Not sure if Option Select counts towards setups, but I believe its similar enough. I don't have anything new, and this is pretty basic stuff, but It'd be nice to have it written down somewhere just in case I forget.

Here is a Sweep Option Select thats meant to catch back dashes:
Set up after sweep: Jump immediately whiff a normal (I use Jump medium/heavy), [cr.lp or cr.lk], [cr. lp or cr. lk + sweep], [far standing lk. xx lk/mk/ex pinwheel].
Set up after back throw: Jump immediately whiff a normal (I use Jump medium/heavy), [cr.lp or cr.lk], [cr. lp or cr. lk + sweep], [far standing lk. xx lk/mk/ex pinwheel].

To see if you time the meaty, cr.lp or cr.lk correctly, set the dummy to jump. If you hit him in pre-jump frames, and hes grounded, then you're timing is correct, honestly it is pretty generous as it works on Adon and Cammy as well.

Characters it works on: [y/n]
Ryu [y]
Ken [y]
E. Honda [y]
Ibuki [n]
Makoto [n]
Dudley [y]
Seth [n]
Gouken [y]
Akuma [y]
Gen [y]
Dan [n]
Sakura [y]
Oni [y]
Yun [y]
Juri [y]
Chun li [n]
Dhalsim [y]
Abel [y]
C. Viper [y]
M. Bison [y]
Sagat [y]
Cammy [n]
Dhalsim [y]
Cody [y]
Guy [n]
Hakan [y] with or without oil.
Yang [y]
E. Ryu [y]
Guile [y]
Blanka [y/n], works for his command dash, doesn't work for his backdash.
Zangief [y]
Rufus [y]
El Fuerte [n]
Vega [y/n], works for his backdash, doesn't work for his command dashes [Yeaaoww]
Balrog [y]
Fei Long [y]
T. Hawk [y]
Adon [y]
Rose [n]

Apologies for a long list and if this stuff is pretty basic, for those who are lazy, the OS works on everyone but: Ibuki, Makoto, Seth, Dan, Chun li, Cammy, Guy, Blanka, Vega, El Fuerte, Rose.

A Master Class In Juri Han: Matchups, Fuzzy, Unblockables, Safe Jumps (In Progress)

Comments