Tips for dealing with zoning?

ZeldiasZeldias The UntitledJoined: Posts: 80
I need some help for dealing with Peacock's zoning. Scrubby on my part, but I'm just not sure what I can do to move in on it. Seems like everything I do meets a falling item and Garbage Day, and as soon as I get touched, I'm supered. I play Parasoul, and tried some other stuff to mix it up (No Man for example), and I didn't find it helped so much.

I'm tired of being free, guys. Any help would be appreciated.

Also practice matches would be fabulous.

Comments

  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,686
    Stop doing telegraphed jumps, for one. With Parasoul, mix up long range tears with the Shield Soldier and Bike Soldier to try and force Peacock to move. In general, you need to make it to mid, then try to get in from there;the constant jumps weren't doing it. We played some games a while ago; if you mixed in dashes with the jumps at mid then you would have made it inside more often.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • ZeldiasZeldias The Untitled Joined: Posts: 80
    I was gonna message you about it, but it seemed like too much of a question to ask on XBL. I know I was jumping too much. I'm super-rusty (think the last time I was reliably playing was a bit after EVO), but I've always had trouble with Peacock. I was being dumb and not thinking; I feel like I was so excited to get matches period that I just got dumb, then I was getting mad at myself and getting dumber.

    I'll keep it in mind. One problem I know I have with Parasoul is that I rely too much on that jumping HP. I've always been fairly dumb about that, but I managed to see my way through it anyways. Much appreciated and thanks again for the games. Mind if I friend you? The only folks I have currently to play often have no idea what they're doing. I need the beatings to remember wtf I'm doing instead of getting away with murder.
  • MyLifeIsAnRPGMyLifeIsAnRPG The Cerebella Ninja Joined: Posts: 1,073
    Bike soldier and shield soldier are key with h bike being more important than shield. Remember bike soldier is invulnerable to projectiles so once he is out Peacock has to either block or jump him. This gives you a short Window where she won't be throwing projectiles. Use this to start making your way in. Or use it to start some napalm shot spam of your own but remember she can reliably out zone you so napalm shots will mostly be used to give you even more time to get in. On a bike hit you get a free combo of choice. Make it count and go for resets as positioning matters more than damage in this match up. Don't let Peacock get full screen on you. Just pester her with dash under resets and high low mix up till she dies

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  • ZeldiasZeldias The Untitled Joined: Posts: 80
    That used to be what I'd do with Val/Para; Bike Soldier, run in, do stuff.

    Bleh. I think I was just mad at myself for being stupid and inflated the situation greater than it was. Now that I'm calm and not pissed off at myself, the things I should've done look clear. Don't jump like a moron, ease in.

    I don't think I'm used to playing against a Peacock with Cerecopter, weird as that sounds. I'm more accustomed to either Napalm Pillar assist or Double's Butt Dive so I think suddenly getting trapped in Cerecopter was making me feel helpless.

    It was an embarrassing set of games to lose in front of the girlfriend :-P. Who heckled the hell out of me and told me to go back to practicing KoF.
  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭
    A good peacock covers both ground an air at the exact same time so the jump/dash strat isnt going to work well.

    The way to get in on peacock... Which is how you deal with her zoning... By not dealing with it...

    Is to use your characters invincible to projectile moves or armor moves... This is the only way i know how to get in on a good peacock and its the only way ive seen people get in on a good peacock...

    Against my friends peacock i can literally sit there and mash 2p on the ground and not even move but then when i try to jump im getting stuff in theface as well...

    Dash or jump strat works best when you have an armored move on the ground like bellas headbutt to threaten ground with aomething that peacock actually has troubles handling... Which you can then switch up to simple jumping when shes looking for armor.

    Flia can trade with peacock by using her ringlet spikes, getting the knockdown and then advancing on peacock while shes down.

    Parasoul has bike and soldier... Soldier is primarily to get out an assist without it being interrupted on startup... Soldier isnt that great against peacock cause she can still overload the screen with garbage and just wait for soldier to go away... Plus her item drop ignores soldier, so parasoul that tries to use soldier then shots just gets items dropped on her head.


    Bike on the other hand is very good against peacock as it forces peacock to either block OR jump and peacock cant throw any projectiles besides item release while jumping..

    Te way to use bike is to try and foster a frame advantage... In example if your napalm shots are being blocked by peacock or are dispersing close to peacock...then you have the fireball advantage... Momentarily. If you throw out a bike right here peacock is in a bad situation cause if she throws a garbage the bike will most likely hit her and cause knockdown thus letting para in off the hard knockdown.


    If you dont have frame advantage while calling bike chances are that your bike will get stuffed in startup.


    Best way to try and get frame advantage that ive seen is to throw out a hornet bomber then napalm shot then bike or just throw a bike right after the bomber.


    Parasoul really cannot compete projectile for projectile against peacock... Peacock will overload parasoul easily especially since peacock can always easily grab the advantage with a simple lvl1 item drop then s.hp xx garbage


    But para can actually put up a decent enough fight against peacock to make her make mistakes and allow a frame advantaged bike out... Once a frame advantaged bike is out, para soul has a huge advantage for a short time... Use it wisely.




    -dime
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,686
    Peacock can still bird/shotgun/bear trap in the air (all projectiles), projectiles like George's Day Out are still in play and most importantly imo, she can just Poke the bike and remove it, which isn't very hard to do. Bike is good, but it doesn't make Peacock helpless which is why you need to follow it up immediately. Best option imo is to use the Bike to set-up your approach to mid, where Parasol stomps Peacock (umbrella and long legs vs stubby limbs and a pie...) and from there use your pokes to get into close range, where Peacock gets stomped even harder. Mid is good because Peacock has to be more cautious about what she's throwing out, since one bad move can let the opponent in.

    A good sniper super on a Garbage Day or projectile toss works from long range too if you can get it. It's not invincible, but the sniper always shoots after start-up, so even if Peacock tries to respond with Argus, you'll trade and crumple her so you can dash straight in.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭
    Peacock can still bird/shotgun/bear trap in the air (all projectiles), projectiles like George's Day Out are still in play and most importantly imo, she can just Poke the bike and remove it, which isn't very hard to do. Bike is good, but it doesn't make Peacock helpless which is why you need to follow it up immediately. Best option imo is to use the Bike to set-up your approach to mid, where Parasol stomps Peacock (umbrella and long legs vs stubby limbs and a pie...) and from there use your pokes to get into close range, where Peacock gets stomped even harder. Mid is good because Peacock has to be more cautious about what she's throwing out, since one bad move can let the opponent in.

    A good sniper super on a Garbage Day or projectile toss works from long range too if you can get it. It's not invincible, but the sniper always shoots after start-up, so even if Peacock tries to respond with Argus, you'll trade and crumple her so you can dash straight in.



    Maaaaan.... I really dont know what to say to this without being rude.


    Get to mid range???

    Thats OBVIOUS... All characters are trying to get to mid range and closer versus peacock... So that advice is like telling someone who asks how do i keep out zangief with whoever, you saying " get to full screen and stay away"... Thats obvious man and it isnt advice. Saying things use this to counter this, that to counter that, hit his st.mp with your cr.mk... Etc etc. is the way to describe matchups. Not "keep gief out, try to get in on sim"

    As far as your other advice is concerned, i find it mostly obvious as well, but i do have a question: what attack are you using to beat parasouls bike with peacock? I mean lets not even go into the ramifications that you shouldnt even have the chance to hit it anyway nor does it do any good as when you attack you plant yourself to the ground which is what parasoul wants... Peacock to stay still and not call georges... Whether or not peacock kills a bike with an attack or not parasoul is following the bike anyway.... Like an assist and attacking the damn thing isnt going to do a whole lot of good if parasoul is following it up with a jumping hp... Which she should naturally be doing of course... Its what the parasouls i play against do... Its what i do... I couldnt care less if someone attacked it and killed it cause they still planted themselves on the ground, so i still get what i want: NO PROJECTILES BEING SPAWNED ONCE BIKE IS ON SCREEN.

    I mean that advice " use bike to setup your approach to mid" thats what i already said in the above post... Of course you are going to follow it...parasoul cant beat peacock from fullscreen so she HAS TO FOLLOW IT. And killing a bike that is followed is folly imho... Unless you have a strat that youd like to share... Killing it if it isnt being followed is decent, but thats rare cause its always followed...

    Sniper to hit garbage is completely a guess and is generally a desperate tactic from what ive seen... If its reactable then ok all good. But i havent seen it being reactable to... And a blocked sniper is going to get hit by argus x 2 everytime is peacock has the meter for it... Which she should. But sometimes desperation is all one has, still though, its just kinda really obvious. But youve played the player here maybe his lvl is really low and he needs to be told these kinds of simple things... I dont know, all i know is that advice you gave me in mikes thread was ... Er yeah i already do ALL those things you said, cause they are obvious...doesnt work very well though cause of the fact that peacock can cover both ground and air with a multitude of patterns... Here ill list most of them as i know them... They dont newcessarily cover both at the exact same time, some do some dont but they all have the ability to cover one while covering the other right afterward which is what makes getting in on peacock with a vertical invincible assist so damn hard to get in on:


    1. Call invulnerabe vert assist ( these cover both ground and air)
    2. St.hp xx air show
    3. St.hp xx item drop
    4.j.hk
    5.j.hp (hits air, moves backwards versus ground dashes
    6. Gdo in play, any anti air covers both options since gdo covers the ground for so long.
    7. Somewhat well timed gdo call can anti air and if it doesnt have to it simply covers the ground... So it ends up somewhat weakly covering both options.
    8. lvl 2 or higher item drop
    9. George at the airshow when opponent is about 3/4-1/2 screen, hits them on the ground, hits them if they jump forward, covers both options when spaced right, doesnt cover dashes so is primarily used when the opponent is using a bait or jump strat instead of a bait or jump or dash strat.
    10.teleport towards the opponent... Covers both forward dashing and forward jumping, baiting beats it, but baiting isnt jumping forward or dashng forward, its neutral double jumping or just sitting there to bait it... Which of course bombs cover.

    And there are probably more in descending order of effectiveness, the point being peacock has alot of ways to cover ground and air sometimes at the same exact time sometimes one first then quickly the other... The only things that dashing in is effective against is lvl 1 drops and raw airshows... Thats it. If a gdo is out, dashes are out. If item drop is lvl 2 or higher dashing is incredibly unsafe as well, if peacock does st.hp it hits the dash and forces block or hit, boxcar hits dash, bang x 3 also hits dash... Dashing is one of the hardest ways to get in on peacock with cause of the fact that she covers the ground so well... Pretty much everything she has covers the ground.


    Now, dashing behind something invulnerable to fireballs is a good way in like a hornet bomber or a bike or a an armored bella punch... But generally speaking, its usually the other player waiting on the peacock to make a mistake in order to be let in.


    In general the way to move in on a peacock without using invulnerable stuff is to combine dashing with jumping AND baiting. If all you do is dash or jump youll get ported on all day and and you will get owned by damn near a perfect till you learn to bait the teleport... Once you start to bait the teleport though you open yourself up to george spam... Basically anything you do that isnt invulnerable and moves forward, peacock has great answers for.


    One theoretical way for parasoul to fight peacock for frame advantaged bike that i just came up with would be to super jump forward and throw out hk tears... Peacock would need to vacate the space in order to not be hit/put in blockstun by the explosion... This might actually be a decent start cause the only projectile that peacock could stop this with directly would be item drop...


    - dime
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
  • SnugglesSnuggles Joined: Posts: 24
    Most of this was tl;dr since I don't have time. If you catch me online though I'd be glad to play a SoloPeacock against you so you can practice. I'm on the SRK Metatag and the aBOBSG tag. Send me an invite any time I'm on.

    The Egret Bike is probably the move that makes Parasoul a good counter-pick for Peacock. Throw that out and pretty much just dash in behind it, jumping when you have to. If you have to stop half way to block, no big deal. Take a bit of cheap damage, throw out another Bike and rushdown again. Eventually Peacock will hit the corner and have two options. Teleport or rushdow. Once you reach that point, you've got the advantage as long as you don't let Peacock get away.

    Patience is key. Eventually there will be an opening, or Peacock will get into a rhythm and you can predict what will happen next. You will slowly be able to move in on the kill. If you aren't careful, you will probably eat an AA and be back at square one.

    GT: KoloradoKush420
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,686
    Maaaaan.... I really dont know what to say to this without being rude.
    - dime

    Just be rude if you must, I don't really mind as long as discussion is moving. I'm trying to give general advice and focus on specifics as opposed to just specific counters without anything else. If it's obvious to you, that's great. But it may not be obvious to others, like Zeldius, which is why I'm posting it up. I'm using st. jab to destroy the bike and it's so slow that you can usually charge an item before dealing with it , which is what I go for. And I keep pushing mid for Parasol specifically because Parasol is far stronger than Peacock at mid and Peacock has next to nothing to beat her there.

    Let's not forget that Peacock isn't only filling the screen with garbage; it doesn't take much time for her to put shit on the screen and then rush you from behind it all.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • TerminiTermini Play Skullgirls, ya jerk. Joined: Posts: 55
    Flia can trade with peacock by using her ringlet spikes, getting the knockdown and then advancing on peacock while shes down.
    I can't believe I never thought to do this. I must be a real life idiot or something.
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  • DiscoSharkDiscoShark Joined: Posts: 257
    I can't believe I never thought to do this. I must be a real life idiot or something.

    Fun fact, Filia's Ringlet Spike goes underneath Peacock's Bang Bang Bang as well, it's the only move I think that can.
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  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,686
    Filia has Gregor Samson; that's enough to make raw H Bang a risk. Ringlet Spike xx Gregor Samson just makes it even better; spike her preferred range and confirm into super.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • shiningnegroshiningnegro Joined: Posts: 1,003
    I don't have any Parasoul specific tips, so I'll just say be patient, watch the order the Peacock is placing things out so you can see where the gaps are to get in. Keep eyes on the falling objects. Until your at your preferred range keep your defense strong. When you got the pressure on them react to that teleport, delay as much as you can so you fall for the fake but be on your toes.
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  • EmuchuEmuchu Teach me something Joined: Posts: 160
    I play games against TJgamer, a dedicated Peacock / Cerebella player pretty often.

    I use a team of Parasoul / Cerebella / Double, and the two of us tend to break even in wins.

    Here's how our matches tend to go:

    Round Start

    At the start of a match, TJ tends to do one of two things. In a new set, he likes to jump back and j.HP (shotgun) while calling Excellabella (anti-air grab) assist to make space. If I'm calling a jump-Shotgun, I'll start the round with j.LK j.HP and go into Parasoul's close-range game, otherwise TJ wins the toss-up and I have to play at long-range. On the other hand, he might call out my dash-j.LK and respond with j.Throw, in which case I get combo'd into Argus and wake up into Peacock's pressure game. After a while, we exhaust all our novel round openings, and go for the safe stuff: s.LP~LP xx MP Shot for me, There are a lot of ways the round can start, but basically, I'll try and guess how TJ is planning to get away from Parasoul's generally superior starting options, and the real game starts at either neutral or advantage to one of us.

    Parasoul on Pressure

    If I win the toss or land a hit in neutral, I get to play my game. Parasoul has long combos, and piles of reset opportunities against Peacock. I can basically unload my entire bag of tricks, here, but Peacock has a few tools to get out of Parasoul's pressure. LP Bang is hit invulnerable, and MP Bang is throw invulnerable, but both are vulnerable for 2f on startup, so they're not a big issue as long as you respect them. TJ tends to hold up-back against me up close, which is kind of a pain, but it leaves him vulnerable to getting kicked in the shins pretty often. I had to get used to pulling out yomi-j.Throws here and there since he likes to chicken block. Against anyone else, I'd be using chicken-block-proof Diamond Drop assist setups, but I always bring in Cerecopter to deal with Peacock players. At every opportunity, if Cerebella is available and Peacock is blocking you, you should be calling Cerecopter. Some Peacock players play extremely passively here, so it's pretty frustrating to get one to stop moving for long enough to employ mixups.

    As for Peacock's reversal options, she has two good ones. The first is desperation Argus, which gives Peacock a full-screen neutral game, but you should know how to deal with THAT by now: don't pull stupid tricks on a Peacock whom you know is mashing out supers. As for TJ, he has a second reversal, which is his most dangerous: Lenny Sequeled into Ultimate Showstopper, so I know to keep my strings safe and clean.

    Peacock on Pressure

    When Peacock gets going, you're in for a world of frustration! TJ's most common tactic on my wake up is LK George, MK George, Teleport for silly crossups and fake crossups, and these need to be guessed at as far as I'm aware. He also has the incredibly dangerous option of Lenny > Showstopper here as well, so I always have to be cautious of being in Cerebella's grab range. Peacock has a weird attack pattern of running away, dropping Georges, and teleporting back in, so she's pretty hard to get out of.

    The important thing when being pressured up close by Peacock is to be patient. Peacock is great at keeping the hits coming, but her mix-up isn't too difficult to deal with. Outside of silly teleport stuff, her mix-up is pretty standard, and she'll eventually come up to you and go for j.LP (chainsaw), j.LP airdash j.LP for a double-overhead, grounded lows, or a throw, sometimes behind an assist if you're playing a Peacock who comes in behind Cerecopters or Hornets. Avoid push-blocking, since the space isn't going to help you, and look for an opportunity to either poke/grab out of pressure, block and call an assist, or SAFELY use Napalm Pillar cancelled into Motor Brigade (occasionally sequel'd into Showstopper for the swag).

    Neutral: Full-screen

    Sooner or later, any decent Peacock player will get into their ideal range, bombarding you with garbage from full screen. This is the part that most people have trouble with: Peacock sitting at full-screen, constantly throwing out Georges, Screwball Cannon (s.HP), HP Bang, and keeping you out with HK Bomber. The first and foremost thing is to be patient! Peacock wins at this range by punishing recklessness: Skullgirls is a game about running forward and hitting buttons, and Peacock says you can't do that, anymore, leading to unsafe jumping around, which is punished by Argus Agony.

    Anyway, as Parasoul, remember that you're also a zoner, and have many options to deal with Peacock's zoning. All of Peacock's direct projectiles are stopped clean by Egret Dive (MK Egret), which gives you a moment to breathe, and to perhaps fire off a HP Shot. On a good day, you can fire many HP Shots in a row, using the stun of the Tears detonating each other to either fire more or move forward, but, a good player won't be stuck in this kind of Tear lockdown for very long. Egret Charge goes through projectiles, which forces Peacock to stop shooting things at you for a moment and either poke the bike or jump over it, which gives you a moment to move forward. Just remember not to do anything unsafe, like dashing forward or jumping for no reason, because every Peacock is constantly holding onto a Shadow of Doom at all times, and that will get you Shadow of Doom > Air George > Cannonball > Bang! Bang! Bang! > Argus Agony'd, occasionally canceled into Diamonds are Forever when TJ is feeling spendy. The goal here is to methodically use Parasoul's zoning tools (and in my case, Double's giant butt) to distract Peacock for long enough to take a few steps forward into Mid-screen.

    Here's one fun tidbit that comes up often in my games: flying Double Butt wars. Remember in the case of Double-on-Double assist action, that the later-called Hornet will win. Peacock has to rely on Hornet Bomber as keep-away when you get around her other stuff, so I always keep my own Hornet ready to counter. Opposing Hornet Bombers antagonize Peacock players greatly, and oftentimes they'll try to hit the assist with whatever they have available. If they use HP Bang! or Argus Agony, Parasoul gets in for free with Silent Scope, and can often dash up all the way to Peacock's crumple even from full-screen. If a Peacock player ever fires off an Argus in neutral, just block the laser and trade Silent Scope with the shots, you win the trade by far!


    Anyway, it's getting pretty late for me, so I'd better hit the hay. If there's any interest at all from anyone, I can finish this thing, or add in the write-up for what to do when my Parasoul dies and I have to play Bella vs. Peacock. Fire away questions or criticisms, I'm game.
    PSN: Emuchu | Games I play:
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  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,686
    For anybody who doesn't know, fake teleport is free to grabs. Best way to deal with her teleport tactics in the corner is to throw her back in, you'll get either the teleport punish or the throw animation will extend past the bomb going off.

    Also, the Shield Egret may give you some time to set up tears, a napalm shot or even a Sniper punish(?) once it's out, so don't sleep on it; all you really have to worry about is Shadow, as that move blocks just about everything, including Argus Agony. Tears far into Peacock's zone force her to pause her zoning game more frequently.

    @Emuchu
    You can Napalm Pillar out of Peacock's throw -> George -> George -> Teleport tactic. Another option is to just listen to what Peacock says; it gives away the side she appears on. Worst case scenario is a fake H teleport ("Badaboom!") to bait out a Napalm Pillar.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭
    Im thinking about making a peacock specific thread detailing her moves, strategies, and most importantly patterns... Like one pattern that ive been getting some serious mileage off of in neutral is airdash back j.hk, land, immeditae item drop charge... Shit is simple of course, but ive found it, atleast in my own play to be superior to just about all other forms or airdashback to get distance to call an itemdrop.


    Anywho, a thread like that could be very beneficial to the peacock community, as well as people looking to play against her as it could give them the knowledge of what to look for... Besides like, GARBAGE ARRGH... What do i do.

    But it will only be beneficial if at least 2 or 3 other people contribute as well cause we need different viewpoints and different experiences to truly expand our knowledge.


    -dime
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,686
    snip

    I'll support that. Just create the thread when you're ready.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • EmuchuEmuchu Teach me something Joined: Posts: 160
    For anybody who doesn't know, fake teleport is free to grabs. Best way to deal with her teleport tactics in the corner is to throw her back in, you'll get either the teleport punish or the throw animation will extend past the bomb going off.

    Also, the Shield Egret may give you some time to set up tears, a napalm shot or even a Sniper punish(?) once it's out, so don't sleep on it; all you really have to worry about is Shadow, as that move blocks just about everything, including Argus Agony. Tears far into Peacock's zone force her to pause her zoning game more frequently.

    @Emuchu
    You can Napalm Pillar out of Peacock's throw -> George -> George -> Teleport tactic. Another option is to just listen to what Peacock says; it gives away the side she appears on. Worst case scenario is a fake H teleport ("Badaboom!") to bait out a Napalm Pillar.

    Thanks for that bit about the Pillar, I keep forgetting about that. I'll just add that it can be baited once they catch on to it, so be careful throwing wakeup Pillars around.

    Another note is that Egret Dive (bodyguard) has a limited amount of projectile armor. Argus Agony will eat through it very quickly in either of its phases, so it's not a viable answer to Argus, although if your poor Soldier is eating an Argus for you, you should have the time for an emergency Sniper call.
    PSN: Emuchu | Games I play:
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  • Age_of_FoolsAge_of_Fools Joined: Posts: 705
    Parasoul vs Peacock is such a fun matchup. Basically everything's been covered, but one thing to remember is j.HK since it alters your trajectory you can use it to avoid ground bombs or to add distance to your jump-ins when otherwise you'd be out of range.

    In general against zoning I think there's 3 priorities.

    -First is movement
    Dashing forward is safe because you can block, so you're safer than someone who is retreating with back dashes.

    Dash-jumping has got to be my favorite technique in this game for improving movement, just watch out for accidental supers if you use a button dash.

    Know the timing for all of your movements, and practice moving quickly and efficiently when it's safe to do so.

    Learn the zoning patterns so that you know when you can move safely. It's mostly trial and error, but it's usually a safe bet that after you block some stuff you'll have time to move a little.

    -Second is blocking
    Making them block>Dodging>Blocking>Getting hit

    If you can't dodge, always be blocking. There will be mistakes obviously, so get into the habit of blocking just in case rather than as a reaction.

    -Third is attacking

    You already need to know how to attack in other matchups, but against zoners you need to focus on what options you have that they have more difficulty dealing with from full screen or mid-range. Example: Filia's slide gives my Parasoul trouble when I'm trying to keep her out. If you're lacking options in a matchup, adjust your assists to give you better options.



    That playlist will have a bunch more of the parasoul vs peacock matchup soon.
    Beginner's Guide to Cerebella
    Cerebella mixup video
    XBL: Age of Fools [Cerebella/Double/Parasoul/Painwheel]
    "i mean look the length of your post…" -Dime X
  • xXGuymelefXxxXGuymelefXx Joined: Posts: 22
    Parasoul vs Peacock is such a fun matchup.

    You have the luxury of having Double as an assist. Without her its a nightmare :(
  • Age_of_FoolsAge_of_Fools Joined: Posts: 705
    You have the luxury of having Double as an assist. Without her its a nightmare :(

    If you're solo against a peacock with a nasty assist, it's just going to be that much more difficult. If you have a team, figure out what assists help the most. Parasoul is an awesome assist character anyway, so if your other characters can't help Parasoul do the job on point, chuck her in the back with egret charge or a tear shot assist.
    Beginner's Guide to Cerebella
    Cerebella mixup video
    XBL: Age of Fools [Cerebella/Double/Parasoul/Painwheel]
    "i mean look the length of your post…" -Dime X
  • EmuchuEmuchu Teach me something Joined: Posts: 160
    If you're solo against a peacock with a nasty assist, it's just going to be that much more difficult. If you have a team, figure out what assists help the most. Parasoul is an awesome assist character anyway, so if your other characters can't help Parasoul do the job on point, chuck her in the back with egret charge or a tear shot assist.
    Yeah, there are some people, like Zidiane on the 'Bella forums, who are insane enough to rock solo Bella against Peacock zoning teams (he wrote a long and informative guide on the subject, too). There are ways to get in, it's just a matter of patience. As for assists to consider when fighting against Peacock, I find the best ones to be either anti-zoning assists like Parasoul's Napalm Shot and Egret Charge, Double's Hornet Bomber, and Ms. Fortune's Zoom! (Headless d+f.HP), or multi-hit trapping assists like Cerebella's Cerecopter or Painwheel's Cruel Lily (c.MK) that'll help you land the actual hit once you catch up to them, since Peacocks love being passive and popping desperation Blockbusters at that point. And of course, Parasoul's Napalm Pillar or Filia's Updo for when Peacock starts throwing around that mixup. You just have to recognize your weak link in the match up and support it.
    PSN: Emuchu | Games I play:
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  • Age_of_FoolsAge_of_Fools Joined: Posts: 705
    I actually had a really nice set playing solo Bella against that Peacock/Filia team but didn't record it. There are definitely ways to do it, you just have more work to get in. On the up side, you don't have to get as many hits with the solo once they're in.
    Beginner's Guide to Cerebella
    Cerebella mixup video
    XBL: Age of Fools [Cerebella/Double/Parasoul/Painwheel]
    "i mean look the length of your post…" -Dime X
  • EmuchuEmuchu Teach me something Joined: Posts: 160
    So I've been playing CiscoKid_4 pretty often, these days. For you guys who haven't met him, he(?) plays a Red / Black Peacock / Double combination mostly consisting of keep-away tactics into teleport mix-up and relatively short combos. Guy wrecked my bits for the longest time while I was playing Parasoul / Cerebella / Double, but these days we usually play fairly even (slightly tipped to his side), except when we're lagging, which nets him a massive advantage.

    Anyway, in no particular order, here's some stuff I learned / changed in order to fight the Peacock match-up more effectively:
    • Peacock players like to jump. A lot. One I learned to effectively maneuver into mid-close range and corner Peacock, I realized how much of a pain in the butt it is trying to land hits on her if Cisco is alternating between chicken-push-blocking and j.HP (shotgun) / j.Throw behind Hornet Assist. I started to combat this by throwing out short strings into Cerecopter to try and fit some mix-ups and meaty-punish Double calls and jumping, but later I started using Parasoul's j.LP while calling Diamond Drop to catch jumping, and leave me room to block Double's butt on block.
    • HK Bomber assist is not the way to combat a Peacock/Double combo. I tried using it to punish Double calls with my own, but what usually happens is that Cisco will, on reaction to my Double call, do Shadow xx Argus Agony to punish my Double. With a well-timed Shadow, I lose the gap between Argus's beam and shots that I usually use to punish Argus with Silent Scope, so HK Bomber was out. In fact, I had better success in general after dropping Double, which is honestly the weak link my team.
    • Peacock is very, very weak to tight resets, since she has no reversal options besides Argus. If you have them, use them!!!
    • If Peacock isn't currently holding a Shadow, and you force her to Argus for some reason, make absolutely sure to punish after the laser, if you have a character that can. Parasoul can Silent Scope from full-screen and dash up on Peacock's crumple. Cerebella, at close range, can Battle Butt (Run~HK), Showstopper, or Dynamo, but at far range, all she can do is Diamond Deflector, which may or may not hit Peacock, since she crouches so low during Argus, but 'Bella is projectile-invulnerable through recovery after a successful Deflect, so it's worth trying.
    • Teleport wake-up mix-ups are a crap-shoot to block, so I tend to use Napalm Pillar xx Motor Brigade on wake-up when I see one coming, or Diamond Dynamo Sequel into Motor Brigade if I really have to.
    • Double is pretty terrible on point. Peacock's assists don't really offer her anything, so you can expect some combo of keep-away LP Shots, j.HP into s.Throw, and the infamous HK Bomber into Catellites. Catellites drains Tension quickly, though, and prorates the hell out of Double's combo damage, so don't worry too much if she lands something during Catellite mix-up. If anything, I'm more than happy to have Double draining out the team's Tension gauge. If the opportunity presents itself, Outtake Peacock into Double, and punish their attempt to switch back.
    • Got an aggressive Peacock player? Diamond Drop assist is absolutely dirty against aggro Peacock. Peacock lacks multi-hitting attacks, so it's really easy to Stunt-Double into Diamond Drop to get the advantage, especially when Diamond Drop tosses Peacock into the corner.
    • Have a passive Peacock player? j.Throw will become your best friend. I have to alternate between j.Throw and a frame-trap j.LP to keep them honest.
    • Stuck with a laggy Peacock player? You lose. There's nothing you can do. Every errant spike of lag is a dropped combo and a get-out-of-jail-free card for Peacock. This match-up is only winnable because Peacock is so garbage at escaping pressure, so letting her out all the time places Peacock at a massive advantage.
    • Cerebella CAN fight this match-up! Judicious use of Run~Stop/Battle Butt/Showstopper can get around HK Bomber abuse and klonk an unsuspecting Peacock in the face. Curiously enough, Deflector seems really weak in this matchup. CiscoKid is comfortable enough with his projectile pressure that he leaves Deflectable gaps on purpose, and tele-bombs to punish. Even after a successful Deflector, there's so much stuff on-screen that I don't get to punish with HK Run~Battle Butt like I would for other characters. Bella's Titan Knuckle (f.HP) is actually pretty dangerous, here, as its maximum range is, conveniently, the same range where HK Bomber will whiff over Bella's head standing! Zidiane has a pretty in-depth write-up of this match-up in the Bella forums.
    • And most importantly... stop jumping!!! Jump, Double-jump, and Super-Double-Jump are the best ways to get around projectile walls, and more importantly, over HK Bomber, but this always give Peacock a free teleport out of the corner. Stay near the ground and fish for the teleport, and you get a free combo into reset opportunities. Just watch out for HK Bomber/Teleport! I usually stand a bit away from Peacock, at the range where HK Bomber will whiff over my head and I can still punish.
    PSN: Emuchu | Games I play:
    Skullgirls | Blazblue CSII | Street Fighter IV AE v.2012
    SoulCalibur 5 | Tekken 6 | Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
    I challenge you to freakin' everything
  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭
    ... I played the peacock yesterday that i was having so much trouble with beating with painwheel, only this time i completely massacred the poor guy... Te only difference was that i changed my wireless to wired and we got our best connection ever... I wasnt dropping nearly as many combos and was consistently able to hover and punish teleports while staying out of the way of filia assist as well as the biggest thing:

    I was able to reactively armor through filia assist, saw it on video a while back but couldnt do it because of lag...when i started to do it on our good connection the match turned almost completely in my favor, and once my painwheel hits a character entire teams can die.


    I was using solo painwheel versus peacock (hp) filia (hp updo) val (fireball) he mixed it up with peacock filia and filia peacock and i mixed it up with solo pw and pw/double (hk bomber) i won like 23-9


    Point being lag makes peacock a real asshole and if you have a blowthrough move she becomes much easier to handle.


    Nice write up as always emuchu
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,686
    I didn't read the entire thing, but Peacock has L Bang, which actually works vs opponents pressuring directly in front of her. So, remember that when you're on her, as it doesn't have a super flash that gives it away. Constantly attacking from directly over her head pretty much negates it, so be sure to throw iad attacks and a good amount of grabs in there, especially grabs; even if you can't get an immediate follow-up, she goes closer to the corner, which is very good; it's not always about starting a combo. Mixing up between hits and grabs forces Peacock to guess between L Bang (hit invul) and M Bang (grab invul) as well, which just makes things harder for her.

    For Bella, any Deflector hit needs to convert into dash -> Titan Knuckle at least. That gives you the opportunity to command run directly into her face and pressure. And if you have her in the corner, do not Diamond Drop. Just forget you have it and use normal throws/Ultimate Showstopper instead. With US, you at least get the Merry-Go-Rilla/low short mix-up when they tech forward (they will always tech forward). Diamond Dynamo gives you nothing, not even a cancel into super. Oh, and random AA without shadow from about 3/4 screen distance is a Deflector -> dash Titan Knuckle -> command run for Bella. If you have 3 meter , you can link Heavy LnL and Deflector into Diamond, so I would suggest playing with the strategy of building meter while advancing so you get Diamond to slow down her range game.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • EmuchuEmuchu Teach me something Joined: Posts: 160
    I didn't read the entire thing, but Peacock has L Bang, which actually works vs opponents pressuring directly in front of her. So, remember that when you're on her, as it doesn't have a super flash that gives it away. Constantly attacking from directly over her head pretty much negates it, so be sure to throw iad attacks and a good amount of grabs in there, especially grabs; even if you can't get an immediate follow-up, she goes closer to the corner, which is very good; it's not always about starting a combo. Mixing up between hits and grabs forces Peacock to guess between L Bang (hit invul) and M Bang (grab invul) as well, which just makes things harder for her.

    For Bella, any Deflector hit needs to convert into dash -> Titan Knuckle at least. That gives you the opportunity to command run directly into her face and pressure. And if you have her in the corner, do not Diamond Drop. Just forget you have it and use normal throws/Ultimate Showstopper instead. With US, you at least get the Merry-Go-Rilla/low short mix-up when they tech forward (they will always tech forward). Diamond Dynamo gives you nothing, not even a cancel into super. Oh, and random AA without shadow from about 3/4 screen distance is a Deflector -> dash Titan Knuckle -> command run for Bella. If you have 3 meter , you can link Heavy LnL and Deflector into Diamond, so I would suggest playing with the strategy of building meter while advancing so you get Diamond to slow down her range game.

    LP Bang! is hit-invulnerable starting frame 3, I believe, which means she's still vulnerable to tight resets and frame-traps. As long as you respect the move and avoid loose pressure, it's not much of an issue. For the Bella's out there, MP BANG! is throw-invulnerable starting frame 3, so keep that in mind, as well. I watched some CiscoKid_4 vs. duckator matches the other day, at CiscoKid's advice. He says that Peacock has a massive weak point between her s.HP gun and the top of her hat: the range right between Air George and Screwball Cannon (s.HP), so Filia and Fortune can IAD all day against Peacock so long as they watch out for Bomber.

    And like view619 said, Diamond Drop xx Diamond Dynamo whiffs on Peacock outside of the corner. She's the only character this happens on (besides Ms. Fortune's head getting in the way), and can cost the match if you forget about it. Although, I'll sometimes end a combo with Cerecopter and dash back into a Diamond Drop. It's a good thing to keep up my sleeves.

    I am going to start toying around with Diamond Deflector into dash-Knuckle, though, it sounds like fun.
    PSN: Emuchu | Games I play:
    Skullgirls | Blazblue CSII | Street Fighter IV AE v.2012
    SoulCalibur 5 | Tekken 6 | Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
    I challenge you to freakin' everything
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,686
    Funny enough, Peacock low short covers that vulnerable area directly over her hat, so there is that. Also, iad roundhouse is a good way of covering that same area for a bit, as well as L Shadow, which is probably the safest bet. The short works pretty well if you can stick it out early; it leads into combo if you're charging the L Shadow, or a shorter chain into Argus if you're not.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭
    She can also cover that area with updo or pillar as well as item drop and GDP kills filias air dash crap and she can teleport against any move aggressively challenging that area... She has plenty if options for defending that space and in the case of pillar and updo she can aggressively defend that area while also converting to full damage...


    Air throw is also a decent way to defend that space as is/are instant air dash jmp and iAd jhp
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
  • palipali PSN:Heavyjugz Joined: Posts: 976
    Peacock Sux, it's the assist thats giving you problems not peacock.
  • The MartianThe Martian Web-headed scrub. Joined: Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How can my Painwheel defend against Peacock?
    "For the curse of life, is the curse of want.
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  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭
    How can my Painwheel defend against Peacock?


    Are you talking about defending against peacock or trying to go offensive against her?

    Also what assists does she have from her partner?

    Assisted painwheel versus assisted peacock seems to be much in peacocks favor though there are some things that you can try.


    Always remember though that you only really need 1 chance to kill her outright... Easier said than done, but 1 mistake is all it takes.

    In the future i think the assisted peacock versus assisted painwheel matchup will be seen as firmly in peacocks favor.
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
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