Fierce Economy: The Peacock neutral game and strategy thread.

DimeDime Wasting timeJoined: Posts: 11,122
OVERVIEW

first things first, my peacock is ass at this time (though last i played her it had gotten much better) i still have a lot of work to do, i write this as it took me a solid month to realize these things about the character and id like to save some people the trouble as well as get whoever/everyone to contribute patterns… peacock is a character that imho is almost completely pattern based… it could be said of all characters but peacock takes it to another level. also i base much of ths on things ive seen in ddsouls vids and have myself been recreating plus things i have stolen off of other peacock players.

no pattern is uncounterable though which is where the skill lies… picking the right pattern, using correct reactions, varying your playstyle etc etc

also in this thread i will go over keepaway, runaway and zoning... how peacock excells at all of them and how she must use all of them to accomplish the end result of staying away from her opponents characters for long periods of time.


the title is in reference that peacock sometimes has to play while holding down the hp button, which in the old school is known as the fierce button. that button is EXTREMELY important to peacock and holding it makes and breaks many of her strategies.

that having been said i was originally planning on going through the ramifications of that and the ins and outs… but decided not to, instead ill just list off a few brief obvious things:

when holding an item drop with hp peacock loses access to ALOT of great moves namely...

j.hp
st.hp
bangx3
teleport behind opponent
instant tracking level 1 item drop (cause shes charging it)

and it also has the drawback of forcing the peacock player to hold the button while calling assists, performing throws and sometimes combos, 2 p airdashes etc etc.

the primary reason to list all of this is to let the beginning peacock realize just how much they lose when charging an item drop… peacocks far presence is generally greatly diminished with the loss of st.hp and lvl 1 item drop.

THIS MEANS that its much harder to play a garbage based keepaway game while holding an item drop… if peacock gets hit while holding item drop she loses it. and some character actually can take peacock on fairly well from fullscreen as long as peacock isnt using the overload strat aka the keepaway strat (which i will go into later, its very simple)

charging an item drop is best done from what ive seen, TO GO ON OFFENSE. it isnt really to be used for defense. for offense though lets look at what a lvl 2-3 item drop gives you:

a much harder to dodge projectile
an "assist" that locks down and hits fullscreen… while also being able to call other assists.
(im not sure if this one works) an easy to use alpha counter by letting go of item drop while in blockstun
an overhead that is independent of peacocks own recovery thusly allowing peacock to go for near unblockables with item drop and a low assist or peacocks own lows.
the ability to left/right the "offensive" opponent by double jumping over them and releasing the item drop.

basically it has alot of good offensive properties yet takes away alot of good defensive properties, so its only natural to try and use charged item drop offensively… ie while moving forward and non charged item drops while moving backward or holding her ground.

_________________________________________________________________________________

PEACOCKS SPECIALS (wip)

a section for analysis of peacocks specials and what different functions that they can serve… as an example a new one that a friend told me about was throwing out a lk george, seeing the opponent jump over it, then teleporting toward the opponent that is trying to advance.

basically the lk george will protect peacocks port even if it has passed up the opponent, assuming of course that it is close enough.

PEACOCKS MOST IMPORTANT MOVES (defense)

1. lvl1 item drop... (mostly to hit other zoners that are trying to zone) but also good for general anti air against slow moving forward movements… like regular jumps and stuff.

2. st.hp… her most important keepaway move BY FAR imho… item drop might get all the publicity but this baby is what does all the work. the pluses of this move and what makes it absolutely disgusting is that peacock can screen check with it anytime she wants (just throw it out) and then cancel it it into any george or teleport or non cancel upon seeing the opponents movement… like, see opponent jump over it towards her… no problem just teleport out of there, and if you are really fast and have a pillar or updo style assist you can call the assist then teleport thusly making your defense turn into a crossup offense that you dont even have to bother to setup since the opponents come to you.
also the overload strategy isnt really possible without st.hp

3.Georges day out… covers the ground against dashes, sets up offensive and defensive teleports, controls alot of space for a very long time… peacock just seems to do alot better when gdo is constantly kept in play… so dont sleep on it, use it as much as possible, also its call out has AA properties against IAD and recovers really quickly like item drop hold.

4.George at the airshow… really shitty when first learning how to use peacock…. after that a god send as it becomes really powerful once peacock is good at frustrating the opponent and getting to certain ranges… funnily enough people LOVE to jump forward after this move hits them in the air or puts them into blockstun… reasoning i guess is because the opponent is thinking "he wont throw 2 airshows in a row" or something such as that… anywas peacock can use this to her advantage by following up successful airshows with teleports.

5. HK teleport… the bread and butter of defensive peacock play… using this move well means that peacock literally never loses running room… this alone makes this move SUPER CHEAP.

now there is a "right" way to use teleports and a wrong way.

the right way is to anticipate an opponents jump forward and hk teleport towards them as that will actually move peacock away from them. she can also do this for grounded moves that move forward… basically you just want to read or react to moves that move forward and use hk port to move in back of them.

the wrong way is to teleport to a character that is js standing there waiting for a port. the OTHER WRONG WAY is something that i still see alot and its to wait till peacock is in the corner and then try and teleport out… which is bad for 2 reasons… 1. its super predictable. 2 the opponent can actually cover teleports when peacock is cornered easier by standing at a certain range and countering teleports on reaction or upon not seeing one yet seeing the assist make contact, go on the offense… so basically a no risk way to be defensive and offensive at the same time… you dont want this so make sure you port BEFORE you are cornered… even if that means that you have to do 3 times as many ports at midscreen… just do it, it works till the opponent starts to bait them and once they start to bait them is when peacock can go all out with:

THE OVERLOAD STRAT (ie noobs pressing alot of buttons, the pattern all peacocks like to use, etc etc)

its simply any version of this pattern:

st.hp xx qcf +lk>st.hp xx qcf +mk,st.hp xx qcf+ hk,st.hp xx qcb +hp

you can add and subtract empty st.hp and whatnot as you see fit, the principle job of this is to put as much shit on the screen as possible while also trying to cover obvious jumpin and ground angles… but this is primarily designed to beat other characters trying to keepaway, and other characters that are baiting teleport, and other characters that are simply playing "patient" trying to think their way in.

note that peacock CAN BE BEATEN BY KEEPAWAY if you dont know how to deal with it:


"fireball advantage" is something that has been in fighting games forever, however in skullgirls its almost taken to a new level. if you have fireball advantage your fireball game basically CAN NOT BE BEATEN by another characters fireball game… this seems to work with painwheel, parasoul and of course peacock.


painwheel cause she can pound out like 5 spikes that is more than peacock can usually handle in one go, parasoul can just do shitloads of hp shots.


peacock is the only one of these characters that can use her own fireball to grab the fireball advantage back and keep it.

item drop 1 always gives fireball advantage afaik except for in the situations that the other peacock has a gdo in play… which makes things dynamic.


other than that, usually a simple lvl1 drop followed by a st.hp xx garbage or bangx3 is waaaay more than enough to get the other character to lose the advantage and be forced to come to peacock.


_______________________________________________________________________________


PATTERNS:

this is probably the meat of the thread, or atleast as important as whatever else i said was just as important. this is what peacocks uses to go offensive or defensive and to do it well.


some might wonder why i put patterns in here… they might think "simply using patterns isnt going to make any player good, its knowing when to use the patterns that makes a player good" to which i would certainly agree, however i would argue that not all or even most patterns are obviosu at least at first and there are SOME patterns that are so strong that using them WILL IN GENERAL make your play stronger even if the patterns are somewhat misplaced…. the 2 patterns im listing next are just those sort of patterns, one i modified from ddsoul vids and have been VERY happy with it, the other is just common sense but… for common sense it works so well i just figured it has to be here.


1. jump back airdash, j.hk, land call charged item drop (then react to the opponent, if they are far take the opportunity to set out a gdo as well f they are close use the double jump crossup i mentioned earlier.

just doing the airdash to the j.hk is amazingly good though… ive found it better than:

just jumping with j.hk (doesnt get far enough away, is risky to try and transfer to a defensive strategy with such little backward space gained)
jumping with j.hp naked or canceling it into a j.hk (the first one is like the naked j.hk… though i do use this alot cause of the damage of the j.hp. the second one canceling the jhp into jhk, i dont like eiither cause it gains TO MUCH SPACE ON AVERAGE and leads to peacock cornering herself to easily or having to overrely on teleports to get her out.

so yeah, just jump and airdas back then cancel into j.hk… shit is golden and protects peacock from the air and skies… why not just jump with hk and airdash back cancel it into another jhk or simlpy let it ride? cause the jhk doesnt have THAT much priority and can easily be beaten by other light attacks or earlier timed attacks… if you are just looking to create space the pattern i listed is imho the best way to do that….loses bad to projectiles though so watch out for that.

2.HK Teleport crossup

(WHEN THEY THINK THEY ARE GOING ON THE OFFENSIVE) basically you just want to anticipate them jumping towards you and hit them with a gtfo assist while teleporting and thusly mixing up there blocking, the reason being that they may try to empty jump to bait the assist… this pattern beats empty jump but can still be considered a 50/50 once the opponent learns to antcipate it and block correctly


VERY simple but the way i do it is i make sure that i ALWAYS do it if im calling my invulnerable assist… its an easy transition from defense to offense and the opponent has to start to anticipating it to block it or make it wiff… also completely in peacocks favor imho.

also why NOT teleport everytime? no good reason to get your assist blocked imho. and yes this is one of the many things that makes peacock an absolutely disgusting character to play against. she kills you from fullscreen, she kills you at midscreen, she kills you upclose. she turns your offense or defense into her defense or offense from ANYWHERE ON THE SCREEN… no other character can do that to the extent tht she can nor as quickly a she can do it. and also teleport is her PRIMARY offensive mixup, though she does have a high low throw game it isnt nearly what it is with other characters… learn to abuse her teleport on both defense and offense.
Gettin' my derp on.
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Comments

  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    KEEPAWAY

    is a tactic both dynamically and spacially concerned with KNOCKING THE OPPONENT AWAY FROM YOU.

    examples of good keepaway are few and far between cause at its best it is broken. however in the oldschool games some practitioners of this dying art are:

    ST. akuma
    World Warrior guile
    World warrior dhalsim


    akuma used his air fireball for absolute keepaway.


    guile in world warrior used his sonic boom, which in world warrior was near uncounterable as hurricane kicks didnt go over it, and honda didnt have buttslam yet… there were many other reasons… but thats not important right now.

    dhalsim had yoga fire… almost as broken in WW as boom was, however what made sim in WW really stupid was his st.mk… its angle/speed was completely dumb and sim never got it back (nerfed in every sf iteration from that point on it was angled higher and made much shorter)

    the closest sim has gotten back to that move is actually in sf4 though the move remains nerfed angle range and speedwise (especially speedwise) the best way to describe sims ww st.mk is take his sf4 st.hk, angle it slightly higher with slightly less range, and make it a shit ton faster.

    it may not sound like much, but remember that the only nerf to akumas fireballs from like st to hdr was the startup time (which ended up not being enough of a nerf but meh)



    RUNAWAY

    "newschool keepaway"

    instead of knocking the attacker backwards constantly, like keepaway, runaway is a tactic where the defensive player seeks to put distance themselves and the opponent via movement...


    WHY the distinction between runaway and keepaway?

    generally speaking with the notable exception of mvc2 cable, runaway doesnt do much damage cause the person running away cant actually attack… in other words it is most effective for killing time off the clock or frustrating the opponent into making stupid mistakes or allowing a bit of keepaway to go on once range has been established.

    cable kills this general rule cause he can jump backwards and do an air viper beam… this allows him to simultaneously runaway AND do damage to his opponents… this was probably seen by ike and many other people as being to much… so peacocks special move ability has been restricted to the ground… because of the stupidity we already know we would have if she were more cable based than she already is.

    and again peacock cant air runaway and do damage to the other half of the screen simultaneously besides charge an item drop… which isnt spammable and has cooldown once released.

    these are checks and balances to her power when COMPARED TO CABLE…

    there are other things that cable has that she doesnt (viper beam pushes ALL the way back to fullscreen on block or hit….) but she also has things that cable never had:

    a safe way to cover her head without an assist
    a teleport
    an airdash (did cable have an airdash? cant remember )


    ZONING

    using both the runaway and keepaway strategies to your characters advantage in order to keep the opponent at the right spacing for your character.

    (as opposed to just dashing in or jumping in at every chance and opportunity)


    EVERY CHARACTER in every fighting game is a zoner, more or less. some want to get inside some dont but all have to move and use attacks in order to get to and stay in those optimal ranges.



    what does this have to do with peacock?


    knowing how peacock uses her defensive abilities allows linear thinking of strats to make them more powerful, as well as outside the box strats to allow more creativity:


    linear = runaway is what the character is designed to do more often than not.

    finding strategies and patterns to support her runaway ability, will make her obviously stronger.


    creative = offensive mixup based play (or anything that isnt concerned with runaway and setting up a decent fortress to throw garbage from)

    so if we want to be creative with her we also have many avenues… actually more avenues than if we just want to play defense. the problem is that of curse its hard to find good offensive strategies that 1. work and 2. work over the course of many matches against many players.


    one highly creative theoryfighter concept ive had with her is to use the overhead prpoerties of item drop combined with the low she naturally has into a near unblockable mixup… especialy off a reset. something like standard bnb to restand, release item drop, do cr.mk.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    reserved
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  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,796
    @ work so can't add much atm.

    Boxcar George - owns projectile wars. Once this is out, the opponent can not shoot at all since it ignores most projectiles. The only ways to remove it are with a GDO or another Boxcar, shield soldier or Diamond Reflector afaik. H Cannon xx Boxcar is almost guaranteed projectile advantage.

    Shadow Of Impending Doom - while it's generally a bad idea to hold the homing version for extended periods from full screen, the other two were actually made for zoning. Use L vs aggressive characters/play for cover and M to keep projectile wars in your favour.

    Lenny - a great way to cover yourself. If the opponent manages to get around your garbage and you're feeling threatened, or you just made a bad move (H Bang, for example), cancel into Lenny. His hit-box also blocks a lot of counter strategies, like Bella Diamond, Fortune's head (fu Noms) and Valentine Scalpels. Learn to make it work.

    IAD - j. hk puts Avery directly overhead and gives you time to make one action before he lands. Use it during neutral to cover your head.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    I like this, so basically st.hp xx boxcar st.hp xx homing item drop cant be outfireballed by anyone... Good to know. Also had another thought but wont be able to test for a few days...

    That lp drop you mentioned is good and ive completely forgotten about it... It can hit things via anticipation and early timing that ho drop would have missed, so it is probably something to work on using more... But my thought was... With charging hp item drop. Drastically killing peacocks ranged offense... Might we want to charge lp drops instead for the defense benefit while not sacrificing long range potential or perhaps even charging mp verison for ranged offense while still having st.hp jhp and bang?


    -dime
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,796
    I generally look at the Shadows in relation to how they affect her normals. When zoning, you have to have H, so focus on the other two shadows. During her pressure, charging H Shadow is fine because H isn't something she REALLY needs up close; you just lose her crouching H, which is fine because you still have the slide xx GDO to keep it safe on block.

    L Shadow tends to work really well against aggressive characters like Filia and Valentine because it not only covers the area in front of her, but leaves her M pokes available to play at mid. With this, you can poke out air dash or dash attempts and drop the item into a possible combo opportunity. If you guess wrong on the poke, you can still drop the item and remain relatively safe. M Shadow is more for keeping the fireball game in your favour vs Parasoul and Peacock. In zoning, I try to charge H Shadow when I'm looking for an air grab into Argus Agony (or combo starter!), or trying to dash under super jumps and get a cross-up off with a level 2.

    Also, fake teleport backed by H Shadow is a decent way to buy some time/negate some of the opponent's advantage in the fireball game. Get out of the way of anything coming, drop the item (any lvl) then follow-up on the bomb with H Cannon xx George/H Bang to swing the momentum back in your favour.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    Snip.


    Discussions like this are why i create threads like this, so thanks for participating view619, even if you are the only other person in here thats a start.

    I was just going over some of what i wrote up there in the first post and i came up with something that that is extremely obvious as i use it in every other game and even with sg characters, but i havent been using it with peacock.


    I talked about airdashback jhk as being awesome, which it is... But i never really gave mention to the obvious strat of mixing it up with just jhk for less distance gained and jhp xx adb jhk for more distance gained...basically if we always move the same amount back we become super predictable as the opponent will know WHERE WE ARE GOING before we even get there.



    So yeah something so obvious that i use with other characters and i never even thought to use it with peacock. Also i havent really been seeing many peacocks using it as a spacing mixup either, though admittedly i do see them using different stuff, it seems random.


    -dime
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • Age_of_FoolsAge_of_Fools Joined: Posts: 706
    That stuff with LP and MP Shadows sounds really handy for zone vs zone.

    A variation on the jump air-backdash j.HK pattern is to use j.MK when jumping back then cancel it into a backdash then HK. j.MK is pretty amazing since it works with any vertical range and has pretty long horizontal range too. You kinda float down in the recovery, so the later you dash cancel, the shorter your retreat. This pattern has the advantage of buying time and space, but also has risks if the opponent is able to jump early enough to make j.MK whiff.

    As for boxcar winning against all fireballs, I think Parasoul's MP napalm shot trades with it and leaves a tear in that spot. Also, because it's faster, it's kind of easier to jump over if that makes sense. Also, I believe Peacock's HP xx boxcar would (just) lose to Parasoul's HP Napalm shot.
    Beginner's Guide to Cerebella
    Cerebella mixup video
    XBL: Age of Fools [Cerebella/Double/Parasoul/Painwheel]
    "i mean look the length of your post…" -Dime X
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,796
    Dont forget opening with ground back dash or GDO/iad j.mp to hold position with back dash being the safer option.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    Im at work for another 3-4 days... So i aint got much time till then but when i get back ill edit on the things you guys have said as well as add a few more things to round this out...


    Lol its cool to see peacocks on cupcakes not use some of the strats in tis thread last week, but use them this week... And no likes... Lol its coo, be back in a few days.


    -dime
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    Another pattern, just ganked it off ciscokid? He likes the airdashback jhk as well but when landing instead of going for gdo he does george at he airshow... Its a perfect spot to place airshow as his opponent duckator, evo champ... Was dashing and running into it all day.


    So thats another good pattern learned, and its pretty nice as it allows liberal use of airshow in a correct position... Ive had problems using airshow in my game as it tends to have a high wiff rate or characters going over it.

    Excited to try this stuff out when i get back home, good peacocks are so fun to watch, hopefully we can all raise our game to expert level and pull some of this niceness off.


    -dime
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    ive been taking a break from the cock lately to get the rust off my main team… that having been done its now time to get back onto peacock.

    some patterns ive been working on in my quest to find some nice autopilot shit to base her game off of:


    DEFENSIVE

    using regular dash back:

    to create space instead of just airdash back everytime… the reasoning because the dashback is faster and covers largely the same amount of screen, but its faster cause no wasted time jumping up or coming down. the primary downfall is that peacock is susceptible to grounded rush moves here and she doesnt have avery from jhk protecting her as she ends the dash… gdo could help out here… but probably the best overall bet is to charge an item drop here.

    dont use lvl 1 item drop for harrassment unless its for projectile wars (ie make sure that i charge item drop to lvl 2):
    lvl 2 item drop is MUCH harder to make wiff and therefor is much easier to use to put the opponent into blockstun… putting them into blockstun makes it easier to to call out a gdo or get that jumpin.

    to this extent ive been runnin reps of trying to release item drop the instant it gets to lvl 2 in t-mode to get the timing down to where its muscle memory… i think having lvl2 and 3 drops muscle memoried for charge times is very important… you want to release item drop lvl2 asap so that you can start charging another item drop lvl 2 SOONER. this means more chip and hit damage over time and more opportunities to punish the opponent with lvl 2 drops as AA's or get in moves… also more overall flexibility in drop times by purposefully delaying drop times a bit and less chance of getting hit since we are holding drop only just enough time to get to lvl 2.

    also ive been becoming more and more a fan of jhp xx ADB xx jhk


    this moves peacock REALLY far back and done intelligently is damn near a guarantee of a safe item drop charge or gdo call… but it isnt just that… it certainly sets up safer ID calls, but it also sets up things like charge item drop THEN ALSO CALL OUT GDO and go to work on putting out some garbage to make it to lvl2 drop safely

    anyways, thats the thinking… item drop 1 misses to much whereas item drop 2 is harder to make miss and does better damage to boot plus more hitstun… whereas charging to full lvl 3 doesnt seem to get as many benefits from 2 to 3 as going from 1 to 2 does… stil though it would probably be good to have item drop 3's quickest timing memorized as well for those random op drops...

    OFFENSIVE

    been messing around with:

    ground string> cr.hk xx gdo.

    cancel the sweep before it hits… this moves peacock forward and covers that forward movement with a gdo… basically with great timing and a non pushblocking opponent this string can be repeatedly indefinitely… it may well serve to learn to use this loop strategically if only to put pressure on the opponent and give them something else to think about.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    its my thread and i can quadruple post if i want to...

    ok so that st.hk xx gdo shit is REALLY good… not just for blockstrings, but for neutral offense and defense as well:

    it can be used with gdo as a "dash attack" against grounded opponents… REALLY FREAKING GOOD.
    and for defense it can be used into airshow fr folks trying to make airshow wiff or for people that are to far away from airshow… basically covers more space with airshow.

    this is next level peacock shit, i suggest any of the 2-3 other people that read this thread to throw sweep cancel xx gdo into your game… i dont think you will be disappointed with intelligent use of it.




    why not just forward dash or run into those moves?

    because forward dash doesnt actually hit anything and because sweep cancel moves forward faster and because sweep cancel can cancel other normals unlike a forward dash


    this is next lvl peacock shit yall.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • PartialartistPartialartist Joined: Posts: 176
    Good stuff. Pretty much everything I would add is already here. One thing is, while it's good to know exactly when item drop reaches a new level, you should be flexible about when you drop it, as it's great for flling gaps in your projectile volleys.

    Also, be careful with the sweep > GDO. If you're too cose, GDO has a tendency to pass by the opponent, though you can use that to your advantage. In my experience, people tend to get hit if you cancel a whiffed GDO into Argus. I don't know if they're attempting to punish the whiff or if they're attempting to pushblock it and getting a normal, but it has worked.

    On a side note, I've been recording my recent matches. I've only uploaded the ones that go back and forth, but I have a bunch more where I pretty much don't lose. Are they worth putting up? The most recent one wasn't too lopsided and had some decent moments, including what looked like a ragequit ending. Don't want it to look like I enjoy beating on newbies. I'd gladly upload videos where I got stomped.
    Skullgirls: Peacock / PSN: TheIdiomatic
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    snip.

    hey, YEAH if you want to show some more ownage peacock that would be VERY nice… i personally think that one of the best ways to learn a character is to watch blowouts from that character… reasoning because blowouts generally feature much more obvious patterns and tendencies and therefor show what the player should be looking to do with said character.

    higher level back and forth matches while excellent for the high level players of said character dont show a beginner how to use that character. they show a beginner how to mimick high level play… but that beginner will straight up lose to… anti beginner strats unlike the actual high level player.

    ie higher level peacock fights:

    the opponent moves forward a bit less, jumps a bit less… therefor is easier to run an overload strat against

    beginner level peacock fights:

    opponent never stops dashing/jumping forward… peacock under alot of pressure.




    the only way to see how the fights transfer from lower level to higher level is to see a peacock own someone that uses that forward movement all day strat...

    my peacock is stil decidedly ow level as i cant force patience upon my opponents yet… i mainly am getting stuff done by going offensive and it gets frustrating not being able to properly play keepaway with her… I want to press MOAR BUTTONS!

    buttons are fun

    -edit… also whats wrong with beating on newbies? i LOVE beating on newbs/beginners/scrubs/ whoever..

    its always the MOST enjoyabe when theyknow a little bit abut what they ae doing… then you can bring out your best theory fighter shit and anti scrub tactics and look like a freakin G

    like ddsouls vids where he owns up a bunch of players that arent nearly as good as him… those are some of my favorite p-cock vids :rofl:
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • PartialartistPartialartist Joined: Posts: 176
    I'm not saying it's not fun. Beasting on someone is the best way to start the day. I just worry they won't be as entertaining to watch, as I'm a very defensive player. Then again, it never hurts to have more SG media to view. I'll upload at least the last set tonight, while I wait for the patch to go live.
    Skullgirls: Peacock / PSN: TheIdiomatic
  • poryon2poryon2 aka ocean Joined: Posts: 512
    Very good thread. Peacock is my best (and only) good character in SG and I devote her almost entirely to keepaway, which has been a winning strategy as I've won a local and placed 2nd at SB:A. Not sure if you've mentioned this, but an incredibly stupidly easy tactic (taken from MvC3) is crossup teleport. Simply call assist and do crossup teleport (or not crossup) for a free mixup. I haven't tested this in a while, but IIRC the assist will follow you as you teleport. For example you can be fullscreen away, call assist and teleport, and the assist will come out around where you teleport. Depending on the assist this is even safe and you can get a combo off of it.

    I'm trying to think of more to add, but you guys got a lot already, like how good bombs are and using j.JP and j.HK along with back airdahses to fly across the screen while throwing stuff on the screen.

    Throwing GDO can be somewhat of a trap, since it will go across the screen until destroyed. It's possible to be in the corner, throw a bomb and teleport out, and if you get punished or hit the bomb can save you.

    I'm pretty sure the alpha counter item drop just drops the item as soon as you exit blockstun. While not a real alpha counter it forces the opponent to either safely end the blockstring or land a hit on Peacock. I also like to do this with pushblocking, because if you pushblock odds are they won't be able to hit Peacock in time before the item drops.

    Anyway great thread hope it develops. Peacock has some great neutral game (some of my favorite in any fighting game).
    umvc3: pw/haggar/arthur
    skullgirls: peacock/double
    persona 4 arena: teddie
    psn: poryon2 (umvc3, kof13, skullgrills, p4a)
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,796
    Posting up vids where you destroy noobs won't really help, imo. Basically, you can just do w/e you want and as long as you have some knowledge/tactic to fall back on, you'll never lose. Like, watching DD Soul vids would have you think that charging H Shadow during long range is a winning strat, as is running in full throttle with H Shadow charged, but that's just because his opponents can't figure out how to stop it/aren't at the level where him not having access to his H moves is a problem. You can learn some pretty bad tactics from it, imo.

    Anyway, to add to the discussion I want to talk about j.lp. Really good when mixed up with air grab, j.mp and c.lk; it's fast, has a decent hit-box and can chain into a re-stand combo on hit, good to stop opponents from trying to knock you out of your grab attempt. Use c.lk to preempt air-to-air attempts and win out. Air throw with no item should always end with a GDO to deal with the forward tech, throw with level 1 can convert into lvl 2 item drop -> AA, throw with level 2 can convert into teleport combo.

    Also, the GDO block string ender tends to miss Fortune if it's done too close.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    Posting up vids where you destroy noobs won't really help, imo. Basically, you can just do w/e you want and as long as you have some knowledge/tactic to fall back on, you'll never lose. Like, watching DD Soul vids would have you think that charging H Shadow during long range is a winning strat, as is running in full throttle with H Shadow charged, but that's just because his opponents can't figure out how to stop it/aren't at the level where him not having access to his H moves is a problem. You can learn some pretty bad tactics from it, imo.

    i dont think i took anything bad away from ddsouls vids… the stuff thats good is obvous and the trolling stuff is obvious and it really gives a player watching him perspective on how to make things work and why he gets away with some stuff whereas lesser players wouldnt.

    though to be fair i havent watched his vids in awhile.

    yeah, for beginning players i think its good to see a good player owning with there character… kinda like "this is what this character is capable of against the right opponents and in the right hands"

    but for people that are already comfortable /know there characters very well then this type of play would do no good.

    i certainly couldnt watch ibuki matches where shes using all the anti scrub tricks in the book cause im far beyond that… still, knowing that stuff right off the bat would imho help to learn her… i still use all my scrubbuster tech against good opponents… i just use it a WHOLE LOT LESS against them...


    though im not willing to argue the point

    Anyway, to add to the discussion I want to talk about j.lp. Really good when mixed up with air grab, j.mp and c.lk; it's fast, has a decent hit-box and can chain into a re-stand combo on hit, good to stop opponents from trying to knock you out of your grab attempt. Use c.lk to preempt air-to-air attempts and win out. Air throw with no item should always end with a GDO to deal with the forward tech, throw with level 1 can convert into lvl 2 item drop -> AA, throw with level 2 can convert into teleport combo.

    Also, the GDO block string ender tends to miss Fortune if it's done too close.

    good to know about MF.

    i havent thrown j.lp into my game… what is the confirm?
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,796
    Not willing to argue? Wtf? o_O

    joking, lol. The confirm I use is j.lp, j.lk (variable hits, normally 2), j.mp, iad j.lp, j.lk (1 hit), j.mp. Everything after the iad is on hit, you have enough time to do st.lp after the landing j.mp and that allows you to re-stand and combo into w/e.

    Edit:

    Just realized that the confirm is either j.lp, j.lk, j.mp OR j.lp, j.lk, j.hp. It's been a while, so I can't remember which one it is. Just test and see.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • PartialartistPartialartist Joined: Posts: 176
    *Good point*

    I definitely get where you're coming from. I fought a Peacock player who got me with that snapback style combo from a DDSoul video. Thought to myself "Alright, you spent all your meter and didn't kill me. Good job."

    There are some cases where adding a snapback to a combo can help. If you're wailing on someone in the corner and can't buffer an item hold, you can use snapback to knock them into the middle of the screen, then do Argus or set up your projectile game. It'll be a better option after the patch, since snapbacks will restore a ground bounce. Hm, now I'm wondering if you'd be able to go snapback > teleport xx Argus, so you don't have to worry about getting out of the corner. So many things to try, but enough combo talk. This is the neutral thread.

    I can aready tell that qcf.hk xx qcf.mk is going to be nice. Usually, I use an item drop to cover the gap, so the opponent can't jump over boxcar and I can use it for teleport crossups. Now, as long as I know the plane will connect, the drop shouldn't be necessary.
    Skullgirls: Peacock / PSN: TheIdiomatic
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    i was thinking about a couple of other things guys and wanted to see what you guys think:

    do you think it would be good as a rule not to argus agony x2 when we are holding item drop unless its going to kill? the thing is that after AA we are at a decent full screen disadvantage and the opponent can usually make it to half screen without us being able to do something about it… maybe just letting SID hit and give us mucho frame advantage to get out a couple of georges and setup our fullscreen keepaway would be much more powerful in the long run?

    it seems like it may be so and we conserve meter as well. i got the idea from remembering ddsouls vids where he often just decided to use st.hk to setup a further offense by charging sid and releasing gdo.

    OH SHIT! i just thought of some theory fighter stuff:

    from fullscreen st.hp xx teleport crosses up… if we can time a lvl2 sid to hit just as argus is completing and then time st.hp to make contact with the opponent just as they rcover from the lvl 2… we may have a 50/50 mixup after any sid installed argus...

    thoughts on all of this?
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,796
    For now, throw GDO before the second AA and then execute so opponent has to deal with point blank GDO after the AA completes. Post patch, that new george cancel will have the GDO hit so you can set-up your range game or do another AA.

    I had thought of the post AA, lvl 2 Shadow idea way back and went into testing with it. In theory it could work, but in practice the window for the cannon ball xx teleport is pretty tight and will probably just result in the opponent jumping out of the mix-up altogether. If you can get the timing down for the teleport, you could do something with H Teleport/Fake H Teleport though; M Teleport generally lands too far from the opponent to combo off of (cannon ball pushes opponent back).

    The thing about the teleports though, new teleports are supposed to leave Peacock closer to the opponent, so she may actually have access to left/right mix-ups where either side can become a combo now. A decent way of testing the distance of current teleports is throw xx GDO, BCG, M/H Teleport. That distance is pretty similar to cannon ball xx teleport distance.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • PartialartistPartialartist Joined: Posts: 176
    New dash mechanic is amazing! So much easier to make space.
    Skullgirls: Peacock / PSN: TheIdiomatic
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    New dash mechanic is amazing! So much easier to make space.

    why is that? can she cancel a backdash into another backdash?

    also are you still going to put up those vids of you ownin some noobs? i like seeing noobs get owned :)
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • PartialartistPartialartist Joined: Posts: 176
    She can cancel her backdash into her dash, then cancel the start of that into another backdash. b.pp, pp, b.pp...

    And here:

    Of the sets I had yet to upload, this guy did the best. I made a lot of mistakes, too.
    Skullgirls: Peacock / PSN: TheIdiomatic
  • Darlos9DDarlos9D Joined: Posts: 90
    She can cancel her backdash into her dash, then cancel the start of that into another backdash. b.pp, pp, b.pp...

    And here:

    Of the sets I had yet to upload, this guy did the best. I made a lot of mistakes, too.

    Argus Agony: Best anti-air.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    a ridiculously good pattern that AOF found in our games is j.mk adc j.mk

    and string into gdo into lvl 1 hp sid… not a true blockstring but really good for getting a frame advantage and then doing j.mk adc j.mk (and can repeat)… in lag it feels like a lockdown… dont know what it would be like offline, probably not so good but has its uses when done smartly...

    pretty damn good in the peacock mirror as j.mk substitutes as a fast jump in attack… but only works against a grounded opponent unlike a jump attack that can also hit airborn opponents, so it takes a good read to use well.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    A theory fighter offensive pattern i just stumbled upon whos aim is to go offensive with lvl 2 hp drop while also getting as close as possible to the opponent in as little time as possible:


    Call lvl1 item drop hold, immediately super jump forward, double jump at apex of height, airdash at apex of double jump height, release item drop in the middle of airdash.


    This moves peacock fullscreen towards the opponent quickly while charging an item drop which becomes lvl 2 at the top (apex) of the double jump.


    With that pattern peacock is able to airdash then release lvl 2 sid and if sid hits a grounded opponent, peacock can convert to full combo if within range. Plus if she has a long ranged assist she can call it out upon landing... So a way to use an "assist" on the way in and an assist to lockdown as well.


    It seems pretty legit to me as peacock gets really high in the air from the super jump double jump so it will be hard for the opponent to hit her out of the air and then she can come down with a homing item on there head and go from there.


    Anywho just needed to write that down... I be forgetting my theory fighter stuff all the time.

    Need to test this out in non peacock mirrors as peacock is one of the only characters that seems to have an easy counter to this besides generic rushdown.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,144 mod
    Argus Agony: Best anti-air.
    Since I'm running her with 'Bella now, I prefer to Cerecopter assist as AA, then hp item drop (hold) then Argus, dropping the item after the hyper. If I have meter for it, I use that item drop to combo into another Argus.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    Well, my peacock is progressing rather slowly... I still have a hard time keeping people away from me... Its her atrocious AA game... I can aa people 3-4 times in a row and they still wont slow down... Just dash jump in x infinity... Teleport x infinity beats this.... But im thinking that there has to be something better... And via soul searching and new awesome training mode i THINK i may have found the one pattern to rule them all:

    Against predictable asshole rushdown asshat dash jump x infinity nub ( ie myself when i play against peacock with like painwheel :)

    Jump hp xx lk bomber xx backdash xx jhk

    As long as you make contact with the jhp blocked or hit peacock should be near fullscreen and have frame advantage to get out georges and/or sid if they block its fullscreen, if they pushblock, again thats fullscreen both with frame advantage. If they get hit is the worst for peacock as bomber can act kinda funky there, but still peacock should have way more distance on her opponent than if she did airdashback jhk and they jumped forward at the same time.


    Now that isnt all, peacocks jhp when used preemptively is probably one of the strongest air to airs in the game. When we combine that with an invincible non duckable bomber covering ground is when it becomes special... Ie if the jhp wiffed air to ground on a bad guess... Hornet bomber is there to cover for you, engage in stunning the opponent and allowing peacock to still get mucho range.

    This pattern has its holes such as if the jhp wiffs against a character that is just about to jump but isnt quite in the air yet, they can also inadvertently jump the bomber... But thats where peacocks airdash back jhk comes into play... Even if the opponent somehow makes it through the maze they still have to continue moving forward.


    Anywho i KNOW that on block and pushblock this is AMAZING, on hit its still better than airdash back jhk. And it also does good chip when blocked cause of bomber... So yeah just throwing this pattern out there for any double users not using it to go ahead and try out.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,796
    Hit them with the j.lp, j.lk, j.hp starter into re-stand combo, that will slow them down pretty fast or kill them outright if they don't respect it. Also, charge HP Shadow, air grab -> drop item (lvl 2) -> Argus Agony is a decent option for making a fast air throw count, especially now that air throw launches the opponent higher. Teleport * infinity won't stop people from derping with jumps because it's not a threat, just adds to the chase. Try to make those predictable patterns an opening to your offense.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • Master_ChibiMaster_Chibi .: Dynamites! :. Joined: Posts: 15,066 mod
    J.LP is a very good air to air, it's really underrated.
    ~*Hai! Back to Japan!
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    Hit them with the j.lp, j.lk, j.hp starter into re-stand combo, that will slow them down pretty fast or kill them outright if they don't respect it. Also, charge HP Shadow, air grab -> drop item (lvl 2) -> Argus Agony is a decent option for making a fast air throw count, especially now that air throw launches the opponent higher. Teleport * infinity won't stop people from derping with jumps because it's not a threat, just adds to the chase. Try to make those predictable patterns an opening to your offense.


    Also, if peacock is holding a lvl 1 hp sid... Then jlp,jmp release sid (which will be lvl 2) will knock them to the ground and allow full launch combo... Not hard at all, was practicing restands on max height flyin painwheel in tmode
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,796
    Man, I though the patch would have brought new life to these forums, but it's as dead as ever. =/

    So, targeting assists with Argus. Have a strong invul DHC for Peacock ready and two meter, H Shadow (Hold) xx Argus Agony bad assist calls. Vs Fortune and Pain Wheel, it's pretty much free with the item drop backing it, since they have to jump to punish long range AA and you can just drop item on their head when they do.
    Vs Filia and possibly Double, you do that anytime you have two meter and if a counter super is attempted, DHC. Fillia's Gregor Samson will straight up lose, Double's Car can be punished differently depending on the DHC. For example, I AA a bad assist call vs a Filia, naturally she'll want to counter with Gregor Samson. However, I DHC into Bella Ultimate Showstopper and she gets punished. Similar thing can occur for other characters.

    Double is an interesting case though. Due to the way she recovers after the car, you can follow-up with full combos if your DHC recovers quickly enough or ends in a way to capitalize on her recovery (Diamond Dynamo will connect with the last hit and ground bounce Double forward, for example). Try to add H Shadow xx Argus Agony to your game with a strong DHC for killing assists. Drop the item at the end of Argus for extra damage on the assist and lock-down on the point once they start respecting the DHC option.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • ZidianeZidiane KPB team member, SRK writer Joined: Posts: 1,225
    Hrg... I'm going to take all of this information... reorganize it... then reread it so that I can easily retain information. I have a hard time fully taking in information that's organized in this way, with some of it over here and some of it over there. I'll learn it all one way or another. I guess I might as well do the same thing to the combo thread while I'm at it...
    xbl/psn: Zidiane/zidiane5
    Skullgirls: Cerebella, SSB Melee: Kirby, Samus
    Ever wonder how to play Cerebella, of Skullgirls fame? Here's a guide I made!
  • PartialartistPartialartist Joined: Posts: 176
    Yeah, the combo thread's a bit of a mess. Ando was supposed to update the first post, but hasn't gotten to it. I don't help much, as I tend to make videos for older combos, while writing about newer ones. Just recently got a mic, so I can do the tutorial video without editing in text. Apparently, I'm going to have to record the mic audio separately and mix it with the game audio, but it's still better than the alternative.
    Skullgirls: Peacock / PSN: TheIdiomatic
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    Though it has already been mentioned, one pattern that i think we should all use more is argus agony into lvl 2-3 sid... Seriously this gives peacock such a huge strategic advantage at fullscreen that enough really cant be said about it...

    Peaocock is at her unequivocal strongest when shes at fullscreen with frame advantage...

    Argus is the only move besides hornet bomber, that puts the opponent at fullscreen for peacock, even bomber though can be teched forward from, reducing some of the positional advantage.

    Whereas AA i to lvl2 sid FORCES the opponent to come to peacock from a frame disadavantage and from all the way across the screen... The opponent afaik has no one move threat to get in... It will take 2 moves and that is what makes it so good...peacock gets a "free" move to set stuff up and knock back the opponent.

    Like if she jumps away and her opponent jumped toward... They are 2 moves away again... This is quite strong as long as peacock has running room and because opponents tend to panic in this situation and allow peacock to keepaway easier without running away.



    Anywho, i think it should be peacocks bnb off of otg and off of regualr combos... Its what i will be trying to do as much as possible.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    So another few patterns im liking:


    L>m>h bomb cancel into held sid then go on the offense. Seems pretty gaood as it allows peacock to put up a wall of shit in order to get out a safe hp sid charge.


    The cool thing about this pattern besides that it protects a charged hp item drop, os that it is easily repeatable if the item drop gets to lvl 2... So that is a spammable pattern if there ever was one... Though of course in game you wont be able to spam it that easy... But there will always be the threat of being able to do something like that... Also note that the first bomb can be called while also calling out an invulnerable assist to protect peacock and at the very least be a meatshield against would be assist projectiles...this is a VERY GOOD pattern to know and be able to pull out in a pinch in the right places
    2nd pattern:

    The overload pattern that i stated in the op, only you dont use l or m georges... Just use st.hp xx h george, st.hp xx lvl 1 h item drop and repeat the pattern ad nauseam.

    The pattern isnt good enough to keepaway forever, but it does give damn good half to full screen pressure... Generally you only want to repeat the pattern a couple of times before throwing out some l and m georges or mixing up the pattern even more.


    3rd pattern:

    With a lockdown assist on assist 1:

    Call out lk george while calling out lockdown assist... This seems really good for general offensive stuff.. The lk george comes out very fast, has remarkably good range for its speed, has high hitstun, and has very fast recovery while also being able to hit somewhat airborn opponents this is in my mind peacocks best pressure tool by far and becomes super special when you combine it with wiffed sweep to move forward then call lk george and lockdown.

    This seems to work best with bellas lockdown, but works really well with painwheels lockdown N probably works really well with filias as well, though you could of course use this pattern well with just about any quick assist... May even be damn good on block when combined with a throw assist... Imagine that tick throw... Wow...i Need to check that out.


    So those are the primary patterns im messing around with right now... All seem really good and promising, perhaps you guys should check them out as well if you arent already using them... You may end up liking them.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,122
    Im pretty sure that no one will read this.. Which almost makes this even better cause i can say that i posted it up at this time... New pattern not necessarily from myself but straight jacked from tjgamers and cisco kids patterns: I actually came up with this pattern a couple of days ago BEFORE i saw tj putting into action against duckator... But i digress, his play showed me that the pattern isnt just theory fighter good, it is "can beat duckator" good... Which is good enough in my book. Anywho the pattern is both obvious and genius at the same time: Hml bomb cancel in that order, then call lvl 1 item drop. And thats it for the pattern as he would do different things after that... HOWEVER! I found a really good transposition into another really good pattern as well as watching ciscokids peacock allowed me to do something that not even tj has put into his game yet: The transposition is tjs pattern (h>m>l bomb, lvl 1 sid) and then: st.hp + double hk bomber xx h bomb xx m bomb, st.hp xx lvl 1 sid, st.hp xx h bomb xx m bomb (repeat the st.hp xx h bomb, st.hp xx lvl 1 sid x infinity) its an infinite bomb pattern... One of many but it gives good all around coverage and allows time to plan your next attack or retreat. Speaking of retreat, one of the things i noticed about ciscos game that isnt in any other peacocks game is CISCO HOLDS HIS GROUND. He'll back up once or twice at the start of the round... But after that its spam time... Even if the opponent gets close to him he wont retreat as long as he has a good supply of bombs available... Unlike most peacocks that only seem comfortable when playing keepaway against a foe from fullscreen. I applied ciscos iron wall non moving strategy and tjs pattern starter to come up with my own ridiculous bomb cheese. And it worked in actual matchups... Like keeping my opponents entire team on the opposite side of the screen the entire game kind of cheese... I fucked up alot, it isnt a perfect pattern by any means... But its damn good and outputs so much crap at one time its ridiculous. Oh yeah, and last but not least, the secret to why ciscos iron wall strategy works so well: Peacocks bombs get better the closer the opponent is... And in fact are at there best when the opponent is about 1/2 to 3/4 screen away... Even right up close is peacocks territory if she has a full bomb compliment: Up close she will put a lk bomb in your grill then follow that up with an mk bomb then hk bomb then immediately after do a st.hp plus bomber xx item drop then since thwy are close the lk bomb and mk bomb will have already cooled down so shell do lmh bombs again and if any of that stuff hit its argus agony time pushing back to fullscreen. If it all gets blocked she can still jhp xx airdash xx j.hk then land and start the pattern all over again with hml bomb into lvl 1 sid etc etc etc So yeah, i was surprised how good this was against an opposing peacock of all characters and it absolutely destroyed bella... Definitely a pattern to learn and have ready at all times... And if you dont believe me just watch tj versus duck and cisco against mike... The answers are in there... Though i cant get a head on ciscos bomb patterns... Those are things of genius that i cant comprehend... Tjs though? Those are right up my alley.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • IllusTreyteIllusTreyte Joined: Posts: 79
    can someone tell me what all you have to do in order to get the level 3 sid to drop the steamroller special. i keep getting it and its interfering with a nice lil combo/reset that i believe i have come up with
    "Win with a Grain of Salt. Lose with a Grain of Sugar." - IllusTreyte
    PSN: IllusTreyte / XBLA: IllusTreyte
    UMVC3~ Taskmaster-Varies-Varies / SG~ Nadia and Patricia / Injustice:GAU~ Hawkgirl, Killer Frost, Shazaam
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