Solo-Character Only Tournaments?

JiikaeJiikae Joined: Posts: 6
Random thought, one main complaint I hear about Skullgirls is that, if played optimally, 50-75% of the cast is present in every match and that it gets monotonous to some people, which I think is BS. But regardless, it brought an idea to mind: what if we had a solo-character only tournament standard. It would co-exist with playing Skullgirls normally. They do a similar thing in the Smash community with team tournaments and 1v1 tournament standards co-existing together, so I don't see why it couldn't be done here. It'd almost be like playing a separate game and it could make it fun for some people who prefer 1v1 style matches. Thoughts?

PS: If this has been a thread before go ahead and lock it.

Comments

  • ZidianeZidiane HyperCharging YOLO STAR Joined: Posts: 1,222
    Dont bother. People don't like to hear it. Some like it, but most think of it as "Not the true way of Fighting Games" or something. Kinda like KOF13, I guess. I prefer solo and enjoy 1v1, and I think it's just as fun, if not funner (cause you see more of the each character and what they must do alone), but my opinion is rather lonely. If you could convince people, sweet beans, I'd love a solo-tourney right beside all of the "regular" tournaments, but at this point at least it doesn't seem likely. Maybe when the patch hits, when combos are shorter and resets are up, we'll see a slow shift in opinions.
    xbl/psn: Zidiane/zidiane5
    Skullgirls: Cerebella, SSB Melee: Kirby, Samus
    Ever wonder how to play Cerebella, of Skullgirls fame? Here's a guide I made!
  • JiikaeJiikae Joined: Posts: 6
    That sucks to hear that people aren't open to it. Especially considering the fact that it's not like it would replace the standard and it'd also help from a spectator's perspective.
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,686
    Just play solo vs team and deal with the pros & cons.

    Edit:

    Removed second line because I'm too lazy to explain what I meant.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • JiikaeJiikae Joined: Posts: 6
    Just play solo vs team and deal with the pros & cons. Play a good enough solo and you can force people to go solo to deal with it.
    It's not that I think people should play solo. In fact, I play with a team. I'm just suggesting an alternative ruleset that would add another dynamic to the competitive scene. This would *co-exist* alongside playing regularly. I already used smash as an example. But it's just a suggestion.
  • Uncivilized ElkUncivilized Elk Joined: Posts: 713
    Just play solo vs team and deal with the pros & cons. Play a good enough solo and you can force people to go solo to deal with it.
    "Force" someone to go solo by playing a good solo? Not sure what kind of game you're playing... But it's not SG.
    PSN: Uncivilized_Elk
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,686
    "Force" someone to go solo by playing a good solo? Not sure what kind of game you're playing... But it's not SG.

    lol, if you say so.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • ZidianeZidiane HyperCharging YOLO STAR Joined: Posts: 1,222
    See what I meaaan, bruh? People become attached to their assists, and cant see being "forced" to play without them.
    xbl/psn: Zidiane/zidiane5
    Skullgirls: Cerebella, SSB Melee: Kirby, Samus
    Ever wonder how to play Cerebella, of Skullgirls fame? Here's a guide I made!
  • JiikaeJiikae Joined: Posts: 6
    See what I meaaan, bruh? People become attached to their assists, and cant see being "forced" to play without them.
    Yeah. I was thinking people would keep an open mind considering how young the community still is right now. But whatever, if the community doesn't want to do it there's no point in trying to convince verbally, people know how they want to play the game and I understand that..I've been on the internet long enough to know how these things work. I may try to run a tournament with that format as a proof of concept or something though. Who knows, but eh
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,686
    Do what you want with your tourneys; nothing wrong with custom rules. I just don't see taking away options being a standard format when nothing broken is involved, imo.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • ZidianeZidiane HyperCharging YOLO STAR Joined: Posts: 1,222
    Right now, doing it would prove very difficult. However, if you can catch the community at that point where its getting more characters, and it starts growing again, you may be able to set that as an actual standard. Wait too long and it won't work. I'm too inconsistent to get it done, but if anyonee out there can hear me...
    xbl/psn: Zidiane/zidiane5
    Skullgirls: Cerebella, SSB Melee: Kirby, Samus
    Ever wonder how to play Cerebella, of Skullgirls fame? Here's a guide I made!
  • ZidianeZidiane HyperCharging YOLO STAR Joined: Posts: 1,222
    Do what you want with your tourneys; nothing wrong with custom rules. I just don't see taking away options being a standard format when nothing broken is involved, imo.
    Yeah... But it's impossible to start something like this, unless you jave special tournament prizes, because everyone has this EXACT mindset. So... blah.
    xbl/psn: Zidiane/zidiane5
    Skullgirls: Cerebella, SSB Melee: Kirby, Samus
    Ever wonder how to play Cerebella, of Skullgirls fame? Here's a guide I made!
  • Age_of_FoolsAge_of_Fools Joined: Posts: 705
    If you have enough people for weekly tournaments, just do special rules every now and again. 1v1, split the group into halves and play a team battle, random select, etc. I really like how 1v1 is pretty distinct from solo vs team, so I'd be into a 1v1 tourney if there were enough local players.
    Beginner's Guide to Cerebella
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  • evilweevleevilweevle Xbox GT : MrFossy Joined: Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭
    Random thought, one main complaint I hear about Skullgirls is that, if played optimally, 50-75% of the cast is present in every match and that it gets monotonous to some people, which I think is BS. But regardless, it brought an idea to mind: what if we had a solo-character only tournament standard. It would co-exist with playing Skullgirls normally. They do a similar thing in the Smash community with team tournaments and 1v1 tournament standards co-existing together, so I don't see why it couldn't be done here. It'd almost be like playing a separate game and it could make it fun for some people who prefer 1v1 style matches. Thoughts?

    PS: If this has been a thread before go ahead and lock it.

    may i refer you to this thread....

    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-best-of-the-best.167895/


    we are supposed to be in the mandatory solo portion of the tourny atm, although a lot of people have dropped off from doing it atm. hopefully this might pick up again at some point in the future as things were going pretty well in the first week or so of it starting.

    it was run as mandatory teams, then solos, and free for all after that.

    im usually up for solo matches every now and then to help me improve my neutral/defense etc, but i only think it would serve to divide people more than it will bring them together. People refusing to play against teams/solos only etc etc.
    3DS friend code : 0232 8273 2994
  • Uncivilized ElkUncivilized Elk Joined: Posts: 713
    See what I meaaan, bruh? People become attached to their assists, and cant see being "forced" to play without them.
    Are you illiterate?
    If somebody is playing a good solo, that doesn't somehow inherently make you more evenly matched with them if you go solo yourself. That's just stupid.
    I already play solo 75% of the time to begin with, "bruh".
    lol, if you say so.
    Care to explain how going solo makes you capable of playing against an opposing solo better than using a team? Unless you had more practice and are better with a solo character to begin with?
    (Hint: It doesn't.)


    To OP, organize what you want and hope for a good turnout.
    PSN: Uncivilized_Elk
  • ZidianeZidiane HyperCharging YOLO STAR Joined: Posts: 1,222
    Are you illiterate?
    If somebody is playing a good solo, that doesn't somehow inherently make you more evenly matched with them if you go solo yourself. That's just stupid.
    I already play solo 75% of the time to begin with, "bruh".
    Yo bruh my nig wat u cant get solo my nig com at me gt on my levl bich.

    Seriously though. Calling someone illiterate for using slang is in poor taste, and not to mention incorrect. Illiterate implies I cannot read.

    On topic, solo and versus any teams are not even. Regardless. Ask anyone on the board. When playing teams with assists that are different, that match will not be even. Certain assists beat certain strategies, certain assists are better, etc etc. We all know this. Playing against another person 1v1 is the closest test, without outside factors like which character was used, to see which player is more skilled. Teams, and assists, are designed for the player doing the best they can to tip the match in their favor before it begins. While it is true that you could say the same of solos, that each character is different and thus effects the outcome of the match, 1v1 is the LEAST 'biased' when it comes to who wins the match. Skill always triumphs in the end, but 1v1 helps make it a little clearer.

    Not saying teams are unskilled. Seriously.
    xbl/psn: Zidiane/zidiane5
    Skullgirls: Cerebella, SSB Melee: Kirby, Samus
    Ever wonder how to play Cerebella, of Skullgirls fame? Here's a guide I made!
  • Uncivilized ElkUncivilized Elk Joined: Posts: 713
    Illiterate implies I cannot read.

    1239037127536.png

    Holy mother of Beetlejuice, that IS what I was implying!! I wasn't calling you illiterate because of one slang word, I was calling you illiterate because you failed to read.

    view619 claimed that if you play a good solo, your opponent will be forced to go solo in order to overcome you! That's BS, as I pointed out.
    Can you please read in the future?
    PSN: Uncivilized_Elk
  • ZidianeZidiane HyperCharging YOLO STAR Joined: Posts: 1,222
    Can you please read in the future?
    You still used the word incorrectly. I assumed you mistakenly believed the word to be defined one way because of your highlighting of the word "bruh", but you were apparently going for the abstract definition of the word that you invented which describes a person who can read and write perfectly well yet cannot fully connect one persons statements to another.
    I wasn't even referring to that part of view69's post. I've never encountered a situation where I beat someone so bad solo that they picked solo (without them believing I cheated, picking solo and playing two more rounds before disconnecting), I assumed that didn't deserve a response. I was pointing to the
    wrote:
    Just play solo vs team and deal with the pros & cons.
    wrote:
    I just don't see taking away options being a standard format.
    parts of his words when I was speaking. So, you can continue this, or whatever, but I'm going to move on to...

    An on topic post. As a continuation of my last on topic post, I'd like to say that Fighting Games are a lot like gambling. When two people play, without any knowledge of the game or how to play, the chance of either of them winning is roughly 50%. If one player gains more experience, that players odds tip in his favor. They do the same thing when that player becomes more familiar with the match-up, when that player has in-depth knowledge of their character, when that player masters their combos, and all the other things that are attributed to the win off a match.

    Eventually, the chances of that player winning against the initial player become 99.9%, if that player hadn't trained as well. However, should the now skilled player come across another equally skilled player, the chance of him winning will balance out around 50%. If that player comes across a better player, his chances of winning drop down, even below 10%.

    Character choices effect the percentage of one player winning against another, but playing solo in Skullgirls makes the change in percentage as minimal, outside the players personal abilities, as possible. Using a three man team adds variables, more than any other team fighter because of the custom assists. The variables, I'm sure everyone already knows, are one (more like up to six) for red health, one for strategy with assists and dhc's and alpha counter's and the aforementioned red health, one for assists, three (nine counting the opponents team) for character order, and three (to nine) for character match-ups (which will be effected by assists, so more like forty-five variables). All of these variables effect your win percentage against a given person. If you don't believe me, then mess with your formula. Alter your assists, switch around your order, dhc more/less often. Your skill won't be effected, but your win ratio sure will be.

    So, in a way, using teams is like using Gems. Or, more accurately, Capcom wanted to model Gems after what made their team games so popular... the teams. Gems effect your chance of winning the same way teams do. It's not their fault that it worked out so horrendously. Maybe it would have worked without paid gems in a solo game.

    End of discussion? Basically what I said in my first post. People don't want to go at things without those variables. They make it easier to hide weaknesses, harder to be hurt for your mistakes, and easier to overcome difficult opponents. Not to say that Solo is the Ultimate form of competing, not at all, those variables are the things that really make the game challenging, but if you really want to see who's more skilled, you or Rival-X, go solo.

    PS. The only games that aren't effected by this idea I've presented are games like KOF13, where you have a team but they do not appear in the current match until it is their turn.
    xbl/psn: Zidiane/zidiane5
    Skullgirls: Cerebella, SSB Melee: Kirby, Samus
    Ever wonder how to play Cerebella, of Skullgirls fame? Here's a guide I made!
  • view619view619 ざわ ざわ ざわ Joined: Posts: 1,686
    Umm, effectively managing a team and its options requires skill. It's not just "oh, I have another character, it's now easier to win". Playing a team for the sake of all of these things that you can't effectively manage actually reduces your chances of winning vs using a solo. I think your post just shows that you don't fully understand how team dynamics work.
    "You can lead a scrub to techniques, but you can't make him think."
  • ZidianeZidiane HyperCharging YOLO STAR Joined: Posts: 1,222
    Umm, effectively managing a team and its options requires skill.
    Of course. But like I said, it adds variables. Many, many variables. 1v1 is the only style you can play with the least amount of outside variables. And in my opinion, the only way to see which two fighters has the most skill, whether in fighting games or anything else, is to have both fields as even as possible.
    It's not just "oh, I have another character, it's now easier to win". Playing a team for the sake of all of these things that you can't effectively manage actually reduces your chances of winning vs using a solo.
    I know. Which is why I said it like this...
    All of these variables effect your win percentage against a given person.
    Not benefit, or add to, it effects your percentage. Which means, if you don't have the optimal team, then you are in a worse position. If your opponent has the optimal team, than they have the advantage. Even if you are both just as skilled, if you both manage your stuff as best as possible, it won't be even or in your favor because you don't have the correct layout.

    Every battle is about Strategy and Tactics. I'm a tactics man, which is why I like solo battles. Teams are too strategy orientated for me.

    Edit: Also, this is why I said
    Not saying teams are unskilled. Seriously.
    earlier. I knew I was going to be mistaken for believing Teams are unskilled.
    xbl/psn: Zidiane/zidiane5
    Skullgirls: Cerebella, SSB Melee: Kirby, Samus
    Ever wonder how to play Cerebella, of Skullgirls fame? Here's a guide I made!
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,340 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This would be like Marvel 2's low tier tourneys. Something just to add a different dynamic to the game. You already see this when 2 people play solo characters any ways or when a multi character team is down to their last characters. It's not like people who use teams are never in a situation where they have to just fight 1 v 1. In Marvel 2 and 3 part of being good is knowing how to play when it's down to your character with no partner footsies to call.

    That's why characters like Ms.Fortune or Double can be strong as anchor because they have tools that are basically like still having an assist available even when they're by themselves.



    I don't know why you guys are having such a Teletubby whine fest about this shit losing purses n shit. As the game gets more popular in tourneys and gets more characters there's always time to try it. Overall though the concept of playing with assists means you have to handle more dynamics than in a 1v1 match which is why people love 2 or 3 character assist calling type games. There's a lot more footsies and cancel scenarios you have to be aware of than in a typical fighting game.

    Which it's not very surprising that very few fighting games on the market use the character concept that Marvel 2/3 and Skullgirls utilize. It's very abstract compared to typical fighting games and takes a while to learn all of the intricacies.








    Overall it's just hard to convince people to use just one character when the whole point of these types of games is the creativity around managing multiple characters. The ability to call on the help of another character for footsies or safely get your hurt character out and a fresh one in, in real time. It's a very rare experience in fighting games so it's hard to just convince people to stray from that to go back to what they can do in 97 percent of the other fighting games on the market. After playing UMVC3 and now Skullgirls...I can see how people got so addicted to Marvel 2 that literally everything else seemed boring. Just so much to create and be aware of.

    Watching Salty Cupcakes it's not surprise that the OG MVC2 players like Megaman and BB Hood are running 3 character teams. The game is basically designed around that type of play except they give you the option of bringing a more traditional fighting game mentality to the fight if you want to also.
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  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭
    I run 1, 2 and 3 character teams

    Get at me.
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
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  • worldjem7worldjem7 Seven World Jems Joined: Posts: 544
    Having a solo tournament would be like having a low tier tournament.

    I'm not against the idea, but how often do you see low tier tournaments in other games?
  • guitalex2007guitalex2007 Joined: Posts: 3,023
    lol, if you say so.
    I know so.

    Anyone who has ever, ever, ever, ever made the mistake of going solo against me after doing OK with a team will attest to this.
    Ms. Fortune is great. Everybody likes a little head action every now and then.
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