Extremely Specific Tier List Question

WizHawkinWizHawkin Joined: Posts: 1
Hello! I'm new to posting to this forum, but I've been lurking for a while.

What I've been looking for is a discussion on low execution characters, for newbies trying to gte into fighting games.

Usually people say to pick cover characters (Like Ryu in Street Fighter, Kyo/Iori for KOF, etc), but more goes into a character than popularity (obviously).

My question is: does execution come into play when creating tier lists? If two characters both have the same exact vitality, the similar range and speed on normals, similar damage output, but one had combos and moves that are significantly easier to pull off than the other, does the easier to use character get bumped up?

What I ultimately want to do is start an execution tier list on the UMvC3 boards where the top of the list has the easiest combos and the bottom has the most difficult to pull off. I will probably spread it to other boards as well, or other people can follow suit because I play most games but UMvC3 is my main game.

Comments

  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭✭
    Hello! I'm new to posting to this forum, but I've been lurking for a while.

    What I've been looking for is a discussion on low execution characters, for newbies trying to gte into fighting games.

    Usually people say to pick cover characters (Like Ryu in Street Fighter, Kyo/Iori for KOF, etc), but more goes into a character than popularity (obviously).

    My question is: does execution come into play when creating tier lists? If two characters both have the same exact vitality, the similar range and speed on normals, similar damage output, but one had combos and moves that are significantly easier to pull off than the other, does the easier to use character get bumped up?

    What I ultimately want to do is start an execution tier list on the UMvC3 boards where the top of the list has the easiest combos and the bottom has the most difficult to pull off. I will probably spread it to other boards as well, or other people can follow suit because I play most games but UMvC3 is my main game.

    People say to pick Ryu not because he's popular, but because he's extremely well-designed and balanced character with no glaring weaknesses or strengths. He's the perfect training character to pick up on learning the fundamental skills necessary to do well in a fighting game.

    Popularity has nothing to do with tier lists. Although more popular characters usually have a more thoroughly developed meta-game due to widespread use, and therefore a more accurate representation of their ability, popularity does not directly into tier lists.

    Tier lists are created with the assumption that it deals only with the meta-game (top level play), and compares two players of similar skill. This usually means that both players have strong execution ability with their characters, and that they're able to hit their bnb combos with consistency. So there's no foot note for characters who require significantly more advanced execution techniques in order to play at a competitive level. We just base the tier list based on their ability to handle matchups.

    As far as making a tier list comparing ease of execution, it adds some more subjectivity into an already subjective consensus of character strength. Not all people are able to do the same motions as others. Some are good at knowing when they have charge, some are good at complex left-hand motions, some are good at doing uppercuts consistently, some are good at smooth circle and half circle motions, rhythmic combos, others are good at combos with staccato rhythm, multiple button inputs, single button inputs, 1-frame links, cancels, etc etc etc.

    tl;dr what is easy to execute for one person, may be near impossible for another person. We all have strengths and weaknesses in our ability to execute, so there's more room for deviation in your tier list from person to person.
  • BlackShinobiBlackShinobi Making moves Joined: Posts: 2,266 ✭✭✭
    No, execution is not factored into tier lists because tier list are done presumption that both characters being played at an highest level. Therefore people who can't execute and dropped combos are not factored in when tiers are created. I did another post on this I'll see if I can find it.
    https://www.facebook.com/ShinobeFGC
    http://shinob-e.smugmug.com/Tournaments
    New player gameplay video critique thread. CLICK THE LINK AND CHECK IT OUT.
    Help the community grow one beginner at time.
  • KratosKratos Joined: Posts: 144
    tier list doesn't matter much so don't take too much time focusing in it and just learn your characters matchups and BNB etc....
    PSN: Bazinga311
    AE: Seth/Cammy/Gouken(Rose)
    UMVC3: Nova/Spencer/Dr. Doom
    Nova/Frankwest/Dormammu
    Dormammu/ Dr. Doom / Wesker
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭✭
    tier list doesn't matter much so don't take too much time focusing in it and just learn your characters matchups and BNB etc....

    While you are correct, you're kind of missing the main point in his post.

    He's trying to create a tier list detailing which characters are easy or hard to execute basic combos with. This is probably beneficial to some players, since they'll want to match their execution ability with a character that will reward them for combo optimization. The issue is that there's too much variance in what one considers easy and hard.
  • BlackShinobiBlackShinobi Making moves Joined: Posts: 2,266 ✭✭✭
    Just to clarify tiering the executions of characters and factoring execution into a tier list are two different things
    Every fighting game has characters with higher or lower executional requirements so just listing those in order from easiest to hardest isn't that big of a deal or hard to do, but just to repeat on a regular tier list execution does not come into play.

    Here is the other thread
    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/to-be-good-with-a-low-tier-chr-do-i-really-have-to-be-good-with-a-high-one.149875/#post-6173763
    https://www.facebook.com/ShinobeFGC
    http://shinob-e.smugmug.com/Tournaments
    New player gameplay video critique thread. CLICK THE LINK AND CHECK IT OUT.
    Help the community grow one beginner at time.
  • azprocazproc ^ loves dem Jingle Bells Joined: Posts: 2,789
    Tier lists essentially say that with the best team/player/execution as a non-factor (within reasonable limits - if it's not practical, or there's a high drop rate for said combo/situation where otherwise the character would be terribad, then sure)... how they are placed in the metagame.

    They matter very little when you're not playing competitively or just for fun - because well, you're probably not going to look into the intricacies of what makes a character said tier. Example - grappler types in 2D fighting games take off a lot of damage, and are high on tier lists generally at a game's release. They're slowly relegated to mid tier or worse most of the time because folks find ways around their pressure and generally figure out how to keep them out. More technical characters may take longer to be accepted because folks think that the execution required is too much effort... and even then, they still will be high-mid because of this.

    Whatever you do, don't make the threads you were thinking of making. It won't help anyone, and you'll get flamed. Especially in the UMVC3 boards - it's been discussed in the tier thread sticky more times than dead horses could be beat. Thank you
    //advice.
    Sometimes I open SRK and am forced to say: notto disu shitto agen
    I actually don't play Marvel.
  • KratosKratos Joined: Posts: 144
    yea i read his post i understood his idea of tier list based on execution , i just wanted to give him an advice not to pay too much attention (if he is the type to pick his characters based on tier lists )
    PSN: Bazinga311
    AE: Seth/Cammy/Gouken(Rose)
    UMVC3: Nova/Spencer/Dr. Doom
    Nova/Frankwest/Dormammu
    Dormammu/ Dr. Doom / Wesker
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