Keep getting outzoned with Guile

BigOlePappyBigOlePappy Joined: Posts: 304
By a lot of chars. I lost a projectile war to Ken for crying out loud. I thought Guile wAs supposed to have a projectile game so good that it forced opponents to have to come in and get hit by his defensive gAme.

Yet I'm finding his booms lose to any shoot projectile game, he doesn't build meter as fast as alot of the cast.

I'm having to rush Gouken down and Guiles rush down is awfula.
MVC1: Strider/Gambit
MVC3: C.Viper/Mag/Morrigan
UMVC3: C.Viper/Doom/Strider
XvsSF: Gambit/Charlie
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭✭
    By a lot of chars. I lost a projectile war to Ken for crying out loud. I thought Guile wAs supposed to have a projectile game so good that it forced opponents to have to come in and get hit by his defensive gAme.

    Yet I'm finding his booms lose to any shoot projectile game, he doesn't build meter as fast as alot of the cast.

    I'm having to rush Gouken down and Guiles rush down is awfula.

    Ken's fireball is faster than Guile's, so yes, if you spam sonic boom, you're eventually going to lose. The real strength of Guile is that his sonic booms has fast startup, and fast recovery, at the expense of not being able to fire them off one after another, since you have to charge. Zoning the other character is about closing the gap, punishing bad fireballs by Ken with either a jump attack (risky), or a ground poke. If you're close enough, you can often trade, or even beat him clean, with a backfist, cr.forward, step kick, or hop kick.

    Gouken's a bit of a weirdo. It's a strange match due to Gouken's ability to throw fireballs at a variety of angles, as well as the fact that his fireballs are fairly quick as well. You have to learn to be able to attack him in a safe fashion in order to gain a life lead ,and maintain that life lead, which forces Gouken to come to you.
  • BigOlePappyBigOlePappy Joined: Posts: 304
    What about the shotos with the fire/magma ball with increased durability?
    MVC1: Strider/Gambit
    MVC3: C.Viper/Mag/Morrigan
    UMVC3: C.Viper/Doom/Strider
    XvsSF: Gambit/Charlie
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭✭
    What about the shotos with the fire/magma ball with increased durability?

    Neutral jump over them. Neutral jump is generally a very safe and reliable tool for avoiding getting hit with the fireball, taking chip, and getting pushed out of your zone. Also, a character cannot have more than one fireball move on screen at a time (if a character shoots multiple fireballs for one motion, they can't do another until it disappears). So if Ryu throws a slow fireball, and you neutral jump over it, he cannot throw another fireball until his first one leaves the screen or is blocked or hits you.
  • iLoVBoomsiLoVBooms Plasma Chucker Joined: Posts: 59
    By a lot of chars. I lost a projectile war to Ken for crying out loud. I thought Guile wAs supposed to have a projectile game so good that it forced opponents to have to come in and get hit by his defensive gAme.

    Yet I'm finding his booms lose to any shoot projectile game, he doesn't build meter as fast as alot of the cast.

    I'm having to rush Gouken down and Guiles rush down is awfula.

    For the Ken fireball war you need to utilize the backfist. Stand at the range where you can cancel his fireball with your sonic boom and backfist his recovery. When I play this matchup I barely get any damage from the sb I get all my damage from hitting him with normals/aa. Eventually the Ken will get annoyed and start either jumping or throwing predictably EX fireballs. If they jump smack them out of the air. If they are getting predictable jump in from the about the same range you want to stand at to backfist and get a big combo. This is a general gameplan for any other shotos as well (except for sagat) but Ryu and Akuma both are weak to this as well. As another sidenote you do need to watch out for Akuma/Oni's (and maybe E Ryu has one) for their multi hit fireball. It will stuff any of yours but is very easy to jump to gain positioning away from the corner or to punish.

    Gouken is a much harder matchup. I feel like this is one of Guiles hardest (I could be completely wrong though haha) The only luck I have had beating Gouken is slowly pushing him into the corner and locking him down (watch out for EX parry.) I try to not just play the fireball game and zone completely or rushdown 100% I try to push him where I want to do with the fireball war. It is without question a hard match. Maybe some others can enlighten this matchup more than I can...

    Hope this helps some. Sorry for any spelling/grammar errors as well as any errors in information. If Im mistaken in some of my info please do tell haha.
    Remy is top tier!
    Guile who?
  • BigOlePappyBigOlePappy Joined: Posts: 304
    Thanks for all the help above!

    I was told in footsies basically to almost never ever jump. So I was reluctant to do so in zoning. Against Gouken jumping eats hadoukens anyways.

    What about Sim and Abel zoning tips?
    MVC1: Strider/Gambit
    MVC3: C.Viper/Mag/Morrigan
    UMVC3: C.Viper/Doom/Strider
    XvsSF: Gambit/Charlie
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • Trouble BrewingTrouble Brewing Salty about Ultra Joined: Posts: 4,529 mod
    Check the guile section if you haven't already for matchup advice.
    The artist formerly known as Starcade RIP
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for all the help above!

    I was told in footsies basically to almost never ever jump. So I was reluctant to do so in zoning. Against Gouken jumping eats hadoukens anyways.

    What about Sim and Abel zoning tips?

    While 'never jumping' is normally very good advice, there are times and situations that call for it. The reason why they tell this to most new players, is that new players want to jump ALL the time, because they think that this is the best way to attack in Street Fighter. Once you start to slow down and think about the strategy of fighting games, you soon realize what a risky move jumping forward actually is.

    But neutral jumping and jumping back are perfectly fine. Jumping back is a great way to give yourself a bit of space and sort of reset the zoning match again, and neutral jumping is an effective way to avoid fireballs and even counter jump attacks.

    Sim is pretty difficult to zone, since Sim is the zoning master. You'll want to reach that space where you'll able to jump in reaction to Sim's fireball and punish him, but this is easier said than done. You need to use a variety of methods to get in, including neutral jumps, smart jumps forward, hop kicks, step kicks, and maintaining a fast-paced sonic boom frequency. Sim will outpoke you, but you do have a few normals to counter it, such as all of the hop kicks, step kicks, cr.strong, st.short, but they're not extremely reliable, and really only useful in a handful of rare situations. Most of which you have to guess in order to do. When sim's knocked down, rush that shit down and don't let up unless he gets away, then start the process over again.

    Abel's pretty easy to zone for the most part. He has no effective low attacks, and Guile's pokes are much better. The only exception is Abel's st.forward, which is extremely good for closing the gap and poking mid with, but Guile should be able to keep him at this range pretty easily. The wheel kick isn't really a threat, since it still pushes him away a decent distance. If he's being predictable with it, and doing it at max range, you can punish with neutral jump attacks, air throws if you're feeling ballsy, but it's not really necessary. Be aware of when he has Ultra1, since he'll be fishing to use that to go through your sonic boom.

    Also, you'll find better and more accurate advice in the Guile section, instead of here. The information is out there. You just have to search for it.
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