List of cross ups

MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double posterJoined: Posts: 4,838
How about instead of searching for a gimmick, we make a list of cross ups and which way to block? Wouldn't this be more handy, especially if the "magic" block is proven false, as it looks like it's bunked? If everyone contributes we can get a good list going for future references. I'll start with 2 that I know for sure, since I can't really remember the rest. I'll update the original post as more posts are added. Oh, and I'll adjust the format if there are character specific cross ups. Also worth noting that yes, stuff is spacing dependent so having that knowledge before hand is pretty important, but it's still good to know which moves will cross up and which wont, and if there are characters you can't cross up with moves that cross up against most of the cast.

Character: DeeJay
Attack: Jumping medium kick
Block: Forward
Character: Dictator
Attack: Jumping medium kick
Block: Back
Disclaimer: I work for Paradise Arcade Shop. My posts are probably biased. Take that into consideration. Bye!

Comments

  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    Zangief can change the xup by instead of crossing with splash, uses jumping mk or jumping lk, its very ambiguous, since these 2 jumping kicks sometimes cross the oponent up, n sometimes hits u normally, keep in mind the xup window is very limited
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,838
    Yes, but what would be the proper way to block against Zangief splash, jumping mk, or jumping lk? Sure the set up may be ambiguous, but at least knowing the options we can guess better.

    Edit: Oh wait, I think I get what you mean. Like, make it look like a cross up setup, and then instead of crossing up, hitting with mk or lk. Ok, that's good, but still need to know which way to block the splash, I take it forward? Since you'd end up walking into mk or lk at that point if you mixed it up.
    Disclaimer: I work for Paradise Arcade Shop. My posts are probably biased. Take that into consideration. Bye!
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    this vid shows most of Dictators tricks:
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    It's nearly impossible to correctly block Deejay's j.forward on reaction, since they will both cross-up or won't depending on the spacing and timing.

    For the most part, Dictator's j.mk will attack on you on the front-side but land behind you, but it can cross-up depending on spacing, timing, and the character he's playing against. This seems to be extremely difficult, so if you're playing off of probability, it will hit you in the front, but it can go either in the hands of talented Dic players.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Dee Jay can cross-up with RH, too.

    Ryu's best aerial cross-up is d.RH. He can also cross-up with d.Fwd (OK), d.Short (OK), d.Fierce (hard), n.Short (when the enemy falls in your directon, at the corner), n.Fwd (same as before).

    Dictator can cross-up with Short, too, IIRC. At least O.Dictator can.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    Dee Jay can cross-up with RH, too.

    Ryu's best aerial cross-up is d.RH. He can also cross-up with d.Fwd (OK), d.Short (OK), d.Fierce (hard), n.Short (when the enemy falls in your directon, at the corner), n.Fwd (same as before).

    Dictator can cross-up with Short, too, IIRC. At least O.Dictator can.

    I've never seen a Deejay cross-up with RH, mostly because the j.forward version is so much more ambiguous and deadlier.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I've never seen a Deejay cross-up with RH, mostly because the j.forward version is so much more ambiguous and deadlier.
    The CPU uses it from time to time. Dee Jay players often use it against a few characters such as Gief. For instance, see Okafei-Seki-D vs Gunze-ARG-Oto.
  • SpidercarnageSpidercarnage Joined: Posts: 91
    As oldschool_BR mentioned Deejay can cross-up with RH, but its character specific. I have seen Hazi use it most effectively on Geif, Hawk, Boxer and Guile. Also I believe that Deejays jump jab can cross-up on a few characters in the corner. By that I mean if the opponent is in the corner and Deejay jumps in with a jump jab, the hit crosses-up and Deejay lands in front of the character. I need to test this more and hopefully someone can confirm or set me straight. I swear I have seen this happen on Ryu a few times. Finally Deejays jumping short can also cross-up.
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    Kens main crossup is j.mk, I don't know if it can be made ambiguous.

    O.fei's primary crossup is j.hk.
    N.fei's is j.mk

    I know that if either fei long crosses up into the corner, he can hit deejay with j.hp, I haven't bothered since the one time it happened so I don't know who else that works on. I never tried that away from the corner either.

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    > Kens main crossup is j.mk, I don't know if it can be made ambiguous.
    I was under the impression that all crossup moves could be made ambiguous.
    Ken_djfrwrd4.png

    Moves that hit to the left of the reference pip are good cross-ups. A character like Boxer who doesn't have moves that go to the left of the pip has more limited cross-ups.

    For the N characters... I think the choices are:
    Ryu hk and tatsu
    Ken mk and tatsu,
    Guile's is lk
    Gief's is splash.
    Honda hk, lk, and splash).
    T Hawk can cross up with splash and mk.
    Cammy can cross up with lk.
    Chun can cross-up with mk and pogo.
    Sagat's with mk...
    Blanka's is lk.
    Boxer doesn't have good cross-ups. Jumping HK/HP may work.
    Claw has wall dive.
    Dictator crosses up with mk and hk.
    Chun Li with mk and pogo
    Dhalsim, mk and hk drill,
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    Perhaps, but making some ambiguous may be more difficult.

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,838
    The thing about ambiguous cross ups is that IMO they're pretty rare. Most of the set ups you can tell what the player is going for, for example DeeJay, because of the distance between you and the opponent required for it and the attack used. Especially short jump characters like Guile or DeeJay, you know they're going for the cross up. Same with Ken's j.mk, you know what's going to happen there so you block.

    One thing though, I had no idea that the foot does not hit on Ken's j.mk, no wonder that was never successful. Thank you, Rufus.
    Disclaimer: I work for Paradise Arcade Shop. My posts are probably biased. Take that into consideration. Bye!
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    The thing about ambiguous cross ups is that IMO they're pretty rare. Most of the set ups you can tell what the player is going for, for example DeeJay, because of the distance between you and the opponent required for it and the attack used. Especially short jump characters like Guile or DeeJay, you know they're going for the cross up. Same with Ken's j.mk, you know what's going to happen there so you block.

    One thing though, I had no idea that the foot does not hit on Ken's j.mk, no wonder that was never successful. Thank you, Rufus.

    With all due respect moonchild, you have no idea what your talking about.

    Don't focus too much on the jump arc. With the same spacing, some cross ups hit in the front if you push the button early, but also hit in the back if the button is pressed late. The direction of the hit is completely under control of the attacker. Perfect example is Afro's matches against Damdai during their vegas money match. The threat of the ambiguous cross up was so great that damdai just went to wake up tatsu's to take the hit rather then try to guess which way to block and risk a quick TOD.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    One thing though, I had no idea that the foot does not hit on Ken's j.mk, no wonder that was never successful. Thank you, Rufus.
    It does. You can check both attack parts on the Wiki or at Papasi's hitbox website.
    With the same spacing, some cross ups hit in the front if you push the button early, but also hit in the back if the button is pressed late.
    This. The CPU will almost always force you to block as a non-cross-up, attacking from as high as possible while still being able to combo, while average players will usually force you to switch. However, good players can time it as a non-cross-up. They can also position themselves in such a way that they which sides as they land or not just by varying the time they jump in.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    The thing about ambiguous cross ups is that IMO they're pretty rare. Most of the set ups you can tell what the player is going for, for example DeeJay, because of the distance between you and the opponent required for it and the attack used. Especially short jump characters like Guile or DeeJay, you know they're going for the cross up. Same with Ken's j.mk, you know what's going to happen there so you block.

    One thing though, I had no idea that the foot does not hit on Ken's j.mk, no wonder that was never successful. Thank you, Rufus.

    This is pretty wrong. Both Deejay and Guile's are pretty difficult to block in the hands of an expert player. Speaking from personal experience, Afro will jump at the exact same spacing every single time, and whether or not its ambiguous depends on when he times his j.mk. And this is not rare, this is an every-match occurence if he's able to land the hard knockdown. Same deal with Guile's cross-up, which is extremely ambiguous despite not really controlling the timing of the lk, but rather the timing of the jump.

    Ken's j.mk is also very ambiguous if properly done. Ryu's cross-up HK isn't ambiguous in the same way afaik. I can control whether it lands in the front and hits (extremely unsafe), or whether it attacks from behind, but I can't get to where I can attack in such a way that they have to block the front, but I still land on the cross-up side like other better x-up attacks.
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    The thing about ambiguous cross ups is that IMO they're pretty rare. Most of the set ups you can tell what the player is going for...

    edit: Was late to the party - I'm just echoing the same sentiments are everyone else.
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    moon, ken's j.mk starts at the bent leg, and then disappears, and the extended leg gets a hitbox.

    How long does the first hitbox last? Papasi's website only had a full hitbox frame count from I looked at.
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    You guys need to check the wiki morefrequently, we dont waste our time on it for nothing.
    The crossup part stays for 5 frames, after that, the "extented leg hitbox" part stays for more 8 frames, for a total of 13 hitting frames.
    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Ken_(ST)#Aerial_normals

    BTW Old and New Blanka can crossup with Strong, but its very hard to space.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    > Kens main crossup is j.mk, I don't know if it can be made ambiguous.
    I was under the impression that all crossup moves could be made ambiguous.
    Ken_djfrwrd4.png

    Moves that hit to the left of the reference pip are good cross-ups. A character like Boxer who doesn't have moves that go to the left of the pip has more limited cross-ups.

    For the N characters... I think the choices are:
    Ryu hk and tatsu
    Ken mk and tatsu,
    Guile's is lk
    Gief's is splash.
    Honda hk, lk, and splash).
    T Hawk can cross up with splash and mk.
    Cammy can cross up with lk.
    Chun can cross-up with mk and pogo.
    Sagat's with mk...
    Blanka's is lk.
    Boxer doesn't have good cross-ups. Jumping HK/HP may work.
    Claw has wall dive.
    Dictator crosses up with mk and hk.
    Chun Li with mk and pogo
    Dhalsim, mk and hk drill,
    Chun Li also can cross up with diagonal jumping jab, gief can also cross up with jumping mk/lk
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    You guys need to check the wiki morefrequently, we dont waste our time on it for nothing.
    The crossup part stays for 5 frames, after that, the "extented leg hitbox" part stays for more 8 frames, for a total of 13 hitting frames.
    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Ken_(ST)#Aerial_normals

    BTW Old and New Blanka can crossup with Strong, but its very hard to space.

    Then people shouldn't reference incorrect resources. I found papasi's faster.

    I know guile's can feel ambiguous, but who else aside from dj/bison/claw can really make it hard to see?
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    I've accidentally crossed up with hawks jumping jab. It's fucking impossible to tell. I'm pretty sure it only works on the fat characters though.

    PS
    I'm pretty sure it only works on the fat characters though.
    This means I have no idea at all. Someone should really test this.
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    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    I've randomly crossed up Hawk with O.Guile on occasion. It's happened a few times against Papercut. I think it was with j.fierce and j.short and only works on the fatties.
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    Chun Li also can cross up with diagonal jumping jab, gief can also cross up with jumping mk/lk
    Neck breaker should have probably been on my list, but, just like Boxer's HP/HK, I expect those to be more situational.
    There are also special moves with cross-up potential - Torpedo, Psycho Crusher, Blanka Ball
    I know guile's can feel ambiguous, but who else aside from dj/bison/claw can really make it hard to see
    I think it's a question of timing and spacing, so I'd expect that the entire cast can make that happen.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
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