My most wanted change for AE2013

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  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I get tired of facing cammies and akumas, who don't know what they're doing. Losers with self esteem issues that are just picking those characters cause of how powerful they are. It is enjoyable to beat them down though.
    I love beating people like that.just punishing people for picking the easy route is so rewarding
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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    Ae2012-Yun/Yang/Seth/Ryu/Cody/Dudley
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  • chubbyfingerzchubbyfingerz Kore ga Saikyo-ryu da! Joined: Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭
    Especially if you play Dan, like me. Every time I knock an Akuma down I taunt. Then I taunt again.

    If you're not going to taunt, why play Dan? It's like being a priest and not molesting children: it's not about the job description but the added bonuses!
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  • Axl_m4sterAxl_m4ster This is how I look like, don't make fun Joined: Posts: 2,423
    ever notice how many characters dive kick in this game?
    lets count shall we?
    lets see there's yun, yang, rufus, seth, akuma, gouken, juri, adon, gen and evil ryu.
    i cant remember if oni can dive kick or not.
    viper has a dive kick ultra.

    wow. at least 10 characters dive kick their way to glory.

    my most wanted change for AE 13?
    less dive kicking.


    AE=DiveKick The Game
    LOGIC AND REASON ARE OVERRATED VIRTUES.
  • Axl_m4sterAxl_m4ster This is how I look like, don't make fun Joined: Posts: 2,423
    True, I love KoF and I think KoF 98 is tied with SSF4AE12 as the best fighting game of all time. I'm just nitpicking your statement... I was 6 when SF2 came out. It blew my mind. It blew everyone's mind. I was in Brazil, far far from Japan and the US and it was all we played. I saved money to play at the arcade and inevitably died on the 2nd guy or so. I knew all their bios. At 9 I watched the Van Damme movie in the cinemas. I watched the cartoon series (both of them) and the animated film. Ryu and Ken were household names. Kids did hadokens at the playground.

    You had to be there, when the little plane flew to "USS-arrrrrr", or when someone finished the game and kids would pile up to see the ending. I cried when Blanka found his mom. I thought Guile was awesome for not killing Bison. I cared about it. Everyone did. And the music! Unparalleled to this day in a fighting game. Iconic. And the sound effects? Hadooooken! That booming shout, so vigorous, Shoooryuken!

    You had to be there.

    Street Fighter 2 is one of the best, most influential games of all time. It is the holy grail. Being like it is being good, nay, great.

    Which isn't to say that being unlike it is bad.

    SF4 feels like Street Fighter 2. Street Fighter 3 disappointed me deeply. I played it a few times then dropped it, disgusted. It didn't feel like the game I grew up with.

    Then SF4 came. You know what it's like for a disc to be in a videogame for 2 years in a row without being removed? Thats SF4 at my house. That's all that is played at my house. It felt like SF2. It felt glorious. It was like going home. Still does.

    We don't expect all games to be like SF2. Just Street Fighter games. Take us home, Capcom. Back to 1991. At least that's all I want.
    the only reason i don't give your post a LIKE is coz you said "SF4 feels like Street Fighter 2."
    which is just plain blasphemy.
    LOGIC AND REASON ARE OVERRATED VIRTUES.
  • chubbyfingerzchubbyfingerz Kore ga Saikyo-ryu da! Joined: Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭
    Dive kicking is a bitch. And so safe!
    PSN: SaikyoForever

    Test yourself against Saikyo!

  • DrGulagDrGulag Joined: Posts: 199
    Maybe this has been mentioned but :

    I'd like the DPs to be more powerful as anti-airs. I don't even know how that would work but it's pretty lame that you can beat them straight in certain situations with air moves. Like M.Bison just going through Fei Longs flame kick with jumping hard punch.

    If you made the opponent jump then you should be able to punish him/her cleanly. No stupid trades with Cammy's air specials, no beating DP with air normals, no nothing. Sure, you wouldn't be able to trade into ultra with Sagat if this happened but then you could just give dragon punches etc more damage when they hit an opponent in the air.

    Probably no way to implement this idea, hopefully Capcom does it in their next SF game.

    ps. Oh and tone down vortex options, buff walk speed and make the game more like SF2 but that's just a minor thing.:) I'd also give Claw a better overhead so he could combo from it on hit.
  • KomatikKomatik Card demon Joined: Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭✭
    There is. Give DPs actual priority. Most shoto DPs have basically none after they leave the ground, for example. Hilariously, Cammy's DP has tons. Big surprise there : /
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  • cerberusfxcerberusfx Timekeeper Joined: Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭
    ever notice how many characters dive kick in this game?
    lets count shall we?
    lets see there's yun, yang, rufus, seth, akuma, gouken, juri, adon, gen and evil ryu.
    i cant remember if oni can dive kick or not.
    viper has a dive kick ultra.

    wow. at least 10 characters dive kick their way to glory.

    my most wanted change for AE 13?
    less dive kicking.


    AE=DiveKick The Game

    you are honestly putting the dive kicks on the same level without thinking how each character has to use them, really ? comparing viper's most unused ultra to yun and rufus dive kick ?

    Thank god you didn't mention Cammy had a dive kick.
    Power is nothing without skill
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  • chubbyfingerzchubbyfingerz Kore ga Saikyo-ryu da! Joined: Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭
    Cammy has a dive kick?
    PSN: SaikyoForever

    Test yourself against Saikyo!

  • sorrowsticksorrowstick Joined: Posts: 253
    It does get boring but to out right refuse. Seems that you dont like losing. Get your game up.
    no ...... its not about losing , its all about to color your day by fighting online. but how do you do that if the online fighting community was already so dull and monotonous with same character?

    Tell me, why I didn't mind losing to rare character like viper, twins, dan, elf, hakan and THawk?
    trollfighting, guessing game, random mash & taunting are legit...offline or online.
  • CobraKaiCobraKai Joined: Posts: 516 ✭✭
  • sorrowsticksorrowstick Joined: Posts: 253
    ^ Cos they're easy to beat ? ;)
    No coz they are rare.....hard to come by.
    Those character are like unique artifacts in RPG Games.

    Consider your self lucky if you met them online....regardless if you gonna win or lose.
    trollfighting, guessing game, random mash & taunting are legit...offline or online.
  • hagenNORKANOIAhagenNORKANOIA Joined: Posts: 644
    ever notice how many characters dive kick in this game?
    lets count shall we?
    lets see there's yun, yang, rufus, seth, akuma, gouken, juri, adon, gen and evil ryu.

    you missed the first SF divekick character ever:
    DHALSIM

    Shame on you!

    Where is cammy? And i wouldnt count in gen
  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cant wait for those Cammy nerfs :D
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

    3s-Yang/Urien/Dudley
    Ae2012-Yun/Yang/Seth/Ryu/Cody/Dudley
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  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Sonic Boom! Joined: Posts: 1,813 ✭✭
    no ...... its not about losing , its all about to color your day by fighting online. but how do you do that if the online fighting community was already so dull and monotonous with same character?

    Tell me, why I didn't mind losing to rare character like viper, twins, dan, elf, hakan and THawk?

    All I see is excuses. I get bored of the seas of Ryu's I match too. You know what I do? Go really hard at them so they can leave or pick another character. Get your game up.
    Supercade, XBL and GGPO tags: Projectjustice
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭
    rare character like twins
    Even Post-AE this isn't true for Yun
    Why.
  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭✭
    Wow the amount of salt in this thread, jeez man if you're THAT butthurt about the game from dive kicks, vortexes, game mechanics..etc, you should seriously do yourself a favor and stop playing it, I know there's no way in hell I'd play a game if I didn't actually enjoy it.

    If you don't even play the game and just like to complain about it, well then you're even worse lol, what a waste of time & space.

    SF4 brought back the fighting game genre for a reason, it's a Good game, it doesn't matter what some salty scrubs think so.
    "Blanka is scrub." - Tokido
  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sad part is capcom listens more to the scrubs :(
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

    3s-Yang/Urien/Dudley
    Ae2012-Yun/Yang/Seth/Ryu/Cody/Dudley
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • SuperstarSuperstar Joined: Posts: 198
    Sad part is capcom listens more to the scrubs :(

    lol...
  • sorrowsticksorrowstick Joined: Posts: 253
    Sad part is capcom listens more to the scrubs :(

    Like what? Proof please?
    All I see is excuses. I get bored of the seas of Ryu's I match too. You know what I do? Go really hard at them so they can leave or pick another character. Get your game up.

    Sorry I dont have that much patient to force them to change another character.
    Besides, tell me how do you improve yourself if you had to face against same character 24/7?

    I found lots of people whinning when dealing against El Fuerte due to so many illogical excuses. I think these people's gameplay and their own muscle memory had already fully adapted dealing against only typical shoto like Ryu. Without / lesser experience when fighting against some mix up character, you might get clueless and got owned literally. As for me....i still have no idea how to deal with honda's headbutt spam and ibuki's cross u kunai (unless if i pick people-most-hated character, cammy)
    trollfighting, guessing game, random mash & taunting are legit...offline or online.
  • M.D.M.D. digs older chicks Joined: Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭
    How do you get bored fighting Ryu? He's not that good in AE2012 and there are far more annoying characters to deal with.
    "I'm deeeeeaaaadd!" - Williams
    UMVC3: Shehulk/Haggar/Thor
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  • C3TNC3TN Joined: Posts: 52
    How do you get bored fighting Ryu? He's not that good in AE2012 and there are far more annoying characters to deal with.
    What do you mean he's not that good? Ryu is extremely solid with very few bad match-ups.
  • sorrowsticksorrowstick Joined: Posts: 253
    How do you get bored fighting Ryu? He's not that good in AE2012 and there are far more annoying characters to deal with.

    Sounds your enjoyment are based on beating others to pulp. Its not about winning or beating someone. But to earn experience sparring against all character throughout this game. I guess dats how you improve your character eh?


    You found there were more annoying character? Good......how about learn to deal with em'.
    From your avatar i guess your main character whether zangief or cody. those are cool to play and to spar against with.
    trollfighting, guessing game, random mash & taunting are legit...offline or online.
  • Axl_m4sterAxl_m4ster This is how I look like, don't make fun Joined: Posts: 2,423
    ever notice how many characters dive kick in this game?
    lets count shall we?
    lets see there's CAMMY, DHALSIM, yun, yang, rufus, seth, akuma, gouken, juri, adon, gen and evil ryu.
    i cant remember if oni can dive kick or not.
    viper has a dive kick ultra.
    fixed
    that makes 12
    LOGIC AND REASON ARE OVERRATED VIRTUES.
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭
    Yep cus Dhalsim, Seth, Rufus, Juri, .. Divekicks are one and the same

    ♠♠♠

    ever notice how many characters fire ball in this game?
    lets count shall we?
    lets see there's gouki, chun, cody, dan, dj, dhalsim, evil ryu, gouken, guile, juri, ken, oni, rose, ryu, sagat, sakura and seth
    i dont know if you want to count yun, yang, ibuki as being able to fire ball or not.

    wow. at least 17 characters fire ball their way to glory.

    my most wanted change for AE 13?
    less fire balling.


    AE=FireBall The Game
    Why.
  • cerberusfxcerberusfx Timekeeper Joined: Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭
    now let's count all characters with a DP motion !
    Power is nothing without skill
    R.I.P Joshua Colon (sksksksksk222)
    **Oh god images in signatures--not approving at all >_>!**
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭
    now let's count all characters with a DP motion !
    Bah, I expected the next guy to count all chars with a Throw/Focus Attack/Taunt. :shake:
    Why.
  • chubbyfingerzchubbyfingerz Kore ga Saikyo-ryu da! Joined: Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭
    Hang on a second, this is a fallacy. One thing is for a character to have a certain skill. The other thing is for a character's playstyle to rely heavily on it. Dive kicks are a safe, powerful tool which is used and abused by every character that is capable of doing it. The same does not apply to fireballs and dragon punches.

    Dive kicks are certainly a troublesome dynamic to deal with. My biggest issue however is the following: every time a character performs a powerful move that he can not be punished for attempting, and he can do it ceaselessly, then there is a problem.

    Dive kicks are easily abused. They cross up, start massive combos ( which end in ultras), keep up a very strong pressure and are overwhelmingly safe on block and hard to counter.

    That's the problem. We have a dominant move that a character's entire offense can be built around with little to no risk. Like Akuma's demon flip pressure, Cammy/Rufus/SethYun's dive kicks....

    So yeah. They're kind of imbalanced.
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  • EternalEternal unpleasable perfectionist Joined: Posts: 8,655 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep cus Dhalsim, Seth, Rufus, Juri, .. Divekicks are one and the same

    ♠♠♠

    ever notice how many characters fire ball in this game?
    lets count shall we?
    lets see there's gouki, chun, cody, dan, dj, dhalsim, evil ryu, gouken, guile, juri, ken, oni, rose, ryu, sagat, sakura and seth
    i dont know if you want to count yun, yang, ibuki as being able to fire ball or not.

    wow. at least 17 characters fire ball their way to glory.

    my most wanted change for AE 13?
    less fire balling.


    AE=FireBall The Game
    Hang on a second, this is a fallacy. One thing is for a character to have a certain skill. The other thing is for a character's playstyle to rely heavily on it. Dive kicks are a safe, powerful tool which is used and abused by every character that is capable of doing it. The same does not apply to fireballs and dragon punches.

    Dive kicks are certainly a troublesome dynamic to deal with. My biggest issue however is the following: every time a character performs a powerful move that he can not be punished for attempting, and he can do it ceaselessly, then there is a problem.

    Dive kicks are easily abused. They cross up, start massive combos ( which end in ultras), keep up a very strong pressure and are overwhelmingly safe on block and hard to counter.

    That's the problem. We have a dominant move that a character's entire offense can be built around with little to no risk. Like Akuma's demon flip pressure, Cammy/Rufus/SethYun's dive kicks....

    So yeah. They're kind of imbalanced.

    I think that dive kicks are just as much of an important tool to the whole of street fighter as command throws, fireballs, slides, DPs, ect. However you have to consider the whole.

    How punishable are dive kicks on whiff or if poorly spaced? Most are fairly safe on block or 100% safe depending on spacing. Most only have 3-6 extra recovery frames beyond a standard jumping attack (Juri is the worst at 19F recovery on her HK version.)

    What are the options characters have to STOP the dive kick should they see it coming? There are lots of ways to handle projectiles, and when you do the opponent is (usually) grounded with 20-35F recovery on their fireball for a massive punish. Command throws, everyone can jump out of a command throw and they all have 40-60F recovery on whiff, plus many characters have either throw invincible moves or ways to become airborne without jumping.

    However for dive kicks, they often come in at an angle that some characters have trouble covering, and many characters have no invincible option to handle divekicks. A focus attack doesn't always work because most dive kicks recover faster than most characters dashes so you'll get hit out of the recovery of your dash. (Plus Juri's dive kick is an armor breaker.) dive kicks allow characters to alter their jump arc or jump time which can play hell on characters who rely on normals to anti air that may only have 2-4F of active frames and have 15+ recovery frames.

    Now without dive kicks some characters would have nearly unwinnable matchups. Unlike in SFxT Rufus' damage and combos couldn't carry him to victory in matches he already has problems with. Cammy doesn't have an overhead, and while she has strong normals, great walk speed, good damage, and a good wakeup the dive kick is the lynchpin that holds her together without it she'd fall to mid tier at best.

    Dive kicks could use a tweak but they shouldn't be tweaked so hard as to make them useless or even weak otherwise you risk destroying characters. Likewise one thing that could fix it is giving other characters better ways to handle dive kicks (better AA normals, or invincible AAs or something along those lines)
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  • Dr_WDr_W Joined: Posts: 61
    If there is a v2013, will PC users get the patch at the same time to? I got the game on Steam and I'm not sure how they do it. I thought i heard SFxT PC patch got delayed 6+ months.
  • KorbidonKorbidon For justice. Joined: Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wait a second, you can't be punished for a divekick?

    Shit, you can block in the air now.

    Street Fighter has changed.
  • EternalEternal unpleasable perfectionist Joined: Posts: 8,655 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wait a second, you can't be punished for a divekick?

    Shit, you can block in the air now.

    Street Fighter has changed.

    Most dive kicks are at worst -3 or -4F on block and that is with poor spacing. With good spacing many dive kicks are not only safe but actually + frames on block.

    Also...

    You could block in the air back in Alpha. Street fighter hasn't changed you just don't know your history!
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  • cerberusfxcerberusfx Timekeeper Joined: Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭

    That's the problem. We have a dominant move that a character's entire offense can be built around with little to no risk. Like Akuma's demon flip pressure, Cammy/Rufus/SethYun's dive kicks....

    So yeah. They're kind of imbalanced.

    Seth's dive kick cannot cross up if I remember. Also this is Seth's dive kick:
    dive_zps30a79b9f.png
    Which forces him to use it as a meaty attack since it's slow/has a terrible hurtbox. Otherwise he can easily be countered by a lot of AAs compare to Cammy's or Akuma's dive kick:
    CS_zps4497b583.pngdiveAk_zps4e37c20e.pngcs2_zps445f5ca6.png

    Yes they can start a combo but saying it ends in an ultra isn't true. It's an option (and a poor one). But they reset the spacing opponents have between them. Also the way characters use their dive kick isn't the same:
    Cammy can maintain pressure because of a lot of her normals being + on block and creates like push block. With the combination of her walkspeed + EX dive kick, she can stay close to her opponent relatively well.

    Akuma cannot vortex/use his dive kick unless the opponent is KD (otherwise it is easy to escape). Only then can he make the opponent guess what he will do next. Otherwise he has to start trying getting his KD again.

    Seth cannot use his dive kick to get into his opponents space at all. It's slow and easily AA

    Rufus's dive kick can be OSed in multiple ways but yes this is his main tool to apply pressure. I myself find this a problem but I cannot go say that this character is complete bullshit because he also has his own issues in other departments. (He does have more pros than cons tho imo but the issue here are the dive kicks)

    Yun's dive kick has a massive hurtbox all around him so it can be hard for him if he gets predictable with it

    And the problem isn't only the move itself. Overall defensive measures across the board have been nerfed which results on people that have this tool + more things that the opponent has to worry about being better than the rest of the cast.
    cs2_zps445f5ca6.png.html
    Power is nothing without skill
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  • EternalEternal unpleasable perfectionist Joined: Posts: 8,655 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Seth's dive kick cannot cross up if I remember. Also this is Seth's dive kick:

    Which forces him to use it as a meaty attack since it's slow/has a terrible hurtbox. Otherwise he can easily be countered by a lot of AAs compare to Cammy's or Akuma's dive kick:

    Actually if you take look at many of those dive kicks, (including Seth's) the hurtbox vs hitbox size and positioning is better than most characters jump ins. While also having the advantage of far more active frames than most characters jump ins.

    How often have you heard about how good the hitbox is on Cody's jumping HK? All the time, yet his hurtboxes are MASSIVE. Look at some of Rufus and Akuma's non-dive kick jump ins

    YkXmbtU.jpgrBBw4Hx.jpgbzXaE0J.jpg

    You can't claim that the hurtbox on Seth's dive kick is bad when you look at the game as a whole.
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  • cerberusfxcerberusfx Timekeeper Joined: Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭
    Actually if you take look at many of those dive kicks, (including Seth's) the hurtbox vs hitbox size and positioning is better than most characters jump ins. While also having the advantage of far more active frames than most characters jump ins.

    You can't claim that the hurtbox on Seth's dive kick is bad when you look at the game as a whole.
    The thing is that we are only talking about dive kicks. Not about jump ins. And we are comparing how each character can apply their dive kicks. The dive kick isn't a universal move that works the same way / same height restriction / same speed for everyone. All of them has to use them in a different way.

    The fact that Seth has to do his dive kick relatively high / slow / and the hitbox is completely inside the hurtbox proves that its actually way weaker than other dive kicks.
    Power is nothing without skill
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  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭✭✭
    divekicks are stupid in every game. this is a solid rule to go by. they might potentially not be stupid in Divekick though.
  • KomatikKomatik Card demon Joined: Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭✭
    Divekicks are generally horrible in Smash :P
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  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Sonic Boom! Joined: Posts: 1,813 ✭✭
    Sorry I dont have that much patient to force them to change another character.
    Besides, tell me how do you improve yourself if you had to face against same character 24/7?

    I found lots of people whinning when dealing against El Fuerte due to so many illogical excuses. I think these people's gameplay and their own muscle memory had already fully adapted dealing against only typical shoto like Ryu. Without / lesser experience when fighting against some mix up character, you might get clueless and got owned literally. As for me....i still have no idea how to deal with honda's headbutt spam and ibuki's cross u kunai (unless if i pick people-most-hated character, cammy)

    I highly doubt you have the Ryu matchup 100% down packed. I always have a endless battle room of 5 players and I get a great variety of characters on XBL. I dunno where you are playing AE on but I dont think its as bad as you make it out to be. It all sounds like you have a weakness to the matchup and you are to the point that you just dont want to deal with it.

    As for dealing with other matchups besides Ryu and failing cause you are used to fighting Ryu comment. Thats the scrubbest excuse I have ever heard. Every character plays by the same rules. Thats what so many players fail to understand. Ryu isnt exempt from this.
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  • Ryuken9Ryuken9 Joined: Posts: 504
    My highest win rate online is against Ryus and he's the most fequently used character, that's cuz 90% of Ryus are noobs. I'd quit if it wasn't for the free points but honestly you aren't going to learn anything like that.
    SSF4 AE : Seth/Ken/Sagat/Evil Ryu

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  • M.D.M.D. digs older chicks Joined: Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭
    You're not going to learn anything playing online period. No one's gonna play outside the box, perform advanced combos, or punish your unsafe stuff when there's button delay that alters during the match.

    If you haven't played decent comp outside of PSN or XBL, how can you have a basis to determine how the matchups should be played?
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  • chubbyfingerzchubbyfingerz Kore ga Saikyo-ryu da! Joined: Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭
    Bullshit pretentious generalization
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  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭✭
    You're not going to learn anything playing online period. No one's gonna play outside the box, perform advanced combos, or punish your unsafe stuff when there's button delay that alters during the match.

    If you haven't played decent comp outside of PSN or XBL, you have no basis to determine how the matchups should be play.
    That's just wrong, you can learn a shitload of stuff online, there are a lot of players who know how to play the game from footsies to advanced combos. It's the person's fault if he decides to play in laggy matches or he simply has a bad internet connection, I try to never play in any game that's not green.

    If you're getting sub 30ms pings (or preferably less than 20ms) vs your opponent, online is VERY viable.

    This whole "Online doesn't mean shit" attitude around SRK is hilarious, not everyone experiences the same amount of lag that you do.
    "Blanka is scrub." - Tokido
  • The BreakerThe Breaker reading, lol Joined: Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭
    Seth's dive kick doesn't work like other dive kicks. From the perspective of a Seth player, this is both good and bad.

    For starters, Seth's dive kick has to be blocked high. Cammy, Evil Ryu, Gouken, Gouki (off a flip), Rufus, Yang, and Yun can all be blocked when you're crouching. Any other dive kick generally isn't nearly as useful (Juri's is relatively unsafe and not very useful without meter anyway, Dhalsim is pretty obvious.) Many dive kicks have additional frames of recovery compared to other aerial attacks, Seth's does not. Seth's dive kick also gains as much meter as your typical hard attack (60) while doing 60 damage and 100 stun. The hit and block stun is much lower than most dive kicks, and when Seth does it does not matter as much as other characters. This is good and bad: Seth is often very safe on a blocked dive kick (iirc usually anywhere from -2 to +3), but he's usually at a very small disadvantage if the move hits high while generally getting the same options on any dive kick that hits lower than the chest. The other good and bad thing is the hit box. The move cannot cross up normally. You need very specific set ups and these are often unsafe as well as easy to spot. It's also easily stuffed by most grounded attacks (Dee Jay and Chun have a lot of trouble though.) The way the hurt box and hit box are lined up though makes it very good on knockdowns. With j.HK, the move makes it very difficult to autocorrect Seth when he goes for mix ups, it's hard to block when it looks like Seth is going for j.HK (fake cross up), he can delay it to really fuck with some characters (ie Chun), it avoids a lot because of the slim hurt box, etc. etc.

    But the move does have trade offs. Compared to other characters that use their dive kick to get in, Seth's height restriction is fairly high. He cannot do the move when jumping back or when in neutral - he has to be going forward*. It has a pretty high start up for a dive kick (12f?) and it descends pretty slow compared to others - as well as having only one speed. Getting counter hit out of a dive kick with 800 health never feels too great either.

    Basically, yeah, I agree with cerberus. It's pretty tame for a dive kick, but it compliments Seth very well (gets him in range to play the ground game, works nicely with his mix ups, forces your opponent to really know their AA game, gives him resets, makes Dee Jay/Chun-Li depressed.)

    *Seth can do a dive kick after any head stomp because Seth loses his neutral jump normals for some reason, but this use is very limited because the head stomp has to be blocked or hit.
    Spoiler:
    "This game is garbage." Why do you play it?
    "Because the other garbage is cold." So you just like garbage.
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭
    Any other dive kick generally isn't nearly as useful (Juri's is relatively unsafe and not very useful without meter anyway)]
    What does Juri's Divekick have to do with meter? Also, it's extremely useful, it just has other uses.
    It makes throwing fireballs from less than fullscreen for most chars impossible, it allows fuzzy breaks, and it's an armor breaker.
    Yeah it's worse at doing continuous pressure than Rufus' and it's not gifted with a complete retard mode like Ex CS, but it got other pluses.
    Oh, I can pick random images to make it look like jump-ins are too good too.
    <pics>
    Clear lack of Sakura j.Fierce
    P.S. Imo jump-ins *are* too good
    Why.
  • AmigoOneAmigoOne Joined: Posts: 1,155
    It's actually pretty fuckin hard to whiff punish online. I feel like I can count the numbers of matches I was able to consistently whiff punish the easy shit, and only with great foosties chars.
  • The BreakerThe Breaker reading, lol Joined: Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭
    whiff punishing online in general is hard
    What does Juri's Divekick have to do with meter?
    EX -> U2
    (never see anybody bother with this) U1 -> different angles
    I don't really think Juri's DK is that good at outright preventing fireballs, although it does force a lot of characters to think before throwing them.
    Forgot about armor breaking and fuzzy though.

    I still don't think it's nearly as good as the others I listed. Well, it's way better than Dhalsims.
    "This game is garbage." Why do you play it?
    "Because the other garbage is cold." So you just like garbage.
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭
    EX -> U2
    That's completely irrelevant outside "I hit a crumple and want max damage". It's not a tool one actually uses.
    Why.
  • The BreakerThe Breaker reading, lol Joined: Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭
    That's completely irrelevant outside "I hit a crumple and want max damage". It's not a tool one actually uses.
    I use it when picking randoms :oops:
    "This game is garbage." Why do you play it?
    "Because the other garbage is cold." So you just like garbage.
  • JazzJazz Pagua Sonfa Joined: Posts: 3,085
    i want them to actually make changes to the game instead of an update that is strictly a roster update

    stuff that was dumb in vanilla is still in the game 3 versions later...
    I think some ppl should join the madden community
  • M.D.M.D. digs older chicks Joined: Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭
    Bullshit pretentious generalization

    You make it sound like offline comp is the spawn of satan. Sorry if I offended your rank.



    That's just wrong, you can learn a shitload of stuff online, there are a lot of players who know how to play the game from footsies to advanced combos. It's the person's fault if he decides to play in laggy matches or he simply has a bad internet connection, I try to never play in any game that's not green.

    If you're getting sub 30ms pings (or preferably less than 20ms) vs your opponent, online is VERY viable.

    This whole "Online doesn't mean shit" attitude around SRK is hilarious, not everyone experiences the same amount of lag that you do.

    Who said I experienced lag?


    I don't get this need to defend online play when it obviously doesn't compare to playing and having an offline scene, saying it's just as viable because solid connections and green bars minimize lag whereas in offline play there is no lag. You can get away with a lot of dumb stuff online, and you can't play proper footsies or frame traps since the reaction time is delayed by 2-4 frames; you end up throwing out normals in anticipation as oppose to reaction. You have to readjust the timing on links (a very bad thing if you're planning to play at a offline major) and make pre-emptive movements to compensate for inputs coming out a couple frames late. You can't tell me there wasn't a time where you pressed :lp: + :lk: and it didn't tech a throw, or you had a magic pixel left and you did Ultra on wakeup to avoid the chip only for it not to come out.



    If you enjoy playing online, then good for you, but like I said, you can't get a concrete basis for the tiers and matchups by strictly playing in that environment, not when you can't react when you want, everyone's playing autopilot, and nobody's punishing you for the mistakes you make.
    "I'm deeeeeaaaadd!" - Williams
    UMVC3: Shehulk/Haggar/Thor
    SSF4: Seth, Gen, Zangief
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