My most wanted change for AE2013

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  • AmigoOneAmigoOne Joined: Posts: 1,160
    mash friendly and awkward momentum/stop and go/whatever

    Terrible arguments, whoever is still coming up with this should just be completely ignored.
  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Karakusa is cheap Joined: Posts: 6,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I never have been able to wrap my mind around 3S. I tried but the game feels just feels too random. I know it's my inexperience talking but the game doesn't feel nearly as fundamentally sound as SF2 or SF4 to me.

    But like I said I have limited experience with 3S.
    Student of the Rindou-Kan
  • EternalEternal unpleasable perfectionist Joined: Posts: 8,877 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ok yeah. I got one: nerf the hitbox on EX Cannon Strike or add a hurtbox to it to make it able to be anti aired.

    One of Cody's defining traits is his amazing normal anti airs right? EX Cannon Strike beats every single one cleanly, b-mp, far HK, far HP, c.HP, neutral jump MK, neutral jump MP, HK Ruffian (trades), Jump back LP, jump back LK. Every single one loses (or in HK Ruffian's instance, trades).

    /saltyrant :|
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  • Rice_EaterRice_Eater Now more Evil Joined: Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭
    I main Evil Ryu and Capcom's decisions with his axe kicks have baffled me since day 1. Two of them seem worthless while the other(EX version) is thrown out more as a prayer.

    Light version: It's unsafe on block though(-7), causes very little push back on block, and is not a true block string when used with low forward. Are we suppose to use this to punish or something? Come on, there are better punishes out there. My proposed changes, damage = same, stun = 100(from 200), -3 on block.

    High version: Slow as fuck and +1 on block. +1 is nice, but this move is so fucking slow, anybody who gets put in block stun by this move should be ashamed of themselves. My proposed changes, make it a true overhead. Give us some incentive for taking the risk of using it because as of right now, no ER uses this move, NONE.

    EX version: It's also kind of slow, is unsafe on block with practically no push back(-4), and has no invincibility of any kind. My proposed changes, hit invincible and -3 on block.

    These changes I propose gives them some risk reward instead of all risk like they are now. But basically I'd like another balance update. I know a lot of people are against it and if it never happens, then I'll be OK. But if it does happen, that's something I'd like to see changed with Evil Ryu.
  • KomatikKomatik Card demon Joined: Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭✭
    Some actual damage for Dhalsim.
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  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭
    really? i thought "there should be parries and dashes should be faster" would warrant that but whatever.

    No, it's usually just coming here and bitching how bad is SF4 (while praysing 3S as a much better...). I understand your hatred toward this game, SF4 killed your beloved 3S, but still...

    You are completelly ignoring the fact that SF4 is still the most popular FG 3 years after it's release, and it's still growing.

    - does it have "stupid issues" ? possible, but what FG doesn't ? definetelly not 3S
    - perfectly balanced ? no. One of the most balanced - yes. Who cares ? anybody who's playing this game (= almost everybody bar some haters)
    - boring ? for me 3S is boring. we even now ?
    - mash friendly, put me to sleep, bla bla - like I said typical 3S crub rant
    - there isn't much variety - :rofl: - esp. coming from a 3S fan...

    As you can see, I didn't call you a 3S scrub for nothing. At least next time come with something that's not entirely laughable. Or better, stick to 3S forums.
    perfectly balanced doesn't mean shit to most of us and being the most balanced fighter in sf history doesn't equal perfect. ssf2t and 3s were far from perfect when it came to balance and yet they were a lot of fun. momentum wasn't constantly stop and go like sf4. if you like the pace sf4 offers then more power to you. i think this game can still be improved a lot and still feel like it's part of the sf4 series, but of course that's my opinion and my tastes are what i'm more concerned with.

    - who are "most of us" ? you and your 3 other friends that still plays 3S ? Because for the rest of the community, being very balanced is quite important.
    - who decides which games are "lot of fun" ? You ? me ? we are making a poll ?

    You are just making some silly generalizations. People have different meanings for what fun is, but it's a fact that most of the fgc enjoys SF4 (something that could never be said for 3S - even in it's prime time).
    You don't like this game ? no problem, there are many others. Play what you like, but coming here and calling a game bad just because you don't like it it's ...very scrubby.
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  • pootnanniespootnannies hypocrite Joined: Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭
    No, it's usually just coming here and bitching how bad is SF4 (while praysing 3S as a much better...). I understand your hatred toward this game, SF4 killed your beloved 3S, but still...

    You are completelly ignoring the fact that SF4 is still the most popular FG 3 years after it's release, and it's still growing.

    - does it have "stupid issues" ? possible, but what FG doesn't ? definetelly not 3S
    - perfectly balanced ? no. One of the most balanced - yes. Who cares ? anybody who's playing this game (= almost everybody bar some haters)
    - boring ? for me 3S is boring. we even now ?
    - mash friendly, put me to sleep, bla bla - like I said typical 3S crub rant
    - there isn't much variety - :rofl: - esp. coming from a 3S fan...

    As you can see, I didn't call you a 3S scrub for nothing. At least next time come with something that's not entirely laughable. Or better, stick to 3S forums.



    - who are "most of us" ? you and your 3 other friends that still plays 3S ? Because for the rest of the community, being very balanced is quite important.
    - who decides which games are "lot of fun" ? You ? me ? we are making a poll ?

    You are just making some silly generalizations. People have different meanings for what fun is, but it's a fact that most of the fgc enjoys SF4 (something that could never be said for 3S - even in it's prime time).
    You don't like this game ? no problem, there are many others. Play what you like, but coming here and calling a game bad just because you don't like it it's ...very scrubby.
    alright, i bet you've been following some of my previous posts outside this thread since nothing i said screams "3s scrub".

    -why single out 3s? i mentioned ST and i can mention HF and Alpha 2 for starters.
    -anybody still playing this game? nowhere near as many as a few years back. everyone watches umvc3 on streams and drop like flies when sf4 comes on. just look at the online lobbies if you want more proof.
    -yeah boring. as in not interesting because of many issues i'll type out just for you if you keep reading.
    -no you could mash like crazy to get out of block strings and reversal in all other sf games right? wait that was only 3s... oh boy.
    -3s has much less characters and yes i so happen to be a fan of that game but i guess another game i mentioned, ST, has a lot fewer characters and yet more varied than sf4 imo. i guess you hate 3s so much that you just keep going to that instead of reading what i wrote.
    -most of us would be tournament organizers, players, and stream monsters. we used to get good turn outs for sf4 a couple years back. we get like 1/3 of that now in local tournaments.
    -personal opinion for a thread that's not based on facts.
    -if anything, 3s was slowly growing instead of shrinking before sf4's release. it's always been popular in japan and continues to beat sf4 according to arcadia. EDIT (not totally true as pointed out by someone else)

    i didn't come here just to call the game "bad". it has bad things in it that imo could be addressed and make the game better overall. i wouldn't be here if i completely hated the game to begin with. the title of the thread is "My most wanted change for AE2013" so if you don't like my ideas just don't read them or put me on your ignore list.
    if you want me to go into specifics for like the 100th time then i will do so. I don't think small character balances are the only things warranted to make a new entry into sf4 better. there are a few things that make offense incredibly limited and delegated to OS and vortexes. the first is invincible back dashes. i can understand that being character specific for the ones with shit defense but it makes jump-in OS forcing you to block or reversal anyway so it's redundant and annoying (at least for me). it also stops the tiny amount of mix ups outside of vortex situations on knockdown.
    while i'm on the subject of knockdown i might as well address everything that kills the fun in these situations in this game that never impacted any other sf game (omg and it's not just 3s!). 5 frame buffer reversal window is way too big (sf2 series had 0-1f reversal window and 3s as far as i know had 3f). with plinking, pianoing, and shortcuts there is little to no reason for keeping that in since the majority of people still buying new installments of sf4 are not beginners.
    FABD is already one way of escaping pressure and FADC on block for reversals with invincibility is stupid and another way to get out of pressure, at least after a knockdown. very little risk with a lot of reward for a lot of the cast.
    so here's what i propose. no FADC on block in reversal situations. you want to risk ending your opponents pressure with an invincible move you should pay the consequences. reversal window should be 3 or less frames and you get to keep input shortcuts. invincible backdashes should be taken out and left for a handful of the cast that has weak defense. less knockdown time on both regular and hardknockdowns or just fix the ambiguous hitboxes so the game isn't mostly about vortexes and easy ass unblockables.

    zoning. yeah it's there and it was fun in sf2 but it's not really all that great in this game, IMO. slow walk speeds and shitty hit boxes as well as focus absorb take away from that. not much can be done here since one of sf4's signature characteristics is the focus attack. i would agree with the OP on faster walk speeds for the majority of the cast. works very well with akuma so i don't see it becoming a huge disaster.

    supers and ultras. well sf4's major attraction is the ultra and that's fine. i want to keep the game feeling like it's own in the sf series so i feel that for the most part it's fine. however, supers feel like an afterthought and should build up much faster for the player who's landing attacks or getting his/her attacks blocked. reward the player for taking calculated risks and keeping the match interesting. good offense leads to good defense. both can be more exciting but as of right now they're not IMO. super meter should function as it does now for the player that's just blocking or getting hit.

    hit/block stun. a real problem in the past but people have found ways around it. unfortunately jab chains are almost exclusively the only true block strings for most characters but if the changes i mentioned about reversals having shorter windows and not being able to FADC on block were implemented, i would just leave this as is.

    character balance. the bane of this game as far as how to "fix" it goes. there's a lot that's been nerfed and very little that's been buffed. with a huge cast it's probably the most cost effective way to balance the game but it makes characters less interesting. i'd rather see more buffing than nerfing.

    well there you have it Emanuelb. those are the major concerns i have and of course they are my opinions but i gave the best reasoning i could find at this time for why they should be implemented. the game should still feel familiar to sf4 fans and yet make it more interesting. also, this post is on topic.
    if i offended you with my first post then i guess i'm sorry. i don't know why you keep bringing up 3s but all i meant is that ST and all the older sf classics are more interesting than sf4 (imo. and that's all that matters in a thread like this)
    TLDR: ignore me please.
    visit the HD Sprite Thread- http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/hi-def-sprite-thread-first-post-updated-1-9.32449/

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  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭
    - well, I kept bringing 3S for a simple reason - you have a 3S character avatar, so I asume you are a fan of the game. And no, I never searched for other posts of yours - I only know you from this thread.

    - on how many people play this game - Evo 2012 had 1500+ entrants - the most from any game, and the best attendance ever (more so than previous Evos), so the game scene is still growing.

    Finally, I have nothing against someone having a different oppinion on SF4. What I didn't like in your first post is that you just said the game is bad, boring, put you to sleep, without giving any meaningfull thoughts on how this game should be changed for the better (the title of this thread). Basically you looked like you just came here to bitch on this game, you also had a 3S avatar (and every encounter I had with a 3S player in SF4 forum was them bad mouthing SF4) hence, my response.

    Regarding your proposed changes in the post above - interesting stuff, I even agree with some of them. I wish you had posted these on your first post (so we shouldn't have this conversation)
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  • Thunder Road ManThunder Road Man Hey there Joined: Posts: 316
    still feel that sonic hurricane should do 70 more damage
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭
    - perfectly balanced ? no. One of the most balanced - yes. Who cares ? anybody who's playing this game (= almost everybody bar some haters)
    Actually I'd rather have over half the cast be completely shitty. It's impossible to learn 40 matchups in detail.
    Why.
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭
    Yes, but I bet you would want your character to be in the upper half ;).
    Also, some people would still like more characters in this game :D.
    SSF4 AE v. 2012 - 2013 Tier List: http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6905/a2oo.jpg

  • Axl_m4sterAxl_m4ster This is how I look like, don't make fun Joined: Posts: 2,423
    better they fuck with another sf4 game instead of bringing their bad ideas into sf5. they need to address some really stupid issues that have been there since vanilla if they plan on making a sf5 because that would be a major bummer.

    perfectly balanced? nope. and who really cares. the game is mad boring now especially since it's so hard-knockdown, ambiguous/unblockable jump-in heavy for 90% of the cast. there isn't much variety even with 39 characters and most match ups put me to sleep. it's so slow and mash friendly that it's more frustrating to play than to enjoy it. too bad it's basically the only sf game people are playing right now.
    Typical 3S scrub rant.
    a player of shitty fighter 4 should never ever call another gamer of any other fighter a "scrub" at any moment in time. have you forgotten the gimmick inundated game your playing? for shame.
    LOGIC AND REASON ARE OVERRATED VIRTUES.
  • GenistarGenistar BLARG! Joined: Posts: 3,870 ✭✭✭
    Just buff all the lower tier characters and add some new things to make this game better like music from vanilla SF4
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  • PointBreak91PointBreak91 Custom costumes for SFV please Cap Joined: Posts: 666
    Make Chun-Li excellent.

    Also, SF3 > Disney Star Wars > SF4
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  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭
    Yes, but I bet you would want your character to be in the upper half ;).
    I'd willingly sacrifice Juri if that reduced the characterpool in SF4 to 15-20 grossly buffed characters out of which I then could pick.
    Also, some people would still like more characters in this game :D.
    Theybad
    Why.
  • EternalEternal unpleasable perfectionist Joined: Posts: 8,877 ✭✭✭✭✭
    -if anything, 3s was slowly growing instead of shrinking before sf4's release. it's always been popular in japan and continues to beat sf4 according to arcadia.

    Do you mean Arcadia magazine? Because if so, that is a blatant lie.

    Now it is true that despite its age 3S is surprisingly popular still in japan. It is a complete fabrication that it is beating SF4. Arcadia popularity numbers I could find with a quick google search

    October 2008

    1. TEKKEN 6
    364.3 / Pts.
    2. Mobile Suit Gundam: Gundam VS. Gundam
    269.4 / pts.
    3. Virtua Fighter 5 R
    254.7 / Pts.
    4. STREET FIGHTER IV
    201.9 / Pts.
    5. GUILTY GEAR XX Λ CORE
    183.3 / Pts.
    6. Arcana Heart 2
    181.5 / Pts.
    7. Fate / unlimited codes
    169.8 / Pts.
    8. Great comeback DoDonPachi ver.1.5
    121.4 / pts.
    9. THE KING OF FIGHTERS'98 ULTIMATE MATCH
    102.3 / Pts.
    10. MELTY BLOOD Act Cadenza
    87.9 / pts.

    November 2008
    1. Tekken 6 - 308.2pts. (-)
    2. Mobile Suit Gundam: Gundam vs. Gundam - 264.9pts. (-)
    3. MELTY BLOOD Actress Again - 224.3 pts. (NEW)
    4. Street Fighter IV - 204.6 pts. (-)
    5. Virtua Fighter 5R - 183.1 pts.(-1)
    6. Guilty Gear XX Accent Core - 164.7 pts. (-)
    7. Arcana Heart 2 - 124.1 pts. (-1)
    8. Fate/Unlimited Codes - 110.7 pts. (-)
    9. Mobile Suit Gundam: Federation vs. ZAFT II - 84.6 pts. (+1)
    10. Dondonpachi Daifukkatsu - 81.3pts (+1)
    March 2009

    1. Blazblue
    2. Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion
    3. Mobile Suit Gundam: Gundam vs. Gundam
    4. Virtua Fighter 5R
    5. Street Fighter IV
    6. Melty Blood Actress Again
    7. Sugoi! Arcana Heart 2
    8. Tekken 6
    9. Tatsunoko vs. Capcom (NEW)
    10. Guilty Gear XX Accent Core

    Jan 2010
    1. Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion
    2. Mobile Suit Gundam: Gundam VS Gundam NEXT
    3. Blazblue: Continuum Shift (NEW)
    4. Guilty Gear XX Accent Core
    5. Melty Blood: Actress Again (NEW)
    6. King of Fighters 2002 Unlimited Match (+4)
    7. Virtua Fighter 5R
    8. Senko no Ronde DUO (+1)
    9. Street Fighter IV (-2)

    Feb 2010
    1. Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion
    2. Mobile Suit Gundam: Gundam VS Gundam NEXT
    3. Blazblue: Continuum Shift
    4. Melty Blood: Actress Again (+1)
    5. Guilty Gear XX Accent Core (-1)
    6. Virtua Fighter 5R (+1)
    7. Street Fighter IV (+2)
    8. King of Fighters 2002 Unlimited Match (-2)
    9. Senko no Ronde DUO
    10. Daemon Bride (NEW)

    May 2011 -

    1. Gundam Extreme Versus (276.8 points)
    2. Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown (259.4 points)
    3. Tekken 6 Bloodline Rebellion (241.5 points)
    4. Super Street Fighter 4 AE (197.3 points)
    5. Melty Blood AA Current Code (111.5 points)
    6. Blazblue CSII (92.7 points)
    7. Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo (79.1 points)
    8. Street Fighter III 3rd Strike (70.5 points)
    9. Arcana Heart 3 (68.7 points)
    10. Gundam vs. Gundam NEXT (65.3 points)

    ///
    2011
    Arcadia June issue Top 10
    1. Gundam vs. Gundam Xtreme Versus
    2. Tekken 6 Bloodline Rebellion
    3. Blazblue Continuum Shift II
    4. Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition
    5. Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown
    6. Arcana Heart 3
    7. Melty Blood Actress Again Current Code
    8. Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
    9. King of Fighters XIII
    10. Marvel vs. Capcom 2
    Arcadia July issue Top 10
    1. Gundam vs. Gundam Xtreme Versus
    2. Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown
    3. Blazblue Continuum Shift II
    4. Tekken 6 Bloodline Rebellion
    5. Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition
    6. King Of Fighters 2002 Unlimited Match
    7. Arcana Heart 3
    8. Melty Blood Actress Again Current Code
    9. Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
    10. King of Fighters XIII

    ////

    April 2012

    1. Persona 4: The Ultimate in Mayonaka Arena
    2. Gundam vs Gundam Extreme Vs Full Boost
    3. Tekken Unlimited Tag Tournament 2
    4. Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown
    5. Super Street Fighter 4: Arcade Edition Ver. 2012
    6. AquaPazza: AquaPlus Dream Match
    7. Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
    8. Dragonball Zenkai Battle Royale
    9. BlazBlue Continuum Shift II
    10. Guilty Gear Accent Core XX

    ///

    December 2012

    1/GUNDAM EXTREME VS.Full boost 226.7pt
    2/UNDER NIGHT IN-BIRTH 214.9pt
    3/GGXXAC+R 208.1pt
    4/DBZ ZENKAI 165.5pt
    5/SSF4AE 2012 157.1pt
    6/TEKKEN TAG 2 130.2pt
    7/PERSONNA 4 121.1pt
    8/VF5 FINAL SHODOWN 105.5pt
    9/DODONPACHI SAIDAIOUJOU 103.1pt
    10/STREET FIGHTER 3.3RD STRIKE 92.3pt

    ////////

    Moral of the story: if you are going to lie, try and lie in a way that isn't easily googled to disprove you.

    Hell, if anything the rise in popularity of SF4 has sparked a renewed interest in SF3
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  • ZeroTheHeroZeroTheHero Nothing but GG's Joined: Posts: 39
    Stats

    Moral of the story is that everyone in the thread loses for arguing over what OTHER people play. If you guys love so well to support whatever game is the top overall earner in Japanese arcades then I ask.... Why are you not playing Tekken?
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  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • pootnanniespootnannies hypocrite Joined: Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭
    - well, I kept bringing 3S for a simple reason - you have a 3S character avatar, so I asume you are a fan of the game. And no, I never searched for other posts of yours - I only know you from this thread.

    - on how many people play this game - Evo 2012 had 1500+ entrants - the most from any game, and the best attendance ever (more so than previous Evos), so the game scene is still growing.

    Finally, I have nothing against someone having a different oppinion on SF4. What I didn't like in your first post is that you just said the game is bad, boring, put you to sleep, without giving any meaningfull thoughts on how this game should be changed for the better (the title of this thread). Basically you looked like you just came here to bitch on this game, you also had a 3S avatar (and every encounter I had with a 3S player in SF4 forum was them bad mouthing SF4) hence, my response.

    Regarding your proposed changes in the post above - interesting stuff, I even agree with some of them. I wish you had posted these on your first post (so we shouldn't have this conversation)

    alright i feel you on that. many years ago (like 2008-9 at least) i was a hater. i don't think it's a good idea to judge me based on my avatar. i mean it looks fucking cool and was done by some dude on deviantart who makes a bunch of these chibi versions of sf characters. anyways, i hope that now when you see a 3s avatar it won't give you the impression that that person hates sf4.

    -on that argument i'll just stick with "that doesn't mean they like it as much" since the prizes and stuff kinda motivate people to sign up for games, especially ones they've been playing for a long time. a 2013 version of this game with some changes other than balance would help it's shelf life for the long run imo. for the record i hope those that love sf4 will always have a scene for themselves.

    i agree i came into this thread like a joke thread (the way it's titled and the OP made me think that) and i just vented like it's front page srk material. i didn't mean to piss anyone off and i know what it's like when people diss your game. i thought some of the things i mentioned were just well known now because it's been repeated by others in the more popular sf4 threads so i didn't leave any reasoning.
    visit the HD Sprite Thread- http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/hi-def-sprite-thread-first-post-updated-1-9.32449/

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  • pootnanniespootnannies hypocrite Joined: Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭
    Do you mean Arcadia magazine? Because if so, that is a blatant lie.

    Now it is true that despite its age 3S is surprisingly popular still in japan. It is a complete fabrication that it is beating SF4. Arcadia popularity numbers I could find with a quick google search

    EDIT

    Moral of the story: if you are going to lie, try and lie in a way that isn't easily googled to disprove you.

    Hell, if anything the rise in popularity of SF4 has sparked a renewed interest in SF3

    it wasn't a blatant lie because i saw it here on srk front page or eventhubs or something. it was there that 3s was actually beating it that month and possibly more than just one month but i'm sure i wasn't the only one who noticed. someone else who remembers might know where to find it but either way, just 1 or 2 months of it beating it wasn't a very strong point obviously so, sorry i guess because yeah, it doesn't continuously beat it?

    well that last part is definitely debatable. maybe capcom seeing good sales from HDR and MVC2 for example, led to 3SOE. Maybe sf4 did contribute but if you want to play detective then maybe you shouldn't just assume it did and give more reasoning for that.
    visit the HD Sprite Thread- http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/hi-def-sprite-thread-first-post-updated-1-9.32449/

    “... keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.”

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    ggpo: whodat?
  • yesyes Joined: Posts: 216
  • JulperoJulpero Joined: Posts: 759 ✭✭
    Some actual damage for Dhalsim.

    Well maybe his combo damage but nothing else. In Super he dominated too many other zoning characters and many characters who already had a hard time against his zoning just suffered more.
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  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭✭
    More damage isn't Sim's issue, the way he's designed and this amount of characters will give him some easy matchups and other nightmare matchups, kinda like Gief. IMO a Sim player should pickup an alternate to cover his bad matchups and be equally good with both characters.
    "Blanka is scrub." - Tokido
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭
    I think Dhalsim needs his damage back from super. He is just helpless against too many chars. But I'm also considering buffing most of the cast - bring also back the damage for Guile and Honda from Super, etc - these were some pointless nerfs, it's not like Guile, Honda and Sim were dominating in Super.
    SSF4 AE v. 2012 - 2013 Tier List: http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6905/a2oo.jpg

  • JulperoJulpero Joined: Posts: 759 ✭✭
    I think Dhalsim needs his damage back from super. He is just helpless against too many chars. But I'm also considering buffing most of the cast - bring also back the damage for Guile and Honda from Super, etc - these were some pointless nerfs, it's not like Guile, Honda and Sim were dominating in Super.

    Well Guile was probably top 3 in the game, at least to me, but I agree the damage nerfs were pointless. The meter building nerf was enough. I don't think Honda needs the damage truthfully. He's good now and his damage certainly isn't bad in any way.

    Dhalsim certainly needed a damage nerf. He was a viable counter-pick against Daigo's Ryu. So good a counter-pick that a guy like Ryan Hart, who's certainly not a Dhalsim player, forced Daigo to pick Cammy to counter Ryan's Dhalsim.

    Now that Ryu has the damage advantage in the fireball war against Sim he still doesn't do too well in the match-up. Damage isn't what Dhalsim needs. He needs a tool that helps him defend against pressure.
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  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭
    Honda's nerfs were pointless. Yes, he has good damage, but he's suppose to. He has some really bad matches, and it's not like he's dominating majors.

    Dhalsim - ok, so he was a realy bad counterpick for Ryu in Super. So ? Ryu had finally a really bad match. Most characters have them - including Sim, who has his share of awfull matches (way more than ryu).
    SSF4 AE v. 2012 - 2013 Tier List: http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6905/a2oo.jpg

  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭✭
    Now that Ryu has the damage advantage in the fireball war against Sim he still doesn't do too well in the match-up. Damage isn't what Dhalsim needs. He needs a tool that helps him defend against pressure.

    He got his great close normals, Yoga tower and untechable EX AA flame for that, giving him tools to deal even better with close pressure will easily break the character and make several matchups in this game unwinnable for those who struggle all match long to just get closer to Sim.

    That's his weakness, his character design is just too difficult to balance out and avoid bad matchups.
    "Blanka is scrub." - Tokido
  • GenistarGenistar BLARG! Joined: Posts: 3,870 ✭✭✭
    I'd actually like if Dhalsim got like half of his old damage back. I think that way he still has bad match ups but his opponents have a more difficult time dealing with him.
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  • hellbox9hellbox9 Joined: Posts: 302
    Fix sagat corner U1 glitch.

    I HIT IT I WON........WTF...................... (leads to getting cornered, mixed up on the hippo size hitbox and killed).
  • KomatikKomatik Card demon Joined: Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd actually like if Dhalsim got like half of his old damage back. I think that way he still has bad match ups but his opponents have a more difficult time dealing with him.

    And just damage would suddenly erase multiple 3-7's and turn them into even matches? I doubt it.
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  • GenistarGenistar BLARG! Joined: Posts: 3,870 ✭✭✭
    And just damage would suddenly erase multiple 3-7's and turn them into even matches? I doubt it.
    I never said it would ease up 7-3 match ups i just said the extra damage would make people think before mindlessly running in.
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  • LovelyDemonLovelyDemon Joined: Posts: 22
    I think this game is already well balanced as it is. I think the only thing they should update are the trials; Yun, Yang, Evil Ryu, and Oni still do not have trials. Also, they are still at the Super version for the trials, examplified by dictator's trials (Ultra II is a double QCF motion instead of the charge motion). Maybe add some extras like Gallery and whatnot just as an extra, but as far as the actual balance goes I think they should leave it alone.
    Also, for those who are asking for one more thing... NO MORE CHARACTERS ADDED!! 39 is already a big roster, I don't understand why people want more. Just makes balancing the game much harder, and just a few more matchups to learn. I really don't see the point in adding more characters.
  • Ufinna-git-karate'dUfinna-git-karate'd Are you okay? Joined: Posts: 360
    I hope capcom doesn't listen to a majority of the suggestions here.
    Where does Squall keep his Gunblade when he isn't using it????
  • KomatikKomatik Card demon Joined: Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭✭
    You know what, I actually just figured out something I want far, far more than some walk speed tweaks.
    Please, for my nerves' sake if nothing else, make El Fuerte to play Street Fighter. This can be extended to several other characters that are little more than a walking mixup, but Fuerte takes the cake by a landslide. Simply fixing or deleting him would improve the game insanely much.
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,371 ✭✭✭
    Just buff all the lower tier characters and add some new things to make this game better like music from vanilla SF4
    There is only one change that HAS TO HAPPEN...



    WE ALL WANT IT BACK.
    我道
  • XgrayninjaXgrayninja Fumbling my way to the top. One loss at a time. Joined: Posts: 1,224
    Oh God, how did this turn into a stupid 3rd Strike vs SFIV debate? :/
    Gotta be hungry.
  • farhanniusfarhannius Joined: Posts: 172
    A change/addition I want is the ability to fast-forward ultras in training mode. I remember practicing SRK fadc ultra over and over again and hated having to wait for the ultra animation to end. If the ultra connects, great, fast forward and do it again. Just makes training mode more user friendly and more effective.
  • Darklightjg1Darklightjg1 Dr. SuessLight Joined: Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭✭
    A save state/load state would be cool and eliminate the need to wait for things like an ultra to end.

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  • Dollar_bill$Dollar_bill$ Joined: Posts: 111
  • Ufinna-git-karate'dUfinna-git-karate'd Are you okay? Joined: Posts: 360
    Oh God, how did this turn into a stupid 3rd Strike vs SFIV debate? :/
    Because this is a forum and people like to start bullshit.
    Where does Squall keep his Gunblade when he isn't using it????
  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Sonic Boom! Joined: Posts: 1,826 ✭✭
    better they fuck with another sf4 game instead of bringing their bad ideas into sf5. they need to address some really stupid issues that have been there since vanilla if they plan on making a sf5 because that would be a major bummer.

    Well SF5 isnt coming for a few years anyways. Its gonna run on a new engine and its gonna have a different core mechanic. So I wouldnt use SF4 as a template for SF5,

    What I want the most? Is that SF5 takes place after SF3 timeline wise. I wanna see huge changes to aging characters.
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  • pootnanniespootnannies hypocrite Joined: Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭
    Well SF5 isnt coming for a few years anyways. Its gonna run on a new engine and its gonna have a different core mechanic. So I wouldnt use SF4 as a template for SF5,

    What I want the most? Is that SF5 takes place after SF3 timeline wise. I wanna see huge changes to aging characters.
    what i meant when i said that is if they can't fix some of the glaring mistakes in sf4 after 4 tries then i'd be worried about them going into a new direction with sf5. of course some people don't consider them mistakes since if they like the pace and mechanics of sf4 just the way they are then it's opinion based anyways. i was arguing for my tastes and those with similar tastes.
    i would also like to see it take place after sf3. oro trained ryu and an epic battle between ryu and akuma.
    visit the HD Sprite Thread- http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/hi-def-sprite-thread-first-post-updated-1-9.32449/

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  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Sonic Boom! Joined: Posts: 1,826 ✭✭
    what i meant when i said that is if they can't fix some of the glaring mistakes in sf4 after 4 tries then i'd be worried about them going into a new direction with sf5. of course some people don't consider them mistakes since if they like the pace and mechanics of sf4 just the way they are then it's opinion based anyways. i was arguing for my tastes and those with similar tastes.
    i would also like to see it take place after sf3. oro trained ryu and an epic battle between ryu and akuma.

    Well a lot of the mistake of SF4 has nothing to do with game design a lot of them with actual 3D engine. The only thing that I wish was different was the reversal window. I think its just too big, besides that I really dont have a problem with AE2012 it at all. Im glad its different from the other SF games. It needs have its own identity.
    Supercade, XBL and GGPO tags: Projectjustice
  • pootnanniespootnannies hypocrite Joined: Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭
    Well a lot of the mistake of SF4 has nothing to do with game design a lot of them with actual 3D engine. The only thing that I wish was different was the reversal window. I think its just too big, besides that I really dont have a problem with AE2012 it at all. Im glad its different from the other SF games. It needs have its own identity.
    i don't really know if it has to do with a 3D engine or not. i don't see why it would. maybe the 2D hitboxes being tied in some how to the 3D models? i know that the hitboxes are on their own 2D plane that the 3D models overlay them but i don't know any major specifics.
    i like that sf4 is it's own game as well but there are things imo that could be better. better hitboxes, walk speeds, etc... just a lot of loose screws that need to be tightened. i don't want it to be like other sf games but i do want it to be more exciting and i think that's still possible within the sf4 engine.
    visit the HD Sprite Thread- http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/hi-def-sprite-thread-first-post-updated-1-9.32449/

    “... keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.”

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  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Sonic Boom! Joined: Posts: 1,826 ✭✭
    i don't really know if it has to do with a 3D engine or not. i don't see why it would. maybe the 2D hitboxes being tied in some how to the 3D models? i know that the hitboxes are on their own 2D plane that the 3D models overlay them but i don't know any major specifics.
    i like that sf4 is it's own game as well but there are things imo that could be better. better hitboxes, walk speeds, etc... just a lot of loose screws that need to be tightened. i don't want it to be like other sf games but i do want it to be more exciting and i think that's still possible within the sf4 engine.

    It could be more exciting. For me the main thing that holds it back is the reversal window being so big. It promotes defensive play.
    Supercade, XBL and GGPO tags: Projectjustice
  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,570 ✭✭✭
    Light version: It's unsafe on block though(-7), causes very little push back on block, and is not a true block string when used with low forward. Are we suppose to use this to punish or something? Come on, there are better punishes out there. My proposed changes, damage = same, stun = 100(from 200), -3 on block.
    It's very useful when buffering it off a cr.mk in footsies, leading to a full combo into a knockdown off FADC.
    High version: Slow as fuck and +1 on block. +1 is nice, but this move is so fucking slow, anybody who gets put in block stun by this move should be ashamed of themselves. My proposed changes, make it a true overhead. Give us some incentive for taking the risk of using it because as of right now, no ER uses this move, NONE.
    It's useful in combos. Being an overhead would be fine, but I don't think it really needs to be. If anything, what would be useful is to reduce the pushback on it so that E Ryu can abuse the +1 frame advantage better. I mean, he has a 3 frame low jab and a 4 frame cr.mp.

    EX version: It's also kind of slow, is unsafe on block with practically no push back(-4), and has no invincibility of any kind. My proposed changes, hit invincible and -3 on block.
    You want another reversal? And you have 3 frame invincible DP you can FADC? LOL.

    This change is ridiculous and you should see it as such.
    These changes I propose gives them some risk reward instead of all risk like they are now. But basically I'd like another balance update. I know a lot of people are against it and if it never happens, then I'll be OK. But if it does happen, that's something I'd like to see changed with Evil Ryu.
    I'm not convinced E Ryu needs changes. He has tons of good buttons (cr.mk, cr.mp, s.mk, s.hp, f.mk) that people don't abuse. I'm not saying he's fine, but moreso that I'm indecisive.
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  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭
    I
    You want another reversal? And you have 3 frame invincible DP you can FADC? LOL.

    This change is ridiculous and you should see it as such.

    I'm not convinced E Ryu needs changes. He has tons of good buttons (cr.mk, cr.mp, s.mk, s.hp, f.mk) that people don't abuse. I'm not saying he's fine, but moreso that I'm indecisive.

    EX Axe kick has 21 start up frames. It's worthless as a reversal.
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  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,570 ✭✭✭
    EX Axe kick has 21 start up frames. It's worthless as a reversal.
    It would still hit people because it's an overhead, just like Makoto's EX Oroshi.
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - The original blueprint for competitive fighting game thought.

    Maj's Footsies Handbook - It's like the Bible, but for Street Fighter.
  • PorterPorter Retired Defense Attorney Joined: Posts: 1,554
    This thread blows. Not a single good suggestion aside from a rematch option in two person lobbies.
    Erase THIS!
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Oh Noes! My Character! Joined: Posts: 7,009 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This thread blows. Not a single good suggestion aside from a rematch option in two person lobbies.

    lies.

    im not even gonna take credit for it, but getting rid of reverse blockable/unblockable is solid.

    i can play devils advocate or argue a lot of the other stuff as opinion based, but there isnt a single good thing that comes out of the blocking BS

    in fact, i think it actually encourages people to be (gasp) more random on wake up. why even try to play solid if youre just gonna have your eyes tell you the complete wrong direction

    thats my number one lab goal whenever i get back around to making futile attempts at being competitive. invalidate that shit
    DWU fucked my bitch
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