"I am the lightning, the rain transformed..." — Raiden Thread

AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
Raiden.png

Supers:
  • Lv1: 150 - Two Hand Top: Raiden does an upside-down spinkick, cutting through surrounding enemies with his blade.
  • Lv2: 250 (400) - Blade Mode: Raiden stuns surrounding opponents with a blast, then follows up with free cuts with his blade.
  • Lv3: 350 (750) - Boxed In: Raiden's opponents are trapped in cardboard boxes. After Raiden closes his ninja mask, Raiden can then proceed to slash open the boxes to find the other players and eliminate them.
AP Lost When Thrown: 15%

Square Moves
  • Single Hand Cut - Btn_square.png: Raiden peforms a close range attack with his high frequency blade. Continue to press square for the full combo to come out.
  • Backward Stab - Playstation-Lstick-Left.png + Btn_square.png : Raiden performs a backward stab without turning around. Press square for a follow-up hit.
  • Leaping Cut - Playstation-Lstick-Right.png + Btn_square.png : Raiden leaps forward and cuts.
  • Launching Cut Playstation-Lstick-Up.png +' Btn_square.png : Raiden launches the enemy up, can be followed by a jump.
  • Jumping Roll Cut - Playstation-Lstick-Down.png + Btn_square.png : Raiden bounces the enemy off the ground following a jump roll motion.
  • Aerial Cut - Btn_square.png (Air): Raiden slashes the enemy in the air. Continue to press square for the full combo to come out.
  • Spinning Roll Cut - Playstation-Lstick-Right.png + Btn_square.png (Air) : Raiden spins forward, parallel to the ground, slashing enemies in his way.
  • Air Launching Cut - Playstation-Lstick-Up.png + Btn_square.png (Air):Raiden lifts the enemy up with his blade.
  • Downward Slash - Playstation-Lstick-Down.png + Btn_square.png (Air) : Raiden slashes downward straight from the air.
Triangle Moves
  • Heavy Slash - Btn_triangle.png : Raiden performs a medium range attack with his blade. Continue to press triangle for the full combo to come out. Alternate combo paths exist using square.
  • Hundred Hit Kick - Playstation-Lstick-Right.png +Btn_triangle.png : Raiden performs a series of rapid kicks on the enemy and then ejects him.
  • Upward Sweep - Playstation-Lstick-Up.png +Btn_triangle.png : Raiden sweep-kicks upward.
  • Ashibarai - Playstation-Lstick-Down.png + Btn_triangle.png : Raiden does a 360 degree crounching sweep kick.
  • Whirlwind Kick - Btn_triangle.png (Air) : Raiden spins in air like a whirlwind.
  • Dive Kick - Playstation-Lstick-Right.png + Btn_triangle.png (Air) : Raiden kicks diagonally downward from midair.
  • Air Upward Sweep - Playstation-Lstick-Up.png + Btn_triangle.png (Air) : Raiden sweep-kicks upward in air.
  • Heel Drop Kick - Playstation-Lstick-Down.png + Btn_triangle.png (Air) : Raiden kicks the enemy directly below him.
Circle Moves
  • Counter - Btn_circle.png : Raiden counters the enemy's attack.
  • Charging Cut - Playstation-Lstick-Right.png + Btn_circle.png : Raiden slides forward and cuts. Hold down circle button to slide more distance.
  • Horse Jump - Playstation-Lstick-Up.png + Btn_circle.png : Raiden horse jump over another enemy.
  • lai-giri - Playstation-Lstick-Down.png + Btn_circle.png : Raiden instantly gets next to an enemy within a certain distance.
  • Counter - Btn_circle.png (Air) : Raiden counters the enemy's attack.
  • Air Charging Cut - Playstation-Lstick-Right.png + Btn_circle.png (Air) : Raiden slides forward and cuts. Hold down circle button to slide more distance.
  • Stomp - Playstation-Lstick-Up.png + Btn_circle.png (Air) : Raiden catches the enemy with an upward kick and stomps on the enemy.
  • Drill - Playstation-Lstick-Down.png + Btn_circle.png (Air) : Raiden pins an enemy with his blade from air.
Throws
  • Forward Throw - Playstation-Rstick-Left.png or Playstation-Rstick-Right.png: Raiden throws an enemy forward with his blade.
  • Up Throw - Playstation-Rstick-Up.png: Raiden bounces an enemy with his blade.
  • Zan-Datsu - Playstation-Rstick-Down.png: Raiden takes AP or item from the enemy as he cuts though the enemy.
P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
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Comments

  • AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
    Notation:

    Btn_square.png = S(quare)
    Btn_triangle.png = T(riangle)
    Btn_circle.png = C(ircle)
    Btn_cross.png = X


    20121125103044%21Playstation-Lstick-Neutral.png = N(eutral)
    Playstation-Lstick-Right.png = F(orward)
    Playstation-Lstick-Up.png = U(p)
    Playstation-Lstick-Down.png = D(own)
    Playstation-Lstick-Left.png = B(ack)


    Combos:

    Single Hand Cut Combo - NSSSS
    AP Gain: 45

    Leaping Cut Combo - FS, NSSSS
    AP Gain: 65

    Launcher Cut Combo - US, X, j.NSSSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    *Can substitute last square for forward triangle for knockdown at the cost of 10 less AP (60).*
    AP Gain: 70

    Leaping Launcher Cut Combo - FS, US, X, j.NSSSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    *Can substitute last square for forward triangle for knockdown at the cost of 10 less AP (80).*
    AP Gain: 90

    Backward Stab Combo - BSS, US, X, j.NSSSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    *Can substitute last square for forward triangle for knockdown at the cost of 10 less AP (85).*
    AP Gain: 95

    Leaping Cut BnB - FS, NT, NS, DC, US, X, j.NSSSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    AP Gain: 155

    Heavy Slash Combo(s):
    • NTTT - AP Gain: 20
    • NTST - AP Gain: 45
    • NTTTST - AP Gain: 60
    Dive Kick Combo - j.FT, j.NSSSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    *Can substitute last square for forward triangle for knockdown at the cost of 10 less AP (60). Will not work on Toro, Fat Princess, Sackboy.*
    AP Gain: 70

    Dive Kick Combo 2 - j.FT (low to the ground), DC, US, X, j.NSSSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    AP Gain: 140

    Dive Kick Combo 3 - j.FT, j.UT, US, X, j.NSSSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    AP Gain: 140

    Ashibarai Combo - DT, BSS, US, X, j.NSSSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    AP Gain: 145

    Heel Drop Kick BnB - j.DT, NT, NS, DC, US, X, j.NSSSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    AP Gain: 155

    Counter BnB - Counter, FS, NT, NS, DC, US, X, j.NT
    AP Gain: 155

    Counter BnB2 - Counter, NT, NS, DC, US, X, j.NSSSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    AP Gain: 155

    Forward Throw BnB - FThrow, FS, NT, NS, DC, US, X, j.NSSSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    AP Gain: 155+ *AP will increase based on which character is thrown and how much meter they have at the time.*



    Stage Specific Combos:
    Stages with invisible walls (ex. second phase of Dojo after walls are kicked down, first phase of Invasion on the flying platforms, second phase of Stowaways on the tethered cargo) cause a very interesting float effect after Single Hand Cut Combo that allows for a drastic increase in AP gained per combo for little to no effort.

    Leaping Launcher Cut Extended Combo (At Invisible Wall)- FS, NSSSS, US, X, j.NSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    AP Gain: 130

    Single Hand Cut Extended Combo (At Invisible Wall)- NSSSS, US, X, j.NSSSSS
    *Can substitute last square for a triangle for same AP gain.*
    AP Gain: 145
    P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
  • AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
    Super Combos and Setups:

    1. Forward Square combos into Level 1 and 2.

    2. Counter combos into Level 1 and 2.

    3. Neutral Square x 4 on a stage with invisible walls that causes float combos into Level 1 and 2. Example stages: Dojo Phase 2, Invasion Phase 1, Stowaways Phase 2

    4. Forward throw combos into Level 2.

    5. Forward throw and then forward Square combos into Level 1.

    6. Down Circle combos into Level 2. Very easy confirm, can do it right out of BnB.

    7. Air forward Circle combos into Level 1 and 2 assuming you are close enough to the ground to land before they recover.

    8. Air down Triangle combos into Level 2.

    9. Down Triangle combos into Level 2.

    10. Up Square combos into Level 2.

    11. Up Triangle combos into Level 2.

    12. Back Square with Square followup combos into Level 2.

    13. Air forward Square combos into Level 2 assuming you are close enough to the ground to land before they recover. In my opinion the hardest confirm Raiden has. The spacing to hit a grounded opponent with j.FS is unnatural and the window to super is quite small. Potentially a clutch move offline, would suggest avoiding online.

    I would also like to give credit where credit is due to PlayStation All-Stars Wiki for the amazing button icons and basic moveset overview. Expect to see 1v1, 2v2, and FFA tactics along with whatever else I can think of to add.

    Let's get the Raiden discussions started!
    P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
  • pourvoirpourvoir Joined: Posts: 11
    F.1 > 2 > 1 > D.3 > U.1 > X > 1 x 5
    AP: 155

    You can also open this up with F.grab or D.2(air)

    This is his standard BnB
  • AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
    Yup! I will be adding it (along with many other things) as the days progress. It was just getting late so I had to stop yesterday. :)
    P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
  • BinksBinks Joined: Posts: 25
    I'm only gettting 135 AP for the standard BnB am I doing something wrong? It's still level 1 which is huge to me.
  • AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
    I'm only gettting 135 AP for the standard BnB am I doing something wrong? It's still level 1 which is huge to me.

    The link for FS to NT is pretty tight, but it will combo giving you the full 155 AP. Set the dummy in practice to block after first hit and test your FS to NT timing until you can get it to combo successfully. :)
    P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
  • BinksBinks Joined: Posts: 25
    I did, I get the full combo. I'm just getting 135 ap instead :O
  • AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
    If you're only getting 135 AP you are missing the link between FS and NT as previously stated.
    P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
  • BinksBinks Joined: Posts: 25
    If you're only getting 135 AP you are missing the link between FS and NT as previously stated.


    Oh wow you're right. I didn't realize it was a link. I'm having a hard time landing this. I didn't even realize it. BLEH I've been using a ps3 controller so I can't double tap it :(
  • BinksBinks Joined: Posts: 25
    OMG GOT IT! :D :D :D :D :D
  • AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
    Gratz! It really is a useful tool to have in your arsenal. Get it off and start that Parry into Lv1 goodness. :D
    P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
  • BinksBinks Joined: Posts: 25
    I still haven't done it in a match. Every time I go for it someone else hits me out of it.
  • AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
    Yeah FFA is a little hectic, I don't particularly think it's where the game shines at all. In FFA situations I usually go for shorter quicker combos like Leaping Launcher Cut and see if I can't snag a second person into some smaller combos as well for faster AP gain. I also like to end most air combos with Triangle over Square as it can hit a secondary (or maybe even tertiary) approaching enemy yielding some free AP, not to mention even if it only hits one person you still build the same amount as just ending with Square.
    P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
  • BinksBinks Joined: Posts: 25
    Yeah I mainly use Leaping Launcher Cut. It just seems way more practical even in 2v2 games.
  • deathwish305deathwish305 Joined: Posts: 54
    the last hit of the square string in the air hits more vertical vs the neutral triangle. i find that i hit with the square more than the triangle, but yea good stuff i guess with the idea of you might be hitting two or more ppl.

    off of a counter do the same combo but after the teleport move into launcher just do neutral triangle in the air so it can give you 155 ap, if you don't and you do the normal square you are going to reach the "limit" and the AIS or w/e is going to blow the opponent away. the first square slash gives you 5ap (135ap total) vs the neutral triangle which gives you 30ap (155ap).

    remember off of a counter only since the counter gives you some ap in the beginning.
  • AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
    I'll make sure to get that added deathwish, thanks! This weekend is a very busy one with NEC happening so I won't be adding much over the weekend. But I do intend to add strategies for all game modes along with Raiden's common super set-ups (of which he has a shit ton so expect them soon)!

    If you guys feel there's something that should definitely be added that hasn't yet definitely post it up, I'll make sure to get everything up at one point or another. Thanks!
    P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
  • deathwish305deathwish305 Joined: Posts: 54
    awesome and yea no problem, just something i noticed. i'm going to copy n paste something i put in another topic on how to FIGHT raidens, altho us raiden players are more aware of when he is or isn't safe, some ppl might benefit. i wrote this in a perspective on how to deal with raiden and what or what not to punish.

    Dealing with Raiden's "unstoppable pressure" or w/e is very easy you just have to look past all the flashy swings and know what you can punish. just sit back block and grab or punish what i am going to tell you.

    his neutral square string is super unsafe, especially the last hit, so just grab or hit him if a raiden throws that out there. eventually smarter raidens will mix it up by NOT throwing out the last hit of the square string, but you can punish that too, for now i haven't really seen anybody do anything out of the norm so just block and punish.

    if an idiot raiden does that half screen dash and you happen to block it, proceed to putting down that book you are reading so you can punish, because he's so unsafe.

    if he HITS you with that (you will do that semi crumple, the one that you SIT DOWN), just hold block, chances are if he's a scrub raiden (doing that full screen dash on the ground indicates that he's not that good of a player), he will try to hit you, just hold block he can't combo into that. if he grabs, jump. point is you are safe if he hits you with the full screen dash ON THE GROUND. remember DO NOT try to get up and hit raiden, you WILL LOSE! he will beat you out, however if you hold block you will be fine (and remember PUNISH after he does square string).

    if he does his full screen dash very low to the ground forget about it, he is safe because he cuts all the lag out when he touches the ground. so if you are hit you gave him 155 ap. if you block it he can keep up the pressure no problem, but again, watch out cuz if you block w/e he is going to do you can most likely punish it.

    his dive kick is unsafe by a frame or two i suspect. online my friend tried to throw me right after blocking the dive kick, i could tech the throw. however OFFLINE i could not and his throw beat out mine. in other words dive kick is probably -1 or -2, regardless it is unsafe. just block and throw, if they try to roll they will also be thrown. i think you can also punish by hitting.

    the only thing "unfair" about raiden is just what killey said, how easy it is for him to hit somebody with his lvl 1 guaranteed. its fudging ridiculous. his lvl 2 is also awesome, basically a better version of E. Cole, since he can get the the first 3 or 2 kills and then more after they respawn.

    good luck. and guys it IS a fighting game, they're going to be bad and good characters. we need more time to see how it plays out.
  • AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
    Updated with Super Combos. From what I can find there are 13 confirms into guaranteed kills assuming correct execution and minimal lag. Anyone find any I missed?
    P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
  • spade96spade96 Joined: Posts: 44
    I am loving this character and loving this thread! I started Raiden about an hour ago and I'm able to get most of these combos down really well! But for some reason, I can't get the FS NT link very often :( This seems like its very important if you can get 155 AP off a forward throw. I can probably get the link about 1/5 times. Any tips for execution? Is this even a practical combo for an online setting given how tight the timing is?

    EDIT: Scratch that, it's closer to 1/10 times >:0
    PSN: CaptainQueso
    XBL: DrewDog1313
  • AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
    Hey spade, thanks for the kind words! :D

    As for the link, it is definitely practical online in a 2v2 setting, I would avoid it in FFA though unless you're sure you can finish it before someone comes over to bother you. When I play 2's with my partner I like to generally let them know when I'm doing this combo and they kind of goal-keep the other player for me, which is the same strategy we use when setting up for kills.

    For an execution tip I would say be very generous with how many times you mash that Triangle button after the forward Square. While it is a link, links in this game are not as tight and unforgiving as they are in traditional style fighters. Once you see the NT move start up, you have plenty of time to stop pressing Triangle and press NS. So don't be afraid to hit that Triangle button a few extra times until you get your timing down.

    Also as a last little tip, there are 2 versions of the Counter BnB and the second version eliminates the FS to NT link but still generates 155 AP. If you don't feel confident hitting the link online, this is a great way to build AP assuming you are comfortable with Counter reads!

    Hope this all helps!
    P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
  • deathwish305deathwish305 Joined: Posts: 54
    haha yea that's no problem, remember the more you practice the more likely you will be able to do it. and do be ashamed to press the NT more than once, i literally mash mine when i REALLY want to get it, but with time you get used to it more n more.
  • FerocityFerocity Starting from scratch... Joined: Posts: 7
    I think I just found a combo while messing around in the lab. Take a look at it.

    Dive Kick Combo 2: j.FT (real low to the ground), DC, US, X, j.NSSSSS
    AP Gain: 140

    Just like his other combos you can substitute the last square in the combo for a triangle for same AP gain. Or do an UT for 10 less AP. Same goes for ending it with a dive kick for more style, plus you land on the ground well before them. This can be performed midscreen, corner or anywhere really.

    It seems to be a situational combo, good for empty jump in's and other tricks. I've landed it in some matches a few times.

    *On another note, after doing Raiden's j.FC you can do his j.FT (dive kick) to make it a little safer. Travel more distance. Dodge opponents attacks. Or even just keep them on their toes. You could also sub out the j.FT for other moves like j.DS to further keep them guessing.

    I'll be looking into some more stuff, will post if I find anything note worthy.
  • AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
    Good find, it definitely works, I'll get it added.
    P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
  • AntiquarianAntiquarian Joined: Posts: 16
    SuperBot Looking Into Ranked 1v1 & Timer For Stock/Kill, Focus On “Balancing” Drake, Raiden, Kratos


    During UltraChen's "Almost Adequate Adventures" Clockw0rk mentioned something along the lines of Raiden's forward square shouldn't connect after forward throw. I'm also wondering if they will leave FS into Lv1 in tact or not after the balance changes. What do you guys feel is too strong about Raiden? What balance changes would you like to see done to the game in general?
    P4: Mitsuru / BB: Hazama, Terumi / GG: Slayer / JJASB: Y.Kira / AH3: Weiß / VSav: Jedah / CC: Celia II / SG: Squigly, Parasoul
  • Phillpro1Phillpro1 Joined: Posts: 3,041
    We got infinites!!!
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/Philltastic1
    PSN: I_Love_New_York
    MvC3: Zero/Ammy/Phoenix
    Morrigan/Doom/Ammy (bloom)
  • BlackLightAttackBlackLightAttack Joined: Posts: 11
    SuperBot Looking Into Ranked 1v1 & Timer For Stock/Kill, Focus On “Balancing” Drake, Raiden, Kratos


    During UltraChen's "Almost Adequate Adventures" Clockw0rk mentioned something along the lines of Raiden's forward square shouldn't connect after forward throw. I'm also wondering if they will leave FS into Lv1 in tact or not after the balance changes. What do you guys feel is too strong about Raiden? What balance changes would you like to see done to the game in general?

    Allowing him to follow up with anything after a forward throw is just absolutely idiotic. I have no idea who looked at that and thought it was a good idea. No one should be able to 100% land a super on a throw.
  • AJSmith325AJSmith325 Joined: Posts: 220
    false info

    you can tech the throw. Not an infinite
  • deathwish305deathwish305 Joined: Posts: 54
    lmao ok i guess that answers that, still hard to tech online doe...i think xD
  • shin kaishin kai Joined: Posts: 70
    I'm sorry for the beginner question but how does one tech in this game? I had just gotten this game and I'm still picking up the basics with Raiden against other characters.
  • ShottanuhmisShottanuhmis Joined: Posts: 337
    I love playing raiden pretty much off any touch its 150 AP and counter / grab mixups punish rollers what more is there to need. I was only wondering if there where any more advanced techs with him. On the side I've been playing dante to help my friend out I see a lot of advanced tactics. How after are you guys using like DT?
  • The MartianThe Martian G.O.L.D. Joined: Posts: 12,130
    Is it just me or is Raiden top tier? His pressure is just incredible and he has like, the best normals.
    "You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you."
  • hypp0crithypp0crit Joined: Posts: 23
    I'm sorry for the beginner question but how does one tech in this game? I had just gotten this game and I'm still picking up the basics with Raiden against other characters.

    You tech throws by throwing at the same time.
  • ShottanuhmisShottanuhmis Joined: Posts: 337
    I tried teching it with my friend but it never really happened what's the timing ?
  • ShottanuhmisShottanuhmis Joined: Posts: 337
    The throw nerf really hurt him now his mixups can really just be blocked.
  • The MartianThe Martian G.O.L.D. Joined: Posts: 12,130
    The throw nerf really hurt him now his mixups can really just be blocked.
    There was a patch?
    "You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you."
  • ShottanuhmisShottanuhmis Joined: Posts: 337
    There was a patch?

    Oh yes there was he got beat with the nerf stick the patch basically said no more full combos off throws the problem with this is now air camping has no risks at all since all of his combos require the opponent to be grounded.
  • The MartianThe Martian G.O.L.D. Joined: Posts: 12,130
    Oh yes there was he got beat with the nerf stick the patch basically said no more full combos off throws the problem with this is now air camping has no risks at all since all of his combos require the opponent to be grounded.
    Forreal? Jesus.

    The line between maining Dante and Raiden was thin for me, but now it seems like I'll be heading over to the Dante thread...a lot of my game was combo-ing off of throws. And now that his mixups are fucked up I see little next to no point.
    "You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you."
  • FoolinfectionFoolinfection Big fish in a little pond 4 LIFE Joined: Posts: 2,151
    You're acting like that throw was all Raiden had. lol
    It's not like every other character in the game can get full combos,let alone AP burst combos off of a throw like he could.
    Welcome to the internet. God help you if you have an opinion.

    I should start keeping written letters in sealed envelopes when I go to tournaments. If i get bodied, I give them one, and when they open it up it says "fuk u"

  • ShottanuhmisShottanuhmis Joined: Posts: 337
    You're acting like that throw was all Raiden had. lol
    It's not like every other character in the game can get full combos,let alone AP burst combos off of a throw like he could.

    The problem is this raiden has mostly a ground based game play if he gets air camped he has zero options. He can hit them with his f+circle sure. But it won't hit confirm into a super or monster damage. Basically you have to be playing very bad players if they want to contest him on the ground. Meanwhile you have dante who can have zero meter and still empty cancel into a super is it the easiest thing in the world no but it can be done. At least before when people air camptg like crazy it had risks that when they land they can get grabbed and they can die. Now your in a situation where you have to build a level 2 to kill someone. In a 1v1 situation ftw your screwed. Not to mention that evil cole can camp the mess out of you and then super punch right through your attack. At this point your like parry ? Wrong if he has a bar he can super you for free.
  • FoolinfectionFoolinfection Big fish in a little pond 4 LIFE Joined: Posts: 2,151
    The problem is this raiden has mostly a ground based game play if he gets air camped he has zero options. He can hit them with his f+circle sure. But it won't hit confirm into a super or monster damage. Basically you have to be playing very bad players if they want to contest him on the ground. Meanwhile you have dante who can have zero meter and still empty cancel into a super is it the easiest thing in the world no but it can be done. At least before when people air camptg like crazy it had risks that when they land they can get grabbed and they can die. Now your in a situation where you have to build a level 2 to kill someone. In a 1v1 situation ftw your screwed. Not to mention that evil cole can camp the mess out of you and then super punch right through your attack. At this point your like parry ? Wrong if he has a bar he can super you for free.

    Good. Sounds like a good chunk of the rest of the cast.

    But,Raiden is now a high risk/high reward character like he should have been in the first place. He's not a completely useless character just because his F.throw is changed. To me,Raiden is now a character that has to patiently pick his moments. That parry has it's use in setting up mind games and can still net you a level 1. Raiden can still build decent meter,especially since his combos aren't really anything spectacular to input. No offense,but it just sounds like some of you guys are just mad now that his match ups have gotten only slightly more difficult. A lot of Raiden players seemed to base their whole game around that throw >combo/level 1 instead of figuring out his yomi and safe set ups. And I mean a character is gonna have bad match ups no matter what. That's FGs for ya.
    Welcome to the internet. God help you if you have an opinion.

    I should start keeping written letters in sealed envelopes when I go to tournaments. If i get bodied, I give them one, and when they open it up it says "fuk u"

  • ShottanuhmisShottanuhmis Joined: Posts: 337
    Good. Sounds like a good chunk of the rest of the cast.

    But,Raiden is now a high risk/high reward character like he should have been in the first place. He's not a completely useless character just because his F.throw is changed. To me,Raiden is now a character that has to patiently pick his moments. That parry has it's use in setting up mind games and can still net you a level 1. Raiden can still build decent meter,especially since his combos aren't really anything spectacular to input. No offense,but it just sounds like some of you guys are just mad now that his match ups have gotten only slightly more difficult. A lot of Raiden players seemed to base their whole game around that throw >combo/level 1 instead of figuring out his yomi and safe set ups. And I mean a character is gonna have bad match ups no matter what. That's FGs for ya.

    I hear what your saying about bad matchups but this is absurd he is getting abused. Now in 2v2 he still has a ton of options but don't sit here and tell me that his throw combo did not drastically hurt him. Raiden is not scrub kratos that literally has instant gap closers for air and ground. What I'm trying to point out is if his major gap closer is now pretty useless because it won't net him a combo on a airborn opponent and pushes then a safe distance away. Potentially speaking a cleaver person can dodge it completely. Also tossing out a level 2 because you have no safe method Anymore is stupid. It's not like prapras skateboard good any time. I've seen sweet tooth players bomb camp literally place a bomb down jump and down box over there bomb an entire game. Even if you hit them you eating the bomb and on hit they get a guaranteed level 1. If you want to be ballsy might as well block everything he does because who cares if you get grabbed you lose what 30 AP? The threat is completely gone. If that air meat cleaver touches you guaranteed level 1. So this simple strategy negates your entire move set. Also off parrying a attack in the air you get nothing and they still get AP. what type of bs is that.
  • FoolinfectionFoolinfection Big fish in a little pond 4 LIFE Joined: Posts: 2,151
    I hear what your saying about bad matchups but this is absurd he is getting abused. Now in 2v2 he still has a ton of options but don't sit here and tell me that his throw combo did not drastically hurt him. Raiden is not scrub kratos that literally has instant gap closers for air and ground. What I'm trying to point out is if his major gap closer is now pretty useless because it won't net him a combo on a airborn opponent and pushes then a safe distance away. Potentially speaking a cleaver person can dodge it completely. Also tossing out a level 2 because you have no safe method Anymore is stupid. It's not like prapras skateboard good any time. I've seen sweet tooth players bomb camp literally place a bomb down jump and down box over there bomb an entire game. Even if you hit them you eating the bomb and on hit they get a guaranteed level 1. If you want to be ballsy might as well block everything he does because who cares if you get grabbed you lose what 30 AP? The threat is completely gone. If that air meat cleaver touches you guaranteed level 1. So this simple strategy negates your entire move set. Also off parrying a attack in the air you get nothing and they still get AP. what type of bs is that.


    This is why nobody needed to base their game around that throw. A lot of Raiden players still aren't utilizing his tools. All you have to do with Raiden is get in once. ONCE to start his pressure and mix up game. He still has several ways to crumple an opponent into a combo. The designers wouldn't have just given him a bunch of other tools if Raiden was supposed to be played as simple as throw into whatever. Superbot even said that the grab into level 1 set up was a mistake. And I can't believe you're comparing Raiden's level 2 to Parappa's. Parappa's can be dodged and counter supered and it'll only net like 1 kill each for however many characters are on screen. Raiden's level 2,even if you miss the initial freeze at the start you can just keep pressing circle to keep sending them out,the super even lasts long enough to tag them again after they respawn. So,even if someone tried to counter super Raiden in that state they'll just eat another shockwave and be frozen and thus killed again. If you're constantly getting zoned by people then learn their patterns and make reads on them. No one zoning character in this game is impossible to get around.
    Welcome to the internet. God help you if you have an opinion.

    I should start keeping written letters in sealed envelopes when I go to tournaments. If i get bodied, I give them one, and when they open it up it says "fuk u"

  • ShottanuhmisShottanuhmis Joined: Posts: 337
    This is why nobody needed to base their game around that throw. A lot of Raiden players still aren't utilizing his tools. All you have to do with Raiden is get in once. ONCE to start his pressure and mix up game. He still has several ways to crumple an opponent into a combo. The designers wouldn't have just given him a bunch of other tools if Raiden was supposed to be played as simple as throw into whatever. Superbot even said that the grab into level 1 set up was a mistake. And I can't believe you're comparing Raiden's level 2 to Parappa's. Parappa's can be dodged and counter supered and it'll only net like 1 kill each for however many characters are on screen. Raiden's level 2,even if you miss the initial freeze at the start you can just keep pressing circle to keep sending them out,the super even lasts long enough to tag them again after they respawn. So,even if someone tried to counter super Raiden in that state they'll just eat another shockwave and be frozen and thus killed again. If you're constantly getting zoned by people then learn their patterns and make reads on them. No one zoning character in this game is impossible to get around.
    Let's look at this a different way. The reason why Raiden was so good before was because he had a million ways to combo into his lvl1 that where all extremely practical. So if you where to roll or throw out a attack obviously the punish would be enormous if you where to camp and slightly mis spaced. The grab would ensure the kill or AP. His game was never solely about the grab but it kept people honest. I would give up 1 hit confirm for the throw combo back. Next he wasn't the only person could could combo off his throw. I understand why raiden gets all the hate dante gets all the respect because of empty box cancel. However this nerf directly took 1/2 of his pressure game away fact. His tools get out spaced by projectiles. So you have to gap close and get strategic get ins. But wait forget the most rape hard raiden button the block ? Lol there is no reason not to block if you land then safely jump away and repeat so what if he chases you. None of his ground options beat block and if you tell him his unblockable I'm going up say your going to have eaten 5 fireballs before it even releases.
  • RavenDSkullRavenDSkull Lost between choices. Joined: Posts: 34
    Just a thought: isn't Raiden supposed to be a rushdown character?

    IMHO, a rushdown character with a KC of a throw is much like a AE character that can combo ultra of a throw anywhere on screen. It's just too strong.

    And about Dante. He doesn't have the get in options Raiden has. Seriously, Dante has to be so on point, and even so, he's still worse all around then other close combat characters.

    Again, IMHO. Not trying to say I can't be wrong.


    Sent from my Mind using my Fingers
    AE2012: Sagat / Yun
    PAS: Dante

    Repping Brasil here.
  • FoolinfectionFoolinfection Big fish in a little pond 4 LIFE Joined: Posts: 2,151
    No body else in this game could combo off of a throw to the same extent that Raiden could. And all the other character's that can level 1 off a throw do it no where near as brain dead as it was with Raiden. You're basically complaining about having to rushdown with a rushdown character now. And Raiden still has several ways to combo into his level one. Technically he still has all the same ways he did before. He just doesn't have the throw set up.
    Welcome to the internet. God help you if you have an opinion.

    I should start keeping written letters in sealed envelopes when I go to tournaments. If i get bodied, I give them one, and when they open it up it says "fuk u"

  • ShottanuhmisShottanuhmis Joined: Posts: 337
    L
    No body else in this game could combo off of a throw to the same extent that Raiden could. And all the other character's that can level 1 off a throw do it no where near as brain dead as it was with Raiden. You're basically complaining about having to rushdown with a rushdown character now. And Raiden still has several ways to combo into his level one. Technically he still has all the same ways he did before. He just doesn't have the throw set up.
    The throw is what made his rushdown options scary. If your playing people that don't block effectively or don't camp well lol Raiden is exactly the same straight busted. Also I've seen some people struggle to combo off the throw lol. Quote "the link was so tight" lol . So it was not even being utilized by everyone really. Also in a way it was like a balance for him having no projectiles. Even dante has like 2 projectiles. Also to truly understand this short coming you can't play raiden vs raiden you need to play like evil cole vs raiden I will fight any raiden that wants to test it out. Is it impossible no but it is 97% harder due to these nerfs. I really would like to play fool infection
  • FoolinfectionFoolinfection Big fish in a little pond 4 LIFE Joined: Posts: 2,151
    L
    The throw is what made his rushdown options scary. If your playing people that don't block effectively or don't camp well lol Raiden is exactly the same straight busted.


    Saying a character is just as broken against people that don't know what they're doing/suck. Great logic. I'm just going to stop reading right there now.
    Welcome to the internet. God help you if you have an opinion.

    I should start keeping written letters in sealed envelopes when I go to tournaments. If i get bodied, I give them one, and when they open it up it says "fuk u"

  • RavenDSkullRavenDSkull Lost between choices. Joined: Posts: 34
    Seriously, if Dante is supposed to be on the same level as Raiden because of those projectiles, they need to get buffed. 2 or j.2 give very little AP and don't have any hitstun. d.3 or jd.3 are good, but have a slow start up, so they can be avoided or stuffed easily. I really have no idea how they help to keep the pressure on.

    By the way, I don't think E.Cole is balanced at all. He's probably the only one in the game right now that should get a nerf (even though he has bad MUs - Ratchet, beats him in zoning). Using him as an example of a bad MU is complicated, by that logic.

    A rushdown character should have to get in carefully and, whenever blocked succesfully, be able to apply pressure, not have a near certain kill. Otherwise, how would a balanced character respond to that? Running away forever?
    AE2012: Sagat / Yun
    PAS: Dante

    Repping Brasil here.
  • ShottanuhmisShottanuhmis Joined: Posts: 337
    Seriously, if Dante is supposed to be on the same level as Raiden because of those projectiles, they need to get buffed. 2 or j.2 give very little AP and don't have any hitstun. d.3 or jd.3 are good, but have a slow start up, so they can be avoided or stuffed easily. I really have no idea how they help to keep the pressure on.

    By the way, I don't think E.Cole is balanced at all. He's probably the only one in the game right now that should get a nerf (even though he has bad MUs - Ratchet, beats him in zoning). Using him as an example of a bad MU is complicated, by that logic.

    A rushdown character should have to get in carefully and, whenever blocked succesfully, be able to apply pressure, not have a near certain kill. Otherwise, how would a balanced character respond to that? Running away forever?

    I agree but at the same time. Some characters are just better than others I think that they should have held out on the massive nerf stick till at least all the characters are released. No one knows the highest level a character is going to be played until the game has been out for awhile. Who knows people may discover some unavoidable death combo tech. As for raiden vs Dante I would say its a even match depending on level of gameplay of both people. One counter successful counter dante kills you from zero AP. Raiden would need at least 2 combos 1 to get the meter one for the kill. As for evil cole -__- the man needs a nerf.
  • RavenDSkullRavenDSkull Lost between choices. Joined: Posts: 34
    I agree but at the same time. Some characters are just better than others I think that they should have held out on the massive nerf stick till at least all the characters are released. No one knows the highest level a character is going to be played until the game has been out for awhile. Who knows people may discover some unavoidable death combo tech. As for raiden vs Dante I would say its a even match depending on level of gameplay of both people. One counter successful counter dante kills you from zero AP. Raiden would need at least 2 combos 1 to get the meter one for the kill. As for evil cole -__- the man needs a nerf.

    Well, there's a lot of tech already out for Dante. None that can make him approach faster or remain safer. People have come with ways to capitalize on his every move (such as canceling his 1 chain in d.1 for a little safety on block, and combos out of jd.3) , but his data remains: he's still outclassed in rushdown by Raiden. So yeah, there are characters that are still being discovered, but NOTHING points to a better direction with Dante. He's just a lower-class rushdown character that requires more technical knowledge and better execution while giving less than other less execution-heavy characters.

    As for the nerf, I've seen Raiden struggling more on some MUs now. I STILL think that the possibility to KC out of a throw is waaaay too strong on a rushdown character. On the other hand, I've seen people argue that it could be left some opportunity to combo of said throw. I think that would be okay. But a KC? No way.

    About the Raiden v. Dante MU. I'd say is 5-5, or a little better for Raiden. Yes, if Dante hits Raiden on the floor (and why are you on the floor in the first place), isn't countered (which can be baited) and don't mess up, he can get a kill. Dante does have his air dash and counter, but Raiden has a counter too, a divekick and that jf.3, which covers a lot of ground if needed to escape. The real turn point here is safety. As long as we're talking about blocking, all Raiden has to do is block to either jump or dodge back to a neutral state. Dante? Not so much. He'd still have Raiden on top of him. Raiden's a lot safer than Dante approaching. And that for me puts him in an advantage in this MU.

    And yeah... E.Cole needs a slight nerf. Not a huge one too.
    AE2012: Sagat / Yun
    PAS: Dante

    Repping Brasil here.
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