I'm green to fighters and am confused about inputs.

ModelHXModelHX Joined: Posts: 6
I just read through the Newbie Saikyo Dojo thread on execution so I didn't post something that's in the FAQ, and it's helpful, but it doesn't answer something even more basic I'm confused about. I'm completely new to playing fighters, but I've watched a ton of tournament stuff, and it looks like fun (not that I'm deluding myself into thinking I'm going to be the next Daigo). I picked up a cheap Hori EX2 off Craigslist (didn't want to put too much money into something that might be unfun) and am playing SSF4AE. Right now, I'm just trying out characters in training mode and trial, trying to find ones I like, and I've been messing around with Guile and his Ultra 1. After failing to make it come out right for ages, I got it right randomly. I looked at my input for it and saw that there were extra directions in the command. I can do it pretty easily now, but my input looks like:

Charge downback, downforward, down, downback, down, downforward, forward, upforward, 3K.

I assumed the input had to be (based on the icon) strictly:

Charge downback, downforward, down, downback, upforward, 3K.

This just looks insane to me that I can input all those extra directions in the command and it still comes out. What's going on here? Is this just part of that weird icon in the command list for his Ultra 1 and that means it's okay to do it this way, or is this something inherent to the mechanics of the game? If it's the latter, to what kinds of commands does this extend?

Comments

  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭✭
    The actual motion is just:

    Charge :b: :f: :b: :f: :3p:

    But what you're seeing is something called input leniency. Basically, the game is willing to ignore those extra inputs, as long as you hit the right amounts within a short period of time, it knows you're trying to do the ultra motion, and so it comes out when you do it. It's normal.

    This is also why you can very easily mash out dragon punches by flailing the stick around and mashing on inputs. The input shortcuts, combined with input leniency, makes it extremely easy to do uppercuts, even sometimes on accident.

    It looks like you're dragging your hand down while you're doing the motion. This is pretty common for new players who aren't used to using an arcade stick. Try to keep the stick higher while moving back and forth in order to avoid making unnecessary down inputs. Don't curl your fingers as much, and let your thumb do some of the work.
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭
    Guile U1 does NOT have that motion, eltrouble.

    But the general gist is correct anyways. SF has a lot of input leniency, so you can do pretty much whatever and your moves will still come out.
    Eg the Shoryuken motion is shown as :f::d::df: , but the way it's actually coded is "<any forward> <any down> <any forward>", so :df::db::uf: is also going to work and of course you can traverse whatever other motion as long as it doesn't overlap with other inputs, so :df::db::d::df::f::uf: is gonna give you a Shoryu (provided you do it fast enough, so you don't end up jumping).

    For Guiles U1, the command list shows [:db:]:df::db::uf:, but you have a LOT of different options to input this - don't know the code here, but I know that the :uf: is actually <any up>, so what a lot of people do to make the motion less edgy is charging downback and rolling a 270 motion from forward to upback; [:db:]:f::df::d::db::b::ub: - this feels more fluent and is easier to do for many.

    http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2010/jan/11/understanding-input-leniency-street-fighter-4/ This has a bit more.
    Why.
  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802
    OK, you're on a stick, yes? EX2 has a square gate. Easy...

    start on the :db: corner...
    charge there...

    Then while holding down, glide the stick to the :df: corner, then immediately back to the :db: corner, using the bottom of the resistor plate as your guide, and use the back of the resistor plate to guide the stick to :ub: and hit :3k:

    In other words, think about it as just sliding the stick from the :db: corner to the :df: corner: to the :db: corner, and then to the :ub: corner.
    PSN: M1X4H < click it!
  • ModelHXModelHX Joined: Posts: 6
    Thank you for the help!

    Does the input leniency mean I have to be more careful on fireball inputs, since if I mess it up at all it comes out as a DP? I've noticed that usually if I fail a double-fireball input, it usually fails as a DP - I'm assuming this is due to that (or, more likely, I'm not hitting the second down motion and going back to downforward. Also, I'm holding the stick with my thumb, my index, and my middle finger, with my thumb at 4:00 and my other two at 10:00. I read somewhere "Grab the stick however you like. Does this feel natural? Good. You're probably fine." I don't know if this is an exception to that. At any rate, thank you guys a bunch for the tips and the link!
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭
    Does the input leniency mean I have to be more careful on fireball inputs, since if I mess it up at all it comes out as a DP?
    Sorta, yes. The bigger issue here however is the input buffer (how long inputs are stored) - this is most prominent for walkup fireballs, as pressing :f:, then :qcf: is read by the game engine as :f::d::df:, "Ah SRK!" and the last :f:is then just ignored.
    I've noticed that usually if I fail a double-fireball input, it usually fails as a DP - I'm assuming this is due to that
    Depends on how you fail it.
    - It could be that you ended in DF rather than F (because you pressed the button too early, or because you didn't run the stick there at all) - now if you look at the inputs
    :qcf::d::df: :hp:
    The last 3 inputs are a perfect SRK motion and the former two the game can't do anything with, so it just discards them. This behavior is present in pretty much every single FG.
    - It can also happen that you fail to press the 2nd down; looking at the inputs
    :qcf::df::f::hp:
    The last 3 inputs are fitting the SF4 shortcut for SRK (a forward, a down, a forward) so it does that. In other games what this is read as varies (just a HP, a SRK, or even a fireball because it remembers your first QCF and doesn't have a use for the inputs afterwards).
    Also, I'm holding the stick with my thumb, my index, and my middle finger, with my thumb at 4:00 and my other two at 10:00. I read somewhere "Grab the stick however you like. Does this feel natural? Good. You're probably fine." I don't know if this is an exception to that.
    There are no exceptions to that. If you think it feels natural to use your nose, use your nose. There are probably some holds which are objectively better than others (eg because they allow easier dashing), but that's something you learn bit by bit and will accustom your hand to (eg I slightly adjusted my wineglass hold to be able to exert more force from the left side after I noticed that I had problems doing things from the P1 side, and I recently adjusted it again to be a more loose grip because I tended to use more finger than wrist movement which now isn't possible anymore)
    Why.
  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802
    I use that grip when doing double qcf's from the P1 side.
    I use the wine-glass grip when doing it from the P2 side.
    And I hold it like I'm jerking it off when I play Marvel.
    PSN: M1X4H < click it!
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭✭
    Whoops, I was referring to U2 in my post. My bad. This is what I get for posting while severely medicated :(

    The rest of the post is still applicable though.
  • ModelHXModelHX Joined: Posts: 6
    No problem. Thanks again for the help - it's great to see there are people who answer noob questions; I try to do that myself in games I know a little about.
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