Beating anti-airs

RichHoboRichHobo Joined: Posts: 75
I know the general rule (at least for street fighter) is to never jump, but I was wondering how one gets their jump attack to beat someone else's anti-air. I was also wondering what constitutes a good AA to begin with. I know the standard normals and dps, but it kind of blew my mind when I was playing third strike at an arcade, and someone was consistently beating my dudley's jumping fierce and roundhouse with ken's st. far fierce. I'm not sure if its a good AA or I just wasn't timing my jump-ins correctly.

Comments

  • TNBTNB Bye. Joined: Posts: 1,180
    I'm assuming you're mostly talking about grounded anti airs as opposed to air-to-air moves like Chun's Jump Fierces or stomp.
    Good anti airs are typically fast on startup, have a vertical/diagonal trajectory and have a hitbox that is very far from the character's hittable box. The best AA moves are fully invincible and/or have low recovery in addition to what was mentioned. Some of the best anti airs in existance are Old Ken's, Old Ryus, and Old T. Hawk's SRK moves in St, along with N Ken's light shoryu,which has ridiculously fast startup, recovery, AND has invincible. Worth mentioning also are things like Kyo's down C, which, while not invincible, is really fast and has a good hitbox. Plus it's like 4f. Sakura's Down Hp in SF4 is pretty much Kyo's down C.

    There are also situational anti airs like what you mentioned. That fierce would allow ken to hit you with something and remain grounded. Ken doesn't have an old school stand short or roundhouse kick that would anti air. From the range I'm imagining, you're trying to hit with the tip of a jump in. From this range some shoryus would whiff and so would his MK anti air. HP would keep his hittable box out of the way of the fierce and at the very worst create a trade situation where ken could get a minor spacial advantage. It also builds a good chunk of meter even if it whiffs and certainly if it hits.
    Sf4 is unique for an sf game with it's jump-ins that beat reversal DP's, although this can occur situationally (and with very tight input/spacing) in ST as well. In most other Sf games this isn't the case.

    The rule isn't to never jump. It's to have a reason behind your jump and know when/ when not to jump.
    I play Chun in St. Chun Li can get huge damage off of a legs combo in that if she jumps over a fireball. However depeding on the spacing of the ryu player that can either be an incredibly easy and winnable gambit or one of the worst decisions of the game.
    In general with Dudley vs Ken you don't want to !@# about too much. Ken just has so many things he can do to punish Dudley. Nica K.O has a whole video about it. And jumping in on ken without a good read isn't a good idea. He has a ton of options to deal with that sort of thing.

    I highly suggest you read about Jump ins in Dom 101. Heck read all of those. I believe I did or at least most of them.


    EXTRA:
    In 3rd strike many reversals are not invincible on wakeup nor are as fast as previously nor are they invincible, which means they can beaten by meaty normal moves. Exceptions are things like Ken's 1f HP DP, ex DP's and Akuma's sorta slow but invincible HP dp.
    Skills and attitude prove worth as a player, not the internet.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭✭
    I know the general rule (at least for street fighter) is to never jump, but I was wondering how one gets their jump attack to beat someone else's anti-air. I was also wondering what constitutes a good AA to begin with. I know the standard normals and dps, but it kind of blew my mind when I was playing third strike at an arcade, and someone was consistently beating my dudley's jumping fierce and roundhouse with ken's st. far fierce. I'm not sure if its a good AA or I just wasn't timing my jump-ins correctly.

    A good anti-air is usually a move that has a more extended hit box than the hurt box. It's preferable if it's a pretty fast start-up move, so you have plenty of time to use it in reaction to a jump attack. Each character usually has a variety of anti-air options to cover a variety of ranges. For example, Dhalsim's b+roundhouse is a very good anti-air in almost all situations, but if the opponent is directly above you, it's better to do a b+mp, since it has a higher vertical hit box, and starts up faster.

    In 3s, there's a greater variety of anti-airs you can use due to the parry system, but on the flip side, the parry also allows you to parry anti-air attempts to get your offense going. In your example of Dudley vs. Ken, you could've simply parried the st.fierce and punish, or if they whiff a st.fierce hoping you'd stick out a limb, at least you're right next to Ken, so you can start to go for high/low/throw attacks.
  • RichHoboRichHobo Joined: Posts: 75
    thanks for the feedback. I'll definitely check out domination 101 again and spend time in the lab.
  • mapleleafs791mapleleafs791 Blockstring.com Joined: Posts: 773 ✭✭✭
    Generally the ways you can beat anti airs are as follows (very simplified)

    1. Safe jumps off of knockdowns
    2. Moves that change your jump trajectory and/or timing
    Example if i jump in with a heavy kick vs jump in and do an ex cannon strike at the peak of my jump alot of AA normals timed for the heavy kick jump in will wiff vs the ex strike
    3. Moves with insane hitboxes. first thing that comes to mind is sakuras jump FP, that shit is so much harder to anti air than most other chars jump ins
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  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭
    I know the general rule (at least for street fighter) is to never jump, but I was wondering how one gets their jump attack to beat someone else's anti-air. I was also wondering what constitutes a good AA to begin with. I know the standard normals and dps, but it kind of blew my mind when I was playing third strike at an arcade, and someone was consistently beating my dudley's jumping fierce and roundhouse with ken's st. far fierce. I'm not sure if its a good AA or I just wasn't timing my jump-ins correctly.
    In general, the best timing to beat anti-airs is to do your jump-in early. That gives the opponent less time to put their move out, and stops them from counter-hitting you out of the air.

    Sometimes if you start doing this your opponent can start doing stuff like sweep/cr.mk anti-air, or just crouch and let your move whiff and then punish. There's some back and forth here. Good players will know these mini-games and avoid them by mixing up their anti-airs so that you can still guess right, but you're guessing against 5 different options and your guess probably only beats one of their 5 options.
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  • GordonsBeardGordonsBeard QCF+P Bad Stoned Joined: Posts: 379


    The answer is: stop jumping. You have to set up some safe-jumps so he is unsure if he can get a clean AA off. Perhaps try jumping and parrying his predictable AA one time, making him stagger to push the button so fast when you jump in again.
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