SSF4 AE 2012 Tier List Thread (OP last updated May 2014)

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  • superlollosuperlollo S Tier Joined: Posts: 2,967 ✭✭✭


    I would go as far as to say the only damage problem Yang has ever had is that you have to grind the hell out of your cr.LK combos if you don't want to plink with back/select.

    huh? You can plink c.lk with c.lp, back/select plinking is only needed for jabs
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  • The BreakerThe Breaker reading, lol Joined: Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭
    (because you're linking into cr.LP from cr.LK)
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  • Huggy BearHuggy Bear Scoops Häagen-Dazs® Joined: Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭✭
    Someone tell me why Fei-Long is top tier?

    I'm not contesting it. It's just I'm playing the guy now and it's like...I ain't got SPD's or Dive Kicks. I just got Rekka's. Someone enlighten me?
    Logan / Spencer / Gouki

  • BlueberryBlueberry Joined: Posts: 589 ✭✭
    Eas

    Someone tell me why Fei-Long is top tier?

    I'm not contesting it. It's just I'm playing the guy now and it's like...I ain't got SPD's or Dive Kicks. I just got Rekka's. Someone enlighten me?

    Easy corner carry and can keep you there, decent damage, opens you up with command grab or fast overhead, good normals, a dp...
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Oh Noes! My Character! Joined: Posts: 7,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    rekkas make fei top tier. gives him superior space control since you cant block them on reaction and they cover such a large area in front of him. moving wall

    DWU fucked my bitch
  • cerberusfxcerberusfx Timekeeper Joined: Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    I also think because of the startup rekkas have + range, thus can punish tons of stuff / safe pressure from right distance. Put the rekkas at 12-14F and I dont think you have a top tier fei anymore
    Post edited by cerberusfx on
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  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Oh Noes! My Character! Joined: Posts: 7,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    unfortunately he would suck if that happened without any compensation.

    he has other good tools but they arent that good without such an amazing complimentary tool
    DWU fucked my bitch
  • Huggy BearHuggy Bear Scoops Häagen-Dazs® Joined: Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭✭
    Well. It's good to know a character can be "Up there" without having ridiculous Oki tools that are polluting this game.

    Thanks for the replies.
    Logan / Spencer / Gouki

  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Oh Noes! My Character! Joined: Posts: 7,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I remember watching a team tournament in japan with a Team of yangs....they all got bodied by a vega

    vega isnt a bad character. pretty sure he wins that match. beats top tier fei too FWIW



    DWU fucked my bitch
  • GLoRToRGLoRToR Killer-Bee-Ginner Joined: Posts: 19
    Why are people bitching in the Cammy thread if she's S-Tier according to every top player including jwong?
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Oh Noes! My Character! Joined: Posts: 7,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    a new account to troll cammy players with a cammy avatar. theyll never see it coming.

    goddamned brilliant
    DWU fucked my bitch
  • The BreakerThe Breaker reading, lol Joined: Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭
    every time I got on someone wanted to play with me today and I forgot to write numbers down

    buuut I remember some general figures
    3f cr.LK - can go into 17x/3xx anywhere (mk dp or slashes)
    3f cr.LK - can go into Ultra 1 anywhere (excludes characters that st.lp whiffs on after two hits) for ... um, well, depends if you hit confirmed it. hit confirming generally does yun cmd grab ultra damage (like 300 range), no hit confirm for strait up punish is like 400 something.
    3f cr.LK - can go into hard knockdown anywhere (excludes characters that st.lp whiffs on after two hits) for 15x/26x
    3f cr.LK - can go into 30x/3xx in corner (290s mid screen) with two bars
    4f cr.LP - can go into 21x/3xx anywhere (mk dp or slashes)
    3f cr.LK/ 4f cr.LP - can go into cst.MK punish (cr.LK needs additional cst.LP so kinda specific here) for 14x/25x reset
    6f cr.MK - can go into slash combos described above or whiff punish with cr.mk xx mp palm xx fadc combos for 350-390 (add 10 damage and you basically got your cst.hp punishes)
    command grabs - can go into launcher reset, untechable knockdown, 200/300 cst.hp xx hk rollkicks, 350-390 cr.mk xx palm xx fadc combos, or st.lp, ultra 1 (400ish? iirc)
    st.lk TC still pretty damn good in footsies now that it knocks down (can go into stuff if they're cornered and is only -2 on block - only problem is that it tends to whiff at longer distances)
    ex palm, u1 not too useful but 530ish damage so in the rare cases you punish a bad dp. some characters can be hit by cst.mk, mp palm, hk dp on punishing for a little extra corner damage.
    can combo into u1 against most characters in any situation you can combo into cst.mk, but i forget the numbers here.

    None of these take dive kicks / j.mk / j.hp into the numbers which essentially means Yang is hitting fairly hard with some good execution skills. He generally doesn't hit as hard as Dudley or Viper but his stun values get up there, especially with meter. But most Yang players insist on using cr.LK, cr.LK, cr.LK whatever and that only does 14x (big drop from 17x/21x.) Yes 1f links from cr.LK to cr.LP and Palm FADC cst.LP are hard. Not impossible or even impractical (Sagat and Claw have been working with some important 1f LP links for a while.)

    Yes Yang dive kicks are slower. But you don't need them to approach when you walk that damn fast and they still compliment that walk speed very well. It's true that Yang lacks in cross-ups on some characters but you have a command grab, palm, palm whiff, really good normal frames, cst.MK jump cancelling, dive kick frame advantage (on some characters...lol 6f recovery), safe jumps etc so it's not hard to open people up.

    Random comparisons...
    Seth's EX SPD does 170/200
    cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.MP xx MK Legs does 178/285(?)
    corner extensions go up to like 200ish/300-400ish (depends on character) meterless but Seth doesn't gain much outside of corner pushing for stomps with FADC confirms (FADC punishes and [Tanden Engine] cr.HP xx EX Tanden can get really high though.)
    Yun generally hits just below 200/3xx with standard OS confirms
    230-240/400-500 with dk->cr.mp combos
    generally doesn't get much extra for burning meter in combos outside of low stun character punishes (EX DP -> LP / MP Lunge)
    makes up for this with genei jin (typically goes into 430-450 and whatever kind of oki he wants on a successful counter poke into lp shoulder)
    Yun's command grabs generally do inferior damage to Yang's, but are a hell of a lot easier to land because of his cr.MP cancel

    tl;dr nothing here to suggest Yang sucks. Only that you'll probably have an easier time learning Cammy or something.
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  • The BreakerThe Breaker reading, lol Joined: Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    wow i got a double post

    without clicking twice
    hate
    Post edited by The Breaker on
    "This game is garbage." Why do you play it?
    "Because the other garbage is cold." So you just like garbage.
  • EternalEternal unpleasable perfectionist Joined: Posts: 8,706 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Huggy Bear wrote: »
    Well. It's good to know a character can be "Up there" without having ridiculous Oki tools that are polluting this game. <br />
    <br />

    Thanks for the replies.

    For the most part, Adon, Sagat, and Balrog are pretty legit in terms of their Oki tools and are considered "up there" too.
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  • AmigoOneAmigoOne Joined: Posts: 1,156
    Im calling Yang to be high tier. Or mid high. HE'S GOOD.

    A bit conflicted whether or not if Yun is better than him.
  • HayugeinHayugein Joined: Posts: 16
    AmigoOne wrote: »
    Im calling Yang to be high tier. Or mid high. HE'S GOOD. <br />
    <br />
    A bit conflicted whether or not if Yun is better than him.

    Yun is def better, but i agree, Yang is alot better than people seem to think.
    if you can open your opponent up, its very hard for them to get away, especially if you have meter
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  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Oh Noes! My Character! Joined: Posts: 7,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    yun is for sure better.

    yang is most likely mid or low mid but for different reasons than the usual no damage logic most people go with.

    ive said this before but the bigger issue is punishing and responding to safe-ish (-4 or-5) type moves. the fast buttons usually arent long enough and the long buttons arent fast enough. or the hitbox is too low etc.

    another issue is when characters have waist or chest high normals that out class his low forward. they make the ground game tough and usually snuff dive kicks on the way up and easy AA them on the ground. think bison rh adon rh gief far mp etc
    Post edited by HNIC Mike on
    DWU fucked my bitch
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    Mr.PaVy-RD wrote: »
    I remember watching a team tournament in japan with a Team of yangs....they all got bodied by a vega
    Reiketsu is a bit more than "a vega" :p


    Post edited by Vulpes on
    Why.
  • GLoRToRGLoRToR Killer-Bee-Ginner Joined: Posts: 19
    HNIC Mike wrote: »
    a new account to troll cammy players with a cammy avatar. theyll never see it coming.

    goddamned brilliant

    I'm actually asking this. She's S tier according to this thread and everybody I asked, yet in the cammy forum there is a lot of complaining.
  • Darklightjg1Darklightjg1 Dr. SuessLight Joined: Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    Who doesn't complain about their own character though? They're the ones who play the character all the time so they're gonna run into the most "problems" or "bullshit" their character has to "deal with". Nobody likes to struggle these days. Doesn't always mean the character doesn't have the tools to go even or win the matchup though (which Cammy has in a lot of matches).

    Speaking of which. I think Cammy/Chun is 5-5 instead of 6-4. They have generally the same damage potential toward each other (it's one of the matches where full EX legs hits for Chun for decent damage but Chun also has some decent frame traps and character specific links that work on Cammy for beefier damage as well). And Chun's Ultra 2 is pretty easy to confirm and land in this match (more often than cammy will land her Ultra imo) so there's the 30-50% she has to worry about there.
    -Cammy isn't as hard to keep out as other characters that give Chun problems from the air either imo and probably the biggest threat Cammy has on Chun when she gets in is her EX CS as a safe gamble for one bar that could lead to big damage on the ground (it beats out EX SBK head-on, but leaves Chun in an airborne reset state so she just takes 80 damage and maybe a mixup after).
    -Vs Cammy's pressure, you just have to block a lot and force her to go for grabs. Call the grab and/or knock her all the way back with EX SBK and she can make it a pain for Cammy to open her up.
    -On knock down Cammy gives Chun generally the same problems she gives most characters, but Chun also has a very dangerous crossup and unblockable on Cammy from landing a foward throw (she can dash out of the UB, but not the crossup so she has to guess). I think Chun can escape Cammy's UB setup too if she spots it, but I'm not 100% on that.
    -Cammy has a little more health than Chun, but less stun and the reverse is true from Chun (more stun)
    -Chun can't really over-use FBs when Cammy gets meter but I think she can play around it pretty well as her ground pokes are good enough to control that area. It's not really a match where she needs to zone with them a lot imo.
    She has to guess Anti-airs, but the pay-off for being right is really good compared to most characters who can alter their trajectory from the air.

    I think with with those things in mind she can just as effectively take a round or make a comeback as Cammy can to her. But this is my perspective playing Chun. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing that tips it in Cammy's favor?
    Post edited by Darklightjg1 on

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  • HeavensCloudHeavensCloud Joined: Posts: 304
    I don't think there's any doubt that Yun is better. There was a bit of a debate in AE (I still think Yun was better) but not now.
    HNIC Mike wrote: »
    yun is for sure better.

    yang is most likely mid or low mid but for different reasons than the usual no damage logic most people go with.

    ive said this before but the bigger issue is punishing and responding to safe-ish (-4 or-5) type moves. the fast buttons usually arent long enough and the long buttons arent fast enough. or the hitbox is too low etc.

    another issue is when characters have waist or chest high normals that out class his low forward. they make the ground game tough and usually snuff dive kicks on the way up and easy AA them on the ground. think bison rh adon rh gief far mp etc

    The st.lk nerf really hurt him. The Fei and Abel matches used to be in his favour but now they're pretty rough because he doesn't have a go to footsie button.
  • JulperoJulpero Joined: Posts: 759 ✭✭
    I think that for Chun to be even against Cammy she'd need to be able to anti-air her consistently. Since she really can't do that I think it's impossible for a Chun to win a ft10 against a high level Cammy. Would be cool to see a longer set between Vivitan and Acqua or Banbaban though. The last long set I remember seeing was Sako vs. Haneyama.

    Also since we're talking about which twin is better I'll just a few things why Yun is the better character.

    - Yun has chainable lights. Sure Yang has jab chains but his shorts aren't chainable. With Yun having less pushback and faster chains he's just simply faster close-up making it harder to defend against tick throws and frame traps. So better mix-ups up close.

    - Better hit-boxes and better active frames. I'll just compare a few normals.
    Crouching medium kick: Yun's has a 5 frame start-up and it has 3 active frames. On top of that it has a hit-box that is longer than the hurtbox. Yang's cr. mk is 6 frames start-up and it has 2 active frames. It's hitbox is clearly inside it's hurtbox.

    Far standing medium punch: Yun: 5 frame start-up, 5 active frames special cancelable. Yang: 6 frame start-up (noticed this yesterday. thought it was 5...) and 2 active frames only cancels into the target combo. Yun's hitbox is great by any standards and Yang's is tiny and got nerfed in AE 2012.

    Far light kick: One of Yang's best normals in AE. Had 3 frame frame start-up but got nerfed to 5 frames in 2012. It has 2 active frames. Now Yun's is 4 frames start-up and has 3 active frames. Also Yun's has a better hit-box since the hitbox again reaches outside of the hurtbox whereas Yang's is even.

    - Yun has better ranges on his command throw. Mostly irrelevant since Yang doesn't need to use his command throw in the same way as Yun though.

    - Yun's divekick has better hitboxes so it can be used in oki situations. Also doesn't have recovery like Yang's.

    Now I'm not saying Yang is bad. I think he's great but still high-mid at best. It's just obvious to me which one of the twins had a more solid foundation to survive the nerfs. Like others have said it's not damage that's Yang's problem.
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  • littlescumbaglittlescumbag Joined: Posts: 295
    edited February 2013
    GLoRToR wrote: »
    HNIC Mike wrote: »
    a new account to troll cammy players with a cammy avatar. theyll never see it coming.

    goddamned brilliant

    I'm actually asking this. She's S tier according to this thread and everybody I asked, yet in the cammy forum there is a lot of complaining.
    she is not that strong ! i think akuma is a much stronger charcater than she is ! she has a big problem with graplers and characters that have a great defense ... i was strugling with her against Guile's , Dee Jay's and Balrog's (no need to mention Zangief , T-hawk and Honda,even Hakan can be troublesome with U2)
    i droped cammy and returned back to Ryu,he gives me a more solid well rounded feel !!!

    Post edited by littlescumbag on
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  • HayugeinHayugein Joined: Posts: 16
    edited February 2013
    GLoRToR wrote: »
    HNIC Mike wrote: »
    a new account to troll cammy players with a cammy avatar. theyll never see it coming.

    goddamned brilliant

    I'm actually asking this. She's S tier according to this thread and everybody I asked, yet in the cammy forum there is a lot of complaining.
    she is not that strong ! i think akuma is a much stronger charcater than she is ! she has a big problem with graplers and characters that have a great defense ... i was strugling with her against Guile's , Dee Jay's and Balrog's (no need to mention Zangief , T-hawk and Honda,even Hakan can be troublesome with U2)
    i droped cammy and returned back to Ryu,he gives me a more solid well rounded feel !!!
    you were playing her wrong then! cammy beats grapplers free, maybe not gief but against hawk and hakan you should have no problem
    just because you struggle in a matchup, doesnt make it bad, you just dont know the matchup
    Post edited by Hayugein on
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  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 2,849 ✭✭✭
    Speaking of which. I think Cammy/Chun is 5-5 instead of 6-4. They have generally the same damage potential toward each other (it's one of the matches where full EX legs hits for Chun for decent damage but Chun also has some decent frame traps and character specific links that work on Cammy for beefier damage as well). And Chun's Ultra 2 is pretty easy to confirm and land in this match (more often than cammy will land her Ultra imo) so there's the 30-50% she has to worry about there.
    -Cammy isn't as hard to keep out as other characters that give Chun problems from the air either imo and probably the biggest threat Cammy has on Chun when she gets in is her EX CS as a safe gamble for one bar that could lead to big damage on the ground (it beats out EX SBK head-on, but leaves Chun in an airborne reset state so she just takes 80 damage and maybe a mixup after).
    -Vs Cammy's pressure, you just have to block a lot and force her to go for grabs. Call the grab and/or knock her all the way back with EX SBK and she can make it a pain for Cammy to open her up.
    -On knock down Cammy gives Chun generally the same problems she gives most characters, but Chun also has a very dangerous crossup and unblockable on Cammy from landing a foward throw (she can dash out of the UB, but not the crossup so she has to guess). I think Chun can escape Cammy's UB setup too if she spots it, but I'm not 100% on that.
    -Cammy has a little more health than Chun, but less stun and the reverse is true from Chun (more stun)
    -Chun can't really over-use FBs when Cammy gets meter but I think she can play around it pretty well as her ground pokes are good enough to control that area. It's not really a match where she needs to zone with them a lot imo.
    She has to guess Anti-airs, but the pay-off for being right is really good compared to most characters who can alter their trajectory from the air.

    I think with with those things in mind she can just as effectively take a round or make a comeback as Cammy can to her. But this is my perspective playing Chun. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing that tips it in Cammy's favor?

    Well, both Alioune and Azrael called the match 6-4 cammy's favour.
    This is what Azrael said: "Dive kick. Frame trap hell. She's like Rufus, except harder to hit and much better to look at. While Cannon Spike isn't a wonderful reversal, it's good enough to keep Chun weary on offense. Defensively the best Chun can do is throw EX SBK and hope to god it hits. And hope that she can keep Cammy off her case long enough to actually build meter for it."

    I'm really surprised you say Chun is even with cammy in the dmg department.

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  • m2thebradym2thebrady Joined: Posts: 577
    edited February 2013
    Chun's got a great backdash and SBK is good at messing with wake up dive kick from Cammy. Ex-legs>ultra every match.... She's got combos for damage and plays great in the neutral game with her pokes/footsies... she does pretty well in this match. People been going back and fourth with how to rate this match forever now, it's definitely not set in stone.

    I don't understand the comparison to Rufus. He's much easier to pin down. Because they both don't have an srk?
    Post edited by m2thebrady on
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  • Darklightjg1Darklightjg1 Dr. SuessLight Joined: Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    Well, both Alioune and Azrael called the match 6-4 cammy's favour.
    This is what Azrael said: "Dive kick. Frame trap hell. She's like Rufus, except harder to hit and much better to look at. While Cannon Spike isn't a wonderful reversal, it's good enough to keep Chun weary on offense. Defensively the best Chun can do is throw EX SBK and hope to god it hits. And hope that she can keep Cammy off her case long enough to actually build meter for it."

    I'm really surprised you say Chun is even with cammy in the dmg department.

    Outside of EX CS, her divekick game isn't as threatening as Rufus because without it, it's literally the difference between doing a normal AA and focus (which she'll eat a lot of damage for). Only on knockdown does it present itself as a stronger threat if Chun has no EX to get out. But as mentioned before Chun has an effective crossup game of her own on knockdown (one of the ONLY matchups where Chun can use j. mk as a real threat in addition to j. lk).
    Even EX CS needs to be low or at crossup range in order to not lose out to focus.
    She doesn't get free Ultra's off of meterless Bnbs like Rufus. She also has less health to worry about taking down than vs. Rufus.
    If Chun has EX and Cammy doesn't it'll be hard for her to open Chun up, because she does no safe chip on block (this is actually something Chun has over her in pressure along with overheads) and has to take a risk to try and open her up.

    Cannon spike is like a normal DP, at 100 damage it's not really that threatening without meter to FADC and easier to punish when baited. Also after a forward throw she can't reversal with it vs. Chun's setups. It's a wonderful anti air though and like all invincible reversals you gotta respect it a bit during pressure (but that's not in Cammy's favor without the meter to back it up like I said).

    Damage-wise, yeah I say they have around the same potential for what they attempt (character specifics makes it easier on Cammy than 2/3 of the cast and I don't find her particularly harder to get in on and try to open up than some matches). Only thing is Chun might have to burn an EX Legs at the end to get the damage. To me that's not as big a deal in matchups where EX Legs hits 4 times instead of 3 because the damage is worthwhile, but Chun still has to mind her meter for when she needs EX SBK for breathing room.
    Post edited by Darklightjg1 on

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  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 6,940 ✭✭✭✭
    HNIC Mike wrote: »
    yun is for sure better.

    yang is most likely mid or low mid but for different reasons than the usual no damage logic most people go with.

    ive said this before but the bigger issue is punishing and responding to safe-ish (-4 or-5) type moves. the fast buttons usually arent long enough and the long buttons arent fast enough. or the hitbox is too low etc.

    another issue is when characters have waist or chest high normals that out class his low forward. they make the ground game tough and usually snuff dive kicks on the way up and easy AA them on the ground. think bison rh adon rh gief far mp etc

    yangs problem IS doing not enough damage.

    a lot of matches he used to win before is now even/disadvantage just because of the damage output ratio. for example, sakura, akuma and abel. his character design is a natural counter for those characters but since he can barley damage them even if he gets the hit and momentum, he now loses vs them or goes even at worst.
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  • ugo_2uugo_2u Joined: Posts: 3,584 ✭✭✭
    just quit already
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  • JulperoJulpero Joined: Posts: 759 ✭✭
    Ouroborus wrote: »
    yangs problem IS doing not enough damage.

    a lot of matches he used to win before is now even/disadvantage just because of the damage output ratio. for example, sakura, akuma and abel. his character design is a natural counter for those characters but since he can barley damage them even if he gets the hit and momentum, he now loses vs them or goes even at worst.

    Out of all those characters he's disadvantaged against only one. Sakura. Abel is to me 5-5 and Akuma is 6-4 for Yang. I admit against Sakura the problem is pretty much only damage. Nothing else. Sure her buttons are better but Yang has more options in footsies. The difference in damage output is just too much for it to be even.

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  • AzraelAzrael Epic Calling! Joined: Posts: 3,223 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    It's hard for Chun to go advantage against anyone with a good DP (exceptions - Dan and maybe Oni). It beats most of her offensive options so she's forced to respect it. Cammy's DP is solid enough and with FADC leads to extra damage (DP FADC DP even hurts), so I think she fits the bill of 5-5 at best for Chun. I say this because Chun really is not a zoning character and unless you're more or less perfect at keeping them out they WILL get in and then they're gonna take what they're owed.

    That's the main issue with the Cammy match. She may have to fight to get in but once she gets there she can reduce Chun's life in a hurry, and it's hard for Chun to get her out. EX TKCS forces her not to push any buttons, especially crouching ones. Chun has to hold down-back a lot and prefer to eat a throw than get frame trapped into a big combo.

    Chun does have some combo damage options but if she's going on the offensive then we come back to the first point - have to respect Cammy's DP. Simply getting hit by it puts Chun in the defensive posture she doesn't want to be in - DP FADC has the same outcome with more life lost. The only other way Chun is taking damage in this fight is if Cammy is being impatient and making stupid mistakes she can punish.

    Neutral game is kind of iffy. If Cammy is willing to fight on the ground there are some things she can do. Most of Chun's pokes are one-hit based and Cammy's FA isn't awful. Regardless of crumple she can FA parry her way in through a s.mp or sweep.
    Post edited by Azrael on
    chubbyfingerz:
    There are few characters in this game which everyone wishes they could play but simply can't adapt to. Say, Hakan, for instance. Makoto is chief among them. She's the equivalent of building a racecar and saying "give me 7 gears and NO brakes, no hydraulic steering, no seatbelt or helmet, none of that gay shit, cause I'm going for it with all I got and if I fuck up then fuck it". Cammy is like driving a Lamborghini with autopilot while you listen to One Direction and talk to your girlfriend on the phone "oh wait honey there's a curve coming up let me push a button here.... done. So, then your boss said what? Oh my god, what a bitch she is!"
  • The BreakerThe Breaker reading, lol Joined: Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭
    [173/300] cr.LK, cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.MK xx DP+MK

    [174/294] cr.LK, cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.MK xx QCF+HP xx QCF+HP xx QCF+LP

    [211/335] cr.LP, cst.MP, cr.MK xx DP+MK
    [233/370] cr.LP, cst.MP, cr.MK xx DP+KK

    [214/335] cr.LP, cst.MP, cr.MK xx QCF+HP xx QCF+HP xx QCF+LP
    [278/410] cst.MK, QCB+MP, DP+HK

    [261/410] cst.LP, cst.MK, QCB+MP, DP+HK

    [119/245] cr.LK, cr.LK, fst.LP, cr.HK

    [314/460] cst.MK, QCB+HP, DP+KK
    [308/510] cst.MK, QCB+PP, DP+HK

    [263/450] cr.LK, cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.MK xx QCB+MP xx FADC F, cst.LP, cst.MK, QCB+MP, DP+HK
    [371/550] cr.MK xx QCB+MP xx FADC F, cst.LP, cst.MK, QCB+MP, DP+HK

    [281/410] cr.MK xx QCF+HP xx QCF+HP xx FA LV2, dash forward, HCB+K, cst.HP xx DP+HK

    [250/330] TC3, DP+KK

    [241/340] DK, cr.LP, cst.MP, cr.MK xx DP+MK
    [331/490] DK, cr.LP, cst.MP, cr.MK xx QCB+MP xx FADC F, cst.LP, cst.MK, QCB+MP, DP+HK

    [112/220] HCB+K, cst.LP, fst.LP, cr.HK
    [185/300] HCB+K, cst.MK, DP+HK
    [205/300] HCB+K, cst.HP xx DP+HK

    [130/200] DP+LK xx FADC F, DP+HK

    [394/560] QCB+PP, QCB+MP, DP+KK
    [458/695] FA3, back dash, QCB+PP, QCB+PP, DP+KK

    [411/150] cst.LP, cst.MK dash torward opponent, U1

    [438/100] HCB+K, cst.MK, dash torward opponent, U1

    getting tired of switching between input signals
    wish seth's command grab did 500 stun when i had meter to burn tho
    "This game is garbage." Why do you play it?
    "Because the other garbage is cold." So you just like garbage.
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Oh Noes! My Character! Joined: Posts: 7,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Julpero wrote: »

    Out of all those characters he's disadvantaged against only one. Sakura. Abel is to me 5-5 and Akuma is 6-4 for Yang. I admit against Sakura the problem is pretty much only damage. Nothing else. Sure her buttons are better but Yang has more options in footsies. The difference in damage output is just too much for it to be even.

    and even against sakura, the match didnt go disadvantaged because of damage alone. the other AE 2012 nerfs force him to play the same style as she does in that match now. you can give him his old damage with the rest of the current nerfs, and he'd still lose IMO


    Azrael wrote: »
    It's hard for Chun to go advantage against anyone with a good DP (exceptions - Dan and maybe Oni). It beats most of her offensive options so she's forced to respect it. Cammy's DP is solid enough and with FADC leads to extra damage (DP FADC DP even hurts), so I think she fits the bill of 5-5 at best for Chun. I say this because Chun really is not a zoning character and unless you're more or less perfect at keeping them out they WILL get in and then they're gonna take what they're owed.

    That's the main issue with the Cammy match. She may have to fight to get in but once she gets there she can reduce Chun's life in a hurry, and it's hard for Chun to get her out. EX TKCS forces her not to push any buttons, especially crouching ones. Chun has to hold down-back a lot and prefer to eat a throw than get frame trapped into a big combo.

    Chun does have some combo damage options but if she's going on the offensive then we come back to the first point - have to respect Cammy's DP. Simply getting hit by it puts Chun in the defensive posture she doesn't want to be in - DP FADC has the same outcome with more life lost. The only other way Chun is taking damage in this fight is if Cammy is being impatient and making stupid mistakes she can punish.

    Neutral game is kind of iffy. If Cammy is willing to fight on the ground there are some things she can do. Most of Chun's pokes are one-hit based and Cammy's FA isn't awful. Regardless of crumple she can FA parry her way in through a s.mp or sweep.

    c'mon Az. its 2013. DPs stopped killing offensive pressure like 3 years ago. im sure chun can run enough delay back throw or whatever to where there wont always be a random DP when she goes for frame traps and such

    DWU fucked my bitch
  • The BreakerThe Breaker reading, lol Joined: Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭
    DPs do a pretty good job at telling Sakura to stop kicking me in the face.

    Just saying.
    "This game is garbage." Why do you play it?
    "Because the other garbage is cold." So you just like garbage.
  • AzraelAzrael Epic Calling! Joined: Posts: 3,223 ✭✭✭
    HNIC Mike wrote: »
    c'mon Az. its 2013. DPs stopped killing offensive pressure like 3 years ago. im sure chun can run enough delay back throw or whatever to where there wont always be a random DP when she goes for frame traps and such

    Chun's offense isn't vortex or airtight. If she's pushing a button a DP will beat her. It's more than just the damage and the loss of offensive momentum though - it puts her on her back and now having to defend against the mixups and frame traps. For a character with moderate offense and defense that's not where she wants to be.

    DP's losing their bite is why matches like Ryu and Sagat aren't bad, or even as bad as they were in original. But at least when she eats a Sagat DP she doesn't have to worry about getting dive kicked in the face afterwards.
    chubbyfingerz:
    There are few characters in this game which everyone wishes they could play but simply can't adapt to. Say, Hakan, for instance. Makoto is chief among them. She's the equivalent of building a racecar and saying "give me 7 gears and NO brakes, no hydraulic steering, no seatbelt or helmet, none of that gay shit, cause I'm going for it with all I got and if I fuck up then fuck it". Cammy is like driving a Lamborghini with autopilot while you listen to One Direction and talk to your girlfriend on the phone "oh wait honey there's a curve coming up let me push a button here.... done. So, then your boss said what? Oh my god, what a bitch she is!"
  • m2thebradym2thebrady Joined: Posts: 577
    I think your points are well done but you don't get dive kicked after Cammy's DP either.
    Jaime Lannister sends his regards.
  • AmigoOneAmigoOne Joined: Posts: 1,156
    DPs do a pretty good job at telling Sakura to stop kicking me in the face.

    Just saying.

    Thats pretty much the only thing that'll stop sakura from twirling all day.
  • JulperoJulpero Joined: Posts: 759 ✭✭
    Lol beating a dead horse here but when I checked how much damage Yang did in AE that cr. mk double launcher combo did exactly the same damage as it does now. Really the only things that got nerfed about his damage were rekka enders and cr. lk. I do think that the cr. lk damage nerf was deserved though. For three cr. light kicks into rekkas that's way too much damage.
    Gfwl: jholtta
    Psn: julpro

    ssf4 ae 2012: Yang, Gen
    kof 13: Kensou, EX Kyo, Ryo, Takuma, Hwa Jai, Chin
  • The BreakerThe Breaker reading, lol Joined: Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭
    Well, Yang did lose a lot of damage on U2 combos (especially Palm FADC U2, which pretty much did more damage than anything U1 could do in terms of practicality), Super combos, and Super chip damage too. HP Palm losing 50 stun and 10 damage is kind of a big deal since 50 stun can be the difference between stun/not stunned on top of palm being a starter in the corner if your opponent wasn't careful. More or less agree though. Only things that probably weren't needed were the shorter Super, third MP/HP Tourou Zan, and U2 losing damage on the last hit outside of animation (5f DP with no hit box and 1 active invincibility frame, two bars, into U2 for..........262! FUCK YEAH RESPECT MY WAKE UP)
    "This game is garbage." Why do you play it?
    "Because the other garbage is cold." So you just like garbage.
  • HeavensCloudHeavensCloud Joined: Posts: 304
    edited February 2013
    Man, I remember back in AE when Yang could do command grab > close.fierce > mp. palm > FADC > U2 for like 600 damage.  And he had a brain dead way of landing ex.command grab from cr.jab, st. jab.  That was downright scary damage off something that could be landed pretty routinely.   
    Post edited by HeavensCloud on
  • JulperoJulpero Joined: Posts: 759 ✭✭
    Man, I remember back in AE when Yang could do command grab > close.fierce > mp. palm > FADC > U2 for like 600 damage.  And he had a brain dead way of landing ex.command grab from cr.jab, st. jab.  That was downright scary damage off something that could be landed pretty routinely.   
    Nah, actually that was only 505 damage. Still a bit too much but not as ridiculous as close to 600 damage would've been.
    Gfwl: jholtta
    Psn: julpro

    ssf4 ae 2012: Yang, Gen
    kof 13: Kensou, EX Kyo, Ryo, Takuma, Hwa Jai, Chin
  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Everytime people ask for a character to be nerfed capcom Completely overnerfs a character its like they dont research as to why people requested a character to be nerfed.Mark my words Cammy will be the new Yang.
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

    3s-Yang/Urien/Dudley
    Ae2012-Yun/Yang/Seth/Ryu/Cody/Dudley
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Oh Noes! My Character! Joined: Posts: 7,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The thing is tho. people are usually talking bnb damage when they talk about his dmg nerfs. fact is his bnbs didnt hit that hard in the first place
    DWU fucked my bitch
  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    he never did hit hard people just whined and bitched about yun so they assume yang would be just as good because hes a twin 
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

    3s-Yang/Urien/Dudley
    Ae2012-Yun/Yang/Seth/Ryu/Cody/Dudley
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • GolfgudenGolfguden Naked Joined: Posts: 297
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Oh Noes! My Character! Joined: Posts: 7,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    he never did hit hard people just whined and bitched about yun so they assume yang would be just as good because hes a twin 


    dont get me wrong now. he was certainly S tier.
    DWU fucked my bitch
  • The BreakerThe Breaker reading, lol Joined: Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    [251/390] j.MK, cr.LP, cst.MP, cr.MK xx MK Rollkicks
    [minus ten damage if dive kick instead of j.MK]
    Confirmed on cst.MP (+4 on block)
    have a 3f st.LK and cr.LK, 4f fst.LP (+4 on block again)
    go into MK Roll kicks if connected for another DK/j.MK set up
    while gaining plenty of meter
    meterless mid-screen

    Looks like they hit hard to me. Only BnB that didn't do much damage to begin with was cr.LK, cr.LK, cr.LK, fst.LK xx Slash but that still did amazing damage for being on a 3f starter and working from pretty far away. Looking back, I'm not really sure why any of us bothered using cr.LK after a dive kick...10 more damage and easier (/higher chance of) landing combos off a dive kick must have blinded us. I consider Seth a character that hits hard now and while he does a fair amount more damage/stun on cross-ups/dive kicks after SPD, his SPD is 3f/130/200 + ass walk speed vs 10f/7f throw invincibility/200/300 + wonderful walk speed + better dive kick + can spend meter to make that into like 300-500/400-500.
    Post edited by The Breaker on
    "This game is garbage." Why do you play it?
    "Because the other garbage is cold." So you just like garbage.
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 6,940 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2013

    Everytime people ask for a character to be nerfed capcom Completely overnerfs a character its like they dont research as to why people requested a character to be nerfed.Mark my words Cammy will be the new Yang.
    please let that happen capcom. i wanna see the salt in the cammy forums.
    Post edited by Ouroborus on
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • Huggy BearHuggy Bear Scoops Häagen-Dazs® Joined: Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭✭
    Ouroborus said:

    Everytime people ask for a character to be nerfed capcom Completely overnerfs a character its like they dont research as to why people requested a character to be nerfed.Mark my words Cammy will be the new Yang.
    please let that happen capcom. i wanna see the salt in the cammy forums.
    Oh god this
    Logan / Spencer / Gouki

  • m2thebradym2thebrady Joined: Posts: 577
    edited February 2013
    I hope to god capcom doesn't listen to people like the srk forums. You guys cry witch burning with Cammy but I hardly ever see talk about nerfing Akuma, Seth or Fei, all of whom are definitely at the same level.
    Post edited by m2thebrady on
    Jaime Lannister sends his regards.
This discussion has been closed.