Most technical character? (POLL)

just5moreminutes · January 2

This article from Eventhubs got me thinking about this. I thought the most technical character was Viper, but the variety of responses made me curious as to who the most technical character really is according to majority opinion. Due to SRK constraints, I've narrowed the list down to 11 characters that seemed to come up most often.

Vulpes · January 2

Really
You listed Guile

divinemarkpizza · January 2

no balrog in poll?
boo

LudaBaba · January 2

Will be hard battle between Viper and Gen.
Maybe E.Ryu should be add instead of Guile.

just5moreminutes · January 2

Vulpes, post: 7860665, member: 57311 wrote:

Really
You listed Guile

Don't ask me; I was just going by some of the common responses in the comments.
I never said they were good responses.

Julpero · January 2

People complain about Guile being on the list but what about Gouken is more technical?

doubleoh · January 2

lol no Abel, pretty much the most match up dependent character in the game?

The list should be:

Viper
Makoto
Abel
Ibuki
Elf
Gouken
Gen
Hakan

otori · January 2

None of the above.

And lol at viper and elf.

m0mo · January 2

Duh. It's obviously gen. I play him and I'm a real hero because ya know. My character is the hardest.

Vulpes · January 3

Get me a definition of "technical character" and I give you an answer..

doubleoh, post: 7860827, member: 69866 wrote:

Abel, pretty much the most match up dependent character in the game?

Lolwat

Julpero · January 3

I think Chun-li should be on the list. Yeah yeah her most basic bnb is possibly the easiest combo in the game but there's so much more to her than that.
If you look at a high level Chun like Vivi and what he does it's obvious how much effort it takes to keep up with other characters.

You have stuff like cr. HP xx legs loop which is harder than anything Gen has with his hands combos. Let's be honest Gen's hands have probably the loosest of timings out of all hands type attacks when it comes to canceling into them. Even Honda's hhs combos are harder.

Then you have the links into super from st. HP and hazanshu which aren't exactly beginner level stuff and take effort to insert them into your gameplay. Sure there's an "easier" version of linking Hazanshu to super by linking cr. lp to st. hp to super. A two frame link to one frame link to a link to super which is a two frame link.

If you want to get damage out of her focus attack you'll have to either go for the cr. hp xx legs loops or then cr. lp, st. hp xx hk SBK where canceling a standing normal into a down charge move is a skill in itself.

And no this isn't boasting about how my character is the hardest to play or anything. I play Yang and Gen and I think neither take as much skill as Chun-li yet both are technical characters in their own right.

AmigoOne · January 3

Obligatory technical =/= hard to play

Gouken probably shouldn't be on there.

I think Hakan might be up there. Hakan, Gen, Viper.

Highlandfireball · January 3

Gouken and Guile I'd say were the least technical characters in the game. Especially Gouken. I'd even recommend those characters to beginners.

Nobody's mentioned Yang, in his current state, it takes a lot of work to be good with that character and also heavily relies on specific set ups with his low damage output and low health.

density. · January 3

My vote goes to Viper with Gen coming in at a very close 2nd

doubleoh · January 3

Vulpes, post: 7861091, member: 57311 wrote:

Lolwat

who are you

The Breaker · January 3

Required execution: Gen
Required knowledge: Gouki
Currently optional execution that will probably be required later on: Yang (many combos with multiple 1f links that increase damage output and options significantly, many of which can't be plinked without select)
Currently optional knowledge that will probably be required later on: Seth (character timings for 3 stomps on everyone after DP FADC, character specific as well as spacing specific as well as standing/crouching specific cr.HK combos, timing variations for every fireball that can be avoided with fst.hp or at least traded, set ups to shake a stick at, knowing distances you can punish characters for throwing fireballs in response to yours with U1, knowing distances for Super and U2 traps, knowing who magneto loop still works on, knowing what normals you need to do before hand if magneto loop sort of works, being able to do a frame perfect dive kick against shotos so ghetto magneto loop can work on them, being able to confirm Hyakuretsukyaku after a stray Sonic Boom near the corner, knowing optimal FA2 backdash combos depending on what character you're fighting, blah blah blah blah blah blah can go on for a while. You get the idea)

K1MOCH1 · January 3

wtf is technical? they're all technical in some way
did you mean execution heavy?

doubleoh · January 3

K1MOCH1, post: 7861223, member: 53735 wrote:

wtf is technical? they're all technical in some way
did you mean execution heavy?

breaker laid out it pretty well. for me it's execution + knowledge of character/matchups

Ryuken9 · January 3

Obviously everyone is going to respond by «my character» is the most technical, shit in the Ryu forums people are saying that Ryu is the hardest character to master. I play Seth, Ken and Sagat I know all of the three are some of the easiest.

just5moreminutes · January 3

While "techincal" is subjective, I personally define it as the amount of skill required to move the character around the screen, land hits, and execute combos.
I dunno where people got Guile and Gouken from, but I saw them in disturbing frequency so I put them in anyway. I don't really think Gouken and Abel are THAT technical, but I saw them mentioned in the comments more often than Chun-Li or Abel, so I put them instead.

EDIT: And can anyone explain why the hell Dudley is even a choice on this list? I play him and he really isn't technical enough to be put near Viper, Gen, and Hakan.

The Breaker · January 3

more power to you if you're doing single hit confirms and linking fw.hk, cst.hk consistently then

only guy i see doing it is thirtyfour though

divinemarkpizza · January 3

balrog
list him next time

Eternal · January 3

Most technical from a execution perspective: Viper/Gen/Fuerte(RSF only)
Most technical from a matchup specific knowledge and setup perspective: Makoto/Abel/Akuma/Hakan (I'd say Makoto takes this SLIGHTLY over Akuma but only because she can't get away with NOT knowing matchups/setups as much as Akuma can even if they both utilize them to an equal amount at high levels.)
Most technical from an reading/training your opponents state of mind aspect: Makoto/Dudley/Cody/Guy (all have options that are only really good against 1 thing and are unsafe against everything else while also having a bad wakeup if they make a wrong decision. Seth requires a similar skill set but it can be boiled down to 2 options DP or SPD when pressuring and his wakeup is really solid even if its not as good as Ryu or Akuma. Same reason I didn't put Yang on here, his wakeup is good enough that the requirement of conditioning your opponent isn't as bad if they don't do what you expect.)
Most technical from a spacing/zoning perspective: Guile/Ryu/Juri/Deejay Gouken doesn't require as strict of spacing when he zones but he is up there too.

Most technical from a grappler perspective: Hakan
:p

I don't think there is any ONE "most technical" character in the game.

Huggy Bear · January 3

I define technical as a culmination of everything "Hard" in this game. Combos, Knowledge, Specific application of the aforementioned- Blah blah.

I play Gen. And bar a couple of things I think people overestimate how hard it is to play him. But its easy to say after like 3 years, for example my crossups combo

Crane j.MK > *Change stance* > cr.LK > cr.LP > 1f link into TC2 into Hands > FADC* > s.MP > EX hands > link sweep

Thats a combo i do whenever i have 3 bars and my opponent sucks. Its looks swag and it setups up so much shit. But id consider it technical. Thats why Gen got my vote, of course i dont know viper as well but FFF isn't difficult at all.

Gen, Honda, Hakan and Abel would all get my vote.

ilitirit · January 3

Gen and Viper. Gouki doesn't really need vortex to win, and his combos are pretty simple. Viper and Gen require good execution off the bat.

Viper needs good execution for offense and defense. She suffers from a really wonky wakeup hit-box and slow reversal, weakest FA in the game, and slow crouch tech so you need to be able to do stuff like HP TK Feints if avoid getting mauled by x-up shenanigans on wakeup. To face characters like Gief, your seismo zoning must be on-point. One missed input and you go flying into a lariat or headbutt.

Gen just has an inherently high execution barrier. His WTF kicks have weird timing. He has two sets of moves, so sometimes just a simple AA requires a stance change. His combos are harder-than-average and consists of piano, motion and charge moves.

C3TN · January 3

Voted for Hakan, he can do so much sick shit that other characters can't. Seems like Guile players voted their main here. :rofl:

metallicaband · January 3

Blanka

Kappa

Choopyplz · January 3

Kinda surprised there was no Chun up there either. However I voted Gen, seriously challenging to be really effective.

Axl_m4ster · January 4

here's my list.
most tech and takes the longest to learn due to that.
1)juri
2)viper
3)gen
4)dhalsim
5)abel
least tech
1)balrog
2)bison
3)guile/dee jay
4)cody
5)blanka
6)adon
mostly the charged characters

easiest characters to learn and win consistently with....bison & balrog

hardest character to win consistently with...
el fuerte
but not so hard to learn

this is all imo

eddieW · January 4

I vote Gouken if talking technical not tier

http://m.youtube.com/channel/UCAQW8MHT2Wi-SfHRVCAiXGg

Shinebox · January 5

Huggy Bear, post: 7862518, member: 60172 wrote:

I define technical as a culmination of everything "Hard" in this game. Combos, Knowledge, Specific application of the aforementioned- Blah blah.

I play Gen. And bar a couple of things I think people overestimate how hard it is to play him. But its easy to say after like 3 years, for example my crossups combo

Crane j.MK > *Change stance* > cr.LK > cr.LP > 1f link into TC2 into Hands > FADC* > s.MP > EX hands > link sweep

Thats a combo i do whenever i have 3 bars and my opponent sucks. Its looks swag and it setups up so much shit. But id consider it technical. Thats why Gen got my vote, of course i dont know viper as well but FFF isn't difficult at all.

Gen, Honda, Hakan and Abel would all get my vote.

I also play Gen from time to time and will say that he is horribly overestimated in terms of technicality. If you want to make it easier to learn him, start up by using only crane at far distance and mantis close up then incorporate both stances into your combos how Huggy bear just described.

C.Viper has heavier execution than this, your execution will depend on whether you do another seismo or are sent flying into your opponents arms.

Huggy Bear · January 5

Axl_m4ster, post: 7866007, member: 19913 wrote:

here's my list.
most tech and takes the longest to learn due to that.
1)juri

Nope.

Seems like a list of characters you get bodied by.

Vulpes · January 5

Huggy Bear, post: 7868153, member: 60172 wrote:

Seems like a list of characters you get bodied by.

He plays Juri, so that's that

Either way, I still need a definition of what technical even means
And if you give me a definition, will it be in regards to "most technical to pick up initially" or "most technical to get to the highest level"?

"Most matchup dependant" is still a silly claim

Viper is the char I see the most execution errors even at the highest level with, so that's my pick for now
Super overlapping inputs with SJCancels so Latif randomly wastes bars on ExSeismo to avoid supering by mistake is pretty silly

Huggy Bear · January 5

I'd define Technical as:

"A Character that requires the most knowledge to utilise to their full potential. This includes Matchup knowledge, Frame data, Character Specifics, Execution / Dexterity, Usage of the Moveset, Meter Usage, Options etc"

Basically. A character that needs to use the most data to win.

For that, I'd say Gen.

24 Normals, 2 Stances you must switch between during combos, High Execution, Charge Moves / Piano methods, Has to FADC differently, 2 Supers + Ultras, Tons of Character specifics etc.

Also. Burn the heretic, but what exactly is difficult about Viper? Or anyone in this game? I personally have never found Gen or Viper to be too hard. Even FFF is babby-mode.

eddieW · January 5

I'm thinking technical like you have to think more and be more creative in the fight like for example I vote Gouken vs say ryu.. When Gouken jumps at ryu the player using ryu might have to 2nd guess the Dp bc of the parry option from Gouken or risk the dp and eat a huge combo, but Vs the rest of the cast you jump at a good Ryu he gets a free dp...

metallicaband · January 6

Viper is hardest execution wise, no one even gets close, this slut has no footsies to worry about though.

Akuma's common combos are very easy (well except for tatsu > sweep vs quite a bit of the cast) but IMO he is hardest overall to master due to the sheer amount of tools, tons of setups with strict timings, low active frames on normals, low stamina/health..etc

Akuma does have some tough combos that people generally don't use because the damage output isn't much better, but if you really want to 100% master him then you should be doing 'em (Daigo used those combos when he played Akuma), stuff like using HK tatsu FADC instead of fireball FADC, HK tatsu FADC only gives +3 so the follow up is a risky one frame link with st.mp for best damage.

There's also HP SRK FADC on first grounded hit which is also +3, best follow up is cr.lp or st.mp combos but most players just follow up with another SRK. Far roundhouse, cr.mk xx teleport xx U2 is no joke as well.

Also, LOL at whoever says Cody is one of the easiest characters in the game and Abel is one of the hardest

Huggy Bear · January 6

metallicaband, post: 7869400, member: 15933 wrote:

Viper is hardest execution wise, no one even gets close

Please tell me what Viper has that makes her apparently hard to play.

And why on earth would you crMK > Teleport > U2?

Why not force standing with s.HP? Akuma aint hard bro D:

metallicaband · January 6

Huggy Bear, post: 7870538, member: 60172 wrote:

Please tell me what Viper has that makes her apparently hard to play.

And why on earth would you crMK > Teleport > U2?

Why not force standing with s.HP? Akuma aint hard bro D:

About Viper, I don't play her, but her super jump cancels and feint combos aren't exactly easy, her execution is as hard as it gets in this game.

As for Akuma:
1- s.hp doesn't force stand, he's not E.Ryu (shows how much you know about him btw ;) )
2- There's a very good reason on this Earth to use that combo, I said that combo is useful after far roundhouse, that's the best and most damaging follow up specially if you're not within range of cr.lk, but it's not easy to be consistent with, Daigo used it for a reason.

It's basically useful against hit confirms that push you far enough to not be in close fierce range, it's Not useless.

Huggy Bear · January 6

I thought cr/s.HP both forced stand. Ah well!

And SJC's along with the FFF seriously are not hard. SF is a game where execution doesn't really need to be "Up there" it's more to do with muscle memory and less about dexterity, and if the FFF is all Viper has to offer then why do people complain about execution in this game? I found Gen a lot harder than Viper (Although I won't lie and say I can Meterless FADC all the time) Simply because Viper deals unholy damage compared to Gen's rather weak punish game.

Also, I'd easily say Abel is harder than Akuma. That cr.MK combo whilst "Difficult" seems like you'd never ever need to use it. With Abel-

Step Kick > 1f Link into s.hP xx CoD > FADC > Dash cr.HP > U1 / Falling Sky / Mixup

That's more or less an Abel BNB. He is a difficult character, especially with that Step Kick confirm.

Ryuken9 · January 6

Huggy Bear, post: 7870538, member: 60172 wrote:

Please tell me what Viper has that makes her apparently hard to play.

And why on earth would you crMK > Teleport > U2?

Why not force standing with s.HP? Akuma aint hard bro D:

Perhaps you have decent execution, it's only one aspect of the game and it's all repetition in training mode.

I think the most difficult characters are those who don't autopilot and have to play by their instincts all the time, Zangief requires a lot of patience and is straightforward, also not that easy execution wise if you want to hit-confirm off his low short.

metallicaband · January 6

Huggy Bear, post: 7870597, member: 60172 wrote:

Also, I'd easily say Abel is harder than Akuma. That cr.MK combo whilst "Difficult" seems like you'd never ever need to use it. With Abel-

Step Kick > 1f Link into s.hP xx CoD > FADC > Dash cr.HP > U1 / Falling Sky / Mixup

That's more or less an Abel BNB. He is a difficult character, especially with that Step Kick confirm.

Are you for real dude?

Just because he has a 1 frame link BnB he's instantly harder to master than Akuma? You do realize Akuma's tatsu > sweep is also 1 frame link against many of the cast, right? I'm not even saying it's hard, having one frame link BnBs isn't that big of a deal, Rufus's main BnB is a 1 frame link (s.lk, s.hp)

I probably should have stopped reading when you said Abel is harder than Akuma...

Emanuelb · January 6

What Vulpes said - we need an exact definition for what "technical character" means. I mean, yeah, maybe Viper is very technical, but that doesn't stop her to be one of the most popular characters, highly succesfull at high level, and I've seen Viper win majors by doing 5 BKs in a row - I wasn't exactly impressed by her...technicallity.
On the other hand, characters like Bison, Balrog and Honda, which are seen as easier, need far more work to win with at higher level - and all of them have really difficult combos.

Anyway I think Dhalsim could be considered very technical - you have a gazilion of options, and you need to play perfect - any mistake can cost you the round.

AmigoOne · January 6

I think technical means a relatively high executional (means strict combos (lower amount of applicable plinks 1 framers), strict setups (bonus points for manual timing) character specific strategies that gives an optimal playstyle that benefits the character much more as compared to other characters, who in comparison receive lesser rewards when trying to completely optimize.

More work =/= technical. Requiring patience, better reads, reactions, struggling in certain matchups or competitive levels do not make it technical. Makes it hard, not technical. Playing on point is not being technical.

Huggy Bear · January 6

metallicaband, post: 7870619, member: 15933 wrote:

I probably should have stopped reading when you said Abel is harder than Akuma...

Where is scrubquotes.

Thunder Road Man · January 6

Huggy Bear, post: 7870597, member: 60172 wrote:

I thought cr/s.HP both forced stand. Ah well!

And SJC's along with the FFF seriously are not hard. SF is a game where execution doesn't really need to be "Up there" it's more to do with muscle memory and less about dexterity, and if the FFF is all Viper has to offer then why do people complain about execution in this game? I found Gen a lot harder than Viper (Although I won't lie and say I can Meterless FADC all the time) Simply because Viper deals unholy damage compared to Gen's rather weak punish game.

Also, I'd easily say Abel is harder than Akuma. That cr.MK combo whilst "Difficult" seems like you'd never ever need to use it. With Abel-

Step Kick > 1f Link into s.hP xx CoD > FADC > Dash cr.HP > U1 / Falling Sky / Mixup

That's more or less an Abel BNB. He is a difficult character, especially with that Step Kick confirm.

things like doing loads of raw tk feints are hard

ilitirit · January 6

Viper's technical difficulty is not based around FFF. But let's not kid ourselves here - no newcomer is going to pick up Viper and consistently do FFF Ex Seismo SJC BK/TK on day 1. No matter how you look at it, that's one of the hardest BnB's in the game. And yet, that's probably the easiest technique to learn when playing Viper. Even stuff like low SJC BKs are deceptively hard because of the input blindspot that most players don't know about (there are a few frames during your SJ startup where button presses aren't registered). Yeah once you get it down it's a piece of cake, but it actually does take a lot of practice to learn how to target your BKs properly.

Meterless FADC is hard. Raw wakeup feints are hard. Seismo zoning and feinting is hard. Anti-airing correctly is hard. Manually eyeing the height for Ultra juggles takes tons of practice and experience. Even pros drop this occasionally.

Obviously you can play her without doing any of these things, just like you can play Gen in one stance only.

Personally I do think Gen is more technical but that doesn't mean that I think Viper is "as easy" as the rest of the cast.

littlescumbag · January 9

most technical GEN followed with a close second place VIPER

Mafamaticks · January 11

We need to figure out what technical is and judge based on the categories once its broken down. Example:

Technical consists of execution level, knowledge of spacing/footsies, and the number of canned setups that you need to know (I'm sure there are some better criteria we can base it on). This'll make the process to determine who is more technical a little easier. So take Viper vs. Guile.

High Execution: 8
Doesn't really need to use footsies: 3
Certain amount of setups for certain characters (dunno. 5 I guess)

Viper's score is 16.

Guile has low execution but does have 1 frame BnBs. 4
Needs to be good at spacing/footsies to excel: 9
Not a lot of canned setups (if any): 2

Guile's score is 15.

Viper is more technical than Guile.

K1MOCH1 · January 11

are we rating execution while considering efficiency? if not then i would rate guiles execution harder than everyone

sorrowstick · January 11

I'm cool if Cody wasn't in this rookie poll...
coz' i've got bashed by some noob said "Bingo ? Bingo ? Bingo? Is that how you win? Cheap ass"
(but i don't think zonk knuckle is cheap maneuver)

Yet....what's up with El-Fuerte hatred? Not only he's a honest luchadore, chef and fighter...
but he's a fine technical character...

metallicaband · January 11

sorrowstick, post: 7887107, member: 80605 wrote:

but he's a fine technical character...

lulz

Fuerte = Gimmick, pure and simple

Give him some good normals so he can play some footsies and rely less on gimmicky wakeup bullshit (which is literally all he does now) then people might start respecting him a bit more.

Most technical character? (POLL)

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