Most technical character? (POLL)

2

Comments

  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭
    Actually El Fuerte is one of the most difficult characters to learn at high level. And if you only take RSF, he IS a very technical character. And is more than gimmicks, iPeru didn't finnish top 16 at Evo with gimmicks alone.
    People just hate they have to play different against Fuerte.
    On another note, I find it funny that Akuma players are complaining of Fuerte. It's not like Akuma doesn't have a lot of bs on wakeup.
    SSF4 AE v. 2012 - 2013 Tier List: http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6905/a2oo.jpg

  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭✭
    Please don't compare Akuma to the garbage pile of gimmicks that is Fuerte.
    "Blanka is scrub." - Tokido
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭
    Akuma has the same amount of "wakeup BS" as Fuerte - the difference is that Akuma has dmg, so he can lay on the hurt.
    SSF4 AE v. 2012 - 2013 Tier List: http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6905/a2oo.jpg

  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭✭
    Akuma's main plan isn't to random you out and he can win without abusing the vortex, look at Infiltration. My problem with Fuerte is that his plan is literally to random you out having pretty much nothing else to rely on.

    Not saying top Fuerte players aren't skillful, they are, the character's tools and game plan just isn't right for a SF game IMO, I'm not even saying he's tough to beat or anything like that.
    "Blanka is scrub." - Tokido
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭
    yeah, I agree, Fuerte is...quite different from the norm. I personally don't mind him at all, but I understand why many don't like him.
    SSF4 AE v. 2012 - 2013 Tier List: http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6905/a2oo.jpg

  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,675 ✭✭✭
    If Fuerte's gameplan is "literally to random".. how does anyone ever get consistent results with him? Born under a lucky star?
    Why.
  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭✭
    If Fuerte's gameplan is "literally to random".. how does anyone ever get consistent results with him? Born under a lucky star?
    You're saying that it isn't his gameplan ..? If so, please enlighten me and tell me what is it.
    "Blanka is scrub." - Tokido
  • sorrowsticksorrowstick Joined: Posts: 253
    lulz

    Fuerte = Gimmick, pure and simple

    Give him some good normals so he can play some footsies and rely less on gimmicky wakeup bullshit (which is literally all he does now) then people might start respecting him a bit more.

    looks like you have a problem with mix up gamestyle buddy,
    coz' thats how naturally elf fuerte should be played...live with it. its legit.
    if you take it as a bullshit, plain, simple and cheating....then you are nothing but a big scrub who expect people to play flowchart against you. well, from this point its easier for you to anticipate your opponent because typical player like you are are too lazy to guess.
    yes i know......its no need skill to master elf, but do i have to be PSJLatiff 2.0 to climb up the ladder?
    guessing and gambling is natural aspect in every game. is it hard for 80% in this SRK forum to accept?
    trollfighting, guessing game, random mash & taunting are legit...offline or online.
  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭✭
    looks like you have a problem with mix up gamestyle buddy,
    coz' thats how naturally elf fuerte should be played...live with it. its legit.
    if you take it as a bullshit, plain, simple and cheating....then you are nothing but a big scrub who expect people to play flowchart against you. well, from this point its easier for you to anticipate your opponent because typical player like you are are too lazy to guess.
    yes i know......its no need skill to master elf, but do i have to be PSJLatiff 2.0 to climb up the ladder?
    guessing and gambling is natural aspect in every game. is it hard for 80% in this SRK forum to accept?
    LOL at judging how I play because I criticized a character.

    I don't have any problem facing Fuerte players and he's far from being a character that I'd call a cheater. To me, his character design is flawed, he relies too much on a bag of tricks that aren't even safe for the most part, pre and post knockdowns.

    If Fuerte players think he's fine and doesn't need stuff like better normals to be more solid overall, then more power to them, I honestly see him as one of the worst characters in the game to be able to win in tournaments no matter how good the player is, specially if he's playing against solid players who know the matchup.

    Also, I main Akuma, so no I don't have any problem with mixups.
    "Blanka is scrub." - Tokido
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've played iperu a good amount, his gameplan isn't random at all.

    It's like saying all sagat does is throw fireballs or all blanka does is hop or all bison does is scissors.

    That might be true at low level play but characters have depth/complexity past what you see.
  • blufangblufang 25th Anniversary, The Simpsons Joined: Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1. Well Fuerte needs to be buffed up, better normals and more damage, however it seems so many complain about him. If he is so weak why the complaint? Also vortex characters, where crazy 50/50 options are a large part of their game plan don't really have a right to complain.
    20th Anniversary of ST ST Tournament of Legends EVO 2012
    ST Tournament of Legends 2 at EVO 2014!!! Featuring Nuki, Mao, Kurahashi, Damdai, AfroLegends, JWong and others.

    20th Anniversary of Darkstalkers Darkstalkers Resurrection Pro Play

    20th Anniversary of Marvel, King of Fighters, Tekken, and Killer Instinct




  • blufangblufang 25th Anniversary, The Simpsons Joined: Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ibuki is greatly underestimated, at least according to this poll. So many options, and to win at any level with her requires a lot of knowledge on the players' part. The top level Ibukis are crazy technical, and that is just to be able to compete.
    20th Anniversary of ST ST Tournament of Legends EVO 2012
    ST Tournament of Legends 2 at EVO 2014!!! Featuring Nuki, Mao, Kurahashi, Damdai, AfroLegends, JWong and others.

    20th Anniversary of Darkstalkers Darkstalkers Resurrection Pro Play

    20th Anniversary of Marvel, King of Fighters, Tekken, and Killer Instinct




  • MingoDynastyMingoDynasty PC gaming master race Joined: Posts: 5,465
    I should also add that there is no way to answer this thread without first knowing what people mean when they say "technical".

    Without a clear definition, I can only suspect that this thread will simply/eventually derail into a flame war.
  • sorrowsticksorrowstick Joined: Posts: 253
    I should also add that there is no way to answer this thread without first knowing what people mean when they say "technical".

    Without a clear definition, I can only suspect that this thread will simply/eventually derail into a flame war.


    Technical definition is not that subjective........the topic starter means,
    character that pro use and apply these most of the time
    1. tight long links with/without ultra/super finishing.
    2. crazy charge up dash into ultra/super trick.
    3. a character did not rely mix up moves, readable yet the defense cannot be penetrable.
    trollfighting, guessing game, random mash & taunting are legit...offline or online.
  • Time pantsTime pants Maybe Evil Ryu is just misunderstood? Joined: Posts: 229 ✭✭
    I voted Makoto because everything she does has consequence. Most of her moves have a ton of start-up (comparatively), she can't move effectively without committing to a command move or dash, and her command grab has such disgusting recovery that a single whiffed attempt could conceivably cost her the round. I tried maining her briefly and I couldn't comprehend the ebb and flow of her gameplay. She has to transition from defense to offense on a dime, and she can't afford to be reactive most of the time. She has to punch her own holes in most cases, and she only really finds her way in when she tricks her opponent into doing something stupid. I just have the utmost respect for people who can play her well, because Makoto's hard as fuck.
  • Branh0913Branh0913 PSN: branh0913 xbl:Tightest Titan Joined: Posts: 3,513
    Guile has technical aspects. Almost all of his links are one frame links, and they lead to very low damage. He also get's real damage off of some technical setups like st.HP into super, which is both hard to hit confirm and execute. Guile's basic FADC ultra is far harder than most other character's as well.

    However with all of that said, Guile is not a very technical character. You can play Guile pretty effectively and never really incoporate any of his technical stuff into your game. Very few things that Guile has that is difficult are necessary. Since his game plan does not really rely on doing max damage combos, it's really not that important for him.

    I do believe Guile is way more difficult to play than most people think. While many peope may think he mindlessly chuck sonic booms, he's one of the characters where spacing is a live or die thing. If you can't space well with Guile,. you can't win with him against good competition. As a result, his zoning game is VERY matchup dependent (especially against players who know how to get in). So he's difficult to master, but VERY easy to pick up.

    I do not beleive he is one of the more technical characters. Like with any character, he has more technical stuff that he could be doing. But you don't need it to win with him.
    M.O.D.O.K Avengers - Minister Of Defense
    The Turtle Master, but my name ain't Splinter
    Hitting down/back so fast, you think I was using macros
  • sorrowsticksorrowstick Joined: Posts: 253
    I voted Makoto because everything she does has consequence. Most of her moves have a ton of start-up (comparatively), she can't move effectively without committing to a command move or dash, and her command grab has such disgusting recovery that a single whiffed attempt could conceivably cost her the round. I tried maining her briefly and I couldn't comprehend the ebb and flow of her gameplay. She has to transition from defense to offense on a dime, and she can't afford to be reactive most of the time. She has to punch her own holes in most cases, and she only really finds her way in when she tricks her opponent into doing something stupid. I just have the utmost respect for people who can play her well, because Makoto's hard as fuck.
    i can handle makoto with cake...just pick cody, and chunk her with mix up air or mix up low / high + end with Zonk.
    now cody could be most technical character.....because he has tons of juggling combo in his library.
    trollfighting, guessing game, random mash & taunting are legit...offline or online.
  • kraalkraal Joined: Posts: 478 ✭✭
    Just watch top players of each character and how often they screw up technically. And by that I don't mean how often they guess wrong.

    So, probably Viper, Gen, Hakan.
  • blufangblufang 25th Anniversary, The Simpsons Joined: Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like Gen is the clear winner here. He definitely is one of if not the most difficult to play at any level, be it beginner, intermediate, or pro. Viper is a close 2nd.
    20th Anniversary of ST ST Tournament of Legends EVO 2012
    ST Tournament of Legends 2 at EVO 2014!!! Featuring Nuki, Mao, Kurahashi, Damdai, AfroLegends, JWong and others.

    20th Anniversary of Darkstalkers Darkstalkers Resurrection Pro Play

    20th Anniversary of Marvel, King of Fighters, Tekken, and Killer Instinct




  • sorrowsticksorrowstick Joined: Posts: 253
    1. Well Fuerte needs to be buffed up, better normals and more damage, however it seems so many complain about him. If he is so weak why the complaint? Also vortex characters, where crazy 50/50 options are a large part of their game plan don't really have a right to complain.

    Definitely right........a lot of lazy gays who gave up on guessing used to jump to conclusion that elfuerte can only won by random mix up. they think it is an easy way and cheating (which is 100% not true)

    meanwhile scrubs who can't even figure out how to deal with elf used to seek an excuse that elf is damn weak due to bla bla bla unsafe.....bla bla knockdown....bla bla frametrap (which is 100% not true)
    trollfighting, guessing game, random mash & taunting are legit...offline or online.
  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭✭
    Funny thing is you can blow up a lot of Elfs bullshit with focus attack
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

    3s-Yang/Urien/Dudley
    Ae2012-Yun/Yang/Seth/Ryu/Cody/Dudley
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • MingoDynastyMingoDynasty PC gaming master race Joined: Posts: 5,465
    Define "bullshit"? His Fajita/Tortilla are grabs, so you can't FA out of those. Not to mention he can always opt to stop/do nothing, and then punish whatever you do with raw ultra.
  • MissionSchabernackMissionSchabernack Joined: Posts: 461
    No one listed Yang lol. Yan is definitely the most technical character in the game, very hard execution, low damage, a lot of setups, mixups and resets, he is so hard to play (I main Abel and I say that). I always respect a good Yang!!!
    Ibuki is very technical too.
    Lol at akuma, Gen and Viper, they are nothing in comparison, Viper hard execution?? Cmon are u kidding me.
  • chubbyfingerzchubbyfingerz Kore ga Saikyo-ryu da! Joined: Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭
    Gen, Hakan, Makoto
    PSN: SaikyoForever

    Test yourself against Saikyo!

  • sorrowsticksorrowstick Joined: Posts: 253
    Define "bullshit"? His Fajita/Tortilla are grabs, so you can't FA out of those. Not to mention he can always opt to stop/do nothing, and then punish whatever you do with raw ultra.
    What a fail.....never thought i would met an ibuki player whinning about elf. pretty nooby there......since ibuki capable to deal elf with a snap. oh yeah....do i have to start on ibukis most cheapest projectle on god earth that capable to cross up?
    trollfighting, guessing game, random mash & taunting are legit...offline or online.
  • MingoDynastyMingoDynasty PC gaming master race Joined: Posts: 5,465
    ?

    I'm not whining about Elf. Ibuki has far worse matchups than him. I was simply responding to Mr.PaVy-RD that Elf has good options to deal with wakeup FA.

    I do like though how you somehow managed to turn my post into your own whining about Ibuki.
  • MissionSchabernackMissionSchabernack Joined: Posts: 461
    Where is the problem with Elf? Just kick the damn f***** out of the lobby, you can now play real streetfighter again, you will probably not see another Elf this day or week, so dont bother with it lol.
  • blufangblufang 25th Anniversary, The Simpsons Joined: Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ^Who plays real street fighter? Kicking Elf out is weaksauce.
    20th Anniversary of ST ST Tournament of Legends EVO 2012
    ST Tournament of Legends 2 at EVO 2014!!! Featuring Nuki, Mao, Kurahashi, Damdai, AfroLegends, JWong and others.

    20th Anniversary of Darkstalkers Darkstalkers Resurrection Pro Play

    20th Anniversary of Marvel, King of Fighters, Tekken, and Killer Instinct




  • sorrowsticksorrowstick Joined: Posts: 253
    Where is the problem with Elf? Just kick the damn f***** out of the lobby, you can now play real streetfighter again, you will probably not see another Elf this day or week, so dont bother with it lol.

    man....i...i....can't .......i.....speechless

    face-palm.jpg.....

    eerrrr......i mean your so-called real street fighting ethics, you're doing it wrong....!


    .
    ?

    I'm not whining about Elf. Ibuki has far worse matchups than him. I was simply responding to Mr.PaVy-RD that Elf has good options to deal with wakeup FA.

    I do like though how you somehow managed to turn my post into your own whining about Ibuki.

    ok whatever.......just wanna let you know don't turn out to be like some scrubby here...kick elf outta lobby? is he serious?
    trollfighting, guessing game, random mash & taunting are legit...offline or online.
  • MissionSchabernackMissionSchabernack Joined: Posts: 461
    man....i...i....can't .......i.....speechless

    face-palm.jpg.....

    eerrrr......i mean your so-called real street fighting ethics, you're doing it wrong....!


    .

    ok whatever.......just wanna let you know don't turn out to be like some scrubby here...kick elf outta lobby? is he serious?


    u absorbed the vocabulary here quite well, perhaps you should play more insteadt of reading here, I am sure I would beat you easuily
  • mapleleafs791mapleleafs791 I wish I knew how to quit you... Joined: Posts: 559 ✭✭✭
    snip

    Dude i feel like you harass peoples posts so much. whats up? every time i see you quote someone its you talking shit. chill out
    XBL GT: Chilaisho
    SSF4 AE 2012: Cody, Evil Ryu
    SFxT: Law, Kazuya
    UMvC3: Magneto, Dormammu, Dr. Doom
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Baton Rouge, Lousiana Joined: Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭✭
    I wonder how many posters in this thread have actually tried to learn the characters they are talking about.
    Σ(All Hits) = K.O.
    "You don't become good at anything in life by understanding how to do it, you become good at it by understanding why you do it."
  • MingoDynastyMingoDynasty PC gaming master race Joined: Posts: 5,465
    I wonder how many posters in this thread have actually tried to learn the characters they are talking about.
    I'm wondering the same thing.
  • PterodactylPterodactyl Genital Joined: Posts: 3,092 ✭✭✭✭
    What a fail.....never thought i would met an ibuki player whinning about elf. pretty nooby there......since ibuki capable to deal elf with a snap. oh yeah....do i have to start on ibukis most cheapest projectle on god earth that capable to cross up?

    You're retarded.

    Seriously.

    Learn how to read things the right way before going off like a 10 year old.

    Read the both of these again, slowly.
    Funny thing is you can blow up a lot of Elfs bullshit with focus attack
    Define "bullshit"? His Fajita/Tortilla are grabs, so you can't FA out of those. Not to mention he can always opt to stop/do nothing, and then punish whatever you do with raw ultra.

    If you still managed to fuck up, Mingo's post is defending Elf's abilities to get around focus attacks.
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Baton Rouge, Lousiana Joined: Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭✭
    IMO Akuma is not a technical character as far as combos go.

    He is technical when it comes to his set ups because off sweep you have to manually time everything. That said I don't think he is the most technical in the game. His difficulty is how knowledge heavy the player needs to be.

    Gen and Viper are much more technical. Ibuki's high end stuff can be very technical though her low end stuff is mad easy.
    Σ(All Hits) = K.O.
    "You don't become good at anything in life by understanding how to do it, you become good at it by understanding why you do it."
  • chubbyfingerzchubbyfingerz Kore ga Saikyo-ryu da! Joined: Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭
    Akuma has the easiest high-damage combos in the game. that tatsu into dp crap is ridiculous. Now you try Dan ( my main)'s combos and you'll see what pain is
    PSN: SaikyoForever

    Test yourself against Saikyo!

  • sorrowsticksorrowstick Joined: Posts: 253
    u absorbed the vocabulary here quite well, perhaps you should play more insteadt of reading here, I am sure I would beat you easuily

    check your spelling and do mind to read below:
    Dude i feel like you harass peoples posts so much. whats up? every time i see you quote someone its you talking shit. chill out

    well i need to do something when some people used to come out with stupid opinion and teach others how to direspect during particular online session. E.G: it is kinda **** ethics to kick people outta endless lobby just because he pick a random mash character/taunter. If you hate someone, its better you qq rather than kick him/her outta endless lobby. Spare a chance and let your most hated opponent to play against others as well, if you refuse to spar.
    trollfighting, guessing game, random mash & taunting are legit...offline or online.
  • Ryuken9Ryuken9 Joined: Posts: 504
    Akuma has the easiest high-damage combos in the game. that tatsu into dp crap is ridiculous. Now you try Dan ( my main)'s combos and you'll see what pain is

    It's 290, Ken can do that with a roundhouse into HK Tatsu, Seth can do 350 in the corner with just S.HP - HK Legs - Stomps, he does 280 with CR.HP - LP.SRK - Stomps anywhere on screen, a lot of chars in SF4 can do good damage really easily
    SSF4 AE : Seth/Ken/Sagat/Evil Ryu

    PSN is full of pussies
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Baton Rouge, Lousiana Joined: Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭✭
    Akuma has the easiest high-damage combos in the game. that tatsu into dp crap is ridiculous. Now you try Dan ( my main)'s combos and you'll see what pain is

    He does have some technical combos, but they really aren't needed. The technical aspect of Akuma went out the window with his Vanilla nerfs.

    BTW a lot of characters hit as hard as Akuma. On average Akuma hits around 300-350 in a realistic match. It's just he has tools to open people up with.
    Σ(All Hits) = K.O.
    "You don't become good at anything in life by understanding how to do it, you become good at it by understanding why you do it."
  • PsychocultPsychocult Joined: Posts: 50
    I voted for Viper, for obvious reasons, yet Dan would be my top pick. :p
  • MingoDynastyMingoDynasty PC gaming master race Joined: Posts: 5,465
    Everyone should probably just ignore this sorrowstick troll.
    Gen and Viper are much more technical.
    What exactly about CViper is so technical? Besides SJC, FFF, and IABK execution, and imo "execution" is not the same thing as "technical".

    Everytime someone says CViper is technical, I always think it's simply because they don't have the execution to play her or do her stuff.
  • sorrowsticksorrowstick Joined: Posts: 253
    Everyone should probably just ignore this sorrowstick troll.

    What exactly about CViper is so technical? Besides SJC, FFF, and IABK execution, and imo "execution" is not the same thing as "technical".

    Everytime someone says CViper is technical, I always think it's simply because they don't have the execution to play her or do her stuff.
    i no troll......i was just defending elfuerte players who seldom given a chance to fight. what is wrong with that?
    trollfighting, guessing game, random mash & taunting are legit...offline or online.
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭✭✭
    What exactly about CViper is so technical?
    imo "execution" is not the same thing as "technical".
    You've already answered your own question. You don't think execution counts towards whether or not a character can be considered "technical". Most other people do.
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Baton Rouge, Lousiana Joined: Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭✭
    Everyone should probably just ignore this sorrowstick troll.

    What exactly about CViper is so technical? Besides SJC, FFF, and IABK execution, and imo "execution" is not the same thing as "technical".

    Everytime someone says CViper is technical, I always think it's simply because they don't have the execution to play her or do her stuff.

    She isn't technical to you because you do not define technical as execution. If you give me a definition I'll give you an answer.
    Σ(All Hits) = K.O.
    "You don't become good at anything in life by understanding how to do it, you become good at it by understanding why you do it."
  • MafamaticksMafamaticks Where'd ya life go? Joined: Posts: 553
    are we rating execution while considering efficiency? if not then i would rate guiles execution harder than everyone]

    It's a combo vid though.
  • MingoDynastyMingoDynasty PC gaming master race Joined: Posts: 5,465
    Finally discovered the first page of this thread, lol.
    Viper's technical difficulty is not based around FFF. But let's not kid ourselves here - no newcomer is going to pick up Viper and consistently do FFF Ex Seismo SJC BK/TK on day 1. No matter how you look at it, that's one of the hardest BnB's in the game. And yet, that's probably the easiest technique to learn when playing Viper. Even stuff like low SJC BKs are deceptively hard because of the input blindspot that most players don't know about (there are a few frames during your SJ startup where button presses aren't registered). Yeah once you get it down it's a piece of cake, but it actually does take a lot of practice to learn how to target your BKs properly.

    Meterless FADC is hard. Raw wakeup feints are hard. Seismo zoning and feinting is hard. Anti-airing correctly is hard. Manually eyeing the height for Ultra juggles takes tons of practice and experience. Even pros drop this occasionally.

    Obviously you can play her without doing any of these things, just like you can play Gen in one stance only.

    Personally I do think Gen is more technical but that doesn't mean that I think Viper is "as easy" as the rest of the cast.
    By the same token, wouldn't Ibuki also require very high execution?

    No newcomer is going to pick up Ibuki and consistently do Tsumuji loops (1f link jab) on day 1. This isn't necessarily Ibuki's bnb, but it definitely is if you want your combos to do more damage than Yang's.

    SJC BK? I'll match you with cr.HP xx jump kunai (a tight link on most characters, and character specific to boot). Meterless FADC? Exact same input as Ibuki's SJC command dash (except obviously you're pressing MP+MK instead of any kick button).

    b+MP -> cd -> cl.st.HK -> SJC cd -> cr.HP -> SJC cd is "hard" (I think it's easy but I guess not everyone is an Ibuki main). Raw feints can be made easy with a PPP button, but unless you're spamming HP TK feints like a madman (hi Latif), you typically only need to do it once, on wakeup.

    Eyeing the correct spacing and situations where you can use U2 takes imo more practice and experience, because it's not necessarily something you can grind out in the training room. By correct spacing to use U2, I mean for example against Ryu/Sagat there's a spacing where if you do U2 to punish a fireball, your opponent will get hit... then drop out. Not only this, you can't tell if you were too close or too far (e.g. it's possible to be really far and have the first hit of the ultra miss, then everything else will connect nicely).

    Antiairing with Ibuki is hard too. Do you use b+MP? What about nj.MK? Raida? EX Kazegiri? Depending on who my opponent is and whether or not they have a jump trajectory altering move (e.g. dive kick), the antiair I choose may or may not be reliable. With CViper, all you have to do is do HP TK, and do it early. Hits early -> get free ultra. Did it too late and traded? Still get a free ultra, yay!

    My argument against CViper is that once you get beyond her petty execution requirements, she does not have any worthwhile tight (1f) links, except maybe counterhit MP TK into cr.MP, and she does not have many character specifics to memorize except for safe jumps and some unblockables.

    The clear winner to this poll should probably be Gen, by a long shot, because no matter how you define technical, Gen will still be the most demanding.
  • mapleleafs791mapleleafs791 I wish I knew how to quit you... Joined: Posts: 559 ✭✭✭
    Finally discovered the first page of this thread, lol.

    By the same token, wouldn't Ibuki also require very high execution?

    No newcomer is going to pick up Ibuki and consistently do Tsumuji loops (1f link jab) on day 1. This isn't necessarily Ibuki's bnb, but it definitely is if you want your combos to do more damage than Yang's.

    SJC BK? I'll match you with cr.HP xx jump kunai (a tight link on most characters, and character specific to boot). Meterless FADC? Exact same input as Ibuki's SJC command dash (except obviously you're pressing MP+MK instead of any kick button).

    b+MP -> cd -> cl.st.HK -> SJC cd -> cr.HP -> SJC cd is "hard" (I think it's easy but I guess not everyone is an Ibuki main). Raw feints can be made easy with a PPP button, but unless you're spamming HP TK feints like a madman (hi Latif), you typically only need to do it once, on wakeup.

    Eyeing the correct spacing and situations where you can use U2 takes imo more practice and experience, because it's not necessarily something you can grind out in the training room. By correct spacing to use U2, I mean for example against Ryu/Sagat there's a spacing where if you do U2 to punish a fireball, your opponent will get hit... then drop out. Not only this, you can't tell if you were too close or too far (e.g. it's possible to be really far and have the first hit of the ultra miss, then everything else will connect nicely).

    Antiairing with Ibuki is hard too. Do you use b+MP? What about nj.MK? Raida? EX Kazegiri? Depending on who my opponent is and whether or not they have a jump trajectory altering move (e.g. dive kick), the antiair I choose may or may not be reliable. With CViper, all you have to do is do HP TK, and do it early. Hits early -> get free ultra. Did it too late and traded? Still get a free ultra, yay!

    My argument against CViper is that once you get beyond her petty execution requirements, she does not have any worthwhile tight (1f) links, except maybe counterhit MP TK into cr.MP, and she does not have many character specifics to memorize except for safe jumps and some unblockables.

    The clear winner to this poll should probably be Gen, by a long shot, because no matter how you define technical, Gen will still be the most demanding.

    lol ironically i made a post the same as this but i deleted it cause i was like "wtf am i doing in here" but really i feel like alot of people rate viper so high cause she presses alot of buttons per minute and uses unconventional methods such as FFF and super jump canceling and feinting, which doesn't transfer to other chars like most chars do to other cast members.
    XBL GT: Chilaisho
    SSF4 AE 2012: Cody, Evil Ryu
    SFxT: Law, Kazuya
    UMvC3: Magneto, Dormammu, Dr. Doom
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭✭✭
    By the same token, wouldn't Ibuki also require very high execution?
    No, you don't need tsumuji loops to be effective with Ibuki as you need with Viper at the same level of play.

    Gen is technical yes, most people agree. But just because he is a technical character, it doesn't mean Viper isn't. I don't feel like breaking down every single point you make because at some level every character can make the same arguments. The point is that to be effective with Viper requires more technical skill than being effective with most other chars in the game. If you think this isn't true, then your points about Ibuki are moot IMO for obvious reasons. Besides that, if you argue that Viper can do certain things with a PPP button, then in the same token Ibuki can hit 1f links easier by rewiring a controller to enable plinking with back/select.

    I will say though that anti-airing with Ibuki is much easier than AA'ing with Viper. Close st.hk, b.mp, kazegiri, air-throw and raida cover most options much easier and more effectively and safely than HP TK, far st.hk, and close st.mk IMO. Viper is defensively much more technical than Ibuki. This is a no-brainer IMO. I'm not saying this out of bias, I'm saying this just from plain experience and observation from both characters. Just because someone can do things with Viper that most Viper players will consider "basic", it doesn't really mean that that person will know how to react and what to do in other situations, and execute effectively in a real match.
  • MingoDynastyMingoDynasty PC gaming master race Joined: Posts: 5,465
    No, you don't need tsumuji loops to be effective with Ibuki as you need with Viper at the same level of play.
    So you're saying CViper has 1f links she needs to learn in order to get damage?
    Gen is technical yes, most people agree. But just because he is a technical character, it doesn't mean Viper isn't.
    CViper is certainly technical to some degree, but the discussion is pointless when Gen is miles ahead of everyone else.
    I don't feel like breaking down every single point you make because at some level every character can make the same arguments. The point is that to be effective with Viper requires more technical skill than being effective with most other chars in the game. If you think this isn't true, then your points about Ibuki are moot IMO for obvious reasons.
    Great way to avoid explaining anything.
    Besides that, if you argue that Viper can do certain things with a PPP button, then in the same token Ibuki can hit 1f links easier by rewiring a controller to enable plinking with back/select.
    Having a PPP button is standard on almost every stick, and even if you factor in button rewiring, the fact is that feints are not a 1f timing like loops are.
    I will say though that anti-airing with Ibuki is much easier than AA'ing with Viper. Close st.hk, b.mp, kazegiri, air-throw and raida cover most options much easier and more effectively and safely than HP TK, far st.hk, and close st.mk IMO.
    The fact that Ibuki has more than a handful different antiairs and you actually have to think about the situation, makes it harder to antiair, no?
    Viper is defensively much more technical than Ibuki. This is a no-brainer IMO.
    Explain please.
2
Sign In or Register to comment.