What makes Shotos so appealing? What's fun about simply backing up and spamming fireballs?

User_ · January 7

I bought SF 4 AE for the PC, and am fairly new to it (had it about a month). Whenever I go online, I usually choose characters like Hakan and Zangief. I always, always face people who instalock as ryu or akuma (before I choose)/ That's it. all they do the whole game is back up and spam fireballs, until I get close enough to grab them, where I usually win. Keep in mind, some of these guys have close to 4000 BP and PP, while I have 300 pp. No variation, no other attacks. How is that fun? I can't see the appeal or the excitement of it, and it's so easy to counter.

EDIT: K, I guess it makes sense that you should play defensive against grapplers

ANOTHER EDIT: This was posted when I was facing like a 20 game losing streak against shotos, so this may be considered a complaint etc. I understand the main points, and i'll learn my matchups better etc.

Dustehh · January 7

Because at lower levels of game play, i.e. online, it is easier to take advantage of people that are inexperienced with such derp tactics. Mashing uppercuts and throwing fireballs are extremely viable tactics against unfamiliar players. If these strategies score them wins, then I am sure that they are having fun.

Necrotrophic · January 7

Ryus strength is in his zoning. Its not easy to counter if the Ryu player has good spacing and anti air. This generally goes for all shotos but there are variations on them in terms of strengths.

Also, the PC community has a lot of inexperienced players (there are exceptions though) in my opinion, so its no surprise that you are playing people who aren't zoning you correctly

NickRocks · January 7

try it maybe youll find out :coffee:

bkfst_sausage · January 7

Some people have fun playing baseball...
Some people have fun playing chess...
Some people have fun playing with themselves...

Louiscipher · January 7

Because they're extremely easy to use and most of the time they're the main character. To the casual mind the main character equals a good character to start with.

pherai · January 7

its your choice of grapplers that is forcing every shoto player you play against to play boring runaway every match. grapplers suck the fun out of every matchup

PurpleLemonadeGGPO · January 7

obviously everyone should be running straight at your zangief so you can grab them

Ouroborus · January 7

how else are you supposed to fight grapplers?

if you have a fireball, use it.

Eirokaj · January 7

When you go up against Shoto players in general, always expect "zoning." This is the key fundamentals for them, so that they can control the flow of the match. It looks annoying at first glance, but when you, yourself, get to understand the basics of fighting games overall, then you'll get the gist of why they must depend on that fundamental. There are ways to out beat zoning characters, you just gotta learn the match-ups and use that knowledge to your advantage.

Play safe, think wisely.

Buster Cannon · January 7

I can't speak for SF4 as I've never played it, but 3S shotos are super fun to play.

HvisLysetTarAustin · January 7

All right I over think shit a lot so if you don't have to read this

My theory is that the Steam sale of $13.50 with all the DLC caused the servers to become filled with tons of new people who would not be playing otherwise. Since this is PC, and fighting games are not what most people go for on Steam, my guess is that 1. they don't have a stick, or even a controller; 2. all they remember about Street Fighter is picking Ryu as a kid.

Because face it, he was the hero of the game, and the other guy had basically the same moves, it's natural to expect a majority of players consider shotos to be the embodiment, and primary pop culture representative of Street Fighter.

So voila, low ranks on Steam is probably at the highest casual:dedicated ratio ever.

Though it seems like you're included in the former. No offense. You have a lot of resources here on the forums and Youtube, but basically you need to understand that specific matchups (i.e. Zangief vs. Ryu, Guile vs. Dhalsim) are inherently played in a certain way. Just go to SF4Tube.com where you can filter by exact matchup and you'll see what I mean. Or just view high level players' replays on GFWL. Don't feel bad though, I am no pro either.

ilitirit · January 7

You should keep in mind that if you had a character that had easy ways around fireballs you probably wouldn't complain about this. Grapplers have a hard time against zoners in general, but overcoming the challenge presented by a character with good zoning is part of the fun.

doubleoh · January 7

Street Fighter is kind of an RPG. Each character is kind of his/her own class. It's up to you to find the one you like, stick with it and learn how to counter the other classes. Hakan and Zangief are grapplers... they are dangerous up close. Most players do not want to be close to you, ever. Those who use characters with zoning tools will zone you when they can. Space properly and punish. Hover right outside Ryu's crouching forward range and punish him with a jump-in when he uses Hadoken like an idiot.

And people pick shotos because they are easy to use and do not require complex motions. Also because they are afraid of not having a crutch DP to bail them out of tough situations where they are forced to think. Learn to bait it and punish accordingly. Eventually shotos become easy prey because 98% of the people who use them suck ass at Street Fighter.

Emil · January 7

User_, post: 7874426, member: 83148 wrote:

I can't see the appeal or the excitement of it, and it's so easy to counter.

User_, post: 7874426, member: 83148 wrote:

ANOTHER EDIT: This was posted when I was facing like a 20 game losing streak against shotos

The Martian · January 7

Shotos are accessible. They're used so often probably because they're easy to pick up and learn, they don't have that many bad matchups, and they have lots of options. I myself don't really see the appeal, but that's only because they're just a bore to me honestly. Just seems like a copout alternative to learning a more unique character's ins and outs. But I guess the low-risk factor of chucking plasma is more appealing to some than others.

That's not to say that there aren't shoto players who do play their character just because of preference, though. Some are incredible, but it seems that most are just using the character as a shortcut to compensate for their lack will to learn a deeper character with more options. (A.K.A the plasma chuckers)

But whatever. I'll just quick spin kunckle through em' all. :coffee:

However, for you non-Cammy players who feel the need to make these anti-shoto threads...might I just suggest...

JUMPING.

Homunculi · January 7

Honestly, it's not that bad to face against projectile spammers, cause they rarely know what to do when you get in close on them and don't eat the inevitable srk.

The Martian, post: 7874777, member: 80076 wrote:

However, for you non-Cammy players who feel the need to make these anti-shoto threads...might I just suggest...

JUMPING.

BUT THEY TOLD ME TO NOT JUMP EVER!!1

tenshoxxx · January 8

Homunculi, post: 7874790, member: 22619 wrote:

Honestly, it's not that bad to face against projectile spammers, cause they rarely know what to do when you get in close on them and don't eat the inevitable srk.

BUT THEY TOLD ME TO NOT JUMP EVER!!1

They lied.

Darksydefluffy · January 8

The simplicity.

Scrubby Adrian · January 8

Street Fighter, and any other game with one winner and one loser, is about winning. People will do whatever it takes to win. If you can't figure out how to get past their zoning, it's on you friend.

CrystalCore · January 9

User_, post: 7874426, member: 83148 wrote:

I bought SF 4 AE for the PC, and am fairly new to it (had it about a month). Whenever I go online, I usually choose characters like Hakan and Zangief. I always, always face people who instalock as ryu or akuma (before I choose)/ That's it. all they do the whole game is back up and spam fireballs, until I get close enough to grab them, where I usually win. Keep in mind, some of these guys have close to 4000 BP and PP, while I have 300 pp. No variation, no other attacks. How is that fun? I can't see the appeal or the excitement of it, and it's so easy to counter.
.

Well, spam them back!

Like a Boss! .... an SNK Boss!

CapoeiraMataUm · January 9

1) Shoryuken. They have a move that can beat out just about anything else in the game
2) Fireballs. They can run away all day and shoryuken if you manage to get close
3) Tatsu. Either running away or just having a high priority air attacks you can't do too much about in a lot of cases

Then there's the whole main character thing, the weird idea that Ken is cool (really?), and so on.

All in all, you can't do anything about it but learn to fight them. They'll probably be the most commonly used characters in every SF game ever

tenshoxxx · January 9

Success with Shotos is easier to achieve at a beginner level than with characters without an invincible reversal (e.g. shoryuken) or a fireball.
They are like the swiss army knife, you got an option for a lot of situations, this doesn´t mean that´s the best option available, but at least you have one ;)
This evens out in the long run and later on, you will realize that actually it´s not easy to be consistent/successful with any character without investing a big deal of your time.

petran79 · January 9

Buster Cannon, post: 7874489, member: 5498 wrote:

I can't speak for SF4 as I've never played it, but 3S shotos are super fun to play.

In Vampire Savior 1, the opposite happens. Shoto's are avoided since they are low tier.

Komatik · January 9

The Martian, post: 7874777, member: 80076 wrote:

...accessible. They're used so often probably because they're easy to pick up and learn, they don't have that many bad matchups, and they have lots of options. ...just a bore to me honestly. Just seems like a copout alternative to learning a .. character's ins and outs. But I guess the low-risk factor ... is more appealing to some than others.

That's not to say that there aren't ... players who do play their character just because of preference, though. Some are incredible, but it seems that most are just using the character as a shortcut to compensate for their lack will to learn a deeper character with more options. (A.K.A ... Cammy players ...might I just suggest...

JUMPING.

(...off a bridge. Not to death, silly. But a cold swim seems appropriate).

Sorry, couldn't resist. Still, funny to see a Cammy player calling some other character a cop-out.

The Martian · January 9

Komatik, post: 7879512, member: 63434 wrote:

(...off a bridge. Not to death, silly. But a cold swim seems appropriate).

Sorry, couldn't resist. Still, funny to see a Cammy player calling some other character a cop-out.

Not my fault you guys don't know how to block properly ;)

BDl · January 9

The Martian, post: 7879549, member: 80076 wrote:

Not my fault you guys don't know how to block properly ;)

I bet you yourself don't know which side that BS lands in 70% of the cases.

doubleoh · January 9

Martian, you're hardly in a position to talk.

SpaceOutNightmare · January 9

petran79, post: 7879508, member: 51716 wrote:

In Vampire Savior 1, the opposite happens. Shoto's are avoided since they are low tier.

Demitri's low tier?

I always thought he was mid, at least, that was what I felt from my discussion about him with others.

Morrigan and Lilith, sure, but I don't think I would call Lilith a shoto, I guess she's the "dan" of shotos?

AirLancer · January 9

SpaceOutNightmare, post: 7879646, member: 74440 wrote:

Morrigan and Lilith, sure, but I don't think I would call Lilith a shoto, I guess she's the "dan" of shotos?

I would say Dan is the Dan of Shotos.

Shiroyasha · January 9

Komatik, post: 7879512, member: 63434 wrote:

(...off a bridge. Not to death, silly. But a cold swim seems appropriate).

Sorry, couldn't resist. Still, funny to see a Cammy player calling some other character a cop-out.

I wonder how long it will take for people to realize that cammys divekicks will never crossup unless they're using proper setups after hardknockdowns (backthrow, character specific combos into sweep etc)

oh I forgot this is srk. NEVERMIND ME GUYS

sorrowstick · January 9

man i hate shotos.....the presence of this character makes this game too typical and dull.
seems like i fight against the same character whenever any shoto pop up online....

don't these shoto player have guts to try something else like chargers or grapplers?

and i hope capcom would change poison in sfxt to be chargers instead of shoto.

The Martian · January 9

doubleoh, post: 7879639, member: 69866 wrote:

Martian, you're hardly in a position to talk.

Explain.

doubleoh · January 9

The Martian, post: 7880701, member: 80076 wrote:

Explain.

Shiroyasha, post: 7879978, member: 81074 wrote:

I wonder how long it will take for people to realize that cammys divekicks will never crossup unless they're using proper setups after hardknockdowns (backthrow, character specific combos into sweep etc)

oh I forgot this is srk. NEVERMIND ME GUYS

Oh wait, you use Juri and Cammy. Have you ever had to space yourself properly so you can hitconfirm a combo off the ground? Footsies is hard. LOLZ NAW DIVEKICKS 4 LYFE BRAH

petran79 · January 10

SpaceOutNightmare, post: 7879646, member: 74440 wrote:

Demitri's low tier?

I always thought he was mid, at least, that was what I felt from my discussion about him with others.

Morrigan and Lilith, sure, but I don't think I would call Lilith a shoto, I guess she's the "dan" of shotos?

He's mid-tier but he's faster and more demanding than using your average Ryu or Ken. Plus he has that reverse DP special and a 360 degree grab.
Generally I avoid shotos in most fighters, except VS.

hauau · January 10

They are easy to use. They are just a bit better than average in everything. And, of course, they make a certain kind of players salty. Last one is priceless.

Shiroyasha · January 10

doubleoh, post: 7880878, member: 69866 wrote:

Oh wait, you use Juri and Cammy. Have you ever had to space yourself properly so you can hitconfirm a combo off the ground? Footsies is hard. LOLZ NAW DIVEKICKS 4 LYFE BRAH

you're utterly retarded if you really think that Juris divekicks are safe on block and she doesnt require spacing at all

abkallday · January 10

Easy to play

Krisppy · January 10

because its effective and fun to annoy people who take the game serious but dont agree with zoning. thats like asking why does the team that scored the touchdown get back on defence.

helhelhelhelo · January 11

Shotos are basic characters.. their gameplay style is friendly to the players.. the fireball spamming technique although unnecessary, is actually a good way to rack up pressure.. you just have to deal with it strategically

CobraKai · January 11

I love it how you play some people and they message you at how they are superior cos they aren't using a shoto.

WTF when did it become a girlie fashion show ?

sorrowstick · January 11

hauau, post: 7883274, member: 70817 wrote:

They are easy to use. They are just a bit better than average in everything. And, of course, they make a certain kind of players salty. Last one is priceless.

if it so why so many shotos qq against elf.....? funny thing is some shoto player send salty message to demand elf player to stop mix up, gimmick, and random. in fact shoto player did ask elfuerte player to play in pattern which easier to read.

but who the hell in the world wanna be a flowchart player? ask ken.......he a flowchart shoto.

CrystalCore · January 12

sorrowstick, post: 7887874, member: 80605 wrote:

if it so why so many shotos qq against elf.....? funny thing is some shoto player send salty message to demand elf player to stop mix up, gimmick, and random. in fact shoto player did ask elfuerte player to play in pattern which easier to read.
.

Someone actually sent a message to another player, asking them to attack in patterns? That kinda defeats the purpose of playing fighting games, which is to be, uh random in one's attacks?

sorrowstick · January 12

yeah........you may ask anybody here who complaints this game is broken since the developer allow random mashing and mix up. funny thing is most of them are ryu, ken and akuma players. i haven't heard elf and bison players whinning about random mix up.

ahdonye · January 12

Using the term spamming should get you grounded for a week :)

Frank Lucas · January 12

I enjoy using Ryu as it's the character I feel most comfortable with and used to play with way back in SF2. Since you will always come up against this character using him effectively becomes increasingly difficult. I've done the mirror match to death so I get blind-sided when I come up against rarer characters like Gen or Juri. If SF4 is your first fighting game then fair enough. But since the fundamentals of shotos hasn't changed much since SF2 it just sounds weird to hear complaints about how they're played in this day and age. I mean, how often can you get caught out by the same tactic? Experienced Ryu players will know there's much more to shotos than fireball spam!

Pugz

Pugz

Ryuken9 · January 15

As a beginner I never had any problems dealing with shotos, I played Sagat but still, characters will really unorthodox playstyles are much harder to deal with.

CrystalCore · January 15

ahdonye, post: 7889891, member: 31885 wrote:

Using the term spamming should get you grounded for a week :)

blufang · January 16

1. Ryu is the hero of the game, Ken is the Americanized version of the hero...brasher more outspoken.

2. You have a good fireball, an excellent dragon punch, solid normals, cross over hurricane kicks. You may not be the best at anything but you are real good in most situations, so you rarely feel you are in a bad spot.

3. Ryu and Ken are easy to pick up, and there is no quicker way to earn PP in the lower and intermediate levels. They are also tournament viable, well Ryu is at least.

Vulpes · January 19

blufang, post: 7903111, member: 6663 wrote:

3. Ryu and Ken are easy to pick up, and there is no quicker way to earn PP in the lower and intermediate levels.

Blanka, Honda, Boxer, Dictator, ..

blufang · January 19

Vulpes, post: 7915452, member: 57311 wrote:

Blanka, Honda, Boxer, Dictator, ..

I'm sorry you are correct. Those characters are the key to easy PP, you don't even need to know any combos. I win like 90% of my matches with honda despite never learning him, and with Oni...let's just say my percentage is way way worse and I've spent more time on him than any other character.

What makes Shotos so appealing? What's fun about simply backing up and spamming fireballs?

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