How is your team vs. Morridoom? Is it the team or Chris G?

24

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  • KarsticlesKarsticles Greetings. Joined: Posts: 2,649
    I think there are two strategies to beating ChrisG's team:
    1) Teams that don't let the bullet hell get started. Examples: Spencer/Bolts of Balthakk, Captain America/Unibeam, Wolverine/Tatsu. You need to kill her ASAP and never let her breathe.

    2) Teams that can always threaten a Dr. Doom kill. Examples: Hawkeye/Storm, Magneto/Sentinel, Thor/Arthur. Basically, you need a point character with an aerial hyper, preferably a fast one, and a second character that you can DHC into, XFC, and kill Doom with. All three of the characters I listed will destroy all of the Soul Fists you have to worry about when DHCed into.

    There are a lot of lesser options, but they're less dependable. Characters with really good anti-air capabilities. I'm talking about She-Hulk's Taking out the Trash and Frank West's Funny Face Smasher. Characters that can stall out Astral Vision. Repulsar Blast, MODOK's flight, Taskmaster's counters, Amaterasu's reflector, etc. Characters with AoE aerial hypers like Skrull's Inferno or Nova's Nova Force - good for hitting her on a moment's notice while destroying missiles, and you can XFC for the kill. Characters with mix-up hyper + pinning hyper setups (Machine Gun Spray + Proton Cannon, Bionic Lancer + Million Dollars). Teams with Strider + teleporters can test your opponent's reaction times.

    I listed a lot of stuff here that I think definitely works or has potential, and very little of it has actually been used to try and counter Morrigan. I would love to see some good players try these things out, or just something new in general.
    "Karst" for short.
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  • maziodynemaziodyne I'll crush you in one strike! Joined: Posts: 7,564
    I'm more for the Chris G is Chris G/unoptimized teams opinion. It's quickly becoming the standard for determining whether or not your team is good, at least in theory. If you can't at least fight Morrigan/Doom (which is by no means unbeatable), you and your team have some serious problems.

    Game is not just about picking your 3 favorite characters or "2 characters and a dark anchor" anymore. Your team has to have some really solid synergy all throughout if you want to compete with Morrigan/Doom. Chris is an amazing player no doubt, and personally one of my favorite players to watch. Hell, Morrigan/Vergil/Doom might even be endgame for all we know. But unless people start picking the optimized stuff and learn the matchup, he'll keep looking like he's unbeatable, when he isn't.

    Chris is just "that guy" in tournaments, like Daigo was back in his heyday. If you had him in your pools, you were probably going to lose unless you really trained hard, and he had the biggest chance of winning out of everybody free (at least that's what it seemed like). People did get better and learned the matchup (both the character AND the player), and now we got people like Infiltration in AE becoming the new "that guy" whom everybody wants to try to beat. Chris set one of the first benchmarks in Marvel by dominating with Morrigan/Doom in tournament. Now unless people want to stop making it seem like they're just adding to his rent money every time they pay the tournament, they'll optimize their stuff and learn not to be afraid of him.
    Retired Mahvel scrub.
  • AlphaCommandoAlphaCommando Bob Ross-ing That Bitch Joined: Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sabertooth*/Luke Cage/Luke Cage is the best counter to MorriDoom.
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  • eivellordsm2eivellordsm2 Macho Barbarian dongzilla Joined: Posts: 1,334
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 7,921 ✭✭✭✭✭
    oh thought it did :p
    Mystic ray is not going to do much vs morridoom. You might as well just pick hidden missiles to counter hidden missiles.
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  • KresentKresent He whose name is forever misspelled Joined: Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭
    My Firebrand/Dormammu/Akuma team has had mixed results
    We have a Sentinel/Morrigan/Doom player here that I play a lot.

    As far as Firebrand vs Morrigan, I don't have trouble unless she gets Astral Vision started. I can hang near the top of the screen and avoid stuff for a while but the chip damage really adds up and it's really hard for Firebrand to get close. But if I can get the pressure started, it's fine.
    Though this normally isn't the case because Firebrand tends to end up fighting Sentinel with Missiles instead (In my case).

    Dormammu does well against Morrigan but just like others, he has trouble with Astral Vision. I recently upgraded my movement with Dormammu and it has been helping a lot in this match-up but sometimes I still get chipped out. Dormammu seems to win when Astral Vision isn't involved but I tend to do things like the wrong pillar when she is air dashing so I lose Dormammu for it.

    Akuma has a lot of trouble here IMO, unless I am stocked on meter. He dies to chip so fast and his normals are bad for fighting Morrigan or Sentinel and Doom can just run away (Though this is rarely a problem). Tatsu doesn't really helpagainst Soul Fist because he gets slightly taller when he Tatsus (Because he leaves the ground), so the top row of fireballs hit him. He can Demon Flip around to avoid Missiles, but he can't outzone her and it's a tough time getting in. And any time you try to beam, Morrigan can unfly or do Shadow Servant hyper (The pillars, I think)

    The DHCs on my team make this a lot better of a fight for me, BUT I still need to build the meter.

    We used to go even but lately I've been losing to him. The last few times though, I have been keeping it close.


    Personally, I think all the power behind the team right now is ChrisG. He stepped up to be the team's "face". It just happens that he's also the best at UMVC3.
    I think it's beatable, but you have to be very patient and you can't let any openings slip by. ChrisG just knows how to be where you don't want him to be
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  • Zmoney2006Zmoney2006 ifitswrong Joined: Posts: 29
    Ok first let me just state I won't be answering the post questions in order.

    Do you believe the team is truly that unbeatable or do you believe it’s more Chris G?

    Personally, I believe Chris G's success with this team is honestly 50% Chris G, 10% the team, and 40% Human Nature vs Playing to Win.

    Chris G is smart. He has excellent execution and a very intelligent head on his shoulders. He also has a very long history in FGs so he has experience in common human tendencies and what to do and not do in general situations he may come across. Chris has shown multiple times in the past that he can win not just matches but tourneys with a multitude of different characters in the roster. This tells me that it's more the player and the knowledge of the game he possesses then the specific teams he uses.

    However Chris is not perfect nor can he defy the rules that make up the game. He didn't stick with this team for the lulz. It’s a powerful team (will get into later) but he can only do what his characters allow him to do; and thus others can do the same.

    To this day I still don't understand how Chris is able to steamroll through endless players all over the East Coast so easily and how nobody has stepped up to contest him on a regular basis. He's good but he's not perfect. He has experience but so do others; yet Chris still always wins and now I feel I have a good grasp as to why: Human Nature vs Playing to Win.

    People tend to lead to the path of least resistance. People tend to stick with what they know or what they are comfortable with even sometimes when it isn’t in their best interest. Sh*t I have a tendency to stick to the first route I learn to get from Point A to Point B even if a shorter, easier, or less economic path is discovered. People as a whole just don’t like change. People don’t like being out of control. People like praise and overcoming intense odds against them. All of these tendencies are just human nature.

    Let’s apply this knowledge to FGs. Players usually pick characters and teams that they relate to. If they like rushdown and high pressure situations, they usually pick characters that reflect that such as wolvie, Vergil, etc. If the player is more defensive based they might choose characters that allow them to zone, run away, timer scam, etc such as Modok, Dorm . Some players have a history playing underused or lower tier characters and have made a title or name for themselves doing so and due to that feel obligated to stick with said characters. Some players just like to play characters they grew up with or feel that they connect with. Some Players love item/projectiles… you get the idea.

    There is NOTHING wrong with these tendencies or mentality. It feels wonderful to win with the character(s) you have grown to know and love or ending the game with the super long and convoluted combo you came up with after grinding hours in training room or being known for being competent and efficient with certain lower tier characters. It also adds hype to the game and makes it less stale. Let’ s just make this one thing clear though: If these previous tendencies are current tendencies for you right now, you are NOT playing to win.

    The problem with this mentality however is that if you’re Playing to Win what YOU want, what YOU’RE known far, who YOU like doesn’t equate to SH*T.

    Chris G understands this and while he might like certain characters over others, his teams are not comprised of strictly his fan favorites. Players these days are too wrapped up in their own personal desires and tendencies to make efficient and smart decisions and then want the answers spoon fed or the problem resolved externally instead of trying to surmise the real issue at hand. Oh so you’re known for your Hsien-Ko? Sorry, I didn’t realize your “fame” had the power to alter the game and change the character’s properties so they became better. Sorry kid but the world doesn’t work like that. You can be the best Zangief in the world but your matchup against Sagat isn’t going to be any less severe because your name is attached to it -_-. Oh you grew up with the RE series so you really wanna make Chris work on your team. Fine. But when I choose doom and float at the top of the screen the whole match leaving you laying on the ground prone crying yourself to sleep tonight don’t bitch. Hey dude, awesome combo! Too bad you got eliminated for pushing so hard to get iti when all you needed was xfactor to win...

    Look at JUST the EC players. RayRay, Alucard, Yipes, etc all experiencing team changes from the characters they are known for. Why? Because they are establishing the mentality of Play To Win.

    YOU CANNOT expect to be the best or beat the best when you’re stuck on Human Tendencies. A player with the TRUE Playing to Win mindset will ALWAYS beat a player without. Point Blank.

    People need to understand that the true power behind Chris G’s success over EVERYTHING else is his MENTALITY. Chris has made it perfectly clear what his intentions are when dissecting a game and what his motivations and goals are when playing. Let me repeat this: Chris G, on MULTIPLE OCCASSIONS, has clearly stated what his goal is when training. He goes for the cheapest things possible. That’s it. And if you TRULY watch his matches and try to understand his reasoning behind his actions knowing his mantra, EVERYTHING becomes crystal clear.

    Now that may sound vague but really think about it. When Chris plays, how many times does he ever really do the most optimized combos for that character, or use the newest or strongest tech for that character, or risky and insane setups, or randomness? RARELY. Chris has made it a point to learn only what was necessary. If his character possesses a 24-hit insane combo but it will only take 6 hits to kill your current one, the thought to do the prior doesn’t even enter into his mind. No decision must be made as it was decided the second your health originally depleted. When a reset Is necessary sure he could setup a complex multi-layered multi-staged setup utilizing his assists and broken mechanics… or he could call one assist, teleport, and then rapid slash and boom same result with 3 extra seconds saved and no resources spent/lost that he hasn’t already accounted for, neither is he put into an unsafe situation. Playing to Win.

    Now this is not to say that in order to win you MUST pick the best of the best and drop anything and everything that isn’t optimal. You can still win a majority of your matches if you’re dedicate and experienced enough. However for those few times that come where your normal play just can’t get it done, unless you adopt the Play To Win way of thinking, you have no one but yourself to blame. Period.

    Another human tendency that people these days seem unable to get over is the negative connotation towards counter picking. Anyone who is against counter-picking does NOT have a Play To Win mentality. Period. Same as someone who uses the terms “spamming” and who complains about grabs as being trash have a scrub mentality.
    Players who refuse to adapt, don’t deserve to win.

    Yes you can learn the Sagat/Zangief matchup. Yes you can beat it and no you don’t HAVE to switch your character to do it. But let me ask you a question: when money is on the line or when you skills are being challenged or your hard work is being trashed on… when something important is at stake, why knowingly put yourself at a grave disadvantage to your opponent? It’s equivalent to putting a handicap on your health before starting the match. Pointless.

    There are plenty of teams that can beat Morri/Doom and plenty of combinations that can give that team a run for its money (will talk about later). But those teams might consists of characters or combinations of characters that you might not be privy to playing. Maybe the character moves slower then what you’re used to or maybe they aren’t a really rushed down based character or maybe they are a rushdown based character but they have to be played differently so as to utilize a specific tool or special ability to overcome the matchup. Whatever the case may be, it is up to YOU to accept what comes with the character and making it work for you. But the first step is accepting the fact that work is required and if it goes against your natural human tendency then it might be difficult.

    Personally I feel that before any nerfs/changes are made to a game any and all alternatives must be explored before taking action so unless you can play each and every character in this game and at least know of every possible combination or possibilities, you got some practice to get to.

    And what the hell happened to doing research? Does your opponent like to jump a lot? (*cough* *cough* Noel Brown *cough* You’re still awesome bro *cough*) How can you capitalize on that? Does your opponent have a hard time versus a certain character? Master him//her. Do you even know anything about your opponent whatsoever? No? Find some. Ask around. Watch matches. Challenge the individual. Sh*t I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been 0-10 by Josh Wong. Why? Because eventually he’ll kick the scrubby sh*t right on out of me. Everyone has tendencies and it’s YOUR job to find and utilize them.

    THAT is the key to Chris G’s success with this team.

    (Part Two on the way)
    [SIZE=12px]UMVC3: Main team = Spencer (H. Grapple Shot) / Dante (shots) / Doom (Missles)[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12px]Side team 1 = "Team InYoFace" = Firebrand (Demon Missle Charge) / Ammy (Cold Star) / Strange (Bolts)[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12px]Side team 2 = "Team Combos4Dayz" = [/SIZE][SIZE=12px][SIZE=12px]Dante (Jam) [/SIZE]) [/SIZE][SIZE=12px] /[/SIZE][SIZE=12px][SIZE=12px] Sentinel (Drones)[/SIZE] / Doom (Missles)[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12px]Side team 3 = "The Big and The Bad" = Nemesis (Launcher) / Haggar (Double Lariat) /Sentinel (Drones)[/SIZE]
  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    everytime someone thinks a character counters morrigan they get bodied.Remember when everyone said hawkeye would counter her?or dormammu and modok.hell i even think rocket raccoon can do decently against morridoom since he can go underground for 3 secs
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • cambosamcambosam Joined: Posts: 273
    against a morrigan on point what about assists that nullify or reflect the projectiles from the front, back, and up. reflector type assists, shield type assists but you have to position yourself inside of it. preferably ones that stay out there for a good amount of time and quick enough to be sent between fireballs.

    or against ground fireballs send out an assist that comes out from behind to absorb the fireball from behind with point countering with a hgher durability projectile or super.

    outside of rayray using the second strategy i've never seen anyone try using these strategies.
  • EricThe InternEricThe Intern I DROP COMBOSSSS!!! Joined: Posts: 369 ✭✭
    Snip

    That was an excellent read. I'm waiting for part two now.
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 3,676 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I say some people actually are playing to win. They just can't. Don't take away from the fact that ChrisG is really damn good.
    I saw the guy mention Yipes. He recently said he wasn't playing Vergil because he was getting boring.

    I tell you one thing, some characters or styles you can just play better than others. I tried the MorriDoom combo. It's not easy
    to keep doing consistently while keeping track of what your opponent is doing to stop it. MODOK/Morri/DOOM I think would be
    obnoxious. I've seen people practically shit themselves when they see MODOK building that meter from untouchable heights.




    Then they see my Morrigan is ass and I die lolololol
  • DensuoDensuo Winning by Timeout (⌐■_■) Joined: Posts: 6,759
    It's not just Chris G. Morridoom is end game right now. weaker players are using the team and having success.


    That said I chose Both. It is an end game team, but Chris G is a top tier player. Morrigan / Doom is reliable. and from there he can switch the third character dependant on his matchup needs.

    My team is Haggar Chris Taskmaster. My best chance would be Haggar assist eating the back fireball, with Chris landing a magnum on both Morrigan and Doom, blow X factor, dash tk Magnum dash S kill.

    For breaking the team I think Morrigan should either be taken out first if you can get her, or you should snap and Kill Doom. THEN kill the other person if said other person is a more dangerous threat than Morrigan on Anchor. If at anytime Doom was touched while on an assist call priority to shift to snapping in and killing doom unless again it's touch of death time for Morrigan.

    I agree with Zmoney on the fact that you must not be above counter picking.

    Chris G has Morridoom X where X is a counter pick. Are you a weak player? Derp you out with Vergil. anti zone? Hawkeye.

    Sanford has been raving about counter picks. its a part of the game. While the Japanese prefer to stick to learning their tough matchups (and we should too) there are times when you simply will have to counter pick. and you are going to want to switch your character.
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  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    for a year now people have been trying to kill morrigan with whatever team but why has no one snapped in doom,kill him and just runaway till morrigan runs out of meter
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • OerbaOerba Just a joke! Joined: Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭
    for a year now people have been trying to kill morrigan with whatever team but why has no one snapped in doom,kill him and just runaway till morrigan runs out of meter
    No one has snapped in Doom because no one has consistently hit his Morrigan XD
  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No one has snapped in Doom because no one has consistently hit his Morrigan XD
    Good point lol
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • OMG its a duckOMG its a duck Bruh I'm in down bad bruh Joined: Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭✭
    for a year now people have been trying to kill morrigan with whatever team but why has no one snapped in doom,kill him and just runaway till morrigan runs out of meter
    Run away from Morrigan? What's stopping her from just finding you, pinning you down with soul fists, and doing fair things to you?
  • EricThe InternEricThe Intern I DROP COMBOSSSS!!! Joined: Posts: 369 ✭✭
    Run away from Morrigan? What's stopping her from just finding you, pinning you down with soul fists, and doing fair things to you?
    What I believe Pavy was referring to wasn't so much just run away and kill the clock. He's saying make her come to you. She's exhausted her meter, and at this point she has to come to you and you're hoping that you can catch a mistake or get the upper hand.
  • OMG its a duckOMG its a duck Bruh I'm in down bad bruh Joined: Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭✭
    What I believe Pavy was referring to wasn't so much just run away and kill the clock. He's saying make her come to you. She's exhausted her meter, and at this point she has to come to you and you're hoping that you can catch a mistake or get the upper hand.
    But, you're full screen from Morrigan. What are you gonna do to beat her flood unless you're also Morrigan? Even without AV she can still get free approaches if you're just going to let her.
  • Shin-RonShin-Ron fb/dorm/jam Joined: Posts: 617
    youd have to be a real hatin ass type of dude to not give credit to chris g for the way he plays his morridoom and how he adjusts to other teams by changing around the 3rd character.

    chris team now isnt as bad or easy to play as viscants evo winning team back then and not too many people were saying it was only because of his team.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    youd have to be a real hatin ass type of dude to not give credit to chris g for the way he plays his morridoom and how he adjusts to other teams by changing around the 3rd character.

    chris team now isnt as bad or easy to play as viscants evo winning team back then and not too many people were saying it was only because of his team.


    Yeah Morrigan is the new Vanilla Phoenix as far as whar she adds to the meta. Which is character that allows you to control variance by occupying the screen with so much shit (including moves that track the opponent) that they are forced to play your game. Everyone hated how Dark Phoenix pretty much turned off running forward and pressing buttons for the opponent and that's also what MorriDoom does now.

    Its just unlike Dark Phoenix it kills you much more slowly on average and will seem to eventually have more cracks.

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  • EskillsEskills The Tyrant King Joined: Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭✭
    1. Main - Vergil/x-23/Magneto
    Secondary- Vergil/Doom/Strider

    I believe my teams handle morri/doom very well and I have played quite a few.
    I think what people need to do more is be more patient and not alot of people are capable of that because of how rushdown heavy Marvel has been in the past.
    Also I think chars with good dash speed, buttons, teleports, can put durable hitboxes out, can stick to morrigan and last out AV have a chance.
    (Honestly Dante and Vergil counter her very hard imo)

    2. I believe X/Dorm/X with a point that lets Dorm get started, Hawkeye/Doom/Strider, Dante/beam/vajra, Vergil/X/X, Magneto/missiles(to an extent), Modok/whatever and any optimized Zero team can fight Morri/Doom.
    Joe/Bolts as well.

    3. But basically its Chris G thats winning in my book.
    Its doesn't help that Marvel players are stubborn, just say fuck to changing up strategy. can't stop rushing down and don't want to build optimized teams.

    You can see this stubbornness the most when J rosa plays. Not knocking him as a player, but you can clearly see all his un fly mistakes, mash j. S, and other things and its like whoever he is playing is tripping over their own damn feet because they don't want to wait out AV or run into soul fists or just not block when she is directly above them and get hit by J. S like they can't see it coming.

    Basically it boils down to Chris G leveling up and being hungrier than almost everyone at marvel and its like people no longer want to put in work or try anymore.
    I do believe tat I r teh King.
  • Brewski_420Brewski_420 Jumping S until it works. Joined: Posts: 181
    I play Ghost Rider, Doom, Shuma.... I just keep super jumping while praying to every God possible.
    Yes, I am aware how stupid my name is but I am cursed to this name.
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  • klondikebarklondikebar Joined: Posts: 72
    I only play online (lol). I use Morridoom myself, but I've seen very few of them on XBL. That said, I did get to play Chris G in a couple of ranked matches (assuming NYChrisG is his tag).

    Let's just say that I can totally believe that his skill is the primary factor in making the team so effective. Got obliterated in the first match, second match wasn't a shut-out but still firmly in "bodied" territory.
  • JohnNumbersJohnNumbers Joined: Posts: 53
    Partially speaking, I do believe, like the rest of you, that a lot of Chris G's success comes from his amazing executional abilities and quick thinking. I don't think that anyone can deny that the man knows where to put his hitboxes at exactly the right moments.

    Although, there is something to be said about that team, especially if lesser players are reported to have been seeing success using the team. In this case, if Morrigan gets hit, then the player doing the comboing will obviously be too scared to let her live and set up her Soul Soul Fist obstacle course again. They're more then likely to spend a crapton of meter or even burn Xfactor in order to get her killed, but then this leaves another problem... you just wasted all of your resources and now you're fighting Vergil...

    Also, I mentioned this in another thread but I figure it would be appropriate here. Thoughts?
    How about AmmyDoom with Amaterasu at the front for once for vs. MorriDoom?

    Reflect Hidden Missiles and Soul Fists(it will even reflect the ones coming from behind), call Plasma Beams/Hidden Missiles(or any old beam assist, really) to stuff the opposing Doom, and use the high counter if Morrigan approaches because she can't efficiently use any lows if approaching from mid/fullscreen. I feel like that reflector was made for the sole purpose of beating Morrigan >__>

    /theoryfighter

    Or you can just use DoomAmmy THC to murder everything on the screen at once I guess lmao
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I play Ghost Rider, Doom, Shuma.... I just keep super jumping while praying to every God possible.

    So I guess its settled that if Ghost Rider or Shuma is on your team you probably are fucked.


    Doom without a strong THC is basically fucked too.
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  • Din0Din0 Retired Joined: Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭
    I play Magneto/Morrigan/Doom

    I still get bopped.


    It's Chris G :)
    Magneto/Doom/Dante | Magneto/Doom/Phoenix | Dante/Vergil/Magneto
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  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some people consistently beat chris though like Jwong or champ.Marlin pie can beat him if he freaking puts ammy on point
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ive kinda given up on this game since no team i come up with beats the keep away shit in this game.im even playing rocket raccoon and hes fun and all but he has some serious issues like dmg.health,recovery on moves.
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • CougarCougar Logic, yo. Joined: Posts: 1,528
    I used to play (and still play a lot as an alt) Strange/Haggar/Arthur. Playing against Morridoom was kinda 50/50. I think it's the team and not the player.

    As Strange, I have a lot of tools to get around the zoning part of it, and backed by Haggar assist the rushdown was completely meaningless. I can literally just pop that assist whenever I see Morrigan airdash and I can just kill her outright there. There is no escape once you commit to the airdash. That means that all I have left to deal with is zoning, and Doctor Strange is naturally very good against zoning, with teleports and a hyper designed to counter predicatable zoning.

    Once I lose Haggar, it goes a little more downhill, but air EoA is infinitely useful and can eat so many projectiles while you set up whatever you're going for. I wouldn't count on it though, because the Strange/Haggar shell is pretty much my counter to everything Morridoom can throw at me. It would definitely be a very nice comeback to win against Morridoom without Haggar, because my only other assist is Arthur Dagger Toss and that doesn't really do a whole lot.

    Most of the game I win are literally won with the Strange/Haggar core still alive, because it's so potent with either of the two on point that either it works or it doesn't. That being said, if Strange dies in this matchup... It's all over. Neither Haggar nor Arthur have any chance of breaking through Fly-canceled projectiles flooding from all directions with missiles raining from the sky every few seconds. The only hope I have is superjumping Haggar pipe and hoping for the best, but that rarely works. With Arthur I usually just pop my level 3 when I'm getting zoned, cancel with XF, and hope it caught Morrigan. If it did, I can kill by launching after the level 3 drops her and *maybe* kill another character with XF3 Arthur.

    My main team now is Magneto/Nova/Sentinel, which is less of an endgamey team but it's more solid, has less counters, and is immediately viable without any shifting of the meta, whereas Strange/Haggar core tends to rip apart air assaults and committed attacks (teleport shenanigans, airdash-based offense).

    Since all three characters have some way of negating projectiles and retaliating with assists, as long as two members are alive I can crush Morridoom with this setup. Nova is the diamond in the rough here; I can DHC into his Human Rocket hyper from Magneto and I get basically free damage and I get to disrupt the whole projectile flood. With Nova on point, I can do the same thing without a DHC, or put up my projectile shield if she isn't in Astral Vision and call Sent + :s: + :atk: for a free rushdown opportunity.

    If I'm down to just Sentinel, I'm going to get my butt handed to me by Doom anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

    That being said, just because I don't have problems with MorriDoom doesn't mean it's a bad concept. It means that it's a very solid team with only a few soft counters, and I happen to run those soft counters. Because of the need to attack cause it's Mahvel, we tend to forget that Magneto, Wesker, and Taskmaster have specials that are specifically designed to counter slow-moving projectiles. Once the game ages a couple more years, you'll see those moves actually becoming prominent along with the other versions of the counters. We're just not ready for that yet. MorriDoom will always be strong though, and it is currently, looking forward, the best shell out there. That being said, it will only dominate you if you let it get ahead.

    ChrisG landed himself a good team. I don't think he's a god or anything, just a really good player who found a really solid team. Personally I think that Marlinpie's team, and Viper teams in general, are far more endgamey than MorriDoom, but that's a matter of opinion.
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  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 539 ✭✭
    Some people consistently beat chris though like Jwong or champ.Marlin pie can beat him if he freaking puts ammy on point

    If I'm not mistaken, the last time I remember Justin Wong beating Chris G was at CEO, and F. Champ got him at Evo. Chris G's won his next matches against them (Justin at Evo, Champ as recently as Apex, Seasons Beatings). Even Yipes and Combofiend, they've beaten Chris G only for him to step up and bring it back. He seems to make the necessary adjustments to win again. Before it seemed to go back and forth but I think Chris G's hitting a stride now. I'm looking forward to seeing how the others deal with him at SCR.
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  • Reason4UReason4U Joined: Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭✭
    I think the MorriDoom combo is definitely an end game team but some people love rushdown too much to admit it. I honestly think that combo has room for improvement and can be even more cheap and game controlling if given the chance.

    I recently picked up some new characters to see how that synergize with my Morrigan and Doom and had pretty interesting results with Morri/Modok/Doom, Modok/Morri/Doom, RR/Morri/Doom, Cap/Morri/Doom,and especially dominate with Morri/Doom/Strider.

    I only just picked Modok back up since vanilla and only recently taken RR seriously (I'm only slightly above ass with them) and can a future for this playstyle. Doesn't hurt that Chris G is godlike at FG's either so I say both but MorriDoom isn't going away any time soon imo.
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  • SmokeMaxXSmokeMaxX T.O. of A.R.K. Joined: Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭
    Snipe Doom or RTSD against Morrigan in the beginning. Those are the two main options. Anything else is inconsistent. Kill one and it should be game over since Morrigan sucks by herself unless your team has no air mobility.

    Don't do either one of those and you need to get lucky. Not a lot of teams can handle a Morri-Doom that is in a neutral position. All her stuff is too safe. She throws a fireball on the ground, you try to punish -> cancel into DP hyper. She throws a fireball in the air, you try to punish -> unfly. Scrubbier players who play the team mess up often, giving you hope. I've played a few MorriDooms that I was able to take out pretty easily. When you play the better ones, they don't mess up as often.
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  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    [SIZE=11px]A year ago: "How do we beat Morrigan/Doom?"[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11px]Six months ago: "Dormammu and MODOK counters Morrigan/Doom."[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11px]Today: "How do we beat Morrigan/Doom?"[/SIZE]
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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    Ae2012-Yun/Yang/Seth/Ryu/Cody/Dudley
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    [SIZE=11px]A year ago: "How do we beat Morrigan/Doom?"[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11px]Six months ago: "Dormammu and MODOK counters Morrigan/Doom."[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11px]Today: "How do we beat Morrigan/Doom?"[/SIZE]

    Thor and/or Strange.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    [SIZE=11px]Cable stayed pretty relevant in mvc2 till people stepped their magneto up. He moved too fast for people to defend against, and the fear of the double snap back was really high. Zoning in marvel 2 compared to marvel 3 is not even remotely close to being the same. Chip damage in mvc3 is way too much, and really viable because they nerfed airdashing/airblocking. Also, no more running away and building meter with whiffed normals.but since we MIGHT get an update expect to see morrigan and doom nerfed along with vergil,zero[/SIZE]
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • D4GamersD4Gamers Just Like Cap! Joined: Posts: 268
    So after watching Apex 2013, I can honestly say that Morrigan/Doom is the strongest team right now, Morrigan/strider following close behind it.

    We can cross off Dormammu and Magneto off of our list of counterpicks because from what I saw Champ didn't even get to play either of them while Chris G was chipping him away.

    Also I've gotta get this off my chest, this talk of "The team isn't broken, The players need to step it up!!" is really getting old and quite ignorant. It's really easy to say that when you yourself have never played Chris G or entered a tournament time and time again only to lose to the same thing you lost to last week. Do you really think these guys haven't tried finding counters, this is a career for most of these guys and going home without any money is something they don't take lightly. FGTV Crew, Yipes, Fanatiq, Combofiend and many others have said they play this game a good 6+ hours everyday.

    It's been almost a year now since Chris G has been doing this shit, saying "it's the players not stepping it up" is practically an insult. I've personally tried to find counters to this team since a Morrigan player lives in my area and we have frequent sets so I can test out my new ideas. I can't use every Character on the roster so I'm limited as to what I can find or test, the point Im making with this is, Not everybody can play every single character on a competitive level in order to find new counters, which is exactly what I hear some of you suggesting.
    -Vanilla MvC3: Main:Zero/ Viper/ Taskmaster I Alt: Skrull/ Wesker/ Sentinel
    -Ultimate MvC3:Main: Spencer/ Hulk/ Doom I Alt: Doom/ Akuma/ Strider
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So after watching Apex 2013, I can honestly say that Morrigan/Doom is the strongest team right now, Morrigan/strider following close behind it.

    We can cross off Dormammu and Magneto off of our list of counterpicks because from what I saw Champ didn't even get to play either of them while Chris G was chipping him away.

    Also I've gotta get this off my chest, this talk of "The team isn't broken, The players need to step it up!!" is really getting old and quite ignorant. It's really easy to say that when you yourself have never played Chris G or entered a tournament time and time again only to lose to the same thing you lost to last week. Do you really think these guys haven't tried finding counters, this is a career for most of these guys and going home without any money is something they don't take lightly. FGTV Crew, Yipes, Fanatiq, Combofiend and many others have said they play this game a good 6+ hours everyday.

    It's been almost a year now since Chris G has been doing this shit, saying "it's the players not stepping it up" is practically an insult. I've personally tried to find counters to this team since a Morrigan player lives in my area and we have frequent sets so I can test out my new ideas. I can't use every Character on the roster so I'm limited as to what I can find or test, the point Im making with this is, Not everybody can play every single character on a competitive level in order to find new counters, which is exactly what I hear some of you suggesting.


    That's the point. The guy who understands Marvel better than ANYONE in the world is saying the team has cracks. Therefore we need to crack out to beat it. Obviously you know the strength of your own team and Chris G has been through team after team trying to find something consistent. He just found something really consistent for him and it happens to be a team that people finally can't just press random buttons at and kill off really fast (which is usually how a lot of other teams that other top players use work).


    The game is way too sandbox to jump to huge conclusions after some play in a tournament. There's 50 fucking characters that were balanced around each other a lot better than MVC2...something is gonna work.

    Especially since there's only 2 famed people running Morrigan and one of them still gets bopped all the time (even lost to 2 of the top people at my local venue). We gotta work to bop it.







    This is just not the type of game where 1 year is enough. Not even 4 years will be enough. One of the top 3rd Strike players just released new tech in a Chun Li mirror match that he had hidden for 7 fucking years. It's just ever since 2009 everyone knows they can wait for challenges to be nerfed. This is probably the last fighting game where people will have to fight really good shit and put together shit to beat other shit. Let's figure it out before or incase a patch never comes.
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  • yah yaahh b*tch!yah yaahh b*tch! thats my b*tch Joined: Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭✭
    Viper, Dante, Zero, Doom, Vergil, Dormammu (with meter), Strider (with meter) all catch doom and or rip morrigan out the air.

    If you're talking gimmicks you need a THC that can bust through and make doom assist BLEED if not kill. Something with invincibility or instant startup like Jill, Hawkeye or Spencer/BEAM HYPER/BEAM HYPER or BEAM HYPER/INVINCIBILITY + STARTUP combo.


    Its all about putting a hurt on doom BEFORE Morrigan get more than 1-2 bars for astral vision.


    People need to study more videos of Morridoom getting blown up. Joker, Mihe, FChamp and Yipes have all demonstrated that excellent movement and early assist kills are what blows it up.
  • D4GamersD4Gamers Just Like Cap! Joined: Posts: 268
    That's the point. The guy who understands Marvel better than ANYONE in the world is saying the team has cracks. Therefore we need to crack out to beat it. Obviously you know the strength of your own team and Chris G has been through team after team trying to find something consistent. He just found something really consistent for him and it happens to be a team that people finally can't just press random buttons at and kill off really fast (which is usually how a lot of other teams that other top players use work).

    I agree, I don't believe this team will ever be figured out by a single player alone. I support this thread because the more of us they are, the more info and ideas we can exchange in order to crack the answer, all of us play different characters and team combinations which gives us a lot higher chance of solving the riddle since we have a bigger spectrum of the cast to work with as compared to the 1 guy who's in the lab 6 hours every day with his team but still loses to Chris G every week and is told he's "Not stepping it up".....
    -Vanilla MvC3: Main:Zero/ Viper/ Taskmaster I Alt: Skrull/ Wesker/ Sentinel
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  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 3,676 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Seriously though, how many people have actually whipped out MODOK to fight MORRI/DOOM that actually play MODOK recently? It seems once someone finds something that kind of works they switch to some ish that doesn't work as well. It's like a villain in a tv show that has this great plan. It foils, due to some small issue, then never tries the plan again.

    Not that I think MODOK is a permanent solution. MORRIGAN can give MODOK hell if she rushes. That stray blaster insta kill tech though....sexy.
  • D4GamersD4Gamers Just Like Cap! Joined: Posts: 268
    The game is way too sandbox to jump to huge conclusions after some play in a tournament. There's 50 fucking characters that were balanced around each other a lot better than MVC2...something is gonna work.

    Especially since there's only 2 famed people running Morrigan and one of them still gets bopped all the time (even lost to 2 of the top people at my local venue). We gotta work to bop it.

    This is just not the type of game where 1 year is enough. Not even 4 years will be enough. One of the top 3rd Strike players just released new tech in a Chun Li mirror match that he had hidden for 7 fucking years. It's just ever since 2009 everyone knows they can wait for challenges to be nerfed. This is probably the last fighting game where people will have to fight really good shit and put together shit to beat other shit. Let's figure it out before or incase a patch never comes.

    You edited your post like 3 times during my reply lol.

    I get what you're saying, you're definitely right. It was premature of me to say that Magneto and Dormammu were obsolete against Morrigan, I'm also forgetting how long these games can really last since a new one is always in the works after a few short years(Not complaining about it though). I was just really hoping Champ would show us something against Chris' team. In fact, I'm in the middle of learning Magneto and Dormammu right now for the sole purpose of finding new shit. Learning Mags though is like trying to climb the Tower of Babel with a broken leg.
    -Vanilla MvC3: Main:Zero/ Viper/ Taskmaster I Alt: Skrull/ Wesker/ Sentinel
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  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good. I think Nova can handle Morrigan pretty well in neutral, but once she's got her BS going it's hard to really do any damage. Plasma Beam also counters Missiles to some degree. I've played Rattana's Mags/Morr/Doom team and I tend to do okay against him, but I have no experience against Chris G, so I can't really say for certain.
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  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some of the tournament players have gived up trying to figure out how to beat chris and have now switched to morridoom too....
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • yah yaahh b*tch!yah yaahh b*tch! thats my b*tch Joined: Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭✭
    It's funny how things have went unsaid about ChrisG G not having nearly as much luck in other games. Morridoom is just plain good, it was only a matter of time before Morrigan was unlocked. She's been secret top tier since vanilla.


    So has Trish. . .
  • Cee DizzyCee Dizzy The shit I don't like Joined: Posts: 3,406 ✭✭✭
    1. List your current main team and how you think it deals with Morrigan/Doom between the point/second and anchor. Do all 3 characters with or without assist have a fighting shot or are you up the creek if left with a certain one? Does your team have a shot whether Morri is on point or in the second spot?

    Main team is Wesker/Doom/Strider. Wesker with both assists do well against Morrigan. She can't really get her bullet hell started because of beam assist and she can't run long because of Strider. If she does get it started, then I can attempt to super jump out of it and teleport until I can't no more. I might take chip from the missiles, but at least Im not taking chip from that bullet hell.

    Doom does meh. Wesker doesn't give him shit. Strider makes chasing Morrigan a little easy. I can stay in the air. Might have to eat some missiles but I think Doom can stay in the air from that shit. Doom needs a partner.

    Strider does good against her. With beam assist, its easier but he doesn't really need it. He can just manuver through the air. Orbs can keep her pinned. Mix ups are really good against her

    My team versus a Morrigan/Doom team is more of a momentum match, and I can escape that shit if there is even a small hole in the bullet hell. Its easier for her to come in and take the mixup, but my team can fight her if she is on point.

    2. What team(s) do you think would do well or possibly eventually counter MorriDoom?

    Vergil/Doom/Whatever might destroy Morrigan/Doom because of roundtrip glitch + missiles. She really can't move. Vergil/Strider bodies her. I also think that Storm/Doom or Storm/Sentinel would be an excellent counter pick for Morrigan, because it punishes bad assist calls with hail storm. I can see Strange with missiles or vajra going the fuck in on it. She can't breathe because of projectiles on her ass and the eye of aggomato. My team does really well. Dormammu/Doom does really good. I can't really tell.

    3. Do you believe the team is truly that unbeatable or do you believe its more Chris G?

    I think between these 2, its Chris G. Chris G is the only Morrigan/Doom that won a tournament. There are plenty of Morrigan/Doom's but they aren't very consistent, let alone good. J Rosa does good one weekend and then gets bopped the next. I wish he were more consistent. Chris G is the only one people should be truly scared of.

    Also, I think people need to play smarter. Why are niggas pressing buttons during bullet hell? Why aren't yall in the air? Just run. You gonna get chipped by missiles, but its better than getting fisted.
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  • DensuoDensuo Winning by Timeout (⌐■_■) Joined: Posts: 6,759
    The problem with people and Morridoom is that they quite frankly panic. and they recklessly raw tag.

    EDIT: I think characters like Rocket Raccoon can stop her. Risking an assist to take the back hit for you is a possible idea as well.

    I think possible stoppers are

    Chris in general I think can really put a stop to her.
    Bolts of Ballsack assist with point taking the back shot.
    Gold Pendulum.
    Won El Fuerte's first and only Major, at Winter Brawl 7
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  • D4GamersD4Gamers Just Like Cap! Joined: Posts: 268
    The problem with people and Morridoom is that they quite frankly panic. and they recklessly raw tag.

    EDIT: I think characters like Rocket Raccoon can stop her. Risking an assist to take the back hit for you is a possible idea as well.

    I think possible stoppers are

    Chris in general I think can really put a stop to her.
    Bolts of Ballsack assist with point taking the back shot.
    Gold Pendulum.

    One of the possible ideas I had was to have Hsien-ko on point and immediately turn her gold and tag into Dormammu on Second and have Strider/Doom(Missiles) on anchor.

    Pros:
    - Hsien-ko punishes doom assist calls guaranteed, it'll take a while to kill him but this is mainly just to stop morrigan from spamming missiles.
    - Vaijra assist keeps Morrigan honest in the sky OR Doom locks down morrigan
    - Dormammu can setup spells and has enough time to Chaotic flame on reaction to Hsien-ko pendulum happy birthdays, Xfactor is a guaranteed assist kill.

    Cons:
    - You have to play Hsien-ko
    - Mediocre DHC synergy
    - Have to be cautious of Hsien-ko's health
    - Minimal meter build
    -Vanilla MvC3: Main:Zero/ Viper/ Taskmaster I Alt: Skrull/ Wesker/ Sentinel
    -Ultimate MvC3:Main: Spencer/ Hulk/ Doom I Alt: Doom/ Akuma/ Strider
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  • DensuoDensuo Winning by Timeout (⌐■_■) Joined: Posts: 6,759
    I was looking over some stuff.

    Characters:
    Arthur - his Axe in armor coupled with assists to force her to play his game. Gold Lances. stand M is autoguard on mid and high attacks while active. shield special nulls projectiles.
    Hawkeye with Spritzer (piercing bolt) beats all low priority attacks automatically
    Chris - magnum threat. Grenade launcher to hit doom.
    Dante - Thunderbolt
    Dorm - when he's in control.

    Useful assists:
    Bolts of Ballsack
    Gold Pendulum (obvious)
    Gold Daggers (3 x 5 low durability)
    Log Trap (10 low)
    Lariat - just so he can take a hit for you. He has the life to be able to take one of two from the back so you can do something.
    Won El Fuerte's first and only Major, at Winter Brawl 7
    " -______- I still think Densuo is best Fuerte in America" - x MannyFuerte x 三( ° Д°)-@ Charging star!!
    "You're right mang, Ken players need to start doing more 360 grabs." Shinroken
    "Sometimes I get random demon flips and Air Hados because I'm tatsu-ing so hard!" GomuGomu
  • maziodynemaziodyne I'll crush you in one strike! Joined: Posts: 7,564
    Hsien-Ko/Strange can actually do the DHC Glitch setup with combos ending in Tenrai-Ha, so that's... actually not an entirely bad idea lol.
    Retired Mahvel scrub.
  • DensuoDensuo Winning by Timeout (⌐■_■) Joined: Posts: 6,759
    Hsien-Ko/Strange can actually do the DHC Glitch setup with combos ending in Tenrai-Ha, so that's... actually not an entirely bad idea lol.

    yeah. it is
    Won El Fuerte's first and only Major, at Winter Brawl 7
    " -______- I still think Densuo is best Fuerte in America" - x MannyFuerte x 三( ° Д°)-@ Charging star!!
    "You're right mang, Ken players need to start doing more 360 grabs." Shinroken
    "Sometimes I get random demon flips and Air Hados because I'm tatsu-ing so hard!" GomuGomu
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