How is your team vs. Morridoom? Is it the team or Chris G?

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  • AirtolaAirtola Seas: Protected Joined: Posts: 67
    Am I allowed to say fuck MorriDoom?
    @Airtola
    Team: Hulk/Nemesis T-Type/Taskmaster
    PSN: Airtola
    "Don't get hit. That's right. Don't get hit. If you've got 1.2m health, don't get hit. If you've got 650k health, don't get hit. If you get hit, don't get hit. Just don't get hit. If you get hit in Marvel, die quickly. That's right. You're going to die quickly if you get hit." - DefaultCamera
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Am I allowed to say fuck MorriDoom?

    As a big body player, you have all rights.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • Natural MysticNatural Mystic Strategist, Theorist, Loyal to the Game Joined: Posts: 106
    Why aren't we talking about spiderman? Doesn't he have 3 things he can do in the air that would avoid all missles and soul fists? super jump, air dash, web zip, web swing close to her, when you see her activate flight ultimate web? Seems like the best choice of action right now. Nobody has mobility like spidey does and when he touches you, you're dead. Make your team Spiderman/Dante/Dr. Doom and I think you have a real match. Spiderman can get in at the very beginning of the match, jump web zip/ jump h/ OS air grab with dante jam session for backup. If the bullet hell gets started with doom missiles super jump and Spidey can (in sequence) throw a web ball (if at full screen will hit morrigan/force her to block), web swing and then air dash to dodge all the missiles, soul fists and waste time while still having a web zip to waste more time or get closer to morrigan.
    Umvc3: Nova/Dr Doom/Strider
    SSFIVAE2012: Fei Long
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2013

    Why aren't we talking about spiderman? Doesn't he have 3 things he can do in the air that would avoid all missles and soul fists? super jump, air dash, web zip, web swing close to her, when you see her activate flight ultimate web? Seems like the best choice of action right now. Nobody has mobility like spidey does and when he touches you, you're dead. Make your team Spiderman/Dante/Dr. Doom and I think you have a real match. Spiderman can get in at the very beginning of the match, jump web zip/ jump h/ OS air grab with dante jam session for backup. If the bullet hell gets started with doom missiles super jump and Spidey can (in sequence) throw a web ball (if at full screen will hit morrigan/force her to block), web swing and then air dash to dodge all the missiles, soul fists and waste time while still having a web zip to waste more time or get closer to morrigan.



    Yeah it might not be bad at all. Especially since his projectiles put her in capture states. If he's on the ground one good web throw could pretty much end Morri. It's just Spider Man has a bit too much of a learning curve and is a bit too quirky for the average player. He's definitely an option IMO though.
    Post edited by DevilJin 01 on
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • Natural MysticNatural Mystic Strategist, Theorist, Loyal to the Game Joined: Posts: 106
    edited February 2013
    I tested my sequence, it burns half of AV, forces her to block for a web ball, dodges all missiles, soulfists and puts you right in her face or the complete other side of the screen where you can just repeat the process, AV will be done and you can be right in her face with a jam session backing you up. Spiderman... I called it 1st. Also Ultimate web into devil trigger is the thing dreams are made of; 300k into a free combo? Yes please. Crawler assault also dodges missiles, free. /thread
    Post edited by Natural Mystic on
    Umvc3: Nova/Dr Doom/Strider
    SSFIVAE2012: Fei Long
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 952 ✭✭✭
    I tested my sequence, it burns half of AV, forces her to block for a web ball, dodges all missiles, soulfists and puts you right in her face or the complete other side of the screen where you can just repeat the process, AV will be done and you can be right in her face with a jam session backing you up. Spiderman... I called it 1st. Also Ultimate web into devil trigger is the thing dreams are made of; 300k into a free combo? Yes please. Crawler assault also dodges missiles, free. /thread
    No.

    Patterns and sequences never work in a real match as your opponent should always adjust to your gameplay. Also, UWT DHCed into DT is actually really stupid and a bad waste of meter since Spidey can self combo off UWT, use whatever assists he has to extend that combo and build enough meter to do a DHC if he had 2 meters initially. Spidey's CA does not dodge missiles; like MS it only has invincibility during the pre-flash/wall cling frames and you are to ideally use it at close to point-blank range.

    If anything, Spidey is good at running out Astral's time. If you save his air zip and block/get hit by missiles at sj height, you can time a 'blind' assist call which can open stuff up for you. Other than that, it isn't easy to get in against Morrigan. Without Astral on, I think Spidey with a strong neutral assist (plasma, bolts, unibeam, arrows) can get in on Morrigan through establishing a strong ground game. That doesn't stop her from just running away and spacing until she can get her soul fists out again though. Also, if you do it right, Morri is free to UWT resets so downing her isn't hard as getting your first confirmable hit.

    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • yoh001yoh001 Joined: Posts: 147 ✭✭
    My Team.

    Deadpool (Katanarama)
    C.'Murica (C.Star)
    Dorm (Purification)
    FC: 4811 - 7485 - 8425

    Pokemon X
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 6,957 ✭✭✭✭
    lets not forget that chris g was winning tournaments with ryu before he switched to morrigan/doom. i say its a combination of both. this is what happens when a top player uses a top duo, something we havent seen with zero yet (there are no top zero players).

    i havent tried fighting a morrigan/doom yet with my current team (dorm/wesker/strider), but my old team loses to morrigan/doom pretty free (trish/sentinel/wesker).

    i think my current team will do okay. dorm is inherently good vs morrigan until he gets rushed down. he is more likely to get rushed down than being lamed out by astral vision fistings. vajra helps wesker get into morrigans air space and anchor strider is well.....anchor strider. morrigan/doom can probably stall out his x-factor time a lot better than most characters though.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 543 ✭✭
    edited February 2013
    Ouroborus wrote: »
    lets not forget that chris g was winning tournaments with ryu before he switched to morrigan/doom. i say its a combination of both. this is what happens when a top player uses a top duo, something we havent seen with zero yet (there are no top zero players).

    Though a slight digression from the topic, I'd argue Flocker was a top Zero player. The only people who've beaten him have been Kusoru, Infrit (both once) and Chris G. Flocker was at SCR 2011 but didn't appear in the top 16, he could have been eliminated early by someone but I don't know. If he entered more tournaments he'd be more prominent in the scene.

    Though I'm not sure if a Zero team can beat Chris G's MorriDoom now.
    Post edited by YawDan on
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • eivellordsm2eivellordsm2 Macho Barbarian dongzilla Joined: Posts: 1,334
    YawDan said:
    Ouroborus wrote: »
    lets not forget that chris g was winning tournaments with ryu before he switched to morrigan/doom. i say its a combination of both. this is what happens when a top player uses a top duo, something we havent seen with zero yet (there are no top zero players).

    Though a slight digression from the topic, I'd argue Flocker was a top Zero player. The only people who've beaten him have been Kusoru, Infrit (both once) and Chris G. Flocker was at SCR 2011 but didn't appear in the top 16, he could have been eliminated early by someone but I don't know. If he entered more tournaments he'd be more prominent in the scene.

    Though I'm not sure if a Zero team can beat Chris G's MorriDoom now.
    this I agree/disagree because he's good I think he can beat Chris G with practice but  If he entered more tournaments he'd be more prominent in the scene. part I disagree I think its like the whole BUM is amazing argument...  
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 543 ✭✭
    edited February 2013
    YawDan said:
    Ouroborus wrote: »
    lets not forget that chris g was winning tournaments with ryu before he switched to morrigan/doom. i say its a combination of both. this is what happens when a top player uses a top duo, something we havent seen with zero yet (there are no top zero players).

    Though a slight digression from the topic, I'd argue Flocker was a top Zero player. The only people who've beaten him have been Kusoru, Infrit (both once) and Chris G. Flocker was at SCR 2011 but didn't appear in the top 16, he could have been eliminated early by someone but I don't know. If he entered more tournaments he'd be more prominent in the scene.

    Though I'm not sure if a Zero team can beat Chris G's MorriDoom now.
    this I agree/disagree because he's good I think he can beat Chris G with practice but  If he entered more tournaments he'd be more prominent in the scene. part I disagree I think its like the whole BUM is amazing argument...  

    I didn't elaborate too much in  that post as it went off topic-

    When I said Flocker would be prominent, I meant to say he'd have a higher 'profile' in the scene. 

    Of the majors that have occurred since Ultimate, NEC XII, NEC XIII, SCR 2011, SCR 2013, CEO, Winterbrawl, Winterfest, Curleh Mustache 2, Curleh Mustache 3, Curleh Mustache 4, UFGT8, Final Round XV, Evo 2012, NCR, Shadoloo Showdown, Canada Cup, TXIII, Summer Jam 6, East Coast Throwdown 4, Toryuken 2012 AND MORE (just to give an idea of HOW MANY there have been), Flocker's only entered four tournaments; Seasons Beatings Ascension in which he placed 2nd, CEO in which he came third, Evo in which he made top 8, and Final Round XV where he placed Top 8. Of those, his loses have been to-
    Chris G- once in FR, once in Evo, twice (winners bracket and then eliminated) in CEO, and in the winners final and Grand Finals of SBA. Infrit and Kusuro each gave him a loss that led to his elimination in FR and EVO.

    The fact that Chris G has been the main person out of the players who could eliminate him from tournaments shows how good he is.

    Still, the only player that I would say beats Chris G's MorriDoom is PR Rog, and by extension his team, as he's the only player who has done overall in a tournament since Evo (not to ignore Joker at Canada Cup). I feel like everyone else will need to improve their teams to have a chance against him.
    Post edited by YawDan on
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 543 ✭✭
    edited February 2013
    (sorry, this was a duplicate of my original comment. If I knew how to use this sites new design and fully delete this post, I would/will.
    Post edited by YawDan on
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • DrWsGreatestDrWsGreatest Joined: Posts: 138
    [quote=" snip
    (Part Two on the way)[/quote]


    Ok we get it, uv read and mastered Sirlins book "playing to win". Probably could've just linked to sirlin.net and said this is what it takes to be the best. Not that I disagree with u tho, is just an awful long post to make a pretty simple point. That playin to win revolves around doing anything and everything necessary even if it cuts again ur own personal grain or isn't necessarily what u consider "fun", since in the long run the most fun is usually had by the winner when they're counting the award money!
  • CybitCybit Dictator for Life on the Isle of Noobism Joined: Posts: 37

    After watching Winter Brawl; I think ChrisG figured out how to handle rushdown (going through both JWong and PR Rog); so, wow.  The ability for Doom to kill any character he hits once with the infinite adds a terrifying capability. 

     

    I'm not sure how anyone is going to beat ChrisG at Evo this year. 

  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cybit wrote: »
    After watching Winter Brawl; I think ChrisG figured out how to handle rushdown (going through both JWong and PR Rog); so, wow.  The ability for Doom to kill any character he hits once with the infinite adds a terrifying capability.  <br />
     <br />
    I'm not sure how anyone is going to beat ChrisG at Evo this year. 


    Yeah i told people Chris G downloads too fast to let some obvious "rush until it works" strat beat him at a major for more than one go. Especially since at SCR, Chris was already in losers so he didnt have another chance to turn things around like he usually gets.

    Rushdown works because its quick and dirty but if all your point character has is the rush...that means theyre forced to do the temple run. As far as long term strategy thats not going to work. You need a point that has strong, durable projectile options and possibly invicible or projectile invincible options if things get really bad. Wolverine pretty much has no invincible nothing or any projectiles so once he gets pushed out he takes stray hits and chip until he dhcs or dies. Doesnt help that his super jump height movement options are lackluster to help stay in the clearer spot of the flood.


    Joker seemed to do pretty well with characters that can rush, but still have durable projectile options and strong air options like Magneto and Iron Man. Id like to see more of that clash and with other top players of such characters in the future.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 543 ✭✭
    I was hoping PR Rog was onto something! Not that I want(ed) Chris G to lose, but I just don't want anything to be endgame. Heck I use Captain america I wanna at least have a fighting chance lol.

    But yeah, it seemed all Chris G had to do was survive the beginning of the round to beat PR Rog/Wolverine, and the few Doom comebacks he made didn't hurt neither. Maybe if PR Rog adapts to Chris G's adaptation he could win again... Chris G even dropped Vergil for Firebrand and won. I'd also like to see Joker play Chris G again, and perhaps Nemo too, because you guys will probably right and Chris G will run away with Evo unless someone comes up with something viable- and Chris G doesn't get the chance to adapt to it.
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cap can actually fight Morrigan better than most characters thanks to Charging Star. Shit goes through projectiles like crazy. It's definitely not in his favor but he does have options.

    I think Chris will run away with EVO unless people stop sucking with Dante. A point Dante team with a good horizontal assist I think is the best counter to Morrigan, because he has great options to destroy Soul Fist with Tempest and Jam Session. Something like Dante/Dorm/Doom beam. I dunno.
    Ota City's Finest!
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    UMvC3:
    Main Squads - Nova β Doom α Ammy β
    Side Projects - Magneto/Strange/Ammy, Nova/Vergil/Strange, Ammy/Strange/Vergil, others
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  • Thunderfang747Thunderfang747 Joined: Posts: 63
    edited February 2013
    Has anyone bothered to give Tron Bonne a chance?  I realize at first this sounds like a terrible idea but consider her standing H for a minute, it nullifies projectiles, it hits both sides, it is whiff cancellable into beacon bomb (the move where the servbots grab you and make you stuck allowing Tron to do whatever she wants) and any hit Tron gets coverts into a million damage with the correct team setups so Morrigan with her 950k would be dead off a single touch.  I don't know how viable the strategy would be, but to my knowledge her standing and jumping Hs are the only moves in the game that nullify projectiles from either side and it is proportional so if Morrigan is in astral vision and you see a fireball coming towards you Tron should be able to standing or jumping H and the one coming from behind will be gone as well.   Obviously Hidden Missiles are a problem but if you have an assist that deals with them like Shuma mystic ray or Dante Jam Session then you can elminiate them as well.  Eventually Morrigan will have to rush down and H Beacon bomb beats airdashing free because it is in such a good anti-air angle.  Even if Tron screws up her rhythm once or twice she has 1.2 million health she can take a couple fireballs.  This is all theory, but what do you guys think?  I think it is at least worth a test.
    Post edited by Thunderfang747 on
  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    Has anyone bothered to give Tron Bonne a chance?  I realize at first this sounds like a terrible idea but consider her standing H for a minute, it nullifies projectiles, it hits both sides, it is whiff cancellable into beacon bomb (the move where the servbots grab you and make you stuck allowing Tron to do whatever she wants) and any hit Tron gets coverts into a million damage with the correct team setups so Morrigan with her 950k would be dead off a single touch.  I don't know how viable the strategy would be, but to my knowledge her standing and jumping Hs are the only moves in the game that nullify projectiles from either side and it is proportional so if Morrigan is in astral vision and you see a fireball coming towards you Tron should be able to standing or jumping H and the one coming from behind will be gone as well.   Obviously Hidden Missiles are a problem but if you have an assist that deals with them like Shuma mystic ray or Dante Jam Session then you can elminiate them as well.  Eventually Morrigan will have to rush down and Beacon bomb beats airdashing free.  Even if Tron screws up her rhythm once or twice she has 1.2 million health she can take a couple fireballs.  This is all theory, but what do you guys think?  I think it is at least worth a test.
    Honestly, that's not a bad idea. I feel like Morrigan could eventually find a way to rush Tron down if she has a good horizontal assist, but Chris G's team doesn't really have that. But Jam Session would really help Tron out... too bad we didn't get to see Rikir and Chris play! I don't think Abegen's had a real shot against Morridoom either.

    I think the one thing we should consider though is that Morridoom and Chris G definitely are two different considerations. My team can fight Morridoom fine, I honestly don't have a problem against most I've encountered. But I know Chris G would body me free. So what in theory is a good matchup against the characters might not fly versus the only Morridoom player anyone's scared of.
    Post edited by discovigilante on
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    Main Squads - Nova β Doom α Ammy β
    Side Projects - Magneto/Strange/Ammy, Nova/Vergil/Strange, Ammy/Strange/Vergil, others
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  • CybitCybit Dictator for Life on the Isle of Noobism Joined: Posts: 37
    The more I watch that fight, the more I think Doom is the bigger issue.  One of the top 5 assists in the game, absolutely perfect for zoning (notice how many times folks get in but have to back off because of incoming missiles) and as time goes on, literally turns into a "he hits you once, you are dead" character as folks learn the infinite.  Add in his health being not the glass cannon level of other characters that have one hit = dead combos (Zero, Strider, Nova, etc)...I have a bad feeling MorriDoom turns into the end game. 

    (that or they should just bloody fix the infinite, since I don't believe any character should be able to do an infinite w/o X-Factor)
  • Thunderfang747Thunderfang747 Joined: Posts: 63
    Has anyone bothered to give Tron Bonne a chance?  I realize at first this sounds like a terrible idea but consider her standing H for a minute, it nullifies projectiles, it hits both sides, it is whiff cancellable into beacon bomb (the move where the servbots grab you and make you stuck allowing Tron to do whatever she wants) and any hit Tron gets coverts into a million damage with the correct team setups so Morrigan with her 950k would be dead off a single touch.  I don't know how viable the strategy would be, but to my knowledge her standing and jumping Hs are the only moves in the game that nullify projectiles from either side and it is proportional so if Morrigan is in astral vision and you see a fireball coming towards you Tron should be able to standing or jumping H and the one coming from behind will be gone as well.   Obviously Hidden Missiles are a problem but if you have an assist that deals with them like Shuma mystic ray or Dante Jam Session then you can elminiate them as well.  Eventually Morrigan will have to rush down and Beacon bomb beats airdashing free.  Even if Tron screws up her rhythm once or twice she has 1.2 million health she can take a couple fireballs.  This is all theory, but what do you guys think?  I think it is at least worth a test.
    Honestly, that's not a bad idea. I feel like Morrigan could eventually find a way to rush Tron down if she has a good horizontal assist, but Chris G's team doesn't really have that. But Jam Session would really help Tron out... too bad we didn't get to see Rikir and Chris play! I don't think Abegen's had a real shot against Morridoom either.

    I think the one thing we should consider though is that Morridoom and Chris G definitely are two different considerations. My team can fight Morridoom fine, I honestly don't have a problem against most I've encountered. But I know Chris G would body me free. So what in theory is a good matchup against the characters might not fly versus the only Morridoom player anyone's scared of.
    I understand what you are saying, what if Tron had a horizontal assist of her own to counter-act a Morridoom team that had one?  What about Tron / Dante (Jam Session) / Doom (Plasma Beam)?  Of course you're right about Chris G himself being such a good player that it would never be easy no matter which character you pick but in terms of countering his team specifically I think I might be on to something here.  Again I would need to test, I play Tron and Doom but don't play Dante and have no Morridoom's to fight so it is all theory.
  • Negative-Zer0Negative-Zer0 Joined: Posts: 6,197 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Chris G is just godlike tho. Not on my east coast emil thing now this is real talk.
    He is unflying shit and blocking things we all know that we would get hit by. His fundamentals are in place. Everyone else has to get on his level of fundamentals if they want to beat him. His morrigan was too clean. 


    Chris G is just better than everyone else. 
    If everyone else could move upwards socially, so can blacks. They are just dumb.
    "This comparison ignores the unique history of discrimination against Black people in America. Over the past four centuries, Black history has included nearly 250 years of slavery, 100 years of legalized discrimination, and only 50 years of anything else. Jews and Asians, on the other hand, are populations that immigrated to North America and included doctors, lawyers, professors, and entrepreneurs among their ranks. Moreover, European Jews are able to function as part of the White majority. To expect Blacks to show the same upward mobility as Jews and Asians is to deny the historical and social reality that Black people face."
  • p0wer1337p0wer1337 Joined: Posts: 115
    I play chris (gun fire) zero (ryujein) and dante (jam)
    I feel like chris can be an answer to some of the morridoom stuff, considering chris's prone dodges 75% of the soul fists, and when doom is called out you can pop him into the knees. The magnum is a good answer because it kills assists and it beats soulfists, and punishes. Dante, has the most tools to fight a majority of the bs that morrigan bs. Zero well, he really can't do much other that lightning buster and get lucky.
    umvc3: Chris/Zero/Dante, Zero/Vergil/Dante, Chris/Vergil/Dante
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    YawDan said:
    I was hoping PR Rog was onto something! Not that I want(ed) Chris G to lose, but I just don't want anything to be endgame. Heck I use Captain america I wanna at least have a fighting chance lol.

    But yeah, it seemed all Chris G had to do was survive the beginning of the round to beat PR Rog/Wolverine, and the few Doom comebacks he made didn't hurt neither. Maybe if PR Rog adapts to Chris G's adaptation he could win again... Chris G even dropped Vergil for Firebrand and won. I'd also like to see Joker play Chris G again, and perhaps Nemo too, because you guys will probably right and Chris G will run away with Evo unless someone comes up with something viable- and Chris G doesn't get the chance to adapt to it.

    I mean there's nothing to be afraid of as far as end game.  There has to be an end game...just like there will eventually be a judgment day supposedly.  It's just luckily the game has so many powerful characters that there will likely be more end game teams than there were in MVC2.  Which is good.  Which even the teams that aren't end game should still be able to fight those end game teams more effectively due to just how highly damaging everything is and the amount of tools given to each character.

    Let's face it...Chris G never really had a Vergil any ways so the effect Vergil had on the team never really became that great.  Chris G pretty much showed that while Vergil has the potential to do good stuff even if you aren't that great with him...you can't make him truly scary unless you actually kill regularly on your touches, or optimize your trap situations with him.  He pretty much didn't learn sword loop for shit and still wouldn't kill people during XF2 combos.  He tried getting down some of the round trip charge trap stuff...but never really optimized that either.  

    It remains to be seen if Chris G threw in Firebrand just out of confidence sake or actually made a legit strategic decision.  Realistically its obvious that building meter for Vergil is scarier than building meter for Firebrand or Doom unless you account for him somehow possibly coming up with consistent guard break setups which I don't really see Chris G optimizing (especially since the team probably isn't even capable of it).  Regardless I liked it though since it seems he at least likes Firebrand as a character more than Vergil.  It doesn't really feel like he puts his heart into Vergil and just plays him out of his supposed strength rather than getting the most juice out of him.  The lack of optimizing Vergil to even a decent degree seems to be hurting him more than its helping him.  At least with Firebrand he has an extra point character that is rarely used that he seems to put more emphasis in which is great for giving people something else to think about.
    Post edited by DevilJin 01 on
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I mean there's nothing to be afraid of as far as end game.  There has to be an end game...just like there will eventually be a judgment day supposedly.  
    I think this thread just got too real for me...
    Ota City's Finest!
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    UMvC3:
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    Flux said:
    If you actually look at how Chris played at the end of SCR against both Marlin and Rog, you can see a visible difference in his fireball patterns, his movement, and his approaches compared to this weekend. Pretty simply, at SCR he wasn't playing much like himself, so alot of his adapting wasn't doing him a lot of good, since he was making serious mistakes in his normal game.

    Right now, when he's playing comfortably and loose, not even necessarily optimal, but making good decisions, reacting well, and adapting well, there isn't a Marvel player in the world that is fucking with him playing Morrigan/Vergil/Doom in tournament. He is clearly better than the rest of the top 5 right now. It was confirmed for me when he played Justin, and Justin looked helpless. You can say that it was because of Justin's team, but Justin gets in on anything and anyone. His Vergil isn't even a strong character yet, and he's demolishing other top players with that team, both EC and WC. You have ~4-5 seconds at the start of the match to get a hit in on Morrigan, without getting clipped by her normals, soul fists, or missiles. If she gets away, you better do your best to evade+block, and even then, he's probably not going to give you more chances to hit him.

    The fact that he played Firebrand in the finals was kind of irrelevant. Knowing Chris, he was probably just having fun and trolling the audience a little. If anything it was more of a statement on how excellent his Morrigan play is, that his selection of a third character diddn't matter in the slightest, in a set against one of the best rushdown players in the world. He's better with Morrigan than pretty much anyone else's best character. Thats all it really comes down to.

    Yeah it is pretty stupid that if he ever does get a 3rd character, he will just attain another level of Super Saiyan at that point.  That's why I like it overall though because it shows in the end that player skill does take overall precedence in this game and it's not just solely about people spraying shit on the screen and abusing system mechanics like people make it out to be.  

    I do believe "getting in" is not the ideal way to fight against Morrigan.  If you have no choice but to get in you basically have to change your team.  There are other teams that are more versatile at dealing with Morrigan that don't revolve simply around running forward in with normals and throws.  Even if it's slower and takes more time to put together, it will eventually end up more consistent than the HAM as more top players get around to it.
    Post edited by DevilJin 01 on
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • Helter SkelterHelter Skelter DREAD GOD RED GOD BLACK GOD BLOOD GOD SEX GOD soon to be FLEX GOD Joined: Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭
    How would Skrull/Dorm/Doom work and which assists would be recommended?
    VERGIL•DORMAMMU•DOCTOR DOOM
  • CybitCybit Dictator for Life on the Isle of Noobism Joined: Posts: 37
    Watching streams; it seems that Filipino Champ is looking into using Magneto as his way of dealing with Morrigan (he is using new mobility tech being taught to him), and PR Rog is going to try switching to Dorm in order to deal with Morrigan.  I think they've given up on rushing in and trying to beat Morrigan down in the beginning.  That was the difference watching between SCR and WB; ChrisG had realized he can take serious advantage of people rushing in by actually rushing in himself and blowing up Wolverine.  He'd play keep away for a couple of seconds, and then swoop in with Morrigan and blow them up. 

    The other person I could see giving ChrisG a hard time is Apologyman, as Super Skrull has all sorts of ridiculous out of nowhere full screen hit confirms, and once Frank West gets going, that team is SOL. 
  • leafcolonelleafcolonel Apprentice of Magnetism Joined: Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭

    Can someone tell me what this "new" air mobility tech is? The Archives on FGTVlive are subscriber only iirc and I don't know what to look for.

    Please don't tell me it's air plink dashing that Tokido and KBeast have been doing for months.

  • OerbaOerba Just a joke! Joined: Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭
    Bleh...You guys gotta think more about Morrigan's traits. Think about her movement; she can only dash about in the air, she has no ground mobility. When she runs away from opponents, she jumps up and flies away. You start by limiting when she can move. Jam Session cuts off her escape route; she has to wait. Vajra stops her from doing whatever she's doing. When Dormammu gets an advantage in the zoning battle, it's because Purification cuts off her movement. Wolverine is fast, and his normals have very nice, high hitting hitboxes. Frank West when he's leveled has those chainsaws which cut off any jump-height movement, and the list continues... I'm not saying this'll help you beat ChrisG, but it'll help you beat up other Morrigan players.
  • CybitCybit Dictator for Life on the Isle of Noobism Joined: Posts: 37
    @leafcolonel: Don't know how to describe it (I haven't played MvC3 in years, suffered a hand nerve injury that makes my left hand not useful for precision twitch gaming, so I am out of fighting games), but it's basically some form of air dashing that lets you cross up or blast someone across the screen and zoom in to continue the combo. 

    @Oerba: The problem is, once the Morrigan player hits a certain level of execution, that stops working.  Or, in ChrisG's case, he just turns the offense on, because the chasing player has no way to defend when chasing Morrigan.  This is why I think PR Rog is going the route of Dorm; because ChrisG has figured out how to deal with attacking Wolverine players (see: JWong and PR Rog). 
  • OerbaOerba Just a joke! Joined: Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭
    Cybit said:
    @leafcolonel: Don't know how to describe it (I haven't played MvC3 in years, suffered a hand nerve injury that makes my left hand not useful for precision twitch gaming, so I am out of fighting games), but it's basically some form of air dashing that lets you cross up or blast someone across the screen and zoom in to continue the combo. 

    @Oerba: The problem is, once the Morrigan player hits a certain level of execution, that stops working.  Or, in ChrisG's case, he just turns the offense on, because the chasing player has no way to defend when chasing Morrigan.  This is why I think PR Rog is going the route of Dorm; because ChrisG has figured out how to deal with attacking Wolverine players (see: JWong and PR Rog). 

    The only Morrigan player of that level I know of is ChrisG, otherwise I can't really think of any Morrigan players where that shouldn't give you a fighting chance.

  • CybitCybit Dictator for Life on the Isle of Noobism Joined: Posts: 37
    Fair enough, but for the people we are talking about (FChamp, PR Rog); ChrisG IS the person they're worrying about.  Also, as time goes on, execution levels will steadily increase.  If ChrisG wins EVO (which in my eyes, he is a huge favorite to do), you will see MorriDoom become far more popular for higher level players. 

    Speaking of that, I need to go figure out if I know people in Vegas where I can stay for free during EVO...
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How would Skrull/Dorm/Doom work and which assists would be recommended?

    It would be alright.  The problem is Skrull trades the speed and close range options of Wolvie for a slower, but more full screen of effect footsie options.  Which means once you get going an assist + one of his normals or specials coudl get you what you need to get going, but it takes a lot of committment.  Skrull's safest options aren't really super scary for Morrigan and he has has zero projectile options which already puts him down on the "anti Morri/Doom tier list".   The best thing about the team really is just Dorm/Doom second if Dorm doesn't take an incoming mix up and  die...but there's other point characters that are better batteries for Dorm/Doom and have better projectile options.

    Cybit said:
    Watching streams; it seems that Filipino Champ is looking into using Magneto as his way of dealing with Morrigan (he is using new mobility tech being taught to him), and PR Rog is going to try switching to Dorm in order to deal with Morrigan.  I think they've given up on rushing in and trying to beat Morrigan down in the beginning.  That was the difference watching between SCR and WB; ChrisG had realized he can take serious advantage of people rushing in by actually rushing in himself and blowing up Wolverine.  He'd play keep away for a couple of seconds, and then swoop in with Morrigan and blow them up. 

    The other person I could see giving ChrisG a hard time is Apologyman, as Super Skrull has all sorts of ridiculous out of nowhere full screen hit confirms, and once Frank West gets going, that team is SOL. 

    Yeah I could see ApologyMan giving him some trouble...but it's the same "sometimes effective" deal of running in purely with normals and non projectile based moves which has proven to not be consistent against the best Morri/Doom.  He would definitely have to switch to plasma beam also since Skrull doesn't have the projectile game to force Morri/Doom into missiles.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 543 ✭✭
    I hope PR Rog isn't going to drop his team, he was onto something. It seems like people are seeking immediate results against Chris G, when Chris G wasn't even winning right away with MorriDoom. While he's stuck to his team, and improved with them, he seems to have everyone else switching characters at a whim.  And quite frankly, I think the reason so many people struggle against MorriDoom is that they have poorly built teams in the first place; now the person who was winning with Amaterasu/Ryu/Wesker (Vanilla) and Firebrand/Ryu/Hawkeye, decided to use a good team.

    Though I don't think that's the case with PR Rog. I think PR Rog had the best team next to Chris G's. It wouldn't make sense to switch teams when the only thing Chris G did differently at Winter Brawl was escape Wolverine at the beginning of the round. He should just try to adapt his approach too and see how that goes. Chris G didn't drop MorriDoom just because he lost at of SCR (though he did at Canada Cup mind you).

    Marlinpie managed to send Chris G to losers at SCR, and they have a storied number of matches against each others teams, with Chris G winning the majority. I don't think we'll be able to find anything that works against it if we keep dropping characters while Chris G continues to improve with his same team. 

    It may seem like I contradicted myself (people need to use better teams-people need to stick with their team), but what I'm trying to say is we need to use good teams and stick with it to really see how effective the team can be.

    Though I think Cybit's right in that soon we will see a lot more people picking up Chris G's team(s) as it seems it's the strongest thing out there, like Flocker did at CEO (which was funny!).
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • RECESSIONTIMERECESSIONTIME clever title Joined: Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    A lot of people have tried to imitate chrisg's team but with limited success in tournament. Chrisg has also convincing smashed all other morridoom teams. Also picking morridoom to beat morridoom is an admission in the belief that the team is endgame.
  • triplexraidertriplexraider Fall into darkness! Joined: Posts: 1,057
    Is Rog truly serious about using Dorm to counter Morrigan? I just can't picture Rog using Dorm since I'm just imagining him being Masta CJ 2.0 if all else fails. 

    I mean, if he replaces Wolverine with Dorm, a Vergil/Dormammu/Doom or (Doom/Dorm) would sound pretty sick and might help his chances. Could be the start of more point Vergil teams. 
    Manga Therapy - Where Psychology & Manga Meet (http://www.mangatherapy.com)
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  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    He'll try it for a day then realize it's not for him.
    That team is okay, but it's hard to find middle ground for the Doom assist. He'd probably end up using Plasma Beam to snipe Chris's missiles, which is good cause it's the better assist for Vergil too (and he needs something for neutral). But Dorm can only really get his bullshit going with missiles. The other problem is that Dorm gets fucking destroyed by Vergil, so he'd have to deal with that as well.
    But honestly, if FChamp couldn't do it, I don't see Rog doing it with Dorm.
    Ota City's Finest!
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    UMvC3:
    Main Squads - Nova β Doom α Ammy β
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  • triplexraidertriplexraider Fall into darkness! Joined: Posts: 1,057
    Isn't Champ still sticking to Dorm even though he's been frustrated with him as of late?
    Manga Therapy - Where Psychology & Manga Meet (http://www.mangatherapy.com)
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    UMvC3: Thor/Dormammu/Doctor Doom, Wesker/Doctor Strange/Vergil
  • Tickle BrisketTickle Brisket Joined: Posts: 72
    Its the team and ChrisG.I want to see a top play get really good with Strange and Dorm on the same team haha fuck morrigan or any projecticles for that matter.If morrigan throws one soul fist against strange just seven rings xfactor kill her..
  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2013
    Yeah, she can 0-frame unfly and avoid that. A lot of people I talk to in person seem to think that's a good strategy. It's not.
    Post edited by discovigilante on
    Ota City's Finest!
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    UMvC3:
    Main Squads - Nova β Doom α Ammy β
    Side Projects - Magneto/Strange/Ammy, Nova/Vergil/Strange, Ammy/Strange/Vergil, others
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah gambit meter spend options have fallen off vs. Morri without a meter build assist.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Honestly though, I think the one thing characters like Strange and Dorm have over Morrigan is the ability to rapid crossup teleport. Morrigan has to be really consistent with her inputs and teleporting like that fucks it up. I really can't think of a single assist that can cover that safely during the soul flood though.
    Ota City's Finest!
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  • <Insert Name Here>&lt;Insert Name Here&gt; Guesses right 100% of the time Joined: Posts: 6,731 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's kind of sad how people look at Seven Rings and think "Aha! I am invincible!"
    UMvC3: Magneto/Dormammu/Dante, Magneto/Dante/Frank West, M.O.D.O.K./Doctor Doom/Dante || BBCP: Relius
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  • mrtspencemrtspence Joined: Posts: 21
    I run Ironman (Unibeam/Repulsor) Dorm (black hole) Doom (Missiles). 

    I feel like my team has a lot of potential to do pretty alright against Morri/Doom. 

    I think Ironman is probably high-tier and has a pretty good matchup against Morri--he is just too damned hard/weird/underrated for most people (myself included) to pick up easily. His beam and repulsor are all good options on the ground (beam stuffs doom and repulsor clears all projectiles around IM). In the air, his beam does an ok job of getting the odd hit on morrigan and his smartbombs can occasionally stuff doom calls. He has normals that can easily beat out Morri's from longer ranges (his air up-heavy can even beat shellkick from many spacings), so her rushdown isn't that much of a worry. He has air-to-air confirms that can lead into combos that could kill Morri pretty easily, especially if she has taken some hits. IM matches up pretty well against doom and is actually not too bad against Vergil (his normals have similar ranges and tend to be faster and his air mobility is pretty good).

    That being said, aside from Joker, nobody else plays Ironman remotely close to the character's potential, so it is hard to say. The character is at least pretty good against morri/doom in theory. 

    To be perfectly honest, I think Chris G's success is almost entirely due to his insane skill and smarts. He has probably the best fundamentals of anybody out there--he is one of the best at smart throws, safe pressure, and confirming combos. If anybody does anything remotely unsafe against Chris, he is always there with a quick air-throw or a good normal to stuff them. Other good players like JRosa run Morri/doom and don't do nearly as well as him. The guy is one of the best--maybe even the best--and I think he could run any other top tier team and be doing just as well. 
  • Shin-RonShin-Ron fb/dorm/jam Joined: Posts: 617
    pretty sure with other morridooms with solid play appearing but not dominating like chris g is, we can say its more the player than the team (unlike the logan/jean era)
  • thriftstore gestapothriftstore gestapo Joined: Posts: 7
    in honesty, chris g is almost flawless as a whole. he has an exceptional morrigan and is not afraid to offense defend and do whats necessary. I was watching some videos relative to the topic. his morrigan is the biggest problem.when he looses her i noticed he tenses up a bit. saying this yes morrigan and the rest of the tean are good but it ddosent make up that he is honestly one of the greats.i feel that its 100% chris becuase he as the player has maximized the potential for morrigan and vergil.his doom is good but the threat his morrigan and vergil do is phenominal.also not to mention that you just adjusted too fighting morrigan and not rushing in here comes his vergil and then finally whats left of you doom can either dance around chip you out or just finish the job.he just clicked with his team. i guess it was kind of a perfect harmonyxD i mean if you look back to vanilla when he ran ryu ami and i think wesker (idk) he didnt accompolish as much or pose as much of a threat
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