I AM A SHADOW - Shadow Labrys thread (to replace the other one)

EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
edited July 2013 in Persona 4 Arena
Replacing the other Shadow Labrys thread because I was unable to reserve enough posts and hit the character limit. Post any new Shadow Labrys stuff here please and I will compile it all in the reserved posts.

Please post any information (combos, mixups, videos, questions) regarding Shadow Labrys. This isn't really intended to be a guide but more of a compilation of information.


Table of Contents
Post 1: Overview, Movelist(Normals, Persona Attacks, Special Moves, EX Moves, Supers, Awakening Supers, Instant Kill)
Post 2: Combos(Anywhere, Corner, Chie-only Combos, Comboing into Instant Kill)
Post 3: Vortex Setups(Autocombo AAAA, 2AB, jqcb+A/B, Throw, Using jBB in your combos in the corner)
Post 4: Gameplay(Shadow Labrys Specific Mechanics, When being pressured, Neutral Game, Applying Pressure, Qcb+A and OMC Mixups, Jump Cancel Mixups, The Titanomachia Glitch)
Post 5: Matchup and Tier Notes(Mitsuru, Yu, Aigis, Teddie, Chie, Yukiko, Elizabeth, Labrys, Shadow Labrys, Yosuke, Naoto, Kanji, Akihiko
Post 6: Videos(Combovideos, Matches to Study, Outdated Matches


Overview

Shadow Labrys is probably the most unique character out of the P4U cast, the main reason being that her persona, Asterius, acts like a second character, constantly out on the field.

Your persona will follow you around the screen, teleporting to your side if you stray too far from it. She is able to perform persona attacks at any time except during block and hitstun, and calling the persona to do an attack doesn't make her go into a casting startup pose like other characters do when they call their personas.

Playing Shadow Labrys will require you to manage two characters on the screen at once, though it is easier to manage than similar characters like Carl from BlazBlue and Eddie from Guilty Gear. The main challenge is the neutral game, making sure not to get persona broken when attacking and defending and learning how to use the persona's unique D move, which allows it to go into a blocking stance. The other challenge is discovering the timings to her ambiguous vortex setups, which can be a fun process but will require practice and experimentation.

Her persona's attacks are typically very slow and while some of them have some super armor properties, it's not that easy to rush down with her. Her gameplay will typically involve calling her persona while shielding it from being damaged until the attack executes, calling it in the middle of blockstrings to allow you to continue pressure, and landing knockdowns and setting up a persona attack for some ambiguous/unblockable mixups. You'll also need to ensure that the persona is protected because if it gets broken, Shadow Labrys without her persona is fairly limited as a character. Lastly, Shadow Labrys has the second lowest health in the game at 8000 and her damage output, per combo, is generally low (though the amount of combos she can land is high due to her vortex nature) so keep this in mind before picking her as a main.


Movelist

Format is (optional move name) - motion - damage

Normals

5A - 190
- a horizontal swipe with the axe
- comes out in 7 frames and the range is not that great
- jump cancellable

2A - 152
- she attacks with the end shaft of the axe, though it has poor range (smaller than 5A) but more hitstun than 5A, allowing to combo into 5B
- also comes out in 7 frames
- unfortunately can't rapidfire into itself or 5A
- low attack
- faster recovery than 5A

5B - 950
- a horizontal swipe with the axe, acting as a good ranged poke
- can only chain combo from 2A,not 5A unless counterhit
- fatal counter

2B - 760
- a slow anti-air attack with upperbody invincibility
- can be comboed into from fatalcounter 5B and counterhit 5A/2A
- has good recovery
- launches the opponent in the air and is jump cancellable on hit
- fatal counter
- air unblockable

2AB - 950
- a horizontal slice at the legs that makes her move forward a little after executing it
- hits low and knocks down
- not cancellable

5th Gen Axe Slash (R-Action) - BD - 855
- Shadow Labrys performs a baseball-swing with her axe, having full super armor the whole way through, coming out fairly quickly though not as fast as R-actions like Yu and Mitsuru's
- the attack has very good horizontal range and some vertical range, though the move itself doesn't really rise into the air
- it is punishable on block, though you can somewhat save yourself by using a persona attack or cancelling the move on block into a super
- wallbounces on counterhit and can be followed up with a combo

jA (Air only) - 190
- a diagonally downwards kick that comes out quick
- works well in combos but is fairly overshadowed by her jB when it comes to air to ground and pre-emptive air to airs
- jump cancellable

jB (Air only) - 570
- a circular slash with the axe that comes out slow but hits all around her
- this is probably her best normal attack by far, having a large hitbox all around her that acts as a great crossup
- you can also use it pre-emptively as an air to air, and cancel any hits into a double jump combo
- jump cancellable

B after jB (Air only) - 334(if done after jB, I don't think you can hit with it by itself)
- this is a followup move to her jB, performing a long range horizontal strike in the air, keeping her suspended in the exact position she was when she started the move
- wall bounces, making it useful in corner combos for the extra hitstun
- this move can only be done if your jB hits or is blocked, it will not come out on whiff
- has no practical use outside of combos
- jump cancellable


Persona Attacks

Knuckle Train - 5C (Air and Ground) - 1900
- the persona winds up and delivers a horizontal punch, reaching a fairly large distance but coming out slow
- hitting the opponent with this move causes them to get knocked down and slide along the floor for about a full screen length. It can be hard to chase them down to combo aftwards, unless you positioned Labrys in the way of the opponent so they slide into your sprite

Terra's Eruption - 2C (Air and Ground) - 5 hits doing total of 1423
- the persona creates a chain of fire, forming between it's horns, that hits 5 times
- works very well as a pre-emptive anti-air and gives you lots of time to run forward and confirm into an air combo if it hits
- this move can be crouched under, so using it to make some of your attacks safe won't necessarily save you from everything, especially if they're crouching right in front of you

Hammer Uppercut - 8C (Air and Ground) - 1900
- the persona burrows underground, then performs a rising uppercut attack from beneath the opponent, launching them high into the air
- the persona will appear based on where the opponent was when this attack was input. If the opponent moves from that spot, this move will appear from under the opponent's old position

Cliff of Creta - Any direction + D (Air and Ground)
- this is the persona's blocking move, which can be input and held whether you're running, jumping, in blockstun, in the middle of a non-persona attack...any position except being in hitstun or if the persona is in the middle of executing another attack
- there are certain attacks that get completely absorbed/nullified by this move and will shield Labrys herself if she's standing behind the persona (such as Chie's meteors), but other attacks such as Elizabeth's disruptor, will pass through the persona's block state


Special Moves

Guillotine Axe - qcb+A or B - first hit 285, second hit by itself only 1520(A), 2280(B)
- she winds up and smashes the ground hard with her axe, doing 2 hits
- the second hit is an overhead and does huge damage if it hits by itself. For an overhead, the move comes out decently fast, and the first hit (which isn't an overhead) is quite fast
- qcb+B version is slower than qcb+A but does more damage (760 damage more on the last hit)

Guillotine Aerial - qcb+A or B (Air only) - 3 hits doing total of 798(A), 1083(B)
- Labrys drops vertically downwards with her axe. The move can do 3 hits, the first one hitting relatively quickly, the second one "grabbing" the opponent and pulling them down to the ground, where the third hit occurs
- qcb+B does more damage than the A version but comes out slower
- this is your main combo ender after an air combo, causing a knockdown and giving enough time to call your persona and set up a mixup on their wakeup
- overhead on the first hit

Flames of Hades - qcf+C or D - 7 hits doing total of 1615, last hit is 950 unscaled
- her persona breathes in and then emits a laser diagonally from it's mouth into the ground. The laser itself does a few hits (about 6) and on the last hit, erupts into a flame, launching the opponent into the air
- the fact that it has a very long startup makes it impossible to use on reaction to anything, and against a number of characters it's probably asking to get the persona hit if you're using it up close
- where this move shines is for some ambigious left/right mixups off of knockdowns, which can lead to some good easy to confirm combos, as well as giving you frame advantage on block to attempt some high/low mixups
- the laser and the pillar of flames that rise up at the end, can hide SLab's sprite, allowing her to mask some of her moves (jumps, airdashes, lows, overheads) behind the pillar

Buffalo Hammer - qcb+C or D - full screen shock is 285, physical part is 1520(C) and 2280(D)
- her persona raises both fists into the air and slams the ground
- the attack has two parts - first the fists come down and hit the opponent physically, doing a lot of damage. The second part is a full screen shockwave that hits low but does very low damage (only 285)
- i can't notice any difference between the qcb+C and qcb+D versions except the physical part of qcb+D version does much more damage (2280 compared to 1520)

Massive Slaughter - charge back forward + C or D - 2280
- the persona burrows slightly underground, waits, then lunges forward, swallowing the opponent, then spitting them into the air
- this is a unblockable grab move that has a large hitbox, able to swallow many attacks
- C version travels about half screen distance and starts up faster, D version travels about 2/3 screen distance but starts up slower
- it is possible to continue the combo after they are launched into the air, though it requires some practice. Preferably, you want to learn the timing for hitting the opponent with 2B just as they get spit out, then continuing into an air combo


EX Moves

Guillotine Axe - qcb+AB - first hit 285, second hit alone is 1900
- overhead on the second hit only
- completely untechable in the air and ground if it hits by itself, allowing OTGs afterwards
- it is possible to cancel this move on either hit into either R-action or another Guillotine Axe (including another EX version)

Guillotine Aerial - qcb+AB (Air only) - all 3 hits doing a total of 940
- can't find a reason to use this move at all

Buffalo Hammer - qcb+CD - full screen shock is 285, physical part is 1900
- the physical contact of this move does more damage then the regular A version but less than the B version. The full screen earthquake effect does the same measly damage of 285
- if the physical part of this move connects, they can't tech in the air, so it's easy to followup with a combo from 2B
- this move has full super armor until it completes

Flames of Hades - qcf+CD - 7 hits doing total of 1615, last hit of it is 950 unscaled
- has slightly longer startup than the regular version but has full super armor

Massive Slaughter - charge back forward + CD - 2280
- comes out faster than the regular version but has shorter range, traveling about a third screen length
- has full super armor


Supers

Challenge Authority - qcfx2+C or D - 2280(C), 2470(D)
- the persona winds up and performs knuckle punch to the screen. The location of the punch is dependent on the location of the persona at the time of doing this move, but the hitbox is still reasonably big
- this move has very good invincibility, all the way until after the punch has occurred. Unfortunately, it has long recovery, the persona is in recovery and can't be used to save you, and this move cannot be OMCed to safety at any point
- C version comes out faster than D but does less damage


Awakening Supers

Brutal Impact - qcbx2+A or B - 2850(A), 4275(B)
- Shadow Labrys performs a heavy swing with her axe, doing high damage and having super armor the entire way through, though having terrible recovery if blocked
- the B version can be delayed further by holding down B
- the A version comes out somewhat quickly (though not fast enough to combo from normals), while the B version takes a very long time to come out (about 2 seconds if not held, up to 4 seconds if held)
- the persona attacks, with the exception of the qcfx2+C/D super, can be input at any point during this attack, making the qcbx2+A extremely hard to punish if you hit 5C immediately after inputting the super


Titanomachia - qcbx2+C or D (Air and ground) - the full screen finisher does 3230
- during the initial flash of the super, the player can input up to a maximum of 3 persona attacks. The combination of these attacks can't have more than one of the same attack (so for instance, 2C, 8C, qcb+C is valid while 2C, 8C, 2C is invalid)
- after inputting those moves, your persona will execute them in that order with full super armor(except to supers) and once they are complete, he will perform a full screen attack that launches the opponent into the air on hit and can be followed up with a combo
- qcbx2+C will make your persona start attacking from where you're standing, while qcbx2+D will make him teleport behind the opponent and start hit attacks from there
- the recovery on the initial activation of this move is not instant and she can be hit out of it. If she is hit at any point after the activation, the persona will not perform the rest of the autoguard moves and the finisher



Instant Kill

Labyrinthos Gate - 222+AB to activate, then 222+AB to perform the instant kill
- inputting this attack puts you into an "instant kill mode" and uses 100SP, creating a timer bar that appears below
- the timer bar depletes gradually over time and while in the "instant kill mode", you can hit 222+AB again to perform the actual instant kill
- the actual instant kill is a delayed grab and doesn't cost any additional SP on top of the 100SP required to get into the instant kill mode
- the instant kill grab can be attempted as many times as possible until the timer bar depletes - even if you attempt the grab and miss, you will stay in the instant kill mode and the bar will keep depleting
Post edited by Emil on
KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman

Comments

  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    edited July 2013
    Combos

    Notations:
    j = jump
    sj = superjump
    dj = doublejump
    AoA = all out attack
    OMC = one more cancel
    CH = counterhit
    FC = fatal counter

    Your main goal when comboing with Shadow Labrys is to try to end your combos with knockdowns, typically your air qcb+A/B. These will give your persona enough time to perform an attack and for you to set your vortex up. Ending in a 2AB sweep also gives you some vortex options.

    Keep in mind you can add on an optional qcfx2+C super to every listed combo ending in air qcb+A/B. It will do about 720 damage more but will not give you an opportunity to set up any mixups afterwards. Preferably, this should be used if your combo will kill the opponent or put them in very near death (like one hit away).


    Anywhere

    1. 5AAAA - 1154

    This is her autocombo and it's one of the most important combos for SLab, not just because of the meter gain and burst gauge increase, but also because it ends in a knockdown and sets up vortex mixups afterwards. She will be utilizing the autocombo more than other characters do.

    Keep in mind also that the range of the autocombo isn't that great. If your initial 5A lands from reasonably far away, you usually won't be able to connect with the 4th A that results in the knockdown. You will need to decide whether to cancel the 2nd A into qcb+A for the knockdown and sacrifice the meter gain on the third A, or to get the meter instead.

    You can input a 5th A optionally to perform the qcfx2+C super. The damage is typically not worth it, since you won't get a vortex situation afterwards but if it will kill the opponent, then go for it.



    2. mash 5A, hit 5AC during 3rd hit of 5A, 5A - 1572

    This is a combo that allows you to do some extra damage after an autocombo, at the cost of no mixup opportunity afterwards. It does slightly less damage than cancelling to super, but slides the opponent all the way across the screen and you can run after them in an attempt to corner them. Your 5C should be input as 5AC exactly when the third 5A connects but before you input 5AC, you should be mashing 5A so that you see the third 5A come out and make contact. When it does, mash 5AC. Otherwise, there is a chance that your 5C might whiff.



    3. 2A, 5B, 2AB or 2A, 5B, qcb+A - 855 or 833

    This is a low damage combo but there aren't many options from a non-counterhit 2A. In this combo, the 2AB will hit from pretty much any range, and will set up some ambiguous mixups afterwards. If the 2A lands from very close, you can instead perform the combo 2A, 5B, qcb+A which will give different kinds of mixup options afterwards.



    4. 2A, 5B, 2AB, 2C(must be input immediately after inputting 2AB), jB, j(A, qcb+A) - 1767

    A way to do more damage after a 2A, 5B and to set up your vortex. Note that the 2C will usually miss if done at the maximum range or if your persona is far from your character.



    5. 2A, 5BC, 2AB, 5C hits - 1501

    The way this combo works is that you do the 5C in advance (preferably when you press 5B or immediately after) and it will hit after the 2AB hits. The 5C in this combo results in decent damage, sliding the opponent far away (and towards the corner) as you chase after them. If used in an attack string, it allows you to advance forward for additional pressure, while the opponent blocks the 5C. If done in the corner, allows you to continue the combo further.



    6. R-action(CH), 5A, j(A, qcb+A) - 1313

    This combo does low damage but sets up some vortex opportunities with the knockdown.



    7. R-action(CH), hit 8C at the end of R-action recovery, 5A, j(A, qcb+A), 8C hits, qcb+B - 1962

    This does much more damage than the other variations and has interesting followups afterwards, which will be mentioned in the vortex section. Make sure to hit the 8C as late as possible, before you recover from your R-action, to give you more time to combo your qcb+B.



    8. 5AAA, 2C, jB, dj(A, qcb+A) - 1434

    A midscreen combo that gives you the bonuses of the third hit of the autocombo and lets you get a bit more damage and closer positioning. Keep in mind that this combo has a lot of hitstun and so the opponent can flip out fairly quick after getting hit by the air qcb+A. You can still do a decent setup, but not enough time for some of the better setups.



    9. mash 5A, hit 5AC during 3rd hit of 5A, 5A, qcbx2+A - 2472

    If you input this combo the same way as stated in combo 2, you can add on the qcbx2+A awakening super. Otherwise, the opponent will get knocked back too far from the 5C and the super will whiff.


    10. 5A(CH), 2B, jB, dj(A, qcb+B), 2C, jB, dj(A, qcbA) - 2065

    This is a pretty basic combo you can go into from a counterhit 5A. You will be using this combo often to punish Mitsuru's R-action before she touches the ground, as well as punishing certain moves on block that can only be punished by counterhit 5A or 2A.



    11. 5C, 2B, jB, dj(A, qcb+B) - 2771
    12. 5C, 2B, jB, dj(B, qcb+B) - 2885

    This is the combo you want to do off of a landed 5C and Shadow Labrys has many setups to land it. The version that uses djA is pretty easy to do, while the one with djB will be techable if you just barely mistime it. It does more damage but is probably not worth attempting. It is possible to extend this combo further by doing 2C, jqcb+B but the opponent will be able to tech out earlier and your persona will still be in recovery, while the above 2 versions will give you great positioning afterwards to continue your vortex.



    13. 5B(FC), 2B, jB, dj(B, qcb+B), 2C, jB, dj(B, qcb+B) - 3154

    This is a basic fatal counter combo used to punish moves with long recoveries, such as blocked or whiffed r-actions, supers and instant kills. Make sure that for all of your jumps and double jumps, you are jumping forward or the combo won't work. The very last djB in this combo, can be easily dropped in lag (like while playing online), so for consistency there, I'd recommend replacing the last dj(B, qcb+B) with dj(A, qcb+B) for slightly lower damage but less risk of drop.



    14. 5B(FC), run up 5AA, run up 5AA, 2B, sj(B, qcb+B), 2C, jB, dj(A, qcb+A) - 2698

    This fatal counter combo is one you'd use when you land a 5B fatal counter while not expecting to do so and being unable to hit confirm to 2B. Instead, you'd dash up and do 5AA(two hits of the autocombo), wait, then 5AA (again, two hits of the autocombo). You must do atleast two 5AA's though, because the 2B won't combo after the first one. Also keep in mind, this combo is very heavy on hitstun deterioration - it is possible to still supercancel at the very end into qcfx2+C but the timing is much stricter.



    15. charge back f+C or D or CD, 2B, jB, dj(A, qcb+A) - 2803

    This is probably going to be your best combo off of a command grab and it's important to learn it in order to continue the vortex. It's hard to time the 2B to hit low to the ground (to make it easier to followup with the rest of the combo). When the persona grabs the opponent, you will hear a series of munching sounds. Hitting 2B at the third munch, will time it just right.



    16. 8C, qcb+B - 2584

    It's pretty hard to follow after an 8C because they get launched up so high and they can drop down pretty quick. Since qcb+B is a very meaty attack, you can throw it out early (like near the beginning of the opponent's descent back to the ground) and it will combo for respectable damage.



    17. 2C(CH), 2B, jB, dj(A, qcb+B), 2C, jB, dj(A, qcb+A) - 3296

    This combo does pretty good damage and I feel like many times, players will land 2C counterhit and not fully capitalize on it. Typically if you go straight into jB after 2C, your persona doesn't have enough time to recover and do another 2C by the time you end your first air qcb+B. If you instead do 2B, it gives your persona enough time to recover and position itself near you for the second 2C.

    The 2B should be timed the moment the flames start disappearing (after the last hit of the 2C connects). Hard to explain but if you play around with it in practice mode, the timing to land 2B at a low height will become obvious.



    18. 5C(the attack must hit so that the opponent is punched towards your sprite), wait a bit after it hits, 5AAAA, press 5C as early as you can between those 5A's, 5C hits - 2967
    19. 5C(the attack must hit so that the opponent is punched towards your sprite), wait a bit after it hits, 5AAAA, press 5C as early as you can between those 5A's, 5C hits, qcbx2+A - 3867

    This combo does marginally more damage than some other alternative after 5C hits. The nice thing about it is the autocombo building the extra meter. In addition, if you want to add a super at the end, you can use the more damaging qcbx2+A rather than qcfx2+C - it also doesn't count as a supercancel since you're just linking it after the second 5C hits and its extremely easy to do.



    20. R-action(CH), qcbx2+C, (input 2C, 5C), run in 5A, 5B, 2C hit, sj(B, qcb+A), land and supercancel qcbx2+B and hold B, 5C hits, titanomachia finisher hits, release B as opponent is falling - 4507-4566

    This is a fairly basic Titanomachia combo and is pretty easy to do as opposed to some other ones. Release the B button when the opponent is descending and their sprite has reached the center of the screen.



    21. (Persona broken) 5B(FC), 2B, jB, dj(B, qcb+B), supercancel qcbx2+A - 3186

    This is a useful combo to do if you're awakened, persona broken and you land a fatal counter. The situation is exactly not that uncommon - you could have performed a vortex setup when you had one card left and they did an R-action that broke the persona but whiffed you entirely. Since you're persona broken, you can only supercancel to qcbx2+A. It does more damage than qcfx2+C but qcbx2+A only combos on fatal counter and only after one launch.



    22. Guard Cancel, 2C, jB, dj(A, qcb+A) - 771

    Yep, she can combo after her guard cancel. The damage is low but it builds a little meter and more importantly, results in a hard knockdown to begin the vortex. The timing to land the 2C is pretty strict...you need to be hitting 2C immediately after you hit the buttons to guard cancel.



    Corner

    1. 5AAA, 2C(must be input at or right before the third A), sj(B, B, qcb+B) - 1677
    Can also be input as 5AAA, 2C, j(B, B), dj qcb+B - 1677

    This combo makes use of the first 3 hits of the autocombo (for the meter and burst gauge gain) and does a bit more damage while setting up a vortex from close up with air qcb+B rather than the 4th hit of the autocombo which sets it up far away.



    2. 5B(FC), 2B, sj(B, B, qcb+B), 2C, (wait for end of flames), j(B, B), dj(A, qcb+B) - 3300

    Pretty straightforward fatal counter combo in the corner. There's better ones but this one is very easy and straightforward to do.


    3. 5B(FC), 2B, sj(B, B, qcb+B), 2C, (don't wait), j(B, B), dj(B, B, qcb+B, hit 5C immediately after), 5C connects, qcbx2+A - 4582

    This particular combo needs to be timed perfectly or it's going to drop at another of points in the combo. The 2C must be done late enough, so that you can control Shadow Labrys as early as possible and do jBB while the flames are hitting (not when they're about to finish). The 5C must be input immediately after inputting the qcb+B motion, or the opponent will be able to tech out before 5C hits.


    4. input 5C, qcb+A, 5C connects, 2B, j(B, B), dj(qcb+B), 2C, j(B, B), dj(qcb+B) - 2857
    5. input 5C, qcb+B, 5C connects, 2B, j(B, B), dj(qcb+B), 2C, j(B, B), dj(qcb+B) - 3617



    6. 5C, wait a bit after it hits, 5AAAA, press 5C as early as you can between those 5A's, 5C hits - 2967
    7. 5C, wait a bit after it hits, 5AAAA, press 5C as early as you can between those 5A's, 5C hits, qcbx2+A - 3867

    Same as the midscreen combo except the opponent doesn't need to get punched into your sprite but can be punched into the corner.



    8. charge back f+C/D, wait until 4th hit of the move appears, j(B, B), dj(B, B, qcb+B) - 3037

    This is a more damaging combo after the command grab. It can be hard to time at first without practicing it, but the key to the combo is having your first jB hit above the opponent's sprite, so that everything afterwards can juggle properly. Also keep in mind, this combo has a lot of hitstun deterioration so the opponent will be able to recover quickly...you'll have to compensate by inputting your next persona attack mixup earlier.



    Chie-only Combos

    There are certain combos that work only on Chie and they allow you to get additional juggles. The way it works is that for whatever reason, if you land an airturned air qcb+A/B on Chie, it launches her straight up with a very long untechable window. So an example of such a combo would be after landing 5C, you input 2B, j(airturn A, qcb+B), land, then j(A, qcb+A). The advantage of these combos isn't just that they do more damage but they also give your persona (in certain situations) more time to position itself close to you and start the next mixup after a knockdown. It's particularly useful for having more time to set up the unblockable command grab loop.

    For now I won't be listing all the Chie-only combos, but you can watch this video by Bananaken that shows more combos and explains how they work:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0NDs86iTmk


    Comboing into the Instant Kill

    It is possible to combo into the instant kill in the corner and it is actually fairly easy to do. The best way is to cancel your attacks (generally an air qcb+A/B as it hits the ground) into OMB while you are in the IK mode and then immediately input the IK. Because of the limited range of the IK and the fact that OMB doesn't just pop the opponent vertically upwards but also pushes them back a bit, you have to be as deep in the corner as possible. Because of this, using 5C in a combo is great because it slides them far along the floor towards the corner, where you can launch them up into an air combo into OMB, or the very least, if you can't combo after the 5C, they will be in the corner where any combo afterwards can lead into the IK.

    Here is a video of Bananaken landing the instant kill combo

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v1G_U_t_Ls

    It is also possible to combo into the IK without entering IK mode before the combo but it requires 150SP and burst available:

    5AAA, 5AB, OMC, IK mode immediately, 2AB, OMB, IK

    Ultimately, IK combos are easy to execute but there are too many factors that need to line up for you to pull them off. You must have atleast 100SP and be in awakening. You must have your burst available and the opponent must not have their burst available. You must also be in corner (with the exception of some very specific combos that are much harder to land). And lastly, you must actually enter your IK mode before you do your combo, and the combos that allow you to enter IK mode and land the IK all in the same combo, are much more complicated to do and require more meter.
    Post edited by Emil on
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    edited July 2013
    Vortex Setups

    Shadow Labrys has many different setups from many different starters. The way I've decided to organize this is by move starter. While there are some options that work after multiple different starters, they all have their own timings, as well as their own different variations from the same starter that changes the way the opponent needs to block it.


    Autocombo AAAA

    1A) Land an autocombo 5AAAA, input qcf+C exactly when the third hit connects, run forward

    Not really a vortex but it forces the opponent to block the laser when they get up, and allows you to perform some additional pressure while they are blocking the laser. It also pushes them back further into the corner and allows you to advance after them. Make sure not to attack until the opponent has started blocking the laser. You can also IAD after running, while they are blocking the laser, and then either jB or empty IAD into low. The last hit of the laser causes a flame to appear, obscuring the opponents vision and SLab should be trying to land inside this flame when performing the IAD.


    2A) Land an autocombo 5AAAA, input qcf+C between the third and fourth hit connecting, run forward and roll

    With this particular setup, you will have enough time to roll through the opponent's sprite as the laser comes out, allowing for a left/right mixup. Be careful when using this against certain R-actions that can hit from the front and behind, like Kanji, Mitsuru and Teddie. It's advisable not to attempt this setup against these characters unless you made them respect the setup by running forward and doing nothing.


    3A) Land an autocombo 5AAAA, input qcf+C just before/after the last A begins executing, IAD into jB

    The intention of this setup is for the laser to hit at the same time that the IAD jB will crossup. If you want the laser to hit just after your IAD crosses up, then you'd input the qcf+C just after you input the 4th A in the autocombo. The qcf+C should be input when the 4th A is starting to come out. If you want the laser to hit just before, you'd input the 4th A as qcf+AC and after you have seen that the 3rd hit has connected.

    Depending on how you time the crossup, many R-actions will end up coming out the wrong way. The persona is safe in this setup because he is firing the laser from a distance where R-actions aren't going to hit. Against some characters, this mixup is risky because they might have attacks that hit from behind, such as Kanji and Mitsuru. In this case, it is recommended to IAD into an airturned airblock instead.

    This setup can be jumped out of if you are trying to do the crossup. If they keep trying to jump, you can input your qcf+C even earlier in the combo so that it hits during their jump vulnerability frames.

    If the opponent blocks this correctly, they'll be forced into blockstun, giving you a chance to apply some high/low mixups. Use 2A, AoA, qcb+A/B or crossup jB. Also keep in mind that there is a gap between the last hit of the laser and the explosion. During this gap, they can mash out a reversal, but at the same time, that gap also gives you an opportunity to crossup by rolling through them just as the explosion occurs. You can also IAD backwards into jA or empty IAD backwards into low B, while they are blocking the laser. You will move backwards but the laser will push them forward, so you will still be right beside them. If done right, your IAD mixup will connect right before the last hit of the laser, and if they fail to block, the last hit will pop them up and you can continue with an air combo.


    4A) Land an autocombo AAAA, input qcf+C just before/after the last A begins executing, IAD jA -> jB

    This particular setup is similar to the one above except the IAD jA will hit in the front, while the jB afterwards will hit from behind. While this air chain doesn't combo, even the slightest alteration in the timing of the IAD and how the jA hits, will affect whether the laser crosses up or not (because the jA does a slight amount of pushback, which affects how far you need to travel in the IAD to switch sides). If the laser is performed late enough, it can combo after the jA and before the jB makes contact.


    5A) Land an autocombo 5AAAA, input qcf+C just before/after the last A begins executing, IAD airturn and airblock

    Use this to block any reversals that might come out as you switch sides on the opponent. It is especially good against R-actions that hit from behind, such as Kanji's and Mitsuru's. When players are aware of this airblocking setup, it will deter them from mashing R-actions. This setup will not work against Teddie's R-action, since it is unblockable and hits behind him.


    6A) Land an autocombo 5AAAA, input qcf+C just before/after the last A begins executing, superjump and immediately air turn into forward airdash

    SLab's backwards airdash travels shorter and drops down faster than her forward one. In this particular setup, you are airturning and then airdashing in the forward direction, resulting in performing a backdash while moving forward.

    It's necessary here because with a forward airdash, will go way past the opponent and won't look ambigious. The backdash on the other hand, will drop down behind them at an arc just as the laser connects. This setup also allows you to airblock whatever they reversal with.


    7A) Land an autocombo 5AAAA, input qcf+C just before/after the last A begins executing, run up 5A into IAD airturn into airblock

    The purpose of the 5A before the jump cancel IAD is to lock down the opponent and take just enough time for your persona to charge up the laser. Your IAD will switch sides with the opponent at the same time that the laser makes contact. It's very difficult to read this particular setup and you can mix it up with other things, like cancelling the 5A into qcb+A, 2AB, AoA or jump cancel to airblock to punish reversals.

    Keep in mind that if the laser hits after you IAD over them, you need to make your character run into the opponent's sprite, to push them into the final hit of the laser. Otherwise, the last hit will miss. This only happens if the laser is started far away from the opponent.

    The risk in this setup is the opponent waking up with an R-action or super against your 5A, so you should train them first to be afraid of doing that by using other setups that bait and punish them.



    2AB

    Many of the setups that are used from a throw can be used after 2AB. The main issue is that not all of the setups will work depending on how close/far you land your 2AB. Using 2AB is probably the least favorable ender of a combo to start a vortex, but in some situations it is the only ender you can use. Keep in mind also that you can do a 2AB combo into 2C, which can end in a much more favorable ender, air qcb+A/B. You can also OMC after a 2AB into an air combo ending in air qcb+A/B.


    1C) During recovery from 2AB, press 5C, immediately qcb+A/B or 2AB or nothing after recovering from your 2AB

    This isn't really a vortex setup but it's an option you have after landing pretty much any move. The goal is to hit with your mixup attack as a meaty right before the 5C connects, in which case you can combo afterwards if you're in/near the corner. Can be countered on reaction so mix your options here with just blocking instead (while still throwing out the 5C for blockstun).


    jqcb+A/B

    1D) Land an air qcb+A/B(and charge back while executing it), enter charge back f+C command grab the moment Labrys touches the ground, walk up and do instant jA right after the opponent ground techs

    This is one nasty setup - it is unblockable and only a few characters can escape it reliably. The way it works is that the command grab becomes active if the opponent immediately techs or never techs. It will grab them unless the opponent jumps away. The jA, if done right, will hit them out of the jump startup vulnerability frames, leading to an air combo that does pretty low damage (about 1K) but leads to the same unblockable setup. If timed properly, the grab can't be backdashed or rolled and most R-actions and reversal supers will get eaten or will come out but not hit you.

    When doing the jA, hit B once and hold forward (in the direction of your jump) in case the jA connects, so you can go into a j(A, B), dj(A, qcb+B) combo. If they reversal, your jB won't come out and you will be able to block whatever reversal comes out. In terms of R-actions, the only ones to look out for in this setup are Mitsuru's (obviously), Kanji's, Teddie's and Yukiko's, for the reason that Teddie's is unblockable and if you aren't blocking like stated above, Mitsuru, Kanji and Yukiko will hit you from behind. The rest will not connect.

    The counter R-actions(Naoto, Chie and Yosuke) won't hit you because the jA only makes contact with the opponent if they jump and not if they are grounded...their counters will activate when the command grab connects, but you will be up and over their heads by the time the counter can hit you. You should be able to land before the counter attack has recovered and punish.

    Also keep in mind that some reversal supers can hit you out of this setup or be used as an escape. Akihiko can use Maziodyne to escape the setup, though he can be punished severely after you airblock it unless he OMCs it. Yosuke's Garudyne can hit you out of the jA. Some characters can use certain EX moves with invincibility to escape the setup, such as Naoto's EX dash. See the character specific matchup section for details.

    A late tech can escape this setup, if timed properly...if players are using late techs, you can try delaying your B command grab, or using the D one instead.




    2D) (Corner only) End your combo with jqcb+A/B and immediately input qcf+C while high in the air.

    The point of this setup is to force them to block on their wakeup, while they are cornered. Gives you a lot of time to perform a variety of high/low mixups before they exit blockstun.


    3D) Land an air qcb+A/B, input qcf+C close to the end of the descent of air qcb+A/B, run forward and jump over their sprite, optionally backwards airdash

    For this setup, the idea is to make it obvious that you are going for a crossup, but then after you've switched sides, you can input a backwards airdash to switch sides again before the laser hits. What makes this setup great to use with the laser and not the 5C is that even if you backdash in the direction opposite of where the laser is hitting, you still have more than enough time to run forward and combo after it. With 5C, they get dragged along the ground pretty quickly and you can't catch up to it unless you're close to the corner already.


    4D) Land an air qcb+A/B, input qcf+C close to the end of the descent of air qcb+A/B, run up 5A, jc IAD into airturn and airblock

    For this setup, the qcf+C should be input sometime near the end of the descent of the air qcb+A/B. Refer to setup 5A) off an autocombo, for the details regarding this setup. You don't need to run into the opponent's sprite after crossing up, to get the last hit of the laser to connect.


    5D) Input qcf+C immediately after inputting your air qcb+A/B finisher, roll when you recover from the air qcb+A/B (or do nothing)

    This setup simply allows you to roll through the opponent and have the laser hit as you switch sides. The timing is pretty straightforward but the setup is still quite effective. In the corner, just block and let the laser come out, it will lock them down for some time, allowing for a better mixup than if you used 5C.


    6D) Land an air qcb+A/B, qcf+D exactly when you touch the ground, jB, land and roll through immediately for a crossup (or instead 2B or qcb+A or throw or block or some other option)

    In this setup, you do one crossup with jB and if that connects, you go straight into a combo. If it gets blocked, you can immediately roll and have the laser come out just as you switch sides, resulting in a second crossup.


    7D) (Corner only) End your combo with sj(B, B, slight delay, qcb+B), making opponent land behind you, hit 5C when you land and jump over them with airturn airblock

    This setup allows you to perform a midscreen crossup mixup from a corner combo. If you use the combo of 5AAA, 2C, sj forward(B, B, qcb+B), the opponent will land behind, allowing you to then do an easy 5C crossup. You can do it from other kinds of combos but requires you to delay the air qcb+B. Will require practice mode to get down the timing.


    8D) Land an air qcb+A/B, cancel last hit to qcbx2+D(input no extra moves), either immediately roll or walk back a slight bit before rolling

    The purpose of this setup is to time the roll just as the full screen finisher of the super comes out, making it ambiguous. Whether you roll immediately or you roll a bit before walking backwards, it's still going to crossup. The backwards walk makes it seem a bit more ambiguous, but the walk should be done for only a few frames and not after the superflash of the full screen super comes out. If done properly, the setup cannot be countered by any R-actions except Teddie's.


    9D) Land an air qcb+A/B, cancel last hit to qcbx2+D(input no extra moves), walk forward/backward slightly(or don't walk at all) and roll immediately AFTER the super flash

    In this setup, if you walked back slightly, it will not crossup but otherwise, it will crossup. This setup is much more ambigious because during the super flash, the screen freezes and the opponent sees that you haven't rolled, and yet if you roll right after the flash, you will switch sides just before the super hits. This setup can be punished by some R-actions, such as Yu's, Mitsuru's, Aegis' and Teddie's. If they've caught on, you can just block instead of roll.



    Throw

    1E. Throw, hit 5C just when the "hit" portion of the throw registers or just after it, normal jump forward immediately after (hold upforward as the throw finishes) and airturn while air blocking

    The purpose of this setup is to have the 5C punch connect just before/after you switch sides. The jump itself should be done immediately upon recovering from the throw - it is the timing of the 5C button press that determines if a crossup will occur. If you hit it exactly when Labrys hits the opponent when they are on the ground, then the setup will look like it will crossup but won't. If you hit it just slightly after (like maybe a frame or few afterwards), the setup will look practically the same but will crossup.

    You should be airblocking during this setup to block any R-actions and reversal supers. In many cases they will go the wrong way. The opponent has a very small window to input anything and there's a good chance that if they are inputting something that isn't an R-action, their inputs will get reversed. This setup can't be jumped out of, mashed through with normals, or counterthrown. There are only two things (to my knowledge) you need to watch out for - Yosuke's Sukukaja (assuming he can execute it, which will avoid the setup and put you in a pressure situation) and Teddy's R-action, which is unblockable and hits from behind.

    When the 5C hits, the opponent should slide along the floor and into your sprite, allowing you to combo easily into 2B without chasing after them.



    Using jBB in your combos in the corner

    In the corner, you should try to end most of your air combos with a jBB, qcb+B (or jBB, dj qcb+B, depending on what the combo is) in such a way that there is a small gap between the opponent's sprite and the corner. You can make this gap occur because jBB causes a wallbounce, so even if the combo was done in the corner, the wallbounce will make them slightly bounce away from the corner, creating this tiny gap. When the air qcb+B drops them to the ground, you will still be able to use left/right mixups even though the opponent looks like they are completely in the corner. You can vary the timings of your qcb+B after jBB such that sometimes there is a small gap between the opponent in the corner and sometimes there isn't. This will make it much harder for them to block a left right mixup afterwards.

    One fun thing to do using this is to superjump forward into the corner when doing your next mixup. Your character will be able to avoid all of the opponent's reversal wakeup options and the screen will move upwards, making it difficult for the opponent to judge how they need to block.
    Post edited by Emil on
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    edited June 2013
    Gameplay

    Shadow Labrys Specific Mechanics

    SLab's mechanics are very different than other character's, so this section deals with those specifics.

    Her persona is constantly on the field and can be attacked at any time. It has superarmor against all hits that do 400 damage or less, whether it is doing nothing or performing attacks. Any move that does more than this amount of damage per hit, will result in the persona losing a persona card, disappearing and reappearing beside you in roughly 1 second.

    If Shadow Labrys herself is hit while the persona is not doing any particular move, the persona will disappear and reappear in about 2 seconds. In this situation, it doesn't lose a card. If Shadow Labrys is hit while the persona is performing an attack, then even if the move doesn't hit the persona, the persona will lose a persona card.

    If the persona is in the middle of performing an attack that isn't an EX move and Shadow Labrys blocks an attack, it will stop what it's doing, disappear and reappear in front of you instantly.

    When the persona disappears, you not only won't be able to use your persona attacks until it returns, but you also won't be able to burst. Because of this, bursting while you have about 10% health left, isn't such a good idea since you will die before your persona returns, so you might have to consider using your bursts in earlier combos or using gold burst.

    The persona's D move can block any attack including unblockable attacks like Teddie's Circus Bear super.

    She is able to perform a persona attack in the middle of a normal attack, special move, non-persona super(qcbx2+A/B), system mechanic (roll, hop, all out attack, r-action), walk, dash, airdash and jump. She can't perform any persona attacks while she is being hit, and the only persona move she can do when blocking is the D block. Persona attacks can't be cancelled into other ones



    When being pressured

    Shadow Labrys has relatively limited options when being pressured, and whatever options she has can get countered if the opponent's reactions are good enough.

    Her R-action can be used to counter a number of things in front of her and a little bit above her but not directly above her since its more of a horizontal reversal rather than a vertical one. It has super armor for the entire duration until it finishes executing, and can also avoid throws. Unfortunately, while you're going to be hitting many people with this move, it won't work so well against better players. Since the move has super armor, hitting it slows it down. This will let them block in time if they're using fast rapidfire normals with good recovery such as Yosuke's. They can cancel their normals to R-action to beat yours. If players have committed to special moves that are punishable by her R-action, they can also OMC to safety and punish you.

    If your R-action gets blocked, you can cancel it to qcfx2+C, or qcbx2+A if you're in awakening. The cancel shouldn't be done right away but instead, delayed to when the opponent tries to punish you. qcfx2+C has good invincibility, but if it gets blocked, you can be heavily punished and there's no way to save yourself. qcbx2+A on the other hand, does more damage and can be made much safer. Read below on the section of how to use it.

    Guard cancel has a similar problem. It is slow and has superarmor during most of the move but is vulnerable near the end. Players can extend their normal cancel strings and then cancel to R-action if they see a guard cancel come out. To make best use of guard cancel, you want to attempt it during special move that can't be cancelled (or not as easily), though you can't just do it on a persona attack like Chie's 5DD since their character is free to move and can roll/jump/counter the guard cancel.

    In the end, against competent players that have the reactions, you will need to ensure they don't get close enough to start pressuring and if they do, you will need to make sure your blocking ability is top notch. Block, be patient, be precise in when you use your R-action and guard cancels and don't just throw them out at the first opportunity. Be aware of the meter they have because if they don't have meter to OMC, you can counter certain moves on reaction without worries (like Yu players cancelling normals to qcb+A).




    Bursting

    There's a number of things that need to be taken into consideration regarding bursting. Shadow Labrys has only 8000 health. In addition, her Titanomachia awakening super is arguably the strongest super in the game. As such, it is most preferable to burst just as your life drops low enough to be in awakening, since you can safely cast Titanomachia after a successful burst. Many players fighting against Shadow Labrys, will try to save their meter, and perhaps even their burst, to do one massive damage combo that will kill her before she can even go into awakening. In the FT10 set of Shikki(Yu) vs. Nerina(SLab), Shikki was able to do this a number of times to win rounds.

    Saving your burst for a gold burst attempt in a strong mixup situation, is another thing to consider. Against Kanji who is trying to apply grab mixups on your wakeup, this can be an option, however...if you're unable to get another burst afterwards, Kanji will hurt A LOT and will likely kill you before you can enter awakening.

    Another thing to keep in mind...Shadow Labrys has one of the more useful autocombos compared to the rest of the cast. Since you'll be often using it often, you will be gaining back burst meter from the third hit of the autocombo. As such, you will probably gain back more bursts than your opponent will.



    Neutral Game

    It's difficult to talk about the neutral game since it can be so different depending on which character you're fighting against, so this will be kept general. Check the character specific matchup sections for more details.

    jB is going to be an attack that you'll be using often. Aside from it typically being jump attack of choice for pressure, it can be used pre-emptively as a shield by vertically jumping with it. The hitbox is large and will often counterhit the opponent out of the air, where you can followup with a jA aircombo or a 5AAAA autocombo.

    2C is a very good pre-emptive anti-air that can shut down a number of character options, especially ones that use a lot of jumps or IADs. The thing to take into consideration is if the opponent has any long range, hard hitting moves (that do over 400 damage per hit), as well as moves that can slide low to the ground. Such moves, like Mitsuru charge back f+P, Yu's qcb+C and 5B, will easily take a persona card if you whiff 2C when they're on the ground.

    2B is a slow anti-air that has invincibility frames and leads to a fatal counter combo if it counterhits. It's typically the anti-air to attempt on reaction against jumps and airdashes but you need to watch out for certain jump attacks that are slow and keep the character suspended (or even elevated) in the air. These attacks, like Akihiko's jC, Kanji's jC, will likely counterhit you out of your 2B. The 2B can also be used to counter certain moves on reaction, such as Kanji's qcb+A/B airtackle and Yu's qcb+A/B overhead slash.

    For ground pokes, you will probably be using 5B. It has a fatal counter property that can be confirmed into good damage. While it has good range, there are a few characters with superior pokes that will give you big problems, such as Yu's 5B and Teddie's 5B. You'll need to out footsie them by forcing whiffs or reading them correctly with your R-action or jumping over them.

    Against characters that have trouble getting in and lack really good far reaching pokes, you can use the qcf+C laser without much risk of getting hit out of it. It forces the opponent to try to get around it (and thus occupy a certain portion of the screen that you are ready to attack). It can also lock them down, so you can start your own pressure.

    Against zoners like Yukiko, Elizabeth and some others that are deploying zoning tactics, you can use 8C to disrupt their zoning since they need to change their position to get out of the way. Depending on the character you're fighting, you might not want to use the qcf+C/D laser, because if the opponent's attack makes contact with SLab or the persona (unless it does 400 damage or less), the laser's startup will be interrupted. In that case, it might be better to use the qcf+CD EX laser, since its super armor will eat all the zoning attacks and eventually fire the laser that will disrupt their zoning and allow to gain a better positioning against them.


    Applying Pressure

    Shadow Labrys has very few strings that the opponent can't punish through the gaps with reversals like R-actions. Even then though, she has useful frame traps with a number of gaps where you can block inbetween, and if applied correctly, you can make the opponent second guess their reversals and be very afraid of your offense. Shadow Labrys loves knockdowns and you want to make sure that pretty much every reversal gets punished with the highest damage AND a knockdown to continue the vortex.

    Below is a list of some strings, how punishable they are and what they can lead to in terms of additional pressure or combos if they connect.

    5AA - the gap between this string is very small, probably just one frame. It's near impossible to react to the second A to reversal it before it connects, and after the first 5A, you can just block or jump cancel. The 5AA autocombo string keeps you close to the opponent and recovers quick, letting you block afterwards and can lead to pretty much any other string afterwards.

    2A, 5B - the gap between these two hits is much bigger than doing 5AA, so it's more punishable by "sloppy mashing". On block, it has decent recovery and if this string is started relatively close to the opponent, they are in range of another 2A (sometimes you might have to dash). After a 5B, you can optionally cancel to qcb+A(high) or 2AB(low). These also have punishable gaps and are easier to react to, so I wouldn't go with it too often.

    qcb+A in strings - the first hit of qcb+A comes out very quickly, so if the move is done close enough that the first hit can connect, it will connect as a true blockstring (not factoring instant blocks). The second hit (overhead) coming afterwards will also be a true blockstring.

    If the first hit of qcb+A whiffs, the second hit will not combo from the previous normal you did (2A, 5B, etc) and also won't be a true blockstring. That said, there are some advantages to having the first hit whiff - the first hit connecting gives the defender more time to react to the overhead on the second hit of that move. In addition, connecting only with the second hit causes massive damage while connecting with both hits does very low damage.

    Here are some attack string trees:

    5A
    ---> A(the second hit of the autocombo, input right away)
    ------> qcb+A > block and wait a split second
    ------> 2A
    ---------> see the 2A tree below
    ---> 5B
    ------> 2A (if you're close enough)
    ------> qcb+A
    ------> 2AB
    ------> block and wait
    ------> 5A
    ---------> refer to top of the tree
    ---> throw
    ---> jump cancel into block
    ---> jump cancel forward into crossup jB
    ---> jump cancel into jump mixups listed in the sections below
    ---> block and wait
    ------> 5A
    ---------> refer to top of the tree


    2A
    ---> 5A
    ------> see above for the tree starting from 5A
    ---> 5B
    ------> 2A (if you're close enough)
    ------> qcb+A
    ------> 2AB
    ------> block and wait
    ---> block and wait
    ---> run in 2A
    ---> throw


    Qcb+A and OMC Mixups

    Shadow Labrys has a very strong mixup with her qcb+A and OMC. The qcb+A is two hits, where the second hit is an overhead and there is no gap between the two hits where the opponent can reversal between (unless they instant block the first hit, possibly).

    As a defender, blocking the first hit of qcb+A gives you enough time to realize that you're blocking a qcb+A and that the second hit needs to be blocked high. So, you would change your block height to high and wait for the second hit to connect. She can OMC sometime before the second hit comes out, into a 2A immediately after. Since her 2A starts up in 7 frames, this is pretty much unreactable if you were trying to react to the OMC. The fact that people are very afraid of getting hit by that overhead because of how much damage the second hit does makes this mixup even more powerful.

    One example of putting this into practice would be doing 2A, qcb+A(1 hit), OMC just before the second hit and do 2A, 5B. The thing about using OMC and other system mechanics with Shadow Labrys is that it results in various persona attacks coming out unintentionally. In this case, hitting OMC(ABC) while not crouching results in a 5C coming out. This will combo after the 5B, leading to a further combo. If you're close to the corner, don't cancel 5B into anything else, or you won't be able to launch them up with 2B after the 5C hits and drags them along the ground.

    You can also use this mixup with her air qcb+A/B. If you OMC this move while it's hitting the opponent high, she will immediately drop to the ground. You can use this by doing mixups like j(B, qcb+A/B), then while she is hovering in the air during her air qcb+A/B(which does two hits high), you OMC it on the first hit, land immediately and 2A for a low.


    Jump Cancel Mixups

    SLab has very good crossup attacks. While her jB is typically the crossup of choice, it is generally too slow to use in certain mixups that involve using airturn, so jA is used instead. Below are some jump mixups you can use and most of them can be started from a jump cancelled 5A.

    1. 5A(optional), jump back IAD forward j2C and jB

    In this particular setup, you'll need to jump back before airdashing forward, or your jB will always whiff. It's kind of hard to do quickly and reliably so some practice will be needed. You want to input your 2C during the beginning part of your IAD, then hit jB quickly afterwards. The idea is that your jB hits as a quick crossup started from close to the opponent and the 2C hits afterwards, allowing you to continue the combo. This setup is started from neutral and doesn't require a knockdown, nor does it require you to charge up a persona attack since 2C comes out fast. An example of the setup is at 7:37 of this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O86VRh1ZoA

    It's difficult to perform because the airdash forward must be done quickly during the jump back, or she will be too high above the ground for the airdash jB to connect. Practice this a lot in the lab.


    2. 5A(optional), jump back airturn(while holding upback), airdash forward (while facing backwards) into jA

    In this particular setup, we are airdashing forward while facing backwards, making the trajectory of the airdash jA more ambiguous. The jump backwards makes the jA sometimes crossup and sometimes not, depending on the slightest change in the timing of when you start your airdash. Typically, not even the player performing this will know how it's going to land, which makes it further ambiguous.

    You want to input your airturn while holding upback. This triggers the persona's 8C attack to start. If your jA crossed up and connected, you can then combo into 2A, 5B, then the 8C will combo right afterwards. You can then followup with a qcb+B and optionally supercancel to super. Keep in mind if your jA doesn't crossup, then the 8C will whiff.


    The Titanomachia Glitch

    This glitch occurs when you use the Titanomachia super and during it, the opponent uses a super that hits your persona. This causes your persona to be in a bugged state where all of its moves come out as if they were in Titanomachia mode, which means faster startup and recovery but even better, they have full superarmor. The effect ends if Shadow Labrys performs another Titanomachia or gets hit while the bug is active.

    Once the glitch is active, you can rapidly fire off qcf+B lasers, 8C or 5C(depending on the situation) and not care about your persona getting hit out of it at all. This glitch also opens the door to new combo possibilities, though fairly impractical.
    Post edited by Emil on
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    edited July 2013
    Matchup and Tier Notes

    The tierlist for this game arguably looks something like the following:

    S+: Mitsuru, Aigis
    S: Yu, Chie, Teddie
    A: Everyone else
    B: Liz, Labrys

    Shadow Labrys, based on this tierlist, is somewhere in the lower midtier. I argue that she's actually bottom tier for some reasons that I feel are neglected or just not known.

    There are a few supers in the game that are effective reversals and are hard/impossible to punish on block, but can be punished by rolling after the flash. The player can only OMC the super to safety, if it made contact with the opponent, so the fact that you roll it makes it impossible to OMC. The problem for SLab is that if the super touches the persona (which will almost always be on screen and right behind her), the player can OMC even if SLab rolled the super. In fact, they will be able to punish her roll. Because of this, opponents have a fairly risk-free but high reward reversal super.

    When the opponent's reactions are fast enough, attack strings that get eaten by the super armor of SLab's R-action or guard cancel, slow it down so much that the opponent has more than enough time to react to this and cancel into their own R-action. This, added to the fact that she has slow normals (her fastest normal has a 7 frame startup) makes it difficult for SLab to escape pressure.


    vs. Mitsuru: 3-7
    - Mitsuru has huge advantages in this matchup - it's going to be very hard to get around her 5A and there's no reliable way around it except to block and find the opening to get away or to make risky reads with R-action.
    - Mitsuru has a number of ways to break your persona, such as doing charge back f+A/B, 5D, jD, jB, etc, so your 8C and qcf+CD EX laser will be useful in this fight because it prevents the persona from losing cards to those moves.
    - Mitsuru's R-action is a big problem. It hits all around her, countering many of your setups so you'll need to airblock a lot during the setup and punish her. If she has no meter, you can punish it with a fatal counter 5B combo but if she does have meter, you have to hit her out of the air before she lands or she'll be able to cancel immediately upon landing into super...there is not enough time to land a fatal counter in this situation, you'll have to settle for a 5A non-fatal counter or to wait out a cancelled super, roll it after the screen flash and punish with fatal counter 5B. If the R-action is blocked late on the ground, or airblocked at certain heights, SLab can't punish it while Mitsuru is airborne.
    - She can punish your qcb+A with 5A into charge b f+A. The punish doesn't do that much damage but it's one of the few characters that can punish this move.
    - If Mitsuru has 100 meter, you can't safely roll her supers because even if they hit you, they will still touch your persona, which will make the super OMCable. You also won't be able to R-action through it for the same reason.
    - Mitsuru's normals have very low hitstop, which does not slow down SLab's R-action much at all. This makes it very hard (impossible?) for the Mitsuru player to react to the R-action with her own R-action.
    - jB counters coups very well so staying in the air makes this matchup slightly more manageable...you can also airdash and punish any 5D or 2D that whiffs. However, a smart Mitsuru wouldn't be whiffing those if you're high in the air so this won't be quite so easy.


    vs. Yu: 3.5-6.5
    - This is a very hard matchup for SLab, Yu's 5B has huge range and can outrange any poke you have, including your 5B. It will also break your persona pretty easily. It's still possible to play footsies with him but you're at a disadvantage doing so.
    - Yu is able to easily pressure you up close with attack strings started with 5A. If you R-action or guard cancel during his normal string (which will probably consist of something like 5A, 2AA into whatever), he has a lot of time to react and cancel his string into R-action.
    - It's important to be able to react to his qcb+A and qcb+B raging lion overheads and to punish them with R-action or 2B before they can hit you. To punish with 2B requires you to react faster, since the initial few startup frames aren't invincible, but the reward is much higher damage from a fatal counter than landing a counterhit R-action. Keep in mind a few things - if Yu has 50SP or more, he can OMC his raging lions and block, allowing him to easily punish your R-action. Because of this, 2B is a safer and more rewarding counter.
    - To punish Yu's R-action, run underneath and combo him in the back with a 5B fatal counter. If he cancels to super when you're behind him, the super will face the wrong direction. If the super is done in the air, you can do a 2B fatal counter.
    - Yu can use qcb+A and his EX qcb+AB to escape the SLab command grab unblockable loop. They don't always work as escapes though, it really depends on the timing of the command grab. His R-action and both of his supers, whiff against this setup and can be punished after landing.
    - You can't safely roll his Cross Slash qcbx2+C/D if Yu has 100SP because it will still hit your persona, allowing Yu to OMC and punish your roll. If you do roll it and can punish him, you won't be able to counterhit him in time, so you'll have to settle for an autocombo.


    vs. Aigis: 4.5-5.5
    - This matchup I'd say is slightly in Aigis' favor, mainly because of the much larger difference in damage output and the strength of her pressure game once she gets in, with little that SLab can do about it except keep blocking or throw out risky R-actions. Aigis can easily kill in 2-3 combos so there's no room for mistakes against a good Aigis player.
    - Aigis does actually struggle to get in, as her missiles and bullets get absorbed by the persona's natural superarmor. Her main approach through the air can be shut down with SLab's 2B and 2C.
    - Keep in mind that if SLab blocks an attack, it will interrupt your persona if it's in the middle of an action. Aigis' 2B is difficult to avoid without rolling, making it hard to start any persona attacks such as lasers, in the neutral game. It's not an issue if the persona gets hit by the bullets, the issue is if SLab herself blocks or gets hit by the bullets.
    - SLab's unblockable loop can be countered by one of Aigis' supers, qcfx2+B Goddess Shield. None of the other supers or the R-action, work against it. I've heard that Orgia Mode backdash can escape it, but I haven't tested it out or looked for counters yet, just heard BananaKen talking about it in a set against Kurumster.


    vs. Teddie: 4-6
    - Teddie's baseball bat, 5B, has huge range and is going to be a major problem in this matchup. It can easily break your persona and make it hard to advance.
    - Teddie's R-action can get him out of many of your vortex setups, because of the unblockable cloud around him. You will need to improvise by implementing double jumps or airdashes higher above the ground in your setups.
    - You can punish AoA on block with 5A(CH) into a full air combo. Preferably you should go 5A(CH), 2B, jB, dj(A, qcb+B), 2C, jB, dj(A, qcb+A).
    - Shadow Labrys' persona move, the D block, can block unblockable attacks such as Teddie's Circus Bear. Run to the center of the screen and double jump while holding D to avoid it and keep the persona safe.
    - If the Teddie player is playing a lot of keepaway, particularly with item throw, use 8C to disrupt what he's doing and force him to move around. It will also keep your persona underground, preventing him from being persona broken by his 5B, items and other attacks.


    vs. Chie: 4-6
    - Chie's normals are fast and have a lot of hitstop, allowing her to chain fast normals together and if you use R-action, qcbx2+A or guard cancel, her normals will slow them down so much that she can react with cancelling into her own R-action. Against a player with strong reactions, there's just no escape once Chie gets in, so the key to surviving this matchup is to make sure she doesn't get in.
    - There is nothing SLab can do once she is knocked down and put into a vortex with Chie's 5D/2D. Not even guard cancel is a wise idea because the multiple hits of 5D and 2D slow down the animation of your guard cancel so much that the opponent can easily react to it and either R-action, roll or just stop their attack string.
    - SLab has specific, higher damaging combos that only work on Chie, including an instant kill combo. Check the combo section for some information regarding these combos.
    - Chie's 5C into dash forward can be an effective way to get in on SLab but there are some things you can do to deal with it. If you 5A immediately, it will beat her throw attempt and catch a jump if Chie tries to jump out, but she can block in time because SLab's 5A is slow. Chie can even hit you out of it by just doing her 5A after 5C though if you IB her 5C, then you can hit Chie out of her 5A. If you decide to throw after Chie's 5C, Chie will throw tech if she tries to throw. Throw will win if Chie decides to 5A or block after the dash. However, she can jC counterhit you instead...so in the end, I don't believe there is a guaranteed way to get out of this. Chie has to make a judgement on what she wants to do and so does SLab. My advice is that attempting to throw is the safer option until you see the Chie player knows that you can counter that with jC.


    vs. Yukiko: 7-3 or 6.5-3.5
    - The majority of Yukiko's attacks do less than 400 damage per hit and therefore can't penetrate the superarmor of your persona. Her B fans and A's can't do it, her C attacks do too many hits and too little damage per hit. It's mainly her flame special attacks that will break the persona. This is one of the major reasons why the matchup is so much in favor of SLab.
    - SLab can punish Yukiko through the small gap between her 5C and 2C, using her R-action. If Yukiko doesn't cancel the 5C into anything, she can still be punished by R-action, though it won't be a counterhit.


    vs. Elizabeth: 4.5-5.5
    - Both Shadow Labrys and Elizabeth have low health, but Elizabeth's damage is way higher than yours. Two combos can easily kill you, as well as one basic combo + an optimized combo ending in her AoA, OMC, command grab.
    - SLab has some issues getting around Elizabeth's 5C, especially if done near the corner but not too close to the corner. Most of the moves she can use to punish 5C can get you hit by another 5C before you recover. In addition, SLab's fastest normal has 7f startup, so it's hard to use them to hit Elizabeth's persona out of recovery. You will need to react to whether she uses the D grab or the 2C, which isn't that hard to do but will keep you pressured. Rolling out is not a good idea since Elizabeth's 2C hits from behind, so you'll have to find a good opportunity to superjump and airdash out.
    - Use 8C to disrupt her zoning, as that is generally what she'll be doing against you. 8C can also punish some of her attacks, such as Maragidyne and Ziodyne, but this is mainly against a careless Elizabeth player.
    - Once you've knocked down Elizabeth, there is practically nothing Elizabeth can do to get out of the vortex, except to block it correctly. Make sure to take advantage of every knockdown and don't let her get out.
    - If you use 5A on Elizabeth and she tries to R-action, you can recover first and do an early jB counterhit into ground combo before she recovers. Also if Elizabeth tries to R-action in between the two hits of 5AA, SLab can also recover in time and jump out. This doesn't mean that pressuring Elizabeth upclose is free, since she still has a command grab super so be wary of that.


    vs. Labrys: 6-4
    - Because Labrys has the slowest R-action of all that becomes even slower when it absorbs attacks with its superarmor, it is very easy to cancel your attack strings into your R-action, on reaction to Labrys' R-action.
    - There is usually no risk in pressuring Labrys up close, with the exception of when she has meter in awakening, since her wheel super is invincible. There is nothing Labrys can do about your vortex mixups. Her supers might be able to get her out of some, but they shouldn't hit you.



    vs. Shadow Labrys
    - The goal in this matchup is to land the first knockdown and force a vortex. She doesn't have the tools to get out of her own vortex.


    vs. Yosuke: 4-6
    - You can punish his blocked AoA with 5A(CH) into a full air combo. Preferably you should go 5A, 2B, jB, dj(A, qcb+B), 2C, jB, dj(A, qcb+A).
    - SLab's fastest normal is only 7 frames, while Yosuke's normals are not only faster but his run speed is crazy and has a number of frame traps he can use, such as dash pressure with 5A/2A and after his 3 hit 5B
    - Because Yosuke's normals also have a lot of hitstop, a player with good reaction doesn't need to care about SLab's R-action, since he can cancel his A's or any hit of his 5B into his own R-action. Prepare for a lot of blocking and reacting with throw techs, to get out if he happens to get in. He can also easily punish it on whiff and block with a 2C fatal counter into over 5K damage.
    - Yosuke is pretty free to the S command grab into jA unblockable setup (see the vortex section). He can punish it with a Garudyne super IF he predicts you to do the jA, or use Sukukaja to avoid it, but aside from that, there is nothing else he can do. He can't jump, roll, backdash or R-action. If he uses the R-action, he will be able to avoid the command grab but can be punished by landing and immediately doing a 5B into whatever combo.


    vs. Naoto: 6-4
    - Use 8C to disrupt her zoning gameplay and force her to move around.
    - Naoto can escape the unblockable command grab jump A setup by using EX qcb+AB. qcbx2+A/B can also be used to get out of the setup but you can block and punish it. Her R-action will go the wrong way, allowing you punish her from behind.
    - Naoto's kick super, qcbx2+A/B, hits from behind and can hit you out of many setups, not just the unblockable grab loop. Pay attention to when she has meter when doing your setups and be more careful when she does, as this super does a lot of damage.


    vs. Kanji: 4.5-5.5
    - SLab controls this matchup for the most part but the problem is one slight mistake can easily make you lose the match (from getting grabbed through strings or getting electrocuted). No matter how well you play this match, you can get randomed out instantly.
    - Keep your strings short and preferably don't use strings with frame gaps that can be punished with R-action or grabs.
    - It is pretty important to know how to properly punish his R-action and you don't want to give up any damage opportunities against him. Wait for his electricity to dissipate, then punish with a fatal counter 5B from a distance.
    - His R-action can't be safejumped, and will electrocute you from far away if your attack happens to make contact with him, so be careful with your jump attacks.
    - Be careful trying to anti-air his jump attacks with 2B because his jC makes him rise up into the air even when he's coming down, making your anti-air whiff. It will also fatal counter you and lead to big damage.
    - 8C can be somewhat useful to counteract Kanji's D lightning strikes.


    vs. Akihiko: 5-5
    - Like Chie, Akihiko's normals are fast and have a lot of hitstop. When he chains these attacks and they make contact with superarmored attacks like her R-action, qcbx2+A or guard cancel, they greatly slow down the attack, making it very easy for the Akihiko player to react and cancel his normals to his own R-action. Once Akihiko gets in, it will be extremely difficult to escape if the player has fast reactions.
    - SLab has many tools to zone Akihiko. Use 2C, qcf+C laser, jB and perhaps 5B to keep him out. He does have some tools to get in, like his dashing punchers, which is why you'll be using lots of preemptive jB.
    - Akihiko can punish the startup of the ground Titanomachia with Maziodyne, but the timing is strict (he can just mash out the super during the super flash cinematic to get it to come out in time). If he mistimes the punish though, your persona becomes glitched and incredibly abusable in this matchup, since you will be able to spam his qcf+C laser without much risk.
    Post edited by Emil on
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    edited July 2013
    Videos

    Combovideos

    Combo video with some technology by some Japanese player
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Bxatw32hw

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOCL4fpsvHc

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rhnmFiziXo

    The many faces of Labrys:
    www.youtube.com/watch?&v=RovobPqyUDM

    OMB combos from Bananaken:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QMBMhvaybM
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Xm0-m0-tQ

    Chie-only combos from Bananaken:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0NDs86iTmk


    Matches to Study

    Acho matches with Sorashido(the best Shadow Labrys player in the world right now):
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR7Yz_w8lSs (oldest matches, from June 10th, 2012)
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaH07p-deRE (July 22, 2012)
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNIVJZaDBV8 (July 22, 2012)
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m35ZEVYiUg (August 12, 2012, must watch)
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfSTXD1CKW4 (January 6, 2013)
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4-1r3BoiFM (April 7, 2013)
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqAt_Tpf6mM (May 5, 2013)

    Sorashido vs. Raltan(Chie) FT10
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgDnYUNURzY

    Sorashido vs. Gyakuten America(Yukiko) FT10
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LuLnidtp6M

    Sorashido vs. various players like Minori, Tetsu, etc at Urban Square:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dYGu8KWWZQ
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ju-sxhXzx4
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehE2C8YZ7d0

    FT10 sets with Nerina's Shadow Labrys, one of the better ones out there right now:

    Shikki(Yu) vs. Nerina
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDpPvKJSWhc

    YMST(the best Kanji player) vs. Nerina
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEmjA7ICoJU

    gomibakodarake(Yosuke) vs. Nerina
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CCibIWtbv8

    Nerina vs. Souhei(Elizabeth)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAVNNzonWW8

    I believe the following three videos are of Nerina playing in the arcade:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CKj5p1ZErE
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=js7pXwJ1q_8
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDp5iEj1QiY

    Acho matches with various SLab players contained:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_kWDlaD7iA
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7zQBHDe9Zk
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX_vrF2-ppE
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Q99N6pGsw

    BananaKen(the best Shadow Labrys in North America) matches at Frosty Faustings
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq53z4pGxA8
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad5kiq_7Lm4
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_mUWYzimlM

    BananaKen vs. LordKnight at UFGT8
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FS8AN9i_Nc
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT2E2hV9pFg




    Outdated Matches:

    Keep in mind these matches are really old and the technology used is outdated...I wouldn't use many of these as a good reference though there are still some things that can be learned here and there. I think Tomo's mixup with backjump into quick airdash forward jB into 2C is underused by many players (it's fairly hard to do consistently as well) but is a really strong mixup.


    SBO match with Tomo
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jkKgNne_Gk

    Leo(Akihiko) vs. Tomo FT10 Ogrelive:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tMT4KhRD4w
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsM2PkPCm1M
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O86VRh1ZoA
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_c_paUiWcw

    Reria vs. Eight(Aegis) at 3:09
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiivvkLxnUA

    Reria vs. Riinfo-su(Yu) at 2:45 and Die-chan(Mitsuru) 5:36
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-rKAp5JcRM
    Post edited by Emil on
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    reserved
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    reserved
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • nihil679nihil679 Joined: Posts: 34
    I honestly think Shadow Labrys has the strongest neutral game.

    5A -> 5B works on crouching also.
    Hard to say 2B has "good recovery."
    B after j.B should be called j.BB, it's universally accepted. It has silly uses with 1MC for mix-ups because it still has head attributes if you're hitting a grounded opponent, can't really be discredited after I've been hit by it a few times.
    8C has minor homing after the command has been input. MINOR homing. Like walk speed.
    5D blocks projectiles. Elizabeth's 236C/D isn't blocked because it's about the same lines as Asterius's 236C/D. Not true projectiles.

    You should switch the notations from QCF/QCB to 236/214. It's generally what anime fighters use and I honestly think it's cleaner, especially when you've used things like 5A and 2B, not st.A and cr.B.
    214B is also 0f on block, as opposed to 214A being -7f.
    236C/D is not only good for left/right mix-ups, but obscured high/low mix-ups because of the laser and pillar.
    214D has more recovery. Same start-up/active frames.
    [4]6D also has a small gap between where he lunges that makes it so it's not universally used over [4]6C. It doesn't really have invincibility, just that Asterius's hitbox is dramatically shrunk and has a hitbox along the ground instead. The active hitbox is also big enough that most attacks when he comes out just end up being eaten first.

    FC5B 5AA combo is pretty pointless. The range at which you can 5AA is the same as if you could FC5B 2B. If you weren't expecting the FC5B, the range at which you're hitting 5B won't be close enough for 5AA, better off going into sweep right into oki.
    There is a variant of 5AAA 2C that works midscreen. Just saying, it's not corner specific.

    The Burst-disable on Persona Break is a universal mechanic.

    5A shouldn't be dropped from neutral game. Although it means you're committing yourself a bit, it's Shadow's only jump cancelable attack. When used in tandem with Asterius attacks such as 5C, 8C, or 236C, run up 5A can be used as effectively as a neutral tool as 5B.
    236C/D/Flame of Hades is really not that optimal against zoners due to the fact that it's not really fullscreen. It can be situationally useful, but if we're talking about textbook zoners, you are better with 214C/D/Buffalo Hammer that forces them to guard low or jump, either way effectively stalling their zoning attempts.
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    214B is also 0f on block, as opposed to 214A being -7f.

    Yes, I haven't been adding frame data...need a good source for that.

    FC5B 5AA combo is pretty pointless. The range at which you can 5AA is the same as if you could FC5B 2B. If you weren't expecting the FC5B, the range at which you're hitting 5B won't be close enough for 5AA, better off going into sweep right into oki.

    You can get an unexpected one if you are doing 5A/2A into 5B and they get counterhit. I've actually used it this way to confirm into the dash up 5AA combo instead of 2B.

    There is a variant of 5AAA 2C that works midscreen. Just saying, it's not corner specific.

    I didn't know I specified it to be corner, because I actually use it midscreen on occasion. Oops.

    The Burst-disable on Persona Break is a universal mechanic.

    It's not on persona break, it's on losing a card. Pretty sure you can't burst immediately after your persona has lost a card because he takes some time to become active again.


    236C/D/Flame of Hades is really not that optimal against zoners due to the fact that it's not really fullscreen. It can be situationally useful, but if we're talking about textbook zoners, you are better with 214C/D/Buffalo Hammer that forces them to guard low or jump, either way effectively stalling their zoning attempts.

    The way I use it is cast it so that Asterius isn't positioned a full screen away from the opponent...close enough that it will reach to the end. You only need to make your advancement when he starts firing, not before.


    Anyway I merely copy and pasted everything I posted in the previous thread, still fixing it up. Also I don't like number notation for complex moves.

    Anything else? I'm still working on matchup info.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • Lord KnightLord Knight MONEY. WOMEN. POWER. Joined: Posts: 242
    you should mention that your matchup chart is probably biased and not based off the highest level play, but off of your play
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    you should mention that your matchup chart is probably biased and not based off the highest level play, but off of your play

    It's not based off of my play but what tools the characters have and what I see from top level play (with the exception of Sorashido's play, because I think he's just above his opponents, which is why he wins so much over his bad matchups).

    You said yourself that Shadow Labrys's dp is really good and is a factor when it comes to evening out some of her matchups but you never took into account that in the highest level of play, people just react to her dp with their own dp, despite me only playing like one person that was able to reliably do that on reaction. If anything, your matchups weren't taking into account the highest level of play.

    you know, another factor in why her matchups aren't that strong is that unlike other characters, she can't roll out of whiffed supers because they can OMC the super when it touches your persona. You're basically forced to block cross slash and bufudynes unless they don't have the meter to OMC.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • Lord KnightLord Knight MONEY. WOMEN. POWER. Joined: Posts: 242
    well, my description of matchups are based against playing the best players in the world...
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    well, my description of matchups are based against playing the best players in the world...

    So what are your SLab matchups, because I'm curious to hear how she doesn't have a lopsidedly hard time against Yu, Mitsuru or Yosuke. What can she do against the things I mentioned she has trouble with against them?
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • Lord KnightLord Knight MONEY. WOMEN. POWER. Joined: Posts: 242
    mitsuru is probably even. yosuke is disadvantage but it's not even close to 7-3, narukami is about that bad. kanji is in slab's favor

    maybe if you played more than one person you could get a deeper understanding of the character?

    id also like to add that hitstop plays a big part in whether you can react to slab b+d and counter with your own. vs labrys, i can always get my b+d to come out no matter what move i use, but against slab that's not the case
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    mitsuru is probably even. yosuke is disadvantage but it's not even close to 7-3, narukami is about that bad. kanji is in slab's favor

    Well I explained Kanji. She dominates the matchup, but even the slightest slip-up and he can turn everything around. She also has to work incredibly hard in the match. The matchup would be in SLab's favor if everyone played 100% perfect, but the likeliness of error should always be factored in, somewhat.

    Explain how Mitsuru is even...it just totally goes against my points listed in the chart.
    maybe if you played more than one person you could get a deeper understanding of the character?

    I didn't say I played only one person, I said I've played like one person that can reliably react to my r-action with their r-action. But in high level play, I've seen so many people do it (and on a consistent basis) that her r-action is almost a non-factor.
    id also like to add that hitstop plays a big part in whether you can react to slab b+d and counter with your own. vs labrys, i can always get my b+d to come out no matter what move i use, but against slab that's not the case

    That's you, but in the matches I see, players are consistently doing R-action against hers. Yes, there is a lot of hitstop happening but they can do it. I'm sure Mitsuru 2AA or 5AA is enough.

    For instance, this video:



    At 1:17:54 and 1:22:47 and 1:20:30(against Chie but still). It's effortless for these kinds of players.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • Lord KnightLord Knight MONEY. WOMEN. POWER. Joined: Posts: 242
    actually, because mitsuru 5a and 2a have practically 0 hitstop, it's pretty much impossible to react. for a character like chie, yu or yosuke, who have a ton of hitstop (or in chie's case, has a great gatling like 5a > 2a > 5a), it's very, very easy to do

    a lot of characters "dominate" kanji, but then can mess up and lose - that one slip up doesnt negate the character doesnt dominate every other part of the matchup

    slab can get knockdown off pretty much anything into setplay, mitsuru doesn't have that - you need to get a specific hitconfirm to get into mitsuru's mixup game. mitsuru random confirm damage (standing autocombo or AAA > 5 or 6B > 5C > a droit) doesnt top 2k without meter, air confirm (jAC > dj jC or B+D) doesn't get above 1400, and situation resets to neutral

    on top of that, slab hitconfirm into setplay dmg peaks at around 2.5k - although that is definitely lower than mitsuru dmg off specific hits (2b anti air, B or sweep fatal, 5A or 2A ch, etc), it is more than the hitconfirms she'll get most often

    mitsuru is good at breaking the persona but not at breaking the persona + covering herself, if someone uses A droit a bunch or 5D, slab can get in with jB > confirm with w/e > setplay

    also, like i said before, mitsuru has little to no hitstop on her A attacks, making it extremely hard to punish B+D on reaction - of course, there are ways around it, but it shouldnt be a surprise that A is the foundation for mitsuru's pressure

    however, mitsuru has amazing things going for her - primarily she has multiple ways to beat cmd grab, which discourages it, she can get out of some pressure that other characters can't with ib 5a or setsuna, B+D hitting behind is awesome, and getting a good hitconfirm likely means one more hit > death. in awakening, sweep > omb > mahabufudyne is probably game unless slab has been running train the whole round

    what the match ends up turning into at high level is a tense mid range game, because a poor approach by slab leads into huge damage > potential setplay > death, but a whiffed move or playing too passive can lead into mitsuru getting knocked down > setplay > death. slab wont (or at least) shouldnt burst until awakening because titanomachia is great for comebacks and mitsuru is not that good at baiting bursts without a hard bait (which isnt worth it for the most part, imo)
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    You seem to be right about Mitsuru's hitstop, I just tested it out. I just assumed all normals of the same strength have the same hitstop for all characters.

    That said, I still don't see how it's even from your description. There isn't much "setplay" going on when Mitsuru's r-action greatly limits the kind of mixups SLab can use. In almost every case, air blocking an r-action doesn't even give you enough time to punish with a 5A. The roll mixups are punishable by her R-action and are reactable. And as you said, command grab loops don't work. She's kind of stuck with forcing blockstun with early lasers to land some high/low mixups while they are blocking it.

    She also has no answer for 5A. She can't go under it (2AB doesn't really work), and her fastest normal is like 7f startup, just not enough.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • Lord KnightLord Knight MONEY. WOMEN. POWER. Joined: Posts: 242
    mitsuru cant hit slab crouching with tip of 5a. if you use laser/knuckle mixups more, the risk/return of mitsuru using B+D is greatly in slab's favor, there isn't even a point of using B+D

    slab's 5a is the same speed as mitsuru - 7f. slab can easily punish mitsuru's b+d while she is still airborne with b+d
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    slab can easily punish mitsuru's b+d while she is still airborne with b+d

    That's not true...I already tested it before but I just tested it again. The only way you can airblock and punish it with 5A when Mitsuru is still airborne is if SLab is close to the ground AND is descending. All other cases, it's too late. Also if the back of Mitsuru's R-action is blocked in the air(because she went the wrong way), there's absolutely no way to punish it.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • Lord KnightLord Knight MONEY. WOMEN. POWER. Joined: Posts: 242
    i think youre misunderstanding - im saying that slab can punish mitsuru b+d while mitsuru is still airborne and in CH state

    if you're talking about mitsuru b+d vs slab setplay, like i said, risk/reward is just not worth it, dmg trade will always be in slab favor
  • AnneIFrankAnneIFrank Joined: Posts: 428
    I don't get the logic behind the Aegis MU here. Aegis' pressure and oki are disgusting and awesome, but SLab's oki on Aegis is also extremely good. You can practically ignore her reversal on most of your set ups and make her life hell the same way she can to you. SLab is really good at controlling the neutral too. Aegis' projectiles are pretty useless, and when Aegis has to go in it's really risky with fire in the air and Lab still having options. The MU basically is SLab waiting on Aegis to try and come in, then see who gets a KD to win it.
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    I don't get the logic behind the Aegis MU here. Aegis' pressure and oki are disgusting and awesome, but SLab's oki on Aegis is also extremely good. You can practically ignore her reversal on most of your set ups and make her life hell the same way she can to you.

    Except the reward from Aegis is much bigger than Shadow Lab. That's the main reason I have it in Aegis' favor. Also 2B is a problem because if SLab blocks it, then her persona is interrupted if it's in the middle of an attack...it's hard to get certain persona attacks out in the neutral situation, like lasers.

    Gatling guns and missiles aren't an issue against SLab though, I agree.

    I haven't really updated the matchups section yet.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • wiredgodwiredgod Joined: Posts: 461
    If I'm not mistaken there's more Sorashido here. There's also an SLab mirror match:

    Starts at 2:08
    PSN: wiredgod
    BB: Carl
    P4A: Teddie / Shadow Labrys
    Skullgirls: Peacock / PW / Filia
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    Yes that's him...there's also a few uploaded ft10 sets with him that I forgot to add:

    Sorashido vs. Raltan


    Sorashido vs. Gyakuten America
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    So Bananaken overcomes this terribly one sided matchup against LordKnight's Mitsuru and wins UFGT.



    Somewhere between the 4-5 hour mark (can't check exact times now because my bandwith is running low). They played in winners final and grand finals.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • wiredgodwiredgod Joined: Posts: 461
    edited May 2013
    SLab had a really great finals at UFGT. People don't know this matchup. He was really effective in doing crossup 8C to knockdown the opponent, and people seem to eventually fall prey to his Massive Slaughter setup.

    It wasn't on stream, but he played Kurumster (Aigis) in pools, and I couldn't believe some of the mixups he blocked. His wins were largely due to strong fundamentals.
    Post edited by wiredgod on
    PSN: wiredgod
    BB: Carl
    P4A: Teddie / Shadow Labrys
    Skullgirls: Peacock / PW / Filia
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    I forgot to add these videos before...some FT10 sets between Nerina (a very good Japanese Shadow Labrys) and various players

    Shikki(Yu) vs. Nerina


    YMST(the best Kanji player) vs. Nerina


    gomibakodarake(Yosuke) vs. Nerina


    Nerina vs. Souhei(Elizabeth)


    watching the YMST set is very disheartening...Nerina basically loses 10-0, even though he played the matches very well. This pretty much confirms my thoughts on why the matchup is in Kanji's favor. Even though Nerina was able to dominate the neutral game for about 90% of the match, the other 10% that Kanji was dominating, pretty much outweighed everything Nerina had done in the round.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    edited June 2013
    Alright I made some updates to various sections of the data compilation, as well as linked some additional videos. Also wanted to mention that Tomo is confirmed for Evo...now the thing is he was considered one of the best Shadow Lab players but this was a long time ago. The SLab tech has advanced so much since then and I haven't seen any remotely recent videos of Tomo...based on his skill from previous matches, I think he wouldn't do well today, so I'm wondering if anyone's stumbled upon any new Tomo videos.

    Edit: And to respond to Lord Knight's post from way back about Kanji vs. SLab being in SLab's favor. The Japanese score it 6-4 Kanji, and the YMST vs. Nerina set was a complete blowup (score-wise) despite Nerina playing very well...it's just not in her favor, even though she dominates the neutral game. YMST also beats Sorashido, the best SLab player.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    edited July 2013
    New matches with Sorashido, the best Shadow Labrys against various players including Minori and Tetsu:





    Videos haven't been uploaded yet but Bananaken wasn't able to beat Lordknight this time at CEO 2013...I noticed there were too many r-actions attempted by Bananaken and in the long run it just didn't benefit him. Unfortunately I think this is like the only way to really get out of Mitsuru pressure once she is able to start it on you, but the risk/reward is not in SLab's favor.

    Also I still feel LordKnight does not know the matchup, in the sense that there were many many instances where Bananaken would just go with the full attack strings that have multiple reactable gaps where Mitsuru can r-action, but Lordknight just blocked and blocked. He understands how to block the pressure but in all those situations you could be R-actioning on reaction instead. I don't actually remember one instance where Bananaken did some string into 5B and then did not cancel 5B into something reactably punishable (like qcb+A).
    Post edited by Emil on
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
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