Why AAA companies doesn't hire Anime Studios to do HD Sprites?

cristianceron1989cristianceron1989 Joined: Posts: 9
An anime 30 minutes chapter cost 150.000 USD to do.
I don't think a FG needs more 2D sprites than that.
I know pixel art is pointless in 1080p and new ones should go the Skullgirls way.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2011/10/30-1/how-much-does-one-episode-of-anime-cost-to-make
Original work - 50,000 yen ($660)
Script - 200,000 yen ($2,640)
Episode Direction - 500,000 yen ($6,600)
Production - 2 million yen ($26,402)
Key Animation Supervision - 250,000 yen ($3,300)
Key Animation - 1.5 million yen ($19,801)
In-betweening - 1.1 million yen ($14,521)
Finishing - 1.2 million yen ($15,841)
Art (backgrounds) - 1.2 million yen ($15,841)
Photography - 700,000 yen ($9,240)
Sound - 1.2 million yen ($15,841)
Materials - 400,000 yen ($5,280)
Editing - 200,000 yen ($2,640)
Printing - 500,000 yen ($6,600)
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Comments

  • YinYin fun fun fun Joined: Posts: 3,396
    You forget how crazy little RAM current consoles have (they are like what, 7 years old?). HD 2D takes a lot of space, more than 3D games. Skullgirls had to stream the frames from the harddrive, resulting in some graphical bugs on certain models, mostly on 360 I believe (the famous "my character looked like hitboxes for a while" bug).
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  • DarkBlade77DarkBlade77 Joined: Posts: 203
    To be fair, SG had to do that because it was a team game with tags/DHCs/etc. When a match is just 2 characters, I don't think they stream the assets during gameplay.

    And in general, this should be easily feasible next-gen since both Sony and Microsoft's offerings both appear to have at least 2GB of RAM on board; even discounting whatever amount is going to be reserved for other applications, it'll be several times what's available to either console now.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 1,270
    Pixel art looks much better. SG style animation is much cheaper to make though, yeah.
  • Whitney's MiltankWhitney's Miltank Got Miltank? Joined: Posts: 32
    I'm not too familiar with the world of 2D art and Japanese animation, but it seems like TV animation and sprite animation are wildly different worlds. Anime studios are using different techniques from video game studios to create their works. For one, anime studios usually air each frame three times to save money.
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  • ZinacZinac Ocha shinai? Joined: Posts: 805
    You need to take into account the number of man hours to make a frame of animation in a 2D fighting game. It's WAY higher than a television program, because the expectation for consistency is much greater.
  • Axl_m4sterAxl_m4ster This is how I look like, don't make fun Joined: Posts: 2,423
    You forget how crazy little RAM current consoles have (they are like what, 7 years old?). HD 2D takes a lot of space, more than 3D games. Skullgirls had to stream the frames from the harddrive, resulting in some graphical bugs on certain models, mostly on 360 I believe (the famous "my character looked like hitboxes for a while" bug).
    can someone explain in detail why hd sprites take up more memory than 3D polygons?
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  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭✭
    with a 3d model, your initial set is expensive in terms of console resources (RAM) but everything that model will do is extremely cheap (all their animations are just instructions)

    with a sprite, each frame is it's own image to load. so an idle animation is like loading lets say 30 images of the same thing, although they look very similar it doesn't matter. then you have to do that for each other animation. it adds up very quickly.
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  • MoeMintsMoeMints Never looks up guides for the first week Joined: Posts: 15
    Besides the fact even a lot of run of the mill PCs aren't optimal for HD2D, and Skullgirls had problems streaming itself...
    There's too many variables like the studio's transition to video game animation, the budget its having, and what the direction of the game is.

    Skullgirls honestly looked real off at times. You had an entire neighborhood at the fight at times but just mildly spectating the fight. There's stuff like them off perspective, some girl only two feet away being watercolored while the girls in front of her have bold cel shading. That Disney-esque mom with a live action rabbit. The city roadway at night where there's a bunch of OCs that just twitch over and over despite getting the same detail as the main cast, which makes the depth of field really weird.
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  • Sephiroth73003Sephiroth73003 Joined: Posts: 2,061 ✭✭
    with a 3d model, your initial set is expensive in terms of console resources (RAM) but everything that model will do is extremely cheap (all their animations are just instructions)

    with a sprite, each frame is it's own image to load. so an idle animation is like loading lets say 30 images of the same thing, although they look very similar it doesn't matter. then you have to do that for each other animation. it adds up very quickly.

    To be fair this isn't 100% true you recycle animations within moves like Hurricane Kick is only like 5-6 unique frames. Idle animations are almost ALWAYS the most expensive animation because it's so slow and tends to have a lot of unique frames but even then you normally have the character return to his original animation so your looking at a MAX of 30 or so but actual number is probably around 15-25. I mean a fireball even though it's 40 something frames is only 8-10 frames of actual animation in 3S.

    Most moves don't have all unique frames for any moves. It has a lot to do with once the move is out you want it to look like that move long enough people know what's going on. That's another reason hit stop is used so people know what they blocked or got hit with. Skullgirls has a lot of animation and never seen their spritesheets o

    Source: I wrote a 2D fighting game engine and tested it by animating 3S ryu sprites.

    TV sprites use a LOT of cheater techniques to reuse assets. They have a computer program that does all the voice matching for them. Most rarely show legs which would have to be redrawn simply if they took a step onto some stairs. Instead they draw the character from the waist up and simply move him up and down like a paper puppet to simulate he is walking. They tend to have a lot of still moments where nothing is going on. Action scenes are more expensive though for sure.

    A move with 12 unique frames for a game will probably cost you around $150 to make. Now you need 400 frames or so for a character so your looking at probably $3000-4500 per character. You can get a Full HD 3D model, high-res game model, and have it textured and rigged for $500-1000 depending on what your making. Animation won't add more then a grand or so if you have a mo-cap setup and most of your movements are fairly realistic. If your move is highly unrealistic it will need to be key framed and it will be more expensive to do the move then mo-cap but less then the 2D sprite move. So if you already have a Mo-cap setup animation is PISS easy so 3D models are cheaper cost and resource wise. That and the fact people think 3D looks better makes it a no-contest for big companies on which to choose. The inital entry to 3D is very expensive and most people don't have experience with it so that's the reason Indy games go with 2D but they typically don't pay their artists much because they are doing it for profit shares and maybe a small upfront cost for each spritesheet unless you have a real publisher or take on some upfront debt since making a high quality game is an expensive effort that gets more expensive the more help you need (netcode, marketing, blah blah blah).
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  • scytheavatarscytheavatar Joined: Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭
    http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/oct/12/arcsys-characters-start-3d-models-and-then-2d-images-are-drawn-wont-add-gauges-without-removing-others/
    Can you talk about your animation process? SNK does 3D models that they draw over, but Skullgirls does it all hand-drawn.

    TI: We work the first way, with 3D -- well, first we come up with concepts for each of the moves the characters would be capable of, then we build those motions based off of that with 3D models. These motions get converted back to 2D, and then we engage in pixel-level cleanup and fixing to come up with what you see in the game.

    Do you think that's faster or more efficient than the old hand-drawing type of way?

    TI: I think there are cases where doing it all hand-drawn might wind up being faster in the end. Using 3D models, however, makes it easier to maintain an even visual balance across every move from every character. The backgrounds are 3D, too, and thus it's important the characters seem natural against those backdrops -- something that the 3D model approach also helps with. So it may take more time, but I think it's still a more efficient approach to getting better results.

    This is the modern way of doing HD sprites, the Skullgirls way of hand-drawing everything is outdated and subpar compared to the 3D -> 2D technique.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 1,270
    It's not the modern way of doing them, it's just another way of doing them. In ArcSys case it was a waste of time because BlazBlue doesn't look much better than GG in terms of consistency/accuracy (which is what tracing from 3D really helps with).
  • petran79petran79 Here comes an old challenger Joined: Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭
    comparing 2d animation in video games and anime is not recommended in this case.

    Cheap Japanese televised animation has already an established tradition. But it started with Hanna Barbera actually.
    While Japanese AAA video games moved already to 3D a long time ago. It also has to do with the fact that talented Japanese animators prefer the video games over the animation industry due to better pay and working conditions.

    besides, Blazblue and GG are more famous for their style rather than rich animation.
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  • Sephiroth73003Sephiroth73003 Joined: Posts: 2,061 ✭✭
    http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/oct/12/arcsys-characters-start-3d-models-and-then-2d-images-are-drawn-wont-add-gauges-without-removing-others/



    This is the modern way of doing HD sprites, the Skullgirls way of hand-drawing everything is outdated and subpar compared to the 3D -> 2D technique.

    Hm, that actually sounds pretty good. Would reduce the time and QC commitment for sure. Any idea of the detail involved? Seems like a HD model is overkill since fine detailed doesn't appear to normally translate into the drawings so by HD I assume HD just simply means high polygon. Interesting thing is you could map a normal map to the sprites and do dynamic lighting in 2D .... which is pretty cool.
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  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,647 ✭✭✭✭
    Hm, that actually sounds pretty good. Would reduce the time and QC commitment for sure. Any idea of the detail involved? Seems like a HD model is overkill since fine detailed doesn't appear to normally translate into the drawings so by HD I assume HD just simply means high polygon. Interesting thing is you could map a normal map to the sprites and do dynamic lighting in 2D .... which is pretty cool.
    Luckily for you SNK themselves did a rundown of how they made their sprites.

    http://kofaniv.snkplaymore.co.jp/english/info/15th_anniv/2d_dot/creation/index.php

    Basically, the 3D models are SUPER barebones basic models that they just use for basic shape and form. They add shading and details when converting to 2D to get that super detailed look.
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  • DarkBlade77DarkBlade77 Joined: Posts: 203
    http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/oct/12/arcsys-characters-start-3d-models-and-then-2d-images-are-drawn-wont-add-gauges-without-removing-others/

    This is the modern way of doing HD sprites, the Skullgirls way of hand-drawing everything is outdated and subpar compared to the 3D -> 2D technique.

    Apples and oranges. SG's method (some pros/cons)
    • sprites, but not true pixel art
    • costs several times less per-character to create than any current 3d or 2d FG by a major publisher
    • uses base sprites that are twice the resolution of native for finer/softer edges
    • ^ limits the max level of detail that can be conveyed at native res(though nobody else has gotten close to making this look like a weakness and probably won't unless SNKP starts making 720p sprites at the same level of quality as their upscaled 480p)
    SG also use 3D model bases for animating specific portions i.e. Painwheel's blade, so it isn't even like the methods are completely exclusive to each other. I would bet money that if ASW knew the tech could be applied this way 10 years ago, they would have gladly adopted it over what they're currently doing because it boosts the two weakest things about their sprite offerings; the detail(for something at 720p native, they are ass compared to something like KOF which does it right) and the feasibility of budgeting more inbetween frames per animation(since SG's process is cheaper).
  • d3vd3v #MAXCPM Fiber Override Joined: Posts: 24,472 mod
    Apples and oranges. SG's method (some pros/cons)
    • sprites, but not true pixel art
    • costs several times less per-character to create than any current 3d or 2d FG by a major publisher
    • uses base sprites that are twice the resolution of native for finer/softer edges
    • ^ limits the max level of detail that can be conveyed at native res(though nobody else has gotten close to making this look like a weakness and probably won't unless SNKP starts making 720p sprites at the same level of quality as their upscaled 480p)
    SG also use 3D model bases for animating specific portions i.e. Painwheel's blade, so it isn't even like the methods are completely exclusive to each other. I would bet money that if ASW knew the tech could be applied this way 10 years ago, they would have gladly adopted it over what they're currently doing because it boosts the two weakest things about their sprite offerings; the detail(for something at 720p native, they are ass compared to something like KOF which does it right) and the feasibility of budgeting more inbetween frames per animation(since SG's process is cheaper).

    SG also uses "bump maps" and shading layers to allow for real time lighting.
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  • bchan009bchan009 Joined: Posts: 554 ✭✭
    It's an interesting idea, but you have to realize it's inefficient and costly to have an outside company do it.

    Yes, an animation studio has a team of trained animators, but in terms of logistics it'd be annoying. If moves need to be tweaked, new characters are to be added, or animation assets have to be changed in any way, you have to go back to the company and have them redo it. This not only takes more time, but is expensive, and there's no telling how much back and forth you have to do before everything is done the way you want.

    The other problem is that the animation studio already has tons of its OWN projects to do. In order for Capcom or SNK to convince them to drop what they're doing and make game art, they'd have to pay those studios a ton of money. Probably more money than a fighting game company wants to pay.

    Having an in-house team is of course the better option because everything is faster, streamlined, and internally done. But these days Capcom and SNK don't really have 2D staff, so that's why they do 3D now.

    Could Pixar handle cutscenes for Uncharted? Sure they could. But is Naughty Dog going to pay mega bucks to Pixar for them to do it? Of course not - they'd do it themselves. Having an animation studio do game sprites is the same thing.
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  • HecatomHecatom (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 13,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's not the modern way of doing them, it's just another way of doing them. In ArcSys case it was a waste of time because BlazBlue doesn't look much better than GG in terms of consistency/accuracy (which is what tracing from 3D really helps with).
    The fuck are you talking about, there are inconsistencies on some animations of GG because none of their sprites are done 3d -> 2d
    Just look at Testament's Badlans or Order Sol's 6HS, or Chipp 2P
    BB has better accuracy and consistency across the board because it use the 3d->2d the same way that KOFXIII does
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  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 1,270
    The fuck are you talking about

    jn201_06_zps745cb55d.png
    no032_07_zps8e3ff5bd.png no202_06_zps2f4b785b.png

    They look marginally the same as ArcSys's usual mediocrity to me. They should have saved their time and money.
  • bchan009bchan009 Joined: Posts: 554 ✭✭
    A lot of animation looks silly if you only look at certain frames. In motion you don't really notice or see most defects.
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  • Master ChibiMaster Chibi .: Dynamites! :. Joined: Posts: 14,934 mod
    Apples and oranges. SG's method (some pros/cons)
    • sprites, but not true pixel art
    • costs several times less per-character to create than any current 3d or 2d FG by a major publisher
    • uses base sprites that are twice the resolution of native for finer/softer edges
    • ^ limits the max level of detail that can be conveyed at native res(though nobody else has gotten close to making this look like a weakness and probably won't unless SNKP starts making 720p sprites at the same level of quality as their upscaled 480p)
    SG also use 3D model bases for animating specific portions i.e. Painwheel's blade, so it isn't even like the methods are completely exclusive to each other. I would bet money that if ASW knew the tech could be applied this way 10 years ago, they would have gladly adopted it over what they're currently doing because it boosts the two weakest things about their sprite offerings; the detail(for something at 720p native, they are ass compared to something like KOF which does it right) and the feasibility of budgeting more inbetween frames per animation(since SG's process is cheaper).


    Can you tell me why certain projectile effects (fire and the like) in KoF 13 still have thick ugly black outlines on them? Did they not take these out during the process? It reminds me of gunk leftover when trying to make an image transparent.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 1,270
    bchan009:

    Not in KOF XIII. ArcSys's stuff looks sloppy in almost every single frame. Tracing from 3D didn't help them much.
  • DaRabidDuckieDaRabidDuckie Happiest. Duck. Ever. Joined: Posts: 9,741 mod
    Can you tell me why certain projectile effects (fire and the like) in KoF 13 still have thick ugly black outlines on them? Did they not take these out during the process? It reminds me of gunk leftover when trying to make an image transparent.
    It's by design. They do that to give it a look more reminiscent of SNK games. A LOT of SNK games have fire and explosions that look like that, especially Metal Slug. I personally find it to be very warm and nostalgic.
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  • DarkBlade77DarkBlade77 Joined: Posts: 203
    ^ Gotta agree with this; I can't think of any other reason except that it is intentional.
  • KayameKayame REPENT!BOOM! Joined: Posts: 549
    These animes are usually low quality animations and lots of them if you pause you'll see how ugly they are.
    And about 3d looking better than 2D is freaking nuts Darkstalkers games have a much better look than SSFIV by a lot and they age better than 3D.
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  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot of animation looks silly if you only look at certain frames. In motion you don't really notice or see most defects.
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  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,386 ✭✭
    These animes are usually low quality animations and lots of them if you pause you'll see how ugly they are.

    Sometimes pausing isn't even necessary:

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  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭✭
    hd sprites are overrated. just one look at sf2t hd remix and you'll know this. just improve the animation by adding more frames. thats it.
  • Sephiroth73003Sephiroth73003 Joined: Posts: 2,061 ✭✭
    These animes are usually low quality animations and lots of them if you pause you'll see how ugly they are.
    And about 3d looking better than 2D is freaking nuts Darkstalkers games have a much better look than SSFIV by a lot and they age better than 3D.
    KofXIII sprites are gorgeous

    But the majority of your sales are going to be in the beginning and if you release modern 3D (for your time) most people are going to believe the 3D looks better assuming your ability to write shaders and coordinate level / character design isn't shit. But those same risks are associated with 2D and 2D is typically used to plan layouts and whatnot for 3D. Not to mention any rerelease you probably have a super hi-def ZBrush model you derived the game model from that is so hi-def it could be used in movies (though it might have to be rerigged).

    Personally i think certain characters like Mai don't look very good in KOF XIII a bit pixelly but the majority look beautiful. I think it looks better than Skullgirls. Skullgirls is cleaner but I think KOF XIII went for a more stylized look on purpose and those background !
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  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 1,270
    hd sprites are overrated. just one look at sf2t hd remix and you'll know this. just improve the animation by adding more frames. thats it.

    So they are overrated because a studio of non-animators did an awful job with a game that originally had very few frames of animation?
  • DrakillaDrakilla Joined: Posts: 140
    Hmm, anime shows themselves aren't particularly known for great animation. The epic movies such as Akira and STudio Ghibli films are another thing. I personally didn't find SkullGirls visually appealing once I got to play it myself, is very herky jerky. King of fighters XIII is hands down the best looking 2d fighter out there, SNK really deserved that spot after all the years put into their efforts. Darkstalkers has great animation but the game moves so fast you can never really appreciate it. Street fighter 3 is still king.
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭✭
    So they are overrated because a studio of non-animators did an awful job with a game that originally had very few frames of animation?

    no, the game didnt need hd sprites in the first place. it actually looked worse with the hd sprites and secondly Udon arent even good artists.
  • JigsawJigsaw Joined: Posts: 104
    So what you meant to say was "UDON are overrated". Of course ST didn't NEED high resolution sprites, it's an old game and wasn't designed around being redrawn in a higher resolution 15 years after release. I'm completely with you on HDR looking like shit, but that doesn't mean that the idea of high-resolution 2D sprites is somehow without merit.

    As for the opaque effects in KOF13, it's definitely intentional. Making them translucent is literally as easy as flipping a switch, and as mentioned plenty of the effects are. Personally I'm guessing they chose to keep fire effects opaque so they could have dark smoke. Using additive blending (the method primarly used to create translucent effects in games like KOF13, CVS2, GG, et al) dark colours become transparent while bright colours become opaque, so it's impossible to do decent effects with dark colours - dark smoke, for instance. It's certainly possible using other methods (alpha blending, layered sprites with different degrees of translucency, etc), but it would be more resource heavy.
  • The Tall NerdThe Tall Nerd Joined: Posts: 398
    These animes are usually low quality animations and lots of them if you pause you'll see how ugly they are.
    And about 3d looking better than 2D is freaking nuts Darkstalkers games have a much better look than SSFIV by a lot and they age better than 3D.
    KofXIII sprites are gorgeous

    not really
    street fighter 4 is a stylized game, its gonna age a well
    unlike tekken or virtua fighter, you ever play old tekken it looks like ass.
    you ever play something like legend of zelda winwaker now, its looks fantastic, because its cartoony and stylzed
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 1,270
    no, the game didnt need hd sprites in the first place. it actually looked worse with the hd sprites and secondly Udon arent even good artists.

    The problem isn't they made HD sprites for it, it's that they gave the work to lousy artists and non-animators. They didn't add in-betweens and instead of fixing the anatomy mistakes they added even more, so everything ended up being a mess. But, imagine if instead of Udon someone competent made the sprites.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,405 ✭✭✭
    anatomy mistakes
    And that should settle the topic. Most anime artists don't know jack shit of anatomy.
  • petran79petran79 Here comes an old challenger Joined: Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭
    And that should settle the topic. Most anime artists don't know jack shit of anatomy.

    most of them usually live with their parents and their anime collections, drawing deformed anime suited to their own taste. they are satisfied with low pay by studios. also very unlikely for them to have seen a real girl....
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  • bchan009bchan009 Joined: Posts: 554 ✭✭
    most of them usually live with their parents and their anime collections, drawing deformed anime suited to their own taste. they are satisfied with low pay by studios. also very unlikely for them to have seen a real girl....

    Looks like you're seriously confusing people who make animation in their free time and people who do it for a living...

    There are lots of people who animate for a living, working for Korean studios. The quality and consistency of the animation is directly proportional to the amount of money being put into a project. Also, US and Japanese cartoons have been for the most part animated and outsourced to Korea since the 90s.

    I don't know what the hell you're talking about with the living with parents thing. Not everyone who animates is some kind of closeted loser, and if you work for a studio, you draw what THEY tell you to.
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  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭✭
    The problem isn't they made HD sprites for it, it's that they gave the work to lousy artists and non-animators. They didn't add in-betweens and instead of fixing the anatomy mistakes they added even more, so everything ended up being a mess. But, imagine if instead of Udon someone competent made the sprites.

    there werent any anatomy mistakes to fix in the original ST. i dont get what you mean by "inbetweens" are you talking about the animation?
    even if someone competent remade the sprites it wouldnt look better than the original, but would look far better than the mess udon made.

    like i said earlier, its the animation that matters not the sprites.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,405 ✭✭✭
    there werent any anatomy mistakes to fix in the original ST. i dont get what you mean by "inbetweens" are you talking about the animation?
    even if someone competent remade the sprites it wouldnt look better than the original, but would look far better than the mess udon made.

    like i said earlier, its the animation that matters not the sprites.
    You got all wrong. The Udon drawings had anatomy mistakes, that is, muscles or bones where they shouldn't be. The sprites could very well be better than the original. Just imagine if masters such as Earl Norem were hired to make them. There are several French, Italian, and American masters who could get it done and turn STHD into a masterpiece.
    The quality and consistency of the animation is directly proportional to the amount of money being put into a project.
    If you hire the proper artists. The vast majority of Eastern artists lack the talent, experience and proper training to create high-quality comic-style animations.
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭✭
    *sigh* i didnt say Udon didnt make anatomy mistakes. you're quoting me and replying to comments i havent made.

    of course it had anatomy mistakes. shit artists make basic anatomy mistakes and thats why STHD was a mess.
  • bchan009bchan009 Joined: Posts: 554 ✭✭
    If you hire the proper artists. The vast majority of Eastern artists lack the talent, experience and proper training to create high-quality comic-style animations.

    This is a sweeping generalisation and borderline ignorant. There are plenty of artists in Asia who can do fine art and not just comic art. They're more than capable of doing a realistic still-life or an anatomical study. To claim only people in the west know how to draw just because you don't like the "popular" style is ridiculous.

    Alice: Nightmare Returns is an American game with so-so gameplay but great art direction. Take a look at the concept art some day. It's gorgeous and uses all sorts of different mixed media. The team who did it is also almost entirely Chinese. There's not an anime-styled anything to be found anywhere.

    I might as well say that Americans can't draw because I'm not a fan of the way Jim Lee draws Batman. It's a ridiculous and ignorant statement. There are just as many hack artists in the west as there are in the east, but no one goes on deviantart, looks at these people, and claims "NO ONE IN THE WEST CAN MAKE HIGH QUALITY ART".

    UDON, whose art you hate so much, is all American by the way.

    Just because a person draws in a style that you may not like, it doesn't mean they don't know how to draw. Good artists draw in a style they like - it doesn't mean they can't do anything else. Picasso is one of the greatest artists of th 20th century, yet his famous works are surrealist stuff that aren't all that realistic. Do people go around saying "OMG HE CAN'T DRAW?". He can, but he just chooses to draw people with messed up faces.

    Claiming Asia is a sea of lousy artists is ridiculous.
    Check out my work!

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  • JigsawJigsaw Joined: Posts: 104
    UDON are Canadian, actually, but same difference. Regardless, "Eastern artists are untalented" is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 1,270
    there werent any anatomy mistakes to fix in the original ST. i dont get what you mean by "inbetweens" are you talking about the animation?
    even if someone competent remade the sprites it wouldnt look better than the original, but would look far better than the mess udon made.

    like i said earlier, its the animation that matters not the sprites.

    There were tons of mistakes in the original sprites. In HD they stand out a lot more. With UDON adding extra ones, you get HDR.

    By in-betweens I mean adding frames of animation besides the key ones. They could have added frames (and modify existing ones) to improve the animation without modifying the gameplay. But the project was so under budgeted that they even had to downgrade the color palette. If the work was done by a talented team of experienced sprite artists with a decent budget the game could have looked great. And both the animation and the resolution matter.

    By the way, I can't back oldschool in this one. There are hundreds of talented Asian artists. (also Picasso sucks)
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I prefer a lot of the UDON artists over Artgerm.
    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. http://www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum/ [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,405 ✭✭✭
    This is a sweeping generalisation and borderline ignorant. There are plenty of artists in Asia who can do fine art and not just comic art.
    Show me 5 good Japanese artists who have done anything decent in western-style comics, besides Akiman.
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How is comparing a video game concept artist to a comic artist a valid argument?

    Edit:
    A lot of the artwork you see in MSH and Cota, especially the win quote screens was traced from artwork from the comics themselves.
    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. http://www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum/ [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games
  • bchan009bchan009 Joined: Posts: 554 ✭✭
    Show me 5 good Japanese artists who have done anything decent in western-style comics, besides Akiman.

    Of course most don't do western-style comics. How come Joe Madureira hasn't drawn any manga? Your question is pointless.

    You have a problem where you think what style people draw with == skill.

    According to you, the people who animate Adventure Time can't draw for shit because Adventure Time is drawn with a simple style. Your blind disdain for Asians is ridiculous.

    483efe45tw1dftybbo70cj.jpg

    comickers02.jpg

    507072.jpg

    The coloring job on some of these painted images is smoother and more detailed than the vast majority of mainstream American comics, many of which use SIMPLE, STYLIZED, ARTWORK. ::gasp!:: You mean Americans don't draw everything in a realistic style?! D:
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  • NickRocksNickRocks On the west side I'm screaming FUCK KD Joined: Posts: 14,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How hard would it be for them to take pre-existing sprites of Marvel characters and just HD-ify them? (im really asking)
  • NickRocksNickRocks On the west side I'm screaming FUCK KD Joined: Posts: 14,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How is comparing a video game concept artist to a comic artist a valid argument?

    Edit:
    A lot of the artwork you see in MSH and Cota, especially the win quote screens was traced from artwork from the comics themselves.
    thats not what the mvc artbook says :(
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