2013 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. First Page Tumblr: Anti MorriDoom/AV Chart, Meter Monsters

DevilJin 01

Up and running with the sticky. Thx Preppy/Diek. :china:

Firstly feel free to talk about anything regarding hard results based tiers or just competitive play between the characters in general based on potential/theory. That's essentially how we're going to have to make the final tier list any way since more than half the cast still isn't used regularly competitively. We most likely won't be able to unlock all the characters have to offer for a long time. Which means if you have something to input that could shed insight to the future potential of a character that doesn't wear sunglasses and/or a trenchcoat...feel free.

This thread is made to replace the old tier thread with a title that better suggests what we are doing in this thread. One which is namely to agree on a hard tier list. For now I will just list the tier lists of some of the more respected players that post here and then the hard list will go up later.

Second is embrace discussing what has and what possibly can happen based on the potential of each of the characters. Some characters are obvious higher tier based on results (Wesker, Wolvie), others are doing better with results than the actual potential of the character (Iron Fist), others are still dominating assists (Akuma) etc.

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Chrisis' Current 2013 Tier List

MORE INFORMATION >>>>> http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/7898729/#Comment_7898729

How to read tier chart
VERTICALLY = The strength of the character as far as...

1.Their ability to convert things off normals, normal ground throws, normal air throws and projectiles into combos in ratio to...

2. How many ways they can keep you from putting them in a combo once they get going. Which can be some or all of things including abuse of OS normal ground/air throws that can convert into full combos, normals with disjointed hit boxes, projectiles that flood up the screen, the ability to activate moves that nullify hit stun for the character (Sent/Hulk super armor, Viper's hyper armor focus) and invincible/projectile invincible reversals, normals, specials or supers

3. How little meter/resource is required for the first two to happen in ratio to how much more more difficult it gets for the opponent to win once said character attains a lot of meter.

4. The lack of "special requirements" needed to enact 95 percent or more of the strength of the character. If the character is on the screen with an assist or 2 + a meter should be all that is needed for the opponent to instantly be in a trouble position against the character

5. The amount and variety of angles of safe movement options the character has. This includes their ability to safely move towards and away from the opponent on the ground AND more importantly...towards and away from the opponent IN THE AIR. Some characters like Dante and Vergil get these improved further when they activate specific supers).

Overall of how many ways they can convert off attacks or throws, the strength of their normals and/or projectiles for occupying space or covering their offense, the speed and ability to transition in multiple directions during their ground and aerial movement safely, and the amount of reversal or flood clearance type moves they have for reversing the oppressive offensive/zoning based options. All while using one meter or less. Which then the character should only get more oppressive with more meters attached. Plus the lack of special requirements needed to make their neutral powerful.

HORIZONTALLY = The amount the character can potentially help your other members of your team by adding that character to the team. Also generally how well their assists, TAC combos and supers augment the power of the vertical portion of the chart.

charlie88

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nigga dashing approves of this

LegendaryDJ

So to start things off, I want to say that I have the two best teams in the game. Once people get past the current meta, everyone will be rocking either my Thor (Smash)/Dormammu (Dark Hole)/Doom (Beam) and my Nova (Rush)/Doom (Beam)/Ammy (Cold Star). It's just a matter of time. Plasma Beam is the future.

Nooneyouknow

The tier thread is dead? Long live the tier thread.

-AEON-

Version 3 - we livin'

AceKillah

Oh god not another.

DevilJin 01

AceKillah, post: 7909803, member: 28407 wrote:

Oh god not another.

As long as there is OTT...there will be this. Marvel always harvests the slop.

DevilJin 01

Visual now on first page.


MORE INFORMATION >>>>> http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph...-read-first-page.162017/page-495#post-7898729



Now discuss as normal. Results monsters can monster etc.

phantasy

viper is overrated, strange is overrated, thor is mid tier, spiderman sucks

sjohnst2

At my locals the best players win with Nova, Haggar, Chris, Firebrand, and Dog.
Everyone who tricked me into playing Magneto and Zero and Dante : I feel abused and lied to.

:)

And Viper isn't on the radar. She must be low tier. Also Doom DaBes because you can't see his missiles.

The Duke

How does Magneto, a fair character, compete against the likes of say Doom and Zero?

DevilJin 01

The Duke, post: 7909945, member: 57024 wrote:

How does Magneto, a fair character, compete against the likes of say Doom and Zero?

His movement gives him a small chance against the hard knockdowns, soft knockdowns and ground bounces attached to the broken moves of those characters.

phantasy

should have used fare instead of compare

Klunker

Woot.

HyperShieldSlash

How would Hawkeye fare against Vergil/Vanilla Lariat/Vanilla Gustaff Flame?

ThatJollyOlBastid

Reposting for the one true tier list.

TMNTemps

DevilJin 01, post: 7909962, member: 1242 wrote:

His movement gives him a small chance against the hard knockdowns, soft knockdowns and ground bounces attached to the broken moves of those characters.

it actually just gives you the ability to position yourself perfectly in the sweet spot of all those attacks, saving everybody time by ending matches quickly

Steelguttey

K. New topic. Do you really need to convert off of Vajra for it to be effective? (the assist)

Discarnate

LegendaryDJ, post: 7909671, member: 51510 wrote:

So to start things off, I want to say that I have the two best teams in the game. Once people get past the current meta, everyone will be rocking either my Thor (Smash)/Dormammu (Dark Hole)/Doom (Beam) and my Nova (Rush)/Doom (Beam)/Ammy (Cold Star). It's just a matter of time. Plasma Beam is the future.

I'm almost 90% sure that if MvC3s endgame ever develops into optimized centralization close to Marvel 2's Nova won't be one of the gods. He just doesn't seem to have the tools that say Viper, Mags, Vergil, Zero, or any of the current accepted top characters at that.

I'll avoid commenting on Thor because I'd rather not have the wrath of the gods upon me.



EDIT:

In my opinion having the presence of Vajra alone is a great asset to a team. Converting off of the assist call is an extra perk.

Optimally though, yes you should be able to convert, however its not necessary to be effective.

Saitsu

Steelguttey, post: 7910280, member: 57445 wrote:

K. New topic. Do you really need to convert off of Vajra for it to be effective? (the assist)

Off of raw Vajra not always as Jill can attest to. It would be a good idea though to have something in your bag of tricks that takes advantage of Vajra.

DevilJin 01

Discarnate, post: 7910285, member: 67324 wrote:

I'm almost 90% sure that if MvC3s endgame ever develops into optimized centralization close to Marvel 2's Nova won't be one of the gods. He just doesn't seem to have the tools that say Viper, Mags, Vergil, Zero, or any of the current accepted top characters at that.

I'll avoid commenting on Thor because I'd rather not have the wrath of the gods upon me.

Yeah I'm not sure if Nova can cover his offense well enough without assist to make him that strong as things go on. He does have a godly air throw, anti projectile tools and strong anti super jump options which is big in this game.

The Co-Jones

Steelguttey, post: 7910280, member: 57445 wrote:

K. New topic. Do you really need to convert off of Vajra for it to be effective? (the assist)

Either conversions OR getting chip setups OR other mixup setups make Vajina worthwhile.

It's an overrated assist IMO. It gets blown up real fast by anyone with half a brain.

The Co-Jones

Someone posted something about POINT SENTINEL, saying if there was any competent player using him on point...

There's Rowtron.

DevilJin 01

The Co-Jones, post: 7910318, member: 61803 wrote:

Either conversions OR getting chip setups OR other mixup setups make Vajina worthwhile.

It's an overrated assist IMO. It gets blown up real fast by anyone with half a brain.

Yeah if it had all of those properties and was a projectile then it would truly be fucked up. The one big issue that keeps it at around 5th best assist at most is that Strider puts his body out there as the assist. Most of the other best assists in the game don't put the characters body out to be footsied and supered and what not. It's the easiest to keep safe with teleport style characters otherwise it gets rather easy to footsie and blow up.

The Co-Jones, post: 7910334, member: 61803 wrote:

Someone posted something about POINT SENTINEL, saying if there was any competent player using him on point...

There's Rowtron.

LOL. I always heard about him playing this game but never seen it. Wow he's trying so hard to do that MVC2 again. He actually is running those overheads almost like MVC2. Especially with Chun Li lockdown that's smart. I guess it's not bad.

He even used disruptah assist in both games. LOL. Chun Li is his new Cable.

FuLLBLeeD

Iron Man is bad *puts on shades, rides away on motorcycle to practice Iron Man midscreen TAC infinites*

Marvelo

I actually think Nova is mad underrated and has a lot of tech that most Nova's don't even explore or use. Most Nova's just j.H all day. His priority is pretty ridiculous and has the ability to force you to block pretty easily via cent rushes. Cent Rush M for example, which is his flying dive kick, is +6 or 7 or so from max range, can cross up midscreen, and is used as an antipushblock. Cent Rush L catches a lot of up+back or a lot of people trying to whiff punish your whiffed cr.H.



This is just one of the many aspects of Nova that are still unused by the majority of Nova players. If played properly with the right assists, he's pretty impossible to advancing guard off of you. That combined with his mixup, retarded priority, and ability to cover multiple angles to his game make him a threat that many people can't deal with. I don't think he's as good as the top 5 of the game. But he's definitely in the same tier as other of the top like Dormammu and Wesker. IMO.

Also, he barely has any bad matchups. Wolverine and Vergil being the worst, with Dante and Spencer being close behind. He goes even or beats everyone else.

Din0

Rubillionaire used Sentinel/Dorm/Doom with some success in a major the last year, I forget which one though. He ran Rocks and Purification assists interestingly enough.

Rokmode

guiarroyos, post: 7910402, member: 79841 wrote:

Dr. Strange top 2? Not... yet. He is becoming more popular, but I struggle to find good Strange footage, where he really shows his potential. People are using him mainly as an anchor for Bolts, then Spell of Vishanti XF. Not condemning, it works, so use it. But top 2 is a dream; he is not even top 2 as an anchor. He is really hard to use properly in a match, and it will take some more time for people (including me) to master him.

you must be new here

DevilJin 01

Din0, post: 7910380, member: 45858 wrote:

Rubillionaire used Sentinel/Dorm/Doom with some success in a major the last year, I forget which one though. He ran Rocks and Purification assists interestingly enough.

That is beyond theory. It's like he switched up the roles of the second and anchor's assists as some like MVC2 tribute or something. Hah.

DevilJin 01

DevilJin 01, post: 7909832, member: 1242 wrote:

Visual now on first page.


MORE INFORMATION >>>>> http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph...-read-first-page.162017/page-495#post-7898729



Now discuss as normal. Results monsters can monster etc.

I also like how Dante's support is off the charts.

Shin-Ron

nova only goes even or beats viper players not viper herself

DevilJin 01

Shin-Ron, post: 7910513, member: 47227 wrote:

nova only goes even or beats viper players not viper herself

Yeah I don't really have much problem once I get space from Nova. HAM Nova still messes me up sometimes but unless he has some gdlk DHC or THC ready can handle him well enough. Seismo and laser cuts off most of his normal approaches especially with strong hori or AA assists. Most of his moves ground and air normals are single hit moves which are easy to focus also.

ThatJollyOlBastid

I thought Nova was one of Wolverines bad machups

NonSexualRice

Steelguttey, post: 7910280, member: 57445 wrote:

K. New topic. Do you really need to convert off of Vajra for it to be effective? (the assist)

No. Vajra is mainly for huge space control. The fact that you can OTG off of it is just icing off the cake.

HyperShieldSlash

Does Nova provide a top assist? No? Then he's feces, the thing that comes from ass.

Discarnate

I'm new here, after reading the no top assist = feces character comment I'm not entirely sure what to take seriously.

But to entertain the thought, Dante has Jam Session (and Weasel Shot?), and is still ass.

Marvelo

ThatJollyOlBastid, post: 7910574, member: 46709 wrote:

I thought Nova was one of Wolverines bad machups

Nova beats bad Wolverines. Good Wolverines are crazy hard. For the same reasons Magneto loses to Wolverine except Nova has worse mobility.

Shin-Ron, post: 7910513, member: 47227 wrote:

nova only goes even or beats viper players not viper herself

I think Nova goes even with Viper. It all comes down to the assists. Viper has worse buttons than Nova, but better special moves. Once she's out of meter, Nova can force her to block. With meter Viper has the advantage, but when she's without Nova does. AFAIK.

I can't exactly tell you as I don't play Viper's as often as I want to, but from when I have played Vipers that's what I've gotten. IE: Forward's, FlashMetroid's, Unknown, and Full Schedule are the only Viper's I've played extended sets with. She's probably a lot better vs him than I'm giving her credit, but it's not entirely impossible. I have a way harder time fighting her with my Dante than with Nova.

STANG

Discarnate, post: 7910640, member: 67324 wrote:

I'm new here, after reading the no top assist = feces character comment I'm not entirely sure what to take seriously.

But to entertain the thought, Dante has Jam Session (and Weasel Shot?), and is still ass.

Dante is ass? LOL

Steelguttey

STANG, post: 7910761, member: 19828 wrote:

Dante is ass? LOL

You must be new here.

maziodyne

ThatJollyOlBastid, post: 7910050, member: 46709 wrote:

Reposting for the one true tier list.

Damn, when did Spencer move up from barely mid tier? Good stuff.

DevilJin 01

Steelguttey, post: 7910769, member: 57445 wrote:

You must be new here.

I always love the first page of these threads. Trolololols.

Kef

A lot of new people this time.

HyperShieldSlash

Am I new?

guiarroyos

That's why I deleted my posts. Aren't people allowed to have their opinions?
Anyway:

Spoiler:

For the trolls and for tier lists

STANG

Damn. I'm too new here

HyperShieldSlash

Kef, I wanna play you one day...to prove that Firebrand is a better zero

Dc1

What do you guys think of a team of vergil/zero/viper? The 3 main weaknesses I see are1) lack of abusable assist, 2) can't catch runaway, 3) require a lot of time to get good with all three characters (well maybe not vergil, but they all have to fight for real) . Please discuss

Kef

guiarroyos, post: 7910825, member: 79841 wrote:

That's why I deleted my posts. Aren't people allowed to have their opinions?
Anyway:

Spoiler:

For the trolls and for tier lists

You are. Don't delete your posts.

cjaycr

Point Wesker is eaaaasily top 5...

..in how fun he is.

DevilJin 01

Dc1, post: 7910855, member: 515 wrote:

What do you guys think of a team of vergil/zero/viper? The 3 main weaknesses I see are1) lack of abusable assist, 2) can't catch runaway, 3) require a lot of time to get good with all three characters (well maybe not vergil, but they all have to fight for real) . Please discuss

Almost as good as Thor/Strange/Doom. Low health but they are cheap and you have good DHC with Zero and Vergil.

guiarroyos

Kef, post: 7910882, member: 19928 wrote:

You are. Don't delete your posts.

Sorry. My sodium level rises when I'm trolled.