2013 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams

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  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 99
    Almost as good as Thor/Strange/Doom. Low health but they are cheap and you have good DHC with Zero and Vergil.
    Why those characters for the comparison ? As in that team team suck so its is only compare to another team with bad character? I think thor and strang are too slow, doom's good suppot but only ok character . Please elaborate
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why those characters for the comparison ? As in that team team suck so its is only compare to another team with bad character? I think thor and strang are too slow, doom's good suppot but only ok character . Please elaborate

    Can somebody pls kill the myth that thor is slow? thnx
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 99
    Can somebody pls kill the myth that thor is slow? thnx
    He seem pretty slow from watching abgen videos, do u have any video of good thor play I can watch?
  • ThatJollyOlBastidThatJollyOlBastid Non-stop Climax! Joined: Posts: 19,322 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why those characters for the comparison ? As in that team team suck so its is only compare to another team with bad character? I think thor and strang are too slow, doom's good suppot but only ok character . Please elaborate
    He's joking, lol.

    That team doesn't really work well, and not in a proper order.

    You'd like to go with either:
    1. Zero/Viper/Vergil
    2. Viper//Zero/Vergil
    3. Drop that team because it's pretty lacking in a good neutral assist
    You're better of dropping Zero or Viper and just running One or the other/Vergil/Assist.

    Doom, Dante, Strange, Akuma, Hawkeye, Haggar and Sentinel would be a good fit i guess.
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,321 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why those characters for the comparison ? As in that team team suck so its is only compare to another team with bad character? I think thor and strang are too slow, doom's good suppot but only ok character . Please elaborate

    Thor/Strange/Doom is our troll best theory team. It's actually slightly better than yours.

    It's kinda funny that you did put the team together that you did. It's a good 3 point character team but that's about it. Other stuff explained above it seems. Get a stronger support character somewhere in there and you'll be good. Look at the characters towards the far right of the tier list for recommendations on support.

    Characters with strong assists that you need are in bold.
    God tier:
    Dante
    Amaterasu
    Morrigan
    Doom
    Strange
    Very High Tier:
    Iron Man
    Vergil
    Akuma
    Sentinel
    Strider
    High Tier:
    Magneto
    Hsien-Ko
    Felicia
    Hawkeye
    Phoenix
    Zero
    Frank
    Rocket Raccoon
    Taskmaster
    Arthur
    High Mid Tier:
    Shuma-Gorath
    Storm
    Haggar
    MODOK
    Trish
    Haggar
    Chun-Li
    Spencer
    Mid Tier:
    Dormammu
    Viper
    Nova
    Thor
    Wolverine
    Chris
    Jill
    Tron
    Firebrand
    Ghost Rider
    Captain America
    Low Tier:
    Skrull
    Deadpool
    Ryu
    Phoenix Wright
    Wesker
    Joe
    Bottom Tier:
    X-23
    She-Hulk
    Spider-Man
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  • Cheech WizardCheech Wizard Joined: Posts: 3,299 ✭✭✭
    K. New topic. Do you really need to convert off of Vajra for it to be effective? (the assist)

    Not at all. Morrigan and Viewtiful Joes lockdown are both incredibly potent with Vajra. They dont have to be able to convert to be effective because they constantly put you into situations where theres nowhere to hide on screen. A hard knockdown from vajra is plenty of time to setup a mixup for characters with good tri jumps or other solo high low mixups anyways.
    Slow and steady wins the race
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thor/Strange/Doom is our troll best theory team. It's actually slightly better than yours.

    It's kinda funny that you did put the team together that you did. It's a good 3 point character team but that's about it. Other stuff explained above it seems. Get a stronger support character somewhere in there and you'll be good.

    slightly better? Thor/bolts+strange DHCs would **** on those three characters played in that order, Viper/Zero/Vergil would be sooo much better. I dont like Strange/Doom though, mazio must disagree but i dont like it
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 99
    He's joking, lol.

    That team doesn't really work well, and not in a proper order.

    You'd like to go with either:
    1. Zero/Viper/Vergil
    2. Viper//Zero/Vergil
    3. Drop that team because it's pretty lacking in a good neutral assist
    You're better of dropping Zero or Viper and just running One or the other/Vergil/Assist.

    Doom, Dante, Strange, Akuma, Hawkeye, Haggar and Sentinel would be a good fit i guess.

    Thanks for the reply , I love discussion for marvel
    See the reason I put the team like that is because I think point is vergil's best position, he can' deal with incoming mixups at all because of lack of air movement , so I put him first to fight bad matchups for zero and viper like morridoom or rushdown character. I then power super him and either tag to viper or dhc into zero. This way he have double jump to deal with incoming mix up and also provide a power up assist

    then I have zero second because have a safe incoming super, the invincible exchange tag in uppercut and also can dhc fromvergil pretty well, in game play zero can tod and also build meter for dark viper and vergil. The way I see it my team is actually zero/viper/vergil, vergil just go first for the power up super

    As for viper inthink she the ultimate end game character for umvc3 once people master her so input her last. Im just starting to learn her so I dont know much. But theory wise I think anchor is best for her. Also ger super will lead to dead character with either vergil or zero dhc

    Please more discussion
  • ThatJollyOlBastidThatJollyOlBastid Non-stop Climax! Joined: Posts: 19,322 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, if you want a point Vergil team those two aren't really gonna help out as much as Vergil can help them.

    Good point Vergil teams would be like:
    Vergil/Dante/[Strider/Magneto/Doom]
    Vergil/Wesker/[Strider/Doom/Ammy]
    Vergil/Doom/[Strider/Ammy]
    blah blah.

    Zero is best on point, same with Viper.
    "Seth is like McDonald's. You can learn to make the same burger in 2 days as the person who's worked there for 5 years" ~ Dogura
  • KefKef Joined: Posts: 3,112
    Thanks for the reply , I love discussion for marvel
    See the reason I put the team like that is because I think point is vergil's best position, he can' deal with incoming mixups at all because of lack of air movement , so I put him first to fight bad matchups for zero and viper like morridoom or rushdown character. I then power super him and either tag to viper or dhc into zero. This way he have double jump to deal with incoming mix up and also provide a power up assist

    then I have zero second because have a safe incoming super, the invincible exchange tag in uppercut and also can dhc fromvergil pretty well, in game play zero can tod and also build meter for dark viper and vergil. The way I see it my team is actually zero/viper/vergil, vergil just go first for the power up super

    As for viper inthink she the ultimate end game character for umvc3 once people master her so input her last. Im just starting to learn her so I dont know much. But theory wise I think anchor is best for her. Also ger super will lead to dead character with either vergil or zero dhc

    Please more discussion

    Zero might have problems with MorriDoom, but not with Rushdown characters. His normals + Buster keep a lot of rushdown characters in check.

    The team itself is pretty bad. No top assist to complete the team leaves the 3 characters fighting pretty much on their own (best assist would be Rapid Slash). As Jolly said, drop either Viper or Zero, put an assist that complements Vergil and the other character and you have a great team. Zero/Vergil is actually a very nice duo and were even consider "BFs" at the beginning of Ultimate. Vergil can get pickups with Ryuenjin assist from ground throw and Zero can covert from air throws with rapid slash. Both have safe DHCs and can TOD. You also have two really nice CCs to work with.

    So, best possible teams:
    - Viper-y/Vergil-y/Strider-y
    - Zero-a/Vergil-y/Strider-y
    - Zero-a/Vergil-y/Doom-b
    - Viper-y/Zero-a/Doom-a or Dante-a
    [Very good team, but you don't have Jam Session which is Zero's best assist and also arguably Viper's best too. Plasma Beam allows Viper and Zero to get in easier than Jam Session, but Jam Session makes opponents struggle more with running away. Both Viper and Zero can kill of any random Jam Session hit or Plasma Beam confirm, so scaling shouldn't matter.]
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  • Shin-RonShin-Ron fb/dorm/jam Joined: Posts: 617
    what makes vergil 2nd better than zero 2nd? just swords?
  • SettaiSettai Joined: Posts: 363
    I think Vergil/Strider is the most overrated duo in the game. The only reason people even considered it good is because it was the first team Chris G struggled against. That was back when if you killed Morrigan, you beat Chris G so XF to kill was fine. Also Chris wasn't used to dealing with the assist. Try that against Chris G now, or any other player who is competent with all 3 of their characters and you're going to get bopped. Padtrick is the only player who has had any type of success with the pair anyway. I can name at least 10 other assists that aid Vergil better, and I can name at least 10 characters that benefit from Vajra more than he does.
    MvC3 Offline Team: Morrigan/Magneto/Sentinel
    MvC3 Online Team: Wesker/Nova/Strider
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  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 99
    Thor/Strange/Doom is our troll best theory team. It's actually slightly better than yours.

    It's kinda funny that you did put the team together that you did. It's a good 3 point character team but that's about it. Other stuff explained above it seems. Get a stronger support character somewhere in there and you'll be good. Look at the characters towards the far right of the tier list for recommendations on support.

    Characters with strong assists that you need are in bold.
    etc.

    Thanks for the reply. I use to play mvc2 and really loved rush down but mvc3 and umvc3 gave me the longest period of character/team crisis. I really like vergil, viper, Dante, zero for a long time but all the decent team with them have good support characters (doom, mag, strider) that I know are valuable to a team but don't like individually.

    Vergil is really simple to play and have I feel really stylish combos, same with dante (while he's damage left much to be desired). Zero I think is a really top tier character but to me he somehow feel kinda slow. viper I think is a great character individually but bring nothing to any team (crappy assist, poor dhc, not safe incoming super, etc.) , but god damn it feel good to seismo and feint in people's face all day lol

    that's why I came up with this team, not because I think its a end game team but because it have my favorite characters in it, which make me want to practice, play and win with it. I struggle with wanting to use it for a long time for the obvious reason I list in the first post, but I love those characters.

    I like this thread but you guys always argue about who's top tier in a team base game, so I would like to start off the discussion in the new thread with just my favorite indulgence team. I know the title say tier thread, but i think we should rate team tiers now and that's why I just join the discussion now.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,321 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the reply. I use to play mvc2 and really loved rush down but mvc3 and umvc3 gave me the longest period of character/team crisis. I really like vergil, viper, Dante, zero for a long time but all the decent team with them have good support characters (doom, mag, strider) that I know are valuable to a team but don't like individually.

    Vergil is really simple to play and have I feel really stylish combos, same with dante (while he's damage left much to be desired). Zero I think is a really top tier character but to me he somehow feel kinda slow. viper I think is a great character individually but bring nothing to any team (crappy assist, poor dhc, not safe incoming super, etc.) , but god damn it feel good to seismo and feint in people's face all day lol

    that's why I came up with this team, not because I think its a end game team but because it have my favorite characters in it, which make me want to practice, play and win with it. I struggle with wanting to use it for a long time for the obvious reason I list in the first post, but I love those characters.

    I like this thread but you guys always argue about who's top tier in a team base game, so I would like to start off the discussion in the new thread with just my favorite indulgence team. I know the title say tier thread, but i think we should rate team tiers now and that's why I just join the discussion now.

    It's hard to rate team tiers ATM because there's so many more viable teams than there were in MVC2. You can like run off with a list of good teams but it would take forever to tier them based on that. That's why we just settle for who is strongest on point and who is strongest on support. Put characters together based on that and you have a really strong team from there. The game will get more matchup based as time goes on also (just like MVC2 did) so even if you find the MSP of the game...there's probably some team that counters it unless you're like Yipes or J.Wong good to overcome the counters consistently.
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,321 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think Vergil/Strider is the most overrated duo in the game. The only reason people even considered it good is because it was the first team Chris G struggled against. That was back when if you killed Morrigan, you beat Chris G so XF to kill was fine. Also Chris wasn't used to dealing with the assist. Try that against Chris G now, or any other player who is competent with all 3 of their characters and you're going to get bopped. Padtrick is the only player who has had any type of success with the pair anyway. I can name at least 10 other assists that aid Vergil better, and I can name at least 10 characters that benefit from Vajra more than he does.

    I wouldn't go so fast with that.

    Drew Grimey got top 16 at Evo with Viper/Vergil/Strider and also swept through the first round of the AfterShock Cali team tourney with that team.

    About 20 minutes in starting.


    Strider assist is just very strong with characters that can move behind you quickly because they make it a bit harder to footsie and maneuver around the assist correctly. The lack of ability to lock down and the fact that it puts Strider's body out there can make the assist a liability. I do agree that Vergil/Strider is a bit overrated...but it's fast and it works and that's usually good enough in this game.

    It's probably the ultimate theory blow up theory team that's currently out or was recently used by a top player. If you don't have shit tight with your theory team it will blow it up.
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  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 99
    Well, if you want a point Vergil team those two aren't really gonna help out as much as Vergil can help them.

    Good point Vergil teams would be like:
    Vergil/Dante/[Strider/Magneto/Doom]
    Vergil/Wesker/[Strider/Doom/Ammy]
    Vergil/Doom/[Strider/Ammy]
    blah blah.

    Zero is best on point, same with Viper.

    my favorite vergil point team is vergil(rapid slash)/Dante(ice)/Strider(vyjara, vijara... teleport kick assist lol). But it not really a vergil team but focus all on dante. Once vergil power up, dante can really wreck shop with strider assist and tod dhc behind him in vergil.

    I think the team scrub for this game is wesker/vergil/strider haha, if i have to play on pad I just use that team and its pretty easy fun. I actually consider maining that team bust wesker have poor dhc options into vergil.

    vergil/doom/strider - ugh doom... i hate using doom.. lol but really I don't like the vergil/doom pairing even though chris g and nerd josh had success with it. doom is just a assist to me. I rather have dante than doom. What do you think about vergil/doom pairing?
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 99
    Zero might have problems with MorriDoom, but not with Rushdown characters. His normals + Buster keep a lot of rushdown characters in check.

    The team itself is pretty bad. No top assist to complete the team leaves the 3 characters fighting pretty much on their own (best assist would be Rapid Slash). As Jolly said, drop either Viper or Zero, put an assist that complements Vergil and the other character and you have a great team. Zero/Vergil is actually a very nice duo and were even consider "BFs" at the beginning of Ultimate. Vergil can get pickups with Ryuenjin assist from ground throw and Zero can covert from air throws with rapid slash. Both have safe DHCs and can TOD. You also have two really nice CCs to work with.

    So, best possible teams:
    - Viper-y/Vergil-y/Strider-y
    - Zero-a/Vergil-y/Strider-y
    - Zero-a/Vergil-y/Doom-b
    - Viper-y/Zero-a/Doom-a or Dante-a
    [Very good team, but you don't have Jam Session which is Zero's best assist and also arguably Viper's best too. Plasma Beam allows Viper and Zero to get in easier than Jam Session, but Jam Session makes opponents struggle more with running away. Both Viper and Zero can kill of any random Jam Session hit or Plasma Beam confirm, so scaling shouldn't matter.]

    haha that's what my friend told me when i told he about that team , in fact he was like " that team is shit ( instead of "the shit", lol)

    I like the zero/vergil together alot for the same reasons you said ( ryujin combo extension for vergil and throw pick up for zero). I guess I would say the best assist would be strider. Marn seem to be doing really good with that team. But I think strider assist would not be such as a big as thread once people figure out how to avoid it. It does have problem tracking sometime, and it the opponent move forward, it whiffs.

    I like viper/vergil when i watch drewgrimey play, but viper have problem in a team base game don't you think? she have poor dhc in if she get snap out ( vergil get rape on incoming) and poor assist. I think that's why she's not doing so good in tournament, not because she's a bad character individually but because people have to build a team around her while she don't really give support to the other two characters. I think marlin pie's team circumvent this by have the doom/ammy paring(which viper do nothing for them other than extend combos) because the pairing don't need anything from viper. I don't know... I want to use viper but she's such a bad character in a team game.

    I like viper/zero/dante.. enough said
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 99
    It's hard to rate team tiers ATM because there's so many more viable teams than there were in MVC2. You can like run off with a list of good teams but it would take forever to tier them based on that. That's why we just settle for who is strongest on point and who is strongest on support. Put characters together based on that and you have a really strong team from there. The game will get more matchup based as time goes on also (just like MVC2 did) so even if you find the MSP of the game...there's probably some team that counters it unless you're like Yipes or J.Wong good to overcome the counters consistently.

    good reply , there is a lot of viable team in Umvc3 still.. which is very good because more characters and more variety, but man every hot team that come out I just want o use them. make it so hard to stick with a team.

    how about rating paring for now ? maybe we can compile a list of the best paring and then people and criss and cross and come up with more optimal team than the ones out now? for example, ( and I got this from you guys)
    dante/mag+ zero/dante = zero/dante/mag( or any order of that team)

    i think zero/dante/mag is as close to a all around theory top tier team as we have now.
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 99
    slightly better? Thor/bolts+strange DHCs would **** on those three characters played in that order, Viper/Zero/Vergil would be sooo much better. I dont like Strange/Doom though, mazio must disagree but i dont like it
    thor is good with bolts ? are there videos? ... lol I get it its a troll team but there must be videos showing how good it is
  • Lord_RaptorLord_Raptor Joined: Posts: 8,550 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think Nova goes even with Viper. It all comes down to the assists. Viper has worse buttons than Nova, but better special moves. Once she's out of meter, Nova can force her to block. With meter Viper has the advantage, but when she's without Nova does. AFAIK.
    I thought the same thing, but Viper can actually outzone Nova easily if she runs out fo meter. Seismos hit at justt he right height to give Nova a hard approach and Blast cust off his ability to call assist to get in unless he gets out a Level 2 Pulse.
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  • IcyieIcyie Joined: Posts: 253
    haha that's what my friend told me when i told he about that team , in fact he was like " that team is shit ( instead of "the shit", lol)

    I like the zero/vergil together alot for the same reasons you said ( ryujin combo extension for vergil and throw pick up for zero). I guess I would say the best assist would be strider. Marn seem to be doing really good with that team. But I think strider assist would not be such as a big as thread once people figure out how to avoid it. It does have problem tracking sometime, and it the opponent move forward, it whiffs.

    I like viper/vergil when i watch drewgrimey play, but viper have problem in a team base game don't you think? she have poor dhc in if she get snap out ( vergil get rape on incoming) and poor assist. I think that's why she's not doing so good in tournament, not because she's a bad character individually but because people have to build a team around her while she don't really give support to the other two characters. I think marlin pie's team circumvent this by have the doom/ammy paring(which viper do nothing for them other than extend combos) because the pairing don't need anything from viper. I don't know... I want to use viper but she's such a bad character in a team game.

    I like viper/zero/dante.. enough said

    The second paragraph caught my eye. Viper wouldn't be a bad character whether this was a team/solo game. She has tools to flood the screen, make herself safe, all while putting pressure on the opponent. And this being a team game, she has two assists behind her to make her even MORE safe and/or help her flood the screen. viper/jam session unblockables? Viper/Vajra? Both examples of how she becomes a hell of a lot better in a team game. Yes she has a poor DHC, but she's a point character at her core. Optimally, you'll just pressure the opponent enough until they make a mistake and you catch them in one, and then incoming mixups so your opponent just has to guess or die. The only reason why I think she's not winning any tournaments is the same thing people have been saying: nobody's playing her to her highest potential yet. And with her skill cap, it'll probably take a lot more time.
  • HyperShieldSlashHyperShieldSlash No Items, Little Mac Only, Final Destination Joined: Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭
    Vergil/Disruptah/Hiding Missles. Discuss.
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  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 99
    The second paragraph caught my eye. Viper wouldn't be a bad character whether this was a team/solo game. She has tools to flood the screen, make herself safe, all while putting pressure on the opponent. And this being a team game, she has two assists behind her to make her even MORE safe and/or help her flood the screen. viper/jam session unblockables? Viper/Vajra? Both examples of how she becomes a hell of a lot better in a team game. Yes she has a poor DHC, but she's a point character at her core. Optimally, you'll just pressure the opponent enough until they make a mistake and you catch them in one, and then incoming mixups so your opponent just has to guess or die. The only reason why I think she's not winning any tournaments is the same thing people have been saying: nobody's playing her to her highest potential yet. And with her skill cap, it'll probably take a lot more time.

    I agree with some parts. you are right with the right assists she is a monster. She can can people up that's for sure and even more so with the right assist. But my argument is that she don't bring much to the other characters in the team. DHC wise she can't TOD like zero lighting loop DHC or Vergil sword loop DHC. Assist wise, she have nothing abusive like dante jam session or gimmicky like morrigan meter gain assist(She can do OTG combo extension or highlow with burn kick, but that's about it). THC wise she can't do anything like ammy or dante super shenanigans . She don't have a multi-direction TAC infinite for meter or free damage. She is a solo character that gets better with people backing her up but don't assist the other characters in the team.

    Now back to you first point of her being a top tier flood/pressure character, that's true only when she's in play right? what if she get snap back? got chipped by morridoom, or lame out by zero, dorm or even modok! once she's out of play, even when she's still alive, she bring nothing to the table to help her teammates. Compare to other top tiers characters even if they are out of play they are still a threat because they provide godlike asssist( dante, mag) , have DHC TOD(vergil or zero) or can come back in safely with powerup/safe super (morrigan, ammy, vergil, dante, doom, etc.) but viper can't do any of that.

    So for viper people can simply snap her out or force her to tag and don't have to worry much about her making much difference for her team. This way people don't have to waste/use xfactor , multiple level, long combos, or hard set up to kill her. This give your opponent more resources and chance to deal with your other character while you might have to pop xfactor, super (morrigan(3 levels!) , sentinel) to come in safely or take back the momentum.

    team that succeed with viper always have to good duo behind her like ammy/doom, doom/strider, vergil/strider or dante/strider because these duo don't need her, while she need them to complement her game. You always here viper/strider or viper/dante being a good pair but never the other way around. not body is scare of a x factor less strider with viper backing him up right?

    with that say, do you think viper/dante/strider is the best viper team ?
  • IcyieIcyie Joined: Posts: 253
    Burning Kick, an almost full screen overhead assist vergil can (probably) get unblockables off of? Dante gets nice combos of off burning kick extension/mid combo. An otg assist in seismo for situational usage? This is all theory, but Viper shouldn't have to deal with getting snapped back much because she should be controlling the pace of the match, and getting the first hit. She doesn't NEED to bring good support to a team to not be a bad character, she's already a top character just in the point position. Some matchups are skewed in her favor just by having rapid seismos. Of course a character gets worse in a sub-optimal position, just like when your assist/anchor characters are snapped in.
  • AniMoneyAniMoney Joined: Posts: 930 ✭✭✭✭
    What changed about Lariat from Vanilla to Ultimate? I know they removed the hard knockdown, but did they change anything else? It was super abused along with Tron assist but now nobody runs it, yet it still seems mostly the same? It's not like you need the knockdown to confirm off of it, you have plenty of time usually.
    UMVC3: Various Wolverine and Magneto teams.
    SSF4AE : Balrog/whoever, I don't play this much anymore
    I overthink everything and get bopped.
  • RoboticRobotic Joined: Posts: 2,589 ✭✭✭✭
    It only has 1 frame of invincibility.
  • EnDaNickofTimeEnDaNickofTime Joined: Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    it definitely has 33 frames of invincibility...
  • maziodynemaziodyne I'll crush you in one strike! Joined: Posts: 7,564
    slightly better? Thor/bolts+strange DHCs would **** on those three characters played in that order, Viper/Zero/Vergil would be sooo much better. I dont like Strange/Doom though, mazio must disagree but i dont like it

    Strange/Doom is more hitbox flood-oriented, which I'm sure DevilJin at least would appreciate. THC is nothing to write home about and the mixups aren't as good as Strange/Dante or Strange/Dog, but nonetheless, it is still a very strong support shell for the point character. Strange's projectile game is very under-utilized at this point in the meta IMO-- that's why I messed around with it for a good while before switching to a more offensive/oppressive shell, Strange/Dante.
    Retired Mahvel scrub.
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 99
    Burning Kick, an almost full screen overhead assist vergil can (probably) get unblockables off of? Dante gets nice combos of off burning kick extension/mid combo. An otg assist in seismo for situational usage? This is all theory, but Viper shouldn't have to deal with getting snapped back much because she should be controlling the pace of the match, and getting the first hit. She doesn't NEED to bring good support to a team to not be a bad character, she's already a top character just in the point position. Some matchups are skewed in her favor just by having rapid seismos. Of course a character gets worse in a sub-optimal position, just like when your assist/anchor characters are snapped in.

    Well you are talking about a ideal situation then. Of course there are characters that are great at getting the first hit (viper, zero, wolverine) but that's not always the case. People drop combos and while this game is very prone to one touch kill, as people play the game more, getting kill from first hit is just not as easy (learned match up, set ups).

    Can you guarantee first hit every game? Don't the other person also look for that first hit? What if you are playing a run away team like modok , or zoning team like morridoom, or dorm. Therefore, you should always consider what happen when your viper is going out of play

    yes, the whole point of snapping mechanism is to bring out the weaker link in the team. But in this case , if you get snap , not only are you forced in a weak character on your team, viper also then just sit in the back providing like you said 1) a almost full screen overhead assist that's prone to chicken guard, and 2) a mediocre otg assist that don't stun them that long compare to wesker and dante's otg assist. Very weak assist for the team.
  • IcyieIcyie Joined: Posts: 253
    That's like saying people would optimally always snap-in viper though. And getting first hit vs her. This argument goes both ways.
  • Dark SonicDark Sonic Joined: Posts: 1,053
    What changed about Lariat from Vanilla to Ultimate? I know they removed the hard knockdown, but did they change anything else? It was super abused along with Tron assist but now nobody runs it, yet it still seems mostly the same? It's not like you need the knockdown to confirm off of it, you have plenty of time usually.

    IIRC it now has 2 frames of vulnerability before it's invincibility kicks in. You can still kinda mash it, but anything meaty will end up bodying your assist. Zoning teams have also become more popular and obviously lariat isn't gonna help much there.
    "The only thing Dante needs is more Dante, and that is EXACTLY what DT gives him" - OgreCasteel
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 6,867 ✭✭✭✭
    i had a dream a few days ago that i was using viper. the dream quickly turned into a nightmare when i fought against taskmaster with akuma.

    how does viper even approach task/akuma?

    that being said, i tried out task/akuma today. shit is pants on head retarded.

    shield skills, call akuma, stinger/arrows. best part is that you can call akuma anytime during shield skills.

    shield skills, opponent think you can punish, gets hit by akuma. follow up with whatever.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • tabtab the impossible dream Joined: Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭✭✭
    rapid seismos is really good against task.

    really, REALLY good. it kinda destroys his keepaway game entirely, especially combined with strider. you have to go in as him against her, which risks ex seismo and ex tk and whatnot. also ex thunderknuckle makes jump arrows possibly lead to your death if they do guess ex tks.

    it's slightly in her favor but only because she forces him into a certain playstyle. i kinda feel he can still fight her up close but i can't put my finger on why. (better normals/close up poking game?)
  • leafcolonelleafcolonel Apprentice of Magnetism Joined: Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭
    Task/Akuma is so good. Lets you go nuts with rushdown with Taskmaster and gives no fucks about any keepaway.

    Task/Jam Session/Tatsu is the most optimized Task point team imo and it's pretty damn fun just my Akuma is ass. If your Task team doesn't let you mash on Shield Skills with Taskmaster you are playing the character wrong.

    I think the question of Vajra for characters that can't confirm off it is an interesting question, it's certainly not optimal, but it's very very good if your character has a strong keepaway game(see JRosa's Morrigan or HowToRead's Joe as Cheech mentioned) it limits your opponents options heavily if you are playing a keepaway character. Hawkeye can confirm off it but I'm more than happy to just utilize it for keepaway. So I think the assist is definitely worth using if your point character has a strong keepaway game. Magneto with Vajra is an interesting conundrum, just with how effective Magneto is with missiles I don't think it'll end up used since he gets no confirms off Vajra and his keepaway/zoning game benefits more from the lockdown missiles gives rather than the hard knockdowns of Vajra.

    I think the 3 characters that get the most out of Vajra are Wesker/Deadpool/Dante, those three are made complete in neutral with that assist and can utilize it for full screen mixups with teleports, zone well with it and rush down well with it while protecting it relatively well, and have the mobility/otgs to get easy confirms off it without meter/xfactor. Viper/Morrigan/Chris/Nova/Nova etc are also godlike with Vajra, but Deadpool/Dante/Wesker get so so much from it and synergize very well. Viper/Vajra, Morrigan/Vajra, Dante/Vajra are some of the scariest things and most potent things in the game, and will all be a staple of end game teams.

    On another note:
    How do you guys feel regarding Skrull/ Viper or Task or Firebrand/ Assist as a possible end game team, or even 3 unblockable characters/ Tenderizer/Assist? I think they can be very potent as you only need one hit with Skrull to DHC into Viper/Task/Firebrand and setup unblockable loops with that character, or simply get any hit with Task/Viper/Firebrand on point to go into unblockable loops. Do you feel it's off any practicality/use?

    Note that I didn't mention Jam Session for unblockables since Jam Session based unblockables are escapable unlike Tenderizer, I just won't expose myself.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,321 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i had a dream a few days ago that i was using viper. the dream quickly turned into a nightmare when i fought against taskmaster with akuma.

    how does viper even approach task/akuma?

    that being said, i tried out task/akuma today. shit is pants on head retarded.

    shield skills, call akuma, stinger/arrows. best part is that you can call akuma anytime during shield skills.

    shield skills, opponent think you can punish, gets hit by akuma. follow up with whatever.

    Characters like Captain America, Task and Akuma force you to learn how to utilize focus. Focus is another heavily underutilized tactic because it's the main tool they gave her to beat footsies that she normally has trouble with. Especially characters with high priority non rapid fire normals or moves that generally absorb projectiles.

    The only other character that still has hyper armor IIRC is she hulk and she has to commit to a special move in order to get it.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 99
    What do u guys think about these three morridoom teams

    Vergil/morrigan/doom
    Mag/morrigan/doom
    Ammy/morrigan doom

    Elaborate if u will
  • SteelgutteySteelguttey MoThErFuCkEr Joined: Posts: 729
    Why those characters for the comparison ? As in that team team suck so its is only compare to another team with bad character? I think thor and strang are too slow, doom's good suppot but only ok character . Please elaborate
    You must be new here.
    XBL: Steelguttey
    UMVC3: Main: Amaterasu (Cold Star), Frank West (Shopping Cart), Dante (Jam Session)
  • SteelgutteySteelguttey MoThErFuCkEr Joined: Posts: 729
    thor is good with bolts ? are there videos? ... lol I get it its a troll team but there must be videos showing how good it is
    Its just that thor gets free command grabs between blocked bolts and he can tod thanks to dhcing to strange for fof loops.
    XBL: Steelguttey
    UMVC3: Main: Amaterasu (Cold Star), Frank West (Shopping Cart), Dante (Jam Session)
  • DiscarnateDiscarnate Keep Calm and Don't Allow Them To Play Joined: Posts: 157
    SRK UMvC3 Tier Thread: Please Lurk Before Posting
    I'm just Fraudlike
    UMvC3: Spy May Stride (alt: Zero/Doom/Phoenix)
    Melee/Brawl: Peach (M alt: Young Link) (Brwl alt: Falco) SF4: Viper (alts: Cammy/Yun) SFxT: Cammy x Lili
    Sometimes I need to be alone, Doom don't kill my vibe. - Play Melee its a good game. - Learning Skullbabes
  • charlie88charlie88 Devil Survivor is my $Hit....your friendly neighborhood NiGga Joined: Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭✭
    WTH does IIRC MEAN?
    A wild typical Nigga appeared...... Greninja use Job Application, Committment and Read A Book...... Its super effective..... The Wild Nigga fleed..... Win Quote: I must use the tools the white man has given us to protect our world from coonery and bafoonery
  • DiscarnateDiscarnate Keep Calm and Don't Allow Them To Play Joined: Posts: 157
    WTH does IIRC MEAN?

    If I Remember Correctly
    I'm just Fraudlike
    UMvC3: Spy May Stride (alt: Zero/Doom/Phoenix)
    Melee/Brawl: Peach (M alt: Young Link) (Brwl alt: Falco) SF4: Viper (alts: Cammy/Yun) SFxT: Cammy x Lili
    Sometimes I need to be alone, Doom don't kill my vibe. - Play Melee its a good game. - Learning Skullbabes
  • GomuGomuGomuGomu Strider Sucks Joined: Posts: 8,291 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Characters with strong assists that you need are in bold.

    Put Iron Fist in high tier please, thanks.
    Strider still sucks.
  • The Co-JonesThe Co-Jones Yo, what dafuq are ya doin bruh? Joined: Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭✭✭
    WTH does IIRC MEAN?

    If I Recall Correctly
    UMVC3: Taskmaster / Sentinel / Nova -|- Taskmaster / Dormammu / Sentinel

    Sentinel Model: COTA-94-Prototype Running Windows Vista


    3DS FC: 3024-5714-6069

    SRK Pokemon Rotation Battle Champion
  • leafcolonelleafcolonel Apprentice of Magnetism Joined: Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭
    What do u guys think about these three morridoom teams

    Vergil/morrigan/doom
    Mag/morrigan/doom
    Ammy/morrigan doom

    Elaborate if u will

    Vergil/Morrigan/Doom or Morrigan/Vergil/Doom are both excellent teams. Vergil helps out alot with Morrigan's damage issues if she's on point by going into sword loop DHCs without relying on TACs for kills, allows her to combo into Soul Drains plus gives her serious confirms off throws/command grabs. Rapid Slash isn't half bad for Morrigan since she can protect it and it pushes back full screen. The Vergil/Doom duo is actually fairly good too once you abuse the Round Trip glitch and has serious lockdown/mixups. Vergil can't really protect Dark Harmonizer with projectiles and he likes assists for lockdown, but he benefits alot from the bar it build to go into Sword Loops/DT. Overall it's the strongest team Chris G came up with yet and is very strong.

    Morrigan/Doom/Ammy. Nothing much to say here, Doom/Ammy is a very well studied and explored support shell. Doom provides great TACs for Morrigan's damage, hidden missiles is great for her neutral, and Cold Star is really good for Morrigan's mixups which are really really good. Plus you don't have to rely on Doom anchor and get to play Doom/Ammy with THCs which is a solid shell.

    Magneto/Morrigan/Doom. Arguably the strongest Magneto team in the game and is one of the stronger teams in the game overall. Magneto is a very solid point character that can be played well with only Missiles/Plasma beam, he can call Dark Harmonizer fairly safely with Magnetic Blasts and flight and play a very strong game with missiles alone. The best part about Magneto is unlike the other top tiers(other than Zero) he is not meter dependent or optimized with Meter, you can simply play him as a battery with abusing Dark Harmonizer and Doom TACs + TAC resets(by calling Dark Harmonizer at the end of combos) to build meter for Morrigan. Once you build enough bar or get kills you can Shockwave xx Astral Vision or raw tag her in and mess around with Astral Vision.

    All teams are very strong and all are end game viable imo. Switching points between Morrigan/Magneto or Vergil/Morrigan will cover the majority of matchups in the game too.
  • guiarroyosguiarroyos What kind of sorcery is this? Joined: Posts: 123
    The point/support/(point+support) tier lists are the first ones I totally agree with. I never saw anyone playing Ghost Rider in any position but point, though. Can he work on support? :P
    slightly better? Thor/bolts+strange DHCs would **** on those three characters played in that order, Viper/Zero/Vergil would be sooo much better. I dont like Strange/Doom though, mazio must disagree but i dont like it

    Man, Strange/Doom is awesome. Hidden missiles helps Strange a lot, as it can crossup with teleport, extend combos (Faltine loops included), save your ass from being killed and Strange has tools to make Doom safe when called. Plus you got safe ways to get Doom in the fight when needed. Also bolts assist allows Doom to control ground really well. Need to say that anchor Doom is pretty ass, though.
    UMvC3: Magneto - Dr. Strange - Dr. Doom
    SSFIVAE: Rose
    MK9: Rain - Ermac
    Injustice: Raven - Batman
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,321 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, I do still remember you noted about that before. It seemed that you still trusted that it was Shin-Akuma who killed all the people in the cities. yet Gwawainn believed that it was Evil Ryu (SnH Ryu) who did all the massacre. Who has the right answer? Please see the next chapter!! (I am sure, the invader will be revealed in the next chapter!!)

    For the readers who do not know the chinese characters. Chapter 21 noted a chinese character, that is "Destroy"

    Here's an attachment, to show what this character looks like.

    More like ask Chrisis. Plus everyone will just label him with the "Iron" effect.

    Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • GREEKGREEK Ryu's been smoking that shit Joined: Posts: 556
    I highly doubt morrigan is a top 2 charcter outside of morri/doom

    champ, chris G and others at champs house said that morrigan isn't nearly as overwhelming as morri/doom.
    GUILTYGEARXRD HOLY SMOKES
  • ThatJollyOlBastidThatJollyOlBastid Non-stop Climax! Joined: Posts: 19,322 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For people with mvc2 knowoff, why did Spiral/Blackheart fall off?
    "Seth is like McDonald's. You can learn to make the same burger in 2 days as the person who's worked there for 5 years" ~ Dogura
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭✭✭
    He seem pretty slow from watching abgen videos, do u have any video of good thor play I can watch?

    lolabegen thor...
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Man, Strange/Doom is awesome. Hidden missiles helps Strange a lot, as it can crossup with teleport, extend combos (Faltine loops included), save your ass from being killed and Strange has tools to make Doom safe when called. Plus you got safe ways to get Doom in the fight when needed. Also bolts assist allows Doom to control ground really well. Need to say that anchor Doom is pretty ass, though.

    yeah its good in the neutral, but it wont save Strange from getting mauled like coldstar/vale of mist/Okami shuffle THC/jam session/lariat
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
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