2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams

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  • KefKef Joined: Posts: 3,170
    A lot of new people this time.
    If you wanna play some MVC2/Xrd/SFV: PSN: I-kef-I SFV ID: I-kef-I
    From Miami, if you are in the area, don't be afraid to PM me for some locals.

    "Don't be nice, it's Marvel son, the origin of hatred. The game ain't about being nice. If you want to be nice play Tea Party Adventures. They go that shit on DS I heard." - Romneto
  • HyperShieldSlashHyperShieldSlash No Items, Little Mac Only, Final Destination Joined: Posts: 1,141
    Am I new?
    Bious wrote: »
    What about when the ass on your old ass ass croaks?
    Rokmode wrote: »
    you are my favorite poster
  • guiarroyosguiarroyos What kind of sorcery is this? Joined: Posts: 123
    That's why I deleted my posts. Aren't people allowed to have their opinions?
    Anyway:
    4db77_ORIG-look_at_all_the_fucks_i_give.jpg
    For the trolls and for tier lists
    UMvC3: Magneto - Dr. Strange - Dr. Doom
    SSFIVAE: Rose
    MK9: Rain - Ermac
    Injustice: Raven - Batman
  • STANGSTANG Joined: Posts: 1,200
    Damn. I'm too new here
  • HyperShieldSlashHyperShieldSlash No Items, Little Mac Only, Final Destination Joined: Posts: 1,141
    Kef, I wanna play you one day...to prove that Firebrand is a better zero
    Bious wrote: »
    What about when the ass on your old ass ass croaks?
    Rokmode wrote: »
    you are my favorite poster
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 111
    What do you guys think of a team of vergil/zero/viper? The 3 main weaknesses I see are1) lack of abusable assist, 2) can't catch runaway, 3) require a lot of time to get good with all three characters (well maybe not vergil, but they all have to fight for real) . Please discuss
  • KefKef Joined: Posts: 3,170
    That's why I deleted my posts. Aren't people allowed to have their opinions?
    Anyway:
    4db77_ORIG-look_at_all_the_fucks_i_give.jpg
    For the trolls and for tier lists

    You are. Don't delete your posts.
    If you wanna play some MVC2/Xrd/SFV: PSN: I-kef-I SFV ID: I-kef-I
    From Miami, if you are in the area, don't be afraid to PM me for some locals.

    "Don't be nice, it's Marvel son, the origin of hatred. The game ain't about being nice. If you want to be nice play Tea Party Adventures. They go that shit on DS I heard." - Romneto
  • cjaycrcjaycr Joined: Posts: 1,002
    Point Wesker is eaaaasily top 5...

    ..in how fun he is.
    Invisibility Frames.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,830 mod
    What do you guys think of a team of vergil/zero/viper? The 3 main weaknesses I see are1) lack of abusable assist, 2) can't catch runaway, 3) require a lot of time to get good with all three characters (well maybe not vergil, but they all have to fight for real) . Please discuss

    Almost as good as Thor/Strange/Doom. Low health but they are cheap and you have good DHC with Zero and Vergil.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • guiarroyosguiarroyos What kind of sorcery is this? Joined: Posts: 123
    You are. Don't delete your posts.
    Sorry. My sodium level rises when I'm trolled.
    UMvC3: Magneto - Dr. Strange - Dr. Doom
    SSFIVAE: Rose
    MK9: Rain - Ermac
    Injustice: Raven - Batman
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 111
    Almost as good as Thor/Strange/Doom. Low health but they are cheap and you have good DHC with Zero and Vergil.
    Why those characters for the comparison ? As in that team team suck so its is only compare to another team with bad character? I think thor and strang are too slow, doom's good suppot but only ok character . Please elaborate
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,525
    Why those characters for the comparison ? As in that team team suck so its is only compare to another team with bad character? I think thor and strang are too slow, doom's good suppot but only ok character . Please elaborate

    Can somebody pls kill the myth that thor is slow? thnx
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 111
    Can somebody pls kill the myth that thor is slow? thnx
    He seem pretty slow from watching abgen videos, do u have any video of good thor play I can watch?
  • ThatJollyOlBastidThatJollyOlBastid soon Joined: Posts: 19,826
    Why those characters for the comparison ? As in that team team suck so its is only compare to another team with bad character? I think thor and strang are too slow, doom's good suppot but only ok character . Please elaborate
    He's joking, lol.

    That team doesn't really work well, and not in a proper order.

    You'd like to go with either:
    1. Zero/Viper/Vergil
    2. Viper//Zero/Vergil
    3. Drop that team because it's pretty lacking in a good neutral assist
    You're better of dropping Zero or Viper and just running One or the other/Vergil/Assist.

    Doom, Dante, Strange, Akuma, Hawkeye, Haggar and Sentinel would be a good fit i guess.
    "Seth is like McDonald's. You can learn to make the same burger in 2 days as the person who's worked there for 5 years" ~ Dogura
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,830 mod
    Why those characters for the comparison ? As in that team team suck so its is only compare to another team with bad character? I think thor and strang are too slow, doom's good suppot but only ok character . Please elaborate

    Thor/Strange/Doom is our troll best theory team. It's actually slightly better than yours.

    It's kinda funny that you did put the team together that you did. It's a good 3 point character team but that's about it. Other stuff explained above it seems. Get a stronger support character somewhere in there and you'll be good. Look at the characters towards the far right of the tier list for recommendations on support.

    Characters with strong assists that you need are in bold.
    God tier:
    Dante
    Amaterasu
    Morrigan
    Doom
    Strange
    Very High Tier:
    Iron Man
    Vergil
    Akuma
    Sentinel
    Strider
    High Tier:
    Magneto
    Hsien-Ko
    Felicia
    Hawkeye
    Phoenix
    Zero
    Frank
    Rocket Raccoon
    Taskmaster
    Arthur
    High Mid Tier:
    Shuma-Gorath
    Storm
    Haggar
    MODOK
    Trish
    Haggar
    Chun-Li
    Spencer
    Mid Tier:
    Dormammu
    Viper
    Nova
    Thor
    Wolverine
    Chris
    Jill
    Tron
    Firebrand
    Ghost Rider
    Captain America
    Low Tier:
    Skrull
    Deadpool
    Ryu
    Phoenix Wright
    Wesker
    Joe
    Bottom Tier:
    X-23
    She-Hulk
    Spider-Man

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Cheech WizardCheech Wizard Joined: Posts: 3,601
    K. New topic. Do you really need to convert off of Vajra for it to be effective? (the assist)

    Not at all. Morrigan and Viewtiful Joes lockdown are both incredibly potent with Vajra. They dont have to be able to convert to be effective because they constantly put you into situations where theres nowhere to hide on screen. A hard knockdown from vajra is plenty of time to setup a mixup for characters with good tri jumps or other solo high low mixups anyways.
    Slow and steady wins the race
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,525
    Thor/Strange/Doom is our troll best theory team. It's actually slightly better than yours.

    It's kinda funny that you did put the team together that you did. It's a good 3 point character team but that's about it. Other stuff explained above it seems. Get a stronger support character somewhere in there and you'll be good.

    slightly better? Thor/bolts+strange DHCs would **** on those three characters played in that order, Viper/Zero/Vergil would be sooo much better. I dont like Strange/Doom though, mazio must disagree but i dont like it
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 111
    He's joking, lol.

    That team doesn't really work well, and not in a proper order.

    You'd like to go with either:
    1. Zero/Viper/Vergil
    2. Viper//Zero/Vergil
    3. Drop that team because it's pretty lacking in a good neutral assist
    You're better of dropping Zero or Viper and just running One or the other/Vergil/Assist.

    Doom, Dante, Strange, Akuma, Hawkeye, Haggar and Sentinel would be a good fit i guess.

    Thanks for the reply , I love discussion for marvel
    See the reason I put the team like that is because I think point is vergil's best position, he can' deal with incoming mixups at all because of lack of air movement , so I put him first to fight bad matchups for zero and viper like morridoom or rushdown character. I then power super him and either tag to viper or dhc into zero. This way he have double jump to deal with incoming mix up and also provide a power up assist

    then I have zero second because have a safe incoming super, the invincible exchange tag in uppercut and also can dhc fromvergil pretty well, in game play zero can tod and also build meter for dark viper and vergil. The way I see it my team is actually zero/viper/vergil, vergil just go first for the power up super

    As for viper inthink she the ultimate end game character for umvc3 once people master her so input her last. Im just starting to learn her so I dont know much. But theory wise I think anchor is best for her. Also ger super will lead to dead character with either vergil or zero dhc

    Please more discussion
  • ThatJollyOlBastidThatJollyOlBastid soon Joined: Posts: 19,826
    Well, if you want a point Vergil team those two aren't really gonna help out as much as Vergil can help them.

    Good point Vergil teams would be like:
    Vergil/Dante/[Strider/Magneto/Doom]
    Vergil/Wesker/[Strider/Doom/Ammy]
    Vergil/Doom/[Strider/Ammy]
    blah blah.

    Zero is best on point, same with Viper.
    "Seth is like McDonald's. You can learn to make the same burger in 2 days as the person who's worked there for 5 years" ~ Dogura
  • KefKef Joined: Posts: 3,170
    Thanks for the reply , I love discussion for marvel
    See the reason I put the team like that is because I think point is vergil's best position, he can' deal with incoming mixups at all because of lack of air movement , so I put him first to fight bad matchups for zero and viper like morridoom or rushdown character. I then power super him and either tag to viper or dhc into zero. This way he have double jump to deal with incoming mix up and also provide a power up assist

    then I have zero second because have a safe incoming super, the invincible exchange tag in uppercut and also can dhc fromvergil pretty well, in game play zero can tod and also build meter for dark viper and vergil. The way I see it my team is actually zero/viper/vergil, vergil just go first for the power up super

    As for viper inthink she the ultimate end game character for umvc3 once people master her so input her last. Im just starting to learn her so I dont know much. But theory wise I think anchor is best for her. Also ger super will lead to dead character with either vergil or zero dhc

    Please more discussion

    Zero might have problems with MorriDoom, but not with Rushdown characters. His normals + Buster keep a lot of rushdown characters in check.

    The team itself is pretty bad. No top assist to complete the team leaves the 3 characters fighting pretty much on their own (best assist would be Rapid Slash). As Jolly said, drop either Viper or Zero, put an assist that complements Vergil and the other character and you have a great team. Zero/Vergil is actually a very nice duo and were even consider "BFs" at the beginning of Ultimate. Vergil can get pickups with Ryuenjin assist from ground throw and Zero can covert from air throws with rapid slash. Both have safe DHCs and can TOD. You also have two really nice CCs to work with.

    So, best possible teams:
    - Viper-y/Vergil-y/Strider-y
    - Zero-a/Vergil-y/Strider-y
    - Zero-a/Vergil-y/Doom-b
    - Viper-y/Zero-a/Doom-a or Dante-a
    [Very good team, but you don't have Jam Session which is Zero's best assist and also arguably Viper's best too. Plasma Beam allows Viper and Zero to get in easier than Jam Session, but Jam Session makes opponents struggle more with running away. Both Viper and Zero can kill of any random Jam Session hit or Plasma Beam confirm, so scaling shouldn't matter.]
    If you wanna play some MVC2/Xrd/SFV: PSN: I-kef-I SFV ID: I-kef-I
    From Miami, if you are in the area, don't be afraid to PM me for some locals.

    "Don't be nice, it's Marvel son, the origin of hatred. The game ain't about being nice. If you want to be nice play Tea Party Adventures. They go that shit on DS I heard." - Romneto
  • Shin-RonShin-Ron :D Joined: Posts: 654
    what makes vergil 2nd better than zero 2nd? just swords?
  • SettaiSettai Joined: Posts: 363
    I think Vergil/Strider is the most overrated duo in the game. The only reason people even considered it good is because it was the first team Chris G struggled against. That was back when if you killed Morrigan, you beat Chris G so XF to kill was fine. Also Chris wasn't used to dealing with the assist. Try that against Chris G now, or any other player who is competent with all 3 of their characters and you're going to get bopped. Padtrick is the only player who has had any type of success with the pair anyway. I can name at least 10 other assists that aid Vergil better, and I can name at least 10 characters that benefit from Vajra more than he does.
    MvC3 Offline Team: Morrigan/Magneto/Sentinel
    MvC3 Online Team: Wesker/Nova/Strider
    PSN: Settai - Proud pad player
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 111
    Thor/Strange/Doom is our troll best theory team. It's actually slightly better than yours.

    It's kinda funny that you did put the team together that you did. It's a good 3 point character team but that's about it. Other stuff explained above it seems. Get a stronger support character somewhere in there and you'll be good. Look at the characters towards the far right of the tier list for recommendations on support.

    Characters with strong assists that you need are in bold.
    etc.

    Thanks for the reply. I use to play mvc2 and really loved rush down but mvc3 and umvc3 gave me the longest period of character/team crisis. I really like vergil, viper, Dante, zero for a long time but all the decent team with them have good support characters (doom, mag, strider) that I know are valuable to a team but don't like individually.

    Vergil is really simple to play and have I feel really stylish combos, same with dante (while he's damage left much to be desired). Zero I think is a really top tier character but to me he somehow feel kinda slow. viper I think is a great character individually but bring nothing to any team (crappy assist, poor dhc, not safe incoming super, etc.) , but god damn it feel good to seismo and feint in people's face all day lol

    that's why I came up with this team, not because I think its a end game team but because it have my favorite characters in it, which make me want to practice, play and win with it. I struggle with wanting to use it for a long time for the obvious reason I list in the first post, but I love those characters.

    I like this thread but you guys always argue about who's top tier in a team base game, so I would like to start off the discussion in the new thread with just my favorite indulgence team. I know the title say tier thread, but i think we should rate team tiers now and that's why I just join the discussion now.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,830 mod
    Thanks for the reply. I use to play mvc2 and really loved rush down but mvc3 and umvc3 gave me the longest period of character/team crisis. I really like vergil, viper, Dante, zero for a long time but all the decent team with them have good support characters (doom, mag, strider) that I know are valuable to a team but don't like individually.

    Vergil is really simple to play and have I feel really stylish combos, same with dante (while he's damage left much to be desired). Zero I think is a really top tier character but to me he somehow feel kinda slow. viper I think is a great character individually but bring nothing to any team (crappy assist, poor dhc, not safe incoming super, etc.) , but god damn it feel good to seismo and feint in people's face all day lol

    that's why I came up with this team, not because I think its a end game team but because it have my favorite characters in it, which make me want to practice, play and win with it. I struggle with wanting to use it for a long time for the obvious reason I list in the first post, but I love those characters.

    I like this thread but you guys always argue about who's top tier in a team base game, so I would like to start off the discussion in the new thread with just my favorite indulgence team. I know the title say tier thread, but i think we should rate team tiers now and that's why I just join the discussion now.

    It's hard to rate team tiers ATM because there's so many more viable teams than there were in MVC2. You can like run off with a list of good teams but it would take forever to tier them based on that. That's why we just settle for who is strongest on point and who is strongest on support. Put characters together based on that and you have a really strong team from there. The game will get more matchup based as time goes on also (just like MVC2 did) so even if you find the MSP of the game...there's probably some team that counters it unless you're like Yipes or J.Wong good to overcome the counters consistently.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,830 mod
    I think Vergil/Strider is the most overrated duo in the game. The only reason people even considered it good is because it was the first team Chris G struggled against. That was back when if you killed Morrigan, you beat Chris G so XF to kill was fine. Also Chris wasn't used to dealing with the assist. Try that against Chris G now, or any other player who is competent with all 3 of their characters and you're going to get bopped. Padtrick is the only player who has had any type of success with the pair anyway. I can name at least 10 other assists that aid Vergil better, and I can name at least 10 characters that benefit from Vajra more than he does.

    I wouldn't go so fast with that.

    Drew Grimey got top 16 at Evo with Viper/Vergil/Strider and also swept through the first round of the AfterShock Cali team tourney with that team.

    About 20 minutes in starting.


    Strider assist is just very strong with characters that can move behind you quickly because they make it a bit harder to footsie and maneuver around the assist correctly. The lack of ability to lock down and the fact that it puts Strider's body out there can make the assist a liability. I do agree that Vergil/Strider is a bit overrated...but it's fast and it works and that's usually good enough in this game.

    It's probably the ultimate theory blow up theory team that's currently out or was recently used by a top player. If you don't have shit tight with your theory team it will blow it up.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 111
    Well, if you want a point Vergil team those two aren't really gonna help out as much as Vergil can help them.

    Good point Vergil teams would be like:
    Vergil/Dante/[Strider/Magneto/Doom]
    Vergil/Wesker/[Strider/Doom/Ammy]
    Vergil/Doom/[Strider/Ammy]
    blah blah.

    Zero is best on point, same with Viper.

    my favorite vergil point team is vergil(rapid slash)/Dante(ice)/Strider(vyjara, vijara... teleport kick assist lol). But it not really a vergil team but focus all on dante. Once vergil power up, dante can really wreck shop with strider assist and tod dhc behind him in vergil.

    I think the team scrub for this game is wesker/vergil/strider haha, if i have to play on pad I just use that team and its pretty easy fun. I actually consider maining that team bust wesker have poor dhc options into vergil.

    vergil/doom/strider - ugh doom... i hate using doom.. lol but really I don't like the vergil/doom pairing even though chris g and nerd josh had success with it. doom is just a assist to me. I rather have dante than doom. What do you think about vergil/doom pairing?
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 111
    Zero might have problems with MorriDoom, but not with Rushdown characters. His normals + Buster keep a lot of rushdown characters in check.

    The team itself is pretty bad. No top assist to complete the team leaves the 3 characters fighting pretty much on their own (best assist would be Rapid Slash). As Jolly said, drop either Viper or Zero, put an assist that complements Vergil and the other character and you have a great team. Zero/Vergil is actually a very nice duo and were even consider "BFs" at the beginning of Ultimate. Vergil can get pickups with Ryuenjin assist from ground throw and Zero can covert from air throws with rapid slash. Both have safe DHCs and can TOD. You also have two really nice CCs to work with.

    So, best possible teams:
    - Viper-y/Vergil-y/Strider-y
    - Zero-a/Vergil-y/Strider-y
    - Zero-a/Vergil-y/Doom-b
    - Viper-y/Zero-a/Doom-a or Dante-a
    [Very good team, but you don't have Jam Session which is Zero's best assist and also arguably Viper's best too. Plasma Beam allows Viper and Zero to get in easier than Jam Session, but Jam Session makes opponents struggle more with running away. Both Viper and Zero can kill of any random Jam Session hit or Plasma Beam confirm, so scaling shouldn't matter.]

    haha that's what my friend told me when i told he about that team , in fact he was like " that team is shit ( instead of "the shit", lol)

    I like the zero/vergil together alot for the same reasons you said ( ryujin combo extension for vergil and throw pick up for zero). I guess I would say the best assist would be strider. Marn seem to be doing really good with that team. But I think strider assist would not be such as a big as thread once people figure out how to avoid it. It does have problem tracking sometime, and it the opponent move forward, it whiffs.

    I like viper/vergil when i watch drewgrimey play, but viper have problem in a team base game don't you think? she have poor dhc in if she get snap out ( vergil get rape on incoming) and poor assist. I think that's why she's not doing so good in tournament, not because she's a bad character individually but because people have to build a team around her while she don't really give support to the other two characters. I think marlin pie's team circumvent this by have the doom/ammy paring(which viper do nothing for them other than extend combos) because the pairing don't need anything from viper. I don't know... I want to use viper but she's such a bad character in a team game.

    I like viper/zero/dante.. enough said
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 111
    It's hard to rate team tiers ATM because there's so many more viable teams than there were in MVC2. You can like run off with a list of good teams but it would take forever to tier them based on that. That's why we just settle for who is strongest on point and who is strongest on support. Put characters together based on that and you have a really strong team from there. The game will get more matchup based as time goes on also (just like MVC2 did) so even if you find the MSP of the game...there's probably some team that counters it unless you're like Yipes or J.Wong good to overcome the counters consistently.

    good reply , there is a lot of viable team in Umvc3 still.. which is very good because more characters and more variety, but man every hot team that come out I just want o use them. make it so hard to stick with a team.

    how about rating paring for now ? maybe we can compile a list of the best paring and then people and criss and cross and come up with more optimal team than the ones out now? for example, ( and I got this from you guys)
    dante/mag+ zero/dante = zero/dante/mag( or any order of that team)

    i think zero/dante/mag is as close to a all around theory top tier team as we have now.
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 111
    slightly better? Thor/bolts+strange DHCs would **** on those three characters played in that order, Viper/Zero/Vergil would be sooo much better. I dont like Strange/Doom though, mazio must disagree but i dont like it
    thor is good with bolts ? are there videos? ... lol I get it its a troll team but there must be videos showing how good it is
  • Lord_RaptorLord_Raptor Joined: Posts: 8,810
    I think Nova goes even with Viper. It all comes down to the assists. Viper has worse buttons than Nova, but better special moves. Once she's out of meter, Nova can force her to block. With meter Viper has the advantage, but when she's without Nova does. AFAIK.
    I thought the same thing, but Viper can actually outzone Nova easily if she runs out fo meter. Seismos hit at justt he right height to give Nova a hard approach and Blast cust off his ability to call assist to get in unless he gets out a Level 2 Pulse.
    Are you right? Are you READY!?
  • IcyieIcyie Joined: Posts: 257
    haha that's what my friend told me when i told he about that team , in fact he was like " that team is shit ( instead of "the shit", lol)

    I like the zero/vergil together alot for the same reasons you said ( ryujin combo extension for vergil and throw pick up for zero). I guess I would say the best assist would be strider. Marn seem to be doing really good with that team. But I think strider assist would not be such as a big as thread once people figure out how to avoid it. It does have problem tracking sometime, and it the opponent move forward, it whiffs.

    I like viper/vergil when i watch drewgrimey play, but viper have problem in a team base game don't you think? she have poor dhc in if she get snap out ( vergil get rape on incoming) and poor assist. I think that's why she's not doing so good in tournament, not because she's a bad character individually but because people have to build a team around her while she don't really give support to the other two characters. I think marlin pie's team circumvent this by have the doom/ammy paring(which viper do nothing for them other than extend combos) because the pairing don't need anything from viper. I don't know... I want to use viper but she's such a bad character in a team game.

    I like viper/zero/dante.. enough said

    The second paragraph caught my eye. Viper wouldn't be a bad character whether this was a team/solo game. She has tools to flood the screen, make herself safe, all while putting pressure on the opponent. And this being a team game, she has two assists behind her to make her even MORE safe and/or help her flood the screen. viper/jam session unblockables? Viper/Vajra? Both examples of how she becomes a hell of a lot better in a team game. Yes she has a poor DHC, but she's a point character at her core. Optimally, you'll just pressure the opponent enough until they make a mistake and you catch them in one, and then incoming mixups so your opponent just has to guess or die. The only reason why I think she's not winning any tournaments is the same thing people have been saying: nobody's playing her to her highest potential yet. And with her skill cap, it'll probably take a lot more time.
  • HyperShieldSlashHyperShieldSlash No Items, Little Mac Only, Final Destination Joined: Posts: 1,141
    Vergil/Disruptah/Hiding Missles. Discuss.
    Bious wrote: »
    What about when the ass on your old ass ass croaks?
    Rokmode wrote: »
    you are my favorite poster
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 111
    The second paragraph caught my eye. Viper wouldn't be a bad character whether this was a team/solo game. She has tools to flood the screen, make herself safe, all while putting pressure on the opponent. And this being a team game, she has two assists behind her to make her even MORE safe and/or help her flood the screen. viper/jam session unblockables? Viper/Vajra? Both examples of how she becomes a hell of a lot better in a team game. Yes she has a poor DHC, but she's a point character at her core. Optimally, you'll just pressure the opponent enough until they make a mistake and you catch them in one, and then incoming mixups so your opponent just has to guess or die. The only reason why I think she's not winning any tournaments is the same thing people have been saying: nobody's playing her to her highest potential yet. And with her skill cap, it'll probably take a lot more time.

    I agree with some parts. you are right with the right assists she is a monster. She can can people up that's for sure and even more so with the right assist. But my argument is that she don't bring much to the other characters in the team. DHC wise she can't TOD like zero lighting loop DHC or Vergil sword loop DHC. Assist wise, she have nothing abusive like dante jam session or gimmicky like morrigan meter gain assist(She can do OTG combo extension or highlow with burn kick, but that's about it). THC wise she can't do anything like ammy or dante super shenanigans . She don't have a multi-direction TAC infinite for meter or free damage. She is a solo character that gets better with people backing her up but don't assist the other characters in the team.

    Now back to you first point of her being a top tier flood/pressure character, that's true only when she's in play right? what if she get snap back? got chipped by morridoom, or lame out by zero, dorm or even modok! once she's out of play, even when she's still alive, she bring nothing to the table to help her teammates. Compare to other top tiers characters even if they are out of play they are still a threat because they provide godlike asssist( dante, mag) , have DHC TOD(vergil or zero) or can come back in safely with powerup/safe super (morrigan, ammy, vergil, dante, doom, etc.) but viper can't do any of that.

    So for viper people can simply snap her out or force her to tag and don't have to worry much about her making much difference for her team. This way people don't have to waste/use xfactor , multiple level, long combos, or hard set up to kill her. This give your opponent more resources and chance to deal with your other character while you might have to pop xfactor, super (morrigan(3 levels!) , sentinel) to come in safely or take back the momentum.

    team that succeed with viper always have to good duo behind her like ammy/doom, doom/strider, vergil/strider or dante/strider because these duo don't need her, while she need them to complement her game. You always here viper/strider or viper/dante being a good pair but never the other way around. not body is scare of a x factor less strider with viper backing him up right?

    with that say, do you think viper/dante/strider is the best viper team ?
  • IcyieIcyie Joined: Posts: 257
    Burning Kick, an almost full screen overhead assist vergil can (probably) get unblockables off of? Dante gets nice combos of off burning kick extension/mid combo. An otg assist in seismo for situational usage? This is all theory, but Viper shouldn't have to deal with getting snapped back much because she should be controlling the pace of the match, and getting the first hit. She doesn't NEED to bring good support to a team to not be a bad character, she's already a top character just in the point position. Some matchups are skewed in her favor just by having rapid seismos. Of course a character gets worse in a sub-optimal position, just like when your assist/anchor characters are snapped in.
  • AniMoneyAniMoney CFN ID: Airman Joined: Posts: 970
    What changed about Lariat from Vanilla to Ultimate? I know they removed the hard knockdown, but did they change anything else? It was super abused along with Tron assist but now nobody runs it, yet it still seems mostly the same? It's not like you need the knockdown to confirm off of it, you have plenty of time usually.
    CFN ID/Steam: Airman
    SFV mains: Cammy, R.Mika (for now)
    SFIV mains: Balrog, Cammy, whomever I feel like
    I overthink everything and get bopped.
  • RoboticRobotic Joined: Posts: 2,605
    It only has 1 frame of invincibility.
  • EnDaNickofTimeEnDaNickofTime Joined: Posts: 731
    it definitely has 33 frames of invincibility...
  • maziodynemaziodyne Demi-Fiend Joined: Posts: 7,748
    slightly better? Thor/bolts+strange DHCs would **** on those three characters played in that order, Viper/Zero/Vergil would be sooo much better. I dont like Strange/Doom though, mazio must disagree but i dont like it

    Strange/Doom is more hitbox flood-oriented, which I'm sure DevilJin at least would appreciate. THC is nothing to write home about and the mixups aren't as good as Strange/Dante or Strange/Dog, but nonetheless, it is still a very strong support shell for the point character. Strange's projectile game is very under-utilized at this point in the meta IMO-- that's why I messed around with it for a good while before switching to a more offensive/oppressive shell, Strange/Dante.
  • Dc1Dc1 learning umvc3 Joined: Posts: 111
    Burning Kick, an almost full screen overhead assist vergil can (probably) get unblockables off of? Dante gets nice combos of off burning kick extension/mid combo. An otg assist in seismo for situational usage? This is all theory, but Viper shouldn't have to deal with getting snapped back much because she should be controlling the pace of the match, and getting the first hit. She doesn't NEED to bring good support to a team to not be a bad character, she's already a top character just in the point position. Some matchups are skewed in her favor just by having rapid seismos. Of course a character gets worse in a sub-optimal position, just like when your assist/anchor characters are snapped in.

    Well you are talking about a ideal situation then. Of course there are characters that are great at getting the first hit (viper, zero, wolverine) but that's not always the case. People drop combos and while this game is very prone to one touch kill, as people play the game more, getting kill from first hit is just not as easy (learned match up, set ups).

    Can you guarantee first hit every game? Don't the other person also look for that first hit? What if you are playing a run away team like modok , or zoning team like morridoom, or dorm. Therefore, you should always consider what happen when your viper is going out of play

    yes, the whole point of snapping mechanism is to bring out the weaker link in the team. But in this case , if you get snap , not only are you forced in a weak character on your team, viper also then just sit in the back providing like you said 1) a almost full screen overhead assist that's prone to chicken guard, and 2) a mediocre otg assist that don't stun them that long compare to wesker and dante's otg assist. Very weak assist for the team.
  • IcyieIcyie Joined: Posts: 257
    That's like saying people would optimally always snap-in viper though. And getting first hit vs her. This argument goes both ways.
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