2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams

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  • DiscarnateDiscarnate Keep Calm and Don't Allow Them To Play Joined: Posts: 157
    *pic*

    Why don't we just tier based on how chiseled the character's face is?
    I'm just Fraudlike
    UMvC3: Spy May Stride (alt: Zero/Doom/Phoenix)
    Melee/Brawl: Peach (M alt: Young Link) (Brwl alt: Falco) SF4: Viper (alts: Cammy/Yun) SFxT: Cammy x Lili
    Sometimes I need to be alone, Doom don't kill my vibe. - Play Melee its a good game. - Learning Skullbabes
  • AceKillahAceKillah behind the scenes Joined: Posts: 15,813
    Why don't we just tier based on how chiseled the character's face is?

    Hulk best in game. Modok must be second since hes like....all face.
    "Smash is the Walmart of fighting games. There's nothing inherently wrong with Walmart, but damned if I don't want 95% of its clientele to burn to death." -Vynce
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 4,968
    Dat Ryu Brock Face
    FC:1864 9258 8415
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    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    rapid seismos is really good against task.

    really, REALLY good. it kinda destroys his keepaway game entirely, especially combined with strider. you have to go in as him against her, which risks ex seismo and ex tk and whatnot. also ex thunderknuckle makes jump arrows possibly lead to your death if they do guess ex tks.

    it's slightly in her favor but only because she forces him into a certain playstyle. i kinda feel he can still fight her up close but i can't put my finger on why. (better normals/close up poking game?)

    if you can get your seismic game going, then sure, she has a shot. but both his shield skills and akumas assist nullifies seismic hammers.
    Characters like Captain America, Task and Akuma force you to learn how to utilize focus. Focus is another heavily underutilized tactic because it's the main tool they gave her to beat footsies that she normally has trouble with. Especially characters with high priority non rapid fire normals or moves that generally absorb projectiles.

    The only other character that still has hyper armor IIRC is she hulk and she has to commit to a special move in order to get it.

    sting master beats focus and is too fast to react to
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • GREEKGREEK Ryu's been smoking that shit Joined: Posts: 563
    so what?
    Where are you going with this? Viper is bad without neutral assists. Strider was bad in marvel 2 without specific assists. What is your point exactly? For the record, morrigan has to be one of the most self-sufficient characters in this game because she has so much mobility, and she can convert from practically anywhere, and she can protect her approach similar to magneto.

    My point was that morrigan is not top 2 without doom and therefore not truly a top 2 character. Morri/doom is top 2 shell easy, morrigan compared to other characters as a character in marvel in a whole (on screen very good, assists not so good, self sufficiancy very solid, DHC very good, incoming good, anything else?) is not top 2.
    and strider without doom in MvC2 was heresy. Heck, even without Doom she's a great character with some of the best tools in the game.

    Even though she is attached to doom and even though she is a very great character it bugs me to think she is #2 in the game. She is not that overpowered.
    GUILTYGEARXRD HOLY SMOKES
  • CasualHeroCasualHero It's only random if it beat you. Joined: Posts: 266
    My point was that morrigan is not top 2 without doom and therefore not truly a top 2 character. Morri/doom is top 2 shell easy, morrigan compared to other characters as a character in marvel in a whole (on screen very good, assists not so good, self sufficiancy very solid, DHC very good, incoming good, anything else?) is not top 2.

    Dark Harmonizer is a great assist. I don't think she's a top 2 character if you look at just Morrigan, but she's a top 5 and I can see how opinion would decide to put her in the top 2.
    SSF4AE: Abel/Yun
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,797 mod
    if you can get your seismic game going, then sure, she has a shot. but both his shield skills and akumas assist nullifies seismic hammers.



    sting master beats focus and is too fast to react to

    Yeah capture state moves and throws are the only things that really bypass focus. It's the same reason why the Spider Man matchup can be troublesome for her because she may have more durability and what not, but all of Spiderman's ground projectiles duck under laser and if you aren't seismoing your ass off the capture state projectile grabs you.

    I'm not sure he can really do a lot post sting so you can play mind games with whether or not you are going to focus after seismo. If he goes for shield skills into spider sting and you blocked...that should be pretty good for you afterwards especially if you're still holding onto a meter and he doesn't have an assist ready. It's not like there's much else he can go into that will beat your focus other than sting so just jump block and either block sting while sitting on meter or just block whatever else he was doing. If he's close you'll have throw, H thunder knuckle and hopefully EX seismo or thunder knuckle ready.

    Blocking is not great but if you jump cancel block and hold on to EX seismo...you can always have that turn into something later. It's just one of those few matchups where you can't just spam shit and win.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Cheech WizardCheech Wizard Joined: Posts: 3,601
    Im glad people are finally starting to recognize hidden missiles xx photon array team super on incoming characters isnt a real mixup. If you push block every single hidden missile, Doom will get pushed away and unable to get a high low mixup.
    Slow and steady wins the race
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 8,306
    Im glad people are finally starting to recognize hidden missiles xx photon array team super on incoming characters isnt a real mixup. If you push block every single hidden missile, Doom will get pushed away and unable to get a high low mixup.
    too bad people will still be doing it a year from now
    game needs more vanilla doom players
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
    Youtube(random doom TAC help, doom combos, ammy stuff, shuma combos and tech): http://www.youtube.com/user/Clickclakmoo?feature=mhee Danke on shuma gorath: "He who sleeps but shouldn't have costed me 5 dollars."
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,797 mod
    too bad people will still be doing it a year from now
    game needs more vanilla doom players

    Yeah Clockwork shows what happens when you've actually been playing Doom since Vanilla and know that S dive stops working when people block and shoot you to hell with projectiles.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • maziodynemaziodyne Demi-Fiend Joined: Posts: 7,748
    I remember Vanilla Doom... S dive was that button you hardly pressed in neutral, and you actually had to know proper conversions. Good times.
  • GREEKGREEK Ryu's been smoking that shit Joined: Posts: 563
    Dark Harmonizer is a great assist. I don't think she's a top 2 character if you look at just Morrigan, but she's a top 5 and I can see how opinion would decide to put her in the top 2.

    I kinda suck at the game so I talk about the facts instead of make bogus opinions and I was silly thinking people did purely the same.
    GUILTYGEARXRD HOLY SMOKES
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,797 mod
    I kinda suck at the game so I talk about the facts instead of make bogus opinions and I was silly thinking people did purely the same.

    I don't think Morrigan is really even top 5 for sure yet...but if you go by what Chrisis rates characters by then yeah she would be like top 2 or 3. Which is basically the ability to kill while keeping the opponent from killing you. Viper, Zero and Morrigan are the best at those extremes.

    Dark Harmonizer is top 5 assist though because it improves the neutral of any character that is strengthened by supers. It basically gives you more supers, DHC's and THC's as an assist and if you watch what's been fucking people up in this game lately...that's pretty fucked up. It basically allows you to run around in the neutral and get a similar strengthening effect to landing a meter positive heavy combo or TAC. Which if he has Morrigan in top 5 support...that assist I'm sure is majority of the reason (on top of her great supers).

    Which means Morrigan herself has one of the best answers to defeating Morri Doom.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 8,306
    I kinda suck at the game so I talk about the facts instead of make bogus opinions and I was silly thinking people did purely the same.
    I don't think you know how a tier list works. None of us know the real facts. There is an inherent tier list, and our knowledge continues to grow in order to get as close to accurate as possible. These "bogus" opinions are a result of analyzing the game. They might not be right, but morrigan is very good. Characters should be tiered with their most optimal setup.
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
    Youtube(random doom TAC help, doom combos, ammy stuff, shuma combos and tech): http://www.youtube.com/user/Clickclakmoo?feature=mhee Danke on shuma gorath: "He who sleeps but shouldn't have costed me 5 dollars."
  • SteelgutteySteelguttey MoThErFuCkEr Joined: Posts: 729
    Is there a way to make a chrisis list? Like put your characters in order in a list for support and point and then your tier list is poofed out? If not someone should make that.
    XBL: Steelguttey
    UMVC3: Main: Amaterasu (Cold Star), Frank West (Shopping Cart), Dante (Jam Session)
  • Din0Din0 Retired Joined: Posts: 4,158
    Im glad people are finally starting to recognize hidden missiles xx photon array team super on incoming characters isnt a real mixup. If you push block every single hidden missile, Doom will get pushed away and unable to get a high low mixup.
    Is that why it never works for me but it looks like it works when I see it on stream :(
    Magneto/Doom/Dante | Magneto/Doom/Phoenix | Magneto/Morrigan/Doom
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  • Stryke BlaydeStryke Blayde Sword of Destruction Joined: Posts: 198
    Dark Harmonizer is top 5 assist though because it improves the neutral of any character that is strengthened by supers. It basically gives you more supers, DHC's and THC's as an assist and if you watch what's been fucking people up in this game lately...that's pretty fucked up. It basically allows you to run around in the neutral and get a similar strengthening effect to landing a meter positive heavy combo or TAC. Which if he has Morrigan in top 5 support...that assist I'm sure is majority of the reason (on top of her great supers).

    I wouldn't go that far. While it IS the best meter-building assist of 3, I wouldn't call it Top 5. For what it does, you're giving up a space control/combo extension/mix-up/etc. assist for a little extra meter. Meter's nice, but when you're limiting your options of having any combination of Hidden Missile/Jam Session/Cold Star/Beam Assists/etc., it means you have to work harder because you're down that one assist and that limits your options. I mean, I almost consider Shadow Blade to be Morrigan's best assist, just because I've seen it used as a pretty simple incoming tool and it actually work, and she could CC into a full combo with i-frames(IIRC).
    Don't even know my Marvel team anymore
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,797 mod
    I think people are so used to hidden missiles being unpushblockable as an assist that they forget you can push block it on point.
    I wouldn't go that far. While it IS the best meter-building assist of 3, I wouldn't call it Top 5. For what it does, you're giving up a space control/combo extension/mix-up/etc. assist for a little extra meter. Meter's nice, but when you're limiting your options of having any combination of Hidden Missile/Jam Session/Cold Star/Beam Assists/etc., it means you have to work harder because you're down that one assist and that limits your options. I mean, I almost consider Shadow Blade to be Morrigan's best assist, just because I've seen it used as a pretty simple incoming tool and it actually work, and she could CC into a full combo with i-frames(IIRC).

    You're not really giving up that much since it's basically the least active assist in the game (meaning it's basically the fastest assist in the game). It's very easy to add in when you're already winning a spacing game with your current assist and now all of a sudden you're considerably up on meters without even touching the opponent. By the time you use it your next assist is already ready again.

    Especially with how Alioune has had unnecessarily big success running away with neutral assistless Magneto and calling Morri till he gets 5...yeah. If we lose to Chris G's Morri Doom for 4 years straight...chalk up nobody trying that with an optimized shell up first as one of the reasons.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Stryke BlaydeStryke Blayde Sword of Destruction Joined: Posts: 198
    You're not really giving up that much since it's basically the least active assist in the game (meaning it's basically the fastest assist in the game). It's very easy to add in when you're already winning a spacing game with your current assist and now all of a sudden you're considerably up on meters without even touching the opponent. By the time you use it your next assist is already ready again.

    Especially with how Alioune has had unnecessarily big success running away with neutral assistless Magneto and calling Morri till he gets 5...yeah. If we lose to Chris G's Morri Doom for 4 years straight...chalk up nobody trying that with an optimized shell up first as one of the reasons.

    -when you're already winning-

    You can never guarantee that you'll always be in that position, and when you aren't it's not gonna do much at all for you GETTING to that point, aside from giving you more meter for installs/meter punishes. I'd much rather have an assist that would help me regardless of what point in the match it was than I would an assist that helps me when I'm already winning.

    As for Alioune(don't know this person, so I can't say if he/she's any good), that could just be attributed to people not knowing the keepaway-Magneto match-up, since most people I see use him are always rushing down.
    Don't even know my Marvel team anymore
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    Patiently awaiting BlazBlue: Chrono Phantasma
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,238
    I don't think Morrigan is really even top 5 for sure yet...but if you go by what Chrisis rates characters by then yeah she would be like top 2 or 3. Which is basically the ability to kill while keeping the opponent from killing you. Viper, Zero and Morrigan are the best at those extremes.

    Dark Harmonizer is top 5 assist though because it improves the neutral of any character that is strengthened by supers. It basically gives you more supers, DHC's and THC's as an assist and if you watch what's been fucking people up in this game lately...that's pretty fucked up. It basically allows you to run around in the neutral and get a similar strengthening effect to landing a meter positive heavy combo or TAC. Which if he has Morrigan in top 5 support...that assist I'm sure is majority of the reason (on top of her great supers).

    Which means Morrigan herself has one of the best answers to defeating Morri Doom.

    That's surprising Morrigan is shaping the meta right now and is the only character flooding the screen at the highest levels. I would think you'd be all up in her shit. What is she lacking from being top 5?
  • Cheech WizardCheech Wizard Joined: Posts: 3,601
    Morridoom would be alot easier to disect if more people bloody played it.

    Something I'd like to mention about Morrigan is because of her execution, she is pretty annoying to play in casuals. Like its hard to play her seriously for an extended amount of games just because of the constant perfect inputs you have to do. Shes fun to play but doing that amount of QCF QCB motions and plink dashes just gets tedious. I think thats partially why Chris G doesnt play her much in casuals.

    Some people need to just grind out matchups to learn them and need to play like 100 game sets but thats just not gonna realistically happen if you play morridoom. My main team is Morrigan/Dorm/Doom but after a while in casuals I just like to run doom/dorm/sent or hawkeye/doom/haggar because I dont have to really think with my hands anymore and I can just focus on the neutral and getting better blocks/defense/movement and improving projectile usage for lockdown/chip strings.

    Ok you can argue that with those wins from JRosa you can say that you dont have to be as good with morridoom as chris g is to win. But Morridoom still cant be learnt in a day like Vergil seems to have been. Ive seen PR Balrogs Morridoom and its pretty bad, whereas his vergil was getting wins within a week.
    Slow and steady wins the race
  • AceKillahAceKillah behind the scenes Joined: Posts: 15,813
    If Jrosa can do it anyone can. More people do need to play it so everyone can see how beatable it is.
    "Smash is the Walmart of fighting games. There's nothing inherently wrong with Walmart, but damned if I don't want 95% of its clientele to burn to death." -Vynce
  • DankeDanke Superior Tech. Joined: Posts: 1,302
    If Jrosa can do it anyone can. More people do need to play it so everyone can see how beatable it is.

    You are fucking blind if you don't realize he's a good player.
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  • AceKillahAceKillah behind the scenes Joined: Posts: 15,813
    You are fucking blind if you don't realize he's a good player.

    Never said he wasn't. He plays the shell well and abuses the dumb shit and most importantly wins. That being said his execution is still average/lacking and he's even said so himself. My execution is ass too and I can do her AV patterns fine. Granted I dont main her anymore but still.
    "Smash is the Walmart of fighting games. There's nothing inherently wrong with Walmart, but damned if I don't want 95% of its clientele to burn to death." -Vynce
  • piskooooopiskooooo anime swag Joined: Posts: 4,386
    Something I'd like to mention about Morrigan is because of her execution, she is pretty annoying to play in casuals. Like its hard to play her seriously for an extended amount of games just because of the constant perfect inputs you have to do. Shes fun to play but doing that amount of QCF QCB motions and plink dashes just gets tedious.

    Try learning Viper...
  • ironboy89ironboy89 Beep Boop Beep Joined: Posts: 4,660
    Man that nigga needs to put the mask back on. He looks a lot less cool without it.
    To be fair, I always imagined Doom's face looking more like this.
    http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs38/f/2008/347/5/b/Dr__Doom_The_Face_of_Evil_INKS_by_wrathofkhan.jpg
    Unlike Vega, Doom lost his beautiful face...
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,525
    You are fucking blind if you don't realize he's a good player.

    he is not a good player, his team just pretty much has a favorable matchup against 90% (or more) of the possible teams in the game. His execution sucks both in the neutral and in combos. Bad/inaccurate/erroneous play with a 7-3 or 8-2 favorable against your team is impossible to download in a FT3 set, thats why he does good in tournaments. Not saying that he cant improve, but right now he is not a good player, he's just playing a tournament gimmick, the fact that apparently nobody knows how to play against morrigan or how to punish bad vajra calls make the problem worse
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • Din0Din0 Retired Joined: Posts: 4,158
    K I'm gonna run his team and see if I can win my locals.
    Magneto/Doom/Dante | Magneto/Doom/Phoenix | Magneto/Morrigan/Doom
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  • AceKillahAceKillah behind the scenes Joined: Posts: 15,813
    I mean you have to give him some credit. He could stay the same skill level his is now and as long as people refuse to snap in Strider he'll keep winning.
    To be fair, I always imagined Doom's face looking more like this.
    http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs38/f/2008/347/5/b/Dr__Doom_The_Face_of_Evil_INKS_by_wrathofkhan.jpg
    Unlike Vega, Doom lost his beautiful face...

    Yeah me too. It fits his character (being super vain and all that) alot more. It would just be awkward as fuck if Doom removes his mask and he has one of these faces

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRLoVmrItCqmqYsjHFh3lf3tGMgd44O_iHdZl0r_WeAQQPWYjP95Q
    "Smash is the Walmart of fighting games. There's nothing inherently wrong with Walmart, but damned if I don't want 95% of its clientele to burn to death." -Vynce
  • SaitsuSaitsu When a Kid, Becomes a Legend Joined: Posts: 34,883
    To be fair, I always imagined Doom's face looking more like this.
    http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs38/f/2008/347/5/b/Dr__Doom_The_Face_of_Evil_INKS_by_wrathofkhan.jpg
    Unlike Vega, Doom lost his beautiful face...

    Do you guys actually know the context of the previous Doom unmasked picture that was posted?
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  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,525
    Do you guys actually know the context of the previous Doom unmasked picture that was posted?

    spiderman the 90 animated series, when doom steal the powers of the beyonder
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • SaitsuSaitsu When a Kid, Becomes a Legend Joined: Posts: 34,883
    spiderman the 90 animated series, when doom steal the powers of the beyonder

    I can't believe I'm uttering these words...you're right.
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  • SteelgutteySteelguttey MoThErFuCkEr Joined: Posts: 729
    I mean you have to give him some credit. He could stay the same skill level his is now and as long as people refuse to snap in Strider he'll keep winning.



    Yeah me too. It fits his character (being super vain and all that) alot more. It would just be awkward as fuck if Doom removes his mask and he has one of these faces
    yaranaika_manga_anime_desktop_1440x900_wallpaper-374731.png
    XBL: Steelguttey
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  • HyperShieldSlashHyperShieldSlash No Items, Little Mac Only, Final Destination Joined: Posts: 1,141
    Dooooooooooooooooooom and Vergil are criminally underplayed...
    Bious wrote: »
    What about when the ass on your old ass ass croaks?
    Rokmode wrote: »
    you are my favorite poster
  • GREEKGREEK Ryu's been smoking that shit Joined: Posts: 563
    I don't think you know how a tier list works. None of us know the real facts. There is an inherent tier list, and our knowledge continues to grow in order to get as close to accurate as possible. These "bogus" opinions are a result of analyzing the game. They might not be right, but morrigan is very good. Characters should be tiered with their most optimal setup.

    Rokmode I get you don't like my attitude, that's great, seriously, But things aren't the way they sounded. I meant MY bogus opinions. And yes morrigan is a very good character.
    GUILTYGEARXRD HOLY SMOKES
  • The DukeThe Duke Joined: Posts: 14,564
    To be fair, I always imagined Doom's face looking more like this.
    http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs38/f/2008/347/5/b/Dr__Doom_The_Face_of_Evil_INKS_by_wrathofkhan.jpg
    Unlike Vega, Doom lost his beautiful face...
    I believe Doom has had his face back since at least Future Foundation unless I'm missing something
    Victor_Von_Doom_The_Children%27s_Crusade.png
  • AceKillahAceKillah behind the scenes Joined: Posts: 15,813
    Nerd.
    "Smash is the Walmart of fighting games. There's nothing inherently wrong with Walmart, but damned if I don't want 95% of its clientele to burn to death." -Vynce
  • HyperShieldSlashHyperShieldSlash No Items, Little Mac Only, Final Destination Joined: Posts: 1,141
    I wish Dooooooooooooooooooom had an easy TAC infinite... I can do his corner infinite, but I don't use TAC's, because Raw Tags are cooooooooool
    Bious wrote: »
    What about when the ass on your old ass ass croaks?
    Rokmode wrote: »
    you are my favorite poster
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I wish Dooooooooooooooooooom had an easy TAC infinite... I can do his corner infinite, but I don't use TAC's, because Raw Tags are cooooooooool

    you're trying too hard, stfu.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 8,306
    Rokmode I get you don't like my attitude, that's great, seriously, But things aren't the way they sounded. I meant MY bogus opinions. And yes morrigan is a very good character.
    Sorry, misunderstanding then
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