2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams

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  • RagingDemonStormRagingDemonStorm The power of elevation Joined: Posts: 3,182
    Tron's best team is either

    Tron/Frank/Dante
    Tron/Sentinel/Dante
    Tron/Strange/Doom

    Abegen's eam has synergy but only when he's at an advantage (like a lot of teams). Though his Tron and She-Hulk are great. His Thor is bad, very bad.

    Thor/Strange/X23???

    Its like your trying to please and anger the thread at the same time
    CVS2 Akuma\Geese\whoevers top tier in that groove
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,525
    Thor/Strange/X23???

    eww no thanks.
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • pat728pat728 The best Doom Joined: Posts: 734
    x23 is bad. Can we stop pretending she's secretly good? She is terrible in the neutral game and as a result has severely bad matchups against Zero/anything, Mag/Doom, and Morrigan/Doom. The unblockable is useless if you aren't winning in the neutral. If you opt to let an actually good character be first then she is dead weight as a support with bad assists, DHCs, THCs, no TAC infinite, and no safe DHC in. Her unblockable game is good when you can get it, but has too much cost attached to it in that x23 is bad and she requires specific teams(usually involving other bad characters, or having a subpar backup plan when your point dies).
    UMVC3: Morrigan/Doom/Arthur, Morrigan/Vergil/Strider
    Midwest
    Youtube Channel
  • Mr SicksMr Sicks Glutton for Punishment Joined: Posts: 87

    I'd like to bring up Hawkeye's role in the current meta of the game. Is he irrelevant at this point, strictly a counter-pick point perhaps or is his only value that he owns Doom's soul for free?? I personally believe he has some point teams that can compete with the high tiers and of all the point characters I have played he stands alone as the most annoying and frustrating to fight. With all the TAC infinite possibilities in the game his damage is fixable and rapid slash is a fantastic assist for him anyway giving him sword loop dhc's. He is essentially dead as an anchor however...
    umvc3: Chris/Doom/Dante----Haggar/Dorm/Dante----Nem/Dante/Sent Low Tier Whore
    I play Nemesis....because its frustrating enough losing at this game but its even worse when you lose to a guy pointing Nemesis
  • wnewne Fucking purple. Joined: Posts: 3,357
    hawkeye..... dead anchor


    flocker.... irrelevant?
    I'm wet.
  • emcemc Air Throw Joined: Posts: 686
    edited June 2014
    bloodymess wrote: »
    On the subject of Jen, I actually think that's the one character wherein ability and character use coincide as far as how far he can go with one. His Tron is strong but Tron as a character is Bottom 5 IMO whereas Thor is better than Tron/arguably better than Jen but from what I can tell he's basically H Mighty Spark fluff. Still think that Jen/Hawkeye/Strider is her best team but yeah that's also IMO as well.

    jen's best team is most definitely not with hawkeye, get that idea out of your head now, his triple arrows which is the optimal assist for hawkeye, doesn't give jen optimal relaunch tech and his DHC is mediocre at best, plus he's meter hungry and it kind of ruins your plan with strider.

    Jen/doom/strider is optimal because beam is so godlike for her, but the better team is actually jen/IM/strider because you get guard break unblockables and still have a godlike beam and a TAC infinite at your disposal, but just because it optimizes jen doesn't mean it's a good team because you know, you still have to play IM the king of dropped combos. Doom builds a shit load of meter, has really good damage off a command grab hard tag from jen, easily converts off vajra, I played jen/doom/strider for a long time and it's by far the most stable team for her.

    I think a good team for jenny that is a bit harder to play, is jen/strange/vergil, you get hard tags and DHC options into strange, so that solves the damage problem and you get SATAN, who is godlike with strange, bolts is a top tier assist for jen, gives her sick conversions and command grab set ups plus you can use her overhead as a bonus. She even has relaunch tech with bolts that is godlike, I have it recorded, I just need to edit a video and upload it, but I'm waiting for more footage (it's gonna be a big cmv that involves all the teams that work best for jen)
  • emcemc Air Throw Joined: Posts: 686
    edited June 2014
    willseless wrote: »
    I can't do FoF loops, and I'm rusty with Morrigan combos, so I can't test the scaling and how many reps of the loop you can do. Maybe someone can do something out of this. You have to walk back a little bit to the second shadow to hit, and DHC as soon as the shadows start popping.



    Nevermind the screaming, it's my cockatiel.

    it works, you probably can get about 3 air reps (so like 7-8 IP, FoF, IP total) before it drops, but it's not worth it because you lose the missile extension which gives you all the damage and morrigan doesn't give any extensions for strange, although you could use meter assist to bring you up to a level 3 for a ToD but now you have no meter for morrigan. Overall, not worth it imo, better to do the tenboss hard tag.
  • Mr SicksMr Sicks Glutton for Punishment Joined: Posts: 87
    edited June 2014

    flocker.... irrelevant?

    Last time I watched Flocker he was getting steamrolled with hawk, switched to Dante and won the tournament. He's the best hawk in the world IMO so that's a pretty telling sign....
    umvc3: Chris/Doom/Dante----Haggar/Dorm/Dante----Nem/Dante/Sent Low Tier Whore
    I play Nemesis....because its frustrating enough losing at this game but its even worse when you lose to a guy pointing Nemesis
  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 3,037
    edited June 2014
    Wait, I've only seen Tenboss tag from Morrigan to Strange using Nova's pulse assist. Did I miss another one?

    I think Tron's best team definitely has Dante on it, but I don't agree that she doesn't need a horizontal assist. Her approach is actually really unsafe without a beam or something, preferably one that has a lot of block/hitstun.

    Abegen's just gotta find something that fits his playstyle and is also a good team. Maybe a few good teams; counterpicking goes a long way. Again, we'll see...


    discovigilante
    UMvC3:
    Nova β Doom α/ɣ Ammy β
    Nova β Strange ɣ Ammy β
    Ammy β Doom α Dante α

    SF5: Bison, a lil Birdie, waiting on Juri

    Stuff I should play more
    Aquapazza: Chizuru
    Guilty Gear Xrd: Sin
    UNIBEL: Hyde
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,112
    Tron strange Dante or fra Frank Dante take your pick.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,525
    from 1 to OP, how OP is mighty hurricane?
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    It depends on the match up, not as solid against Viper, Dante, Joe, or level 3+ Frank, amazing against most of the cast.
    Isis is something shiny that likes water.
  • p0tat0 5aladp0tat0 5alad I like orange. Joined: Posts: 1,278
    edited June 2014
    "Amazing"?!? How??? No troll, blow my mind with some theory shit
    UMvC3 - Spencer/Task/Skrull
    AE - Abel
  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    edited June 2014
    "Amazing"?!? How??? No troll, blow my mind with some theory shit

    This isn't Mighty Thunder or Mighty Tornado. It's still a 1 frame air okay command throw. If you get someone to block missiles in the air, congrats you can set up unblockables. Thor actually has the tools to set up people taking to the air with a fast, high durability ground projectile and high priority, projectile ignoring armored + on block space control tool.

    I think anti air command throws when properly applied in a game where sometimes your only option is to eat *IE setting up a situation with air plinks to be on the opposite side of someone in the air, wait for block stun to end, and go for command throw late so advancing guard won't eat it, and you need to use a special/hyper to turn around so most things won't have proper start up to keep you from getting thrown. Especially terrifying with missiles, but there are other assists that set it up really well too. (Vertical arrows and the like.)

    I don't think this is terribly theory, especially when complimented by missiles.

    I hope that explanation helps a bit, I'm sure Serp could explain much more about the values of this command throw.

    Also, as a mix up when it's low or command throw it's not a reactable mix up you have to guess. Any mix up that is outside of human reaction time is potentially good (Though needs something to make it safe)
    Isis is something shiny that likes water.
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 8,306
    I didn't realize people updated the srk umvc3 wiki. That's good to hear. My videos are on there as well
    neat
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
    Youtube(random doom TAC help, doom combos, ammy stuff, shuma combos and tech): http://www.youtube.com/user/Clickclakmoo?feature=mhee Danke on shuma gorath: "He who sleeps but shouldn't have costed me 5 dollars."
  • p0tat0 5aladp0tat0 5alad I like orange. Joined: Posts: 1,278
    Thor has the best whiffed command grab animation cause he just flexes. I just wish it built meter for style points, then he'd be in my top 20
    UMvC3 - Spencer/Task/Skrull
    AE - Abel
  • bloodymessbloodymess Joined: Posts: 1,916
    Merkyl999x wrote: »
    bloodymess wrote: »
    @Merkyl999x‌ I swear to God X-23 is secret top tier man. All she needs is two mix-ups and she wins.

    All she has to do is close the match out because you let magneto or some other top tier character hit you. Still disagree about the secret top tier thing, though. She's a solid engine to base a team around, but she really can't do much against the top 5~10 characters if she has to fight them in a fair match. She's really good at not letting fair happen, though.

    If you're basing tier placement off only her point play , even with ideal assists, she's only high-mid tier. If you're basing her tier placement on dirt naps, low assist (if your character can set up unblockables with it)/alpha counter, and xf abuse I think she's a solid high tier, even with her deficiencies as a point.

    Also, @p0tat0 5alad‌, you must be hella bored to have typed all that up (still appreciate it). Only note would be that you can't pick up with estaka (not even needed since we have the dash jab pickup anyways, but still.)

    I generally base a character's worth/placement off the sum of their parts. In which case X-23 has a helluva lot going for her. For one, she literally just needs two mix-ups to win a game. Get a hit on dude #1, finish the plate, land the mix-up on dude #2, XFC and finish the plate, Dirt Nap on dude #3 and win.

    Point play isn't too bad. Second/third best walk speed in the game makes sure she sticks to whoever she's up against first and has some deceptive mobility. Option selects between QCB dash/assist calls, command grab (which is pretty good as far as command grabs go), IOH light into down jH -> light Talon, and by some God's grace ankle cutter plus projectile/extension assist if they're not blocking low. Pretty good to DHC out of since WXP gets invincibility as well.

    As far as off-field play goes she's... okay. Ankle Slice is pretty much what you'd be sticking with, I imagine since OTG that doesn't use wall/ground bounce that will also hit low and set up unblockables for other characters. If she could use the Talon follow up from her Scythe assist when she CC's that'd be pretty good. Alas, Capcom are chodes. I don't know how well she works as an anchor but considering her movement is among the best when ranking non flight characters I'm guessing it's like activating ludicrous speed.

    To be honest, I wouldn't mind learning X-23. Seems like a character that has broken shit and nobody realizes it.
    Mr Sicks wrote: »
    I'd like to bring up Hawkeye's role in the current meta of the game. Is he irrelevant at this point, strictly a counter-pick point perhaps or is his only value that he owns Doom's soul for free?? I personally believe he has some point teams that can compete with the high tiers and of all the point characters I have played he stands alone as the most annoying and frustrating to fight. With all the TAC infinite possibilities in the game his damage is fixable and rapid slash is a fantastic assist for him anyway giving him sword loop dhc's. He is essentially dead as an anchor however...

    Hawkeye is far from irrelevant considering he was anchor for the winning team at EVO lol

    N'aw but let's check this shit out. Great assist, great zoning game, good normals, builds meter fairly well, has some pretty fantastic hypers as far as DHC'ing goes, and can deal with some popular characters rather efficiently. This is in a nutshell though.
    emc wrote: »
    jen's best team is most definitely not with hawkeye, get that idea out of your head now, his triple arrows which is the optimal assist for hawkeye, doesn't give jen optimal relaunch tech and his DHC is mediocre at best, plus he's meter hungry and it kind of ruins your plan with strider.

    I'm using poison tip. Then again this is my C team so lol what do I know. I'll disagree with Hawkeye being meter hungry, however- given the right assist he can fill the screen up with enough shit to build off chip. Been screwing with his QCB maneuvers and am practically orgasmic over theory applications between Vajra and Torpedo.
    also I'm making it a point to avoid doom because doom is literally cancer

    I think Tron's best team definitely has Dante on it, but I don't agree that she doesn't need a horizontal assist. Her approach is actually really unsafe without a beam or something, preferably one that has a lot of block/hitstun.

    Drill has a fair amount of hitstun, or at least enough to prevent someone from punishing it as soon as you land. If we want to make it an issue though, we can probably use something like drones, bolts of ballsack, or shopping cart. Fuck, Tron/Frank/Dante sounds absolutely retarded on paper.
  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 3,037
    I won't profess to know all matchups vs this character but Nova can hit instant air drill from full screen with slide. Regular-height jump drill is vulnerable to anti-air jabs. Ground drill you can throw or plink back and punish with slide. Having a horizontal assist allows her to use these tools much more freely.

    And yeah as if any Frank/Dante team wasn't obnoxious to begin with, put the hardest-to-kill character in the game in front of them, with a guaranteed level 5 mechanic... ugh.

    In terms of optimizing Tron, I have played a guy online who does crazy mixups with her and makes her look like a god at the start of the round. But that's in lag and delay so I'm not sure what punishes of mine aren't working lol.
    discovigilante
    UMvC3:
    Nova β Doom α/ɣ Ammy β
    Nova β Strange ɣ Ammy β
    Ammy β Doom α Dante α

    SF5: Bison, a lil Birdie, waiting on Juri

    Stuff I should play more
    Aquapazza: Chizuru
    Guilty Gear Xrd: Sin
    UNIBEL: Hyde
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,112
    I mentioned this before, because I play tron from time to time because she is really fun to play but, her normals have vergil swords and dorm M'S properties of nullifying projectiles so you can do things like stand H to block projectiles while calling your strange or doom beam, drill in behind safely and apply pressure. Pretty fun to do also gustaff is medium durability which is pretty easy to use against slower projectiles. I also believe n boulder is medium durability aswell.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • tabtab the impossible dream Joined: Posts: 1,993
    trons hurtbox lets taskmaster do the shock sting loop for freeeeeeeeeeeee on her (her and shuma)

    also everything she does is punishable more or less, either by ground or airthrow

    then you just snap whatever chars she has behind her and lol xf2/3 tron
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,881
    Funny, Thor/Dok is actually not as bad of a combination as it seems. My fellow Brodok rocked Thor/Dok/Doom the other day.

    Side note....Strange/Dorm/Rocket are strangely (get it) a motherfucker to fight.
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    edited June 2014
    pat728 wrote: »
    x23 is bad. Can we stop pretending she's secretly good? She is terrible in the neutral game and as a result has severely bad matchups against Zero/anything, Mag/Doom, and Morrigan/Doom. The unblockable is useless if you aren't winning in the neutral. If you opt to let an actually good character be first then she is dead weight as a support with bad assists, DHCs, THCs, no TAC infinite, and no safe DHC in. Her unblockable game is good when you can get it, but has too much cost attached to it in that x23 is bad and she requires specific teams(usually involving other bad characters, or having a subpar backup plan when your point dies).

    Involving other bad characters? Dante(JS)/X-23 is a self-contained 300% engine now that Dante has a reliable (albeit slow) infinite. mags, viper, vergil, morrigan, zero, and a ton of worse characters all run strong point backed with dante(JS). Vergil gets helm breaker and ground throw conversions from both of her assists, mags gets free unblockable resets off throws off her LowTG, Dante can use both assists well, and every character in the game benefits from having a strong alpha counter. As far as getting her in safely, once XF2 is available it stops being a problem since super > WXP > XF mixup starts the pressure in your favor. Outside of XF, CC LowTG xx Talon H before landing (or CC xx invincible super ala hard drive), CC DP into full combo/escape. With Dante, hysteric xx DT > hard tag (or WXP if they sj'd in reaction to the hysteric.)

    With DHCs, Weapon X-Prime (her cinematic super) is great for Dante since it always gives you the full 4 seconds after a kill so you can hard tag back to dante and set up acid rain incomings.
    bloodymess wrote: »
    Merkyl999x wrote: »
    bloodymess wrote: »
    @Merkyl999x‌ I swear to God X-23 is secret top tier man. All she needs is two mix-ups and she wins.

    All she has to do is close the match out because you let magneto or some other top tier character hit you. Still disagree about the secret top tier thing, though. She's a solid engine to base a team around, but she really can't do much against the top 5~10 characters if she has to fight them in a fair match. She's really good at not letting fair happen, though.

    If you're basing tier placement off only her point play , even with ideal assists, she's only high-mid tier. If you're basing her tier placement on dirt naps, low assist (if your character can set up unblockables with it)/alpha counter, and xf abuse I think she's a solid high tier, even with her deficiencies as a point.

    Also, @p0tat0 5alad‌, you must be hella bored to have typed all that up (still appreciate it). Only note would be that you can't pick up with estaka (not even needed since we have the dash jab pickup anyways, but still.)
    I generally base a character's worth/placement off the sum of their parts. In which case X-23 has a helluva lot going for her. For one, she literally just needs two mix-ups to win a game. Get a hit on dude #1, finish the plate, land the mix-up on dude #2, XFC and finish the plate, Dirt Nap on dude #3 and win.

    Point play isn't too bad. Second/third best walk speed in the game makes sure she sticks to whoever she's up against first and has some deceptive mobility. Option selects between QCB dash/assist calls, command grab (which is pretty good as far as command grabs go), IOH light into down jH -> light Talon, and by some God's grace ankle cutter plus projectile/extension assist if they're not blocking low. Pretty good to DHC out of since WXP gets invincibility as well.

    As far as off-field play goes she's... okay. Ankle Slice is pretty much what you'd be sticking with, I imagine since OTG that doesn't use wall/ground bounce that will also hit low and set up unblockables for other characters. If she could use the Talon follow up from her Scythe assist when she CC's that'd be pretty good. Alas, Capcom are chodes. I don't know how well she works as an anchor but considering her movement is among the best when ranking non flight characters I'm guessing it's like activating ludicrous speed.

    To be honest, I wouldn't mind learning X-23. Seems like a character that has broken shit and nobody realizes it.

    I'm fairly certain the few of us that play X-23 are aware of how broken her shit is. We're also aware of her limitations and weaknesses. I don't disagree about X23 being able to win a match off 2 mixups (her damage output and meter gain with 2 assist extensions is pretty nuts) BUT her optimal extension assists are typically on sub-par characters, characters that don't help her double dirt nap gameplan, or assists that don't cover her gaps in neutral. I played her exclusively on point for quite a while and there are matchups against the top tiers that genuinely suck. You can't win a game in 2 mixups if you can't get the first hit reliably.

    Why she IS broken though, is because she gives top tier characters wins off 2 hits (or 1 hit 1 TAC) without the limitations of having her on point. Almost all of the top tier with only 1 optimal assist are better than X23 with 2 assists. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is. Not having any projectile outside of assist calls really kills her neutral options when dealing with the top 10.

    There are a few bits in your post that are a bit inaccurate...

    Walk speed doesn't matter at start of match because she doesn't want to be point blank. She can't raw IOH any of the top 10 (depending on your top 10 list), she can't convert off ground throws without specific assists (e.g. plink calling HM or balloon bomb before the throw attempt.) Her mixup game is mostly based around her mobility, not hi/low/throw stuff ala wolvie. Her plink os throw~backdash, however, is amazing in those situations and means she doesn't have to deal with the first 5 seconds against characters like wolvie and hulk.

    She can't IOH with j.L. She uses j.M and it only works on the taller portion of the cast, though you can set up fuzzies decently well to cover the average height characters but it telegraphs really hard, I honestly have more success just going hi>lo or empty jump low and faking the fuzzy altogether.

    All of her charge options (Neck/Ankle/Decapitating Slice) all lose to reaction chicken block. It's not a mixup when you can react to the animation the same way regardless of the option. You can call assists to cover them and end with frame advantage to go for a left/right or dash over dH mixup but they don't typically do work themselves.

    I'm not blown away with her OTG, honestly. You have to be really strong with your points to abuse the low properly and most of the top tiers don't need an OTG assist anyways. The wierd cancel property on CC is nice, but the lack of invincibility makes it harder to use.

    She CAN use her talon attacks out of her DP assist on CC, that's why it's good. Dante actually abuses it pretty well as a neutral tool, too. Dash in s.M/H+assist xx teleport is good for mixups as well as AA. The game is getting too stupid to not have a strong alpha counter IMO and that's the main reason I run it. Also, once you get 2+ bars in neutral you can CC and do at least 900k meterless, build 2 meters, and dirt nap the next character. (Team specifics make a huge difference. Mags/Dante/X23 is 900k with XF1 used and builds 2 meters after the CC and neither of those assists are great extenders.)
    UMvC3: Magneto(EMD)/ X-23(CS)/Dante(JS)
    300%, Welcome to America.
    R.I.P. Iron Man/Rocket Raccoon
  • -Limit--Limit- I play Smash. Why am I here? Joined: Posts: 369
    So how does the dirtnap game go, in theory? You tac to kill character 1, dirtnap, and do you ankle slice and x factor for the pickup then?

    Im honestly not sure on how it's supposed to go because I usually skipped posts when x23 was involved but now im more curious as of late
    Twitter: @ yoCassius
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    UMvC3: X/Doom/Dante
    USF4: Poison?

  • CorkyjayCorkyjay Joined: Posts: 288
    I was messing with a few different variations of X-23 dirt nap theorys and I came up with these
    1)Infinite 1st charcter,Dirt Nap X-Factor Second Character,Dirt Nap combo after dirt nap Kill but this would only apply to team with a low health anchor character really
    2)X-Factor First Character,Dirt Nap Infinite Second Character,Dirt Nap Double DHC last character i think this would only apply to high health first characters,front heavy teams, or Problematic Match-ups
    3)Hit Into Infinite,Dirt Nap Hit into Infinite, and Dirt Nap into X-Factor this would probably only be done vs characters that all run with high health
    X-23 i feel is serverally underrated and i only can hope that people find a consistent way to play her i mean now she doesn't even need a assist to combo after dirt nap now she can do it solo. The only problem with that is trying to find a way to consistently do it because i feel as if though combo after dirt nap solo is rather inconstistent but possible

    *This is just a theory i had i actually dont play the character just messed around with her in Training mode
  • sjohnst2sjohnst2 Joined: Posts: 1,496
    I think it goes TAC to kill, dirtnap, pickup into xfactor so you kill while building back meter.
    Dirtnap, and catch them before they hit the ground. Then full combo with assist extension and xfactor damage to end it.

    Dante TAC is godlike for this plan because you WILL build the 5 bars needed.
  • tabtab the impossible dream Joined: Posts: 1,993
    edited June 2014
    dirt nap game goes: hit char 1, tac, do infinite, dirtnap, ASSIST extend for 3rd meter, xfc on last couple of hits for extension to bring to 1mil+ dmg meterless or so

    dirt nap, kill the 3rd char with xfed up dmg + extensions

    the most important and hardest part of dirt nap gameplan is getting the timing right on meaty dirtnap correct 100% of the time. the 2nd is converting off the dirtnap assistless (you can dash up st.l/m or something like that) if you want even more meter/dmg

    the guy who said if fchamp/neo played x23 they'd win more, idk about that. i feel like a lot of their gameplay/team comes down to the doom/phoenix part of the team and then that's way better for jean than it is for x23. x23 is more stable as a point char gameplan deal, but far less stable on comebacks because it's totally possible vs common teams she won't build enough meter to dirt nap the 3rd guy after she dirt naps the 2nd one unless she does the hard assistless conversion. also because she can't force advantageous situations vs good characters/teams

    x23 is good against bad characters because in xf2/3 she only really needs one good chance to straight up win, but vs. good characters she'll never get that chance because they don't have to expose themselves in the same way as bad chars have to do at some point bc of their movement and screen coverage. and bad chars tend to have more health than good chars, so her chances of getting more meter off the hits are also much greater.

    overall id rather just pick zero dante vergil and had a more stable comeback factor and similar dumb gameplan, which is what i said a while back when shoultz was talking about the potential between zero mixups on incoming and guaranteed guard breaks/incoming unblockables

    but god she is unbelievably mind bogglingly irritating to fight as an anchor when you play mediocre chars because you will just get thrown or something and then facepalm really hard as your entire team melts while you just sit there. like it might as well fade to black after the char kill when she dirt naps and then just go immediately to the char select screen
  • LTPLTP Joined: Posts: 832
    Honestly I just feel feel that Dorm/Doom controls matchups better than Strange/Doom but that may just be that he feels more natural to me. (Which is hilarious because I play a rush down MODOK.) In all honesty even MODOK/Vergil/Doom kills off of most confirms and at best you get jammed. If you're a machine like my sparring partner with infinites its a FACT. DOK really doesn't need two major screen control assists. He only needs missiles.

    DOK/Morri/Doom has an insane amount of pluses going for it
    DOK/DOOM/Vergil is self explanatory
    If you want team asshole DOK?

    This is my boys wonky ass team, but he got infinites
    DOK/DOOM/HAGGAR -
    DOK/Dorm/HAGGAR -
    It's hard for me to say whether or not Dok/Dorm/Doom controls matchups better than Dok/Doom/Strange or Dok/Strange/Doom, but Dorm helps cover the more important ones better. HBR into Chaotic Flame punishes Spiral Swords and Dorm has a better time dealing with Morrigan than Strange. However, in terms of being a MODOK centered team, I believe that Dok/Doom/Strange delivers more. You get a projectile counter super that you can DHC into, an underutilized crossover counter punish tool in the form of air SoV, and you get a better selection of assists (Bolts and Eye vs Dark Hole). Both Bolts and Eye extend combos nicely and let you connect jamming bombs using only those assists (Dark Hole as well). Bolts is obviously great in neutral, and Eye is much better in neutral than Dark Hole, since it persists and eats up projectiles. Eye is such a great assist for keeping characters that want to get in out. One unique benefit of Dark Hole is that it's one of the best assists for setting up unblockables midscreen.

    Dok/Doom/Vergil and Dok/Doom/Haggar are both great Dok teams as well. Dok/Morri/Doom is also a great team, but I personally don't really like it much, as it's a team built around Morrigan, not Dok. If you use missiles on that team to get a hit with Dok, this tends to be in a situation where you'll be using j.S in your confirm, meaning that you can't really go for anything in the followup combo except for a TAC to Morrigan or setup Morrigan with AV, if you have the meter. TACs aren't bad, but I'd prefer to just have a combo that kills without it or at least be able to throw in a jamming bomb in any situation.
    UMvC3: MODOK/Doom/Strange
    P4AU: S.Naoto, Adachi
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/MythicVerbosity
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,881
    LTP wrote: »
    Honestly I just feel feel that Dorm/Doom controls matchups better than Strange/Doom but that may just be that he feels more natural to me. (Which is hilarious because I play a rush down MODOK.) In all honesty even MODOK/Vergil/Doom kills off of most confirms and at best you get jammed. If you're a machine like my sparring partner with infinites its a FACT. DOK really doesn't need two major screen control assists. He only needs missiles.

    DOK/Morri/Doom has an insane amount of pluses going for it
    DOK/DOOM/Vergil is self explanatory
    If you want team asshole DOK?

    This is my boys wonky ass team, but he got infinites
    DOK/DOOM/HAGGAR -
    DOK/Dorm/HAGGAR -
    It's hard for me to say whether or not Dok/Dorm/Doom controls matchups better than Dok/Doom/Strange or Dok/Strange/Doom, but Dorm helps cover the more important ones better. HBR into Chaotic Flame punishes Spiral Swords and Dorm has a better time dealing with Morrigan than Strange. However, in terms of being a MODOK centered team, I believe that Dok/Doom/Strange delivers more. You get a projectile counter super that you can DHC into, an underutilized crossover counter punish tool in the form of air SoV, and you get a better selection of assists (Bolts and Eye vs Dark Hole). Both Bolts and Eye extend combos nicely and let you connect jamming bombs using only those assists (Dark Hole as well). Bolts is obviously great in neutral, and Eye is much better in neutral than Dark Hole, since it persists and eats up projectiles. Eye is such a great assist for keeping characters that want to get in out. One unique benefit of Dark Hole is that it's one of the best assists for setting up unblockables midscreen.

    Dok/Doom/Vergil and Dok/Doom/Haggar are both great Dok teams as well. Dok/Morri/Doom is also a great team, but I personally don't really like it much, as it's a team built around Morrigan, not Dok. If you use missiles on that team to get a hit with Dok, this tends to be in a situation where you'll be using j.S in your confirm, meaning that you can't really go for anything in the followup combo except for a TAC to Morrigan or setup Morrigan with AV, if you have the meter. TACs aren't bad, but I'd prefer to just have a combo that kills without it or at least be able to throw in a jamming bomb in any situation.

    I actually don't use J.S as my primary confirm very often but then again that's partiallly because I use my the turn around in the air technique that Mixup mentioned. I never was a huge fan of S as my confirm because I kind of stink at my kill combos that use S in the beginning. I've had great success really on my staggered DOK staircase. It's pretty easy, commonly looks like baby kicks, to B, to H, air dash H, flight H, air dash H to ground.

    Anyway I think Darkhole is excellent for a DOK that plays more midscreen with an aggressive stance. Unblockable setups are way too long ignored or even attempted by the few DOK players I know. I've been integrating a lot of them into my gameplay and it really changes his game. I'll agree that bolts/SOV gives more neutral control (for just about everyone in the game) but I prefer the option of the Stalking flame DHC to the projectile counter. Bolts is good in some matchups but in others I think he's out there too long. When Metroid (not that he's the best DOK by any stretch) used him he'd get him killed calling him to much.

    On DOK/MORRI/DOOM I disagree. People will go out of their way to get through DOK and get to Morrigan which keeps DOK alive longer. If you've got a great DOK this creates a debacle for them. Also Morrigan gives DOK some great DHC options most importantly an invincible DHC. Now besides the infinite DOK has if you JAM a character and set it up so they fall into Astral Vision jammed? Its just way to sexy to ignore. Also Harmonizer allows for HBR shenanigans that most people haven't experimented with Hidden Missiles. I think it's just as much a DOK team as Morrigan team. It's really a really, really solid team. I personally run it with Shadow Blade but maybe it is a Morrigan team people just fear my DOK more LOL!

    In all honesty though I'm a huge fan of starring Morrigan first for MORR/DOK/DOOM. I get my TAC in and load up MAX POWER. Having bullet hell with a fully loaded DOK in the middle is ridiculous.
  • MILFMILF Level... Joined: Posts: 1,561
    Rokmode wrote: »
    Tron could have 800k and still be the hardest to kill because of her stupid fucking body

    worse than shuma's imo

    Another reason why they are besties

    Get Your Hands Off My Penis
    F.A.N.G

    Oh! My my! It looks like you're already choking...2 minutes...I'll finish you...In 2 minutes
    ▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬
    Vega & F.A.N.G
    ▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬
    King of everything
    :smokin:
    ...back to basic. SSF4, UMVC3, TK, MK, SFA, ST, BR. bored
  • wnewne Fucking purple. Joined: Posts: 3,357
    wait what's the turn around glitch mixup mentioned? / how to do
    I'm wet.
  • phantasyphantasy Smash Journeyman Joined: Posts: 8,558
    edited June 2014
    with magneto (after crossing up) you do a special move in the opposite direction with 2 buttons and you'll get a turnaround special move, the 2 buttons cancels the special into a dash, you can do this in multiple directions with clever enough inputs

    storm modok ironman doom also have this
    youtube mvci/sfv/etc. twitter @delbuster
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,525
    Funny, Thor/Dok is actually not as bad of a combination as it seems. My fellow Brodok rocked Thor/Dok/Doom the other day.

    Side note....Strange/Dorm/Rocket are strangely (get it) a motherfucker to fight.

    do Thor + modok have any incoming unblockable?
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
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