2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams

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  • -Limit--Limit- I play Smash. Why am I here? Joined: Posts: 369
    Im pretty sure I had doom cc into level 3 work before on swords

    this was while using beam though and it also costs 4 bars
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  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 I'm dreaming of a green Christmas Joined: Posts: 4,277
    Rokmode wrote: »
    UnSaxon51 wrote: »
    If the video that @discovigilante‌ put up is any indication, you gotta include Missiles in the list.
    idk if that makes it as good as the invincible dp ccs that can be mashed during vergil blockstringers
    Fair enough. It wouldn't be the best in the list of CCs, but it's overall usefulness combined with the fact that he can apparently cancel it into ANYTHING is still pretty impressive.
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  • bloodymessbloodymess Joined: Posts: 1,916
    bloodymess wrote: »


    Unless there was some sort of satanic hotfix meant to nerf an already weak character all of Nem's SRK moves have armor on them.

    None of Nemesis assists have armor and I'm pretty sure that goes for his CC's too.
    Different properties bloodymisinformed.

    I'm gonna need to check this shit out in training mode but if that's the case then meh. For what it's worth I also thought that the assist versions of Plasma Beam/Psionic Blaster still caused soft knockdown like their point versions.

  • emcemc Air Throw Joined: Posts: 686
    edited June 2014
    She-hulks clothesline has a point of armor, I have a feeling it sucks as a CC, but I should really test to see if it retains that armor. What's dumb is the assist doesn't even cause a wall bounce like it should, but it crumples grounded opponents which makes it the only assist in the game that can do that.
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    edited June 2014
    -Limit- wrote: »
    Im pretty sure I had doom cc into level 3 work before on swords

    this was while using beam though and it also costs 4 bars

    I'm fairly certain that all characters have no hitbox before grounded and you can buffer a super to get i-frames right as you land. There's been a few wierd cases where I've seen Iron Mans' RB assist cancelled immediately into PC win in situations where you wouldn't expect it to (lucky hitbox placement in that 2 frame window before the PC burst?).

    Not completely relevant since I play with the invincible CC, but I'll cancel into her run super on reaction to people trying to super the CC (e.g. Hulk Gamma Crushing in reaction to my CC.) Not sure if the invincibility from the DP holds over, but Weapon X-Prime doesn't have frame-1 invincibility and it will still get out of situations like that.

    Something that I can't ever recall using and don't know if it's possible. Can you alpha counter > immediate i-frame grounded super > DHC into powerup or some other comboable super? I don't think there's any limitation on assist calls or DHCs after the CC, I've just never had a reason to burn that much bar at once. (E.G. Alpha counter a blocked chaotic flame into X23's DP > cancel landing into WXP > DHC DT with Dante > combo?)
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  • wnewne Fucking purple. Joined: Posts: 3,357
    i think iron fist can also crumple grounded opponents as an assist but that has 0 range and you must be high to pick iron fist

    jw, has anyone worked with different confirms off of the mindless doom cr.L > hard kick xx dash jump? besides the full schedule one

    I think i found one that lets you pick what side you take them on

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  • CorkyjayCorkyjay Joined: Posts: 288
    bloodymess wrote: »
    On the subject of alpha counters we should keep in mind that typical follow-up commands, i.e. Spider Sting second hit or Vergil teleport cancel, can't be used if recent knowledge proves correct, as well as moves that are normally cancelable like Shippuga. This doesn't include stuff like jump/flight (I think) cancels or shit that can already be combo'd off of.

    That said, I'd like to point out a couple of options that are almost unheard of or underutilized because there's a superior option as far as assists go:

    Haggar's Violent Ax- Yeah, Lariat exists. But you can't combo off a CC Lariat unless the opponent is high enough off the ground for you to sneak a crouching heavy in. Violent Ax, though? Yeah that'll combo. Can even open up for happy birthday opportunities, which is something Lariat cannot do. It's main issue has to do as an assist since it's... yeah, not very good. Hardly not the worst, but still not good.

    Joe's Groovy Uppercut- Joe is sorta iffy as far as assists go. Bomb might be his best one if you can manage to set it up properly and Voomerang is probably the most reliable all around. But Groovy Uppercut can allow combos off a CC if you manage and Joe, despite appearances, is fairly good with capitalizing on a happy birthday opportunity. Even as an assist it's not AWFUL, even though it's mostly restricted to extensions.

    Nemesis' Launcher Slam- Well, it's got armor for starters. That's a big reason people pick this assist to begin with. Another being it's a reliable combo extension for a lot of characters that don't have inherent ground bounces. That said, as a CC it's also pretty damn good since Nem can combo off it.

    Chris' Grenade/Combination Punch- Seriously, why the fuck aren't these seen more? I mean Gun Fire is good for an assist but holy shit these two still serve purposes that still warrant attention. Specifically for CC's, since both allow Chris to combo off a successful counter and Combo Punch is just so STUPID for that purpose.

    Viper's Thunder Knuckle- I'm not 100% certain but I think Viper can cancel her knuckle as a CC. Don't quote me on this because I use her about as often as people use Iron Fist nowadays.

    I would list Iron Fist's assists in this list as well but his issue hardly begins with underused CC assists.

    Vipers Thunder Knuckle can be cancled and hit confirmed into Staircase loops its a little more time trick then what it would normaly be but it is possible

    What about Hulks Gamma Charges? I figure those would be some good CC if your in the middle of pressure especially the anti air one
  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 3,037
    Fwiw She-Hulk's torpedo and clothesline assist can both be canceled into Runner's Start which is kinda cool. As in, it's cool that you can spend a bar to maybe do a combo that nets like 600k
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  • wnewne Fucking purple. Joined: Posts: 3,357
    edited June 2014
    i'm not sure if anyone else has found this out w. doom

    cr.L > hard kick xx dash, jump , immediate j.M(1) ** This is a variation of FS's which was to dash, jump, ADU, j.M (2), butter gun, rejump convert

    from there if you ADD, you can jump up again and do j.L, j.M (2), j.M (2), H footdive xx ADDF, cr.M into whatever

    you can also ADDF from the immediate j.M and jump up to do the same conversion, but from the opposite side



    ** note: jumping straight up and doing j.M will not connect on max range hard kick's
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  • SnatcherSnatcher The True Enemy Joined: Posts: 920 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I always do c.L, f.H xx dash, jump up (or up forward), j.M (1), delay j.f.H xx ADDF, and some Sehmehnov reps to reach the corner. Like, 670k and full corner carry.
  • wnewne Fucking purple. Joined: Posts: 3,357
    i have no idea what those reps are but im assuming its some variation of j.L, H footdive, ADDF cr.M st.S, then repeat

    corner carry with doom is pretty much guaranteed with most confirms anyways....
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  • JuuMJuuM Danke where yo at Joined: Posts: 1,615
    edited June 2014
    Duck made a video about it a while back.

    Post edited by JuuM on
  • JohnPauliukJohnPauliuk Joined: Posts: 421
    I use either Ryu's Hadoken or SRK for CCs. I enjoy CCing into him then Denjin Cancel for a big punish. I can constistantly do this again Mag's Shockwave Super.
  • emcemc Air Throw Joined: Posts: 686
    i was thinking, use a crumple assist as an alpha counter, then hard tag in a better character to do damage.

    also, what do you guys think about the point strider vs. morrigan match up?
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 8,306
    edited June 2014
    random but after seeing how ludicrous doom/dante thc is in terms of damage, I decided to try it out with doom ammy

    what I've found does less damage because of how okami shuffle juggles them, but it still kills pretty much all of the relevant cast and looks pretty +builds more meter than the doom dante one

    doom/ammy players go explore

    what I'm using atm (there's probably something more optimal)
    missile, thc, super jump, s footdive, add, missile, flight, plasma beam h, missile hits, s footdive, j plasma beam h super
    there is probably more whacky stuff you can do, but I'm too lazy to look for it



    I guess in addition to ccs, thcs are still kind of underused as well
    Post edited by Rokmode on
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  • CorkyjayCorkyjay Joined: Posts: 288
    Doom Dante i defenitly feel is one of the best THC to do for damage you can literally kill off any hit into a 2 bar THC and doom builds 2 bars really easy.Not to mention the fact that you can use it similar to doom ammy as a lockdown for mix-ups.You can also loop it multiple times which makes it even more damaging if you do hard kick in the middle of the million dollars.
  • p0tat0 5aladp0tat0 5alad I like orange. Joined: Posts: 1,278
    I plan on using the Doom/Dante shell but while learning Doom I've been using Skrull in back. I can do that THC but off Inferno I can only sj S footdive add H Plasma super

    I'm pretty sure you do that THC with Doom/Dorm too and get Doom/Dante levels of extension
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  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,940
    Someone explain the Strange/Ammy THC to me, I've never really understood what was so great about it.
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  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    edited June 2014
    emc wrote: »
    strange/ammy for most underrated THC in the game.
    I think Spencer/IM is the best THC it hits before the flash, fully invincible, + on block enough to get mix ups, can kill on hit, works just fine for happy B-days, punishes full screen 1 frame after flash. Danke was on the good stuff with this one, Jill also works really well for this as opposed to Spencer since her mix ups are better.

    I have a scumbag THC set up that I think is icky, but takes more resources to get done, but that's because it's scumbag, with Zero get any normal blocked, THC with Dante (or if you have someone in between them you need 4 meters.) XFC immediately Zero's normal into Dante's guns is a block string then command dash through them Sougenmu, unblockable, works anywhere on the screen you can make someone block 5C on the ground, if they XFC any time once its started bullets are still hitting so they can't jump and get unblockabled, if they XF then invulnerable move Zero and Dante are on opposite sides so Million dollars still hits and I think you get a combo against the vast majority sans really long animation ones like For the Princess and Gamma Crush.

    I use it because I mash harmonizer and sometimes I don't want to fight an anchor. ~>,.,.>;~

    @Potato_Salad Dorm's Chaotic flame doesn't last as long and doesn't have the same properties as Million dollars, it's less good but still pretty wonderful, the IM THC is actually better for neutral and similar for combos since it hits full screen frame 1 and Doom gets to finish photons early to get in for free (Really important in some match ups) and get combos on hit. Then again that means playing Tony, and you know what he says about the rest of the cast "They're great!"

    @<;insert_name_here> You get SoV which hits directly after flash which combos with shuffle. On block you recover fast enough to get teleport mix ups and you can use exploding graces in order to OTG after derpy teleport left rights.
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  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,120
    The only thing I hate about using Dante thc is you are vulnerable when he ia prepping that last bullet. I have seen to many homies grabbed out there mixups.

    I doom missiles is one great partner for Dante. on my point Dante team Missiles helps out a lot with locking down zoning mixups combos(you automatically should gain 2 bars if you play missiles with Dante when you land a confirm)Really great shell in both orders very interchangeable. Buffs a lot of teams neutral wise. I think rayray should run that shell with his magneto he would definitely win a major running mags doom Dante
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  • NMumw1017NMumw1017 Joined: Posts: 774
    I bet a Jill/Ammy THC would be ridiculous. I had considered Jill/Trish (peekaboo)/Ammy (cold star) a while ago. The mixup and reset potential is there, but that is a lot of low damage on one team.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,120
    No it isnt, all 3 have infinites so one touc equals dead characters
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  • Cee DizzyCee Dizzy The shit I don't like Joined: Posts: 3,408
    Someone explain the Strange/Ammy THC to me, I've never really understood what was so great about it.

    Spell of Vishanti ends quickly. When you activate the THC, you get left/teleport mixups that are very hard to react to. If they get hit, you can combo, if they block, you get safe 50/50s. Blah blah blah
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  • MILFMILF Level... Joined: Posts: 1,561
    Ammy and half the cast can pull up random shit to beat various teams set up

    Doom/Ammy Cap/Ammy Dorm/Ammy Viper/Ammy Wessker/Ammy Firebrand/Ammy Jill/Ammy etc

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  • tabtab the impossible dream Joined: Posts: 1,993
    ifbpwnstar wrote: »
    I tried playing my "1 hour of basic combo practice" Zero randomly for a few hours just to see how hard the game was from his perspective...expecting some level of difficulty mastering his neutral...nope. Stupid free movement, crossups, priority, and plus frames whenever I want...and dear fucking god the safety. I can't express my hatred of all Zero players trying to tell me he's a difficult character to learn...I have never played such an easy character to just dominate the neutral from the start...even Wolverine I had to think of how to at least get in.

    There is nothing newsworthy or beneficial for conversation in this post...I'm just expressing a deep confirmation of how fraud this fuck is with all my salt.

    But for the sake of conversation...there is no reason not to play zero ever in this game if you just want to win...like literally no reason beyond "I refuse to use zero". Chris G, JWong, etc... should all be using Zero point.

    [/pointlessRant]

    ya, zero is braindead and i'm 99% certain a zmc bot could win tournaments

    also i found a deadpool unscale where you don't have to adjust for weight/height classes but then randomly on some chars it's weird with no relation as to why
  • CorkyjayCorkyjay Joined: Posts: 288
    Chrisis wrote: »
    emc wrote: »
    strange/ammy for most underrated THC in the game.
    I think Spencer/IM is the best THC it hits before the flash, fully invincible, + on block enough to get mix ups, can kill on hit, works just fine for happy B-days, punishes full screen 1 frame after flash. Danke was on the good stuff with this one, Jill also works really well for this as opposed to Spencer since her mix ups are better.

    i would say that Jill dante is better for jill for 2 reasons. More time and Easier to confirm off.I defenitly would say that Spencer IronMan is a very good and highly underrated thc and the pairing outside of it does give you quite a few options in nuetral
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    edited June 2014
    Mags/Dante is better than Jill/Dante IMO. If only slightly. (Mainly because you're playing Mags instead of Jill...just sayin')
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  • wnewne Fucking purple. Joined: Posts: 3,357
    edited June 2014
    i think he was just comparing thc's for jill

    dante as a THC partner isn't bad especially if you're already hitting them. Dante's thc hyper in neutral isn't as good as IM's unless you have something like magnetic shockwave that forces them to hit the ground and block

    but ofc, iron man comes with iron man
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  • bloodymessbloodymess Joined: Posts: 1,916
    MILF wrote: »
    Ammy and half the cast can pull up random shit to beat various teams set up

    Doom/Ammy Cap/Ammy Dorm/Ammy Viper/Ammy Wessker/Ammy Firebrand/Ammy Jill/Ammy etc

    Haggar/Ammy work as well since the belly flop OTGs and ends before the shuffle does. Nobody really knows that because Ammy/Haggar is a pretty weird shell. There's some other shells that can work like a "follow my lead" style THC and some other stuff that can self OTG and have the shuffle pick up afterwards. All of it safe and more often than not abusable.
    tab wrote: »
    also i found a deadpool unscale where you don't have to adjust for weight/height classes but then randomly on some chars it's weird with no relation as to why

    *is interested*

    Am trying out some Deadpool in an attempt to work off this low tier binge and my current team is just Deadpool/Arthur/Dormammu. Daggers is fucking stupid when golden and Dark Hole makes for pick-ups after quick work even easier. Only issue being whether or not to use Katana-rama or Quick Work as an assist.
  • tabtab the impossible dream Joined: Posts: 1,993
    it's basically just a slight modification of the quick work->teleport variant.

    instead of doing teleport L/H and dashing up, you do teleport M and hold crouch and do a cr.m and launch at a very specific crossunder height/distance and it works across various weight classes for the j.h->bolo timing, except for the big bodies and randomly deadpool and dr. doom (not sure what's up w this)
  • ifbpwnstarifbpwnstar Lab Monster Joined: Posts: 1,215
    Cap/Ammy...I just got done explaining why that is bad to another player.

    Cap's got mad gaps in his game...he ain't got space for what little Ammy has to offer him. If you wanna abuse the THC you have WAY better options that can make use of her as an assist as well or THC's that help Cap more...like Dante!
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  • bloodymessbloodymess Joined: Posts: 1,916
    ifbpwnstar wrote: »
    Cap/Ammy...I just got done explaining why that is bad to another player.

    Cap's got mad gaps in his game...he ain't got space for what little Ammy has to offer him. If you wanna abuse the THC you have WAY better options that can make use of her as an assist as well or THC's that help Cap more...like Dante!

    Both of Cap's supers have too much hitstop while he's on point for any sort of THC nonsense to be had. Even Spencer doesn't have too much leniency after a THC since Bionic Arm has enough hitstop to warrant maybe two or three opportunities for a free mix-up. A damn shame too because Cap would really benefit from a long-lasting hyper and Shuffle might be the longest lasting in the game, except maybe... like, Bioweapon Assault or Hellfire Maelstrom.
  • ifbpwnstarifbpwnstar Lab Monster Joined: Posts: 1,215
    Cap can make use of a few THCs and either get free pressure mix ups or full combo conversions: Dante and RR are good Cap assists and offer those luxuries. You get a free high low with that, then a mix up of the final shot. If they hit you get a full launch combo or charging star extensions. They're also good to snipe full screen when you see a careless assist call. The best part is, cap moves away from dante/rr, making efforts of the point to punish him limited since the bullets cover him from most physical attacks. So, super jumping + assist calls can mean a free THC punish.
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