2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams

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  • forte95forte95 Buster Cannoneer Joined: Posts: 546
    wne wrote: »

    dante as a THC partner isn't bad especially if you're already hitting them. Dante's thc hyper in neutral isn't as good as IM's unless you have something like magnetic shockwave that forces them to hit the ground and block

    Mag/Dante THC is nice but if you have air mobility you can pushblock Shockwave in the air then dash up xx fly xx plink or air teleport to cross over so you won't get hit by Dante super and still maybe get to punish Magneto. It's still nice against people without air mobility or people you catch on the ground because of the multiple fuzzy mixups.
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  • RagingDemonStormRagingDemonStorm The power of elevation Joined: Posts: 3,182
    Doesn't Hyper Charging Star lose to a universal 2 frame move? Hence we have come full circle in the tier thread discussion.
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  • bloodymessbloodymess Joined: Posts: 1,916
    Doesn't Hyper Charging Star lose to a universal 2 frame move? Hence we have come full circle in the tier thread discussion.

    Hyper Charging Star loses to regular Charging Star

    I wish I was kidding when I mention I've grabbed Cap out of HCS as Haggar
    ifbpwnstar wrote: »
    Cap can make use of a few THCs and either get free pressure mix ups or full combo conversions: Dante and RR are good Cap assists and offer those luxuries. You get a free high low with that, then a mix up of the final shot. If they hit you get a full launch combo or charging star extensions. They're also good to snipe full screen when you see a careless assist call. The best part is, cap moves away from dante/rr, making efforts of the point to punish him limited since the bullets cover him from most physical attacks. So, super jumping + assist calls can mean a free THC punish.

    Ah, you mean off a whiffed Charging Star. I know that discounting hitstop, i.e. as an off point THC or whiffed, it ends pretty fast. I could see that being a thing
  • ifbpwnstarifbpwnstar Lab Monster Joined: Posts: 1,215
    bloodymess wrote: »
    Doesn't Hyper Charging Star lose to a universal 2 frame move? Hence we have come full circle in the tier thread discussion.

    Hyper Charging Star loses to regular Charging Star

    I wish I was kidding when I mention I've grabbed Cap out of HCS as Haggar
    ifbpwnstar wrote: »
    Cap can make use of a few THCs and either get free pressure mix ups or full combo conversions: Dante and RR are good Cap assists and offer those luxuries. You get a free high low with that, then a mix up of the final shot. If they hit you get a full launch combo or charging star extensions. They're also good to snipe full screen when you see a careless assist call. The best part is, cap moves away from dante/rr, making efforts of the point to punish him limited since the bullets cover him from most physical attacks. So, super jumping + assist calls can mean a free THC punish.

    Ah, you mean off a whiffed Charging Star. I know that discounting hitstop, i.e. as an off point THC or whiffed, it ends pretty fast. I could see that being a thing

    No you can full on do it on block. If they try to punch you out of it the bullets save you. One thing to also do is not mash at first, then start mashing as Cap recovers. It will extend Dante/RRs end but no longer feed hits to Cap's. But yeah, you can just throw it out there if you have Hyper CS as your THC...just don't do it point blank where both can be punished. Cap/RR and Cap/Dante are awesome THC friends.

    But yeah...it makes me VERY sad how many things charging star and hyper charging star lose to...it really showcases how little fucks were given to balancing this game. Lvl 1 buster > charging star (+50 frames and Cap comes to him...i wish i were kidding), LvL 3 hyper > Hyper Charging star...what the god damn fuck Capcom.
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  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 I'm dreaming of a green Christmas Joined: Posts: 4,273
    ifbpwnstar wrote: »
    LvL 3 hyper > Hyper Charging star...what the god damn fuck Capcom.

    Considering that you're spending 2 extra meters, this doesn't really bother me much. Buster beating regular Charging Star is bullshit, though.
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  • ifbpwnstarifbpwnstar Lab Monster Joined: Posts: 1,215
    edited June 2014
    UnSaxon51 wrote: »
    ifbpwnstar wrote: »
    LvL 3 hyper > Hyper Charging star...what the god damn fuck Capcom.

    Considering that you're spending 2 extra meters, this doesn't really bother me much. Buster beating regular Charging Star is bullshit, though.

    Spending more meter shouldn't justify that something wins. Plenty of lvl 3's lose to lvl 1's and normals. With Lvl 3's you're getting unscaled damage in combos. I can beat Doom's lvl 3 with taskmasters lvl 1 counter and Cap's lvl 3 loses to just about everything in the game. The BS part here is that Hyper CS beats every lvl 3 projectile in the game...except for some fucking reason zeros...meaning if he has 3 meter I can't Hyper CS him EVER. It's fucking retarded. It really just looks like another case of Capcom spent 5 minutes balancing Zero and accidentally gave him the most obscure unintended buffs possible.

    (Once again I cannot stress my hatred for that character existing in this game)
    Post edited by ifbpwnstar on
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  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 8,306
    edited June 2014
    if you don't have an otg, ammy thcs can be difficult to combo off, but it's doable

    When I used to play around with magneto/ammy a lot, I comboed off the thc most of the time. From there, you can just go into ammy infinite if your execution is good enough. It is hard if they purposely (or even accidentally) get hit near the end though because that can really throw you off.


    Dante THCs are very good, but they are designed more for fullscreen punishes. Good players can easily avoid them if you do them "randomly" whereas ammy variants tend to be more difficult to avoid. Overall, I think ammy thcs are better, but dante obviously has the overall better assist.
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  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,119
    edited June 2014
    In other news most people in this thread know I play strider strange Dante team. I hadn't had a system to practice on in like a month an a half just got one and found a combo that does over 1.079 million in the corner and builds 2.5 bars and I haven't optimized it yet. I can probably make it build 3 bars and get over 1.1 million. That was one personal problem I had with my team is Tod with xfactor unless I was using Dante. I am going to try to make a raw tag combo that can expand on this later.

    If anyone can find a consistent way to setup a raw tag with strider that tags into Dante or strange please share that with me.

    Edit:combo uses 2 bars by the way
    Post edited by charlie88 on
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  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    Why is Morrigan's level 3 not higher as one of the few air invincible moves in the game?
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  • forte95forte95 Buster Cannoneer Joined: Posts: 546
    Why is Magneto's more well-rounded than Zero's? Magneto's doesn't have invincible startup, and the startup is pretty noticeable. Plus RR's level 3 should be on the same tier as Magneto's since what they both do best is track the opponent and hit almost instantly, but should be less well-rounded cause it only hits up until a certain height off the floor.

    Dormammu's level 3 is invincible startup and 0-frame if the opponent is right next to him. I think it deserves to go higher up, but it's not too well-rounded cause it's only really useful up close and in combos. Iron Man's level 3 is similar, so it should be on the same tier as Dormammu's, except more well-rounded because you can safely use it from farther away.

    Also, why is Arthur's level 3 bottom tier? It's full screen and has tons of invincibility. It's more deserving of the top tier spot than Magneto's or Zero's. It's not like it's low damage, either, so it's just as useful for combos.

    Isn't Ryu's level 3 a combo-only move? That deals less damage than Denjin mode tatsu super, which only costs 2 bars? How come it's in the middle? Shouldn't it be at the bottom?

    Wesker's should be at the same tier as Dante's, more or less. Just less well-rounded because it doesn't go as far and doesn't have proj invincibility post-flash.
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  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 3,037
    Can you explain the axes? I don't understand the arrangement at all lol
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  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,525
    dr strange lv3 is garbo, but dormammu's is definitely better than Dr Doom
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • bloodymessbloodymess Joined: Posts: 1,916
    Chrisis wrote: »
    Why is Morrigan's level 3 not higher as one of the few air invincible moves in the game?

    Can't combo out of it except for Shadow Servant and it subtracts three potential Astral Vision uses. I don't think Morrigan is necessarily meter-dependant but she definitely loves it.
    forte95 wrote: »
    Why is Magneto's more well-rounded than Zero's? Magneto's doesn't have invincible startup, and the startup is pretty noticeable. Plus RR's level 3 should be on the same tier as Magneto's since what they both do best is track the opponent and hit almost instantly, but should be less well-rounded cause it only hits up until a certain height off the floor.

    Dormammu's level 3 is invincible startup and 0-frame if the opponent is right next to him. I think it deserves to go higher up, but it's not too well-rounded cause it's only really useful up close and in combos. Iron Man's level 3 is similar, so it should be on the same tier as Dormammu's, except more well-rounded because you can safely use it from farther away.

    Also, why is Arthur's level 3 bottom tier? It's full screen and has tons of invincibility. It's more deserving of the top tier spot than Magneto's or Zero's. It's not like it's low damage, either, so it's just as useful for combos.

    Isn't Ryu's level 3 a combo-only move? That deals less damage than Denjin mode tatsu super, which only costs 2 bars? How come it's in the middle? Shouldn't it be at the bottom?

    Wesker's should be at the same tier as Dante's, more or less. Just less well-rounded because it doesn't go as far and doesn't have proj invincibility post-flash.

    Magneto's hits full-screen/with tracking property, allows him to self combo afterward, is one of the hardest-hitting level 3's in the game, and comes with a character that is also good. Zero's might cover full-screen but won't track, is the weakest Level 3 of them all, and doesn't allow him to self-combo unless he's in a corner. That's not to detract from Genmu Zero obviously but still.

    As far as RR's hyper goes, it's limited to OTG or grounded opponents, or dudes slightly above the ground. Anywhere else and it won't connect, although there's also the matter of what character you're getting in addition to his level 3.

    Dorm's level 3 is risky, to put it lightly. Yes, you can get an almost guaranteed land if they're next to you and he can combo after it if he has an assist but going for it outside of the above scenario or in a combo. That said, you're still getting Dormammu out of the deal and as far as Level 3's go, it's not a terrible deal. Usually when it comes to Level 3's I gauge the utility versus the character and in this case I don't think Dark Dimension isn't as bad of an option as other characters get.

    Arthur's level 3 is bottom tier because it's so situationally useful that when those stars align, it can be an absolute game-changer. Golden Arthur coming in, can wait it out until he's about to pop. For the Princess, guaranteed safe break. In such a situation it can work even better as a happy birthday move, although the ten hits are split between everyone on-screen. The main problem is that if someone blocks it, Arthur is fucked. Yes, there's invincibility throughout the explosions and slightly afterward, but Arthur is left so wide open afterward that it's essentially a free kill. What's worse is that his Level 3 has the distinction of being one of the few non-cinematic ones that dole out damage in increments as opposed to one big shot a la Genmu Zero, meaning that if it IS blocked, there output is significantly less. Plus, y'know, you're using Arthur.

    Shin Shoryuken isn't so bad as others solely because it's easy to combo after landing it. For damage, it deals more than Genmu Zero and less than some others although most of the ones that do are either outranked based on their utility, the character that's using it, or both. Granted, considering Ryu is using it, one could place it lower but as is I think there's more merit to the move as things stand.

    Dante can combo after his Level 3, Wesker can't outside of popping XFC. Dante's can also hit nearly full-screen whereas Wesker's doesn't. Only edge that Wesker's level 3 has over Dante's is 10k points of damage.
  • bloodymessbloodymess Joined: Posts: 1,916
    Can you explain the axes? I don't understand the arrangement at all lol

    There's no specific option for moves. Closest option would be usability but eeeeeehhhhhhh
  • forte95forte95 Buster Cannoneer Joined: Posts: 546
    edited June 2014
    Almost all level 3 hypers have horrible recovery.

    Magneto and Zero are just as much vulnerable to punishes after a blocked level 3 as Arthur. But Magneto doesn't have invincible startup. Arthur's level 3 is better than Magneto's and Zero's if you're using it outside combos (to beat stuff out), and is only slightly below Magneto's when using it in combos.

    Dorm's is risky, yeah, but so is everything above it in the tier list (except for X23's since it's an install). At the very least, it should be slightly better than Doom's (either horizontally or vertically), since at close range, it's 0-frame compared to Doom's 1-frame, plus it has invincibility. And Iron Man's is very similar to Dorm's; they should be at the same tier, more or less.

    RR's extends to a pretty good height above the floor, but you're right that Magneto's is just objectively better because it gets you even at sj height. But I don't think that difference is enough justification to put them that far apart in the tier list.

    Does Ryu's have invincibility? I don't think it does, but I'm not sure. If it doesn't, it just really doesn't have too much use outside combos, and that's a huge minus cause the others I mentioned have utility outside of combos.

    Now that I think about it, you're right about Wesker's. The main thing I had in mind was the potential to be used as a reversal.

    Although, yeah, I didn't know you factored in the actual character themselves; I thought you were tiering the level 3s regardless of the character they're attached to.

    Edit: couple of grammar errors

    Double edit: didn't know Doom was also 0-frame post flash, thanks serp for saying that
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  • bloodymessbloodymess Joined: Posts: 1,916
    forte95 wrote: »
    Almost all level 3 hypers have horrible recovery.

    Magneto and Zero are just as much vulnerable to punishes after a blocked level 3 as Arthur. But Magneto doesn't have invincible startup. Arthur's level 3 is better than Magneto's and Zero's if you're using it outside combos (to beat stuff out), and is only slightly below Magneto's when using it in combos.

    Dorm's is risky, yeah, but so is everything above it in the tier list (except for X23's since it's an install). At the very least, it should be slightly better than Doom's (either horizontally or vertically), since at close range, it's 0-frame compared to Doom's 1-frame, plus it has invincibility. And Iron Man's is very similar to Dorm's; they should be at the same tier, more or less.

    RR's extends to a pretty good height above the floor, but you're right that Magneto's is just objectively better because it gets you even at sj height. But I don't think that difference is enough justification to put them that far apart in the tier list.

    Does Ryu's have invincibility? I don't think it does, but I'm not sure. If it doesn't, it just really doesn't have too much use outside combos, and that's a huge minus cause the others I mentioned have utility outside of combos.

    Now that I think about it, you're right about Wesker's. The main thing I had in mind was the potential to be used as a reversal.

    Although, yeah, I didn't know you factored in the actual character themselves; I thought you were tiering the level 3s regardless of the character they're attached to.

    Edit: couple of grammar errors

    Double edit: didn't know Doom was also 0-frame post flash, thanks serp for saying that

    I have seen one Arthur punish another Arthur from full-screen after a blocked level 3. Please don't tell me that one level 3 is more punishable than another when a dude that doesn't have a dash can punish his own level 3 from full-screen. As far as the "when utility" goes it's about even, I'd argue. Grabbity Squeege starts up quickly, has two or so frames after flash, leads to almost 450k damage, and allows for a follow up afterwards. Lack of invincibility doesn't mean a whole lot when you can snatch someone regardless of where they are and still be safe afterward. Even outside of combos, I'd still argue in favor of Grabbity/Genmu over For the Princess. Only time I'd argue in favor of FtP is in terms of countering another invincible hyper, in which case FtP wins.

    Dorm's would be rated more highly than Doom were it not the fact that it's Dorm's level 3 and had Doom Time's zero frame. I can factor in individual level 3's themselves and the list would be relatively unchanged except for the more densely populated portion, in which case Doom would go lower down. As is, Doom's level 3 can be as bad as Nemesis' three frame start-up grab: this is still DOOM we're talking about.

    For Iron Man's level 3, it's sort of a reverse case when it comes to character vs. level 3 utility. Iron Avenger has invincibility, can deal one of the highest outputs a level 3 can deal, and allows Iron Man to combo after it. That said, it's Iron Man. As good as a move can be, the fact that we're going to deal with using Iron Man cannot be ignored.

    As for the separation between RR and Magneto, it's like my prior point: Magneto is just a vastly superior character in my opinion.

    Shin Shoryuken does have invincibility. Kinda redundant for one character to have two invincible supers but eh, Ryu could use all the help he can get. It still has utility in that regard because not only can it beat out many moves, it can start a punisher combo the easiest out of any level 3 in the game, except the ones that cause crumple.

    For character vs. utility- Yeah it's a thing I do. Almost impossible to gauge any given character's ability without taking into account the character itself.

    Also yes Doom is a 0 frame. Stupid as hell but yeah.
    I've got serp on ignore but knew about this beforehand anyway. Every grab level 3 in the game also has 0 frame start-up except Nemmy's, which has three frames. Sometimes I think this game has it out for big bodies.
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,525
    edited June 2014
    wait are you assuming that your "rating" is accurate or somthing? i think it sucks very hard and its a very bad opinion based on nothing. now block me again.
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,525
    edited June 2014
    Doom's Time is attached to a character who isn't as reliant on meter as Dormammu. That is a big deal to me.

    but the dude is saying that dormammu lv3 is not 0 frames post flash. His whole rating system is based on information that is wrong; he shamelessly claims that he blocked me as if he knew more about my character than me yet his long *** text says otherwise.

    only on srk
    when dormammu is in control he doesnt need meter to keep momentum in most matchups
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  • KresentKresent For Science. You Monster. Joined: Posts: 793
    If I remember correctly, isn't Ryu's Shin Shoryuken (380k) the weakest level 3 in the game after Genmu Zero (350k)? That's a pretty big mark against it. It's only 30k stronger than Genmu Zero, but doesn't have near the versatility.
    Shin Shoryu looks cool as hell though, and the audio that goes with it sounds like some kind of steam engine or something that is about to blow.
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  • bloodymessbloodymess Joined: Posts: 1,916
    Kresent wrote: »
    If I remember correctly, isn't Ryu's Shin Shoryuken (380k) the weakest level 3 in the game after Genmu Zero (350k)? That's a pretty big mark against it. It's only 30k stronger than Genmu Zero, but doesn't have near the versatility.
    Shin Shoryu looks cool as hell though, and the audio that goes with it sounds like some kind of steam engine or something that is about to blow.

    I think Rocky Raccoon deals less damage if unmashed. Then again, that's unmashed.

    I do think that when compared against each other, Genmu Zero wins out if only because the character attached to it is so fucking good. Shin Shoryu still has some invincibility to it and allows for a pretty easy follow-up regardless of where you are on-screen whereas Genmu Zero can only allows follow-ups in the corner. It's still held back by its damage and the fact that you're using Ryu to get at it but all things considered on its own, Shin Shoryu is pretty swell.
  • KresentKresent For Science. You Monster. Joined: Posts: 793
    edited June 2014
    I don't think it has anything to do with being attached to Zero. As it was stated above, Zero and Arthur are the only two with level 3's that punish assists. As in, not an install and not cinematic.

    If I remember correctly, Genmu Zero is also the highest durability projectile in the game, at 100 points of high durability. It also has more invincibility than Shin Shoryuken by 2 frames. I mean, it covers all of normal jump height, will negate any non-high-durability projectile in the game, beat almost every hyper in the game for free, travels stupid fast, and has a lot of invincibility. Any character would benefit from having Genmu Zero as their level 3.

    Shin Shoryuken is just combo or reversal only, and can be combo'd after to allow you to use more meter that another character had to build for Ryu anyway. Not much else going for it otherwise.
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  • bloodymessbloodymess Joined: Posts: 1,916
    Kresent wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with being attached to Zero. As it was stated above, Zero and Arthur are the only two with level 3's that punish assists. As in, not an install and not cinematic.

    If I remember correctly, Genmu Zero is also the highest durability projectile in the game, at 100 points of high durability. It also has more invincibility than Shin Shoryuken by 2 frames. I mean, it covers all of normal jump height, will negate any non-high-durability projectile in the game, beat almost every hyper in the game for free, travels stupid fast, and has a lot of invincibility. Any character would benefit from having Genmu Zero as their level 3.

    Shin Shoryuken is just combo or reversal only, and can be combo'd after to allow you to use more meter that another character had to build for Ryu anyway. Not much else going for it otherwise.

    Chris can punish assists with his but it's stupidly difficult to do so.

    So can She-Hulk's whiff car but nobody is going to seriously spend three meters for 200k points of damage unless it's 100% guaranteed you can get a happy boo boo off it.

    Admittedly I'm probably not giving Genmu Zero enough credit if only because the entire argument is won by arguing in favor of Genmu Zero because Zero is using it. Considering it's the only full projectile in the game that can stuff Hyper Charging Star when pit against each other at the same time, that is pretty damn impressive. I guess we sorta agree with each other in that Genmu > Shin Shoryu, just that I'm ending the entire debate at lolZero

    As for the ShinSho comment, yeah it's pretty much limited in what it's capable of. That said, it's still got more going for it than most of the level 3's below it, hence why it's as relatively high up as it is in the first place. Hell, it's the only level 3 in the game that will allow Doom raw tag combos without popping XFC
  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 3,037
    Doom's Time is attached to a character who isn't as reliant on meter as Dormammu. That is a big deal to me.

    but the dude is saying that dormammu lv3 is not 0 frames post flash. His whole rating system is based on information that is wrong; he shamelessly claims that he blocked me as if he knew more about my character than me yet his long *** text says otherwise.

    only on srk
    when dormammu is in control he doesnt need meter to keep momentum in most matchups

    Nigga I'm not gonna white knight for you I'm just saying my opinion lol

    I think the rating system is kinda shit too, frankly, but this list is also pretty pointless so whatever. I thought it was ranked like cool factor/usefulness at first.
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  • KresentKresent For Science. You Monster. Joined: Posts: 793
    bloodymess wrote: »
    Hell, it's the only level 3 in the game that will allow Doom raw tag combos without popping XFC

    You can do it with Dark Dimension into Doom tag, s.M as long as you aren't facing straight into the corner.
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  • bloodymessbloodymess Joined: Posts: 1,916
    Kresent wrote: »
    bloodymess wrote: »
    Hell, it's the only level 3 in the game that will allow Doom raw tag combos without popping XFC

    You can do it with Dark Dimension into Doom tag, s.M as long as you aren't facing straight into the corner.

    Right, forgot about that. Although if it won't work in the corner, ShinSho still has the "works everywhere" thing going for it.

    Nigga I'm not gonna white knight for you I'm just saying my opinion lol

    I think the rating system is kinda shit too, frankly, but this list is also pretty pointless so whatever. I thought it was ranked like cool factor/usefulness at first.

    The only character worth mentioning as far as cool factor goes is Deadpool for 4th Wall Crisis. The only one who's better than he is at breaking the game at such a meta level is Capcom.
  • alejandroshalejandrosh Joined: Posts: 446
    forte95 wrote: »
    Wesker's should be at the same tier as Dante's, more or less. Just less well-rounded because it doesn't go as far and doesn't have proj invincibility post-flash.

    No way, if the hitstun is not too high (say you use level three to combo after air throw) Dante can combo after it , build a bar (solo) and super for more damage. Having level three gives dante the option to do decent damage (for ass character standards) after air throws, or fireworks.

    Wesker's only seems good because it's his only decent hyper.
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  • CorkyjayCorkyjay Joined: Posts: 288
    bloodymess wrote: »
    Dorm's level 3 is risky, to put it lightly. Yes, you can get an almost guaranteed land if they're next to you and he can combo after it if he has an assist but going for it outside of the above scenario or in a combo. That said, you're still getting Dormammu out of the deal and as far as Level 3's go, it's not a terrible deal. Usually when it comes to Level 3's I gauge the utility versus the character and in this case I don't think Dark Dimension isn't as bad of an option as other characters get.
    .

    but why do you rate dr doom lv3 higher?

    its basically a nerfed dark dimension. Lets see a dark dimension vs doom time chart

    1. dark dimension and doom time startup: the only part where doom time wins, dark dimension is 8 frames, doom time is 4 frames. both catch characters 0 frames post flash, which means that you cant react after the flash starts (like mighty punish; this is a GREATLY underrated aspect of certain hypers)

    Isn't Dorms Dark Dimension only 0 frames post flash upclose because i know from a distance it has travel time
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    edited June 2014
    2nd time in 2 weeks that someone has said something nice about x23 and nobody made a huge stink about it. I like it.

    That said... Why is wolverine's lvl3 rated so high? Is it not pretty much just Dante's without a follow up? Also, I think you could have a more illustrative layout. I have no clue what your axes are supposed to dictate. Are you actually rating based on the character's tier also? If so, what does that have to do with comparing their lvl3's?
    UMvC3: Magneto(EMD)/ X-23(CS)/Dante(JS)
    300%, Welcome to America.
    R.I.P. Iron Man/Rocket Raccoon
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited June 2014
    bloodymess wrote: »
    Dorm's level 3 is risky, to put it lightly. Yes, you can get an almost guaranteed land if they're next to you and he can combo after it if he has an assist but going for it outside of the above scenario or in a combo. That said, you're still getting Dormammu out of the deal and as far as Level 3's go, it's not a terrible deal. Usually when it comes to Level 3's I gauge the utility versus the character and in this case I don't think Dark Dimension isn't as bad of an option as other characters get.
    .

    but why do you rate dr doom lv3 higher?

    its basically a nerfed dark dimension. Lets see a dark dimension vs doom time chart

    1. dark dimension and doom time startup: the only part where doom time wins, dark dimension is 8 frames, doom time is 4 frames. both catch characters 0 frames post flash, which means that you cant react after the flash starts (like mighty punish; this is a GREATLY underrated aspect of certain hypers)
    2. reach: dark dimension reach fullscreen distance and has 5 high durability pointsx5frames. doom reach in front of him in a range of his cr.H and doesnt outdurability anything. Dark dimension catch a hyper sentinel force hyper on reaction for example
    3. otg and combo posibilities: dark dimension OTGs, doom time doesnt otg (doesn matter because doom has s.M...), dark dimension allows combo afterwards because it causes a hard knockdown (similar to nova hard knockdown after his airgrab), doom need vjoe slow or vale of mist effects for being able to otg with his s.M after it connects
    4. recovery and invincible frames: dark dimension has 1-36 invincible frames, active for 20 frames and -69 on block. doom time has 1-9 invincible frames, 1 active frame, -27 on block. But really, -27 or -69 is the same thing, every character can punish both on block. So dark dimension is CLEARLY better. You see stupid ridiculous stuff with dark dimension, like catching characters from behind dormammu (because dark dimension has a hitbox right behind dormammu) trying to cr.L him before the 20 active frames end
    5. damage: both are unscaled, but doom time causes 440k where dark d. causes 400k

    honestly i dont see how one can rate doom time over dark dimension. Ignorance is a bliss i guess

    Just to elaborate on a few things. Not necessarily disagreeing, but...

    Doom's time is +0 but you can react with a block after it, unlike other +0 supers like Hyper Stars and Stripes and Cuttin' Time. It would be stupid good if you could use it like an Apha 1/2 super/Valle CC.

    Doom's time is much better in that it hits it's full range immediately and so is much better as an X-Factor cancel. It reaches MUCH further than his cr.H.

    Anyway, this discussion is terrible because Bloody Mess's logic is specious at best and I can't be bothered to point out the 3 trillion ways that he's wrong. So pretty much like everything else in this thread. Carry on.
    Post edited by Duck Strong on
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • RagingDemonStormRagingDemonStorm The power of elevation Joined: Posts: 3,182
    Too many misconceptions here.

    The coolest level 3 is a grab that's not a 0 frame hyper. Don't act like you don't know what hyper I'm implying.

    Best of both worlds level 3 is easily Wright's.

    Rocket's level 3 can be mashed and deals 3 different damages. Either 3k, 10k, or 13k depending on button presses. Last hit(s) should be unscaled. It leaves a lot of time to combo from and even the worse characters that you can hard tag in can confirm after it. It should be common knowledge that Rocket can confirm after it too. It also hits pretty hard for a small character's hyper. Probably because Capcom is notorious for letting new characters in games half broken and not fully tested.

    Another level 3 that can be easily followed up is Dark Angel but chances are your opponent is probably Sanfording his stick before the hyper ends.
    CVS2 Akuma\Geese\whoevers top tier in that groove
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 8,306
    the coolest looking level 3 is chaos dimension imo
    that shit looks awesome

    too bad it's terrible
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
    Youtube(random doom TAC help, doom combos, ammy stuff, shuma combos and tech): http://www.youtube.com/user/Clickclakmoo?feature=mhee Danke on shuma gorath: "He who sleeps but shouldn't have costed me 5 dollars."
  • tabtab the impossible dream Joined: Posts: 1,993
    edited June 2014
    wth different button mashes cause diff DMG?
  • JohnNumbersJohnNumbers Joined: Posts: 53
    edited June 2014
    Penance Stare is one awesome looking hyper. It feels like the whole universe just stops and revolves around you for a moment when you get it.

    Plus you get a followup and that never hurt anyone.

    Too bad it's attached to Ghost Rider tho
  • tabtab the impossible dream Joined: Posts: 1,993
    Wesker lvl3 is my jam. he should spell his name w the strikes tho
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