2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams

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  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,512
    Playing the UMvC3 EX mod. It's fun but it's funny how slight changes can lead to infinites and brokeness. This would be cool, turns into this is broken real quick.
    It's funny though even WITH the mod, the top tiers still hold their own.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,711 mod
    edited July 4
    I can't bother with mods. You don't break MAHVEL with balanced impurities. Leave that for Smash Brawl.


    Morrigan harmonizer assist stayed as powerful in the meta as I predicted. RyanLV's team is pretty much optimizing the online warrior Harmonizer/Phoenix teams that were running around online since Vanilla. It's pretty much MVC2 HoHo Storm gameplay in 3. Except instead of burning supers on hail or DHC you just get Phoenix really really fast.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,512
    edited July 4
    UMVC3 EX is great for WTF greatness, had a ball with locals in NyC with it. Traction worthy? Not likely as
    people just move on to the next game as per true fighting game tradition. In the meantime I'll enjoy my
    relevant Nemesis and Air Okay Jamming bombs LOL

    On Vanilla Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 I'm still a firm believer in Zero May Sougenmou. That old Crisis lock down theory.
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,895
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,512

    Oooh, didn't notice he updated body attack on MODOK. Must try when I get home. Still wish he'd give
    the jumping L animation to his C.L. if possible. Count it as a low and DOK would be frosty.

  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,895

    Oooh, didn't notice he updated body attack on MODOK. Must try when I get home. Still wish he'd give
    the jumping L animation to his C.L. if possible. Count it as a low and DOK would be frosty.

    Watch them keep the indefinite animation too. He just keeps kicking until you jump or cancel into something else.
  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 HA-LU-KEN Joined: Posts: 4,143
    Honestly, I am surprised that Magneto is only listed once.
    NNID/XboxLive: UnSaxon51

    The real reason Ridley isn't in Smash

    "Haggar is Newton's Laws of Motion, the character." ~ ThatJollyOldBastid

    "Mac is knocking the fabulous right out of Marth!" ~ Saitsu
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,512
    edited July 6

    Oooh, didn't notice he updated body attack on MODOK. Must try when I get home. Still wish he'd give
    the jumping L animation to his C.L. if possible. Count it as a low and DOK would be frosty.

    Watch them keep the indefinite animation too. He just keeps kicking until you jump or cancel into something else.

    They've done some creative stuff. I'm sure they can set a duration. Many of the mods have changed durations.
    d3v wrote: »

    Not bad, but I don't that's completely accurate.

  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,689 mod

    Oooh, didn't notice he updated body attack on MODOK. Must try when I get home. Still wish he'd give
    the jumping L animation to his C.L. if possible. Count it as a low and DOK would be frosty.

    Watch them keep the indefinite animation too. He just keeps kicking until you jump or cancel into something else.

    They've done some creative stuff. I'm sure they can set a duration. Many of the mods have changed durations.
    d3v wrote: »

    Not bad, but I don't that's completely accurate.

    Well he did say that there are more duos that are closely behind them. But it's easy to see why Ryan thinks that, considering the most common top tier teams.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,895
    I know it's coming from FChamp, but I really don't think Phoenix is endgame anymore. Not only do you have ways to deal with her Dark transformation, but characters like Strange and Dormammu are really damn scary with the same resources and don't fall apart if you're just short of 5 bars at the wrong time.

    Going into Infinite, I feel like there are still a handful of point characters that never really got their chance to make waves. Joe, Viper, Firebrand, and Spiderman all had some high potential but never really found a big-name player to click with in the same way that Morrigan (ChrisG), Zero (Flocker), Wolverine (Justin), and Magneto (FChamp and MANY others) did.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,711 mod
    Full Schedule was nearly there with Viper, but as of last CEO it seems like he still chokes up on unblockable setups and gets punished for it. Jam Session gives you guaranteed unblockables, but only Zero players like playing Dante

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,895
    Which is weird, you'd think Viper players would understand the execution behind playing Dante better than anyone. Must be the swords, I guess.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,689 mod
    I know it's coming from FChamp, but I really don't think Phoenix is endgame anymore. Not only do you have ways to deal with her Dark transformation, but characters like Strange and Dormammu are really damn scary with the same resources and don't fall apart if you're just short of 5 bars at the wrong time.
    He's probably looking into what RyanLV has been doing, especially with Dark Harmonizer. It's MorriJean after all, not Phoenix alone.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,512
    Right where MODOK/Doom is, nowhere in the top 10 Duos. They're good can be contested by to many average team comps and don't change
    the way the opponent has to play as easily.

  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,895
    Really? I figured MODOK is one those characters you basically have to play at his game because of his start of the round flight antics.
    d3v wrote: »
    I know it's coming from FChamp, but I really don't think Phoenix is endgame anymore. Not only do you have ways to deal with her Dark transformation, but characters like Strange and Dormammu are really damn scary with the same resources and don't fall apart if you're just short of 5 bars at the wrong time.
    He's probably looking into what RyanLV has been doing, especially with Dark Harmonizer. It's MorriJean after all, not Phoenix alone.

    You know, I haven't really followed UMvC3 for years, so I had to look up footage of this guy. He's got a really good Phoenix and Chun, but in every match I observed he falls apart if not given space to call Morrigan. A legit X/Morri/Strange team backed by Bolts assist sounds much scarier imo.
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,512
    What goes up, must come down. Even the best MODOKS get opened up if they have to block for more than a couple of seconds. His flight is clunky and he can't chicken block. Not to mention most of the top assists will bring him down while you nail his assist call. MODOK starting in the air is over stated.
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 697
    Phoenix been endgame. Your blowing xfactor and/or meter to stop her. And players have only got better at guaranteeing her.

    There aren't many characters that can make the shell work though. At least, not to the same proficiency RyanLV's team does.

    But there hasn't been a team that straight outmatches Chris G's team in Umvc3, until RyanLV's.

    I do think Doom/Dante us overrated though.
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • ZatalconZatalcon Most hated man on SRK Joined: Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    wolv/akuma over doom/dante. On paper, sure it looks weaker but not IRL.
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,895
    Opinions on Frank? He's got some really strong tools once leveled up, but even at level 5 his mobility kind of sucks and he struggles with projectile flood characters like Zero and Morrigan. That said, as a support character he's FANTASTIC and is more than capable of cleaning up after a top tier point character if his team already has momentum/incoming.
  • thiagoeisthiagoeis Just press the buttons Joined: Posts: 631
    Kinda agree with Champ, but... Where is Nova/Strange? Wolv/Akuma? Doom/Ammy? Those are pretty good.
    High level salty play

    - I try to play:
    MvC:I: Reality-Ultron/Chun, Time-Ultron/Chun, Power-Ultron/Ryu
    DBZ: Trunks/Piccolo/Yamcha
    UMvC3: Chun-Li/Doom/Strider, Taskmaster/Chun/Hawkeye, Task/Doom/Hawk, point Hawkeye and point Vergil (troll) teams
    SFV: Alex, Guile and Ryu (CFN id: trakkerzorg)

    Other games:
    - I play 4fun or when someone asks:
    GGXrd: Slayer
    SFxT: Combinations of Poison, Jin, Ryu, Vega(Claw), Yoshimitsu, Guile and sometimes Chun
    MSH: Psylocke and Spider-Man
    MvC: Gambit, Spider-Man, Ryu, Strider. Trolls with Zangief, Venom and O. Hulk
    Super Turbo/HDR: Guile, Vega(Claw)
    3rd Strike: Akuma, Ryu. Trolls with Alex and Twelve
    USFIV: Vega(Claw), Ryu. Fools around with Seth and Poison

    - Stuff that I should practice more but I don't:
    DOA5LR: Kasumi
    MvC2: WarMachine/IronMan/Doom. Also weird teams with Rogue, Gambit, Ken, Akuma and other mid tiers
    CvS2: A-Guile/Ryu/Vega, A-Terry/Ken/Vega
    KOF XIII: Terry/King/Kim
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,711 mod
    Champ and Yipes have beef so he didn't mention Nova/Strange. Wolverine/Akuma is dishonest and Doom/Ammy is too weeb.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,408
    The Duke wrote: »
    The same stuff predicted 3 years ago but remove viper add more Doom and everyone stopped pretending Vergil evaporated as anchor due to 'no incoming defense options'; also Phoenix is back.

    *pops head in after 3 years*
    Oh so those crazy SRK kids finally stopped talking about "the undisputed best character in the game" C. Viper, huh?
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • The DukeThe Duke Joined: Posts: 14,564
    Human hands can't keep up. Completely exhausted in most tournament environments. Not her fault the flesh is weak.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,689 mod
    edited July 13
    Really? I figured MODOK is one those characters you basically have to play at his game because of his start of the round flight antics.
    d3v wrote: »
    I know it's coming from FChamp, but I really don't think Phoenix is endgame anymore. Not only do you have ways to deal with her Dark transformation, but characters like Strange and Dormammu are really damn scary with the same resources and don't fall apart if you're just short of 5 bars at the wrong time.
    He's probably looking into what RyanLV has been doing, especially with Dark Harmonizer. It's MorriJean after all, not Phoenix alone.

    You know, I haven't really followed UMvC3 for years, so I had to look up footage of this guy. He's got a really good Phoenix and Chun, but in every match I observed he falls apart if not given space to call Morrigan. A legit X/Morri/Strange team backed by Bolts assist sounds much scarier imo.

    Maybe, but RyanLV wins more than he loses, and many are predicting that he'll be in grand finals at Evo this year, if not the one to take it.

    CEO2017 GFs has basically been called a preview of Evo GFs.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,895
    Anyone want to compare the top tiers of MvC2 and UMvC3?
    • Storm -> Morrigan (can stall out weaker characters, abuses meter economy)
    • Sentinel -> Zero (Massive damage output, dominates neutral)
    • Magneto -> Magneto (lol)
    • Cable -> Vergil (really good with meter stocked, doesn't have the mobility of other top tiers)
    • Cyclops -> Dante (Really good assist attached to a solid character)
    • Iron Man -> Firebrand (Only needs 1 touch for a 300% combo on the right team)
    • Doom -> Doom (Best raw support character by far, assist enables so much bullshit)
    • Dhalsim -> Viper (Really, really good on paper but has a ridiculous execution barrier)
    • Blackheart -> Dormammu/Strange (Solid zoning and support abilities, can manhandle the weaker characters)
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,512
    So sad not to see a Spiral function in UMVC3
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,689 mod
    So sad not to see a Spiral function in UMVC3

    Morrigan. MorriDoom trap is the closest we can get to MvC2's SpiralSent trap.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,512
    This is true, god I loved the salt I caused. My hands couldn't handle Morri/Doom.
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 697
    Combofirend vs Yipes exhibition at Bar Fights 21:00 PDT tonight (Friday).

    Tryna see that She-Hulk action but GMT over here so will probably catch it later during the day.
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 4,957
    edited July 15
    Champ missed a few duos which is surprising. I will edit and comeback later with a few duos he missed.

    Dante Strider
    Mag Dante
    Dorm Dante
    Lv4-5 Frank Dante
    Viper Dante/strider

    Some of the notable ones he missed. You have to be extremely skilled to play them well but they are really good top tier shells.
    Post edited by charlie88 on
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,895
    I consider MorriDoom closer to MvC2 Strider traps than Spiral's. Not in terms of positioning, but rather by how the pacing of the match is set. Morrigan needs to activate Astral Vision to get that kind of chip going, and can easily convert that zoning into pressure with her air dash after flight cancels. I think a properly assisted level 4/5 Frank could be a chip monster because of his normals and frame advantage, but it takes much more to set him up than most traditional chip-based threats in either game.

    The system mechanics of 3 make playing that way much harder. Advancing guard can kill unassisted pressure for free AND negates all incoming chip, even from hypers. Then you have X-Factor passively negating chip, regenerating red life, and allowing for guard cancels to blow up otherwise safe options.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 4,957
    My online training partner and friend Drock beat Ranmasama 3-2. My online crew growing some of the best players at this game.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,512
    I consider MorriDoom closer to MvC2 Strider traps than Spiral's. Not in terms of positioning, but rather by how the pacing of the match is set. Morrigan needs to activate Astral Vision to get that kind of chip going, and can easily convert that zoning into pressure with her air dash after flight cancels. I think a properly assisted level 4/5 Frank could be a chip monster because of his normals and frame advantage, but it takes much more to set him up than most traditional chip-based threats in either game.

    The system mechanics of 3 make playing that way much harder. Advancing guard can kill unassisted pressure for free AND negates all incoming chip, even from hypers. Then you have X-Factor passively negating chip, regenerating red life, and allowing for guard cancels to blow up otherwise safe options.

    Yeah, imo Spiral traps were pretty unique in a lot of ways. If she existed in Marvel 3 with DOOM Missiles? Shiiiiiiiiiet Spiral swords? It would have been a sight to see.
    I would have Spiral/DOK/Doomed myself to Lame heaven.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,689 mod
    edited July 17
    I think the number of Phoenix teams we saw at Evo top 8, let alone the fact that RyanLV won it with her should put to rest any doubts on whether or not she's "end game", especially with that specific shell. In the end, that shell gives you the option of either stalling it out with Morrigan, or just straight up going Dark Phoenix. It's like MvC2 Cable, except you have two characters who can win using all that meter.
    charlie88 wrote: »
    Champ missed a few duos which is surprising. I will edit and comeback later with a few duos he missed.

    Dante Strider
    Mag Dante
    Dorm Dante
    Lv4-5 Frank Dante
    Viper Dante/strider

    Some of the notable ones he missed. You have to be extremely skilled to play them well but they are really good top tier shells.

    Probably doesn't think that they are as strong compared to the ones he listed.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,895
    While everyone was busy wanking over Zero/Magneto/Morrigan based teams, a guy running point Haggar made it into top 4. Mad respect to Paradigm for making that character work in a meta defined by mobility and covering the screen with hitboxes. He confirms something I theorized about long ago: If you're going to play point Haggar, you should plan around blowing XF1 to get a meterless confirm off of Lariat. The damage and resets on this character are strong enough to have multiple bars stocked for later, which can then be used for hyper cancels. I feel like the guy could have made top 3, possibly even top 2 if he played a second character as well as he plays Haggar.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 4,957
    Haggar was never bad. Lariat is just more valuable than his point abilities for most teams. Having said that I don't put much weight into this evo considering most people stopped playing Marvel hardcore.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,711 mod
    This Evo was pretty much the who's left and probably those left didn't practice as hard as they would in 2012 thru 15. It'll be good to see all the pros and new guys hungry for Marvel again.


    It's honestly a miracle UMVC3 made it to Mandalay stadium Sunday finals this year. You can't stop crack.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • ZatalconZatalcon Most hated man on SRK Joined: Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    While everyone was busy wanking over Zero/Magneto/Morrigan based teams, a guy running point Haggar made it into top 4. Mad respect to Paradigm for making that character work in a meta defined by mobility and covering the screen with hitboxes. He confirms something I theorized about long ago: If you're going to play point Haggar, you should plan around blowing XF1 to get a meterless confirm off of Lariat. The damage and resets on this character are strong enough to have multiple bars stocked for later, which can then be used for hyper cancels. I feel like the guy could have made top 3, possibly even top 2 if he played a second character as well as he plays Haggar.

    Yes, and a Chunli/Morrigan/Phoenix won the entire thing. On paper, if some dude came in here and start going off about that team possibly beating a Chris G team everybody would be shitting on that opinion... but man, it happened.

    That is the beauty of UMVC3. People have complained about the brokeness of xx character, and have made various tier lists on who is better than who but this game is just that well balanced. Yes, tiers do give an advantage but it's your ability to design a team and just work that shit that matters the most. Same can't be said with many team based fighting games. This 3v3+assist is what i wish remains in Marvel, forever.

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