2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams

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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,777 mod
    Chun is a natural Bullet Hell counter with her mobility. People just don't pick her because most player are looking at getting in and just doing damage - something that's much easier for other characters to do. What Ryan did was simply take her mobility that and combine it with a shell that could benefit from her runaway - building hella meter and having the tools to cash in on it.
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,952
    To be honest, I don't think Chun is really required for that team. Sure, she can avoid bullet hell, but the real problem comes from Morrigan's assist being borderline unpunishable. Harmonizer just turns that pointless stalling into something productive. I feel like you would be better off playing a stronger point character like Wolverine or Magneto and fighting normally than potentially screwing yourself via time over, which happens a few times vs ChrisG.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,777 mod
    You're down playing the mental aspect though. Getting stalled out like that while playing a team that's meant to lockdown and stall (effectively getting out-stalled) is quite mentally crushing. Ryan's game is all about using that to put his opponent on tilt, especially since getting Chun down on life doesn't necessarily mean his opponent is winning.

    It's basically Sun Tzu's concept of "the Sheathed Sword" as discussed by Sirlin in Playing to Win. It's a brick wall that he puts up that his opponent has to overcome before they can get to "actual fighting". Except, unlike Sirlin's A2 Rose "low strong" example, Ryan's MorriPhoenix shell means he can win once the "actual fighting" starts.
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,570
    I remember playing DOK/Morri/Phoenix it was super silly how easy I got Dark Phoenix.
    Honestly Phoenix is the perfect character to fuck with players mentally, so while I'm not sold on
    how endgame the character is, pulling her out to fuck up someones general gameplan is perfect.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 4,979
    The problem is Chris G wasn't throwing enough soul drains. There are several instances every match where morrogan was tagging Phoenix or Morrgisn assist. A fewvsoil drain hits and Phoenix doesn't have 5 bars.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 697
    To be honest, I don't think Chun is really required for that team. Sure, she can avoid bullet hell, but the real problem comes from Morrigan's assist being borderline unpunishable. Harmonizer just turns that pointless stalling into something productive. I feel like you would be better off playing a stronger point character like Wolverine or Magneto and fighting normally than potentially screwing yourself via time over, which happens a few times vs ChrisG.

    Disasgree.

    RyanLV used to play Magneto/Morrigan/Phoenx as a main and secondary- I believe there's footage of him playing Chris G with the team in a previous Evo. Chun Li not only stalls better than Magneto. But can confirm off more situations than Magneto, mainly OTGs (although she can only situationally confirm of certain ground throws, With Mags able to confirm off all throws). Wolverine isn't capable of running away to anywhere near a basic degree. And is not strong enough on point to fight Morridoom with no neutral assist like Chun is on his team. M.O.D.O.K, Trish, Storm, Thor are closer substitutes. But can not replicate all of Chun LI's stregnths to the same degree she can.

    Furthermore, RyanLV does not struggle Chris G's teams at all. Can hardly say he screwed himself against Chris G, when he's beaten him convincingly in every time they faced eachother since Evo 16, other than NCR. But then continued beating him after his short break from majors.

    MorriDoom's strength in keeping people out becomes it's weakness against LV's team which tries to stay out to build meter for Phoenix. And LV is adept enough in engaging that he can deal with Morrigan's direct approach. And lands clean hits on her and Vergil, both of which should not be happening, especially when they are backed by neutral assists.

    LV's team just straight beats Chris G's.
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    YawDan wrote: »
    To be honest, I don't think Chun is really required for that team. Sure, she can avoid bullet hell, but the real problem comes from Morrigan's assist being borderline unpunishable. Harmonizer just turns that pointless stalling into something productive. I feel like you would be better off playing a stronger point character like Wolverine or Magneto and fighting normally than potentially screwing yourself via time over, which happens a few times vs ChrisG.

    Disasgree.

    RyanLV used to play Magneto/Morrigan/Phoenx as a main and secondary- I believe there's footage of him playing Chris G with the team in a previous Evo. Chun Li not only stalls better than Magneto. But can confirm off more situations than Magneto, mainly OTGs (although she can only situationally confirm of certain ground throws, With Mags able to confirm off all throws). Wolverine isn't capable of running away to anywhere near a basic degree. And is not strong enough on point to fight Morridoom with no neutral assist like Chun is on his team. M.O.D.O.K, Trish, Storm, Thor are closer substitutes. But can not replicate all of Chun LI's stregnths to the same degree she can.

    Furthermore, RyanLV does not struggle Chris G's teams at all. Can hardly say he screwed himself against Chris G, when he's beaten him convincingly in every time they faced eachother since Evo 16, other than NCR. But then continued beating him after his short break from majors.

    MorriDoom's strength in keeping people out becomes it's weakness against LV's team which tries to stay out to build meter for Phoenix. And LV is adept enough in engaging that he can deal with Morrigan's direct approach. And lands clean hits on her and Vergil, both of which should not be happening, especially when they are backed by neutral assists.

    LV's team just straight beats Chris G's.

    This.

    Even RyanLV said in a recent interview that he used to run Magneto/Morrigan/Phoenix, he would get counterpicked apart by Morrigan/Doom/Vergil.

    He found a team that fights MorriDoom well. You guys had half a decade theory crafting how to fight MorriDoomVergil yet produced no results.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,777 mod
    YawDan wrote: »
    To be honest, I don't think Chun is really required for that team. Sure, she can avoid bullet hell, but the real problem comes from Morrigan's assist being borderline unpunishable. Harmonizer just turns that pointless stalling into something productive. I feel like you would be better off playing a stronger point character like Wolverine or Magneto and fighting normally than potentially screwing yourself via time over, which happens a few times vs ChrisG.

    Disasgree.

    RyanLV used to play Magneto/Morrigan/Phoenx as a main and secondary- I believe there's footage of him playing Chris G with the team in a previous Evo. Chun Li not only stalls better than Magneto. But can confirm off more situations than Magneto, mainly OTGs (although she can only situationally confirm of certain ground throws, With Mags able to confirm off all throws). Wolverine isn't capable of running away to anywhere near a basic degree. And is not strong enough on point to fight Morridoom with no neutral assist like Chun is on his team. M.O.D.O.K, Trish, Storm, Thor are closer substitutes. But can not replicate all of Chun LI's stregnths to the same degree she can.

    Furthermore, RyanLV does not struggle Chris G's teams at all. Can hardly say he screwed himself against Chris G, when he's beaten him convincingly in every time they faced eachother since Evo 16, other than NCR. But then continued beating him after his short break from majors.

    MorriDoom's strength in keeping people out becomes it's weakness against LV's team which tries to stay out to build meter for Phoenix. And LV is adept enough in engaging that he can deal with Morrigan's direct approach. And lands clean hits on her and Vergil, both of which should not be happening, especially when they are backed by neutral assists.

    LV's team just straight beats Chris G's.

    Just to add to this. With Wolverine or Morrigan on point, the team loses one of its more powerful counter-tools to ChrisG's team - the counter-stall. MorriDoom sets up this challenge that is the bullet hell that the opposing player needs to get past before they can even fight normally. With Chun however, Ryan can just negate that challenge with his own challenge with Chun's stalling, forcing Chris to be the one to try to get past that to play normally.
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