KOR'S Petition's for Tag 2. Can this apply for other fighters?

Bushin ClanBushin Clan Say it with ya Chest!Joined: Posts: 409
Below is KOR's Petition for Tag 2. His main point is focused on damage scaling making it too easy for newcomers or average players to win out. Can this apply for other fighters? Or is this just the beginning or sign of Pro Players losing?


[SIZE=14px]Why I feel Tekken Tag Tournament 2 should be changed to a 3/5 Tournament Standard, Just like UMVC3.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]Just like every game out there, players put their heart into practicing, their money into traveling, and their time into becoming the best; as a competitive gamer there is nothing more than I would like is to see a return on the time I put into gaming. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]That return is simple, winning. I can speak for the FGC when I say, it surely is disheartening to travel 5 miles to over 1000 miles, pay to enter a tournament and then lose in the most non-gratifying way as possible. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]This change to a better format will yield more players to attend tournaments and events, the love for the game and the urge to compete and become the best is leveled fairly and not heavily favored in an unfavorable play style.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]For those who may believe that is a plea or an excuse of top players for losing, you’re wrong. I’ve been to several TTT2 majors, gotten this opinion from novice to intermediate to top players, spoken to international players, and have studied the game in and out. This opinion is strong within our community, I have been playing for over 7 years and no Tekken in the past has needed this change until now.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]I feel tournament organizers should implement 3/5 games as a tournament standard for TTT2. My reasons are the following:[/SIZE]
  • Tekken has always had smaller turnouts in numbers in comparison to that of UMVC3 and SF4 AE, and even other Capcom and Namco games. The 3/5 game standard would not run longer than any other 2D game [even when run at 2/3].
  • Surely the rounds are 80 seconds, and could last a long time, but also can be found on the other end of the spectrum with matches running by so fast. The 3 games can be over with as little as 9 full combos and a mix-up.
  • Combo damage is just too high in TTT2, as simple as a couple of hits and then one launch to Tag Assault and then wall combo can be the end of the round (without being able to even hit the tag button), and with more moves leading to a combo potential- Tekken players know this, and when it does happen, you know you never lost to the player, but to the game. This is not what it means to be competitive fighting pro gamer.
  • The momentum of the game can shift so fast, away from you, just like UMVC3. it’s not about option selection like Street Fighter, there is not ONE clear cut answer to every situation, there are several. A player who plays without fear, calculation or knowledge is in a complete gamble of his win, it could work out for him or it could completely throw him into a loss; the other competitor is playing extremely cautious because of knowledge and calculation but falls to a launcher and loses a round, having to play catch up with the life. Tekken was never this risky, and even with two characters, the risk factor is weighted heavily on the player who plays without fear, knowledge and calculation.
  • Tekken is a game of calculation, adaptation, sometimes taking necessary risk without much reward, and taking unnecessary risk for much reward. Some call it the chess of fighting games. I think a game with such an element of intellect should be played at a set which displays the finer talent of the competitors rather than who can find openings for a launch.
  • We want the scene to grow and 2/3 game format is killing off our established players, which in turn, is slowly diminishing the amount of new players to step in the scene. Established players know how to play, and when they lose in such a manor, their morale to continue on falls strongly. We need our players to feel they were not cheated out of a win.
  • Tournament organizers should want a 3/5 tournament format for Tekken. You have better matches, more rewarded victories, you have players coming back for a taste of vengeance rather than players who feel that the state of the game is not worth their time.
[SIZE=14px]I honestly feel just like how tournaments like Major League Gaming, Kumite in Tennessee [KIT] who have implemented a 3/5 tournament standard for Tekken Tag 2, more tournaments would be worth attending. It is a law of statistics though that smaller sets will be more random. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]We can pay to travel and join with the peace of mind that we will lose because we didn’t adapt in time, not because we lost to the game system, and walk away with knowing why I lost, and how to come back stronger.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]Let’s try to keep the scene alive, get more players to attend and play a fair game. Let’s make our tournaments more exciting where the strongest players will make it to the end and the perpetual valor to continue traveling and become the best in this competitive game a force.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]Thanks,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]KOR and the Tekken Community[/SIZE]
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Comments

  • tatakitataki Non-SF4/MVC3 FG news: twitter.com/#!/novriltataki Joined: Posts: 7,251 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is more of an issue in 3D fighting games than in 2D. (With UMVC3 being an exception.)
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  • Monster637Monster637 Rage Trigger Joined: Posts: 1,104 ✭✭
    lol he should have adressed the real problem the rage system and why he is getting blown up and sent it to the correct people namco bandai..3 games is what 9 rounds to make excuses you need more time to download your comp. if you got blown up 9 x the guy was better deal with it
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  • scytheavatarscytheavatar Joined: Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭
    [*]Tekken has always had smaller turnouts in numbers in comparison to that of UMVC3 and SF4 AE, and even other Capcom and Namco games. The 3/5 game standard would not run longer than any other 2D game [even when run at 2/3].

    A 3/5 TTT2 top 8 would take freaking forever, it takes at least 2 1/2 hours to finish a TTT2 top 8. While a UMvC3 and AE top 8 usually take around 2 hours to finish.
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  • RECESSIONTIMERECESSIONTIME clever title Joined: Posts: 696 ✭✭✭
    First of all this thread should be in the TTT2 forum

    Secondly yes 3/5 would take forever like monster637 mentioned and besides zero fucks are given for "petition" on a facebook page.
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  • ironboy89ironboy89 Beep Boop Beep Joined: Posts: 4,659 ✭✭✭
    UMVC3 is the only game that compare the problems that Tekken Tag currently faces.

    That's mostly due to Eighting being incompetent as hell with UMVC3. Since MVC2 had similar format conditions, and you didn't need 3/5 to figure out who was the better player.


    As for Tekken, this has been a problem with 3d fighter problem than 2d one.
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  • Darklightjg1Darklightjg1 Dr. SuessLight Joined: Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭✭
    It shouldn't be 3/5 matches. You have way more time to figure out your opponent currently (with your full team intact) than you do in UMVC3. It's already 3/5 rounds, so you have a minimum of 6 rounds and a potential of 15 rounds to play out the set. A damage boost isn't really changing that and if there's a problem with the damage boost he should address that... not make tournaments linger on longer than they should (by potentially 10 more fucking rounds each set).

    You don't really get this in MVC3 because a round IS a match and the damage overall in that game or some teams falling apart when losing one key member could make those rounds/matches end insanely quick and you'd be less likely to figure ANYTHING out. I think the extra match is more justified in that regard. Currently no other games being played at tournaments right now really need more matches imo.
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  • KayameKayame REPENT!BOOM! Joined: Posts: 549
    I only watch tekken and Already think it takes too long at high level because it usually goes to the 5th round
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  • LouiscipherLouiscipher The man you love to hate Joined: Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Isn't Kor that guy who used a scrub Akuma on Cross Assault and got stomped by Renic?
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  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,735 mod
    of course this can apply to other fighters, its statistics. the best format is always just going to whatever balance between minimal randomness and tedium the community wants.
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  • d3vd3v The Grumpy Machine. Joined: Posts: 26,714 mod
    I've heard some folk talk about a mixed format for their games. 2/3 for pools, 3/5 for finals (or even top 8).
    For me, SF4 got fighting games backward - combos are supposed to be easy and reversals are supposed to be hard.
    -Mike_Z

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  • Lord_RaptorLord_Raptor Joined: Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've heard some folk talk about a mixed format for their games. 2/3 for pools, 3/5 for finals (or even top 8).
    I'm not a fan of mixed, that shit is stupid, have that shit stay the same till GFs.
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  • DavDzDavDz Joined: Posts: 464
    lol he should have adressed the real problem Tekken 6's gameplay system


    As far as I see it, Tag 2 has the same problems as Tekken 6 if not more so, with the bound combos and rage
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  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,013 ✭✭✭
    Marvel is 1 game = 1 round

    Tekken is 1 game = 3/5 rounds
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  • RoGE9RoGE9 Joined: Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭✭
    For 2/3 there's 6-9 rounds and 12-18 health bars, you guys should be able to work with that. 3/5 tournaments for tag 2 would take forever.
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  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,013 ✭✭✭
    why didn't he suggest upping to 4/7 rounds?
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
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  • Conrad09Conrad09 Joined: Posts: 37
    I only play Tekken and 2/3 is fine imo.
    I was at KiT last weekend and it ran 3/5 for all. There were 64 total participants and the tournament didn't start until around 2:30pm and didn't finish until about 10:45pm. That's 8 hours for a 64 man bracket. Now I personally didn't mind having to play 3/5 since that gave me an extra match to adapt and possibly come back.
    I guess since Tekken was the main game at KiT then 3/5 is ok, but for tournaments like FR and EVO running 3/5 would go on way too long (especially since those tournaments have not only large Capcom crowds, but there's the possibility of having more Tekken entrants).
    Japan and Korea both run 2/3 iirc. I don't see the problem.
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  • Monster637Monster637 Rage Trigger Joined: Posts: 1,104 ✭✭
    I've heard some folk talk about a mixed format for their games. 2/3 for pools, 3/5 for finals (or even top 8).
    and that make sence just like champoinship fights for belts usually have more rounds n combat sports, if he s asking for the grand finals or top 8 i understand, but if he is talking everyone, i get why he wants it,but if your not in the top 8 do you deserve it , i agree it should be done for losers finals and grand, but im nobody
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  • Monster637Monster637 Rage Trigger Joined: Posts: 1,104 ✭✭
    As far as I see it, Tag 2 has the same problems as Tekken 6 if not more so, with the bound combos and rage
    i agree, i love the game wish i could put more time into playing it then casually , as some one who was about 12 13 when tekken 1 came out, i would love to see it back to more of a pick your shots boxing match game then juggle the ball across the screen. i know why he is butt hurt, get touched then juggled across the screen then there partner comes in with rage that now 3 hits takes the other 50% of your life, rage was ruff in 6 , but in tag fuck , you can get it over an over and get blown up by it over an over more then once in a round if ya survive......them the breaks
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  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭✭
    9/17 rounds....it's the only way to know for sure who the best is!
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  • tatakitataki Non-SF4/MVC3 FG news: twitter.com/#!/novriltataki Joined: Posts: 7,251 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Isn't Kor that guy who used a scrub Akuma on Cross Assault and got stomped by Renic?
    But in Tekken (the game this thread is about) he took 1st place at EVO. So what's the point of your post?
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  • Monster637Monster637 Rage Trigger Joined: Posts: 1,104 ✭✭
    But in Tekken (the game this thread is about) he took 1st place at EVO. So what's the point of your post?
    i remeber, but i think all most people remember is a long ass boring bob on bob mirror match and sheeps,i pray this year the top 8 have diverse teams
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  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm just going to point out that to those referencing Tekken and saying Marvel's usually not that long, in EVO last year UMVC3 was actually the longest top 8 and wound up going even longer than KOFXIII did.
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  • LordJimLordJim Taking it easy Joined: Posts: 1,017 ✭✭
    They were both pretty much 2 hours and 40+ minutes
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  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LordJim said:

    They were both pretty much 2 hours and 40+ minutes

    Yeah, I know. It was just a matter of KOF being like 2:45:30 and UMVC3 being like 2:48:00. I was moreso just saying that Marvel can take longer than people think or expect and hat games expected to take long can well, not take as long.

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  • Kalyx triaDKalyx triaD Serious Business Joined: Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭
    There's a couple of points in that petition that I take issue with. Long story short; it just seems kinda salty, no offense.
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