Can skills be "transferable"?

D'ohryuken

I recently started playing older SF games on GGPO and that has been my first regular contact with other players. Until then versing people was very rare for me, in any fighting game. I usually just kept playing against the AI.

But the game that I really want to get good at is SF4, but I can't play that online. So, with that in mind, would you say that what I learn playing Super Turbo or Alpha 2 online can be "transferred", at least partially, to SF4? I obviously don't mean everything, since they're all whole different animals, but at least the experience of versing people, learning from and adapting to them, could that be applicable to SF4 even if I'm not really playing SF4?

I'd appreciate your inputs and thank them in advance.

TonyTheLion

Why do you feel they're "whole different animals?" What are the biggest differences you see, in your opinion? Aside from graphics and, i guess, focus attacks.

eltrouble

D'ohryuken, post: 7948452, member: 70247 wrote:

I recently started playing older SF games on GGPO and that has been my first regular contact with other players. Until then versing people was very rare for me, in any fighting game. I usually just kept playing against the AI.

But the game that I really want to get good at is SF4, but I can't play that online. So, with that in mind, would you say that what I learn playing Super Turbo or Alpha 2 online can be "transferred", at least partially, to SF4? I obviously don't mean everything, since they're all whole different animals, but at least the experience of versing people, learning from and adapting to them, could that be applicable to SF4 even if I'm not really playing SF4?

I'd appreciate your inputs and thank them in advance.

The basic skills will be somewhat transferable. Fundamentals like spacing, defense, feeling game momentum, player psychology, will be similar between any Street Fighter games. The main things that you'll have to get used to is the new game engine and its mechanics....which is a pretty large shift. So although the basic skill set is transferable, it will take time to understand the most effective way to play the game, especially when you have limited access to live competition.

D'ohryuken

TonyTheLion, post: 7949472, member: 83713 wrote:

Why do you feel they're "whole different animals?" What are the biggest differences you see, in your opinion? Aside from graphics and, i guess, focus attacks.

Well, to be honest, I don't know how to really describe the differences, but I'll do my best.

ST, for starters, is a pretty unforgiving game. Comparing its reversal window to SF4's is like comparing the eye of a needle to a tunnel. Add to that the amount of damage that you dish out and take in ST, plus the almost complete lack of comeback mechanics (sorry if I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, I still don't fully understand what "comeback mechanics" are) make it a much tougher game than SF4.

Alpha 2 is very different as well, what with the AC's and CC's and all that. And 3S as well, with the parrying system.

Hopefully I managed to explain it at least somewhat decently.

eltrouble, post: 7949536, member: 50728 wrote:

The basic skills will be somewhat transferable. Fundamentals like spacing, defense, feeling game momentum, player psychology, will be similar between any Street Fighter games. The main things that you'll have to get used to is the new game engine and its mechanics....which is a pretty large shift. So although the basic skill set is transferable, it will take time to understand the most effective way to play the game, especially when you have limited access to live competition.

That's good to know. At least now I know I'm not just playing for fun and at least learning something, albeit in a smaller fraction.

Btw, why is ST so non-scrub friendly? I keep eating meaties like it's going out of style because I can't reversal anything. :(

PointBreak91

Alpha 2? The Brazilians are still on there? Just pick Rose and slam on crouching medium punch as much as possible. If they jump at you, just do crouch hard punch. When you get meter, learn how to activate the custom combos into a sweep, damage and juggle ender. You can also just do her quarter circle back x 2 kick super and press buttons to take damage even if they block. Do lots of spaced sliding with as well, to set up throws and close distance. Practice clutch reflecting those fireballs, or suck 'em up from range for meter. If you're gonna jump (she doesn't really need to), cross up medium kick has a pretty big hit-box you can combo from. You have to be careful poking to much in this game, because Alpha Counter was still really good in it (uses one segment of bar).

ST, I would go with a charge character like Rog. His rising head-butt should come out no problem on a well maintained stick. Soon pop people offa ya, and get them to respect your wake-up.

eltrouble

D'ohryuken, post: 7950800, member: 70247 wrote:

That's good to know. At least now I know I'm not just playing for fun and at least learning something, albeit in a smaller fraction.

Btw, why is ST so non-scrub friendly? I keep eating meaties like it's going out of style because I can't reversal anything. :(

ST is very unforgiving compared to newer games. Reversal timing in that game is 1 frame, whereas in SF4, it's 5 frames. That's a pretty considerable difference. Also consider that ST has significantly less input shortcuts and leniency than most other guys, so it's pretty strict on execution and timing.

1 thing you can learn to help land reversals reliably is to learn how to piano the inputs. Short of that, if you can't nail the timing down just yet, you're better off just blocking, and do your best to avoid being put in bad situations (i.e. being knocked down).

AirLancer

D'ohryuken, post: 7950800, member: 70247 wrote:

ST, for starters, is a pretty unforgiving game. Comparing its reversal window to SF4's is like comparing the eye of a needle to a tunnel. Add to that the amount of damage that you dish out and take in ST, plus the almost complete lack of comeback mechanics (sorry if I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, I still don't fully understand what "comeback mechanics" are) make it a much tougher game than SF4.

Hopefully I managed to explain it at least somewhat decently.

:(

That's good to know. At least now I know I'm not just playing for fun and at least learning something, albeit in a smaller fraction.

Btw, why is ST so non-scrub friendly? I keep eating meaties like it's going out of style because I can't reversal anything.

A comeback mechanic is a game mechanic that makes it easier for the losing player to come back against the winning player. Examples of this are Ultras in SF4 (since Ultra meter is gained by taking damage), X-Factor in Marvel 3 (gets stronger the fewer characters you have), Tekken's Rage mechanic (characters with little life do more damage), and Awakening in Persona (characters with health below a certain amount get increased defense/access to a super they can only use in this mode). Hell, super moves were considered a comeback mechanic. Consider the fact that in Art of Fighting, the first game to have super moves, they were called Desperation Moves.

eltrouble

Some would argue that ST's super system is a form of a 'comeback' mechanic. I don't like it there either, even though it's only giving whenever you land hits or perform special moves.

PointBreak91

[SIZE=12px]"ST Revival Website: [/SIZE][SIZE=12px]http://www.strevival.com/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12px]Socal ST Facebook Page: [/SIZE][SIZE=12px]https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/347729651958160/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12px]Socal ST Scene Footage: [/SIZE][SIZE=12px]http://www.youtube.com/eltrouble[/SIZE]"

Go play Hyper Fighting old man

eltrouble

PointBreak91, post: 7954048, member: 21026 wrote:

[SIZE=12px]"ST Revival Website: [/SIZE][SIZE=12px]http://www.strevival.com/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12px]Socal ST Facebook Page: [/SIZE][SIZE=12px]https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/347729651958160/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12px]Socal ST Scene Footage: [/SIZE][SIZE=12px]http://www.youtube.com/eltrouble[/SIZE]"

Go play Hyper Fighting old man

I actually love Hyper Fighting. I'd play it more often if there was still a competitive scene and tournaments in my area. But no tournaments = no motivation to play the game, and I can't stand playing online.

I actually think ST as a whole is better designed and more polished than HF. There are flaws with the game, but overall, it's an extremely good and competitive game that has definitely withstood the test of time better than any other fighting game out there.

PointBreak91

Comeback mechanic in the first 4 SFII games was a very deep jumping Fierce. Probably why Tomo Guile kept the whole country free. Today you'd have an army of kids begging Capcom for any kind of get-out-of-jail meter option. A3 was arguably where the shark truly jumped if you think about activation invincibility blow-through, crouch cancel and OTG combos that became ToDs, and of course, starting with full bar. Heck of an infectious downward spiral ever since. Rage gauge, X-Ray, X-factor, Ultra, jeez, VF is pretty much the only game left standing where if you beat the other guy down, he stays down.

Rezza-rekshon!

eltrouble

PointBreak91, post: 7956939, member: 21026 wrote:

Comeback mechanic in the first 4 SFII games was a very deep jumping Fierce. Probably why Tomo Guile kept the whole country free.

He kept most of the country free because of his insane reactions and fundamentals with Ryu and Guile.

Comeback mechanic in the early SF2 games was having your friend wrestle the guy who was about to win, so that you can do free combos on him. Rough times.

PointBreak91

"If you keep looking at mah hands jagoff, you ain't ever coming back to this arcade!!"

D'ohryuken

Thank you all for your explanations on comeback mechanics; thank you, also, for your patience in dealing with a noob/scrub.

Greatly appreciated.