ver. 2013 Combo Editor Thread

SPECTERLIGHTSPECTERLIGHT Hear with The Third Eye Receptor...Joined: Posts: 701
For those that are curious or wish to learn about how it works, feel free to ask. I am not the expert on this thing, but I have fooled with it and understand it well.
I edited one of desk's Lars combos with it and it actually measures time between moves BY FRAME. It also allows you to stop a Combo on hit, on block or on miss, so it could be an invaluable tool for training because you can set up situations to the frame and react accordingly. I estimate you could record the combo in training mode.
It does take time to edit a combo, but if you couldn't execute an opponent's combo for recording in training mode, you may be able to Combo Edit and then use it in training mode.

I figured that to do a jump-in (HP in this case), an early one is around 30 frames, but less than 35, so I expect meaty to be 33 or 34 frames, maybe.

In some ways this thing has great potential for good, but I can see it being used by some who are lazy in terms of learning actual execution and muscle memory.

I personally will NOT use this in matches.
I will definitely look into using it for training mode though...

UPDATE: you CAN use QC in training mode, and thus can record them. This opens up a new option in training mode to learn how to react to certain combos & block strings as well as what to do when your opponent stops a combo on hit, miss or block.
Disciplines: Bushin-Ryu-Ninpo, Street Fighting, Demonology, IGA Ninjitsu, Bushido, Alchemy, English Boxing, Wing Chun, Shaolin Gung Fu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Igyo Tenshin-no-Jutsu, SFCQC, Swordplay, Garou Ryū MMA, Kusanagi Ryū Kobujutsu, Yagami M.Arts, Gun Kata...
“There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” 武神

RIN-PYOU-TOU-SHA-KAI-JIN-RETSU-ZAI-ZEN

Comments

  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
  • DooplissDoopliss T.Rawk Joined: Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭
    Can you do 3-bar combos in training mode with this?
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Gotta Patch 'Em All!" an USFIV Old Character Combo Video
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    Just put the bar on infinite and I would assume so.
  • DooplissDoopliss T.Rawk Joined: Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭
    It's possible the game won't allow you to make combos that you can't possibly perform in a real match, which is why I'm asking.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Gotta Patch 'Em All!" an USFIV Old Character Combo Video
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    Can you use Hwoarang's Flamingo transitions after his strings (hold forward)? Can you also crouch cancel them?
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • SPECTERLIGHTSPECTERLIGHT Hear with The Third Eye Receptor... Joined: Posts: 701
    Can you do 3-bar combos in training mode with this?
    Akuma has a preset combo that ends in Misogi, which I used in training mode with the bar set to infinite as the "scruffy-looking" ;) Nerfherder wisely suggested and sure enough, the QC does execute. Strangely enough, that particular combo doesn't connect like it used to, probably due to the new changes, but it does execute.
    I also tried King's preset ending in Mexican super and it works. And for my man Roknin, both of Juri's Kaisen preset QCs. Yes, they work!!!
    Can you use Hwoarang's Flamingo transitions after his strings (hold forward)? Can you also crouch cancel them?
    I put together this combo (st.LK>MK>f, FLA MK>LK xx qcb+KK, [...] (412/398/383) - uses 1 bar) from the Hwo 2013 Combo thread (which you initiated ;) ) :
    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/hwoarang-combo-thread-2013.175293/
    and it works fine, though it doesn't combo from L & H Smash K Combo on an Auto-Block dummy. You MUST put motion switch (flamingo) in the editor or it won't transition into FLA.

    Then I tried this one from the same thread:
    FLA MK>LK>df, cr.LP-st.MK>MK>HK xx 214HK (309) - requires standing opponent and should be hit-confirmed on the first hit*
    IT works, but also does NOT combo from Fire Storm (FLA MK.LK) to cr.LP on an auto-block dummy. I am not sure if this is a crouch cancel combo because I have limited (though mad fun!) experience with Hwo.
    Also, the Editor only has crouch as a movement, it doesn't have df or db as options, so I am not sure if I am editing the combo with the exact frames or not.

    An interesting thing I noticed/thought of, is that you can view the build of the preset combos to give you an idea of how the Editor works in terms of frames between moves and generally constructing combos. This feature is becoming a VERY useful tool to improve and experiment combos/gameplay, imo.
    Disciplines: Bushin-Ryu-Ninpo, Street Fighting, Demonology, IGA Ninjitsu, Bushido, Alchemy, English Boxing, Wing Chun, Shaolin Gung Fu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Igyo Tenshin-no-Jutsu, SFCQC, Swordplay, Garou Ryū MMA, Kusanagi Ryū Kobujutsu, Yagami M.Arts, Gun Kata...
    “There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” 武神

    RIN-PYOU-TOU-SHA-KAI-JIN-RETSU-ZAI-ZEN
  • DooplissDoopliss T.Rawk Joined: Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭
    Akuma has a preset combo that ends in Misogi, which I used in training mode with the bar set to infinite as the "scruffy-looking" ;) Nerfherder wisely suggested and sure enough, the QC does execute. Strangely enough, that particular combo doesn't connect like it used to, probably due to the new changes, but it does execute.
    I also tried King's preset ending in Mexican super and it works. And for my man Roknin, both of Juri's Kaisen preset QCs. Yes, they work!!!
    Those are just 2-bar combos though. I mean combos that costs 3 bars if executed manually, like an EX move into Super.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Gotta Patch 'Em All!" an USFIV Old Character Combo Video
  • SPECTERLIGHTSPECTERLIGHT Hear with The Third Eye Receptor... Joined: Posts: 701
    Those are just 2-bar combos though. I mean combos that costs 3 bars if executed manually, like an EX move into Super.
    Ahh, I get you. :) The answer to your question is:

    YES!!!!
    Excitement!!! You MUST set the gauge to infinite.
    This was tested with Chun-Li's EX Spinning Bird Kick xx Super (Which will only connect when you are facing the corner, about 1/3 of the screen from the corner.)
    The editor will have the amount of gauge required in red when you put the combo together, but it will work when previewing the move and thus, also in training mode!!!
    Good thinking Doop!!
    Disciplines: Bushin-Ryu-Ninpo, Street Fighting, Demonology, IGA Ninjitsu, Bushido, Alchemy, English Boxing, Wing Chun, Shaolin Gung Fu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Igyo Tenshin-no-Jutsu, SFCQC, Swordplay, Garou Ryū MMA, Kusanagi Ryū Kobujutsu, Yagami M.Arts, Gun Kata...
    “There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” 武神

    RIN-PYOU-TOU-SHA-KAI-JIN-RETSU-ZAI-ZEN
  • DooplissDoopliss T.Rawk Joined: Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭
    Ahh, I get you. :) The answer to your question is:

    YES!!!!
    Excitement!!! You MUST set the gauge to infinite.
    This was tested with Chun-Li's EX Spinning Bird Kick xx Super (Which will only connect when you are facing the corner, about 1/3 of the screen from the corner.)
    The editor will have the amount of gauge required in red when you put the combo together, but it will work when previewing the move and thus, also in training mode!!!
    Good thinking Doop!!
    That's nice, that means you can use it as an in-game PPad if your execution is not up to par. Also to program complex patterns for dummies.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Gotta Patch 'Em All!" an USFIV Old Character Combo Video
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    I put together this combo (st.LK>MK>f, FLA MK>LK xx qcb+KK, [...] (412/398/383) - uses 1 bar) from the Hwo 2013 Combo thread (which you initiated ;) ) :
    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/hwoarang-combo-thread-2013.175293/
    and it works fine, though it doesn't combo from L & H Smash K Combo on an Auto-Block dummy. You MUST put motion switch (flamingo) in the editor or it won't transition into FLA.

    Then I tried this one from the same thread:
    FLA MK>LK>df, cr.LP-st.MK>MK>HK xx 214HK (309) - requires standing opponent and should be hit-confirmed on the first hit*
    IT works, but also does NOT combo from Fire Storm (FLA MK.LK) to cr.LP on an auto-block dummy. I am not sure if this is a crouch cancel combo because I have limited (though mad fun!) experience with Hwo.
    Also, the Editor only has crouch as a movement, it doesn't have df or db as options, so I am not sure if I am editing the combo with the exact frames or not.
    It seems like what the game is doing is simply waiting for the strings to recover and then following it up with Motion Switch (KKK). This is different from using the built-in transitions (holding forward) because they make him recover faster than normal. It's kind of unfortunate if these types of combos don't work, as I was struggling to execute a certain combo that I found and was hoping that playing with the quick combo editor might be able to offer some insight on how it must be executed.
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • DooplissDoopliss T.Rawk Joined: Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭
    So, no Xiaoyu crouch cancels then?
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Gotta Patch 'Em All!" an USFIV Old Character Combo Video
  • SPECTERLIGHTSPECTERLIGHT Hear with The Third Eye Receptor... Joined: Posts: 701
    It seems like what the game is doing is simply waiting for the strings to recover and then following it up with Motion Switch (KKK). This is different from using the built-in transitions (holding forward) because they make him recover faster than normal. It's kind of unfortunate if these types of combos don't work, as I was struggling to execute a certain combo that I found and was hoping that playing with the quick combo editor might be able to offer some insight on how it must be executed.

    True. However, I had all the settings on auto, and didn't assign a certain number of frames to transpire between moves. It may be that the crouch cancel combos won't work. If you can type out the combo notation, with frames in between moves (I know it's a pain) then I can put them together and see if they work.
    The editor does allow you to control the number of frames between moves, down to 1 frame, so I am hopeful we can figure a way to make these combos work. I will look in the BradyGuide to see if there is frame info and/or other data that may help. I just hope it isn't all outdated.
    Disciplines: Bushin-Ryu-Ninpo, Street Fighting, Demonology, IGA Ninjitsu, Bushido, Alchemy, English Boxing, Wing Chun, Shaolin Gung Fu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Igyo Tenshin-no-Jutsu, SFCQC, Swordplay, Garou Ryū MMA, Kusanagi Ryū Kobujutsu, Yagami M.Arts, Gun Kata...
    “There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” 武神

    RIN-PYOU-TOU-SHA-KAI-JIN-RETSU-ZAI-ZEN
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    True. However, I had all the settings on auto, and didn't assign a certain number of frames to transpire between moves. It may be that the crouch cancel combos won't work. If you can type out the combo notation, with frames in between moves (I know it's a pain) then I can put them together and see if they work.
    The editor does allow you to control the number of frames between moves, down to 1 frame, so I am hopeful we can figure a way to make these combos work. I will look in the BradyGuide to see if there is frame info and/or other data that may help. I just hope it isn't all outdated.
    If we have to account for hitstop, I'm not sure how long it is for these strings. As I recall, the guide says that it's generally 8 for light attacks, 10 for medium attacks, and 12 for heavy attacks. For now, I'll neglect it.

    After the st.LK>MK string, the transition input should be 20 frames after the input of the MK, and Hwoarang recovers in Flamingo stance 1 frame after that. For the FLA MK>LK string, it should similarly be 25 frames after the input of LK.

    Maybe you could make it do something like this:

    Standing LK
    Wait 7 frames
    Low & High Smash Kick Combo (MK)
    Wait 19 frames
    Walk Forward (2 frames)
    (Flamingo) Standing MK
    Wait 9 frames
    Fire Storm (LK)
    Wait 24 frames
    Walk Forward (2 frames)
    Crouching LP
    Standing MK (boost combo)
    High Kick Combo (MK>HK)
    HK Hunting Hawk
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • SPECTERLIGHTSPECTERLIGHT Hear with The Third Eye Receptor... Joined: Posts: 701
    Ok. So I just returned to forums after some testing. (Prior to Dr. G's post above mine) Here's what I discovered...

    With the Hwo combo: FLA MK>LK>df, cr.LP-st.MK>MK>HK xx 214HK (309) - requires standing opponent and should be hit-confirmed on the first hit*

    I entered it into the combo editor like this (bear with me):
    * = (FLA MK>LK) = Fire Storm 1 & 2
    + = (st.MK>MK>HK)
    Motion Switch (Flamingo) - Fire Storm 1 - Fire Storm 2* (here I set the frame timer to 1) - Motion Switch (Flamingo) - (once again set the frame timer to 1) - crLP - Mid. K Combo 1 - Mid. K Combo 2 - Mid K Combo 3+ - Hunting Hawk (H)
    It doesn't combo from Fire Storm to cr LP. I think this is because here, the crouch cancel requires a df motion and there are no options for just directions, they are all movement commands, (i.e. move forward, vert. jump, forward jump, etc).

    Then I tried this Xiaoyu combo:
    crHK>Phx> j.HK (diagonal), crHP>Rain Dance>KK (EX Mistrust)
    I entered it like this:
    crHK - (frame timer to 1) - Phx - Forward Jump - (frame timer to 8) - HK (there is no j.Hk option) - crHP )frame timer to 1) - Rain Dance - Mistrust (EX)
    And that actually connects on an auto-block oppoent, though the combo requires a jumping or airborne opponent to work in the first place.
    But I don't think this is a crouch cancel, but probably a Jump Cancel.

    Any regular hyphen notation means the timer was set to Auto, unless mentioned.
    You may set the frame timer to 999.

    I then tried Dr. G's combo and it doesn't work because entering that many frames, (if it is indeed frames and not seconds that the clock counts) has too much time elapsing between moves. I tried entering it like this:
    Motion Switch (Flamingo) - Fire Storm 1 - Fire Storm 2* (here I set the frame timer to 1) - Motion Switch (Flamingo) - (once again set the frame timer to 1) - crLP - MK - High Kick Combo 2 - High Kick Combo 3 (you can go from 2 to 3 without 1 and the editor will do it) - Hunting Hawk (H)
    Once again, Fire Storm won't combo to crLP on an auto-block dummy. :(

    Perhaps the crouch cancels won't work, merely because there are no simple direction options, such as toward, back, down, up, df, db. They have dash, backdash, but no simple directions.
    Disciplines: Bushin-Ryu-Ninpo, Street Fighting, Demonology, IGA Ninjitsu, Bushido, Alchemy, English Boxing, Wing Chun, Shaolin Gung Fu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Igyo Tenshin-no-Jutsu, SFCQC, Swordplay, Garou Ryū MMA, Kusanagi Ryū Kobujutsu, Yagami M.Arts, Gun Kata...
    “There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” 武神

    RIN-PYOU-TOU-SHA-KAI-JIN-RETSU-ZAI-ZEN
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    In that case, it must be counting the frames starting from when the character has recovered, rather than counting the frames between inputs.
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • SPECTERLIGHTSPECTERLIGHT Hear with The Third Eye Receptor... Joined: Posts: 701
    That is it! The editor will allow a move to finish before it reads the next input. Makes sense, and when I watch it when previewing a combo(which you can do to ensure it works), this becomes evident.
    Now, when I used the vanilla editor, I skirted some of the flaws by building a combo and then doing inputs myself before having the editor finish a combo. Yet it sounds like it won't suit your purpose based on it not being able to execute the crouch cancels. Perhaps we may lobby for this feature in a future update.
    What is the combo you are trying to gain insight into? I'm mad curious.
    Disciplines: Bushin-Ryu-Ninpo, Street Fighting, Demonology, IGA Ninjitsu, Bushido, Alchemy, English Boxing, Wing Chun, Shaolin Gung Fu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Igyo Tenshin-no-Jutsu, SFCQC, Swordplay, Garou Ryū MMA, Kusanagi Ryū Kobujutsu, Yagami M.Arts, Gun Kata...
    “There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” 武神

    RIN-PYOU-TOU-SHA-KAI-JIN-RETSU-ZAI-ZEN
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    That is it! The editor will allow a move to finish before it reads the next input. Makes sense, and when I watch it when previewing a combo(which you can do to ensure it works), this becomes evident.
    Now, when I used the vanilla editor, I skirted some of the flaws by building a combo and then doing inputs myself before having the editor finish a combo. Yet it sounds like it won't suit your purpose based on it not being able to execute the crouch cancels. Perhaps we may lobby for this feature in a future update.
    What is the combo you are trying to gain insight into? I'm mad curious.

    Okay, here is the combo:

    f+HK, walk forward, FLA MP>MP>f, dp+HP xx qcb+HK

    Without the Special Step (dp+HP), it only works in the corner, while the last hit whiffs mid-screen. With the Special Step, I managed to connect the whole thing only once so far. It's tricky because it seems like you have to buffer the DP motion at a specific timing in order to cancel the Special Step into Hunting Hawk fast enough without the input overlapping with Sky Rocket (dp+HK).
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • SPECTERLIGHTSPECTERLIGHT Hear with The Third Eye Receptor... Joined: Posts: 701
    edited February 2013
    @Dr Grammar
    Okay, so after toying around with the editor here is what I came up with:

    I set the editor to these specifications:
    Iron Heel [f+HK] (Timer: 01)
    Move Forward (Timer: 07)
    Motion Switch FLA (Timer: 01)
    Quick Kick Combo 1 (Timer: Auto)
    Quick Kick Combo 2 (Timer: 01) These are how the editor reads FLA MP>MP
    Special Step (H) (Timer: 01)
    Hunting Hawk (EX) (Timer: Auto)

    I tried to do this with the HK Hunting Hawk but it wouldn't connect from Special Step. HOWEVER, the above combo WORKS on an auto-block Ryu for 9 Hits and 308 Damage, ANYWHERE on screen, including corner. I toyed with the timer for Special Step xx Hunting Hawk and the editor has no problem canceling into it. With the settings above, you barely see the motion for SS start before HH takes over.
    Your Special Step xx Hunting Hawk may be a 1-Frame link.
    Cool looking combo. Not sure if that is what you were hoping for, but that is what I could get the editor to do. =>]
    Post edited by SPECTERLIGHT on
    Disciplines: Bushin-Ryu-Ninpo, Street Fighting, Demonology, IGA Ninjitsu, Bushido, Alchemy, English Boxing, Wing Chun, Shaolin Gung Fu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Igyo Tenshin-no-Jutsu, SFCQC, Swordplay, Garou Ryū MMA, Kusanagi Ryū Kobujutsu, Yagami M.Arts, Gun Kata...
    “There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” 武神

    RIN-PYOU-TOU-SHA-KAI-JIN-RETSU-ZAI-ZEN
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    Having a lot of fun with the new combo editor. Finding out that Cammy's trial 20 could be an infinite if you had infinite meter. Weird thing is that I can't seem to get the quickcombo to repeat itself even though I can continue the combo by hand. Could that be because a quickcombo has a startup of its own?
    In other words does a quickcombo of say 'crouching HP' come out slower than just hitting cr. HP? Framewise I mean? That would explain a lot.
  • SPECTERLIGHTSPECTERLIGHT Hear with The Third Eye Receptor... Joined: Posts: 701
    Nerfherder wrote: »
    Having a lot of fun with the new combo editor. Finding out that Cammy's trial 20 could be an infinite if you had infinite meter. Weird thing is that I can't seem to get the quickcombo to repeat itself even though I can continue the combo by hand. Could that be because a quickcombo has a startup of its own?<br />
    In other words does a quickcombo of say 'crouching HP' come out slower than just hitting cr. HP? Framewise I mean? That would explain a lot.

    I believe it takes longer to execute, being that you have to press the buttons, then the flash and then the move starts, so I bet it doesn't execute at the same speed. Don't quote me on that, just my theory at this point.
    Disciplines: Bushin-Ryu-Ninpo, Street Fighting, Demonology, IGA Ninjitsu, Bushido, Alchemy, English Boxing, Wing Chun, Shaolin Gung Fu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Igyo Tenshin-no-Jutsu, SFCQC, Swordplay, Garou Ryū MMA, Kusanagi Ryū Kobujutsu, Yagami M.Arts, Gun Kata...
    “There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” 武神

    RIN-PYOU-TOU-SHA-KAI-JIN-RETSU-ZAI-ZEN
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    I figured something out in the combo editor. Don't know if this is common knowledge but you can CADC by holding down the quickcombo button. So with Cammy for instance I made this quickcombo:
    cr.lk x cr.lp; st.lp x st.mp x st. hp EX spiral arrow st. mp; cr. mk ; ex spiral arrow.
    I noticed I could make it safer by holding the QC button (lk+hp) and backdashing or forward dashing.

    I then made this quick combo:

    st.hp x hk spiral arrow ; forward dash ; st.hp x hk spiral arrow ; forward dash.

    If I just press the QC button the spiral arrow will hit as normal. But when I hold the QC button the spiral arrow gets CADC'ed and a dash followed by a st.hp comes out. The st. HP doesn't connect but this gave me a whole new set of ideas.
    Set the EX gauge at infinite in training mode and I can pretend to be Desk. ;-)
    Gonna try this later on:


    IF it's still possbible in ver. 2013.
  • SPECTERLIGHTSPECTERLIGHT Hear with The Third Eye Receptor... Joined: Posts: 701
    Nerfherder wrote: »
    I figured something out in the combo editor. Don't know if this is common knowledge but you can CADC by holding down the quickcombo button. So with Cammy for instance I made this quickcombo:
    cr.lk x cr.lp; st.lp x st.mp x st. hp EX spiral arrow st. mp; cr. mk ; ex spiral arrow.
    I noticed I could make it safer by holding the QC button (lk+hp) and backdashing or forward dashing.

    I then made this quick combo:

    st.hp x hk spiral arrow ; forward dash ; st.hp x hk spiral arrow ; forward dash.

    If I just press the QC button the spiral arrow will hit as normal. But when I hold the QC button the spiral arrow gets CADC'ed and a dash followed by a st.hp comes out. The st. HP doesn't connect but this gave me a whole new set of ideas.
    Set the EX gauge at infinite in training mode and I can pretend to be Desk. ;-)
    Gonna try this later on:


    IF it's still possbible in ver. 2013.

    Interesting. Do you have the Quick Combo command (LP + HK) macroed to one button?
    I'll have to mess around with this tonight and see if I can replicate what you've described. Thanks for the info! :-bd
    Disciplines: Bushin-Ryu-Ninpo, Street Fighting, Demonology, IGA Ninjitsu, Bushido, Alchemy, English Boxing, Wing Chun, Shaolin Gung Fu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Igyo Tenshin-no-Jutsu, SFCQC, Swordplay, Garou Ryū MMA, Kusanagi Ryū Kobujutsu, Yagami M.Arts, Gun Kata...
    “There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” 武神

    RIN-PYOU-TOU-SHA-KAI-JIN-RETSU-ZAI-ZEN
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    I'm doing it on the vita right now. That version has QC macro'ed to the touchscreen. So yeah. I use macros. Not on ps3 though. On a side note. The combo editor is great for making long, useless inefficient combos. I have a 30 hit combo for Cammy that does 230 damage. LOL. Including super art.
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    It doesn't seem to work as well in ver. 2013. Luckily the trials are using the pre ver. 2013 engine. During Cammy trial 16 I can do 5 st. lp until the QC is full.
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    edited March 2013
    I can get the following quick combo to infinite on a loop. I start with EX spiral arrow so that I can start a new QC right at the st. hp. If I press the QC button right when the st. hp connects I can restart the combo.

    EX Spiral arrow dash lp x hp ex spiral arrow dash lp x hp

    I set the preview dummy to auto block. The settings to counter hit. Just press QC, hold until the dash. Then press and hold QC again until the dash. Hope this all makes sense.

    Edit: it also works when counter hit is set to 'normal'. According to the guide Cammy can't store a counter hit by CADC'ing an EX SA. It does register as a counter hit though. Probably Cammy has gotten the ability to store a counter hit by CADC'ing an EX SA. Did not know that.
    Post edited by Nerfherder on
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    I just made a 100 hit combo using the combo editor. It requires infinite meter. So it's not legit. But still. I made this quickcombo: EX spiral arrow x dash x HP (3 times in a row). Press and hold the QC button. let go just before the third and final HP connects. Then press and hold the QC button again. Rinse and repeat 33 more times to get 100 hits. Does 1190 damage for 34 ex bars. LOL

    The first EX SA makes the rest a counter hit. Otherwise the combo won't work.

    I'm thinking of maybe doing a quick combo combo video. With only flashy ridiculous stuff that isn't possible in a match. Only in training.
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    Here's something I would like to know:

    With Bob, if you connect with Special Step > Langue Washer, how much leniency do you have to connect One Two Punch (st.LP > b+MP) xx LK Special Step > Spiral Rocky?
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    I don't play Bob so I don't know if I used the moves you described correctly. I Input the combo you mentioned and put everything on 'auto' except for langue washer to one two punch. At 34 frames it missed. At 33 frames it still connected. I started the combo it minimum range. Btw, the combo editor counts frames from the first frame of the previous move. According to the guide langue washer is 34 frames. That would make sense since the combo editor disregards the first frame when counting. I would guess that there is only one frame of leniency.
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    If I input less frames it still connects. The combo editor considers too few frames as an auto. So the info in the guide leads me to believe it's a one framer. Not so much the combo editor. And I don't play Bob at all. So that's no help.
  • SPECTERLIGHTSPECTERLIGHT Hear with The Third Eye Receptor... Joined: Posts: 701
    Nerfherder wrote: »
    I don't play Bob so I don't know if I used the moves you described correctly. I Input the combo you mentioned and put everything on 'auto' except for langue washer to one two punch. At 34 frames it missed. At 33 frames it still connected. I started the combo it minimum range. Btw, the combo editor counts frames from the first frame of the previous move. According to the guide langue washer is 34 frames. That would make sense since the combo editor disregards the first frame when counting. I would guess that there is only one frame of leniency.

    Interesting. Where did you find this information on the counting of frames? I'm not contesting you by any means, I just seek knowledge... ;)
    Disciplines: Bushin-Ryu-Ninpo, Street Fighting, Demonology, IGA Ninjitsu, Bushido, Alchemy, English Boxing, Wing Chun, Shaolin Gung Fu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Igyo Tenshin-no-Jutsu, SFCQC, Swordplay, Garou Ryū MMA, Kusanagi Ryū Kobujutsu, Yagami M.Arts, Gun Kata...
    “There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” 武神

    RIN-PYOU-TOU-SHA-KAI-JIN-RETSU-ZAI-ZEN
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    Nerfherder wrote: »
    I don't play Bob so I don't know if I used the moves you described correctly. I Input the combo you mentioned and put everything on 'auto' except for langue washer to one two punch. At 34 frames it missed. At 33 frames it still connected. I started the combo it minimum range. Btw, the combo editor counts frames from the first frame of the previous move. According to the guide langue washer is 34 frames. That would make sense since the combo editor disregards the first frame when counting. I would guess that there is only one frame of leniency.

    Interesting. Where did you find this information on the counting of frames? I'm not contesting you by any means, I just seek knowledge... ;)

    It's not in the manual or guide. It's in the description of the combo editor in 'options'. Choose 'options', then 'View system help', then 'The Combo Editor - detailed features'. On page 3 it says: The frame count starts from the beginning of the last move.

    I'm a Cammy main so I compared her preset Quick Combos with the guide. Her cr.lk x cr.lp; cr.mp x spiral arrow (m) combo (preset 4) has 12 frames of delay between cr. lp and cr. mp. Her cr.lp has 3 frames of startup, is active for 2 frames and has 9 frames of recovery. That's a total of 13 frames. The last startup frame and first active frame are the same according to the guide. 3+2+9=14-1=13. It would make sense for the counter to start in the frame AFTER your button press. So that would be the second frame. And that makes 12. And that is also the number Capcom used for her bnb combo. (Preset 4)

    That's how I fugured it out and checked it to make sure.
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    I'm actually on the road to completing the trials with all characters. I've completed some by hand. Without the help of the combo editor. The combo editor however has been an invaluable tool in completing them all.

    It has also shown me that the trials work with ver. 1.00 not 1.08. Nina's trial 18 (cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk x cr.mp x cr.hp x EX geyser cannon) for instance doesn't work in the combo editor preview training mode. The cr. lk won't connect. In the trials however the same quickcombo WILL connect. In ver. 1.08 (or ver. 2013 whichever you prefer) they changed the hitbox on cr. lk. Trial 18 doesn't work anymore. But to make sure people can still do the trials they change the version of the game for the trials.

    For that reason and that reason alone I don't want to learn the timing for all the trials. Seems like a waste of time to learn the timing for a move that doesn't work anywhere else. I do want all the titles though. :-)
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    edited April 2013
    Can you use Hwoarang's Flamingo transitions after his strings (hold forward)? Can you also crouch cancel them?

    Yes. You can. The combo editor is a strange thing. It took me a while to figure out. But it works as long as you do a few things.
    First: Moves that require you to hold a button also require you to hold the QUICKCOMBO button. For instance. Hwoarang's dynamite heel can be super charged. If you set the QC to dynamite heel and tap the QC button then dynamite heel will come out. If you hold the QC button dynamite heel will charge.
    Second: holding the QC button will make your character go through all of the quickcombo. Tapping the QC button will not always do this.
    Third: holding a direction can cancel a move within a quickcombo. For instance Cammy's st.cl.HK can be jump cancelled. Holding the QC button and up will cancel the st. hk.

    Putting this all together means that the following quickcombo can be used.
    FLA MK>LK>df, cr.LP-st.MK>MK>HK xx 214HK (309)

    But it needs a trick. I input the following quickcombo:
    Motion switch (flamingo) -> fire storm (1) -> fire storm (2) -> move forward (auto) -> cr. lp -> High kick combo (1) -> High kick combo (2) -> High kick combo (3) x Hunting Hawk (HK)

    It will come out but only if you HOLD the QC button AND the forward button.
    Post edited by Nerfherder on
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    Note: if you set 'move forward' for 2 frames the cr. lp will not connect. If you set it for 1 frame the cr. lp will connect. Auto obviously also makes the cr. lp connect.
    I'm assuming this trick works with the whole cast. So ANY combo should be possible. At least in training.
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2013
    Nerfherder wrote: »
    Can you use Hwoarang's Flamingo transitions after his strings (hold forward)? Can you also crouch cancel them?

    Yes. You can. The combo editor is a strange thing. It took me a while to figure out. But it works as long as you do a few things.
    First: Moves that require you to hold a button also require you to hold the QUICKCOMBO button. For instance. Hwoarang's dynamite heel can be super charged. If you set the QC to dynamite heel and tap the QC button then dynamite heel will come out. If you hold the QC button dynamite heel will charge.
    Second: holding the QC button will make your character go through all of the quickcombo. Tapping the QC button will not always do this.
    Third: holding a direction can cancel a move within a quickcombo. For instance Cammy's st.cl.HK can be jump cancelled. Holding the QC button and up will cancel the st. hk.

    Putting this all together means that the following quickcombo can be used.
    FLA MK>LK>df, cr.LP-st.MK>MK>HK xx 214HK (309)

    But it needs a trick. I input the following quickcombo:
    Motion switch (flamingo) -> fire storm (1) -> fire storm (2) -> move forward (auto) -> cr. lp -> High kick combo (1) -> High kick combo (2) -> High kick combo (3) x Hunting Hawk (HK)

    It will come out but only if you HOLD the QC button AND the forward button.

    In that case, maybe you can figure this out:

    With Hwoarang, if you do Iron Heel -> move forward (as much as possible) -> Motion Switch -> Quick Kick Combo -> stance transition, then how much leniency do you have to connect HP Special Step -> HK Hunting Hawk? This one has two places where you could potentially input something "imperfectly", one being before the Special Step, and the other being the cancel from Special Step to Hunting Hawk. Also, if you figure that one out, could you see how much of a difference it makes if you use MP Special Step instead?

    Edit: The stance transition takes off 6 frames of recovery from the Quick Kick Combo compared to its normal frame data.
    Post edited by Dr. Grammar on
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    edited April 2013
    That's an interesting combo to try out. I don't play Hwoarang but I've become very intrigued by this char now. :-)
    Btw, the combo editor is only a few bucks and I think it's totally worth it. Having said that I'm happy to try out combos.

    I tried yours and this is what I found. I input the following max. numbers in the combo editor. Numbers in brackets are the frames I input.

    Iron heel. -> auto-> move forward (16) ->motion switch (flamingo) -> auto -> quick combo 1, quick combo 2, -> move forward -> auto -> special step (no difference between l,m,h or ex) (5) -> hunting hawk.

    The first move forward has to be within 8 to 16 frames.

    The move forward after quick combo 2 is zero, one or two frames. This influences the leniency with special step.
    Special step can be 1 to 5 frames. Any type of special step. If move forward is 2 frames, then special step is 2 frames max. 1 = 3 0 =5.

    Hope I did that right. And I hope that answers your question.

    edit: you need to hold forward while inputting the QC. QC can be tapped or held. Makes no difference.
    Post edited by Nerfherder on
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for trying that out, but this doesn't seem to match up with what I've experienced while practicing this combo in training mode. Oftentimes, I get the Special Step to come out and cancel into Hunting Hawk, but the last hit of the Hunting Hawk still whiffs. This leads me to believe that if you cancel the Special Step after only a few frames, it doesn't move forward enough. Could it just be that I'm not walking forward enough before connecting the string after the ground bounce?
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    Thanks for trying that out, but this doesn't seem to match up with what I've experienced while practicing this combo in training mode. Oftentimes, I get the Special Step to come out and cancel into Hunting Hawk, but the last hit of the Hunting Hawk still whiffs. This leads me to believe that if you cancel the Special Step after only a few frames, it doesn't move forward enough. Could it just be that I'm not walking forward enough before connecting the string after the ground bounce?

    No problem.
    From what I can gather the last hit of the hunting hawk will whiff if I set the last 'move forward' at 1 or 2 frames. If set to 'auto' the last hit doesn't whiff. That leads me to believe the 'move forward' is to cancel the quick kick combo. But not to actually move forward.

    If I set the special step for 'auto' or 5 frames the last hit still connects as long as I set the last 'move forward' to 'auto'. The last hit will connect no matter how far I move forward on the first 'move forward'. At 8 frames I get the same results as with 16 frames. I think it's purely about cancelling the quick kick combo and not moving forward.

    Maybe if you time the last 'move forward' perfectly as part of the special step? That should cancel the quick kick combo and not move you forward. My execution isn't good enough to try that myself. I can't actually do it manually and get the whole thing to connect. Only with the quick combo.

    Hope this all makes sense. I just read what I wrote and it only really makes sense to me because I actually tried the combo and saw it onscreen. Maybe I'll make a youtube Quickcombo instruction video. :-)

    But seriously. Let me know if this helps.
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    Nerfherder wrote: »
    Thanks for trying that out, but this doesn't seem to match up with what I've experienced while practicing this combo in training mode. Oftentimes, I get the Special Step to come out and cancel into Hunting Hawk, but the last hit of the Hunting Hawk still whiffs. This leads me to believe that if you cancel the Special Step after only a few frames, it doesn't move forward enough. Could it just be that I'm not walking forward enough before connecting the string after the ground bounce?

    No problem.
    From what I can gather the last hit of the hunting hawk will whiff if I set the last 'move forward' at 1 or 2 frames. If set to 'auto' the last hit doesn't whiff. That leads me to believe the 'move forward' is to cancel the quick kick combo. But not to actually move forward.

    If I set the special step for 'auto' or 5 frames the last hit still connects as long as I set the last 'move forward' to 'auto'. The last hit will connect no matter how far I move forward on the first 'move forward'. At 8 frames I get the same results as with 16 frames. I think it's purely about cancelling the quick kick combo and not moving forward.

    Maybe if you time the last 'move forward' perfectly as part of the special step? That should cancel the quick kick combo and not move you forward. My execution isn't good enough to try that myself. I can't actually do it manually and get the whole thing to connect. Only with the quick combo.

    Hope this all makes sense. I just read what I wrote and it only really makes sense to me because I actually tried the combo and saw it onscreen. Maybe I'll make a youtube Quickcombo instruction video. :-)

    But seriously. Let me know if this helps.

    Okay, I admit I don't completely understand what you're saying here, but I think I'm starting to get a better understanding of what's causing me to drop the combo. It seems that I'm actually missing the timing for the stance transition, causing my Special Step not to come out soon enough and not moving anywhere before being canceled by the Hunting Hawk. Similarly, if I understand correctly, I think if you don't set the 'move forward' to 'auto', the quick combo also misses the stance transition. This is a very important part of making the whole combo connect because the Special Step needs to animate for a certain number of frames (4-5 frames?) before being canceled into Hunting Hawk to get enough forward movement, and if you miss the stance transition, there simply isn't enough time for that. Does this seem right?
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭✭
    Just curious: how many of the trials can you complete using the editor? If possible, a percentage would be great.
  • SPECTERLIGHTSPECTERLIGHT Hear with The Third Eye Receptor... Joined: Posts: 701
    Nerfherder wrote: »
    Nerfherder wrote: »
    I don't play Bob so I don't know if I used the moves you described correctly. I Input the combo you mentioned and put everything on 'auto' except for langue washer to one two punch. At 34 frames it missed. At 33 frames it still connected. I started the combo it minimum range. Btw, the combo editor counts frames from the first frame of the previous move. According to the guide langue washer is 34 frames. That would make sense since the combo editor disregards the first frame when counting. I would guess that there is only one frame of leniency.

    Interesting. Where did you find this information on the counting of frames? I'm not contesting you by any means, I just seek knowledge... ;)

    It's not in the manual or guide. It's in the description of the combo editor in 'options'. Choose 'options', then 'View system help', then 'The Combo Editor - detailed features'. On page 3 it says: The frame count starts from the beginning of the last move.

    I'm a Cammy main so I compared her preset Quick Combos with the guide. Her cr.lk x cr.lp; cr.mp x spiral arrow (m) combo (preset 4) has 12 frames of delay between cr. lp and cr. mp. Her cr.lp has 3 frames of startup, is active for 2 frames and has 9 frames of recovery. That's a total of 13 frames. The last startup frame and first active frame are the same according to the guide. 3+2+9=14-1=13. It would make sense for the counter to start in the frame AFTER your button press. So that would be the second frame. And that makes 12. And that is also the number Capcom used for her bnb combo. (Preset 4)

    That's how I fugured it out and checked it to make sure.
    Excellent! I'll take a look into that. I finally finished SSFIV Trials and will probably play AE and SFxT. If you need help with the QCE YouTube guide, let me know.
    Norieaga wrote: »
    Just curious: how many of the trials can you complete using the editor? If possible, a percentage would be great.

    I used the editor for the more challenging 1 Frame combos and even then I had to use 2 QC for some trials. This was in Vanilla though. From what I've read, (In a previous thread/post I asked about the Editor) the trials are only for Vanilla SFxT. I'm not sure how effective the editor is in it's newest incarnation, when used in the Vanilla trials.
    There were several preset QC that were actually trials, and I did a lot of the trials manually, working on execution and knowledge of the engine.
    So in Vanilla, you might be able to do (and this is only a guess) around 35% counting the presets. Unfortunately, I don't have any info about the percentage for ver2013. :(

    What you can do, is to piece the trials together. It's similar to breaking down a combo and doing it slowly and building up execution to get the entire combo. You create QCs for parts of the combo, then do a part manually, then execute another part with QC. This only works on trials that require 1 bar/section.
    You can also use one QC and do the rest manually. I did this for Christie's 17 and I think Bryan's 17.

    As Nerfherder said above, doing the trials all manually now, is mostly pointless, as the engine has changed and you are building muscle memory for non-working combos.
    Though, it would teach you overall execution and might make combos in the updated engine easier to adapt...
    Disciplines: Bushin-Ryu-Ninpo, Street Fighting, Demonology, IGA Ninjitsu, Bushido, Alchemy, English Boxing, Wing Chun, Shaolin Gung Fu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Igyo Tenshin-no-Jutsu, SFCQC, Swordplay, Garou Ryū MMA, Kusanagi Ryū Kobujutsu, Yagami M.Arts, Gun Kata...
    “There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” 武神

    RIN-PYOU-TOU-SHA-KAI-JIN-RETSU-ZAI-ZEN
  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    Using a few tricks I would say it's possible to do 100% of the trials using quickcombos. Trials that require 3 bars can be done with 3 gauge reduction gems active. A 3 bar trial requires 4 bars when done with the quickcombos. 60% gauge reduction is enough to perform 4 ex moves in a combo. Or a quickcombo with 3 bars.

    I did Cammy trial 20 with the quickcombo editor and 3 gauge gems active. I can do it manually now, but I learned the timing with the editor.

    One problem is that the preview in the combo editor is for ver. 2013. and the trials are ver. 1.00. So getting the timing right can be a pain. Zangief trial 20 took me a few back and forths. BUT ! With patience, a few tricks and time you should be able to do 100% of the trials. Some of the needed gems are dlc. I don't mind that. But some ppl would.

  • NerfherderNerfherder Joined: Posts: 341
    To be clear. The presets will only get you a few of the trials. You need the advanced combo editor to do them all.
  • SPECTERLIGHTSPECTERLIGHT Hear with The Third Eye Receptor... Joined: Posts: 701
    There weren't as many gems or variations of gems when I did the trials, so it'll probably be much easier now.
    There is also a "glitch" during trials where your Super bar will refill to max while doing a lengthy move. (Sakura's EX SRK, some of Christie's moves) I used this to my advantage when doing trials, though I didn't find it until I was 85% done. If the trials are ver1.00 then this should still be there.
    Disciplines: Bushin-Ryu-Ninpo, Street Fighting, Demonology, IGA Ninjitsu, Bushido, Alchemy, English Boxing, Wing Chun, Shaolin Gung Fu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Igyo Tenshin-no-Jutsu, SFCQC, Swordplay, Garou Ryū MMA, Kusanagi Ryū Kobujutsu, Yagami M.Arts, Gun Kata...
    “There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” 武神

    RIN-PYOU-TOU-SHA-KAI-JIN-RETSU-ZAI-ZEN
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