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Street Fighter x Tekken v2013 FRAMEDATA (incl. DLC Chars)

zUkUuzUkUu Theory ProJoined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
edited April 11 in Street Fighter x Tekken
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Ahj9eopeop0SdDltVUdvbWx4ZjFUMWNBRW1mdmFwUEE&rm
I've basically sacrificed the majority of my leisure time in the last couple of days weeks months to tidy up the framedata from the guide, apply all previous patches to it (including v2013), check almost all values of the old cast and record the framedata for the DLC characters with the help of @Street11.

I also noted and corrected any errors we have found in the guide or in the patch notes in the post below in detail. If you can contribute anything by pointing out if something is missing in the "notes" section, or an error, we'd be very grateful.
Post edited by zUkUu on
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Comments

  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,622 ✭
    I have some things to add for Hwoarang. I worked these out based on the numbers in the guide plus in-game testing, so it would be good if you could also verify them.

    Tsunami Kick > Flamingo: Command f+MK > f / Recovery 21 / Hit adv +5 / Block adv +3
    Reverse Kick > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f / Recovery 12 / Hit adv +7 / Block adv +1
    Middle Kick Combo (2) > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > f / Recovery 13 / Hit adv +6 / Block adv +1
    Middle Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > MK > f / Recovery 14 / Hit adv +2 / Block adv -1
    High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > HK > f / Recovery 20 / Hit adv +1 / Block adv -2
    Low & High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > d+LK > HK > f / Recovery 20 / Hit adv +1 / Block adv -2
    Low & High Smash Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f / Recovery 12 / Hit adv +7 / Block adv +2
    Quick Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f during flamingo / Recovery 19 / Block adv 0
    Flamingo Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f during flamingo / Recovery 17 / Hit adv +2 / Block adv +1
    Fire Storm > Flamingo: Command MK > LK > f during flamingo / Recovery 15 / Hit adv +6 / Block adv +4

    The ones I'm most uncertain about are the Middle Kick Combo, High Kick Combo/Low & High Kick Combo, and Quick Kick Combo.
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
    rokninfatboy
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    I'll let you know tomorrow. too tired today - Alisa took a lot longer then I thought.

    thanks for the input!
    我道
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  • EasternwarriorEasternwarrior Joined: Posts: 14 ✭
    edited February 12
    I love you. Was getting sick of getting blown up by DLC characters online because I don't know whether or not I can punish something or not.
    Post edited by Easternwarrior on
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  • rokninroknin Keeps Trying Joined: Posts: 3,832 ✭✭
    .....I mean I can't say anything else other than GOOD. SHIT. HOMIE.

    Seriously, awesome. <3
    Living Lazy since the late 80's
    SFxT Points - Juri, Cammy, Julia
    SFxT Anchors - Marduk, Law, Nina
    KOF13 - Athena/Yuri/Terry
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  • rokninroknin Keeps Trying Joined: Posts: 3,832 ✭✭
    Dunno' if it's mentioned but just a quick note on Juri - her fj.HP is listed as 100 damage, should be 75. cr.HP is listed correctly as 75 though.

    Only thing I can confirm/see at the moment. ^_^ Can't thank you enough for the work
    Living Lazy since the late 80's
    SFxT Points - Juri, Cammy, Julia
    SFxT Anchors - Marduk, Law, Nina
    KOF13 - Athena/Yuri/Terry
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  • MnszykMnszyk Joined: Posts: 487 ✭
    edited February 12
    I feel like there are some errors with Blanka's normals.

    far st. lp feels more like +3/-1, cr.lk more like +4/+0, and thats more consistent with the way lights work in this game having a difference of 4 frames between hit and block stun... I'll test some of Blanka's normals when I get a chance.
    Post edited by Mnszyk on
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  • OvaZeroOvaZero Joined: Posts: 3 ✭
    awesome thank you very much! i cant wait for sakura frame data!
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    roknin said:

    Dunno' if it's mentioned but just a quick note on Juri - her fj.HP is listed as 100 damage, should be 75. cr.HP is listed correctly as 75 though.

    Only thing I can confirm/see at the moment. ^_^ Can't thank you enough for the work

    Fixed.
    Mnszyk said:

    I feel like there are some errors with Blanka's normals.

    far st. lp feels more like +3/-1, cr.lk more like +4/+0, and thats more consistent with the way lights work in this game having a difference of 4 frames between hit and block stun... I'll test some of Blanka's normals when I get a chance.

    I tested it again, and s.lp and cl.lp are correct.
    However, c.lk is indeed wrong. Seems I have typed the start up into the hit adv column. It's +3 . The -1 on block is correct tho.

    Lol, I also just found it that if you're dead close to blanka and he does his super raw, it hits behind the character as cross up. at least, when I record Paul walking forward and then replay it and do Blanka's super raw from close range, he blocks it. Oo
    Dr. Grammar said:

    I have some things to add for Hwoarang. I worked these out based on the numbers in the guide plus in-game testing, so it would be good if you could also verify them.

    Tsunami Kick > Flamingo: Command f+MK > f / Recovery 21 / Hit adv +5 / Block adv +3
    Reverse Kick > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f / Recovery 12 / Hit adv +7 / Block adv +1
    Middle Kick Combo (2) > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > f / Recovery 13 / Hit adv +6 / Block adv +1
    Middle Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > MK > f / Recovery 14 / Hit adv +2 / Block adv -1
    High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > HK > f / Recovery 20 / Hit adv +1 / Block adv -2
    Low & High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > d+LK > HK > f / Recovery 20 / Hit adv +1 / Block adv -2
    Low & High Smash Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f / Recovery 12 / Hit adv +7 / Block adv +2
    Quick Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f during flamingo / Recovery 19 / Block adv 0
    Flamingo Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f during flamingo / Recovery 17 / Hit adv +2 / Block adv +1
    Fire Storm > Flamingo: Command MK > LK > f during flamingo / Recovery 15 / Hit adv +6 / Block adv +4

    The ones I'm most uncertain about are the Middle Kick Combo, High Kick Combo/Low & High Kick Combo, and Quick Kick Combo.

    Wait, do you mean the frame data including the transition into the flamingo stance?
    我道
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  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,622 ✭
    zUkUu said:

    Dr. Grammar said:

    I have some things to add for Hwoarang. I worked these out based on the numbers in the guide plus in-game testing, so it would be good if you could also verify them.

    Tsunami Kick > Flamingo: Command f+MK > f / Recovery 21 / Hit adv +5 / Block adv +3
    Reverse Kick > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f / Recovery 12 / Hit adv +7 / Block adv +1
    Middle Kick Combo (2) > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > f / Recovery 13 / Hit adv +6 / Block adv +1
    Middle Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > MK > f / Recovery 14 / Hit adv +2 / Block adv -1
    High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > HK > f / Recovery 20 / Hit adv +1 / Block adv -2
    Low & High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > d+LK > HK > f / Recovery 20 / Hit adv +1 / Block adv -2
    Low & High Smash Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f / Recovery 12 / Hit adv +7 / Block adv +2
    Quick Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f during flamingo / Recovery 19 / Block adv 0
    Flamingo Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f during flamingo / Recovery 17 / Hit adv +2 / Block adv +1
    Fire Storm > Flamingo: Command MK > LK > f during flamingo / Recovery 15 / Hit adv +6 / Block adv +4

    The ones I'm most uncertain about are the Middle Kick Combo, High Kick Combo/Low & High Kick Combo, and Quick Kick Combo.

    Wait, do you mean the frame data including the transition into the flamingo stance?
    Yeah. The strings all have different recovery when using the transitions, which wasn't noted in the guide.
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    uh... I dunno how to record that he does the transition but then jumps on the earliest frame... =/
    I'll try to record it for f.mk > f and tell you if I can come up with anything else frame wise. But that is basically guessing whether or not I've done it right. Not a fan of that. I fear I can't help you there reliably.

    BRB
    我道
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  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,622 ✭
    zUkUu said:

    uh... I dunno how to record that he does the transition but then jumps on the earliest frame... =/
    I'll try to record it for f.mk > f and tell you if I can come up with anything else frame wise. But that is basically guessing whether or not I've done it right. Not a fan of that. I fear I can't help you there reliably.

    BRB

    You could just hold up-forward to jump.
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    Dr. Grammar said:

    zUkUu said:

    uh... I dunno how to record that he does the transition but then jumps on the earliest frame... =/
    I'll try to record it for f.mk > f and tell you if I can come up with anything else frame wise. But that is basically guessing whether or not I've done it right. Not a fan of that. I fear I can't help you there reliably.

    BRB

    You could just hold up-forward to jump.
    But then he doesn't do the transition doesn't he?
    However, watching the footage, I can tell you exactly when he goes into the stance. Seeing it has 1F startup\recovery, that means on the second frame you can already input an attack \ jump. I can tell you how much advantage he gets that way. Dunno if that is right, tho.
    我道
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  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,622 ✭
    zUkUu said:

    Dr. Grammar said:

    zUkUu said:

    uh... I dunno how to record that he does the transition but then jumps on the earliest frame... =/
    I'll try to record it for f.mk > f and tell you if I can come up with anything else frame wise. But that is basically guessing whether or not I've done it right. Not a fan of that. I fear I can't help you there reliably.

    BRB

    You could just hold up-forward to jump.
    But then he doesn't do the transition doesn't he?
    However, watching the footage, I can tell you exactly when he goes into the stance. Seeing it has 1F startup\recovery, that means on the second frame you can already input an attack \ jump. I can tell you how much advantage he gets that way. Dunno if that is right, tho.
    He does.

    I'm pretty sure the transition is indeed 1f, so that method should work.
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    Dr. Grammar said:

    zUkUu said:

    Dr. Grammar said:

    zUkUu said:

    uh... I dunno how to record that he does the transition but then jumps on the earliest frame... =/
    I'll try to record it for f.mk > f and tell you if I can come up with anything else frame wise. But that is basically guessing whether or not I've done it right. Not a fan of that. I fear I can't help you there reliably.

    BRB

    You could just hold up-forward to jump.
    But then he doesn't do the transition doesn't he?
    However, watching the footage, I can tell you exactly when he goes into the stance. Seeing it has 1F startup\recovery, that means on the second frame you can already input an attack \ jump. I can tell you how much advantage he gets that way. Dunno if that is right, tho.
    He does.

    I'm pretty sure the transition is indeed 1f, so that method should work.
    I just saw it myself that he does it when you hold uf. That means, I can help you. Will check it out now.

    The transition takes 2F before the first jump frame occurs on the 3rd frame btw.

    我道
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  • EternalEternal Joined: Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭
    Unless they changed it from 1.06:

    Cody's far LP is 4F startup not 5F
    Cody's EX Zonk is 17F startup not 18F, Regular Zonk actually still has 3 different charge levels each with different startup times ranging from 17F to 19F. The invincibility increases as well but there is no change in damage.
    Cody's far MP is NOT special cancelable :(
    Cody's c.LP I'm about 70% certain is +1F on block not 0F the move uses the exact same data as SF4 except they added 1F of recovery.
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  • SimSimIVSimSimIV 2nd. in command of the SFxT Defense Force Joined: Posts: 1,192 ✭
    Dhalsim:
    St.lk is not rapid fireable
    Razor chopp (overhead) = 4+ on hit
    Simsimiv: Little known fact: Tatsu shaved his head for SFxT
    Shaniril: I thought he shaved his head for the children
    Tatsunical: for the sfxt playing children
    Tatsunical: the children that play marvel can go f**k themselves
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  • TheDarkPhoenixTheDarkPhoenix BEHOLD! Joined: Posts: 12,003 mod
    edited February 12
    / me patiently waits on elena's data



    Post edited by TheDarkPhoenix on
    "this game is about winning, If you had the option of a 1) Big dick or 2) a small dick, would you choose 2 because it took more skill? Thought not"
    -Bokkin
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    Tsunami Kick > Flamingo: Command f+MK > f| +5/+3
    Reverse Kick > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f|+8/+2
    Middle Kick Combo (2) > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > f|+6/+2
    Middle Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > MK > f| +4/0
    High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > HK > f | +3/0
    Low & High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > d+LK > HK > f| +3/0
    Low & High Smash Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f| +8/2
    Quick Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f| float/+1
    Flamingo Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f| +2/+1
    Fire Storm > Flamingo: Command MK > LK > f| +6/+4

    hope everything is correct.
    我道
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  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,622 ✭
    edited February 12
    zUkUu said:

    Tsunami Kick > Flamingo: Command f+MK > f| +5/+3
    Reverse Kick > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f|+8/+2
    Middle Kick Combo (2) > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > f|+6/+2
    Middle Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > MK > f| +4/0
    High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > HK > f | +3/0
    Low & High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > d+LK > HK > f| +3/0
    Low & High Smash Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f| +8/2
    Quick Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f| float/+1
    Flamingo Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f| +2/+1
    Fire Storm > Flamingo: Command MK > LK > f| +6/+4

    hope everything is correct.

    The original frame data must then have a mistake for the MK > MK string, right? It shows a 5f difference between the hitstun and blockstun, whereas you're saying it's 4f.
    Post edited by Dr. Grammar on
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    edited February 12
    Eternal said:

    Unless they changed it from 1.06:

    Cody's far LP is 4F startup not 5F
    Cody's EX Zonk is 17F startup not 18F, Regular Zonk actually still has 3 different charge levels each with different startup times ranging from 17F to 19F. The invincibility increases as well but there is no change in damage.
    Cody's far MP is NOT special cancelable :(
    Cody's c.LP I'm about 70% certain is +1F on block not 0F the move uses the exact same data as SF4 except they added 1F of recovery.

    Problem with Zonk is that I have no visual cue when the input occurs, since it triggers on button release and is therefore not shown in the input list.
    When I do jump => EX Zonk it has 18F of animation. cl.hp => EX Zonk, also 18F from cancel to hit. Even via Reversal timing it has 18F. How did you test it?
    Didn't know they have the charge level in SFxT as well. I was able to hit with Zonk in 18F, so yeah, you're right. I think it's 18,19,20 tho.

    s.lp has 4F, I even have that in my Cody spreadsheet I have on my pc. Error when converting it to the online doc.

    I checked again, c.lp is 0.

    S.mp's cancel is fixed.

    Good stuff. Thanks.
    SimSimIV said:

    Dhalsim:
    St.lk is not rapid fireable
    Razor chopp (overhead) = 4+ on hit

    Chop is +3 on hit according to my footage. Also +3 in the data.
    Fixed s.lk
    TheDarkPhoenix said:

    / me patiently waits on elena's data



    She will probably be the last SF character. =/

    Will do 2 Tekken characters so I have 3/3, (Lars and Bryan), and then do 2 SF and then 2 Tekken, then elena, then lei or christie.

    Post edited by zUkUu on
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    Dr. Grammar said:

    zUkUu said:

    Tsunami Kick > Flamingo: Command f+MK > f| +5/+3
    Reverse Kick > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f|+8/+2
    Middle Kick Combo (2) > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > f|+6/+2
    Middle Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > MK > f| +4/0
    High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > HK > f | +3/0
    Low & High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > d+LK > HK > f| +3/0
    Low & High Smash Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f| +8/2
    Quick Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f| float/+1
    Flamingo Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f| +2/+1
    Fire Storm > Flamingo: Command MK > LK > f| +6/+4

    hope everything is correct.

    The original frame data must then have a mistake for the MK > MK string, right? It shows a 5f difference between the hitstun and blockstun, whereas you're saying it's 4f.
    mk > mk is -2/-7

    I'll check flamingo stance transition again...
    It's +6/+2

    so neither seems wrong.


    我道
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  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,622 ✭
    zUkUu said:

    Dr. Grammar said:

    zUkUu said:

    Tsunami Kick > Flamingo: Command f+MK > f| +5/+3
    Reverse Kick > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f|+8/+2
    Middle Kick Combo (2) > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > f|+6/+2
    Middle Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > MK > f| +4/0
    High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > HK > f | +3/0
    Low & High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > d+LK > HK > f| +3/0
    Low & High Smash Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f| +8/2
    Quick Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f| float/+1
    Flamingo Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f| +2/+1
    Fire Storm > Flamingo: Command MK > LK > f| +6/+4

    hope everything is correct.

    The original frame data must then have a mistake for the MK > MK string, right? It shows a 5f difference between the hitstun and blockstun, whereas you're saying it's 4f.
    mk > mk is -2/-7

    I'll check flamingo stance transition again...
    It's +6/+2

    so neither seems wrong.


    How is that possible? The flamingo transition should only be changing recovery, not hitstun or blockstun.
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    Dr. Grammar said:

    zUkUu said:

    Dr. Grammar said:

    zUkUu said:

    Tsunami Kick > Flamingo: Command f+MK > f| +5/+3
    Reverse Kick > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f|+8/+2
    Middle Kick Combo (2) > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > f|+6/+2
    Middle Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > MK > f| +4/0
    High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > HK > f | +3/0
    Low & High Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MK > MK > d+LK > HK > f| +3/0
    Low & High Smash Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f| +8/2
    Quick Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command MP > MP > f| float/+1
    Flamingo Kick Combo > Flamingo: Command LK > MK > f| +2/+1
    Fire Storm > Flamingo: Command MK > LK > f| +6/+4

    hope everything is correct.

    The original frame data must then have a mistake for the MK > MK string, right? It shows a 5f difference between the hitstun and blockstun, whereas you're saying it's 4f.
    mk > mk is -2/-7

    I'll check flamingo stance transition again...
    It's +6/+2

    so neither seems wrong.


    How is that possible? The flamingo transition should only be changing recovery, not hitstun or blockstun.
    wait, I looked at the footage again. it's -2/-6! 7 is the first frame he can jump, so got confused here for a second. I think I need a break @_@

    我道
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  • EternalEternal Joined: Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭
    edited February 12
    zUkUu said:



    s.lp has 4F, I even have that in my Cody spreadsheet I have on my pc. Error when converting it to the online doc.

    I checked again, c.lp is 0.

    S.mp's cancel is fixed.

    Good stuff. Thanks.

    http://pandora.dantarion.com/dumps/

    Simple really, I go by the data from the dumped .bac / .bcm files and then double check in-game to verify. Note: if you do this you want to generally go by the XML data as that is the raw data, the HTML data is based off of dantarion's incomplete program that reads the xml data and converts it. Thus there are some errors in the HTML files.
    Dr. Grammar said:



    How is that possible? The flamingo transition should only be changing recovery, not hitstun or blockstun.

    Frame advantage and hitstun/blockstun are two different things. Frame advantage changes when you alter the recovery of a move. For example:

    In SF4 Cody's c.LP is 4F startup, 4F active, 5F recovery. It has frame advantage of +2F on block and +6F on hit. That means that hitting on the first frame (5F) there is 10F of blockstun and 14F of hitstun but there is still 8frames before you are able to act again. If you add 1F of recovery it becomes +1F on block +5F on hit. The actual blockstun/hitstun didn't change the move itself just takes longer. That is why meaty attacks give more frame advantage, because you ht on a later active frame which means that there is effectively LESS recovery for your move but it has the same hitstun/blockstun but the lowered recovery means that it has more frame advantage.

    Post edited by Eternal on
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    Eternal said:

    zUkUu said:



    s.lp has 4F, I even have that in my Cody spreadsheet I have on my pc. Error when converting it to the online doc.

    I checked again, c.lp is 0.

    S.mp's cancel is fixed.

    Good stuff. Thanks.

    http://pandora.dantarion.com/dumps/

    Simple really, I go by the data from the dumped .bac / .bcm files and then double check in-game to verify. Note: if you do this you want to generally go by the XML data as that is the raw data, the HTML data is based off of dantarion's incomplete program that reads the xml data and converts it. Thus there are some errors in the HTML files.


    I can't see anything there lol. dunno how you can see the frames there.

    If you have 1.08, try to reversal a -17F move with ex or normal zonk. I'll check then again.
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  • EternalEternal Joined: Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭
    I don't have 1.08 since I only have the PC version.

    Anyways, if you check my signature you'll see I run the SF4 modding tool wiki that handles information on gameplay modding for SF4 and that is why I'm able to understand that stuff. I'm hardly an expert though, I give that title to Error001 and Razor5170 who know ALOT more about it than me and have been answering questions I have when I've been writing the wiki articles.

    Http://onotool.wikispaces.com
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  • Swedish ChefSwedish Chef SUPLEX A MOTHERF***IN' TRAIN!!! Joined: Posts: 5,427 ✭✭
    Thanks for doing this man, now whenever I'm feeling down I can just take a look at Blanka's frame data and laugh myself better.
    TAKING YOU PUNKS DOWN!!!
    ^Bubbleberry_VII you are so godlike for making this.
    roknin
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  • Gr1nGoGr1nGo Joined: Posts: 26 ✭
    Blanka.
    I see you've already fixed his crlk on block.

    Rock Crusher f or b+MP M - it does hit high, however there's a chargeable version of it that has startup about 25 and it hits mid.
    Thank you very much for your hard work.
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    Ibuki
    EX Kunai: Start Up 10F (-1)
    EX Kazakiri: Start up 6F (-1)
    MK Tsumuji: On Block -3 (-6)
    HK Tsumuji: On Block -3 (-6)
    EX Tsumuji: Start Up 13F (-1)
    EX Neckbreaker: Start Up 16F (-1)
    Cross Art: Start Up 7F (+1)

    Is her Super Art 0F start up? It's listed as 1, but doesn't look like it.

    Dhalsim
    LP Yoga Flame: Start up 17 (+1)
    MP Yoga Flame: Start up 20 (+1)
    HP Yoga Flame: Start up 23 (+1)

    I have not yet changed it in the doc, as I'm unsure if this is true (normally, the normal versions are correct). Can someone please reaffirm this? Super, Cross Art etc are all correct for him otherwise.
    我道
    roknin
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  • SimSimIVSimSimIV 2nd. in command of the SFxT Defense Force Joined: Posts: 1,192 ✭
    Chop is +3 on hit according to my footage. Also +3 in the data.
    Fixed s.lk

    My bad. It appears you an hit with it meaty on a standing opponent, and therefor make it +4.
    Dhalsim
    LP Yoga Flame: Start up 17 (+1)
    MP Yoga Flame: Start up 20 (+1)
    HP Yoga Flame: Start up 23 (+1)

    Are you referring to + on block? Because hp is +1, mp is -2 and lp is -5 or something I think:o
    Simsimiv: Little known fact: Tatsu shaved his head for SFxT
    Shaniril: I thought he shaved his head for the children
    Tatsunical: for the sfxt playing children
    Tatsunical: the children that play marvel can go f**k themselves
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    I'm referring to the start up^^ (as written)
    我道
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  • SWAG KING YOLOSWAG KING YOLO Joined: Posts: 72 ✭
    #1 thread good shit
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  • AsaCarterAsaCarter Rainbow Ballin' Since '99 Joined: Posts: 254 ✭
    Thanks for the blanka data. Now I can attempt some links now. I was curious if you would ever be able to find the dlc character's recovery for the moves?
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    edited February 13
    AsaCarter wrote: »
    Thanks for the blanka data. Now I can attempt some links now. I was curious if you would ever be able to find the dlc character's recovery for the moves?
    I have asked multiple times, but no one was able to answer me if I can find out the active frames or a way to calculate them. Then I could just do a whiff move, count the frames and then deduct the active frames. The rest is the recovery.

    Post edited by zUkUu on
    我道
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  • gilleygilley 3D Aminator Joined: Posts: 879 ✭
    edited February 13
    Take all this data with a grain of salt. This along with the original data from the guide has a bunch of errors. The first move I randomly picked from the DLC characters to check was wrong. I would bug capcom/combofiend to get a new frame data guide out to us. IMHO, if capcom really wants to push this game, they would make the frame data available.

    There really isn't any easy way to figure out active frames of an attack. The only way you could possibly try to do this is with macros(PC version) or a programmable controller and a MASSIVE amount of free time and OCD. Even then, you could probably only figure out normal attacks. Multiple hitting moves would be pretty hard to figure out. How would you do this? Knock your opponent down, then stick out a normal attack(with frame accurate timing) that will hit your opponent when they wake up. Keep changing the frame values in your macro until the attack no longer hits your opponent when they wake up. Subtract this number with the number of startup frames and you'll get the active frames range. This would also require knowing a few other values, like # of frames you recover before your opponent on a specific knockdown. It would be pretty complicated to figure it all out manually.

    The best bet would be to have capcom get those values to us.
    Post edited by gilley on
    It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. --Mark Twain
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    gilley wrote: »
    Take all this data with a grain of salt. This along with the original data from the guide has a bunch of errors. The first move I randomly picked from the DLC characters to check was wrong. I would bug capcom/combofiend to get a new frame data guide out to us. IMHO, if capcom really wants to push this game, they would make the frame data available.

    There really isn't any easy way to figure out active frames of an attack. The only way you could possibly try to do this is with macros(PC version) or a programmable controller and a MASSIVE amount of free time and OCD. Even then, you could probably only figure out normal attacks. Multiple hitting moves would be pretty hard to figure out. How would you do this? Knock your opponent down, then stick out a normal attack(with frame accurate timing) that will hit your opponent when they wake up. Keep changing the frame values in your macro until the attack no longer hits your opponent when they wake up. Subtract this number with the number of startup frames and you'll get the active frames range. This would also require knowing a few other values, like # of frames you recover before your opponent on a specific knockdown. It would be pretty complicated to figure it all out manually.

    The best bet would be to have capcom get those values to us.
    Of course, it should be without saying that everything isn't official or professionally done. I don't claim to make no errors and some stuff is tricky to figure out (all the charge moves, super and corss arts especially). At least for normals, most should be right tho. That is, if I don't make any mistakes and since there is A LOT of data and equal chances to screw something up (In fact, 9 times per entry), chances are, I'll do a few errors eventually. That's why pointing them out helps a lot. I'd like to consider this "community" work down the line. Even if everyone would check just a few moves of his character and confirm them or points out erros would help a lot.

    That said, I'd be grateful if you'd also say which error you found.

    I doubt Capcom would publish framedata. Have they ever done it? I mean Combo would be our best bet, but dunno who could contact him.

    I thought as much. That method is out of question since it requires too much effort. I know a way how to do it for cancable normals, but even that requires a good amount of extra effort.
    我道
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  • gilleygilley 3D Aminator Joined: Posts: 879 ✭
    Blanka close s.hk. I definitely punished a -6f attack with it so it's definitely not 7f startup. I didn't go into detail with testing exactly what the startup is. When I use it, it feels very fast like his SF4 version which has 3f startup.

    The SSF4 guide that came out was done with help from capcom, so they are definitely down to give us the data. The people who made the frame data chart for that guide said they got a special dev kit from capcom that let them figure out all the frame datas.
    It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. --Mark Twain
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    edited February 13
    gilley wrote: »
    Blanka close s.hk. I definitely punished a -6f attack with it so it's definitely not 7f startup. I didn't go into detail with testing exactly what the startup is. When I use it, it feels very fast like his SF4 version which has 3f startup.

    The SSF4 guide that came out was done with help from capcom, so they are definitely down to give us the data. The people who made the frame data chart for that guide said they got a special dev kit from capcom that let them figure out all the frame datas.
    Then you used his far s.hk which has 4F start up, but looks EXACTLY THE SAME. I found this out by accident myself. I tested it multiple times, if you're close it hits on the 7f frame, if you're not dead close it's 4F.

    Yeah, but they had some sort of business relationship. It's different to approach them and say "compile us all the data for free".
    Post edited by zUkUu on
    我道
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  • street11street11 Joined: Posts: 4,002 ✭
    edited February 13
    I can vouch for what zUkUu said. The close version of HK is indeed 7f start-up (at least in PC 1.06)

    I believe Lars frame data is already done by someone. I have a problem finding the Lars section so I cannot give you a link, but I remember it being pretty much accurate.
    I'll try to confirm the 4 characters currently done, but I don't have a recording device (I use a different method) so I'll do it only if you're okay.
    Post edited by street11 on
    PSN & XBL: street121
    Lei's Frame data BY ME /brag- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjGMy8pIpXbudDhNT0ZJOXl4Zi1jSEtpX0tGdXV2Y2c
    "...by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
    zUkUu
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    edited February 13
    street11 wrote: »
    I can vouch for what zUkUu said. The close version of HK is indeed 7f start-up (at least in PC 1.06)

    I believe Lars frame data is already done by someone. I have a problem finding the Lars section so I cannot give you a link, but I remember it being pretty much accurate.
    I'll try to confirm the 4 characters currently done, but I don't have a recording device (I use a different method) so I'll do it only if you're okay.
    The more the merrier! :D You and your insane knockdown dash method x).

    I think after I've done all the DLC characters, I'll also put up a list of their walk speed, dash frames, CADC and vitallity - or is that somewhere around?

    I'll double check any error you find to make sure I can find the error as well, so we have really a 100000% correct data down the line. I'd appreciate in particular if you do of all Charge moves (as in CADC moves) and super \ cross arts, Zonk\Ex Zonk (lvl 1), Ibuki's Super Art and Dhalsim's Yoga Blast\Fire. ^^

    Also Paul's Cross Art really 10F?

    Post edited by zUkUu on
    我道
    street11
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  • street11street11 Joined: Posts: 4,002 ✭
    edited February 13
    I also use 1hit-jump method :)

    There's no data related to walk speed, dash, CADC, or health afaik. It'll have to be tested separately. I do know that Lei has 17f forward dash, 1000 health, 4+34f jump diagonal and vertical (1f faster than Ryu), with the fastest CADC being 5+17f.

    Sim's Yoga Blast would be a difficult one, but I'll try to do those after I'm done confirming what you already did. It's gonna take a while since reading week doesn't start til next week.
    Post edited by street11 on
    PSN & XBL: street121
    Lei's Frame data BY ME /brag- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjGMy8pIpXbudDhNT0ZJOXl4Zi1jSEtpX0tGdXV2Y2c
    "...by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
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  • street11street11 Joined: Posts: 4,002 ✭
    edited February 13
    .
    Post edited by street11 on
    PSN & XBL: street121
    Lei's Frame data BY ME /brag- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjGMy8pIpXbudDhNT0ZJOXl4Zi1jSEtpX0tGdXV2Y2c
    "...by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
    zUkUu
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  • street11street11 Joined: Posts: 4,002 ✭
    edited February 13
    .
    Post edited by street11 on
    PSN & XBL: street121
    Lei's Frame data BY ME /brag- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjGMy8pIpXbudDhNT0ZJOXl4Zi1jSEtpX0tGdXV2Y2c
    "...by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
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  • street11street11 Joined: Posts: 4,002 ✭
    edited February 13
    .
    Post edited by street11 on
    PSN & XBL: street121
    Lei's Frame data BY ME /brag- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjGMy8pIpXbudDhNT0ZJOXl4Zi1jSEtpX0tGdXV2Y2c
    "...by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
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  • street11street11 Joined: Posts: 4,002 ✭
    edited February 13
    1. Paul's cross art is indeed 10f

    2. So far, from what I found in Cody:
    - far st.LP is +2 on block
    - far st.LK is -1 on block
    - far st.HK has 10f start-up, is +3 on hit
    - cr.LP is +1 on block
    - cr.HK is -7 on block
    - f+MP is +1 on block
    - Knife st.LP is 0 on block
    - Knife cr.LP hits high (not low)
    - LK Ruffian Kick has 16f start-up
    - HK Ruffian Kick has 8f start-up
    - Zonk has 1~12f strike invincibility (have to test more to make sure); did not test projectile invincibility yet

    **I have a problem with Cody's close st.LK. If I use 1hit-jump method, it is +5 on hit and +1 on block, but if I try a normal -> normal link frame perfect, it acts like it's +6 on hit and +2 on block. (eg. frame perfect cl.st.LK -> far st.HK on hit catches jumping opponents while they're grounded, suggesting that it hit them during their 4f pre-jump frames. If it had 5f gap like it should've, they would get hit by far st.HK while airborne. In addition, this sequence trades with 4f moves without invincibility after they get hit by cl.st.LK). Same goes with Knife cr.HP; it is +6 for sure but it links into Knife cr.MP, cr.MK and sweep.


    EDIT: WHOA wth. I wanna delete duplicate posts but I don't see an option anywhere.
    Post edited by street11 on
    PSN & XBL: street121
    Lei's Frame data BY ME /brag- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjGMy8pIpXbudDhNT0ZJOXl4Zi1jSEtpX0tGdXV2Y2c
    "...by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
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  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,220 ✭
    edited February 13
    street11 wrote: »
    1. Paul's cross art is indeed 10f

    2. So far, from what I found in Cody:
    - far st.LP is +2 on block
    - far st.LK is -1 on block
    - far st.HK has 10f start-up, is +3 on hit
    - cr.LP is +1 on block
    - cr.HK is -7 on block
    - f+MP is +1 on block
    - Knife st.LP is 0 on block
    - Knife cr.LP hits high (not low)
    - LK Ruffian Kick has 16f start-up
    - HK Ruffian Kick has 8f start-up
    - Zonk has 1~12f strike invincibility (have to test more to make sure); did not test projectile invincibility yet

    **I have a problem with Cody's close st.LK. If I use 1hit-jump method, it is +5 on hit and +1 on block, but if I try a normal -> normal link frame perfect, it acts like it's +6 on hit and +2 on block. (eg. frame perfect cl.st.LK -> far st.HK on hit catches jumping opponents while they're grounded, suggesting that it hit them during their 4f pre-jump frames. If it had 5f gap like it should've, they would get hit by far st.HK while airborne. In addition, this sequence trades with 4f moves without invincibility after they get hit by cl.st.LK). Same goes with Knife cr.HP; it is +6 for sure but it links into Knife cr.MP, cr.MK and sweep.


    EDIT: WHOA wth. I wanna delete duplicate posts but I don't see an option anywhere.
    Thanks for the confirmation for Paul's CA.

    -Far s.hk is indeed 10F! I even reproduce why it was amiss. When Paul lands he ducks, and since s.hk hits rather high, Paul was ducking under it and raised into it. So I hit meaty with it. X
    -far s.lp is +2. Converting error from my local spreadsheet. (aka typo).
    -Knife s.lp is -1. ☑
    -f.mp is 0. ☑
    -cl.lk is +5 on hit. ☑
    -s.lk is -1 on block. X
    -c.hk is -7. X

    I also checked a few other normals and they were all correct. Cody was the first character I've done and wasn't quite comfy at that point. Also, I'll stop using auto-jump for testing since it can seem to have an impact on testing higher hitting moves. Pause => Jump it is! takes more time, but isn't worth the risk for errors that it seems to bring with it to use auto jump.

    So thanks for pointing the errors out.

    Full body Strike invulnerability, or just upper?

    Knife c.lp has been fixed. Dunno why that was there. I remember thinking it was a low when setting up the raw data. After testing it and seeing that it was a high I thought I had changed it

    Charge move are a hell to check since they always seem to be 1-2F slower then they actually are due to the whole charging crap. I found a new method for that tho. I record Paul doing Raze, block that and input with reversal timing. That way I have no 2F long button press or anything, at least I hope it doesn't use a 2F long button press to charge it later when the move actually comes out. Would seem weird tho, so I don't think that is the case. I also use that method now for CA \ Super Arts since he is airborne, you can see him moving as soon as the cinematic freeze ends.
    That said, I just tried that for Ruffians and still come up with the same results, but this time MK Ruffian is also 1F slower. WTF IS GOING ON WITH THE GAME? Why does it add frames where ever it wants? When using Ex Ruffian for instance, there is a frame where cody stands, but doesn't glow yellow. I can only fathom that there is 1f of animation where he stands up before the start up of the move starts. When I compare the pose Paul is in during the cinematic freeze, and that 1f where cody doesn't glow, it's exactly the same. So maybe for reversal timing, you have that additional frame of animation?
    I mean that makes sense for Super Arts, since the cinematic freeze would otherwise consume 1F of start up, but why is it there for special moves? AND WHY ISN'T IT CONSISTENT FOR ALL SPECIALS?

    I swear, this game...


    Post edited by zUkUu on
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  • EternalEternal Joined: Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭
    Want to point out: Cody's Zonk invincibility varies based on charge time just like in SF4. Level 3 has strike and projectile upper body invincibility until 2F before active while level 1 has significantly less.
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  • street11street11 Joined: Posts: 4,002 ✭
    edited February 13
    zUkUu wrote: »
    snip

    TYVM for double checking. It's strange tho, out of everything, f+MP being +1 on block was the one I was the most confident with.

    I was wondering if you could test 2 of my testing methods with your recording device. I use:
    1. Put dummy on Jump + Block All, land a normal on his landing recovery (dummy blocks it), then neutral empty jump with the dummy to see which side lands first by how many frames.
    2. Put dummy on record + Block All, and with a dummy, land a normal then neutral jump right away for 4~5 seconds, so that it will do neutral empty jump right after the normal's recovery is over. Put it to Replay, block the normal manually, then neutral empty jump with the dummy to see which side lands first by how many frames.

    If you could test f+MP with the above 2 methods that would be great. If you still get 0 on f+MP block then it means I would have to come up with a new method of measuring frame advantage.

    Like I said before (I think in the Paul section), there seems to be 2 reversal timings, and the 2nd one is actually 1f slower than the 1st one. I swear I can punish a certain move with a reversal and sometimes I cannot punish the same move with the same reversal within the same range.

    To test the special start-up I do:
    - Put dummy on Record
    - whiff normal neutral jump -> do a special right when they land or before they land (I tap a button to make sure the dummy doesn't charge anything. If I do it a bit early the special still comes out with negative edge, so all I have to do is not do it too late)
    - get a character with a special start-up that you know, put dummy to Replay, whiff normal neutral jump with him right after you get out of pause -> do a special. As long as there's no invincibility frames, the moves with the same start-up should trade. This is how I test normal start-up as well
    - of course, the character with the same jump frames is preferred (Cody has 4+35f jump, same with Ryu)

    Non-EX Zonk is upper body invincibility only.

    Also, it seems like you can "cancel" the last recovery frame of normals such as Knife st.HP and Knife cr.HP with another move other than jump/dash. This is the only possibility I can think of that would explain Knife cr.HP being +6 on hit and being possible to link into cr.MK/sweep/Knife cr.MP. I know some of Lei's stance normals do this, so it's nothing quite new.


    TY for pointing that out Eternal. I don't know Cody much and didn't know there were different Zonk levels. For the one I tested I charged for about 80 frames so I think that is level 1?


    EDIT: Cody's close st.LP, far st.LP, close st.MP, cr.MP, close st.HP, cr.HP, close st.LK, far st.LK, cr.LK, cr.HK, Knife st.LP, Knife cr.LP all have juggle potential of 2. Cody's far st.MP, close st.MK, far st.MK, cr.MK, Knife st.MP, Knife cr.MP, b+MP, f+MP all have juggle potential of 3. Cody's far st.HP, close st.HK, far st.HK, Knife st.HP, Knife cr.HP all have juggle potential of 4. Not sure about f+HK, but it has at least 4. The moves mentioned above all add 1 juggle count per hit.
    Post edited by street11 on
    PSN & XBL: street121
    Lei's Frame data BY ME /brag- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjGMy8pIpXbudDhNT0ZJOXl4Zi1jSEtpX0tGdXV2Y2c
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  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,622 ✭
    edited February 13
    Hwoarang:
    Crouch HK: Cancel occurs on frame 14?
    Spinning Trip Kick (misspelled): Block adv +1?
    MK > MK: Cancelable into BC/LA
    High Kick Combo: Cancelable into LA
    Low & High Kick Combo: Cancelable into LA
    Low & High Smash Kick Combo: Cancelable into BC/LA
    Quick Kick Combo: Cancelable into LA
    Flamingo Kick Combo: Cancelable into LA
    Fire Storm: Cancelable into BC (heavy only)/LA
    Special Step: Cancelable into SA

    Jin:
    Power Stance: not cancelable into Power Stance

    Law:
    Dragon Rush Combo: Cancelable into SM/CA, EX/SA (occurs on abnormal frame)

    In general, it seems like recovery frames haven't been updated in cases where frames were changed in moves. For example, Julia's st.MP should have 10 recovery frames, and cr.MP should have 11.
    Post edited by Dr. Grammar on
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