SSF4AE - Am I Utilizing Training Mode Correctly?

TsobiTsobi Joined: Posts: 29
edited February 2013 in Newbie Saikyo Dojo
So I've been playing street fighter for a while, but I'm still really bad and I don't feel my problems are really character specific, but rather my actual knowledge of the game, general ability to react to stuff and understand my opponents mindset. That is why I have chosen to post this here in the newbie part of the forum rather than a character specific one. Having been dominated by 2k+ PP players in endless games quite a few times I often tell myself I just need to go into training mode and practice combos and I will start being able to match up against them, but lately I've come to understand that that really isn't the case.

So I've been playing Ryu and lately I've been trying to get back to the basics. My plan is to throw fireballs from a SAFE distance (I have a habit of spamming this too much). Possibly bait jump ins from unsafe fireball range by whiffing st.lk. Anti-airing with FIERCE dp. Play footsies with cr.mk, cr.mp and cr.hk (I abuse this aswell, need to only use at max range or as punish). Punish whiffed and blocked moves, and do basic stuff that applies to all characters like crouch teching, punishing randomy focus etc. So I've compiled a list of things to practice in training mode and I'm asking for ur guys' opinions on wheather it seems like a good idea or not.

EDIT: Made changes to the following after taking in consideration what u guys said in the comments, thanks again!

Crouch tech against different block strings and frame traps

Throw fireballs and move stick to df after, also do this for st.lk (so to get ready for a dp since I often am too slow to react to jump ins)

Punish missed lp.dp with st.hp/cr.hp xx hp shoryu

Set dummy to spam cr.mk and play footsies (later do this for other characters aswell)

Set dummy to focus and practice f.hp xx hp.shoryu

Set dummy to throw and cross up on wake up, keep blocking full string and crouch tech just as practice

Set dummy to random block and do cr.lk cr.lp cr.hp xx hp.shoryu OR hk.tastsu, if it blocked -> go into a tic throw instead

Below are just random links I want to practice. Later I want to practice canceling into fireball and FADCing out of so I can go through many different links rapidly and stick practice cancelling into specials aswell as FADCing, but for now I really want my links to be close to 100% and specially my 1 frame links need work. I try and do all the 2+ frame links 10 times in a row and the 1 frames I do 5 times in a row, twice.

cr.lk cr.lp cr.mp
cr.mp cr.mp

cr.lk cr.lp cr.hp
cr.mp cr.hp

cr.lk cr.lp cr.mk
cr.mp cr.mk

cr.lk cr.lp cr.lp cr.hk
cr.mp cr.mp cr.hk

shoryu FADC ultra

So that's basically what I think I want to start practicing in training mode. Does this sound like a good idea? I obviously have to keep playing more and get a better feel that way, also just learn the entire cast somewhat decently so I know what I'm up against, but maybe this is a good place to start. Btw I didn't include any hit confirm starting in cr.lp or cr.lk because I simply don't use that in real games. I know that that is probably horribly bad, but I honestly have gotten into a state of mind where I always go for cr.mk and just working cr.mp in there I feel is a step forward. The reason I chose cr.mp over cr.lp is simply that cr.mp has more range so I feel I can use it more often. Hope I didn't ramble on too long and that the above are all reasonable things to practice in training mode. If there is something else you come up with, please let me know!
Post edited by Tsobi on

Comments

  • Creature_GoonCreature_Goon Keep on truckin' Joined: Posts: 903 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    That looks good to me, mind you I'm no expert at the game and I might have to use this idea as well, I would always go to training mode to work on my execution but I can't do the combos in a real match if my knowledge of the game is poor so I tend to do other things like understanding the range of the opponent's attacks to see what I can use to punish them with or learn how to block properly
    Post edited by Creature_Goon on

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  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 4,942 ✭✭✭✭
    Tsobi wrote: »
    So I've been playing Ryu and lately I've been trying to get back to the basics. My plan is to throw fireballs from a safe distance. Possibly bait jump ins from unsafe fireball range by whiffing st.lk. Anti-airing with strong dp. Play basic footsies with cr.mk, cr.mp and cr.hk. Punish whiffs and dumb stuff.
    Having a strong fireball game comes with experience. You'll notice when high-level Ryus play they often repeatedly throw fireballs from unsafe distances. This is because they also have a very strong ground game and they move and act in a way that makes it hard for the opponent to read them. I'm not saying that you should throw fireballs from unsafe distances all the time, but you should learn to recognize when the opponent is least likely to expect it, and also how to put them in a situation where they won't expect it. You should also keep in mind that many characters can easily get around fireballs without jumping. In AE2012 you should AA with fierce DP.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    So I've compiled a list of things to practice in training mode and I've intentionally made the combos easier than I have in the past (previously I've practiced more 1 frame links which I just don't just in real matches), but I want to also practice stuff that aren't just combos. I try and do every part 10 times in a row and if I fail I start over.
    If you have problems with 2f and 3f links then spend more time with those, but you also practice the 1f links. Comboing into sweep is a big part of Ryu's game. Start with cr.mp, cr.mp, sweep.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish focus on wake up with nj.mp cr.mk xx fireball
    Bad idea. You can get hit before the cr.mk comes out. Just mash DP if you can react to the focus attack.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish a random focus with f.hp xx hp.shoryu
    Another thing people do sometimes, try and bait my sweep with a focus. Figured this was a good way to punish it.
    This is good, but you can also use cr.mk buffered into lp DP in some situations.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish sweep with FA f.hp xx hp.shoryu
    Very similar to the last one, but this is instead me focusing opponents sweep. I find I don't do this enough and I should really work it into my game more.
    Consider that your opponent also has the above options available to them. Sometimes waiting for the whiff and then counter-sweeping is better. Or if you have super, bait and block it, then punish. If you perform a random focus you can get punished very harshly. Also, consider your screen/health position when going for combos. Sometimes cr.mp xx cr.hp xx tatsu is better because it pushes the opponent to the corner. It also depends on how much time you have to land the combo.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Crouch tech against cr.lp cr.lp tick throw
    Some matches I know my opponent is going to tic throw, but I mess up my crouch tech so he gets it in anyway. I did this 3 times in the same round today so I figured I really have to practice this.
    Practice against all variations of tick throws and frame traps.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish random jump in with strong shoryu
    Fierce Shoryuken, not strong
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish throw > cross up with reversal shoryu
    I set the dummy (also a Ryu) to throw me, wait a little, and do a cross up. I believe this works against characters without 3 frame reversals, but I find people do it against me anyway.
    In most cases, a reversal shoryu will not beat the x-up. It will whiff or get stuffed and leave you open for a punish. Practice delayed auto-correct DPs
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish sweep > "safe jump" with reversal shoryu
    I set the dummy (also a Ryu) to sweep me from about a backdash range away and then jump in with roundhouse which is a safe jump against characters without 3 frame reversals, but again I find people do this type of thing against me.
    Don't do this. This Ryu setup is a mixup:
    j.hk safejump
    empty jump into low
    x-up tatsu
    empty jump into DP/block Option Select

    Often you'll just have to guess your way out, but generally your best option is to hold back, then push downforward and press cr.mk + cr.lp + cr.lk. This will block the safe-jump, beat the x-up tatsu and tech the throw. With the right timing you'll also block the DP/Block OS. (for more info on this technique see here)
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish blocked reversal with cr.hp xx hp.shoryu
    I set the dummy (also a Ryu) to throw out a dp and after blocking it I punish with this simple combo.
    st.hp xx shoryu does slightly more damage. But don't forget your more damaging options (including ultra), and situation specific options like ending in tatsu for better positioning.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    cr.mp cr.mk xx fireball
    I sometimes get in the habit when playing footsies to ONLY do cr.mk and fireball, trying to work that away step by step by adding this safe poke. I believe it is a frame trap against crouch tech aswell.
    Keep in mind that this is a 1f link, so if you practice this there's no reason not to practice linking into sweep.
    Also practice his other strings into cr.mk xx hadouken (eg. cr.lk xx cr.lk xx cr.lp, cr.mk xx hadou) and tatsu. Also learn to confirm the hits and then FADC into sweep, cr.mk xx tatsu or a combo into DP depending on the situation.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Btw I didn't include any hit confirm starting in cr.lp or cr.lk because I simply don't use that in real games.
    As a beginner, you absolutely need to practice this! Set the dummy to random block and learn to hit-confirm. Not using it in a game isn't really a good excuse. (should you not learn how to AA just because you never use it?)
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 4,942 ✭✭✭✭
    Tsobi wrote: »
    So I've been playing Ryu and lately I've been trying to get back to the basics. My plan is to throw fireballs from a safe distance. Possibly bait jump ins from unsafe fireball range by whiffing st.lk. Anti-airing with strong dp. Play basic footsies with cr.mk, cr.mp and cr.hk. Punish whiffs and dumb stuff.
    Having a strong fireball game comes with experience. You'll notice when high-level Ryus play they often repeatedly throw fireballs from unsafe distances. This is because they also have a very strong ground game and they move and act in a way that makes it hard for the opponent to read them. I'm not saying that you should throw fireballs from unsafe distances all the time, but you should learn to recognize when the opponent is least likely to expect it, and also how to put them in a situation where they won't expect it. You should also keep in mind that many characters can easily get around fireballs without jumping. In AE2012 you should AA with fierce DP.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    So I've compiled a list of things to practice in training mode and I've intentionally made the combos easier than I have in the past (previously I've practiced more 1 frame links which I just don't just in real matches), but I want to also practice stuff that aren't just combos. I try and do every part 10 times in a row and if I fail I start over.
    If you have problems with 2f and 3f links then spend more time with those, but you also practice the 1f links. Comboing into sweep is a big part of Ryu's game. Start with cr.mp, cr.mp, sweep.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish focus on wake up with nj.mp cr.mk xx fireball
    Bad idea. You can get hit before the cr.mk comes out. Just mash DP if you can react to the focus attack.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish a random focus with f.hp xx hp.shoryu
    Another thing people do sometimes, try and bait my sweep with a focus. Figured this was a good way to punish it.
    This is good, but you can also use cr.mk buffered into lp DP in some situations.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish sweep with FA f.hp xx hp.shoryu
    Very similar to the last one, but this is instead me focusing opponents sweep. I find I don't do this enough and I should really work it into my game more.
    Consider that your opponent also has the above options available to them. Sometimes waiting for the whiff and then counter-sweeping is better. Or if you have super, bait and block it, then punish. If you perform a random focus you can get punished very harshly. Also, consider your screen/health position when going for combos. Sometimes cr.mp xx cr.hp xx tatsu is better because it pushes the opponent to the corner. It also depends on how much time you have to land the combo.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Crouch tech against cr.lp cr.lp tick throw
    Some matches I know my opponent is going to tic throw, but I mess up my crouch tech so he gets it in anyway. I did this 3 times in the same round today so I figured I really have to practice this.
    Practice against all variations of tick throws and frame traps.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish random jump in with strong shoryu
    Fierce Shoryuken, not strong
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish throw > cross up with reversal shoryu
    I set the dummy (also a Ryu) to throw me, wait a little, and do a cross up. I believe this works against characters without 3 frame reversals, but I find people do it against me anyway.
    In most cases, a reversal shoryu will not beat the x-up. It will whiff or get stuffed and leave you open for a punish. Practice delayed auto-correct DPs
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish sweep > "safe jump" with reversal shoryu
    I set the dummy (also a Ryu) to sweep me from about a backdash range away and then jump in with roundhouse which is a safe jump against characters without 3 frame reversals, but again I find people do this type of thing against me.
    Don't do this. This Ryu setup is a mixup:
    j.hk safejump
    empty jump into low
    x-up tatsu
    empty jump into DP/block Option Select

    Often you'll just have to guess your way out, but generally your best option is to hold back, then push downforward and press cr.mk + cr.lp + cr.lk. This will block the safe-jump, beat the x-up tatsu and tech the throw. With the right timing you'll also block the DP/Block OS. (for more info on this technique see here)
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Punish blocked reversal with cr.hp xx hp.shoryu
    I set the dummy (also a Ryu) to throw out a dp and after blocking it I punish with this simple combo.
    st.hp xx shoryu does slightly more damage. But don't forget your more damaging options (including ultra), and situation specific options like ending in tatsu for better positioning.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    cr.mp cr.mk xx fireball
    I sometimes get in the habit when playing footsies to ONLY do cr.mk and fireball, trying to work that away step by step by adding this safe poke. I believe it is a frame trap against crouch tech aswell.
    Keep in mind that this is a 1f link, so if you practice this there's no reason not to practice linking into sweep.
    Also practice his other strings into cr.mk xx hadouken (eg. cr.lk xx cr.lk xx cr.lp, cr.mk xx hadou) and tatsu. Also learn to confirm the hits and then FADC into sweep, cr.mk xx tatsu or a combo into DP depending on the situation.
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Btw I didn't include any hit confirm starting in cr.lp or cr.lk because I simply don't use that in real games.
    As a beginner, you absolutely need to practice this! Set the dummy to random block and learn to hit-confirm. Not using it in a game isn't really a good excuse. (should you not learn how to AA just because you never use it?)
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 4,942 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
    I just typed a long response to your post and SRK lost it. I hate this new forum.

    Unfortunately I'm not going to type out everything again, but here is some of it:
    - Anti Air with fierce DP. It's slightly harder but the damage is worth it. Only AA with strong DP if you're going for DP FADC U1.

    - If you're practicing cr.mp, cr.mk xx fireball then you might as well practice his other 1f links into sweep

    - When Ryu does cr.hk into jump, it's a mixup. Don't practice DP'ing it. Hold back, then at he last moment do downforward + cr.mk + cr.lk + cr.lp.

    - As a beginner, you absolutely need to practice cr.lp and cr.lk hit-confirms in training mode.
    Post edited by ilitirit on
  • TsobiTsobi Joined: Posts: 29
    edited February 2013
    Thanks a ton for the lengthy comment ilitirit! I'll be sure to change some things keeping in mind what you said here, and keep working on my game. I think I will start practicing just linking Ryu's normals without canceling into specials to just really get them down. I don't have much trouble with 2+ frame links, but it takes me maybe 2-3 tries sometimes to get 10 in a row and the 1 frame links are quite difficult for me.

    Regarding practicing crouch teching. I've been trying to record a dummy ryu doing cr.lp cr.lp cr.mp (walk up again) cr.lp cr.lp tic throw aswell as cr.mp cr.mp cr.mk (walk up again) cr.mp tic throw. And I must say crouch teching is quite hard and I guess it is something I REALLY have to practice. But what do you do against frame traps (ie cr.mp cr.mp)? You just guess? You react to the throw? You delay the tech so you don't get trapped?
    Post edited by Tsobi on
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 4,942 ✭✭✭✭
    Well what do you know, my post magically appeared again. WTF SRK.
  • Huggy BearHuggy Bear Scoops Häagen-Dazs® Joined: Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭
    I thought Strong DP has an extra frame of Invul?
    Logan / Spencer / Gouki

  • ugo_2uugo_2u Joined: Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭
    Tsobi wrote: »
    Thanks a ton for the lengthy comment ilitirit! I'll be sure to change some things keeping in mind what you said here, and keep working on my game. I think I will start practicing just linking Ryu's normals without canceling into specials to just really get them down. I don't have much trouble with 2+ frame links, but it takes me maybe 2-3 tries sometimes to get 10 in a row and the 1 frame links are quite difficult for me.

    Regarding practicing crouch teching. I've been trying to record a dummy ryu doing cr.lp cr.lp cr.mp (walk up again) cr.lp cr.lp tic throw aswell as cr.mp cr.mp cr.mk (walk up again) cr.mp tic throw. And I must say crouch teching is quite hard and I guess it is something I REALLY have to practice. But what do you do against frame traps (ie cr.mp cr.mp)? You just guess? You react to the throw? You delay the tech so you don't get trapped?

    ehmm if you get hit with a crMp then he will have to walk up and throw you, you can easily backdash to avoid a frame trap or if you fear an option select then focus backdash, also mashing shoryuken works just make sure you have fadc to cancel. you can also try jumping back after blocking crMP crMP because the push back is great you can jump away or dash away. just try not to be predictable
    ssf4ae v2012 tutorial archive http://www.padstickgaming.com/
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  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 4,942 ✭✭✭✭
    Huggy Bear wrote: »
    I thought Strong DP has an extra frame of Invul?
    It does, but HP DP is good enough. It was useless in AE (only 2f invincibility) but in 2012 it should be your primary AA option for most cases. The only difference between MP and HP DP is that you have to do HP DP later, and that's pretty easy to do from a crouching position.
  • TsobiTsobi Joined: Posts: 29
    I have another question which isn't really too related, but thought I might aswell post it here since I don't want to make a new thread or anything.

    Ever since I started plinking I've been using my index and middle finger to plink so say I would do cr.mp cr.hp I would first have my index on lp, middle finger on mp and then I would move my hand and have index on middle and middle on hp. But I got to thinking the other day when I was playing on my guitar a bit. Not sure how familiar people are with scales, but I was just playing through some scales and noticed that I've intentionally trained myself to always use the same finger for the same bar so as to never have to move my hand. So this got me thinking if I should apply the same thing to my arcade stick. Should I just keep my hand in place (index over lp/lk, middle over mp/mk, ring over hp/hk) and learn to plink with middle/ring finger just as well as index/middle? Ofc I can do index/ring aswell, I'll have to see what feels best.
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