FGD Lounge: for general fighting game discussions that aren't thread worthy

Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdhJoined: Posts: 5,233
edited August 2013 in Fighting Game Discussion
I want to know why KOF 98 is so popular? i've only realised this whilst looking around GGPO. The KOF98 rooms seem to be packed at all times.. so someone explain to an ST player why 98 is so good.
Post edited by Preppy on
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  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,233
    edited February 2013
    jedpossum said:
    KoF 98 is a good game.
    i know. i'm not trying to start a sf vs kof discussion, i'll even agree that kof98 may possibly be better than ST based on its popularity. I just want to know how the objective of the game differs to ST... like landing crossovers to win a match, etc..
  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 21,816
    edited February 2013
    For starters you have more mobility options in the form of the different type of jumps, that alone changes how those games are played.
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  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,233
    Hecatom said:
    For starters you have more mobility options in the form of the different type of jumps, that alone changes how those games are played.
    interesting, how much does the jump height effect how KOF98 plays in comparison to ST?
  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802
    World Heroes Perfect was better than any version of Street Fighter 2 until Super Turbo came out.
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,110 mod
    edited February 2013
    World Heroes Perfect was better than any version of Street Fighter 2 until Super Turbo came out.
    WHP is the game Team NINJA secretly wants to make with DOA... except with more titties.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
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  • AirLancerAirLancer Just a touch of Honey Joined: Posts: 753
    Sexperienced. said:interesting, how much does the jump height effect how KOF98 plays in comparison to ST?
    Well, how much more effective would most SF characters' offenses be if their jumps were twice as fast?

    That's how.
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,110 mod
    What exactly are "simultaneous button cancels" in the Genesis/MegaDrive version of HF (Special Champion Ed)?
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,233
    AirLancer said:
    Sexperienced. said:interesting, how much does the jump height effect how KOF98 plays in comparison to ST?
    Well, how much more effective would most SF characters' offenses be if their jumps were twice as fast?

    That's how.
    despite having more mobility options kof' seems to be a lot slower and less precise than sf.
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,233
    AirLancer said:
    Sexperienced. said:interesting, how much does the jump height effect how KOF98 plays in comparison to ST?
    Well, how much more effective would most SF characters' offenses be if their jumps were twice as fast?

    That's how.
    kof characters seem a lot slower than SF characters.
    the7k said:
    Hecatom said:<br />
    For starters you have more mobility options in the form of the different type of jumps, that alone changes how those games are played.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    interesting, how much does the jump height effect how KOF98 plays in comparison to ST?
    I remember an old youtube vid of a Japanese match between a Cammy vs O.Sagat, where the Sagat basically forced Cammy to jump straight up over and over to avoid getting hit by either the Tiger Shot or the Tiger Uppercut should she try to advance. I'd imagine this match would have been completely different if she had access to a Super Jump, Short Hop, Super Hop and Evasive Roll.
    maybe so but i've noticed that the more mobility options a fighting game has the slower they characters are. is it possible to have sf style precision spacing in kof?
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,233
    AirLancer said:
    Sexperienced. said:interesting, how much does the jump height effect how KOF98 plays in comparison to ST?
    Well, how much more effective would most SF characters' offenses be if their jumps were twice as fast?

    That's how.
    kof characters seem a lot slower than SF characters.
    the7k said:
    Hecatom said:<br />
    For starters you have more mobility options in the form of the different type of jumps, that alone changes how those games are played.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    interesting, how much does the jump height effect how KOF98 plays in comparison to ST?
    I remember an old youtube vid of a Japanese match between a Cammy vs O.Sagat, where the Sagat basically forced Cammy to jump straight up over and over to avoid getting hit by either the Tiger Shot or the Tiger Uppercut should she try to advance. I'd imagine this match would have been completely different if she had access to a Super Jump, Short Hop, Super Hop and Evasive Roll.
    maybe so but i've noticed that the more mobility options a fighting game has the slower they characters are. is it possible to have sf style precision spacing in kof?
  • the7kthe7k Kitty Pride. Joined: Posts: 5,566

    kof characters seem a lot slower than SF characters.<br />

    maybe so but i've noticed that the more mobility options a fighting game has the slower they characters are. is it possible to have sf style precision spacing in kof?
    I'm not an expert, especially on older KOFs (First KOF I played seriously was KOFXI on Atomiswave - while I enjoyed the older KOFs, I never had any real local competition with them or decent internet growing up), but I feel that even if the characters are technically slower, the game feels faster because of all the mobility options.

    By spacing, do you mean zoning? Or do you mean using pokes to keep enemies at bay? Either way, KOF definitely has both. In most KOFs, I play characters with very far-reaching, meaty pokes (Clark's St.D in KOFXIII is one of my favorite attacks of all time) to control the pace of the match. As for zoning, it exists, though not quite in the same form as SF. All the mobility options means it won't be as effective, but it is still very effective.
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  • NickRocksNickRocks We are coming Joined: Posts: 22,325
    so how did you guys do at your first ever tourney? I'm going to FR and just wondering how to combat the inevitable nerves
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  • HD-ManHD-Man Big Apple 3 A.M Joined: Posts: 10,491
    edited February 2013
    My bad wrong topic. Disregard this post
    Post edited by HD-Man on

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  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,233
    edited February 2013
    the7k said:
    By spacing, do you mean zoning? Or do you mean using pokes to keep enemies at bay? Either way, KOF definitely has both. In most KOFs, I play characters with very far-reaching, meaty pokes (Clark's St.D in KOFXIII is one of my favorite attacks of all time) to control the pace of the match. As for zoning, it exists, though not quite in the same form as SF. All the mobility options means it won't be as effective, but it is still very effective.
    my definition of spacing is simply holding or tapping back to evade attacks and moving forward to counter said attack, this is more noticeable in a game like alpha2 because of proximity blocking, not so much ST... i'm currently looking for an example to show you...
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,233
    HD-Man said:
    My bad wrong topic. Disregard this post
    there is no specific topic of discussion.
  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 640
    the7k said:
    By spacing, do you mean zoning? Or do you mean using pokes to keep enemies at bay? Either way, KOF definitely has both. In most KOFs, I play characters with very far-reaching, meaty pokes (Clark's St.D in KOFXIII is one of my favorite attacks of all time) to control the pace of the match. As for zoning, it exists, though not quite in the same form as SF. All the mobility options means it won't be as effective, but it is still very effective.
    my definition of spacing is simply holding or tapping back to evade attacks and moving forward to counter said attack, this is more noticeable in a game like alpha2 because of proximity blocking, not so much ST... i'm currently looking for an example to show you...
    Walkspeeds in KOF are very high compared to modern fighting games. So yes, there's quite a lot fo that. But usually you choose more proactive forms of evading attacks and counterattacks.

    For example you can stand in a position that your opponent might try to sweep you, and then you hop. If he sweeps you land with a jump attack right on top of him and get a full combo.

    Due to hops, the 'height' of an attack becomes a lot more relevant. like, a st.HP of chun-li has a significantly different effect from a cr.MK of ryu for example. Even though the ranges are roughly equivalent. cr.MK is more liable to being hopped over, while st.HP may be crouched under etc.
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,233
    edited February 2013
    the7k said:

    kof characters seem a lot slower than SF characters.<br />

    maybe so but i've noticed that the more mobility options a fighting game has the slower they characters are. is it possible to have sf style precision spacing in kof?
    I'm not an expert, especially on older KOFs (First KOF I played seriously was KOFXI on Atomiswave - while I enjoyed the older KOFs, I never had any real local competition with them or decent internet growing up), but I feel that even if the characters are technically slower, the game feels faster because of all the mobility options.

    By spacing, do you mean zoning? Or do you mean using pokes to keep enemies at bay? Either way, KOF definitely has both. In most KOFs, I play characters with very far-reaching, meaty pokes (Clark's St.D in KOFXIII is one of my favorite attacks of all time) to control the pace of the match. As for zoning, it exists, though not quite in the same form as SF. All the mobility options means it won't be as effective, but it is still very effective.

    here's an example of spacing, it starts at 33secs to the end of the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u9YyLKWbiXk#t=31s
    Post edited by Sexperienced. on
  • krazykone123krazykone123 4D Joined: Posts: 2,835
    Messing around with Cammy in CVS2 right now, anyone have some tips for Roll Canceling?
  • rukawa_kaederukawa_kaede ({「決最終戦奥義」}) Joined: Posts: 3,326
    looks like you need some tutorials


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF5yg2QH_Lw

    phoenixnl said:
    the7k said:
    By spacing, do you mean zoning? Or do you mean using pokes to keep enemies at bay? Either way, KOF definitely has both. In most KOFs, I play characters with very far-reaching, meaty pokes (Clark's St.D in KOFXIII is one of my favorite attacks of all time) to control the pace of the match. As for zoning, it exists, though not quite in the same form as SF. All the mobility options means it won't be as effective, but it is still very effective.
    my definition of spacing is simply holding or tapping back to evade attacks and moving forward to counter said attack, this is more noticeable in a game like alpha2 because of proximity blocking, not so much ST... i'm currently looking for an example to show you...
    Walkspeeds in KOF are very high compared to modern fighting games. So yes, there's quite a lot fo that. But usually you choose more proactive forms of evading attacks and counterattacks.
    i didnt even know you could walk in kof. in all the match vids i've seen the characters either jump or run or sometimes roll.

  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 6,373
    Can anyone recommend some lesser-known fast-paced games like MvC2 and VS? I know Jojo's can get a bit crazy but other than that I don't have lots of experience with fast-paced titles.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,110 mod
    ilitirit wrote: »
    Can anyone recommend some lesser-known fast-paced games like MvC2 and VS? I know Jojo's can get a bit crazy but other than that I don't have lots of experience with fast-paced titles.
    Skullgirls as long as you aren't playing with/against Fortune.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • tatakitataki misplaced Joined: Posts: 7,654
    edited March 2013
    2013/2/20 High level Karnov's Revenge
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  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 6,373
    Which FGs have top tier grapplers?
  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 21,816
    Anyone knows if the FR XVI videos would be uploaded to youtube?
    ( •_•) IT'S NOT RAPE,
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    IT'S SURPRISE SEX! (⌐■_■)
    YEAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!
    "Orgasm is a simile for the emotional epiphany a woman has when the shame of penetration is eclipsed by the inherent virtue of servicing a man." ~ Kromo.
    ( •_•)
    ( ಠ_ಠ)
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  • tatakitataki misplaced Joined: Posts: 7,654
    ilitirit wrote: »
    Which FGs have top tier grapplers?
    SFA3, KOF98, AH1.
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  • Negative-Zer0Negative-Zer0 Joined: Posts: 9,435
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  • DavDzDavDz Joined: Posts: 464
    So there was a fighting game double pack that contained both SoulCalibur IV and Tekken 6 in the package. I was wondering that if you buy Soulcalibur IV from this double pack, does the game contain all of the DLC [Specifically the DLC Star Wars characters such as Yoda for the PS3 version or Darth Vader for the Xbox 360 version] available at the start, or do you still have to pay to unlock a Star Wars character?

    If you still have to pay for it, that's kinda lame and would kind of defeat the purpose of buying it
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,110 mod
    Posted by someone on my G+.

    ibwI1puhNCjqAg.gif

    If the next XBox really does require you to be always online, you all know what console I'm not getting for next gen.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 21,816
    I don't even need that to not buy the nextbox.
    ( •_•) IT'S NOT RAPE,
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    IT'S SURPRISE SEX! (⌐■_■)
    YEAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!
    "Orgasm is a simile for the emotional epiphany a woman has when the shame of penetration is eclipsed by the inherent virtue of servicing a man." ~ Kromo.
    ( •_•)
    ( ಠ_ಠ)
    ( ಥ_ಥ)
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,110 mod
    Welp, IPL's dead. I guess we're not eSports anymore.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,110 mod
    Fuckin' A! If you want us to share your damn video on the front page, don't fucking set it to private.

    /rant
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • krazykone123krazykone123 4D Joined: Posts: 2,835
    Why do Capcom fans allow front runner games like UMvC3/SSFIVAE/SFxTK pass with such shitty netcode?

    It's 2013 and the majority of my wired connections (3/4 bars) in UMVC3 are horrendous compared to even my wireless connections in Skullgirls/VF5FS/Blazblue/TTT2.
    Why is this allowed? It's been 4 years since SFIV debuted on consoles, you'd think Capcom would've gotten an earful by now that their netcode is shit.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,110 mod
    SFxT has decent rollback based netcode. It may not be up to current GGPO standards, but neither was GGPO back in the day.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • King9999King9999 Joined: Posts: 10,810 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'm really impressed with VF5FS's netcode. It's a shame that game doesn't get more love.

    So why doesn't that game get more love?
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  • SirMixahLotSirMixahLot Proud Shoryuken.com member since 2003 Joined: Posts: 3,379
    http://www.geekexchange.com/capcoms-25-greatest-fighting-games-53275.html#.UW1Qxhg9uBg.gmail

    Pretty crappy list, I think...
    Alpha 2 gold, but no A2? All 3 versions of SF4? WW being #1? GTFO...

    Marvel vs. Capcom 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    edited April 2013
    World Warrior on the snes is Capcom's best selling game only game to come close was RE 5(only if you count both versions).
    Yeah, that list is so bad I can't think enough bad words to even describe it.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • SirMixahLotSirMixahLot Proud Shoryuken.com member since 2003 Joined: Posts: 3,379
    edited April 2013
    jedpossum wrote: »
    World Warrior on the snes is Capcom's best selling game only game to come close was RE 5(only if you count both versions).
    Yeah, that list is so bad I can't think enough bad words to even describe it.

    Yeah... The order doesn't make sense, and half the games don't make sense...
    Glad Slam Masters got love though... But no Hyper Fighting or Champion Edition? Super Turbo = no, but HDR?

    I mean...
    1-5 range could include: MvC2 &/or UMvC3, CvS2, 3S, Super Turbo, and SSF4AE2012 or whatever, and the order depends on who you ask...
    After that, 6-10 range could include: Vampire Savior, Alpha 2 &/or Alpha 3, Hyper Fighting &/or Champion Edition, Project Justice, MvC1, again order depends.
    10-25 is some combination of Project Justice, Power Stone 2, Slam Masters, other Vs. games, other Vampire games, MSH/CotA, HDR, Cyberbots, maybe Pocket Fighter, and even Battle Circuit or Megaman Power Fighters... But having PJ and Rival Schools or both PS games is fucking silly...
    Marvel vs. Capcom 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,233
    oh, I'm currently creating my own fighting game thats the reason why i was asking for the SF vs KOF comparison
    http://www.geekexchange.com/capcoms-25-greatest-fighting-games-53275.html#.UW1Qxhg9uBg.gmail

    Pretty crappy list, I think...
    Alpha 2 gold, but no A2? All 3 versions of SF4? WW being #1? GTFO...

    gutter trash list. how can street fighter 2 turbo, A2 and ST not be in the top 3.
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227

    This is so goofy I can see why it didn't get used.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,110 mod
    Why is it that in the west, you have different notation methods for different games? Over here in the far east, most everyone just uses numeric directions.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    ilitirit wrote: »
    Which FGs have top tier grapplers?

    Street Fighter EX1 (OG, plus and Alpha) games

    Zangief + EX series in general, pretty high up iirc

    "The secret to strength is daily training."
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  • SirMixahLotSirMixahLot Proud Shoryuken.com member since 2003 Joined: Posts: 3,379
    4neqs wrote: »
    ilitirit wrote: »
    Which FGs have top tier grapplers?

    Street Fighter EX1 (OG, plus and Alpha) games

    Zangief + EX series in general, pretty high up iirc
    to add to this:
    Vanilla SF4 Gief
    Super Turbo O.Hawk
    Marvel vs. Capcom 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  • CyclopsPawnchCyclopsPawnch PEW PEW Joined: Posts: 100
    Never played MKvsDC before. Why do people say that it sucks?
  • Hyper InfernoHyper Inferno Joined: Posts: 511
    Well, there is this:
«13456756
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