FGD Lounge: for general fighting game discussions that aren't thread worthy

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  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,218 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I used to really like arc until I realized that they only know how to make one style of fighting game...

    Guilty Gear was original
    Blazblue was a good successor after a decent time without anything from them,

    but now its just to the point where I'm tired of the style and have almost not interest on any new game I hear coming from them because I know exactly what it's going to be already. "creative" oversaturated crossdressing anime clichés.

    Ask if there games feel like the exact same experience at this point. They need to try something new completely.

    Battle Fantasia was actually decent and played nothing like GG. Most companies only make one style of fighting game anyway. Capcom is the only company who really has had true diversity with JoJo's, Street Fighter, CvS series, Marvel (COTA and VS), TVC, Powerstone, Pocket Fighter, etc. SNK comes in at second with FF, KoF, Last Blade, SS. What else do you have after that? Namco, Tecmo, Nintendo, etc all make the same type of fighting games in the forms of sequels. It's not uncommon practice. At least they have various franchises with BB, GG, HnK, and BF.
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,875
    I used to really like arc until I realized that they only know how to make one style of fighting game...

    Guilty Gear was original
    Blazblue was a good successor after a decent time without anything from them,

    but now its just to the point where I'm tired of the style and have almost not interest on any new game I hear coming from them because I know exactly what it's going to be already. "creative" oversaturated crossdressing anime clichés.

    Ask if there games feel like the exact same experience at this point. They need to try something new completely.

    You haven't played enough Arc games. Battle Fantasia is more akin to your traditional ground based footsie fighter than GG and BB. Their Nura game is nothing like those other three




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  • VegeasVegeas Way of Jashin Joined: Posts: 501
    ASW said they wanted to make a new Fighter for this gen: http://www.vg247.com/2013/04/05/arc-system-works-wants-to-make-a-new-fighting-game-for-ps4/

    I wonder if they're still going with it. I would want to see them make a game without over the top characters and more ground based. Try and get out of their comfort zone.
  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 23,809
    Pretty sure that they owning the Double Dragon franchise will let them do something for those who seem to dislike their more japanese aesthetics.
    Which i find hillarious giving how awful most of your shit tend to be lately.
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  • 3rdStrikeAnnouncer3rdStrikeAnnouncer Joined: Posts: 102
    Vegeas wrote: »
    ASW said they wanted to make a new Fighter for this gen: http://www.vg247.com/2013/04/05/arc-system-works-wants-to-make-a-new-fighting-game-for-ps4/

    I wonder if they're still going with it. I would want to see them make a game without over the top characters and more ground based. Try and get out of their comfort zone.

    All right, that's cool!
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,218 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Hecatom wrote: »
    Pretty sure that they owning the Double Dragon franchise will let them do something for those who seem to dislike their more japanese aesthetics.
    Which i find hillarious giving how awful most of your shit tend to be lately.

    A actual DD game instead of a bootleg one (RotD) would be dope.
  • tatakitataki misplaced Joined: Posts: 7,703
    @JohnGrimm This is why we can't have nice things. You caused SRK to not have a comment section anymore.
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  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 4,333
    tataki wrote: »
    @JohnGrimm This is why we can't have nice things. You caused SRK to not have a comment section anymore.

    It has one on my computer.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • 3SJ3SJ Vote Gary Johnson for The President of the United States Joined: Posts: 346
    What is the highest ping you will tolerate in an online fighter?

    More socially liberal than the Democrats and more fiscally conservative than the Republicans.
  • BB_HoodyBB_Hoody Nice plane you have there. Be a Shame if something went wrong in flight and it crashed Joined: Posts: 5,028
    Usually no more than 100 ping. Unless i'm playing a more obscure fighter like Vampire Savior. In which I'll settle for 150 or less because there are barely any players on console. Beggars can't be choosers. Oh and you have to take disconnects into account. Anything over 5%, I deem you a rage quitter and I wont waste my time.
  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,039
    edited July 2015
    150-170 depending on how stable the connection is. That's my online tolerance level for 3SOE. Against strong players that's not so great, but it's not fun to play strong players online anyway. Even at 40-50 ping it's not the same as playing them on arcade. But for the randoms that make up most of xbl 150 isn't horrible.
  • AsteriskBlueAsteriskBlue Joined: Posts: 765
    I still meet people who don't know locals and weekly gatherings even exist. They think every one just plays online until majors happen.

    I've been wondering if the growth in players might stop over the next couple of years. Outside of Blazblue updates the only fighting games really coming out are sequels to series from the 90's and those have been happening a little less often and getting less popular. After 2012 when everybody was releasing a new sequel, it seems like the genre got real quiet.
    It's nice to meet you, too.
  • BB_HoodyBB_Hoody Nice plane you have there. Be a Shame if something went wrong in flight and it crashed Joined: Posts: 5,028
    edited July 2015
    Hmm good question @Pertho Well i'm no expert because while I've been playing fighters since SFII. I was only a button mashing kid at the time. and I never bothered to try to "git gud" until SFIV came and through that I learned of the FGC and EVO and what not and I've only attended a local twice. So I'm not gonna speak on the competitive side of things, but for the FGC and the genre in general. I'd say it has been positive though with some glaring negatives.

    Positives:
    .More developers are getting into the fighting genre

    .Series that were once forgotten are now seeing re-releases and some play again on console ( SF3rd strike OE, Darkstalkers resurrection, Capcom Origins etc )

    .Competitive/ Tourney scenes are no longer completely niche and are attracting attention even outside of gaming. ( Shout outs to K-Brad for that Stone cold entrance at CEO )

    .Fighting game dedicated Youtube channels offering tutorials and character guides, making fighters easier to learn and understand, and streaming of tournaments and events so those who can't make it to see the tournaments can watch them from home.

    Negatives:
    .When something gets big enough, it's gonna attract undesirables no way around it. Be it, assholes, casuals who think they know what they're talking about etc.

    .Speaking of casuals, with the internet it's much easier for them to spread their uninformed ignorant opinions and create misconceptions about the genre and community like you said

    .With stuff like Gamergate going on and people like ( she who shall not be named ) with all this buzz about sexism, and feminism in gaming and what not. The community and genre is now under fire from these people since the community is no longer unknown to them.

    .Due to this soft ass society we're in now, fighters are being made with casual players in mind with comeback mechanics and what not, because today's generation of gamers can't handle a challenge nor be bothered to practice and get better.
    Post edited by BB_Hoody on
  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,076 mod
    edited July 2015
    Nice topic, I'll tag in. I think a broader spectrum can fuck over a genre in some ways, trying to appeal to the masses as opposed to catering your game to the niche it originally belonged to can affect the depth of the game.

    The Bad
    - The ease of access of the games is increased when you start trying to appeal to a broader audience, a large portion of which are either very young or just unskilled and unwilling to train up and improve. Gamers - work ethic never go hand-in-hand too often and a lot just want mindless fun - FPS games and their popularity are a prime example of this.
    - Misinformation or general ignorance is a fucking annoyance(I have done this myself a couple times due to lack of game knowledge), and when you increase the amount of part-time fans in the community a lot of that gets around.
    - People like LowTierGod become a thing, the whole him vs. Viscant thing gives a bad rep all around. I like watching people who can act the villain properly like FChamp, but he doesn't try to act like a fucking alpha and start fights because he's afraid to shatter his ego.
    - It becomes a lot harder to find the exposure you want when you have to compete with a larger community.
    - Having to deal with anyone under the age of 14.
    - Big splits between the games' communities. For example Smash/Street Fighter, I don't think Smash belongs at EVO because it isn't a traditional fighting game and the amount of time it takes compared to one game of SF is fucking ridiculous so it takes forever to finish and often it will run late and fuck up the schedule - but Smash players will argue that point with me for hours.

    The Good
    - I like meeting people, so growth in a community is great.
    - It causes people like Smug, NuckleDu and other young prodigies to surface and breeds a new generation of high level players. I doubt we'd be seeing them if SF4 wasn't such a big success, I think for both of them it was their first fighter.
    - More fighting games - Yatagarasu, Rising Thunder, Street Fighter V, Tekken 7, Tekken x Street Fighter, etc.
    - Support directly from the developers now the competitive scene is noticed, evidence of this is apparent this year and last with the birth of the Capcom Pro Tour and the pot bonuses for the games at EVO this year.
    - HUGE events. The scale of some events will really start to be pushed, I'm watching EVO right now and the sheer amount of people and production being put into it is astounding compared to 2/3 years ago.

    I'm trying not to recycle what everyone else said but it's kinda hard. I wish sticks were pushed a little heavier in Europe so 3rd party support is on my wishlist of things I want in the good section.

    I also have some top 16 guesses for EVO USFIV going on at the minute, felt like sharing my list -

    EVO Top 8 Picks -
    ZV Kazunoko
    EG Momochi
    MCZ Daigo Umehara
    MCZ Tokido
    EG PR Balrog
    RZR Fuudo
    Bonchan
    RZR Xian

    Top 16 Eliminated -
    MD Luffy
    YOMI Dieminion
    MCZ Mago
    PIE Smug
    EG Ricky Ortiz
    Infiltration
    r/Kappa Poongko
    Gamerbee

    I have a couple wild cards but I doubt they'll make it past top 32.
    Post edited by Froztey on
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,144 mod
    Your bets are already off, Smug, Mago and Luffy are already out.
  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,076 mod
    edited July 2015
    And Bonchan, Poongko, Ricky and Dieminion. I had NuckleDu in there but removed him for Smug thinking the explosive damage would get him through the games without having to play the long game. Still I got enough picks left in for the time being.
  • ES_CurseES_Curse Get ready for emanci-PAIN SON Joined: Posts: 8,384
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • MajormelisThereMajormelisThere no labels Joined: Posts: 497
    Does anyone know what KBR was about to say at the end of UMVC3? My stream keeps shitting on me lol
    Skullgirls: Parasoul, Cerebella
    JOJO HFTF: Polnareff, Iggy, jotaro
    Umvc3: poor spider-man, poor ryu, ok sentinel
  • MeaningOfKarmaMeaningOfKarma Joined: Posts: 3
    Are there any fighting games that do something with their single player, design wise? Recently there have been series which have moved towards making their single player campaigns more fully fleshed out experiences in terms of narrative, but fundamentally the game play isn't all that different from arcade mode.
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,875
    edited July 2015
    Are there any fighting games that do something with their single player, design wise? Recently there have been series which have moved towards making their single player campaigns more fully fleshed out experiences in terms of narrative, but fundamentally the game play isn't all that different from arcade mode.

    Tekken 6 with Scenario Campaign. It's the game's main story mode and it turns the game into a beat-em-up. MKA's Konquest Mode which turns it into a cheap and dumb down version of the Superior Shaolin Monks. GG Xrd's story is literally a four hour movie with no gameplay whatsoever.
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  • MeaningOfKarmaMeaningOfKarma Joined: Posts: 3
    These are certainly interesting, but I'm lookin
    Are there any fighting games that do something with their single player, design wise? Recently there have been series which have moved towards making their single player campaigns more fully fleshed out experiences in terms of narrative, but fundamentally the game play isn't all that different from arcade mode.

    Tekken 6 with Scenario Campaign. It's the game's main story mode and it turns the game into a beat-em-up. MKA's Konquest Mode which turns it into a cheap and dumb down version of the Superior Shaolin Monks.

    I'm looking more for something that uses its core framework as a fighting game to create a genuine single player experience that is consistent with the rest of the game.

    These two examples are certainly interesting, but it's a bit like if the new Call of Duty's single player was actually a 3rd person tactical shooter in the vein of X-Com, while the multiplayer remained an FPS. It might be fun and interesting, but it's not Call of Duty, if you get my meaning.

    The existence of fighting games that provide a unique and well designed single player while still remaining true to their mission statement of being an actual fighting game seems rare, if not nonexistent. Looking critically at the genre, this seems to me to be its largest and most obvious failing right now. That's why I'm looking for examples to hold up and examine.
  • 5_Knuckles5_Knuckles Joined: Posts: 73
    Man, Smash is taking over. An almost 15 year old 'fighting game' is more popular that street fighter and mahvel. Kind of disappointing, really. Oh well, at least i have SFV to look forward to, hopefully its good.
  • BB_HoodyBB_Hoody Nice plane you have there. Be a Shame if something went wrong in flight and it crashed Joined: Posts: 5,028
    5_Knuckles wrote: »
    Man, Smash is taking over. An almost 15 year old 'fighting game' is more popular that street fighter and mahvel. Kind of disappointing, really. Oh well, at least i have SFV to look forward to, hopefully its good.

    Actually SFIV top 8 had more views than Melee and more entrants in it's tourney. But yeah Melee is hot on SF's heels. But SF will most likely remain the main event for Evo and the FGC in general due to its greater international competitive scene. The only other fighter that drew such international competition that I recall was King Of Fighters XIII
  • keo-baskeo-bas Joined: Posts: 1,988
    I know its not realistic to play every fighter on competitive level but when I find self trying to play a game I particularly like and can't get the result I want. It leave very demoralizing feeling.
    Seikuken Disciple
    "That Phantom Breaker Guy"
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,144 mod
    Next thing, you scrubs are gonna be complaining that Counter Strike doesn't have a single player campaign, or that DOTA doesn't have an epic open world quest.
  • OrochiDemonOrochiDemon Joined: Posts: 1,541
    VS mode should always be the most prominent part of a fighting game or else youre just playing a beatem up with only boss rush mode.
  • 5_Knuckles5_Knuckles Joined: Posts: 73
    Story mode in SFV should be a Final Fight clone, that would be very nostalgic and cool. They are both same canon anyways
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,144 mod
    So I was watching the latest episode of Final Bosman regarding Street Fighter V's DLC model and was struck by a quote Bosman where he basically said that all other fighters from now on would have to copy SFV's DLC model (earn either currency in game to buy them or pay real money), and that any other fighter doing the old way (just plain microtransactions) would look like a lesser product.

    Personally, I'm inclined to agree. I'm hoping more games in the future follow this model.
    5_Knuckles wrote: »
    Story mode in SFV should be a Final Fight clone, that would be very nostalgic and cool. They are both same canon anyways
    That would be dumb as they'd have to create a whole new gameplay engine just for that.
  • keo-baskeo-bas Joined: Posts: 1,988
    http://www.sirlin.net/posts/a-new-era-of-fighting-games

    SO now we have David sirlin fantasy strike as the next "simplified" fighter coming along. Part of me would be excited about this..but I am little....jaded how these game clamming to pioneer simplicity and keeping tradition mechanics to keep depth.....Treasure and Fill in cafe did this model first and still do to this day. I'm not saying i don't want other to follow their model since I like this approach but I wish Rising Thunder and Fantasy strike got credit for other stuff such as the theme their f2p model or being pc fighter, or better american developers rying their hand arcade fighters.

    Poor 5pb/mages, you guys attempted this with vanilla Phantom breaker and improved on this Phantom Breaker Extra and yet your easily forgotten. Curse you 7sixty for ruining international phantom breaker release.
    Seikuken Disciple
    "That Phantom Breaker Guy"
  • BB_HoodyBB_Hoody Nice plane you have there. Be a Shame if something went wrong in flight and it crashed Joined: Posts: 5,028
    d3v wrote: »
    So I was watching the latest episode of Final Bosman regarding Street Fighter V's DLC model and was struck by a quote Bosman where he basically said that all other fighters from now on would have to copy SFV's DLC model (earn either currency in game to buy them or pay real money), and that any other fighter doing the old way (just plain microtransactions) would look like a lesser product.

    Personally, I'm inclined to agree. I'm hoping more games in the future follow this model.
    5_Knuckles wrote: »
    Story mode in SFV should be a Final Fight clone, that would be very nostalgic and cool. They are both same canon anyways
    That would be dumb as they'd have to create a whole new gameplay engine just for that.

    Bosman and his crew seem really fun. I liked what they did with the whole out doors thing.
  • MeaningOfKarmaMeaningOfKarma Joined: Posts: 3
    edited July 2015
    Pertho wrote: »
    Looking critically at the genre, this seems to me to be its largest and most obvious failing right now. That's why I'm looking for examples to hold up and examine.

    No, no it isn't. If you want single player content, go to the Story mode of NRS and ArcSys games. Otherwise none of the games are failing because they, since their inception, been multiplayer games.

    I'm sorry you can't RPG dust loops, that's one of those rare talent trees that you have to grind out in real life.


    Mortal Kombat 9 and X both have extensive single player modes. They were major selling points of the games, and were received exceptionally well, both inside the industry and out. Skullgirls and ArcSys have their story modes as well, and people are always chomping at the bit for more out of street fighter than their opening and closing scenes, and it certainly looks like they're going to get what they want in the next installation. There's also Soul Caliber, Tekken, Killer Instinct and, god help us all, Dead or Alive.


    I genuinely don't understand the complaint here. Is it because it's in the form of a single player experience? Like, fighting games somehow become boring or inherently worthless if you aren't playing with someone else? Are people who do challenge modes or the arcade mode just wasting their time entirely, because there's no way fighting games can be enjoyed alone? That's very clearly not the case at all.

    You really think asking for more ambitious implementation of what they're already giving us is the same as "hurr make fighting gamez rpgs cuz i sux at them"? Seriously? I said that fighting games that don't actually use and incorporate their own core mechanics weren't really what I'm looking for.

    It seems bizarrely insular and reactionary to me. Fighting games seem to want to give players a single player experience. Maybe because it sells well, maybe because the designers want to challenge themselves, maybe because Yoshinori Ono has a gun to his head and Ed Boon was strapped to a bomb by a delusional fan who thinks Quan Chi and Bison are going to kill his entire family unless MK10 and SF5 get a story mode, whatever. The fact is, they're giving us a thing. As a consumer, I want that thing to be worth the money I pay for it, through and through. Ultimately, If they don't want people to play or think about their story modes, they wouldn't (and shouldn't) put in a story mode. And, not only from a consumer standpoint, but from the viewpoint of someone who loves fighting games, I want to see it reach new heights and express itself more vividly as an art form.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,420 mod
    I genuinely don't understand the complaint here. Is it because it's in the form of a single player experience? Like, fighting games somehow become boring or inherently worthless if you aren't playing with someone else? Are people who do challenge modes or the arcade mode just wasting their time entirely, because there's no way fighting games can be enjoyed alone?

    1) no.
    2) yes.
    3) i've done challenges and arcade mode when i'm bored. They're a fun distraction, not the main game.

    As someone who absolutely loves the soul calibur series and their respective story modes, there is no point in trying to make a "fighting game" thats just single player. That's just a beat'em up. Tekken 6 beat em up mode was a shitload of fun. I'd buy a game that was a more refined version of that with the tekken or soul calibur cast.

    Single player fighting game? Get one of the gba castlevanias and play boss rush mode and then make up a story inbetween. That is literally what you are asking for.

    You want to wax poetically about how good story mode in MK9 was and how hard the boss was? This is literally not the place. When you look at these games for what they offer as opposed to what you wish they did, then you'll get welcomed with open arms.

    By all means send emails to all the devs about how backwards this genre is because it doesnt have a lenghty campaign mode that gamefaqs can help you finish. Making a fighting game out of fighting the AI is literally moving the genre back.

    Sorry that nobody is making you feel like you play fighting games when you dont.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • BurnYourEgoBurnYourEgo Ishikawa don't care about your weeabullshit avatar. Joined: Posts: 1,997
    edited July 2015
    Pertho wrote: »
    Looking critically at the genre, this seems to me to be its largest and most obvious failing right now. That's why I'm looking for examples to hold up and examine.

    No, no it isn't. If you want single player content, go to the Story mode of NRS and ArcSys games. Otherwise none of the games are failing because they, since their inception, been multiplayer games.

    I'm sorry you can't RPG dust loops, that's one of those rare talent trees that you have to grind out in real life.

    I genuinely don't understand the complaint here. Is it because it's in the form of a single player experience? Like, fighting games somehow become boring or inherently worthless if you aren't playing with someone else? Are people who do challenge modes or the arcade mode just wasting their time entirely, because there's no way fighting games can be enjoyed alone? That's very clearly not the case at all.

    And here's where you're pretty much completely wrong. Playing against the CPU is pretty much entirely worthless. Challenge modes are OK if they teach system mechanics, fundamentals or practical combos. GG Xrd did a good job with this (Skullgirls too for the most part, especially the fundamentals).

    Fighting game players primarily care about the two player competitive aspect, time spent on story mode or quest modes are seen by many as superfluous and could be taking away resources from balance and optimization. Take story mode out completely and spend all that time an resources perfecting netcode.

    Single player modes should be geared towards improving skills towards the multiplayer. Casuals and relatively few serious players give much of a damn about story mode. But the casuals move units, especially in NRS games. They buy early at full price, get their story jones on, get beat down, quit, and then buy the next game at full price. Lather rinse repeat.

    As much as we don't like it, casuals help fund the games we play, but really many of us could give a rats ass for single player outside training mode.
    Steam: BurnYourEgo: Terribly playing KOFXIII and Xrd, want to learn Skullgirls
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