That's what I called BIG DAMAGE!

Master Chibi

So two years ago when MvC3V (Vanilla) dropped I created a thread that talked of the damage levels. 

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/127938/thats-what-i-call-big-damage/p1

It was six pages of discussion in regards to how much damage combos did, the absurdity of X-factor at the time, how 'balanced' Dark Phoenix was, and so on.

Thus I am here to ask, two years later, how are things with UMvC3? Are the damage levels satisfactory now? Do we have a replacement for DP now? What happened to Wesker?

Tell me what you guys think! Do you think this game should go through a third revision? Be rid of the TAC infinites perhaps? Fix some characters?

Talk :D

TenguEgg

I meannn this can probably go in general discussion but, people can still get 1-touched by any well constructed team ( which doesn't bother me by the way ). Vergil, Strider, and Dark Phoenix are the Dark Phoenixes of this game, Wesker is still solid, but not that many people play him anymore.

On a competitive level, I don't think this game needs a revision, bar some of the actual game breaking glitches, like Novas human rocket glitch. However, on a consumer level and as someone who just enjoys UMVC, i'm sure everyone would appreciate new characters.

As far as fixing some characters, I don't think there really needs to be much attention focused on the tuning the top tiers as much as seeing to the lower tier characters getting some quality of life buffs, its a shame seeing how much of a bad matchup the lower tiers have against the higher up ones.

RadicalFuzz

The game doesn't really need a third revision, so there probably won't be one. It'd be great to see a compromise on TACs, like if they reset hitstun to initial values but scaled normally from there but I don't think that's a huge issue, seeing as both characters have full meter by the time someone dies. The reason the top tier characters (mainly Zero and Vergil) are very annoying is because they can get tons of damage off of a glancing hit and that they can be completely safe about it. The damage isn't even a problem compared to the second point. Did Zero use a wrong move? Not anymore, just Buster. Did Vergil whiff Stinger? Nope, just go into Swords for ~5 seconds of free lockdown and mixups. If they had to take risks to hit me I'd be perfectly fine with getting hit. And Tengu's right, some characters just lose to others. What can Hsien-Ko/Wright/Tron do against Zero/Vergil? I'm not saying make them so good they're winning every major, that'd likely create a similar problem. They just either need better ways to deal with these safe approaches or the safe approaches need to be more costly, whether it's meter, charge time on buster, or whatever.

YawDan

I'd say the replacement for Dark Phoenix is MorriDoom.

My sentiment as pretty much similar to the above. I think Wesker isn't as prominent as people have not only improved, but are using better teams so we're able to deal with him better. I think a patch is needed to get rid of some of the glitches like the aforementioned Nova glitch, Vergil's round trip glitch, the glitch where selecting a dead characters assisted would cause your point character to disappear so you could completely avoid a hyper then reappear after it had ended, and so on.

As far as damage goes, the only patch I would really ask for is for Vergil to get a slight damage nerf, as I believe his damage output is high considering all the pros he already has. And I do think there may need to be a slight modification to Zero's normals to tone them down (disjointed hitboxes, high priority and fast start-up). Though I don't there needs to be a major character rebalance. Instead of buffing low-tiers, people can just pick better teams, or utilize the other tech in the game like crossover counters, THC. A character we like may not be great like Hsien-ko or Phoenix Wright, but it's really our fault if we decide to match them with Haggar and Frank West, not the character design.

I also love the infinites lol. Phoenix is very much viable again now because of them.

DevilJin 01

Yeah Morri/Doom is like a more balanced replacement of Dark Phoenix that you can activate sooner.  

Dark Phoenix is still Dark Phoenix, but regular Phoenix doesn't destroy the cast even without XF like she did in Vanilla which helps a lot.  Plus there's just a shit ton of tech against DP and because of the general changes to the game, Phoenix players are often forced to burn XF while they are regular Jean to hopefully get the 5 bars with the extra meter gain from XF3.  Which kills off some of the time they can be in XF once they attain Dark Phoenix. Which means more Dark Phoenix getting bopped when she runs out of juice and Phoenix players actually having to know how to use XFless Dark Phoenix. Which in Vanilla you could pretty much get away without knowing how to use no juice DP.

Dark Radiance

This game needs more than just a revision. It needs a complete overhaul. The mechanics and the way the game functions is just terrible. I still don't feel this game is even a slight improvement over Vanilla. X-factor is still way too strong, hitboxes are still out of control, damage is still sky high for no damn reason... This is still a really bad game needs fixing. Ultimate didn't do anything. 

TuboWare

Dark Radiance said:

This game needs more than just a revision. It needs a complete overhaul. The mechanics and the way the game functions is just terrible. I still don't feel this game is even a slight improvement over Vanilla. X-factor is still way too strong, hitboxes are still out of control, damage is still sky high for no damn reason... This is still a really bad game needs fixing. Ultimate didn't do anything. 

It seems like you just don't like the game, which is fine.

The game is balanced well in comparison to past Vs. series games. This game is a HUGE improvement over vanilla in just about every way. DHC glitch gave the game no reason to ever be discovered beyond DHC glitch. Would TAC infinites ever been discovered? Probably, but there would be no reason to use them. 

Morridoom is annoying, but to be fair, there is only a handful of people using the shell effectively. 

Some of the hitboxes are insane *cough* Vergil *cough* But it's not enough to break the game.

My only real issue with the games mechanics is that you cannot combo after a countered TAC. There is no real risk to doing TACs because there is no punishment for getting countered other than you drop your combo.

charlie88

The damage in this game will continue to be high as long as you are allowed to throw vergil,strange, dorm and any character that has unscaled bs in the game. Give everyone felicias damage and buff everyone's health while improving the underplayed characters and only SLIGHTLY altering the top and high tiers and this game will be fine. When niggas can do the same move 50 million times and it kills the highest health character in the game for meter neutral or positive its a problem. Especially since its easy to kill pixies in this game with dhc's.

Xfactor isn't as bad as it was but it still can be tweaked. Lower the speed boost and have lv3 xfactor damage be as high as the current level 1 damage is and it will be fine. Tac infinites should ONLY be allowed to characters who can't do damage otherwise and even still it should have a limit on the number of reps and meter build. There is no reason why a person should be able to build 5 meters and place the opponent into the worst absolute position they can be in and practically win the game for free.

But more on topic the games damage is still too high. No one should be allowed to off someone on one hit period. I do wish meter gain was higher though and I wish everyone had an otg-able move thats a non-hyper.

Smoothjazz101

I really don't understand how Morridoom can be compared to Dark Phoenix beyond 'They're really good and can spam fireballs'

DevilJin 01

Smoothjazz101 said:

I really don't understand how Morridoom can be compared to Dark Phoenix beyond 'They're really good and can spam fireballs'

Capcom did a good job making each character as unique as possible...although they both share in common what they force the opponent to do.  Which is force them to do something other than typical Marvel 3 to win a match (run forward with sword normals and dive kicks).  In Vanilla Dark Phoenix (and Jean) could utilize multiple homing salty balls which was like her hidden missiles back then.

  They both force an emphasis on using projectiles, movement and projectile countering tools to defeat them when they are on point.  Phoenix forced that in Vanilla, and now Morrigan forces that more quickly into the match in Ultimate.

Essentially they both have the ability to flood multiple areas of the screen for a long period of time and it causes people salt.  In Vanilla...Phoenix was the only person doing that at that time which is why I used her as a comparison to back then.  Nobody else was using long term flooding in Vanilla as a regular tournament strategy except her.  Which in Vanilla both Jean and Dark Phoenix were capable of such.

RECESSIONTIME

Smoothjazz101 wrote: »

I really don't understand how Morridoom can be compared to Dark Phoenix beyond 'They're really good and can spam fireballs'

Yeah. Morridoom is like godtier synergy but only decent individually.

Anchor characters comparable are Strider and Vergil.

YawDan

Smoothjazz101 said:

I really don't understand how Morridoom can be compared to Dark Phoenix beyond 'They're really good and can spam fireballs'

Along with what Devil Jin said, I also meant that MorriDoom is now like the most broken thing in Ultimate, much like how Phoenix was in Vanilla lol.

DevilJin 01

YawDan wrote: »

Smoothjazz101 said:<br />
I really don't understand how Morridoom can be compared to Dark Phoenix beyond 'They're really good and can spam fireballs'<br />
<br />
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Along with what Devil Jin said, I also meant that MorriDoom is now like the most broken thing in Ultimate, much like how Phoenix was in Vanilla lol.

Yeah the thing that was most broken in Vanilla was the thing that kept the opponent from moving.  The thing that is so far most broken in Ultimate is...the thing that keeps the opponent from moving.  People wanna just go hard and get their hit in first and be a hero and Morrigan says no to that.