Elena's Techs and Findings

HousecnbHousecnb Joined: Posts: 251
edited March 2013 in Elena
This thread is supposed to be a compilation of all kinds of findings and knowledges about Elena. I'll try to make it updated for a little while, but I can't promise because I have been busy. Please, contribute!

Safe Jumps:

Unfortunately, Elena's throws doesn't give her much frame advantage and they also push the opponents way to far, even on corner. The following setup works nicely against characters with slow reversals, such as Law, Chun, Nina, Julia, Alisa, Ogre, meterless Elena and more.

b.throw, dash, f.jump hp (Safe from 6 frame reversals, empty jump is safe from all reversals.)

Lk Lynx Tail: (missing, come back later)

Sweep, wait a bit, f.jump mk (Safe from 5 frame reversals, a bit hard to do, you have to "cancel" the end of the animation... sometimes the visuals of this game doens't help much.)


Not only Ex Rhino Horn is the only version able to hit crouching opponents, it ends with an special hard knockdown, and it's also a true blockstring from cr.mp and puts you on frame advantage. Turns out there's even more, as KitL19 showed: it can also make some strong mixups in the corner. After the knockdown, instantly dash forward to hop to the other side, and from there you can take some actions to either stay there, or hop to the other side again with back+HK, cr.mp, and more. Very confusing, more tests shall be done.

Spinning Scythe no More:

Spinning Scythe is my personal choice for worst move in the game. It deals very little damage, it's a bit unsafe on block, it's not a blockstring from s.lk, it's not even a blockstring between both hits, and it's raw launchable on reaction during it's whole duration. 

It's uses as safe tag options is also not the best. By tagging after the first hit, though Elena will get hit by everything, some alpha counters and launchers can be punished by your incoming character, but this is very matchup specific. Strike invincible reversals done by your opponent will  almost aways hit both of your characters, leading to disaster.

The good news: Lynx Tail does everything you would want to do with Spinning Scythe, and more. It deals more damage, it's a true blockstring from s.lk, hits low, gives a nice hard knockdown, it's very safe (only punishable by the quickest supers in the game), it's also a very good option for safe tags (lk and mk not only tags you safely, it gives you frame advantage; Hk version will keep the opponent locked), and Ex versions gives you good options for damaging solo combos. It's only downside is that it's also raw launchable (no surprise, it's a low strike). Hk version also can be interrupted after the second hit, but that's no issue if you're planning to tag.

Hk Scratch Wheel is also a simple but effective way to tag safely.

Vanilla's Days are Over, Get in Their Faces:

SfxTk 2013 no longer rewards "lame" gameplay as it used to, so it's very important to develop an offensive plan, even if this game's focus is still perceived as footsies. Get a read over your opponents style and find your way in.

The best thing about Elena's high/low game is that your opponent can't really count on reactions alone all the time, f.mk (overhead) and df.hk (low) are too fast, and she also has slower, but safe options to mixup as well. So they have to antecipate and commit. 

A quick example: after cancelling cr.mp with Mallet Smash a couple times, try cancelling into Rhino Horn. If you conditioned your opponent well enough, you'll be reward with some nice frame advantage on block.

This opens some interesting possibilities for Elena. Both Mallet Smash and Rhino Horn leaves at very good advantage on block, and it should be your goal as a Elena player to perceive when to use these moves during footsies and start your offense. 

Also, Elena's dash covers a lot of distance quickly, so you can aways dash in during the recovery of some random whiff and begin your stuff. 


Post edited by Housecnb on

Comments

  • GemakaiGemakai Making this look cool! Joined: Posts: 1,088
    Good notes, especially the safe jump stuff.

    Though instead of a sweep after LK Lynxtail, why not do something else a bit faster to better time the jump?

    As far as Spin scythe goes, Lynx Tail is better for block strings, but for combos, Spin Scythe Tag Cancels are good for keeping the opponent grounded and continuing with a full ground combo with your partner.
    BBCP: Kokonoe, Bullet | GGXrd: Slayer, Elphelt, Ky | Skullgirls: Cerebella, Filia, Beowulf,
    SFxT: Elena, Dudley, Vega, Asuka, Julia, Paul | USF4: Vega, Makoto, Elena, Decapre, Dudley


  • HousecnbHousecnb Joined: Posts: 251
    Oh, that part is a bit of a mess. Lk Lynx Tail safe jump is missing, so there's the back throw safe jump, Lynx safe jump (still blank, will test later) and the sweep safe jump.
    Will fix it soon enough.

    Spin scythe will only be a go to option for combos for a few teams, really. It's really low damage for a game with this scale system. If you're going to burn the meter, there should be almost aways a better combo available. It can be used for yolo resets, but that's about it.

    So yeah, it can be used for combos, but it still probably shouldn't be. For most teams, that is.
  • GemakaiGemakai Making this look cool! Joined: Posts: 1,088
    edited March 2013
    I think it kind of depends if you want to keep your opponent grounded for your partner. That said, I agree it's a pretty ass move right now. I'd say it needs a mix of the following: Higher damage (like 30-35 a hit), become a true block string, and/or not be considered a crouching attack for raw launch purposes.

    Edit: Would you mind if I used this stuff for the Elena Guide update?
    BBCP: Kokonoe, Bullet | GGXrd: Slayer, Elphelt, Ky | Skullgirls: Cerebella, Filia, Beowulf,
    SFxT: Elena, Dudley, Vega, Asuka, Julia, Paul | USF4: Vega, Makoto, Elena, Decapre, Dudley


  • HousecnbHousecnb Joined: Posts: 251
    edited March 2013
    No problem.

    I Think Elena is so good right now that Capcom wanted to make at least one thing about her bad, and they chose SC. Don't really need it anyway.
  • GemakaiGemakai Making this look cool! Joined: Posts: 1,088
    edited March 2013
    Just tested out some stuff with Spin Scythe. The only case I found it was beneficial was Elena/Dudley where Dudley would come in on Spin Scythe hitting, do a little combo into normal MGB and then walk up throw. In other cases, it was just better to boost into launch with a 20 damage deficit
    BBCP: Kokonoe, Bullet | GGXrd: Slayer, Elphelt, Ky | Skullgirls: Cerebella, Filia, Beowulf,
    SFxT: Elena, Dudley, Vega, Asuka, Julia, Paul | USF4: Vega, Makoto, Elena, Decapre, Dudley


  • HousecnbHousecnb Joined: Posts: 251
    I actually play with Elena/Dudley as main team because they look cute together so I do have some knowledge on the team, all I can say is that I only use SC combos when I want to be gimmicky. Works a lot more than it will in a few months from now. =p

    If you wasted too much scale with confirms, ending the combo with SC xx tag may give you a decent reset opportunity, that's all I can advocate for this move.
  • LinksLinks No copyright law in the universe is gonna stop me! Joined: Posts: 956
    I have been switching it up between using different versions of Mallet Smash and Rhino Horn for corpse-hopping, and it's legit. I open people up a lot just by doing LK/HK Lynx Tail, and the MK Rhino Horn cross-over/HP Mallet Smash cross-over/LK Rhino Horn non-cross-over into cr. LK or just doing raw normal overhead to annoy. The occasional EX Mallet Smash is also good since it's harder to react to. And there are always the safe jumps as well.

    This might be old tech, idk. Just my two cents. :)
    Steam Profile: GottaGoFaaaaast
    Mains: Ultra SF4 - Cody, Evil Ryu, Dudley, Poison SFXT - Poison, Ogre, Elena, Dudley, Cody, Kazuya, Bryan, Ken, Asuka UMVC3 - Firebrand, Frank West, Super-Skrull and Wolverine, Taskmaster, Akuma
    SSBB - King Dedede, Zero Suit Samus, Luigi, DS3 - Talbain, Morrigan
  • KitL19KitL19 Joined: Posts: 1,649
    Links said:
    I have been switching it up between using different versions of Mallet Smash and Rhino Horn for corpse-hopping, and it's legit. I open people up a lot just by doing LK/HK Lynx Tail, and the MK Rhino Horn cross-over/HP Mallet Smash cross-over/LK Rhino Horn non-cross-over into cr. LK or just doing raw normal overhead to annoy. The occasional EX Mallet Smash is also good since it's harder to react to. And there are always the safe jumps as well.

    This might be old tech, idk. Just my two cents. :)
    That is olldddd tech but that doesn't make it any less effective =)
  • LinksLinks No copyright law in the universe is gonna stop me! Joined: Posts: 956
    Glad I could be of some help. 

    Recently I have taken advantage of the hard knockdown from Rhino Horn in order to switch without meter. In the corner with Dudley, you can even get a meaty overhead this way. 

    Hopefully this also isn't old. :D
    Steam Profile: GottaGoFaaaaast
    Mains: Ultra SF4 - Cody, Evil Ryu, Dudley, Poison SFXT - Poison, Ogre, Elena, Dudley, Cody, Kazuya, Bryan, Ken, Asuka UMVC3 - Firebrand, Frank West, Super-Skrull and Wolverine, Taskmaster, Akuma
    SSBB - King Dedede, Zero Suit Samus, Luigi, DS3 - Talbain, Morrigan
  • LinksLinks No copyright law in the universe is gonna stop me! Joined: Posts: 956
    Elena anti-roll setup:
    After ending a combo with MK Rhino Horn, use HK Rhino Horn to cross them over and prevent rolling. Against characters with poor reversals (>6f?, need to test more) you can do a neutral jump aerial on them as they stand up, for instance nj. MP > HP target combo.

    Mix-up:
    After MK Lynx Tail hits, wait a tic, then jump forward MK for non-crossup, Super-jump forward MK for crossup, or jump forward LP > MK target combo. Pretty tough to block IMO...

    That's all I got for now. :)
    Steam Profile: GottaGoFaaaaast
    Mains: Ultra SF4 - Cody, Evil Ryu, Dudley, Poison SFXT - Poison, Ogre, Elena, Dudley, Cody, Kazuya, Bryan, Ken, Asuka UMVC3 - Firebrand, Frank West, Super-Skrull and Wolverine, Taskmaster, Akuma
    SSBB - King Dedede, Zero Suit Samus, Luigi, DS3 - Talbain, Morrigan
  • melflomilmelflomil Above Average Fighter Joined: Posts: 2,813
    Dont forget to abuse her hk an back hk. Both minus one block but with all the four frames normals it's basically 0. do it at max range and you wont get blown up by 3 frame jabs after you try to spam lk. Also abuse her mp.HP target combo when you decide to jump. Delay it as much as possible to hit crouchers with the second part.
    SF5 = Laura
    UMvC3= X-23, Chris Redfield & Dante
    PSN= melflomil
  • SamuelVimesSamuelVimes Joined: Posts: 1,666
    I know that the crossups Elena can do off hard knockdowns are well documented, but can we talk about this one for a second?



    When I recorded this setup I was unable to DP out of it. Is this because rolls are punishable at this time (I forget what frames they are strike punishable, or even if they can be, lol), or more plausibly I am just bad at wakeup DP?

    And speaking of oki, for my BnB I have been using rhino/c.mp/rhino/slide as opposed to finishing with Scratch because it is easier for me to hit. What I want to know is what kind of oki can I get off this, because the recovery of slide seems to be too long to do the normal stuff.
  • vincinigtonvincinigton Joined: Posts: 76
    After watching this video just messing around I realized that you can do this same forward roll crossup after her bnb ending with hk scratch wheel. Thanks for the video I never knew that tech :)
  • SamuelVimesSamuelVimes Joined: Posts: 1,666
    Oh no problem. But what happens if they quick rise and you do that will you be whiff punished or at a safe enough distance to block?
  • DBCDBC Until GGXXAC+R... Joined: Posts: 746
    edited May 2013
    That's a funky-looking setup, SamuelVimes. Does that the Mallet hit same-side? Also, on block, does Elena still land behind?

    You couldn't get DP out because you can't do reversals after rolling. That was a universal system change made for version 2013 to add risk to rolling. Also, rolls are completely invulnerable to strikes, but have a vulnerability window to throws.
    Post edited by DBC on
    Ask not what the characters on your team can do, but what the team can do with your characters.
  • vincinigtonvincinigton Joined: Posts: 76
    Oh no problem. But what happens if they quick rise and you do that will you be whiff punished or at a safe enough distance to block?
    Yeah you are far away enough to not be punished if they quick rise. They wouldn't be in uppercut range because of the pushback of the hk scratch wheel. Btw for some reason I am finding the timing to be easier using cr. mk.

  • SamuelVimesSamuelVimes Joined: Posts: 1,666
    I should say I was not the one to find the setup, just found it online lol. I will test those out for you when I get off work DBC. I know mallet can hit same side not just crossup, but I haven't tested if it is as meaty as the crossup variant.
  • vincinigtonvincinigton Joined: Posts: 76
    edited May 2013
    I should say I was not the one to find the setup, just found it online lol. I will test those out for you when I get off work DBC. I know mallet can hit same side not just crossup, but I haven't tested if it is as meaty as the crossup variant.

    Lol I had just found it online and was gonna post it on the thread when I seen you already had. Definitely gonna keep messing around with Elena and see what else I can find. Also I should point out that the crossup setup ending with the hk scratch wheel you can only do midscreen. So if you don't want to push them all the way to the corner only do one rhino horn then end with hk scratch wheel.
    Post edited by vincinigton on
  • midnightgreen20midnightgreen20 I got them moves like jaguar Joined: Posts: 177
    So I have been messing around with Elena a bit and I'm not sure if this was talked about in any of the topics but I figured I'd share, and it has to do with how I view and play Elena.

    I think Elena is a relentless lockdown character who will keep you guessing every second once she gets in with a deadly high/low mixup game that also enhances with the player's ability to read the opponent. The way she accomplishes this is with her lynx tail pressure. As you may know by know, after a blocked lynx tail, she is free to move once both hands are on the ground, canceling the rest of the attack's animation. At the start of this, you can simply follow with a s.:lk: to continue which will give you a counter hit if your opponent hits a button and do whatever from there.

    But then it gets even trickier from there, because after a blocked lynx tail, you could just go right into an overhead from the animation. Or perhaps you might even go with a mallet smash to get a nice high attack and combo after it. Or maybe you notice your opponent likes to push a button at times, so after a lynx tail... RAW LAUNCH THAT SHIT!

    And then you still have options after that of course. For one, all of the lynx tail pressure I spoke of involved the :lk: version. You can actually sometimes catch people off guard with the :hk: version because they've been conditioned to only have the one set of kicks hit, rather than the 2 that the :hk: provides. You could also alter the timing of when you make your next move. This means you allow the handstand animation to run longer to lull your opponent into a false sense of security and lure out a button if you believe they will do that.

    The best way to sum up Elena in my mind is that she plays a lot more like a Tekken character in the game, keeping up pressure while incorporating a dealy high/low aspect of it. She just achieves this with a combination of specials and normals, unlike the Tekken cast where usually that comes in the form of Tekken strings.
  • SamuelVimesSamuelVimes Joined: Posts: 1,666
    You can also tag cancel Lynx Tail to add any shenanigans your partner has to the above-style of mixups. The longer versions give me enough time to start King's elbow rush 50/50, for instance, while the shorter allows for a tick throw of sorts. What would be nice is if lk Tail had enough blockstun so your incoming character could punish a Raw Launcher, but I am in China so I cannot test. The TC options are heavily Alpha Counterable, so it would be badass if we had a bait.
  • LinksLinks No copyright law in the universe is gonna stop me! Joined: Posts: 956
    You can also tag cancel Lynx Tail to add any shenanigans your partner has to the above-style of mixups. The longer versions give me enough time to start King's elbow rush 50/50, for instance, while the shorter allows for a tick throw of sorts. What would be nice is if lk Tail had enough blockstun so your incoming character could punish a Raw Launcher, but I am in China so I cannot test. The TC options are heavily Alpha Counterable, so it would be badass if we had a bait.

    I have been doing this a lot more recently and would agree that it's pretty effective for safe tags. Also, when you tag cancel the HK Lynx Tail, you can have incoming character perform a dash, which will make the last hit whiff. Doing so leaves the target in a prolonged standing stun state, allowing for fun combos.

    Example:
    HK Lynx Tail, tag cancel (Bryan comes in), Bryan Cl. HP xx MP Fisherman's Slam, Cr. LP, F + MK > MP > LP xx Mach Breaker.
    Steam Profile: GottaGoFaaaaast
    Mains: Ultra SF4 - Cody, Evil Ryu, Dudley, Poison SFXT - Poison, Ogre, Elena, Dudley, Cody, Kazuya, Bryan, Ken, Asuka UMVC3 - Firebrand, Frank West, Super-Skrull and Wolverine, Taskmaster, Akuma
    SSBB - King Dedede, Zero Suit Samus, Luigi, DS3 - Talbain, Morrigan
  • KitL19KitL19 Joined: Posts: 1,649
    edited August 2013
    Back from SF4 scene bearing gifts!
    BnBs
    Elena players need to step their BnBs up.
    Cr.lkx2 > st.mp is a 2 frame link and allows you to get your mixup game going between Mallet smash, CADC, and lynx tail, since st.mp is 2 hit and it gives you time to confirm if the opponent is standing or not.
    Best of all it yields the same damage as linking into cr.mp without the 1 frame link or risk of being launcher bait in blockstrings.

    Kara Throws
    Elena has 2 kara throws from what I can tell st.lp and st.HK
    St.Lp is the worse out of the two and the most detrimental as you actually move backwards a good sizeable amount if you mistakenly perform a kara throw (koto habits). Whereas St.HK moves her forward by a noticeable amount.

    Both move in their respective directions depending on how much you delay the throw input. The sooner you press it the sooner you press it the less distance you get.

    The maximum I got them to move was about half of the training stage tiles, which again sucks if you kara lp throw by mistake.

    Random stuff
    Despite Far.HP being garbage and widely overlooked with good reason. This move beats out dominant air to airs clean, but the timing is variable. Diving tackles like King's and Nina are beaten out be the part of the leg that is closest to Elena's face (Thigh area). While other jumpins are beaten out be the lower part of the shin.

    St.HP> St.HK (Whiff) > cr.MP xx MK. Rhino Horn/ HK Scratch wheel for 252/ 284 damage.

    cr.HK is also a great trip guard against non divekick and diving tackle moves.

    Ex rhino horn pass through property also works off of tag cancel so if you're desperate you can use it for 2 meter and tag into a partner who has easy pandora combos for a victory. This can even be done midscreen although it's a bit trickier.


    My personal favorite is with Rolento as a partner.

    No power gems

    cr.lk > cr.lk > st.mp (2 hits) xx EX Rhino (262 damage)

    Or

    cr.MP xx EX Rhino (280 damage) TC

    Rolento Jump d.mk towards corner on the second pogo j.MP/j.MK > cr.MP >st.lp > HK Patriot circlex3 Pandora

    Elena st.mp (2 hits) xx Brave dance 423 damage.

    685 - 703 damage total

    If they roll towards the corner they have to guess which side Rolento hopped and on top of that they must know the mixup otherwise it's up to Rolento's discretion to take advantage of the situation, especially if you condition them to roll towards the corner off of ex Ehino.
  • LinksLinks No copyright law in the universe is gonna stop me! Joined: Posts: 956
    KitL19 wrote: »
    Back from SF4 scene bearing gifts!
    ...
    Interesting stuff about the kara throws. I hadn't thought to try those with Elena, so I now have something new to lab. :D

    I don't really agree with using St. HP as an anti-air for a couple of reasons:
    1. St. MP and St. LP are one-button, quick AAs which work against most things pretty reliably. Also, from St. MP you can cancel into a special move (such as MP Mallet Smash) for some counter hit combos and other set ups. The main problem is that St. HP is really slow in comparison to these moves.
    2. LK Scratch Wheel has upper body invincibility and will beat jump ins if it's done early. It's the most reliable anti-air you've got.

    I used the EX Rhino Horn setup on someone this weekend, and he got salty, saying I was using gimmicks and what not. To be fair it was a gimmick. :)

    However, I didn't have Rolento. If your foe is already cornered, you can do a stupid setup where you dash forwards twice, then whiff B + HK, and it looks like you'll end up in the corner, but you end up in front. If you change the timing a bit, you stay in the corner. Dirty setup.
    Steam Profile: GottaGoFaaaaast
    Mains: Ultra SF4 - Cody, Evil Ryu, Dudley, Poison SFXT - Poison, Ogre, Elena, Dudley, Cody, Kazuya, Bryan, Ken, Asuka UMVC3 - Firebrand, Frank West, Super-Skrull and Wolverine, Taskmaster, Akuma
    SSBB - King Dedede, Zero Suit Samus, Luigi, DS3 - Talbain, Morrigan
  • KitL19KitL19 Joined: Posts: 1,649
    Links wrote: »
    ...

    The St.HP IMO is a far better option than st.lp and st.mp vs King and Nina's jHP and you get a nice fat combo off of it. It's worth the effort and it's only slightly more difficult than Chun Li's df+lk. Try it for a bit in training mode. Although I do agree st.lp/mp and scratch wheel are better in general and the only reason I tried St.HP was because the amount of Ninas and Kings I've run into this weekend..

    I'm just sad whenever I watch ssf4evo replays and Elena players are doing dumb stagnant play. The corner tech I found isn't used. Optimal combos aren't used. I don't even see them trip guard with cr.HK. All I see is cr.mp x2 Rhino horn and far HK... T-T

    And I know about that set up I wrote down a lot of them in the other thread. =)

    I'll dedicate some time later to finding some safe jumps and other stuff later today after my copy of Dragon's Crown arrives.
  • LinksLinks No copyright law in the universe is gonna stop me! Joined: Posts: 956
    Well if there's one thing I try to do, it's optimal combos. :) My confirms still need some work sometimes, but in a buffer/punish situation I will always get 350+.

    I need to lab far HP. Does it have invulnerability on Elena's leg or something?
    Steam Profile: GottaGoFaaaaast
    Mains: Ultra SF4 - Cody, Evil Ryu, Dudley, Poison SFXT - Poison, Ogre, Elena, Dudley, Cody, Kazuya, Bryan, Ken, Asuka UMVC3 - Firebrand, Frank West, Super-Skrull and Wolverine, Taskmaster, Akuma
    SSBB - King Dedede, Zero Suit Samus, Luigi, DS3 - Talbain, Morrigan
  • KitL19KitL19 Joined: Posts: 1,649
    No invulnerability from what I can tell but the hit box in the space between her head and leg is really good for some reason. I tried to use her st.mk cr.HP target combo but it doesn't land.

    I also tested some more post EX Rhino situations. Once I test out a few more things (such as safe jumps) I'll post them down here.
  • LinksLinks No copyright law in the universe is gonna stop me! Joined: Posts: 956
    KitL19 wrote: »
    No invulnerability from what I can tell but the hit box in the space between her head and leg is really good for some reason. I tried to use her st.mk cr.HP target combo but it doesn't land.
    It seems like this must only be good for certain jump-ins. I tried it against Ken's J. HK and Kaz's J. HK and had no luck unless I got a counter hit. Even then, given this move's huge startup, it's very unlikely you'll get a counter hit. Why not just go for St. MP or LP? They anti-air roughly the same range and are way faster.

    Also, on counter hit LP, you can do St. LP, St. MK > D + HP, Cr. HK for 232 damage and a safe jump setup.


    By the way, I started on a video walkthrough for Elena, but I think I'm going to start over because I realized I completely forgot to mention that LP... So look for that in a few days.
    Steam Profile: GottaGoFaaaaast
    Mains: Ultra SF4 - Cody, Evil Ryu, Dudley, Poison SFXT - Poison, Ogre, Elena, Dudley, Cody, Kazuya, Bryan, Ken, Asuka UMVC3 - Firebrand, Frank West, Super-Skrull and Wolverine, Taskmaster, Akuma
    SSBB - King Dedede, Zero Suit Samus, Luigi, DS3 - Talbain, Morrigan
  • KitL19KitL19 Joined: Posts: 1,649
    Yea that's what I said lol it's garbage, BUT against really dominant jump ins it's very effective. Mostly as an anti King and Nina tool. To elaborate jumpins with a more vertical reach than horizontal reach it beats out. On every other jump in just use st.mp or st.lp. I've gotten it to beat out a lot of "sharper" jump ins in actual matches like Chun Li's jHK. But it's not a reactionary AA it's more predictive.

    The random stuff section is more food for thought than anything.
    Moves that aren't used as much or moves that can be used differently compared to how they are normally used.

    For example against characters with a shorter launcher range I poke with max range cr.mk just because she pulls back. It makes them whiff, and can easily be followed up with st.lk.

    Anyways I'm almost done with Dragon's Crown. After which I will post some useful info.

    If you're doing a video series though I might as well share what I have so far. I was trying to figure out a way to get a safe jump or a valid left right mixup off of ex rhino.

    So far ex Rhino dash neutral jump jmp jHP tc works way often against a lot of characters. (I'll do the math later for safe jump set ups) But it always keeps her in the corner, but after finding the backward kara throw I was thinking of utilizing that to move her backwards and hit in front. And since her HK kara moves her forward it would be difficult to predict her adequately enough for a proper committed reversal.

    :O I also got a great idea for great Elena and Christie tech.
  • vincinigtonvincinigton Joined: Posts: 76
    Has anyone ever pointed out that Elena's j. hp can cross up? I am certain the people who are really good at finding setups can put it to use. Right now for me I can not find a proper setup to net it every time sort of like Vega's cross up j. hp.
  • KitL19KitL19 Joined: Posts: 1,649
    edited August 2013
    So here's some safe jumps off of EX rhino mix up and some others as well

    4/5 frame safe jump (From what I can tell tested on Cammy and Sagat treat it as a 5 frame unless you're Sako)

    No Rolls Allowed
    (Corner situations)
    EX Rhino > dash forward neutral jump MK. Cammy DP is blocked.

    In a frame perfect world ( I managed this twice out of at least 100 attempts).
    They have to roll towards the corner. Elena lands in front of them and is at frame advantage with jMk and the most reverse their block again (holding back towards the corner). And throughout all of that they cannot use a 4 frame dp.

    But in a more practical sense it's the perfect 5 frame safe jump. They still must roll towards the corner and if they do Elena lands in front of them, but her jMK whiffs. If they don't roll then they have to block in the right direction. I tried testing jMK towards the corner to see if this is autopilot, but the dummy recording is silly. Nj mk is more ambiguous though.


    Midscreen Safe jumps
    (Beaten by Rolls)

    4 frame safe jump
    BNB(example: cr.mp xx MK Rhino>cr.MP xx mk Rhino) Dash st.HK whiff neutral jump mk.
    It works off of anything ending in MK Rhino, but be careful not cancel the last few frames of MK Rhino's recovery into dash as it ruins the entire set up.

    Edit: This is height dependent so you have to gauge the height visually off of any other BnB. (ex lynx tail etc)
    Anti DP in corner
    (Beats DP mash due to how high she hits the dp but beaten by delayed dp or 3-4 frame dps)

    EX Rhino st.lk (whiff) forward jump mk - Beaten by rolls


    Will add more soon.
    Post edited by KitL19 on
  • SamuelVimesSamuelVimes Joined: Posts: 1,666
    so when people were bitching about how strong Elena's EX RH is in corner oki, they were talking about those setups you have up there KitL19? I gotta take notes.
  • KitL19KitL19 Joined: Posts: 1,649
    edited August 2013
    There are some other setups in this thread.

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/176353/ex-rhino-horn-oh-you

    The b+HK is the tried and true set up I feel.

    Also the corner anti roll setup you can just tap whichever direction is away from the corner really quickly and jump and you'd end up landing out of the corner. Pretty much it boils down to taking any action other than jumping moves you outside of the corner even st.lp (which moves you backwards) I haven't tested throws, target combos, and crouching normals for some reason (I blame laziness). Anytime you notice your opponent block your mixup it's up to you to change sides or continue. At it's worst if you tap left it's a fake cross up that's not a safe jump and the can roll out. So far for me I got it to be a 6 frame safe jump (still rollable). But I prefer to stick with a safe 4 frame safe jump until they start blocking it.

    Also for some strange reason I couldn't get tekken characters that I play to ever switch sides if I tag cancel off of the 2nd hit in the corner. No matter how many times I dashed. They always stayed in front and the opponent can't roll (will test more though). I got Christie and Nina to cross up on the first hit however. In which case dashx4 neutral j.HP (Nina) j.MK (christie) are Uber ambiguous and I believe they are also safe jumps I just dunno how safe. And the Nina one works midscreen as well she crosses up in time so the opponent has to roll away from Nina.

    But after playing a lot of matches I found out you can literally just hold up after dashing in the corner and it's a 4 frame safe jump. I just have no idea how to replicate the one where if they roll towards the corner it's still safe. I must've delayed something. Tested before bed. I'm 100% certain I didn't do this before but Super jump towards the corner seems to be a Safe jump if they roll. Will test more later; too tired lol.

    I'll probably post more when I get over dragon's crown (100 hours in so far).
    Post edited by KitL19 on
  • KitL19KitL19 Joined: Posts: 1,649
    cr.mp forces you to switch sides. cr.lk doesn't Maybe I can find some safe options after lynx tail next
  • KitL19KitL19 Joined: Posts: 1,649
    So after testing some more forced roll set ups I came up with more practical ways to cause it with Elena.


    So here's an example of some fun stuff that you can do. (that are actually practical since this time I tested on myself, a dummy holding forward, and a dummy holding back >_>)

    MK Rhino ender> Dashx2 > HP Mallet (whiff) > Back+HK (hits meaty) > cr.mp works and lands meaty, blows up crouch techs, and at the very least it's +1/or +2 on block. And if it lands meaty CH you're +9 on hit. I even linked it into raw super for 400 damage xD. (At times like this I wish her cr.HP was special cancelable)

    I'm not sure how many active frames it has but it certainly doesn't feel like a 1 frame link when I try to land cr.mp either that or it's a lenient 1 frame link. And I managed to hit B+HK at 3 different heights so it should have at the very least 4 active frames maybe 5. If you hit it properly you should see the training dummy's foot reel back (like the first hits of HK Lynx).

    If they roll then they get hit by St.HK if they stand there they get hit by meaty B+HK, but the timing isn't auto pilot there is a bit of delay after the hp mallet whiff, but everything must be done very quickly. But with a bit of practice you should be able to get it down to muscle memory.

    If they don't block and just leave the stick neutral and DP it beats your follow up options otherwise it's safe from everything. Here's another surprising trait it hits High but it's also considered low hitting. Meaning it beats a ton of low crush moves such as Dorya, but it also loses to move that are invincible to airborne attacks such as law's flip kick or Asuka's F+LK. Asuka's option requires strict timing however I either had to mash or turn on turbo to escape it with F+LK and counter lost 100% of the time. Jin's Swaying Willow out beats it; it also beat out Kazuya's qcf+PP clean, sadly Nina's lk geyser didn't work against it as well, and traded with Ryu's LP SRK so it's safe to assume that if it's not invincible (or at least strike invulnerable) from at least frame 1-3 it is either wrecked or trades. And Elena's LK Scratch wheel is also beaten out because it's High crush and the attack hits the lower body.


    So here's a list of when you can do this forced roll set up, the conditions/spacing (if necessary), and the timing. Bear in mind that HP mallet will be the best to use in almost every scenerio as it's faster and seems to recover a little quicker allowing you to land a meaty cr.MP.

    -Lynx tail (all versions except EX) -- Must be done very close to the opponent cancel the recovery animation with any mallet --- Timing is lenient .

    - Rhino Horn (All versions except EX) -- Dash twice then mallet. Can even be done on max range RHs --- mallet must be done pretty quickly.

    - Mallet smash (HP) -- Dash once and use any mallet --- Timing is beyond asap cancel the dash into HP mallet immediately and make sure to perfectly time the B+HK otherwise it whiffs or doesn't hit perfectly meaty (still can hit somewhat meaty).
  • LinksLinks No copyright law in the universe is gonna stop me! Joined: Posts: 956
    Yeah, HP Mallet is godlike for preventing/reversing rolls. And also, ending a combo with HP Mallet and then crossing over with another HP Mallet looks kinda funny. :D

    Also, ending a midscreen combo in MK Rhino and then immediately performing HK Rhino crosses over. Nothing too useful, but can influence rolls and if you dash up afterwards, you can start some pressure.
    Steam Profile: GottaGoFaaaaast
    Mains: Ultra SF4 - Cody, Evil Ryu, Dudley, Poison SFXT - Poison, Ogre, Elena, Dudley, Cody, Kazuya, Bryan, Ken, Asuka UMVC3 - Firebrand, Frank West, Super-Skrull and Wolverine, Taskmaster, Akuma
    SSBB - King Dedede, Zero Suit Samus, Luigi, DS3 - Talbain, Morrigan
  • vincinigtonvincinigton Joined: Posts: 76
    I don't know if this has been mentioned but you also can set up a meaty off Elena's slide. You can do this from any distance- just do Elena's slide and then wait for the visual cue for the opponent to land on their back. As soon as they land on their back dash forward once then do Elena's round arch (back hk). The closer you are when doing the slide means the quicker you will have to forward dash. Although be warned that this set up is not an anti roll setup meaning the opponent can roll to escape out of this at any time.
  • vincinigtonvincinigton Joined: Posts: 76
    There is a way to set up a meaty lp mallet smasher off of Elena's lynx tail. Off of any versions you just cancel the ending animation of the lynx tail and step back just slightly and do cr. lp (You will know if done right because lp mallet smasher only hit once and land close towards their ankles). After the cr. lp immediately do her lp mallet and it will hit the opponent whether crouching or standing. The best part is unlike the back hk meaty this one can beat out Law's flip kick and plus since the hit causes a stand you can connect her full bnb whether opponent is crouching or not. You can get around a good 342 damage off meaty lp mallet or continue more pressure with Elena( don't really know frames but I think Elena is plus frames off lp mallet).
Sign In or Register to comment.