UMVC3 Spider-Man - What's left to discover?

RaohRaoh AU SpiderJoined: Posts: 968
It has been quite a while since new stuff have been posted here. I think this would be a good place to consolidate tech which have been discovered (and will be discovered) to assist in Spidey's gameplay.

So far, here's what we've got:

kara-sting
fake TAC reset
missile corner cross-up
incoming UWT guard break DHC
MS + just frame assist hit DHC glitch (damage and HSD reset)
wall bounce web throw glitch
SJ air-to-ground confirm
SJ air throw midscreen confirm
downward TAC infinite

What other upper tier characters have that Spidey may be able to do:

reliable midscreen SJ air-to-ground confirm (not position/trajectory reliant)
reliable midscreen SJ air throw confirm (ideally, just throw towards the corner for easier pick up)
incoming solo guard break to air throw (with or without pushblock and hopefully can be confirmed on hit)
reliable TAC infinite

Other unexplored stuff:

new assist combo extender/reset tech
new neutral assist tech

I am not sure if I left anything out but just mention it just in case I did.

The tech posted above will only go so far as to help Spidey overall as he's got some limitations when getting to open opponents up when they're finally used to the matchup. Although I prefer not to discuss about Spidey's neutral game as each player has their own playstyle, I think thread would also be a good place to discuss about his neutral as it will be one way to get the most out of the tech above.



Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom

Comments

  • AcidicEnemaAcidicEnema Joined: Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I've been trying to incorporate SJ> Air dash> attack into my game. Doing SJ > Airdash lets you get an attack out faster than normal jump> Airdash (don't have the Brady guide with me right now, but I think it shaves like 3-5 frames off). SJ> Airdash M is probably Spidey's fastest non-instant overhead and can even be chained for a double overhead... Too bad its hitbox is so small.
    "Studio-produced hetero porn is just a joke. Either the men are actually trying to steal screen time from the actress, or the cameraman is trying to give the actor a colonoscopy." - Taito
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 968
    Forward jM hits instantly on most medium sized characters, same with jL, I think. If you call an assist before you do the IOH, you can easily combo after. IAD jS is quite fast and can easily be confirmed off but the reach is quite short. It's not as fast and far reaching as as Mag's tri-jump jL but it can still open people up especially if backed up with assists. You can also zip cancel for a double overhead or mix it up by doing instant jS xx zip jM/H/S or jS xx zip xx air dash jM~M~H/S or jM~H/S or jH~S. Depending on your opponent's height, you will get double/triple or whiffed overheads and you can also do the zip xx air dash after spider bite for more overheads; just make sure you add assists to counter pushblocks and to cover your approach.

    As for instant sj air dash attacks, I haven't tested if you can actually get a lower/faster air dash normal attack. If it does, it's pretty good since it will be easy to do because you won't have to input quick downward directions after the sj unlike Doom, IM, etc.
    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • AcidicEnemaAcidicEnema Joined: Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 2013
    Yeah I re-checked my guide, and it basically says that if you SJ, you can air dash 3 frames earlier than you would be able to if you normal jump.

    It's actually pretty hard to do consistently though, because the timing is tight- air dash too early and it won't come out.

    I do think it's worth learning though because you don't need the opponent to already be in block stun to get it to connect, unlike his instant over head jump L and M. For starters, it makes spider man's inside mix up game a little stronger. let's say you jump attack and get pushed blocked, and you already anticipated the push block, so you forward dash to counter the push block, and get right back in his face. Normally, there's not much that spidey can do at this point to open up some one who knows the match up. That's one situation where having a fast over head which doesn't require an assist call would really pay off. Shaving 3 frames off his AD S makes it a lot harder to react to, and SJ instant AD m is definitely too fast to react too... Unfortunately it has even less range than SJ S and whiffs against a crouching morri.

    I know it doesn't seem like much lol, but yeah, spidey needs all the help he can get to optimise his unassisted mix ups.
    "Studio-produced hetero porn is just a joke. Either the men are actually trying to steal screen time from the actress, or the cameraman is trying to give the actor a colonoscopy." - Taito
  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    edited April 2013
    Even though Spidey's best spot (imo) is point, I still think it would be helpful to find a way to combo off of a cross-over counter. The specific assist that I had in mind is Spider-sting. It seems that the spider-sting assist is the heavy version, which makes combo-ing off of it a little harder because it knocks the opponent up higher, but I have been trying to get a combo that involves an up-forward web zip after the spider-sting to connect. I can get something like that off of a light spider-sting, but I've been having trouble with the crossover counter. If we could get a combo that works on happy birthday's, that would be even better.

    EDIT: I got a combo that works, but its pretty hard and impractical for how much you would actually use spider-sting as a crossover counter. Here's the combo: (block, :a1: + forward, spider-sting comes out) up-foward web zip, j.:m: j.:h: xx :h: web swing, air dash, j.:h: j.:s:, land, s.:m:, s.:h: xx :h: Spider-sting~bite, call missiles + cr.:h:, :s:, supejump, j.:m: j.:m: j.:h: j.:s:, airdash, zip forward-> j.:m: (to get on the other side), doom missiles hit, :h: web throw, :h: web throw, Maximum Spider.
    This combo does 741,900 for 2 bars (including the CC). If you do the up-forward web zip too early then you might accidentally crossup of miss completely. If you do it too late then the combo will drop. I got it to work on Morrigan, Wesker, and Zero. I couldn't get it very consistently though.

    I know this isn't exactly exclusive to spider-man, but I think it's worth mentioning because it really helps spidey's rush down and makes him more scary to deal with in the corner. I'm talking about zipping in/airdashing in with a jump normal, and then dashing in after the opponent push blocks to get an untechable grab. With different assists spidey can convert ground throws into combos. Off the top of my head, I think a lot of beam assists work except for disruptor, vajra works, Hidden Missiles of course works, Rising Fang assist works, probably log trap, and there are probably more. Obviously the timing is different for each though.

    One last thing, I think TK L web swing is pretty good tech because it is a much faster overhead than doing an up foward web zip and I don't think you need to be in the corner to use it. You would need a lock down assist though.
    Post edited by DeskLampTV on
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 968
    I am sure that Mags can keep Spidey safe with shockwave DHC to MS as long as it's not cornered, which Mags can easily work around. Mags can also combo off sting like with ryuuenjin and shadow blade. With that team (with missiles of course), you get a pretty decent THC, CC combo to sting (bite?), UWT guard break, strong start of the round option select with Mags and safe DHC to Spidey in exchange for weak TAC (unless you finish off with sting assist then TAC to Doom), Spidey with missiles neutral and a weak XF2 character.

    As for tk swings, I was never a fan. It's pretty decent for fuzzies though, also after landing from a jump attack (a bit hard to time).

    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • Brightside6382Brightside6382 It can't be helped Joined: Posts: 950
    Raoh wrote: »
    I am sure that Mags can keep Spidey safe with shockwave DHC to MS as long as it's not cornered, which Mags can easily work around. Mags can also combo off sting like with ryuuenjin and shadow blade. With that team (with missiles of course), you get a pretty decent THC, CC combo to sting (bite?), UWT guard break, strong start of the round option select with Mags and safe DHC to Spidey in exchange for weak TAC (unless you finish off with sting assist then TAC to Doom), Spidey with missiles neutral and a weak XF2 character.

    As for tk swings, I was never a fan. It's pretty decent for fuzzies though, also after landing from a jump attack (a bit hard to time).

    Shockwave -> MS is not safe. If the opponent chicken blocks and mashes pushblocks they won't be pushed back with shockwaves but only block 2 or 3 of them. Spiderman then dies. If you want to run Mag/Doom then Spiderman/Mag/Doom is the best order you could run. Pretty much your entire gameplan would just be hit with spiderman -> piss easy infinite. Guard break second char use x-factor to guarantee kill in the corner with spiderman. Switch back to mag guard break and spend all meter killing 3rd char. By running mag on point you lose the ability to infinite off any random hit and you can't guarantee 2 successive guard breaks due to meter issues.

    As far as spidermans "tech" he honestly has enough to be an end game character at this point. He's pretty much shaping up to be MvC2's IM who can in brain dead fashion kill an entire team off a single hit. The problem is though like IM he can't fucking hit anyone. If you guys honestly want to take this character farther you need to focus on finding reliable mid-screen mixups. Currently spidermans options for opening people up mid screen involve, spiderstings, baiting pushblocks, slow left/right overheads with jumping S, and running away/hoping to punish a mistake. His air to air is god like but players won't keep jumping into your normals forever (they stopped running into mine).
  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    While I do think that having mags on point and spidey second isn't that bad, I don't think that is the best way to order the team. If you are going to have spidey second than you aren't using him to his full potential and Spider-Man doesn't do that much to help Magneto as an assist. Basically what I'm trying to say is that having magneto first means that you aren't using an optimized spidey team since he isn't in his best spot and you aren't running an optimized Magneto team because Spider-man's assists aren't that great. Also, if magneto is in trouble then he can't safely hard tag out or DHC, unless you take a risk and do Magnetic Tempest hoping the opponent jumps and then do UWT. I agree with what Brightside said about the team's gameplan, just that you don't need to TAC into magneto, you can use one of spidey's various mixups and hard tag into magneto depending on how the combo ends.
    @Raoh, I'll be honest, I don't think that tk web swings are that great or useful, and I haven't actually used them in matches, but in theory I think they can be a powerful tool with a good lockdown assist like dark hole. What you said reminded me of something. A while ago Kookymanus told me about zipping down forward from the air, doing a jump normal (preferably j.:h:) and cancelling into :l: web swing before you hit the ground. Doing an air web swing like that would make it a overhead and keep some of Spider-man's momentum if the opponent pushblocks the j.:h:. I think it's a pretty decent option for trying to open up an opponent from midscreen or at least keep pressure on them tbh.
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 968
    edited April 2013
    I actually don't recommend running Mag/Spi/Doom as I'm running Spi/Mag/Doom as my fun team, but just pointed out decent stuff about it (like if your Spidey's bleeding). As for the safe tag, I know what you mean but if you do either MS or UWT DHC with some decent spacing(3/4-full) ater shockwave, which Mags can reasonably do, you can make it relatively safe. Just do the DHC without any delay (super, super). The Mag/Spi flow chart is doesn't have much difference - you instead do XF first then, infinites on incoming second char which can be reset with fake TAC bait or double TACed. With Mags+missiles first, you get an easier chance to open people up too. In the end though, the idea is to open up some possible team composition.

    As for midscreen stuff, I have to agree with Spidey's difficulty to open people up. I think this can only be remedied with assists which can either push back (Vergil, Storm), do lockdown or negate pushblocks for fuzzies (Ammy, Tatsu). You can pick off mid screen zip jump overs (M/H) by calling assists as soon as you can press a normal. You get a cross up + assist call which can be confirmed off on hit and if your opponent mashes out, you can still pick off if your assist has plenty of active frames (plasma beam, black hole).
    Post edited by Raoh on
    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    Tk web swing is surprisingly good. People should use it more. Once you understand the motion its very strong against normal to larger characters. Also Spidey has solo guard breaks and reliable sj air throw and hit confirms. I also had a video with assists that helped Spideys ground throw game but I decided against it. Other tech I have or been trying to perfect/understand include unblockable ultimate web throws and a reliable way to combo (add to the combo counter) ultimate web throw for unscaled damage at the end of a combo which surprisingly resets hit stun as well.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    Raoh wrote: »
    I actually don't recommend running Mag/Spi/Doom as I'm running Spi/Mag/Doom as my fun team, but just pointed out decent stuff about it (like if your Spidey's bleeding). As for the safe tag, I know what you mean but if you do either MS or UWT DHC with some decent spacing(3/4-full) ater shockwace, which Mags can reasonably do, you can make it relatively safe. Just do the DHC without any delay (super, super). Their flow chart is quite the same but instead you XF first then do infinites second which can be reset fake TAC baited or double TACed. With Mags+missiles first, you get an easier chance to open people up too. In the end though, the idea is to open up some possible team composition.

    As for midscreen stuff, I have to agree with Spidey's difficulty to open people up. I think this can only be remedied with assists which can either push back (Vergil, Storm), do lockdown or negate pushblocks for fuzzies (Ammy, Tatsu). You can pick off mid screen zip jump overs (M/H) by calling assists as soon as you can press a normal. You get a cross up + assist call which can be confirmed off on hit and if you opponent mashes out, you can still pick off if your assist has plenty of active frames (plasma beam, black hole).
    Sorry about the misunderstanding, your comment just made it seem like you prefer Mags/Spidey/Doom. Honestly, I never really played around with getting DHCing into spider-man with Mags so I just went off of what Brightside said. I always thought that UWT would be better for safely DHCing in because it doesn't chase the opponent the way MS does.
    I'm going to have to try doing s.:h: + disruptor xx up-forward web zip. EMD is really fast so I wouldn't as vulnerable to happy birthday's (unless the opponent X-factors). Although it doesn't have as much hitstun as plasma beam, I might be able to hit them with the backwards hitbox of j.:h: and cancel into :l: spider-sting. If not, then at least it will put me in a better position where I can air grab them or dash under them for another crossup.
    xero15 wrote: »
    Tk web swing is surprisingly good. People should use it more. Once you understand the motion its very strong against normal to larger characters. Also Spidey has solo guard breaks and reliable sj air throw and hit confirms. I also had a video with assists that helped Spideys ground throw game but I decided against it. Other tech I have or been trying to perfect/understand include unblockable ultimate web throws and a reliable way to combo (add to the combo counter) ultimate web throw for unscaled damage at the end of a combo which surprisingly resets hit stun as well.
    I don't tk web swing would be that effective for Spidey/Mag/Doom though because there aren't any lockdown assists and EMD has a tiny amount of blockstun compared to other beams. Actually, now that I think about it, I do catch the opponent just sitting there blocking the missiles when they are coming down.
    Is the solo guard break that you are talking something along the lines of zipping down when they are incoming, making them block a j.:m:, jumping back up and grabbing them?
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    That's one variant of it yes. I use j:l: myself. As for to web swing you're thinking to linear. You can just as easily command dash up then do it or just put them in stun then buffer it after the attack. Its not that slow really and its a lot faster than spider sting since you're going right into the overhead. Only reason I assume its been overlooked this long is because many people don't like practicing motions. Hell people still complain about about web swings motion change. If I had to put it against others is say its roughly the same speed of maybe Spencer's if you fully control the motion. Keyword being roughly.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 968
    edited April 2013
    Hmmm, I got some new stuff just now (not sure if anyone has done it though but it's new to me at least). But it depends on the assist and the camera placing midscreen. It's a bit hard to explain in detail and I want to sandbag it for a bit at least videowise. You can try it yourself with different beam assists, I just tested with triple arrow and plasma beam. Just do c.:l: c.:m: c.:h:+assist xx ground zip mid screen. It's quite weird and you'll see what I mean when you try it.

    I put the dummy on midscreen, crouch with high and low blocking (I was using nova). With triple arrow, if the opponent is midscreen but near the camera corner, the result of the ground zip+j.:h:/:s: is a super low crossup overhead but if he's a bit far from the camera corner, you get the annoying whiff (still working to confirm with arrows). With plasma beam however, it works a bit differently because of Doom's longer start up compared to Hawkeye's.

    If you do the same (plasma beam assist and zip) near the camera end, you won't get a crossup but you will get a super low overhead on the same side instead. If you don't press anything after the zip, you land relatively quick and can do something like a tri-jump whiff low attack. If you press zip+j.:m:, you will get a quick overhead hit (not sure if crossup), cross the opponent up and the beam will be able to pick off from the jM hit to continue the combo.

    Still experimenting on it from off the camera end and mid camera screen. Hope you understand what I posted.

    Tldr:c.:l: c.:m: c.:h:+assist (beam assist) xx ground zip mid screen, end cam view vs mid cam view, mid sized chars (Nova atm)
    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • AcidicEnemaAcidicEnema Joined: Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 2013
    Problem with this sequence is that if you get push blocked before the standing zip, it messes the set up and spidey will end up way too high (geometry hates standing zip)

    Xero: what strength do you recommend using for tk swing?
    "Studio-produced hetero porn is just a joke. Either the men are actually trying to steal screen time from the actress, or the cameraman is trying to give the actor a colonoscopy." - Taito
  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    xero15 wrote: »
    That's one variant of it yes. I use j:l: myself. As for to web swing you're thinking to linear. You can just as easily command dash up then do it or just put them in stun then buffer it after the attack. Its not that slow really and its a lot faster than spider sting since you're going right into the overhead. Only reason I assume its been overlooked this long is because many people don't like practicing motions. Hell people still complain about about web swings motion change. If I had to put it against others is say its roughly the same speed of maybe Spencer's if you fully control the motion. Keyword being roughly.
    You're probably right, its just that I feel like I could be hit on the start up if I just dash up and do the tk web swing. Also, it seems like it would be safer and easier if you had a lockdown assist so you could take your time with it. Who knows, maybe tk web swing will kinda be like web throw combos, where they were overlooked at first because people thought it would be too hard to confirm into but they are actually very powerful and not that hard. I've been working on starting combos with web throws instead of web swings, but I still have the muscle memory of cr.LMH xx web swing so I still need to think about what I am doing.
    Raoh wrote: »
    Hmmm, I got some new stuff just now (not sure if anyone has done it though but it's new to me at least). But it depends on the assist and the camera placing midscreen. It's a bit hard to explain in detail and I want to sandbag it for a bit at least videowise. You can try it yourself with different beam assists, I just tested with triple arrow and plasma beam. Just do c.:l: c.:m: c.:h:+assist xx ground zip mid screen. It's quite weird and you'll see what I mean when you try it.

    I put the dummy on midscreen, crouch with high and low blocking (I was using nova). With triple arrow, if the opponent is midscreen but near the camera corner, the result of the ground zip+j.:h:/:s: is a super low crossup overhead but if he's a bit far from the camera corner, you get the annoying whiff (still working to confirm with arrows). With plasma beam however, it works a bit differently because of Doom's longer start up compared to Hawkeye's.

    If you do the same (plasma beam assist and zip) near the camera end, you won't get a crossup but you will get a super low overhead on the same side instead. If you don't press anything after the zip, you land relatively quick and can do something like a tri-jump whiff low attack. If you press zip+j.:m:, you will get a quick overhead hit (not sure if crossup), cross the opponent up and the beam will be able to pick off from the jM hit to continue the combo.

    Still experimenting on it from off the camera end and mid camera screen. Hope you understand what I posted.

    Tldr:c.:l: c.:m: c.:h:+assist (beam assist) xx ground zip mid screen, end cam view vs mid cam view, mid sized chars (Nova atm)
    Wait, just so I understand this, are you doing the jump normal so that you keep your momentum, or do you wait until Spider-man starts falling? The latter is the way I pictured it when you first mentioned it.
    Problem with this sequence is that if you get push blocked before the standing zip, it messes the set up and spidey will end up way too high (geometry hates standing zip)

    Xero: what strength do you recommend using for tk swing?
    I know I'm not xero, but :l: web swing is probably the best strength. It's the fastest and its the easiest to confirm off of (imo). I think since :l: web swing is the fastest, you can do tk :l: web swing lower than :m: and :h:. I'm not entirely sure if that last part is true though, I haven't tested it out.
  • AcidicEnemaAcidicEnema Joined: Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I know light is fastest, but it's significant harder to do then m and h plus you need to be point blank to hit with it.
    "Studio-produced hetero porn is just a joke. Either the men are actually trying to steal screen time from the actress, or the cameraman is trying to give the actor a colonoscopy." - Taito
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 968
    Problem with this sequence is that if you get push blocked before the standing zip, it messes the set up and spidey will end up way too high (geometry hates standing zip)
    If they pushblock, they just nullify the crossup, but you'll get a better angle for the overhead and assist hit confirm.

    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • AcidicEnemaAcidicEnema Joined: Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Raoh wrote: »
    Problem with this sequence is that if you get push blocked before the standing zip, it messes the set up and spidey will end up way too high (geometry hates standing zip)
    If they pushblock, they just nullify the crossup, but you'll get a better angle for the overhead and assist hit confirm.

    I guess i need to wait for that video. I've been doing a similar set up for awhile (i actually like strange best for it), but getting pushed blocked for mine means that the zip bring spidey too high up, and the opponent has the time to chicken block whatever comes next.
    "Studio-produced hetero porn is just a joke. Either the men are actually trying to steal screen time from the actress, or the cameraman is trying to give the actor a colonoscopy." - Taito
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 968
    edited April 2013
    I guess i need to wait for that video. I've been doing a similar set up for awhile (i actually like strange best for it), but getting pushed blocked for mine means that the zip bring spidey too high up, and the opponent has the time to chicken block whatever comes next.
    You have to take note of the camera view. To make it easier to understand, try it on training mode; the camera view end is when you do the setup as soon as the "fight" comes out. You and your opponent will be midscreen but the camera end is near his side. If you jump over the opponent first before doing the setup, that will be the camera mid view. You will get different results depending on the assists and camera views. It may not work as effectively with bolts since the first part of it can be crouched under. I have only tested with triple arrows and plasma since they belong to my mains.

    The camera end view causes a corner effect but since you're still midscreen, you get crossups depending on how your assist's startup interacts with the camera view. This is one reason why I tested on both plasma and triple arrow. For plasma, Doom's late entrance and nature of appearing behind the point char removes the cross up ability of j.:h:/:s:, unlike triple arrow which comes out relatively faster. The camera seems to force itself to capture all the characters in the screen which is why this setup can be done. Hope that clears up some confusion.
    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    I know light is fastest, but it's significant harder to do then m and h plus you need to be point blank to hit with it.
    For me at least, light really isn't that much harder than m and h, if harder at all. I mean, if you can do it for m and h you can do the light version. Also, for overheads, I think the faster the better, even of you need to be a little bit closer. Plus, for medium at least, I didn't check heavy, but I thought it medium slightly more difficult/weird to confirm off of.
  • AcidicEnemaAcidicEnema Joined: Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 2013
    Raoh: I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about, but this is the problem that I was talking about- when your c.H is push blocked, Spidey gets pushed far back, so two things happen to his standing zip:

    1. It takes longer for the zip line to touch the camera corner
    2. The zipline hits the corner at a higher spot, so Spidey flies a lot higher

    The combined effect is that the time spidey reaches the opponent, he's recovered from the assist block stun and can just chicken block whatever Spidey does next.

    Give this a shot and let me know what you think about it. I think it does better against push blocks (i'm trying it now with Arthur daggers)

    J.H/S (off a zip or air dash) + call Assist> dash in> stand zip

    Similar to c. H.+assist xx ground zip, except you get to nullify any push blocks with a dash and keep Spidey close to camera corner. The assist keeps the dash safe.
    "Studio-produced hetero porn is just a joke. Either the men are actually trying to steal screen time from the actress, or the cameraman is trying to give the actor a colonoscopy." - Taito
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 968
    If they always push block on the last hit of the string, just call the assist earlier or mix it up with web ball. If they pushblock before web ball, you get a safe zip cancel covered with assist for continued pressure. As of what you mentioned, I've been doing that already but get mixed results with triple arrows; whiff crosses sometimes. It may be caused by the zoomed out camera view.

    For tk swings, I think it's better to just do sj IAD :s: instead. You get a longer combo on hit and you don't risk getting air grabbed if you miss the tk input by a few frames and get a whiffed swing. Though the range is a bit short, if the opponent doesn't pushblock your first jump attack, you can do the sj IAD :s: (or :h: for range) as soon as you land for something like a bootleg Nova, Mag, IM tri-jump pressure.
    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    I was using :l: since it's the easiest to confirm off and is fastest. The point of tk'ing over IAD is the ability to have a "ground" overhead. Obviously it works a lot better when you have lock down of some sort but being able to dash and do it as well is just as important. For a character who is all highs and very few lows this could at least help him more than his other overheads as everything else has something in between the overhead pretty much telegraphing its coming. It's not like he has fast startup on dash zip or spider sting
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    I know this probably won't contribute much to this thread, but after practicing for a day or two, I opened someone up by dashing in and doing a TK web swing earlier today. I gotta admit, it's easier/more useful than I thought it would be. Even though I only did it once, the guy I was playing was doing a pretty good job of blocking my overheads, so it's definitely a more solid mixup than Spidey's other overheads. Like xero already said, it's a good mixup because it seems like spider-man is on the ground until he actually hits the opponent. It works in kinda the same way that standing lows might open someone up. When the opponent sees that skull or morrigan is standing, they might not think that a low will be coming. TK web swing is the opposite though, when the opponent sees spider-man doing a ground dash, they might be expecting lows.
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 968
    Missiles or Plasma...

    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    That's some good shit, but you would be sacrificing more damage in combos if you had plasma beam. I think it depends on the other assist that you have. For example, I personally think that beam is better suited for my Spidey/Doom/Strider team because Vajra covers the vertical space anyway, but with Spidey/Mags/Doom I use missiles because Magneto can cover horizontally but not vertically with EM disruptor.

    For your team, if you have triple arrow then I think it would be better to have missiles. You would get a nice setup but you wouldnt have any assists for combo extension. On the other hand, you could use poison tip instead of triple arrow though. The only thing is, if Doom is in with hawkeye as the assist, poison tip isn't going to help him as much as triple arrow when getting in. You probably know better than me about hawkeye, but I would think that hidden missiles would be a better assist for him when zoning.
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 968
    My main assist are triple and missiles because of the oppressive Hawkeye + missiles synergy and my missile cross tech but because of this discovery, I'm leaning towards using beam. If I happen to switch to beam, I'd change to scattershot assist and look for combos using that instead. I'd also switch Doom and Hawk's placing so that I get TAC infinites and Doom with scattershot assist (better than Hawk+plasma imo).

    Plasma beam allows for overheads and overhead crossups. If your opponent starts to block the overhead by stand blocking, you can just wait for Spidey to hit his body and drop for a quick low or even a quick same sided overhead j.:l:, land to tk swing, all while he's getting fuzzied by the beam. With the right camera end distance, you can cross up with any input [j. (:l:/:m:/:h:/:s:)] after the zip drop cross up. Depending on where you hit the c.:h: hitbox, the camera end and the time you get pushblocked, you will get different results which are all in your favor because pressure and momentum is kept and hits can easily be confirmed by either :l: or c.:m:. Afaik, if your jump attacks are pushblocked (air dash + or zip +), you can still hit with the tip of c.:h: for the setup; I think there's also time to dash in for some timing change.
    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    DeskLampTV wrote: »
    I know this probably won't contribute much to this thread, but after practicing for a day or two, I opened someone up by dashing in and doing a TK web swing earlier today. I gotta admit, it's easier/more useful than I thought it would be. Even though I only did it once, the guy I was playing was doing a pretty good job of blocking my overheads, so it's definitely a more solid mixup than Spidey's other overheads. Like xero already said, it's a good mixup because it seems like spider-man is on the ground until he actually hits the opponent. It works in kinda the same way that standing lows might open someone up. When the opponent sees that skull or morrigan is standing, they might not think that a low will be coming. TK web swing is the opposite though, when the opponent sees spider-man doing a ground dash, they might be expecting lows.

    I told you :lol: I went and pulled the numbers last night. It's the second fastest overhead in the game if you learn to do it properly. Three frames slower than V. Joe's (13 frames) and four or five frames faster than the average overhead others have with the next fastest one being 21 frames (Spencer's overhead). That's already calculating the jump frames and the 12 frames of startup from web swing putting it at 16 frames.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    Raoh wrote: »
    My main assist are triple and missiles because of the oppressive Hawkeye + missiles synergy and my missile cross tech but because of this discovery, I'm leaning towards using beam. If I happen to switch to beam, I'd change to scattershot assist and look for combos using that instead. I'd also switch Doom and Hawk's placing so that I get TAC infinites and Doom with scattershot assist (better than Hawk+plasma imo).

    Plasma beam allows for overheads and overhead crossups. If your opponent starts to block the overhead by stand blocking, you can just wait for Spidey to hit his body and drop for a quick low or even a quick same sided overhead j.:l:, land to tk swing, all while he's getting fuzzied by the beam. With the right camera end distance, you can cross up with any input [j. (:l:/:m:/:h:/:s:)] after the zip drop cross up. Depending on where you hit the c.:h: hitbox, the camera end and the time you get pushblocked, you will get different results which are all in your favor because pressure and momentum is kept and hits can easily be confirmed by either :l: or c.:m:. Afaik, if your jump attacks are pushblocked (air dash + or zip +), you can still hit with the tip of c.:h: for the setup; I think there's also time to dash in for some timing change.
    I agree that Doom would be better second because you have access to his TAC infinites. Also, I think hawkeye would be a better anchor than Doom but you probably know more than me on that topic. The setup with plasma beam would be really nice though because plasma beam has a lot of active frames so it keeps them locked down for longer. I'm just wondering, have you tested the setup against a dummy that is set to advancing guard? It would interesting to see how the set up would deal with pushblocking. Like you said, it probably wouldn't stop your forward momentum long enough so that you can't still mix them up.

    xero15 wrote: »
    DeskLampTV wrote: »
    I know this probably won't contribute much to this thread, but after practicing for a day or two, I opened someone up by dashing in and doing a TK web swing earlier today. I gotta admit, it's easier/more useful than I thought it would be. Even though I only did it once, the guy I was playing was doing a pretty good job of blocking my overheads, so it's definitely a more solid mixup than Spidey's other overheads. Like xero already said, it's a good mixup because it seems like spider-man is on the ground until he actually hits the opponent. It works in kinda the same way that standing lows might open someone up. When the opponent sees that skull or morrigan is standing, they might not think that a low will be coming. TK web swing is the opposite though, when the opponent sees spider-man doing a ground dash, they might be expecting lows.

    I told you :lol: I went and pulled the numbers last night. It's the second fastest overhead in the game if you learn to do it properly. Three frames slower than V. Joe's (13 frames) and four or five frames faster than the average overhead others have with the next fastest one being 21 frames (Spencer's overhead). That's already calculating the jump frames and the 12 frames of startup from web swing putting it at 16 frames.
    Second fastest overhead in the game? Damn, that's faster than I thought. I think it could be especially useful in staredowns, where you can take the risk of calling an assist, making them block a couple cr.:l:, dash up, and do a jump cancelled :l: web swing for a full combo. It is still useful from midscreen when you are about a dash away and the opponent is grounded though, you don't need an assist there backing you up.

    Some other tech that I think we should be looking for (that Raoh mentioned in the original post) is superjump confirms. More specifically, superjump confirms from neutral superjumps. Reliable superjump confirms seems like a big part of spidey that is missing. When certain characters go to superjump height, it sometimes feels like all you can do is try to cross them up when they land or throw out some web throw and hope it hits them. The S.J. confirms that we already have now are really nice, its just that sometimes you might be too close to them horizontally, so you jump passed them in the middle of the combo. I think that neutral sj. confirms might require you to save your air dash and maybe web zip, and I think :h: web swing might be involved. Those are just ideas of what it might look like though.
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    Ummm sj:h: xx :h: web swing solves the neutral jump issue. Sj:h: delay j:s: j:m: xx web zip j:s: works when jumping towards the opponent. Sj confirms have been solved they just aren't as easy peasy as people want them to be but they are still reliable.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • AirborneAirborne The Mad Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,090
    Lol, pulling the numbers a.k.a. making someone whose trying to go to sleep at 4 a.m. look it up for you while you go to class.

    I wouldn't think of it as the second fastest overhead in the game, since it doesn't consider things suchs as tri-dashes and other various instant overheads (IAD j.:l: with Logan, Spidey, etc.). However, 16 frame startup is really freakin' fast, and proficient execution makes this thing look quick as hell when it's integrated into a fluid blockstring. I think I was breaking 830k for 1 bar using my team (Spidey/Dorm/Akuma) off of a TK'd :l: Web Swing, although I should be able to break 900k if I end the Dark Hole extension going into Spider Sting->web throw link->raw tag-> :h: Purification xx Chaotic Flame.

    In other words, TK Web Swing is pretty much the slowest "fast-as-hell" overhead that can still turn into hefty damage.
    Robo-mitsu: Wish I could ride a robo-tiger to work.
    Evil_Rahsaan: Airborne ur a mad scientist.
    XxDiana_PrinceXx: 6 years old shouldnt be playing sf4 its not suited for her, sorry!!! SSF4 is rated T for 13 and above. :nono:
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    Well considering all jump attacks are overheads then I wouldn't necessarily add those in the listing but technically you are right. I was more so grouping overheads together as being able to be done from a standing position but technically you do jump but all the same you get what the hell I was talking about.

    When compared to other characters with overheads, excluding jump attacks, it is the second fastest. Only thing about it is it whiffs on short people and requires execution.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • MilodonMilodon Joined: Posts: 3
    i don't know if this have been post before but when i was messing around in the lab with spidey and nova i noticed that when a character is into web ball capture state he is considered to be in the air, when i used web ball in a grounded opponent and called centurion rush assist the opponent ground bounced, maybe this can be usefull to extend combos with nova using web ball as assist in a similar way to spencer's wire grapple.
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    Unless they are standing nova always ground bounces. You can just time nova to hit after a web zip and get a web throw in since web ball is useless after long combos other than resets
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    I think he means Nova point with web ball as an assist. I still think that there would be too much HSD for web ball to help to extend combos like that though.

    I have an idea, but it is kind of useless and risky. When you start a combo with web ball, you generally get lower damage. So I was thinking, what if you could use the web ball to mix them up instead of comboing off of it? The mix up that I had in mind is cr.:l:/s.:l: after the web ball causing them to hit the ground, hopefully they decide to hold back so they roll backwards, plink dash forward to cross them up -> whatever the hell you want to do from there.
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    Generally speaking though. Why would you be comboing into web ball? That would mean you already got the hit and are now sacrificing guaranteed damage for a mixup. Now if it was during a block string and they tried to do something then I got ya.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    I didn't mean doing a web ball in a combo, I mean like when you sometimes get a random web ball to hit when you toss them around in the neutral. Otherwise it would just be throwing an opportunity away for a mixup that probably won't work more than once.
Sign In or Register to comment.