Guilty Gear Xrd -REVELATOR- one of life's gilty pleasures

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  • LockMLockM Joined: Posts: 2,140
    edited March 14
    Skiegh wrote: »
    LockM wrote: »
    Any people playing Johnny? I'm doing his advanced trial 8 and i'm having some issues it seems.
    2D xx mist finer stance(mfs), dash xx treasure hunt super

    So you can input it as:
    632D14K 66S

    No matter how fast or slow i'm doing this the super never comes out when i input the 2D during the 63214. if i omit the 2D i get the super no problem with the MFS.
    Its the hitfreeze from the 2D that fucks things up i think, i input the dash and sometimes that doesn't even come out because i'm way too fast. I slow it down and super won't come out etc. Is there some special timing?

    @LockM

    I don't play Johnny, but I did do all of his trials. The sample inputs, while consistent if you have the ability, I found it immensely easier to omit doing the 646 type of dash, in favor of just doing a 66 at the end.

    Anyway, in regards to timing it out, this is essentially how it went for me to get it down to a relative consistency...

    - Input 5k, immediately 2D, as the input buffer will cause the 2D to come out after the 5K is done.
    - Return to neutral, and use the duration until the first hit of Johnny's 2D to do the half circle back. (How quickly you do the half circle doesn't really matter, you can do it as slow as you want, so long as you're done by the time 2D hits. Personally, I found going at the perfect pace where 2D hits just I'm done with the half circle to be the most consistent, as it prolongs the length of the input buffer for the dashes.)
    - Once it connects hit P (or whatever stance button is easiest for you), I would say I do the world's most minor of pauses here before inputting 66S. The important thing is you need to make sure he actually gets into stance, otherwise the dash won't come out. The S button needs to be pressed the second the dash starts, which should be, provided you let him get into stance, the moment you input the second forward input.

    You'll know you're doing it right because you'll hear Johnny's little grunt from his dash when in stance. Something which may end up happening is miss-timing the "S" input, you might end up pressing it while in neutral when doing the second forward or something akin to that. To decipher that, use the actual stick input display and watch that while doing the combo. You want to be as precise as possible. For practice, I suggest doing 2D into stance into dash just keep doing that for a bit until you get the timing down.

    I found going slower with this combo to be the more consistent method. While I am not versed on the how-tos of GG's specific version of an input buffer, but from my experimentations, any new input towards a motion will refresh the time the "super" input is stored into the buffer by a small degree. Specifically I noticed when doing this lightning fast, that you have to do it just like that -- insanely fast and precise. I also found that doing it too fast meant the super input might end up being lost due to time lost waiting for the 2D to finish and the game starts registering your absence of motion as you trying to do something else and discards the buffer.

    Hope this is somewhat helpful.

    Thanks for the writeup! You brought up a few points that were hindering me exactly like you described, namely the timing. I stopped doing 2D as a part of the motion , it just wasn't working out. I found timing the 63214 with the 2D annoying and still have the time to do 66S, i'm constantly too slow with the dashes. Instead of doing that i changed my inputs based on a friends suggestion:

    2D, 63214 6P 6S

    I'm glad that in games like GG and KOF there are multiple ways to input certain buffers from specials and whatnot, 1 way might not work out and i cna still try other ways.
    It was definitely helpfull!.
    SFV: Juri, Cammy
    GGREV: Millia
    USFIV: Yun, Cody, Guy




  • MajormelisThereMajormelisThere no labels Joined: Posts: 488
    finally copped Revelator (even though rev 2 is coming out sometime soon) and I'm really in love with it. I've only played GGX and ACR+, but I think i was pretty meh at those games. So far I've been only playing chipp because he's the only character i feel comfortable with playing on pad, also got some wins online too but tbh I don't think I really learned anything out of them.

    got a question though, how does danger time exactly work? I've heard since -sign- that it happens on a random chance clash, but in rev I think every clash i got in it just happens. Was this a change or something?

    Skullgirls: Parasoul, Cerebella
    JOJO HFTF: Polnareff, Iggy, jotaro
    Umvc3: poor spider-man, poor ryu, ok sentinel
  • ShahenzanShahenzan to burn beasts Joined: Posts: 176
    Danger time is still random on clashes, if you're seeing it often you just have very bad (good?) luck.

    CFN - Ninebreaker
    PSN - Shahenzan

    Now playing - SFV / Xrd Rev / Melty Blood
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 19,647
    I can't believe Revelator is still 44 dollars on PS3.
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 10,726
    I can't believe Revelator is still 44 dollars on PS3.

    it's been on sale for 25 dollars or less for like 3 out of the last 5 months in some form cumulatively.
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 19,647
    Veserius wrote: »
    I can't believe Revelator is still 44 dollars on PS3.

    it's been on sale for 25 dollars or less for like 3 out of the last 5 months in some form cumulatively.
    I went to pick it up physically and game stop said 44 fucking dollars. I was stunned.
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,916
    Third Rev 2 loketest starts tonight
    Xrd: Axl || UMvC3: Magneto/Dante/Frank West
    Give me attention: @ LaziestNameEver
    PSN: Laziest_ID_Ever (I don't really play online)
    "3) LIMITLESS (myself) --Those of you who have played me, will agree with this.. By far the most aggressive safe/style Wolverine." - Limitless, 3rd best Wolvie player in the world
  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,226
    edited March 15
    This is the test where they roll a lot of shit back. I just know it ;)
    Opinions are like bedsheets: you only change them if it helps you get laid.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 6,582
    Any info about patchnotes yet?
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • Sephiroth73003Sephiroth73003 Joined: Posts: 4,222
    edited March 16
    This is the test where they roll a lot of shit back. I just know it ;)

    This is the one where they say jam has 3HS which is a +6 on block unthrowable move that looks like it uses 2 palms, you get to execute her cards with D button, and MAX Dragon card wallsticks ... right ... right?????!?!?!!?!?!?!
    SF3: Makoto and Ken
  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,226
    This is the test where they roll a lot of shit back. I just know it ;)

    This is the one where they say jam has 3HS which is a +6 on block unthrowable move that looks like it uses 2 palms, you get to execute her cards with D button, and MAX Dragon card wallsticks ... right ... right?????!?!?!!?!?!?!

    You forgot to mention the hitbox that takes up the entire screen lol. Nah but seriously I do think she needs the old 6H back
    Opinions are like bedsheets: you only change them if it helps you get laid.
  • Sephiroth73003Sephiroth73003 Joined: Posts: 4,222
    edited March 16
    This is the test where they roll a lot of shit back. I just know it ;)

    This is the one where they say jam has 3HS which is a +6 on block unthrowable move that looks like it uses 2 palms, you get to execute her cards with D button, and MAX Dragon card wallsticks ... right ... right?????!?!?!!?!?!?!

    You forgot to mention the hitbox that takes up the entire screen lol. Nah but seriously I do think she needs the old 6H back

    Legit had like 1/3rd screen range and was level 6 so on CH you could dash into a followup at like half screen. I'm just asking for stuff that previously existed, not even making shit up. Legit though I don't get why Leo gets unthrowable moves but jam who has less range doesn't. An unthrowable move would really make a lot of sense for the character since she is supposed to be an upclose frame trap character ... that just doesn't work super well in GG when you have 1f invincible throws.

    Also she used to have gross tech traps with being able to combo from her air throw low to the ground in the corner and tech into mash buttons not being a viable tactic in older GG's. She needs to be made to take advantage of the Xrd mechanics better.
    SF3: Makoto and Ken
  • PsaroPsaro Joined: Posts: 55
    edited March 16
    Seems like the early impressions from the loketest are that most characters are barely/not changed at all from the second loketest. Seems to suggest we're getting pretty close to the finished product.
  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,226
    Psaro wrote: »
    Seems like the early impressions from the loketest are that most characters are barely/not changed at all from the second loketest. Seems to suggest we're getting pretty close to the finished product.

    Kof14 is looking pretty attractive right now
    Opinions are like bedsheets: you only change them if it helps you get laid.
  • WeeabooWeeaboo The Dream is dead. . . Joined: Posts: 1,288
    With the stuff they gave Slayer, I'm content.
  • risemixrisemix Joined: Posts: 902
    edited March 16
    They gave Haehyun 2k->2H on standing, that is a MASSIVE change lol
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,916
    Psaro wrote: »
    Seems like the early impressions from the loketest are that most characters are barely/not changed at all from the second loketest. Seems to suggest we're getting pretty close to the finished product.

    Kof14 is looking pretty attractive right now
    Well it seems like a good game, so it should. The idea that Xrd is going to the gutter is a stupid one though lol. But feel free to leave I guess.
    Xrd: Axl || UMvC3: Magneto/Dante/Frank West
    Give me attention: @ LaziestNameEver
    PSN: Laziest_ID_Ever (I don't really play online)
    "3) LIMITLESS (myself) --Those of you who have played me, will agree with this.. By far the most aggressive safe/style Wolverine." - Limitless, 3rd best Wolvie player in the world
  • PsaroPsaro Joined: Posts: 55
    Rev2 will be out digitally in US on May 26.
  • Raging_ZoroarkRaging_Zoroark Disgraceful! Joined: Posts: 1,253
    The potential changes are really THAT bad?
    Steam: Razor
    3DS FC: 0576-4330-3314
    NNID: Featther
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 6,582
    Psaro wrote: »
    Rev2 will be out digitally in US on May 26.

    Nothing about PC?
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • PsaroPsaro Joined: Posts: 55
    edited March 16
    Aksys made the announcement and they don't publish PC, so as of yet no word on that front. All I know is that the game will be available on that date for PS3 and PS4 digitally, with the PS4 getting a standalone version for people who don't own Rev.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 6,582
    Doesn't ArcSys use their translation for the English version though? If that's the case they shouldn't be too far behind.
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,916
    The potential changes are really THAT bad?
    No, people are overreacting.

    Not that there aren't questionable changes. May players are sad, Leo players are confused, Bedman players are sad and confused, etc. But the game will still be fine.
    Xrd: Axl || UMvC3: Magneto/Dante/Frank West
    Give me attention: @ LaziestNameEver
    PSN: Laziest_ID_Ever (I don't really play online)
    "3) LIMITLESS (myself) --Those of you who have played me, will agree with this.. By far the most aggressive safe/style Wolverine." - Limitless, 3rd best Wolvie player in the world
  • LockMLockM Joined: Posts: 2,140
    It surely has been asked before and i'm 80% sure that the balance changes won't be "free" but i still have to ask.
    Will rev 2 split the playerpool again, i know rev 2 is a DLC upgrade including characters, stages, story etc. The balance changes are also locked behind the DLC paywall?
    SFV: Juri, Cammy
    GGREV: Millia
    USFIV: Yun, Cody, Guy




  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,226
    edited March 17
    Sure, the game will be "fine" (though maybe it will lose some players), but a significant portion of the cast is going to be less interesting now (and weaker). If you want a change that really sums up this patch, then consider that, after 15 years, ASW randomly decided that Sol 5k should no longer be 3f
    Post edited by drunkards_walk on
    Opinions are like bedsheets: you only change them if it helps you get laid.
  • risemixrisemix Joined: Posts: 902
    time to find a bunch of ways to get into 2k on counterhit and shit
  • Sephiroth73003Sephiroth73003 Joined: Posts: 4,222
    Sure, the game will be "fine" (though maybe it will lose some players), but a significant portion of the cast is going to be less interesting now (and weaker). If you want a change that really sums up this patch, then consider that, after 15 years, ASW randomly decided that Sol 5k should no longer be 3f

    Yeah there was a nerf to Johnny and Elphelt that made some sense but almost every other nerf still doesn't make much sense.

    I figured they were trying to push people to the A/A+ tier. Given they haven't been buffing the low tier very much I think they are trying to nerf the A tier a bit also to try and squeeze everyone in A+/B tier rather than S through C. Like nerfs to Sol & Leo don't make sense unless you consider the shit that got nerfed raped characters like Dizzy, Jam, and a few B- tier characters horribly. Most of the cast got around it fine though. It's kinda a bad balance philosophy imo. These low tier characters can't deal with it because their tool set is obviously lacking ... don't improve ... nerf because improving might require doing a new animation or two.
    SF3: Makoto and Ken
  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,226
    edited March 17
    Sure, the game will be "fine" (though maybe it will lose some players), but a significant portion of the cast is going to be less interesting now (and weaker). If you want a change that really sums up this patch, then consider that, after 15 years, ASW randomly decided that Sol 5k should no longer be 3f

    Yeah there was a nerf to Johnny and Elphelt that made some sense but almost every other nerf still doesn't make much sense.

    I figured they were trying to push people to the A/A+ tier. Given they haven't been buffing the low tier very much I think they are trying to nerf the A tier a bit also to try and squeeze everyone in A+/B tier rather than S through C. Like nerfs to Sol & Leo don't make sense unless you consider the shit that got nerfed raped characters like Dizzy, Jam, and a few B- tier characters horribly. Most of the cast got around it fine though. It's kinda a bad balance philosophy imo. These low tier characters can't deal with it because their tool set is obviously lacking ... don't improve ... nerf because improving might require doing a new animation or two.

    Yeah the most frustrating part of all this is that Rev1 is in a really, really good spot balance-wise. They were just a few minor nerfs to some top-tiers and few buffs to low-tiers away from having an extremely balanced game. Instead, they just went ham and did a bunch of dumb shit, so who knows how the balance is going to shape up now (a smart bet would be that Ky is an easy top-tier though).

    I think Millia needed a slight adjustment (fix her Rose Super and maybe adjust hitboxes on j.P/5P; instead they changed up her whole game), same can be said for Elphelt (she doesn't need looping unblockables, but they take away her instant j.S too?). Johnny 5K nerf makes sense, but he gets his unblockables back to make up for it. Bedman is another character in need of a slight adjustment, maybe lower his health/damage some, instead he got completely destroyed (of all the characters he undoubtedly got hit hardest). Zato and May changes make you say 'wtf', they both are going to be much weaker in Rev2. Jam didn't really get anything she needs, Potemkin only gets his crouching hurtbox lowered, but none of the other things people have been asking for for a year now. IMO the only character who was really in need of an overhaul because he obviously wasn't playing the way developers intended (he's a character who would gradually creep up tier lists as time goes on) was Raven. Idk man, we're beating a dead horse at this point, but I really think they fucked this game up with a lot of these moves; as I said before, a vast majority of the cast is a lot weaker/less interesting now. It's just changes for the sake of saying "look, we have a new game here".
    Opinions are like bedsheets: you only change them if it helps you get laid.
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,741
    I think the problem is that they're Blizzarding and making shit new for the sake of being new. There are some really cool changes! I like most of what they're doing to Raven by having Excitement be easier to build in such a way that promotes alternative combos and playstyles (he was one of the most balanced characters though, but so long as this is a sidegrade I'm fine with it). Other changes just seem like they're making changes so they have something to sell for $20.
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 10,726
    LockM wrote: »
    It surely has been asked before and i'm 80% sure that the balance changes won't be "free" but i still have to ask.
    Will rev 2 split the playerpool again, i know rev 2 is a DLC upgrade including characters, stages, story etc. The balance changes are also locked behind the DLC paywall?

    anyone who doesn't get rev2 wasn't worth playing against, so the point is kinda moot.

    two characters+story mode expansion+new trials/missions is worth 20 bucks to me, regardless of what else is included.

    if we get a 3rd character at some point I won't be surprised either.
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 6,582
    edited March 17
    They should raise the pricetag for the update to 150$ so that only the true worthy players that intend to spend thousands of hours on it will play it.
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 10,726
    They should reduce the price to $0 because continuing to develop the game costs nothing.
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 6,582
    I guess 80$ from 10 people gives more money to devs than 45$ from 100 people.
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,916
    edited March 17
    The vast majority of questionable changes happened only happened to Zato, Bedman, Leo, and May. Zato and Bedman are still gonna be strong, Leo will still struggle but isn't utterly hopeless (and never was). May IDK.

    You can argue that characters like Ram and Pot weren't changed enough but it's hard to balance them. Buffs are buffs in the end.

    But whatever, if people wanna talk about how the sky is falling then who am I to say otherwise? I'm just a simple man trying to make his annual tribute to ArcSys.
    Xrd: Axl || UMvC3: Magneto/Dante/Frank West
    Give me attention: @ LaziestNameEver
    PSN: Laziest_ID_Ever (I don't really play online)
    "3) LIMITLESS (myself) --Those of you who have played me, will agree with this.. By far the most aggressive safe/style Wolverine." - Limitless, 3rd best Wolvie player in the world
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,741
    I guess 80$ from 10 people gives more money to devs than 45$ from 100 people.

    And you have access to their demand curve? Frankly I'm doubtful of the people who said they'd buy the game, because it seems to be from the same "no baiken no buyken? Oh, I mean no Bridget go fuck yourself" squad.
    The vast majority of questionable changes happened only happened to Zato, Bedman, Leo, and May. Zato and Bedman are still gonna be strong, Leo will still struggle but isn't utterly hopeless (and never was). May IDK.

    You can argue that characters like Ram and Pot weren't changed enough but it's hard to balance them. Buffs are buffs in the end.

    But whatever, if people wanna talk about how the sky is falling then who am I to say otherwise? I'm just a simple man trying to make his annual tribute to ArcSys.

    The worst part is that it seems that Leo was in a really good place.
  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,226
    edited March 17
    I don't think May is going to be bad. To me the ensenga change was whatever, she still has ways to get a knockdown, so it's more of a damage normalization than anything (or more specifically, she can't get damage + corner carry + KD). What bothers me about her is that they changed the properties of her inertia cancel (imo the most fun aspect of the character) so that, based off what I'm hearing, a lot of her old mixup may not work. Essentially they made the cancel easier, but the cost is that it is going to be worse. I can't tell you how much I hate this type of balance. I spent a lot of time training in order to master the cancel, and my reward for doing so is now nil.

    Really though the point was never that she is going to be worse, it's that they are messing with a character for no reason. Is May a strong character? Absolutely. Is she so strong that she warrants going in and messing with core aspects of her gameplan? No, and it's worrying that they feel the need to do that.
    Opinions are like bedsheets: you only change them if it helps you get laid.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 6,582
    Muttonman wrote: »
    I guess 80$ from 10 people gives more money to devs than 45$ from 100 people.

    And you have access to their demand curve? Frankly I'm doubtful of the people who said they'd buy the game, because it seems to be from the same "no baiken no buyken? Oh, I mean no Bridget go fuck yourself" squad.

    There may be people who bought Rev but are on the fence about Rev2 because they don't know if the new characters are worth it. If they could play against them they might get interested in them and end up buying the expansion.
    Lack of compatibility between versions is a bitch and ASW is probably the last FG developer who is doing that.
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 10,726
    French Bread?

    Tecmo?
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,741
    Muttonman wrote: »
    I guess 80$ from 10 people gives more money to devs than 45$ from 100 people.

    And you have access to their demand curve? Frankly I'm doubtful of the people who said they'd buy the game, because it seems to be from the same "no baiken no buyken? Oh, I mean no Bridget go fuck yourself" squad.

    There may be people who bought Rev but are on the fence about Rev2 because they don't know if the new characters are worth it. If they could play against them they might get interested in them and end up buying the expansion.
    Lack of compatibility between versions is a bitch and ASW is probably the last FG developer who is doing that.

    There could be a sizable amount! There could also be alien squids inside the moon!
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,916
    I mean I thought the direction Team Red was trying to go in was emphasizing neutral. I'm just tired of misinformation being spread in this thread, from Bedman being "totally destroyed" to Ky somehow being top tier.

    Rev 2 didn't neuter everyone, or even the vast majority of the characters. Sol loses a 3f normal and suddenly the whole world is ending. Makes no sense to me.
    Xrd: Axl || UMvC3: Magneto/Dante/Frank West
    Give me attention: @ LaziestNameEver
    PSN: Laziest_ID_Ever (I don't really play online)
    "3) LIMITLESS (myself) --Those of you who have played me, will agree with this.. By far the most aggressive safe/style Wolverine." - Limitless, 3rd best Wolvie player in the world
  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,226
    I mean I thought the direction Team Red was trying to go in was emphasizing neutral. I'm just tired of misinformation being spread in this thread, from Bedman being "totally destroyed" to Ky somehow being top tier.

    Rev 2 didn't neuter everyone, or even the vast majority of the characters. Sol loses a 3f normal and suddenly the whole world is ending. Makes no sense to me.

    How are they "emphasizing neutral" when the game already has an incredibly solid neutral? For me personally one of the most intriguing things about Xrd neutral is how high stakes it is. To me what you said sounds like a yes-man euphemism for a lot of characters getting weaker. Also, Sol losing that 3f normal is a massive nerf.
    Opinions are like bedsheets: you only change them if it helps you get laid.
  • PsaroPsaro Joined: Posts: 55
    They're emphasizing neutral by toning down some of the game's "single player" elements. Millia not getting knockdown off any random hit, Zato's pressure extenders being less advantageous, Sin losing food-less j.K loops in the corner, Jack-O goons being easier to kill, Bedman not converting off as many things as he used to due to 2H/3H nerfs, Raven needing to work a little bit more for oki, etc. At least that's how I see it.
  • ValoonValoon Joined: Posts: 1,519
    edited March 18
    Sure, the game will be "fine" (though maybe it will lose some players), but a significant portion of the cast is going to be less interesting now (and weaker). If you want a change that really sums up this patch, then consider that, after 15 years, ASW randomly decided that Sol 5k should no longer be 3f

    Yeah there was a nerf to Johnny and Elphelt that made some sense but almost every other nerf still doesn't make much sense.

    I figured they were trying to push people to the A/A+ tier. Given they haven't been buffing the low tier very much I think they are trying to nerf the A tier a bit also to try and squeeze everyone in A+/B tier rather than S through C. Like nerfs to Sol & Leo don't make sense unless you consider the shit that got nerfed raped characters like Dizzy, Jam, and a few B- tier characters horribly. Most of the cast got around it fine though. It's kinda a bad balance philosophy imo. These low tier characters can't deal with it because their tool set is obviously lacking ... don't improve ... nerf because improving might require doing a new animation or two.

    Yeah the most frustrating part of all this is that Rev1 is in a really, really good spot balance-wise. They were just a few minor nerfs to some top-tiers and few buffs to low-tiers away from having an extremely balanced game. Instead, they just went ham and did a bunch of dumb shit, so who knows how the balance is going to shape up now (a smart bet would be that Ky is an easy top-tier though).

    Devs all do that for some weird reason. They probably feel like people will be mad at them if the patch note is not huge or some shit. Or they feel like they have to earn their salary.

    Valve has been patching Dota 2 for years (and with some good success on the balance imo) and then they revamped it completly recently for absolutly no reason. Nobody ever asked for this but they are like "here take this".

    Shit is crazy
    [SFV] Ken
    [USFIV] Ken
    [GG-XRD] Sol
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,916
    Pretty much what Psaro said. And yeah, Sol's 5K nerf is a big deal but the character isn't ruined lol.
    Xrd: Axl || UMvC3: Magneto/Dante/Frank West
    Give me attention: @ LaziestNameEver
    PSN: Laziest_ID_Ever (I don't really play online)
    "3) LIMITLESS (myself) --Those of you who have played me, will agree with this.. By far the most aggressive safe/style Wolverine." - Limitless, 3rd best Wolvie player in the world
  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,226
    Psaro wrote: »
    They're emphasizing neutral by toning down some of the game's "single player" elements. Millia not getting knockdown off any random hit, Zato's pressure extenders being less advantageous, Sin losing food-less j.K loops in the corner, Jack-O goons being easier to kill, Bedman not converting off as many things as he used to due to 2H/3H nerfs, Raven needing to work a little bit more for oki, etc. At least that's how I see it.

    I don't see how that's emphasizing neutral. That is making neutral less high stakes. It sounds to me like the exact same scenario going from SF4 to SF5: oki is too strong, too much vortex, etc. Clearly that turned out well....
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  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,916
    I mean this game isn't SF, it's Guilty Gear, so that SF comparison doesn't make much sense
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  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,226
    edited March 18
    I mean this game isn't SF, it's Guilty Gear, so that SF comparison doesn't make much sense

    It sounds like a similar scenario to me. Oki/vortex/setplay is deemed too strong, so in a knee-jerk reaction, the Devs make a bunch of weird changes and take away tools. The new version is deemed the "neutral-heavy" version in anticipation. Game hits and people realize it's just a game where you don't have a lot of tools to do much of anything, including play neutral.
    Opinions are like bedsheets: you only change them if it helps you get laid.
  • PsaroPsaro Joined: Posts: 55
    Psaro wrote: »
    They're emphasizing neutral by toning down some of the game's "single player" elements. Millia not getting knockdown off any random hit, Zato's pressure extenders being less advantageous, Sin losing food-less j.K loops in the corner, Jack-O goons being easier to kill, Bedman not converting off as many things as he used to due to 2H/3H nerfs, Raven needing to work a little bit more for oki, etc. At least that's how I see it.

    I don't see how that's emphasizing neutral. That is making neutral less high stakes. It sounds to me like the exact same scenario going from SF4 to SF5: oki is too strong, too much vortex, etc. Clearly that turned out well....

    How are these changes not emphasizing neutral? If Millia and Bedman aren't knocking you down off everything and Zato isn't making you block in the corner until your hair turns gray, you are playing more neutral, more often. I don't see what's paradoxical about this. Again, I'm not the biggest fan of some of the changes. My character is one of the characters who isn't looking forward to Rev2. That said, I don't think you can deny that if there are fewer ways to get to single player scenarios, then there is necessarily more direct player to player interaction. Maybe neutral is less high-stakes, but you'll be playing it more often. That's how it's being emphasized: there'll be more of it.

    For me, neutral is good if it's fleshed out; all characters have many options for many situations, which allows for deeply layered interplay between your options and their options, and a great deal of freedom when it comes to developing your style with a character and your own answers to situations. Guilty Gear's neutral is great because it's so nonlinear and open, imo. If you enjoy neutral because the idea of getting put in the blender if you fuck up gives you a thrill, then that's fine. That's your taste, and yeah, maybe this patch isn't doing what you want it to do (though realistically, plenty characters are still going to punish you plenty hard for mistakes). If you really need that sense of living on the edge with every move you make, then there's always Marvel 3.
  • ShahenzanShahenzan to burn beasts Joined: Posts: 176
    Any idea if they brought back letting all normals cancel into blitz?
    I know they had it on loketest 1, then took it out in loketest 2
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  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,226
    Psaro wrote: »
    Psaro wrote: »
    They're emphasizing neutral by toning down some of the game's "single player" elements. Millia not getting knockdown off any random hit, Zato's pressure extenders being less advantageous, Sin losing food-less j.K loops in the corner, Jack-O goons being easier to kill, Bedman not converting off as many things as he used to due to 2H/3H nerfs, Raven needing to work a little bit more for oki, etc. At least that's how I see it.

    I don't see how that's emphasizing neutral. That is making neutral less high stakes. It sounds to me like the exact same scenario going from SF4 to SF5: oki is too strong, too much vortex, etc. Clearly that turned out well....

    How are these changes not emphasizing neutral? If Millia and Bedman aren't knocking you down off everything and Zato isn't making you block in the corner until your hair turns gray, you are playing more neutral, more often. I don't see what's paradoxical about this. Again, I'm not the biggest fan of some of the changes. My character is one of the characters who isn't looking forward to Rev2. That said, I don't think you can deny that if there are fewer ways to get to single player scenarios, then there is necessarily more direct player to player interaction. Maybe neutral is less high-stakes, but you'll be playing it more often. That's how it's being emphasized: there'll be more of it.

    For me, neutral is good if it's fleshed out; all characters have many options for many situations, which allows for deeply layered interplay between your options and their options, and a great deal of freedom when it comes to developing your style with a character and your own answers to situations. Guilty Gear's neutral is great because it's so nonlinear and open, imo. If you enjoy neutral because the idea of getting put in the blender if you fuck up gives you a thrill, then that's fine. That's your taste, and yeah, maybe this patch isn't doing what you want it to do (though realistically, plenty characters are still going to punish you plenty hard for mistakes). If you really need that sense of living on the edge with every move you make, then there's always Marvel 3.
    That is literally the SF5 approach and it didn't end well at all. There should be some sort of reward for playing neutral, otherwise you end up feeling like you're playing it for no real reason. A lot of the true classic games, at least to me, had a neutral game where if you fucked up it usually meant death.

    Regarding the second part, I agree, having many options is a good thing, as is the freedom to develop your own playstyle. The problem is that a lot of characters lost options this time around. I'm going to use May as an example since she is the character I know best. Ruu did a write up on her a while back where he said that generally 4 types of May player exist: Oki, Optimum damage, neutral-based, and balanced. One of those options (oki) is taking a huge hit in Rev2 (with certain options no longer being possible), so doesn't that seem to go against your point about freedom of playstyle/character options?
    Opinions are like bedsheets: you only change them if it helps you get laid.
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