Guilty Gear Xrd -REVELATOR- one of life's gilty pleasures

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  • YannickYannick Max Range Panta Rhei Joined: Posts: 4,467
    YRC makes counters way too scary to use for me. DP all day, baby.
    The Sunset Studio // Destiny: Rise of Iron, Fighters, Development, Mechanics, Strategy, Media.
  • Angry AbelAngry Abel Joined: Posts: 385
    Any other poverty ps3 players having issues with online matches?
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,940
    edited September 2016
    I mean I don't get what buffing counters would accomplish and how you'd buff them.

    P counter is easy to land and I'm perfectly fine with not being able to combo off of it. A safe jump is good enough for me. K counter is slightly riskier and comes with more reward as a result. Both of their guard points start at frame 4 which is quite fast. They already do their jobs quite well.

    Like what's wrong with the neutral threats Axl already has? And I'm pretty sure better counters don't make his bad MUs any better.
    Muttonman wrote: »
    Quite frankly I'd rather they remove the DP and buff up the counters.
    What
    Xrd: Axl || UMvC3: Magneto/Dante/Frank West
    Give me attention: @ LaziestNameEver
    PSN: Laziest_ID_Ever (I don't really play online)
    "3) LIMITLESS (myself) --Those of you who have played me, will agree with this.. By far the most aggressive safe/style Wolverine." - Limitless, 3rd best Wolvie player in the world
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,855
    I mean I don't get what buffing counters would accomplish and how you'd buff them.

    P counter is easy to land and I'm perfectly fine with not being able to combo off of it. A safe jump is good enough for me. K counter is slightly riskier and comes with more reward as a result. Both of their guard points start at frame 4 which is quite fast. They already do their jobs quite well.

    Like what's wrong with the neutral threats Axl already has? And I'm pretty sure better counters don't make his bad MUs any better.
    Muttonman wrote: »
    Quite frankly I'd rather they remove the DP and buff up the counters.
    What

    It makes for far more interesting gameplay than a DP. I'd make them instant, give them PRC through it, and remove the DP.

    It would definitely make him worse but you could buff him elsewhere. It's just far more flavorful than just handing out DPs. Too many high level sets come down to "constantly bust out the DP because you get weak punishes on it" while counters are a lot more enjoyable to use.

    You of course then run into the issue of doubling up with Blitz Shield though. But I'm just not a huge fan of Axl having a DP, despite him being my main in Xrd. Back in +R he had all sorts of funky moves, a low profile special, a high profile special, an autoguard for half the startup special, and his counters. Combining the first three into an DP just feels lazy even if it is a massive buff.
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,940
    Muttonman wrote: »
    It makes for far more interesting gameplay than a DP.
    I mean I for one find it very interesting that I have an option to disrespect people's oki when I have the opportunity to.
    Too many high level sets come down to "constantly bust out the DP because you get weak punishes on it" while counters are a lot more enjoyable to use.
    I can't remember the last high level set where I watched a DP get whiffed/blocked and not punished fully. Hell, my own DPs that get whiffed/blocked are usually punished fully. Shit's -27 and has 35 frames of recovery. If people somehow can't punish that then it's not my problem.

    Honestly the idea that you'd want to remove a strong tool just to make Axl more "interesting" is such bullshit.
    Xrd: Axl || UMvC3: Magneto/Dante/Frank West
    Give me attention: @ LaziestNameEver
    PSN: Laziest_ID_Ever (I don't really play online)
    "3) LIMITLESS (myself) --Those of you who have played me, will agree with this.. By far the most aggressive safe/style Wolverine." - Limitless, 3rd best Wolvie player in the world
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,855
    Muttonman wrote: »
    It makes for far more interesting gameplay than a DP.
    I mean I for one find it very interesting that I have an option to disrespect people's oki when I have the opportunity to.
    Too many high level sets come down to "constantly bust out the DP because you get weak punishes on it" while counters are a lot more enjoyable to use.
    I can't remember the last high level set where I watched a DP get whiffed/blocked and not punished fully. Hell, my own DPs that get whiffed/blocked are usually punished fully. Shit's -27 and has 35 frames of recovery. If people somehow can't punish that then it's not my problem.

    Honestly the idea that you'd want to remove a strong tool just to make Axl more "interesting" is such bullshit.

    Removing tools because they're too centralizing is good game design. Make interesting gameplay, not powerful but boring gameplay.


    And you don't get the sort of great punishes against Axl DP you do against the rest everytime even after the nerf, especially if you FD it (which is super common as it covers plenty of blindspots against aerial approaches).
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,940
    edited September 2016
    I mean maybe people you play don't try to safe jump/bait your 9f startup DP. I'm just talking about situations when people do.

    I'm not even going to pretend I know anything about game design to say whether the decision to make Axl have a true DP "good" or "bad". Making his wakeup options more "complex"/weaker sounds dumb to me mainly because there's no real reason to want that at all unless you think Benten is unfairly strong. (It isn't.)
    Xrd: Axl || UMvC3: Magneto/Dante/Frank West
    Give me attention: @ LaziestNameEver
    PSN: Laziest_ID_Ever (I don't really play online)
    "3) LIMITLESS (myself) --Those of you who have played me, will agree with this.. By far the most aggressive safe/style Wolverine." - Limitless, 3rd best Wolvie player in the world
  • PVL_93_RUPVL_93_RU When's Dragon Ball? Joined: Posts: 10,639
    ArcSystem Works TGS 2016 schedule

    schedule01.gif
    SRK's Story Thread Crew:
    • bakfromon, Miðgarðsorm, & Lord Vega - Translations and Lore info
    • just5moreminutes - Story Mode v2.0
    • Doctrine Dark - Character Bios and Endings
    • Shockdingo - The paragraph writer
    • YagamiFire & Darc Requiem - The thread MVPs
    • Cestus - the Dolls endorser
    • The Shakunetsu - The character concept machine
    • Caio_Lins - The CFN profile cropper
    • Daemos - The thread dictator, also a Bison fanboy
    • DarthEnder - The bullshit caller

    Also starring (but not limited to):
    Mykka, Scotia, Hawkingbird, TrueBackLash, Chun-Li_Forever, Kecka, ruthless_nash, mikros, ...
  • grandabxgrandabx Flameater Joined: Posts: 661 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Anything potentially GG-related on the lists?
    I remember when people thought Bison doing the psycho crusher back and forth across the screen in SF:CE was cheap.
    GGXX: As long as I apply myself, I can win with anyone.
  • PVL_93_RUPVL_93_RU When's Dragon Ball? Joined: Posts: 10,639
    grandabx wrote: »
    Anything potentially GG-related on the lists?

    Sorry, forgot to post part 2

    schedule02.gif
    SRK's Story Thread Crew:
    • bakfromon, Miðgarðsorm, & Lord Vega - Translations and Lore info
    • just5moreminutes - Story Mode v2.0
    • Doctrine Dark - Character Bios and Endings
    • Shockdingo - The paragraph writer
    • YagamiFire & Darc Requiem - The thread MVPs
    • Cestus - the Dolls endorser
    • The Shakunetsu - The character concept machine
    • Caio_Lins - The CFN profile cropper
    • Daemos - The thread dictator, also a Bison fanboy
    • DarthEnder - The bullshit caller

    Also starring (but not limited to):
    Mykka, Scotia, Hawkingbird, TrueBackLash, Chun-Li_Forever, Kecka, ruthless_nash, mikros, ...
  • grandabxgrandabx Flameater Joined: Posts: 661 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Awesome.

    Now, check out the match:

    I remember when people thought Bison doing the psycho crusher back and forth across the screen in SF:CE was cheap.
    GGXX: As long as I apply myself, I can win with anyone.
  • grandabxgrandabx Flameater Joined: Posts: 661 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Does anyone know if you can play on Ky's Xrd Sign stage in Rev?
    I remember when people thought Bison doing the psycho crusher back and forth across the screen in SF:CE was cheap.
    GGXX: As long as I apply myself, I can win with anyone.
  • rayplayrayplay aka solidoutlaw Joined: Posts: 2,813
    Nope.
    PSN: rayplay
    Best widowmaker in North Korea.
    "He's gonna switch to wireless mid greed sever."
  • PsaroPsaro Joined: Posts: 76
    edited September 2016
    This game is supposed to be getting a substantial update this fall. The update's flagship feature is that panorama thing they seemingly brought out of left field, but it's always possible, if not likely, that they'll throw in some other features or QoL changes (being able to switch characters in training mode without going back to character select is really nice; it's in the arcade version and in the console demo of BBCF, so hopefully they'll introduce it to Rev too). Maybe the update would allow you to toggle between Sign/Rev stages as well.
    Post edited by Psaro on
  • FatalSeabassFatalSeabass Seabass is lethal! Joined: Posts: 1,067
    grandabx wrote: »
    Awesome.

    Now, check out the match:


    That was amazing Haehyun play.
  • Angry AbelAngry Abel Joined: Posts: 385
    Digital Figure Mode & Balance Patch dropping Sept 30th

  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,940
    Sounds like Dizzy will be receiving expanded combo routes along with minor changes to the rest of the cast.

    I like this decision.
    Xrd: Axl || UMvC3: Magneto/Dante/Frank West
    Give me attention: @ LaziestNameEver
    PSN: Laziest_ID_Ever (I don't really play online)
    "3) LIMITLESS (myself) --Those of you who have played me, will agree with this.. By far the most aggressive safe/style Wolverine." - Limitless, 3rd best Wolvie player in the world
  • PVL_93_RUPVL_93_RU When's Dragon Ball? Joined: Posts: 10,639
    Any ideas what might be the further balance changes?
    SRK's Story Thread Crew:
    • bakfromon, Miðgarðsorm, & Lord Vega - Translations and Lore info
    • just5moreminutes - Story Mode v2.0
    • Doctrine Dark - Character Bios and Endings
    • Shockdingo - The paragraph writer
    • YagamiFire & Darc Requiem - The thread MVPs
    • Cestus - the Dolls endorser
    • The Shakunetsu - The character concept machine
    • Caio_Lins - The CFN profile cropper
    • Daemos - The thread dictator, also a Bison fanboy
    • DarthEnder - The bullshit caller

    Also starring (but not limited to):
    Mykka, Scotia, Hawkingbird, TrueBackLash, Chun-Li_Forever, Kecka, ruthless_nash, mikros, ...
  • Angry AbelAngry Abel Joined: Posts: 385
    Apparently, Dizzy will be getting some buffs while the rest of the cast get minor tweaks.
  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,432
    I feel like all they need to do for Dizzy is bump fish up an attack level or two...I guess we'll see though
  • rayplayrayplay aka solidoutlaw Joined: Posts: 2,813
    #GiveJamAGun
    PSN: rayplay
    Best widowmaker in North Korea.
    "He's gonna switch to wireless mid greed sever."
  • grandabxgrandabx Flameater Joined: Posts: 661 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited September 2016
    I wish Jam's charged specials were moved to the D button so you still could use the regular versions and save the charged versions. Also, a successful parry would put her back to neutral.
    I remember when people thought Bison doing the psycho crusher back and forth across the screen in SF:CE was cheap.
    GGXX: As long as I apply myself, I can win with anyone.
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,940
    rayplay wrote: »
    #GiveJamAGun
    She's quite strong at the moment
    Xrd: Axl || UMvC3: Magneto/Dante/Frank West
    Give me attention: @ LaziestNameEver
    PSN: Laziest_ID_Ever (I don't really play online)
    "3) LIMITLESS (myself) --Those of you who have played me, will agree with this.. By far the most aggressive safe/style Wolverine." - Limitless, 3rd best Wolvie player in the world
  • Sephiroth73003Sephiroth73003 Joined: Posts: 4,287
    edited September 2016
    rayplay wrote: »
    #GiveJamAGun
    She's quite strong at the moment

    Johnny and Leo are really, really hard matchups. Like really super gay. She isn't bottom tier bad, but not super strong either. She is probably around dead middle in the cast with a good range of super good -> super awful spectrum of matchups.

    Jam just needs a couple tweaks to make her a bit more consistent in areas. Slight 6P buff (slightly buffed hitbox and slightly reduced hurtbox) and D executions of cards would be enough to make me happy. The best buffs for her would be nerfs to those 2 characters.

    SF3: Makoto and Ken
  • grandabxgrandabx Flameater Joined: Posts: 661 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    rayplay wrote: »
    #GiveJamAGun
    She's quite strong at the moment

    Johnny and Leo are really, really hard matchups. Like really super gay. She isn't bottom tier bad, but not super strong either. She is probably around dead middle in the cast with a good range of super good -> super awful spectrum of matchups.

    Jam just needs a couple tweaks to make her a bit more consistent in areas. Slight 6P buff (slightly buffed hitbox and slightly reduced hurtbox) and D executions of cards would be enough to make me happy. The best buffs for her would be nerfs to those 2 characters.

    If she were to get those buffs, nerfing those two wouldn't be needed. Especially for Leo. Leo needs better guard-points and more stance routes/mixup. After the last nerfing of Johnny practically no one uses Baccus Sigh anymore.

    Hopefully Potemkin gets some more options as well.
    I remember when people thought Bison doing the psycho crusher back and forth across the screen in SF:CE was cheap.
    GGXX: As long as I apply myself, I can win with anyone.
  • rayplayrayplay aka solidoutlaw Joined: Posts: 2,813
    rayplay wrote: »
    #GiveJamAGun
    She's quite strong at the moment

    In all seriousness, the buffs I'd give her are small ones:

    1. Make parry PK links easier. Currently, the juggle link is unnecessarily difficult. It requires the parry P to not hit on the first frame, but in order to properly set that up, you have to have your opponent high enough so that they can fall into parry P (so it'll hit late), but low enough to where they'll actually still be in hit stun. This wouldn't be too big of an issue if it weren't for the fact that the timing changes on basically every character. And I don't mean based on weights, I mean someone like Sol requires an arm and a leg to do it on him, while someone like Sin, whose in the same weight class, is much easier to do it on, but then someone like Ky is back to being hard to do it on. I've seen tons of players drop it, and myself personally, I don't even go for it anymore due to how inconsistent it is across the cast.

    2. Let her use carded specials with Dust. Jam sometimes has to avoid using certain specials in neutral when she has a card solely so that she can use it in a combo. This causes trouble if she wants to sit on the carded special for it's neutral purposes. For example, regular DP doesn't gain invincibility until the second frame, and it can be low profiled and it can trade with numerous things. Her carded DP, however, not only lacks those weaknesses by gaining a larger hitbox to avoid being low profiled and more invul to work as a good reversal, but it can also crossup, becoming one of her most ambiguous mixups in her arsenal. However, unless she's in the corner, many of her combos require her to use her DP in order to properly hit gekkirin (her ax kick special), which is her most common ender. Because of this, if she had a card DP, she can no longer use it as a mixup or reversal tool. Getting cards still takes a long time and the fact that doing a bnb can cause you to use that card when you only needed to use one card in said combo, is quite annoying and hinders her a lot.

    3. Allow her to reliably get a card after parry PP. To explain this one, Jam typically ends her combos with a carded special (usually Gekkirin) and then goes into one of three things: Parry PP, which is her meterless damage finisher, bao super, her metered damage finisher, or straight into a card, which trades damage for gaining a card back and more oki time. The problem I see is that Jam is meant to a be a fast, high damage character, but her highest meterless damage combo doesn't allow her to regain the resource required to do said damage, or at least not in the corner. If she does parry PP midscreen t hen charges a card, she can get it, but will gain no oki whatsoever. If she does it in the corner, she doesn't get the card at all because she will be close enough to be punished. She could RC, but at that point, you should've just done super for the extra damage. Basically, Jam's damage output is indirectly nerfed because she has to end combos short in order to regain her card to keep going for a hard knockdown. It's not an issue with super, since she's cashing in everything for big damage, essentially, but looking at other characters, they don't have to worry about choosing as often since most don't have a secondary resource like cards to manage. For example, if I do my corner bnb with I-No, and go for the higher damage followup, I get worse oki, but I still get oki. If Sin does his corner bnb into super, he can actually do it in a way where he still gets to eat food afterwards, so he doesn't have to choose, often. If I do my higher meterless damage followup with Jam in the corner, I get oki, but only if I opt to not get a card, and without a card, her mixup is worse, her neutral options are worse, she lacks etc.

    It may seem like a petty, unneeded thing, but I feel like if she could do parry PP and cancel the recovery into card charge on hit, it'd remedy the situation for her since she wouldn't have combo enders that remove oki options, and instead it'd just be "do you want to get a bunch of damage but not regain your card, or do you want to just do your regular stuff and use the meter on other things?




    Personally, out of those three, the first one is the only one that I feel is something that needs to be changed, since it's pretty stupid that she loses a lot of damage simply because someone's hurtbox was weird. Yes, character specific combos exist, but this is on a level of it's own.
    PSN: rayplay
    Best widowmaker in North Korea.
    "He's gonna switch to wireless mid greed sever."
  • Sephiroth73003Sephiroth73003 Joined: Posts: 4,287
    @rayplay

    Yeah those are easily her biggest issues. Honestly, if they just gave 2 out of 3 of those I'd be happy.

    The 46PK and 46PP i would consider 'big buffs' though. You are directly increasing her dmg potential by A LOT with those changes. She can shit massive dmg from most touches if she can hit 46PK reliably.

    Personally I don't think 46PP card cancel and D execution of cards would be too much. 46PK would be a pretty darn massive buff and she does have some starters like s puffball CH where it can be done 100% reliably if you know the variation on that character.

    She just needs a couple more changes to make cards less of a hindrance or a slight buff to neutral so she can do something at least vs Johnny and Leo. A 6P buff so she can actually beat their normals with a well placed 6P would do A LOT for those matchups. Older GG's 6P was a good counter poke against the more problematic standing normals ... now it is just super inconsistent for that purpose.
    SF3: Makoto and Ken
  • Master_ChibiMaster_Chibi .: Dynamites! :. Joined: Posts: 15,063 mod
    I'd like a change to Jack-O that results in NOT making me feel like a complete douche bag because I put a house down.
    ~*Hai! Back to Japan!
  • rayplayrayplay aka solidoutlaw Joined: Posts: 2,813
    Oh right, I'd make Jam's 6P better. The invul goes away before it goes active, so her 6P tends to trade often.

    PSN: rayplay
    Best widowmaker in North Korea.
    "He's gonna switch to wireless mid greed sever."
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,940
    I'd like a change to Jack-O that results in NOT making me feel like a complete douche bag because I put a house down.
    Just embrace your inner douchebag

    That's what I did when I picked up Axl
    Xrd: Axl || UMvC3: Magneto/Dante/Frank West
    Give me attention: @ LaziestNameEver
    PSN: Laziest_ID_Ever (I don't really play online)
    "3) LIMITLESS (myself) --Those of you who have played me, will agree with this.. By far the most aggressive safe/style Wolverine." - Limitless, 3rd best Wolvie player in the world
  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,857
    The way I see Revelator is this: EVERYBODY has enough silly stuff to make you feel like a douchebag for playing them. So your own bullshit countering it, is really just making things fair.
  • grandabxgrandabx Flameater Joined: Posts: 661 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'd like a change to Jack-O that results in NOT making me feel like a complete douche bag because I put a house down.

    ? What do you mean?
    I remember when people thought Bison doing the psycho crusher back and forth across the screen in SF:CE was cheap.
    GGXX: As long as I apply myself, I can win with anyone.
  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,432
    edited September 2016
    rayplay wrote: »
    rayplay wrote: »
    #GiveJamAGun
    She's quite strong at the moment

    In all seriousness, the buffs I'd give her are small ones:

    1. Make parry PK links easier. Currently, the juggle link is unnecessarily difficult. It requires the parry P to not hit on the first frame, but in order to properly set that up, you have to have your opponent high enough so that they can fall into parry P (so it'll hit late), but low enough to where they'll actually still be in hit stun. This wouldn't be too big of an issue if it weren't for the fact that the timing changes on basically every character. And I don't mean based on weights, I mean someone like Sol requires an arm and a leg to do it on him, while someone like Sin, whose in the same weight class, is much easier to do it on, but then someone like Ky is back to being hard to do it on. I've seen tons of players drop it, and myself personally, I don't even go for it anymore due to how inconsistent it is across the cast.


    It may seem like a petty, unneeded thing, but I feel like if she could do parry PP and cancel the recovery into card charge on hit, it'd remedy the situation for her since she wouldn't have combo enders that remove oki options, and instead it'd just be "do you want to get a bunch of damage but not regain your card, or do you want to just do your regular stuff and use the meter on other things?




    Personally, out of those three, the first one is the only one that I feel is something that needs to be changed, since it's pretty stupid that she loses a lot of damage simply because someone's hurtbox was weird. Yes, character specific combos exist, but this is on a level of it's own.

    I have some issues with this. First I should say that I think Jam is in a good place atm, she's pretty strong. Regarding the PK stuff and it's difficulty , I don't really think it's enough to change something just because it's "unnecessarily difficult", especially something that would be such a huge buff. I-No has something similar with her 2S HCL enders. The timing and route of the combo varies from character to character, and on some characters (the Valentines), it is nearly impossible to do. It also happens to be her most optimized route and gives amazing oki, so if you can get it consistently, more power to you, but I don't think it'd be right to simplify it ans give her something that good just to make things less difficult; I feel the same should be said with Jam. Also, her (Jam) 6P doesn't lose UBI when it goes active, that was a myth
    Post edited by drunkards_walk on
  • Sephiroth73003Sephiroth73003 Joined: Posts: 4,287
    edited September 2016
    rayplay wrote: »
    rayplay wrote: »
    #GiveJamAGun
    She's quite strong at the moment

    In all seriousness, the buffs I'd give her are small ones:

    1. Make parry PK links easier. Currently, the juggle link is unnecessarily difficult. It requires the parry P to not hit on the first frame, but in order to properly set that up, you have to have your opponent high enough so that they can fall into parry P (so it'll hit late), but low enough to where they'll actually still be in hit stun. This wouldn't be too big of an issue if it weren't for the fact that the timing changes on basically every character. And I don't mean based on weights, I mean someone like Sol requires an arm and a leg to do it on him, while someone like Sin, whose in the same weight class, is much easier to do it on, but then someone like Ky is back to being hard to do it on. I've seen tons of players drop it, and myself personally, I don't even go for it anymore due to how inconsistent it is across the cast.


    It may seem like a petty, unneeded thing, but I feel like if she could do parry PP and cancel the recovery into card charge on hit, it'd remedy the situation for her since she wouldn't have combo enders that remove oki options, and instead it'd just be "do you want to get a bunch of damage but not regain your card, or do you want to just do your regular stuff and use the meter on other things?




    Personally, out of those three, the first one is the only one that I feel is something that needs to be changed, since it's pretty stupid that she loses a lot of damage simply because someone's hurtbox was weird. Yes, character specific combos exist, but this is on a level of it's own.

    I have some issues with this. First I should say that I think Jam is in a good place atm, she's pretty strong. Regarding the PK stuff and it's difficulty , I don't really think it's enough to change something just because it's "unnecessarily difficult", especially something that would be such a huge buff. I-No has something similar with her 2S HCL enders. The timing and route of the combo varies from character to character, and on some characters (the Valentines), it is nearly impossible to do. It also happens to be her most optimized route and gives amazing oki, so if you can get it consistently, more power to you, but I don't think it'd be right to simplify it ans give her something that good just to make things less difficult; I feel the same should be said with Jam. Also, her (Jam) 6P doesn't lose UBI when it goes active, that was a myth

    This is it
    http://boxdox-bb.dantarion.com/#/viewer/gg_revelator_103/JAM/NmlAtk6A/38

    The problem is her 6P doesn't have a lot of height so has a narrow window to hit the 6P successfully, she has a little smaller hurtbox in her midsection throughout her 6P that makes some angles of attacks impossible to anti-air because it narrows the gap between her 6P hitting and the jump attack hitting the hurtbox even more, and her 6P only has 3f active with a good hurtbox.

    Essentially make it something like 5-6 active frames, small increase of the hitbox upward, small reduction on the big hurtbox, and get rid of that stupid small hurtbox there. That still wouldn't be as good as Johnny's, Sin's, or like 4 other characters.

    That and D cancel cards I think would be fair.

    SF3: Makoto and Ken
  • rayplayrayplay aka solidoutlaw Joined: Posts: 2,813
    rayplay wrote: »
    rayplay wrote: »
    #GiveJamAGun
    She's quite strong at the moment

    In all seriousness, the buffs I'd give her are small ones:

    1. Make parry PK links easier. Currently, the juggle link is unnecessarily difficult. It requires the parry P to not hit on the first frame, but in order to properly set that up, you have to have your opponent high enough so that they can fall into parry P (so it'll hit late), but low enough to where they'll actually still be in hit stun. This wouldn't be too big of an issue if it weren't for the fact that the timing changes on basically every character. And I don't mean based on weights, I mean someone like Sol requires an arm and a leg to do it on him, while someone like Sin, whose in the same weight class, is much easier to do it on, but then someone like Ky is back to being hard to do it on. I've seen tons of players drop it, and myself personally, I don't even go for it anymore due to how inconsistent it is across the cast.


    It may seem like a petty, unneeded thing, but I feel like if she could do parry PP and cancel the recovery into card charge on hit, it'd remedy the situation for her since she wouldn't have combo enders that remove oki options, and instead it'd just be "do you want to get a bunch of damage but not regain your card, or do you want to just do your regular stuff and use the meter on other things?




    Personally, out of those three, the first one is the only one that I feel is something that needs to be changed, since it's pretty stupid that she loses a lot of damage simply because someone's hurtbox was weird. Yes, character specific combos exist, but this is on a level of it's own.

    I have some issues with this. First I should say that I think Jam is in a good place atm, she's pretty strong. Regarding the PK stuff and it's difficulty , I don't really think it's enough to change something just because it's "unnecessarily difficult", especially something that would be such a huge buff. I-No has something similar with her 2S HCL enders. The timing and route of the combo varies from character to character, and on some characters (the Valentines), it is nearly impossible to do. It also happens to be her most optimized route and gives amazing oki, so if you can get it consistently, more power to you, but I don't think it'd be right to simplify it ans give her something that good just to make things less difficult; I feel the same should be said with Jam. Also, her (Jam) 6P doesn't lose UBI when it goes active, that was a myth
    I wouldn't compare 2S xx HCL to parry PK, because for starters, that's still easier to do, and secondly, she still has routes that net very similar damage and still grant oki. Having formerly mained (and still sub) I-No, I can adjust combo routes and timings fairly easily across the cast, and even on characters like Ram, I can still get some stuff to work. Parry PK is far harder because it's not a matter of "if they're heavier, then do this earlier" or "on shorter characters, do this late". Not only that, but the way the characters work, if I-No drops a combo, she often can turn it into a reset. If Jam drop's parry PK, she has to RC or she'll get fucked.

    Let me try to put it this way: Off a throw RC, there are about four or five separate leadups she can do to into parry PK that'll boost the chances of it landing. These are all character specific on which will work and they all will scale the combo to the point where doing a non parry PK combo will get you essentially the same if not more damage. And these aren't slight adjustments either, this is stuff like "do these four normals into parry PK on sol, but if you're up against slayer, you'll have to do these three instead and it includes reverse gatlings and..."

    What I'm saying is, there's character specific, and then there's parry pk. I can't see a reason to not make a change to where it'd become more consistent across the cast. I can do dash cancel treasure hunt with Johnny more consistently and I don't even use that guy. Jam is pretty good right now, yes. But it's not like this is a buff that'd make her too strong, because it's literally just making a combo she can already do, easier to perform.

    Also, regarding 6P, even if the invul doesn't end there, it still trades a ton if even that.
    PSN: rayplay
    Best widowmaker in North Korea.
    "He's gonna switch to wireless mid greed sever."
  • Evolution169Evolution169 Wake up DP is unbeatable Joined: Posts: 1,061
    Revelator is 60% off on PSN right now, PS3 and PS4.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,393
    edited September 2016


    Arc Revolution European Qualifier streaming now.
    (they're speaking French though, boo =( )
  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,432
    I don't agree, imo it would be a massive buff to her because you are taking an already strong character with good (great?) damage potential and giving her a way to consistently get amazing damage. She just doesn't need it
  • rayplayrayplay aka solidoutlaw Joined: Posts: 2,813
    I don't agree, imo it would be a massive buff to her because you are taking an already strong character with good (great?) damage potential and giving her a way to consistently get amazing damage. She just doesn't need it

    Except it's something she can already do. It'd only "increase" her damage output in that you won't see people drop it most of the time anymore. It's not going to improve her neutral, it's not going to double her damage output, it's just going to make this one combo more consistent. If you were truly scared of it, you'd be asking for it to be removed altogether, but you're not, so that must mean you're fine with the route and the reward she gets from it. This route isn't even something she can go into off every hit, the realistic most you'll see it is off throw RC or gekkirin (and obviously actual parry). So do you understand how that makes your stance sound? You acknowledge the reward she gets off it, and you're fine with that, but you don't want her to be able to do it? That doesn't make any sense. You can't be for something, and against it at the same time.
    PSN: rayplay
    Best widowmaker in North Korea.
    "He's gonna switch to wireless mid greed sever."
  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,432
    Making that combo more consistent would make her much more of a threat, I don't see how you can argue against that; you said yourself you don't even go for it anymore, so it's pretty obvious that it would make her damage potential a lot better. It's just not something she needs, she got a shit load of buffs last patch and is in a good spot right now
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